EGM Postpones Review of MGS4 Because Konami Imposed "Limitations"

[quote name='-Never4ever-']Well to be fair, it was a long fucking time. And for what? Like 3 milliseconds faster than the 360 version? For the amount of space & time the installation took up, I should never see another load screen or pause in action in the game.



So it's a hard-on for Konami that's fueling your current fan-boy rant? You've proven long ago that you're opinion is very biased, and, as a result, not worth a shit.[/QUOTE]

look ass didnt you read where i said this has nothing to do with ps3; im trying to give some credit to good devs thats it. good devs who put out good games shouldn't have their games trashed by the media. after the masterpiece mgs3 snake eater i dont need a review to 1. justify the puchase and 2. spoil the game by giving negative opinions about the game
 
[quote name='Thomas96']look ass didnt you read where i said this has nothing to do with ps3; im trying to give some credit to good devs thats it. good devs who put out good games shouldn't have their games trashed by the media. after the masterpiece mgs3 snake eater i dont need a review to 1. justify the puchase and 2. spoil the game by giving negative opinions about the game[/QUOTE]

That's cool, you dug MGS3 and you don't need a review. A shame you're not everyone.
 
Just add him to your ignore N4E. Thats what I did since his opinion is useless, and it's made my life a hell of a lot better since adding him to teh ignore. I mean now that I don't have to read any of the posts he spews, my IQ doesn't suffer in the process! :lol:
 
[quote name='whoknows']Better go
pre-order it
[/QUOTE]

I'm getting the
special edition boxed set
 
[quote name='Apossum']I'm getting the
special edition boxed set
[/quote]


Oh, you mean:
This one?
mgs4st9.png
I kid I kid.
 
[quote name='Dark Slayer120']Just add him to your ignore N4E. Thats what I did since his opinion is useless, and it's made my life a hell of a lot better since adding him to teh ignore. I mean now that I don't have to read any of the posts he spews, my IQ doesn't suffer in the process! :lol:[/QUOTE]

Funny thing is, he was on my ignore a while ago, I took everyone off cause I figured ignore lists are stupid.

Eh, I rather just read his tirades and just not respond.
 
So wait a minute......Everyone is pissed that the end scene is 90 minutes? I think it's great that after a awesome game, you get treated to a free MGS movie that ties up all the loose ends. As long as they aren't in the middle of the game, long cutscenes to start or finish the game are OK in my book.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']http://kotaku.com/5013432/kojima-productions-responds-to-mgs4-nda-complaints

Ryan Payton has responded to the controversy. It's an 8-minute up front install, with 2-3 minute mini-installs down the line. If I'm reading this correctly (might be wrong), something happens during those 2-3 minute installs, as he said he doesn't want reviewers to talk about what happens during those installs.[/QUOTE]
Wow. Talk about blowing stuff out of proportion. Good job EGM.
 
"The game requires an eight minute install, as well as a number of two to three-minute installs between acts."

2-3 minute installs between acts, blimey, seems like this game is a bit install happy.

Sounds like something happens during the installs though, I can see why Konami don't want to ruin the surprise.
 
Thinking about it, after supporting EGM's decision I should also applaud Konami for trying to keep some stuff about the game secret.

I'm sure a lot of people will appreciate cool things in the game not being spoiled.
 
Is it possible that the installs that takes place during the game is plot specific?

That'd be interesting, not exactly sure how that would work out though. :whistle2:k
 
[quote name='Apossum']day 1
when it comes out for the 360.
[/QUOTE]

this was a good game one of my favorites. it was 20 when i bought it
 
[quote name='-Never4ever-']That's cool, you dug MGS3 and you don't need a review. A shame you're not everyone.[/QUOTE]

I'm definitely not everyone, thats why I only speak for myself. waiting to read reviews an then acting based on review scores, will cause people to miss out on games that they probably would have enjoyed.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']http://kotaku.com/5013432/kojima-productions-responds-to-mgs4-nda-complaints

Ryan Payton has responded to the controversy. It's an 8-minute up front install, with 2-3 minute mini-installs down the line. If I'm reading this correctly (might be wrong), something happens during those 2-3 minute installs, as he said he doesn't want reviewers to talk about what happens during those installs.[/QUOTE]

Apparently, not really a spoiler but I'll treat it as such anyways,
it's the briefing for the next act in Otacon's plane. You can walk around and talk to the characters and other stuff.
Also, fuck EGM. Seems like they did this for just sheer publicity, considering that the restrictions mentioned would in no way affect my decision to purchase. A few 3-minute, interactive installs? OH NOOOOOO
 
the thing is... even if the game has a lot of cut scenes, there's definitely going to be enough action to follow up.
 
I've been playing some of the Metal Gears over recently in preparation for IV, and the long cut scenes and text is something that is painfully obvious. I assume that most of the people that are gonna buy the game on day one are gonna be people who already have played one of the previous MGS, and can bear with this like they have before. It's really nothing new, so it's weird to see that Konami is trying to hide such a thing.
 
[quote name='crazytalkx']
Also, fuck EGM. Seems like they did this for just sheer publicity, considering that the restrictions mentioned would in no way affect my decision to purchase. A few 3-minute, interactive installs? OH NOOOOOO[/QUOTE]


But it could affect the decision for people on the fence. People that aren't huge fans of the series etc.

A good review should layout all the pros and cons of a game so people can look for their own personal likes/dislikes/pet peeves etc. But of course, the catch here is EGM's reviews (as much as I like them) are so short they rarely do that anyway. But to be fair, for big games they'll give them 2-6 page reviews rather than 1, so big games like this they do a better job of hitting all the pros and cons.
 
Konami put a lot of pressure on Sony to make sure that this game brings them back some revenue. Plus, Konami wants to earn as much money as they can for the game, just like everyone else, but being a ps3 exclusive its not guaranteed to sell as much as it would have, should this game have been multiplatform. The limitations may not be to hide anything that's downright negative or something horrendous to stop people from buying the game, but Konami has a lot vested in this game, and they don't want to take any chances. I hope they didn't pull that MGS2 stunt and have you going through the game with Raiden. halfway through.
 
[quote name='crazytalkx']Also, fuck EGM. Seems like they did this for just sheer publicity, considering that the restrictions mentioned would in no way affect my decision to purchase. A few 3-minute, interactive installs? OH NOOOOOO[/quote]
EGM did nothing that could be called a publicity stunt, as all they did was post one little sentence before their MGS4 roundtable discussion. Kotaku and the rest of the blogosphere made it out to be some huge thing like they were being oppressed and given unreasonable demands by Konami.

[quote name='Rei no Otaku']Wow. Talk about blowing stuff out of proportion. Good job EGM.[/quote]
I'm almost certain now that the reason their review's not coming until next month is plot/spoiler reasons, which makes sense. EGM didn't blow anything out of proportion, Kotaku and MTV's Multiplayer Blog did.
 
I could care less if half the game is cutscenes, that's a huge part of why MGS is so great. The gameplay is good too, but it wouldn't be as great without the cutscenes. And vice versa.

Basically each aspect compliments each other, so it's nothing to worry about. JRPGs are an example of this. According to Eurogamer, the transition to each field will be seamless, and that makes me happy.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']EGM didn't blow anything out of proportion, Kotaku and MTV's Multiplayer Blog did.[/quote]
EGM left it open to (negative) interpretation, and they never offered a clarification of what they meant, instead soaking in the publicity.

fuck EGM.
 
[quote name='B:L']EGM left it open to (negative) interpretation, and they never offered a clarification of what they meant, instead soaking in the publicity.

fuck EGM.[/QUOTE]

What?

They said they would review it next month with no limitations.
 
[quote name='-Never4ever-']Seems to me everyone's just blowing this out of proportion (myself included) with people rushing to assault / defend their side.[/quote]Which looks foolish when the game isn't even out yet and we've yet to see what the specifics actually are.
 
I just don't see what EGM did wrong.

1. They had to say something since they'd said in the previous issue they'd have an MGS4 review in this issue.

2. They decided not to do a full review as they have a policy of only reviewing completed games where they can review the game completely how they see fit with no major changes to the final versions or limitations on what features they can mention.

3. Thus they put a blurb saying they weren't going to do a full review until next issue as Konami had put some limitations on what they could mention--and I'd assume they didnt' mention what the type of things they couldn't talk about were to not piss off Konami.

I mean if they said it was HD installs and cutscene length then everyone's going to infer that it takes a lot of space and has too many cut scenes and Konami is wanting to hide that.

By not saying what they are, they don't give any hints to whatever information Konami wanted to keep secret. But unfortunately, this is the internet age and everything is over-analyzed by geeks around the world, so it all got blown out of proportion anyway. But that's not really EGMs fault IMO.
 
Yeah, but how often do you come across spoilers in official pre-release reviews?

Spoilers tend to come on forums, blogs etc. from people who get the game early, not the magazine, major websites etc. They don't want to piss off, and lose, readers by spoiling games.
 
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8766157&publicUserId=5379721
Jeremy Parish wrote about the NDA situation in his blog today:
Hey kids! It's June 11, and that means that the non-disclosure agreement I had to sign when I reviewed Metal Gear Solid 4 has now expired. So let's talk about that.

Or rather, let's not. I'm sick of this topic already... and I haven't even talked about it. There's been an awful lot of noise on the subject because of the MGS4 review embargoes story by Stephen Totilo. On one hand, I can't complain about the fresh discussion regarding review integrity this has sparked; on the other, the signal-to-noise ratio about the MGS4 embargo as it relates to EGM's most recent issue is distressingly low. Our MGS4 review goes up tomorrow, and I would rather any discussion of the review to focus on the merits of the game or on the article rather than being drowned out by babble about the circumstances surrounding its print companion. Thus, we nip that babble in the bud today.

In case you've somehow missed it -- not likely, if you've been anywhere near the Internet's gaming venues over the past few weeks -- EGM's most recent issue doesn't include a review of MGS4. Instead, a five-page roundtable on the game concludes the magazine's review section, prefaced by a disclaimer about how we chose not to review the game because we weren't satisfied by some of Konami's terms. Unfortunately, this has led to a few widespread misunderstandings which, thanks to the NDA, we couldn't really debunk until now. Two weeks is a long time in the Internet's echo chamber...plenty of time for people to assume this situation confirms their personal biases. Please allow me to burst a few bubbles with some factual statements:
  1. We aren't boycotting the game. EGM will be reviewing MGS4 in the next issue.
  2. Konami is not a bunch of evil Nazi monsters.
  3. EGM wasn't grandstanding to draw attention to itself.
Disappointed yet? Sorry! Here's the reality of the situation. Andrew, Matt, and I went down to LA to review the game early in May. EGM had been working with Konami for a few weeks to get the game into the current issue, and they were even nice enough to allow us to come in a day earlier than the rest of the press to accommodate our looming deadline. We had three days to review the game and, coincidentally, three days before our issue had to ship. Not the best timing, but for a game this big you suck it up and deal with the distress. Konami's reps mentioned a few times that we'd need to sign a non-disclosure agreement before we left -- no big deal, as NDAs are standard when it comes to large releases, and it's not like we're in the habit of spoiling games for people anyway.

891.jpg


Unfortunately, the NDA was supposed to have been ready day one, which would have been fine. Our practice when presented with NDAs is to run them by the legal department first. But they didn't give us our NDAs on the first day. Or the second. Instead, they presented them to us at the literal last moment -- I was watching the game's closing credits scroll past -- and made it clear that we wouldn't be leaving until we signed them. This was a problem, as we had a plane to catch and a magazine to ship within the next few hours, which didn't leave time for running things by legal. So, despite some misgivings, we signed. We didn't really leave us a choice.

Afterwards, we contacted 1UP HQ and realized the problems that we'd signed ourselves into. For instance, there was a general disagreement on the embargo date, which apparently wasn't quite what had been settled on in advance. Or something -- I leave the review haggling to people with a higher tolerance for irritation, so I'm a little fuzzy on the details. Rather, we review grunts began to feel heartburn about some of the specifics of the contract. We were OK with not spilling info on the licensed products, because what respectable reviewer is going to let the presence of an iPod or an obscure Japanese swimsuit model affect their review score? (Never mind that Kojima himself spilled the beans on every single one of these items a few days later at a press conference anyway.) The bit about not mentioning install times wasn't really a big deal, because nitpicking minor technical necessities isn't our style. And the request not to spoil plot specifics was completely unneeded, because, well, we're not assholes.

What we weren't so happy with was the restriction on discussing the length of the game's cutscenes. The wording of the line item was nebulous: Did it mean the total time of all cutscenes? The specific length of individual sequences? Or simply the general proportion of cutscene to action? Far from being a minor technicality, this is an issue that cuts right to the heart of the biggest criticisms against the Metal Gear series. By preventing us from addressing this aspect of the game, Konami was tying our hands. Regardless of embargo dates, being hampered from talking about something that for many gamers is a make-or-break issue was an unacceptable compromise.

892.jpg


The obvious solution would have been to simply drop the MGS4 review for the issue and wait until the next. Unfortunately, there was that "hard deadline" concern that print publications have to deal with. We had all of a few hours to fill the five pages allocated to the review. Five pages of text to be written and copy-edited and laid out and proofed and corrected? Yeah, not happening. There was also the matter of the issue's polybag (the foil wrapper that protects the magazine on newsstands), which we have to print up a week or two in advance of the magazine deadline. It promised "the final word on MGS4," meaning we were obligated to have something in the issue.

Had we more time, had the polybag not already been printed, we would have filled those five pages with something totally different and simply shrugged off the entire thing. But the timing bit us in the ass, and we had to settle for a review roundtable as Milky got on the phone and worked out a new arrangement with Konami. Our initial roundtable discussed too much of the game for their liking, though, so we had to slap together a second roundtable while the plane back was boarding. That the issue somehow made it to press on time is a testament to the entire team's ability to drop everything and make things work in the worst circumstances...but our imperfect solution to a big problem has led to an awful lot of noise and speculation and downright falsehood being spread around.

Anyway, that's the not-at-all-sordid reality of the situation. There's definitely been some frustration on our end (and likely on Konami's, once the Internet started to leap to conclusions), but we're all grown-ups and have learned a lesson or two, sitcom-style. And none of this affects our feelings about MGS4 itself. (We like it, in case you were wondering.) So, let's all put this behind us and get on with discussing the game for its actual merits or failings, shall we?

893.jpg
 
So the initial rumors were completely true.
The only new and important information really is that they would have dropped the coverage completely from the magazine had they not already teased it on their cover bag. Oh, and that they didn't have time to read the NDA and just signed it.

The fact that Konami imposed limitations on the review still holds true.
 
The rumors were true last week when Ryan Payton himself listed what was in the NDA for Kotaku.

Nobody contested EGM getting an NDA, as it was all there in the magazine. It just seems like it was all a giant clusterfuck of EGM getting seriously close to their deadlines and having to rush almost everything that had to do with this review and Konami.
 
[quote name='Maklershed']He's a joke account Frisky. Don't worry about it. You'll see him post a lot of nonsensical things in the Off Topic Forum soon.[/quote]

What the crap?
 
He wasn't talking about you. It was a post after yours by "pepco" that's since been deleted.

He was spamming the forum with all kinds of nonsense earlier today.
 
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