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Maybe they aren't advertising this because they haven't worked out the details. Would look even worse if they decided to pull the "Family Plan" due to pressure from developers and publishers.

This might be a great feature for MS but I'd have to imagine those who make the games wouldn't be thrilled about it.

Edit: And it would look bad if they were advertising it this way and then later dropped group size to say "5" and you were only allowed to join one group every one year or maybe had to pay to leave a group and join another.

 
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it's possible. anything's possible.

but it wouldn't make sense. every person with an Xbox Live Gold account should determine his own family. I could see other restrictions being possible but not whether you are allowed to join a group. the leader of the group would set his own family. every person sets their own family. how would that even make sense? if no one is allowed to set his family, how could anybody join anybody?

Edit: And it would look bad if they were advertising it this way and then later dropped group size to say "5" and you were only allowed to join one group every one year or maybe had to pay to leave a group and join another.
 
Maybe they aren't advertising this because they haven't worked out the details. Would look even worse if they decided to pull the "Family Plan" due to pressure from developers and publishers.
This might be a great feature for MS but I'd have to imagine those who make the games wouldn't be thrilled about it.

Edit: And it would look bad if they were advertising it this way and then later dropped group size to say "5" and you were only allowed to join one group every one year or maybe had to pay to leave a group and join another.
Yeh the devs may be mad, but if M$ truly implements a DRM with much more money going to devs because of less used game sales then I could possibly see the give and take.

I do agree though that M$ is definitely moving forward and trying to adapt a new gaming style. Now can they make it work this gen is the question.
 
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even if you view it this way, it' would still be of great benefit. because the example listed is very restrictive and applies in a 3 person scenario and it doesn't account for each of the family members adding each of that group to their own family list. i.e., person 1 adds person 2 to person 1's list. and person 2 adds person 1 to person 2's list.

let's play out your restrictive scenario:

bob creates his family list and includes person 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9.

person 1 creates his family list and includes bob and persons 2-9.

person 2 creates his family list and includes bob, person 1, and persons 3-9.

bob owns forza, ryse, halo, titanfall. person 1 owns bf4, destiny, kingdom hearts 3. person 2 owns kinect sports, crimson dragon, watchdogs.

now, remember, each person is on each person's family list (no chaining to infinitum). this is still following that restrictive condition you placed (and we don't know if that restriction is in place).

bob can play bf4 because person 1's family list includes bob. if according to your restriction, no on else on person 1's family list can play any of person 1's games, fine. person 1 can play titanfall because bob has person 1 on bob's family list. person 3 cannot play person 1's library because bob is playing BF4. person 3 cannot play bob's library because person 2 is playing titanfall. however, person 3 can play any game of person 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 (assuming that each of those people added person 3 to his family list).

and of course, the primary owner of the title can play his own games. but even if the primary owner cannot (which would be the weirdest thing), the plan is still of benefit.

now then, the only problem becomes if all 10 gamers want to play games at the same time of day. because you can quickly lock up all the libraries. but that's only if this is actually one of the restrictions. and only if all 10 players play at the same time.

Sans the cussing this is how I view it.

Only one person out of the 10 "family" can play a game from your shared library at one time. After one person starts a game then I believe the others will be locked out of being able to play, but will be able to view the games (and most likely also be able to contact whomever is accessing the library to play a game).
 
Oh I wasn't saying how they had it was a bad thing. I really like them doing this. And I think they are hitting a sweet middle ground if its how I think it will play out. Not too generous but not too restrictive.

The only time shared libraries will be a problem is if only one or two people have a game that 4 or 5 people want to play. If they game during normal hours then some would probably get a little annoyed at others. It might start a bicker match of "you're always on tying up Bob's list" etc.
 
Great, so Microsoft is going to cater to dumbshits who constantly break/lose their games and want to play CoD no matter what at the cost of destroying the entire culture of game collecting and your first sale rights.  TOTALLY WORTH IT

 
That chart is wrong. Xbox support said that you can have multiple games being played by different people from one persons list. Aka you can have 6 games being played by 6 people off of one persons library 

 
That chart is wrong. Xbox support said that you can have multiple games being played by different people from one persons list. Aka you can have 6 games being played by 6 people off of one persons library
Could you please link the tweet? Assuming its from Xbox Support Twitter.

Thanks :)

 
Phil Spencer is talking...

http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/xbox-one-allows-you-to-share-games-with-ten-family-members-but-some-details

Xbox One allows you to share games with ten “family” members, but some details remain murky

I brought up the family sharing feature of the Xbox One during my recent conversation with Microsoft's Phil Spencer, and I stated that it's one of the nicer aspects of the console that not many people are talking about.

“You’re going to help us with that?” he asked. I'd love to, but trying to pin down exactly how the system will work has proved tricky.

Multiple people, but at the same time?

The idea is that ten people in your family group can all share your games. Think of it like a loaning system, but you're not loaning anyone a phyiscal product. If you're in my family group, you can play my games, and vice versa.

“I think the policy makes sense,” Spencer said. “It’s not ten different people all playing the game concurrently, but when you think about a real usage scenario, and we thought about it around a family, and I know certain people will create a family group of people that aren’t all part of the same family, and I do think that’s an advantage, and people will use that. I saw it on NeoGAF instantly, the Xbox Family creation threads, where people said 'Hey be a part of my family.'”

“No birth certificates will need to be sent in!” Spencer said when I asked if the service required a blood test. “I do think that’s an advantage of the ecosystem that we have.”

So that answers one question: Microsoft doesn't seem to care whether or not the ten people in the group are actually family members. They can be friends, roommates, boyfriends, girlfriends, your dog's groomer… you pick ten people, and you share games with them.

The question is how many people can play the game at the same time. Spencer told me he believed that two people can play one copy of a game concurrently, but he urged me to check Microsoft's official wording on the matter to be sure.

official wording on Xbox One licensing page:

"Just like today, a family member can play your copy of Forza Motorsport at a friend’s house. Only now, they will see not just Forza, but all of your shared games.  You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time."

Still, the ability to pool your games with up to ten “family members” is a geniune advantage of the Xbox One ecosystem. Even if only one person can be playing the game at a time, you gain access to every game the people on your family list own, allowing you to jump into new releases the second they get done with the game.

On the other hand, I'd hate to think that I need to call a friend or family member to tell them to stop playing a game I just bought so I can play my title. Many of these usage cases and limitations may not be explained clearly until the system is released and we can test these services for ourselves, but we'll keep digging to try to figure this one out.

 
I really don't get why people are so excited about this.  If you're doing this with your close friends, aren't you going to want to play together?

The only way this really works is if everyone doesn't mind waiting their turn to play the game, so I really only see this working well with primarily single player games.

 
you're on cheapassgamer. anything to save some money is a good thing. now we're going to throw away a good deal? and if Phil Spencer says it's 1+1, you can still have some multiplayer.

but of course, they're probably counting on people wanting to get their own copy for that multiplayer aspect. any system where I could buy 3 games but have access to 50 games sounds like a win.

I really don't get why people are so excited about this. If you're doing this with your close friends, aren't you going to want to play together?

The only way this really works is if everyone doesn't mind waiting their turn to play the game, so I really only see this working well with primarily single player games.
 
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you're on cheapassgamer. anything to save some money is a good thing. now we're going to throw away a good deal? and if Phil Spencer says it's 1+1, you can still have some multiplayer.

but of course, they're probably counting on people wanting to get their own copy for that multiplayer aspect. any system where I could buy 3 games but have access to 50 games sounds like a win.
You'll save money in the short term but will be fucked in the long term. Gaming as a service only lasts as long as the service provider wants it to. It's not a deal if there are so many strings attached and you have zero ability to sell the games on your own terms.

 
I really don't get why people are so excited about this. If you're doing this with your close friends, aren't you going to want to play together?

The only way this really works is if everyone doesn't mind waiting their turn to play the game, so I really only see this working well with primarily single player games.
I'm a huge RPG fan. Besides a FPS that I get together and play with friends its usually single player games.

I talked most of my friends into playing Skyrim as I thought it was amazing. If instead I could have loaned the game out then it would have saved them $30+ each. And yes I know I could have mailed the game or drove to them, but each live over an hour away and I am anal about my games being well kept so mailing wouldn't be a good option. This new system I could loan out my AC3 to my brother in law that loves historical fiction with little effort. Or lend out RDR to my Navy buddy in California as he has never played it. Or conversely I could borrow my navy buddies games as he has TONS of them.

Yes in the long run it could be worse off as I trade in games quite frequently (especially on free rental or money making games). But, personally, I think this system will be better for me as I can offset my cost of games in other ways (coordinating game purchases or leaching off a few buddies that purchase $100+ in games a month).
 
That chart is wrong. Xbox support said that you can have multiple games being played by different people from one persons list. Aka you can have 6 games being played by 6 people off of one persons library
Could you please link the tweet? Assuming its from Xbox Support Twitter.

Thanks :)
Yea I posted the screenshot in this post

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/topic/310343-family-plan-detailed/?p=10623880

Last tweet
Appears you need to register to view that link, or I did.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28116237/Twitter%20Family%20Share.png

There is a dropbox link that shouldnt require registering.

 
That chart is wrong. Xbox support said that you can have multiple games being played by different people from one persons list. Aka you can have 6 games being played by 6 people off of one persons library
Could you please link the tweet? Assuming its from Xbox Support Twitter.

Thanks :)
Yea I posted the screenshot in this post

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/topic/310343-family-plan-detailed/?p=10623880

Last tweet
Appears you need to register to view that link, or I did.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28116237/Twitter%20Family%20Share.png

There is a dropbox link that shouldnt require registering.
Oh sorry and thanks for doing that. I grabbed it from a windows phone forum. Didn't think it would be blocked

 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lMhjM9BK7M

got a transcript for the video:

Q:  after the Xbox One servers are shut down at the end of the new generation, will Xbox One games still be playable?

MN:  I’ll just say this.  We haven't even started this generation so it's kind of early to talk about the end of the generation.  It’s certainly something that we would not do.  That's not the way the system is designed.  It’s designed for flexibility.  But let’s get the system out there first.

Q:  if someone is banned, whether their fault or not, will they lose access to the games they purchased?

MN:  absolutely not.  You will always have access to the games you purchase.  Absolutely not.

Q:  I like to buy physical copies of games such as collector’s editions with physical bonuses and such.  Why is it that someone with a physical disc of a game inserted into the console cannot play that game offline for longer than 24 hours?  Why could that not work as a failsafe for if the online connection drops for 24 hours.  Just a simple “please insert the disc to continue playing” message.

MN:  that’s an interesting question and it’s pretty complex so I’ll answer it this way.  The way we designed the Xbox One architecture is for flexibility.  And one of the areas that we can do that is, for instance, our family sharing.  If you and I are a family, and the crew is our family.  You can check a game out of “our” game library and use it.  So this ability that we've got of seeing what you’ve got in your library… that's as a result of being always connected so we think the upside of being connected and I think that you talked about the disc checking and so forth… it’s really about the library and having access to your games anywhere you are.  Things you really can't do today and all of us having access to our games anywhere you are.  That's certainly one approach.  But we decided to take a little bit of a different approach because we think it’s going to be more flexible for the future, and that's really what Xbox One is all about.  It's about… we’re kind of looking toward the future and see this is where the gaming industry is going and we want gamers to come with us on this journey which is going to unlock this amazing potential of these great gaming experiences as well as flexibility like I just described with the library so it's one approach.  We decided to take an approach which we think is going to be infinitely more flexible.

Q:  what is the additional value brought by the once-every-24-hour-connection?  What do I as a consumer get out of that?

MN:  well, I think I just kind of went over that, right?  If you’re going to give me a game, the system is automatically going to know, “oh, here’s the game.”  It’s automatically going to just appear in my library.  I don't really have to do anything.  As well as having access to the most up-to-date library when my dad or my mom buys game.  It’s automatically in there… so it's really like I said earlier, it’s really about keeping the library up-to-date and knowing what’s going on, right?

Q:  will you change anything about the Xbox One after seeing the Sony conference?  If so, what?

MN:  I don't really think… we’re not going to change anything.  I mean, we’re very happy what we’ve done with Xbox One.  We’re very happy… did you see the games on stage at our briefing?  Did you see the exclusives?  I mean we’re really, really proud of the system and the games that are coming out.  When you look at games like Titanfall.  Have you gone through Titanfall yet?  Enough said.  Conversation over.  We’re really happy with what we showed on stage as well as what we’re showing here at the booth so I think it's safe to say that we’re confident where we’re going.  We’re also confident that gamers are going to love our vision of the future and what we’re going to offer for gaming.

Q:  what is your target audience for the Xbox One?  Many of your features cannot be accessed or are stripped down for markets outside of the US.  Why should someone who can’t use your features buy the Xbox One?   

MN:  I’m a little puzzled by that question.  The console’s built for the future and the majority of the world… most of the world is now connected so I'm not quite sure what features they’re not going to get.  If they’re talking about things like Netflix and things like that, well that’s certainly a content provider conversation.  That is not an Xbox problem.  That is an industry problem.  I would love to have Sky TV, but I can't because I live in the US so I think the conversation’s really around content and so that's…  I guess that’s really what mean, but I’m not quite sure.  

Q:  can you please clarify how the HDMI input is going to be used?  Is it going to allow input from a set-top cable box or other HDMI devices such as Windows PC as well?  Will the current Xbox 360 be able to input into the Xbox One to allow the UI of the One to be overlaid on current gen Xbox 360 games?

MN:  so the answer is, “Yes.”  First of all, it’s the only console right now that has HDMI in.  And it’s going to absolutely allow you to plug in, for example, your cable set-top box and what that allows you to do… I want to make sure people understand this because it’s heavy.  Is that when you plug it in, you’re going to be watching TV through your cable provider, through your satellite provider and then instantly you’re going to get that game invite to play Ryse.  Boom.  It switches like this. It’s like instant.  So that’s one thing.  And if you’re done with Ryse, you can go back to watching television.  We also have this concept of overlaying a guide.  So there’s a guide that can happen that we produce on the Xbox side that would kind of put over the existing guide so you can go up and down and manage it that way.   Now we’re not a DVR.  We have a game DVR but we’re not a true DVR in that sense.  That’s going to be handled by your set-top box.  We’re just allowing people to still watch TV… the types of TV that they have and then get back to their game experience and still stay connected to Live.  How would you like to be watching your favorite TV show that’s not available anywhere else, but still get friend invites, right?  And still stay connected.  Or maybe even use our Snap mode and watch TV over here on the left while you're playing a single player game over here on the right.  So think about that.  And the other question, you can certainly plug an Xbox 360 in the back of that.  That was one of my first questions when I heard about the feature so there’s a lot of things we can do with that.  Again it opens up great opportunities to have this great gaming experience but still stay connected.

Q:  what is one question that you have not been asked at E3 this year that you wished you’d been asked about the Xbox One?

MN:  that is an excellent question.  I’ve been asked so many.  I’ve been on the show floor for the past three days.  Probably it’d be one about… you know, probably we’d talk a little bit about the family package.  And people really haven't gotten their heads around what that means.  We talked about that earlier on… it’s about, wait a minute.  I’m waiting for someone to ask me and you kind of already asked so… I don’t know how to answer that question because you already asked me that question.  I was thinking about that coming up here.  About our family proposition and things like that so probably that.

Q:  do you want to talk a little bit more about the family proposition?

MN:  it’s awesome.  It’s awesome.  It really is awesome and we’re really excited about what we’re doing with Xbox One.

 
you're on cheapassgamer. anything to save some money is a good thing. now we're going to throw away a good deal? and if Phil Spencer says it's 1+1, you can still have some multiplayer.

but of course, they're probably counting on people wanting to get their own copy for that multiplayer aspect. any system where I could buy 3 games but have access to 50 games sounds like a win.
You'll save money in the short term but will be fucked in the long term. Gaming as a service only lasts as long as the service provider wants it to. It's not a deal if there are so many strings attached and you have zero ability to sell the games on your own terms.
This. Remember, Sony used to allow game sharing on 5 consoles, then cut it down to 2.

What's stopping MS from changing the rules of the family plan down the road, if they decide it's hurting them?

 
The more I think about it, the more I know this isn't going to be nearly as good as it seems.

The company that incorporated all this DRM into their console is okay with 10 people buying 1 game?  How is that even close to being better than having used games?  Furthermore, I assume that if you can use the game, you can use the DLC so they're not even going to be making revenue that they would with used sales.

This probably won't hurt the major titles since people won't want to wait to play them (ie: Halo, Gears of War, etc.) but this is definitely going to hurt the more niche titles, making them even more niche.  If even two people in a "family" was willing to buy the game, they would have got two sales, but under this system, it will only be one.

I believe if it was really as good as it seems, they'd be talking about it like crazy, but there's no way the same company that will only let you trade your physical copy once is fine with having ten people represent one sale.  That makes absolutely no sense, especially when most profits are made through game sales.

 
That chart is wrong. Xbox support said that you can have multiple games being played by different people from one persons list. Aka you can have 6 games being played by 6 people off of one persons library
Could you please link the tweet? Assuming its from Xbox Support Twitter.

Thanks :)
Yea I posted the screenshot in this post

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/topic/310343-family-plan-detailed/?p=10623880

Last tweet
Appears you need to register to view that link, or I did.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28116237/Twitter%20Family%20Share.png

There is a dropbox link that shouldnt require registering.
We already know we can share with 10 people, so being able to play them on different consoles is obvious. Doesn't matter if it's 6 different people and having the ability to play them on 6 different consoles. Get back to me when they actually answer the below questions.

  • How many people can play the "same" game at the "same" time?
  • How many people can access your library at the "same" time?
  • Any restrictions to how many times you can access the "same" game?
  • Is the shared game a fully featured game, or with some features removed?
  • Any time limit on the shared game per playing session?
  • What is the difference between loaning your game to a friend after 30 days vs family(any) share?
  • Is there a daily/monthly/yearly limit to how many times I can share my games?
  • Any region restrictions(city, state, country) to who I can share a specific game with?
 
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That chart is wrong. Xbox support said that you can have multiple games being played by different people from one persons list. Aka you can have 6 games being played by 6 people off of one persons library
Could you please link the tweet? Assuming its from Xbox Support Twitter.

Thanks :)
Yea I posted the screenshot in this post

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/topic/310343-family-plan-detailed/?p=10623880

Last tweet
Appears you need to register to view that link, or I did.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28116237/Twitter%20Family%20Share.png

There is a dropbox link that shouldnt require registering.
We already know we can share with 10 people, so being able to play them on different consoles is obvious. Doesn't matter if it's 6 different people and having the ability to play them on 6 different consoles. Get back to me when they actually answer the below questions.

  • How many people can play the "same" game at the "same" time?
  • How many people can access your library at the "same" time?
  • Any restrictions to how many times you can access the "same" game?
  • Is the shared game a fully featured game, or with some features removed?
  • Any time limit on the shared game per playing session?
  • What is the difference between loaning your game to a friend after 30 days vs family(any) share?
  • Is there a daily/monthly/yearly limit to how many times I can share my games?
  • Any region restrictions(city, state, country) to who I can share a specific game with?
- I believe they have said 2 concurrent sessions per game.

- Based off the twitter, it should be at least 6 at the same time.

- I believe they said there will be a one hour check in requirement when playing a shared library to make sure the license is still owned. It might just apply to using your gamertag on another Xbox and requiring your primary system online during those checks.

- The loaning after 30 days isn't a loan. it is a gift. They can't give it back either. The lending part they are working on and have no details which goes along with rentals.

- No region except country since it could be your kids at college.

 
We already know we can share with 10 people, so being able to play them on different consoles is obvious. Doesn't matter if it's 6 different people and having the ability to play them on 6 different consoles. Get back to me when they actually answer the below questions.

  • How many people can play the "same" game at the "same" time?
  • How many people can access your library at the "same" time?
  • Any restrictions to how many times you can access the "same" game?
  • Is the shared game a fully featured game, or with some features removed?
  • Any time limit on the shared game per playing session?
  • What is the difference between loaning your game to a friend after 30 days vs family(any) share?
  • Is there a daily/monthly/yearly limit to how many times I can share my games?
  • Any region restrictions(city, state, country) to who I can share a specific game with?
- I believe they have said 2 concurrent sessions per game.

- Based off the twitter, it should be at least 6 at the same time.

- I believe they said there will be a one hour check in requirement when playing a shared library to make sure the license is still owned. It might just apply to using your gamertag on another Xbox and requiring your primary system online during those checks.

- The loaning after 30 days isn't a loan. it is a gift. They can't give it back either. The lending part they are working on and have no details which goes along with rentals.

- No region except country since it could be your kids at college.
  • Source? Not that I don't trust you, it would help clearify this information for everyone.
  • "Yep! You can have 6 different consoles, with 6 different games being played by 6 different family members!" <---- That twitter message does not mention anything about having access at the "same" time. It's just referencing that you can "share" your library on 6 different consoles with 6 different games. We already know you can do it on up to 10.
  • The one hour check-in is only if you want to access your game's library at a friend's console.
  • Okay, so that is answered on the loaning.
  • Source?
 
regardless of how it's set up, it's better than the current system which is I give you my 360 disc to play a game.  I can't play that game at all while you're borrowing my disc.  I give you my PS3 or PS4 disc, I can't play while you're playing.  so it's hypocritical to bring up this "how many people can play it at the same time????" garbage.

latest interview with Major Nelson (from Angry Joe) was asked how the sharing plan works.  he says it's akin to a real life library.  a family member checks out a game and while he's checking it out, other family members cannot play that game. 

so it's not locking up the entire library like some have said as a possible restriction that they could implement.  combine this great fact with other family members' game libraries, you still have a lot of games to play from. 

no matter how restrictive it turns out to be, if I have access to more games than I paid for, then that's a win. 

now, he didn't clear up the question of the primary owner always having access to his game, thus making it 1+1 which Phil Spencer said is how he says 2 people can play it and which the licensing page suggests as well.  he did say that if it's splitscreen, it's for sure to work but that's already a given because they're on the same console at that point and the sharing plan is out of the equation.
 

Q:  so the Xbox friends list.  It was going to be 1000 friends.  Now it’s going to be unlimited friends?  Is that correct?
MN:  essentially unlimited, yeah.  When you say “unlimited” in the minds of developers, that kind of makes them panic but essentially it is unlimited.  The reality is most modern social networks have quite a few… I think Facebook is like three or five thousand or whatever it is.

Q:  it’s actually 4000.  I have fans that filled it up.  But you can do a like page so you can do more.  It’s “unlimited” on Xbox Live.  

MN:  we’re saying “virtually unlimited“ because obviously you can’t add a million new people.  Something that’s manageable.  

Q:  [question about family plan]

MN:  you have to think of it as a library.  Kind of like exactly how it works today.  If you buy it, I can actually check it out and play it or you can play it.  Think of it as one person at a time just like it is today.  

Q:  you can’t play it like simultaneously off one copy?

MN:  If you’re playing splitscreen, you can.  It’s not like you’re buying one copy for all 10 members.

Q:  … the problem is after 8 years all the Xbox Original’s games were shut down.  You know, you can’t play them online.  So what I’m a little concerned, is that going to happen to the Xbox One after a certain amount of time or the Xbox 360 after 8 years if we’re going all digital?

MN:  obviously that’s something that we’re going to work out.  We’re not going to just shut things off.  This generation hasn’t even begun so we’re already looking to shutting it down?  C’mon.

Q:  and you guys also said you guys are going to allow gifting or rather trading so can you explain that?

MN:  yeah, right now, what we’ve announced is the ability to… when I’m done with the game… and you and I are not in the same family plan, I can give you the game.  That’s it.  You don’t even have to be in the same house or in the same town or even in the same state.  

Q:  that happens once, right?

MN:  yeah.

Q:  so what happens with that new owner?  Can he go and resell that game at a retailer?

MN:  not to my knowledge.  No.

Q:  so the Xbox One is region-locked and you guys aren’t releasing in Poland but you guys are promoting Witcher 3 which is a huge title but you’re not promoting it in Poland.  So if it’s region-locked, one of your main titles isn’t even available on the Xbox One, right?

MN:  I obviously haven’t even looked… I’ll have to take a look at that specific question.

Q:  they did say that you leave it up to the publishers.  Let’s use for example the Witcher 3.  CD Projekt RED who’s not really into DRM, right?  Can they choose for example to say, “We don’t want any DRM on our games.  You can do used games.  You can give games to your friends unlimited.  Not just once”.  Or will you impose the restriction of only lending that game once?

MN:  we want to do what developers and publishers want to do and if that’s something they’re interested in doing, then we’ll certainly work with them to make sure they get success.

Q:  okay, that’s wonderful.  That’s a step in the right direction.

 
regardless of how it's set up, it's better than the current system which is I give you my 360 disc to play a game. I can't play that game at all while you're borrowing my disc. I give you my PS3 or PS4 disc, I can't play while you're playing. so it's hypocritical to bring up this "how many people can play it at the same time????" garbage.

latest interview with Major Nelson (from Angry Joe) was asked how the sharing plan works. he says it's akin to a real life library. a family member checks out a game and while he's checking it out, other family members cannot play that game.

so it's not locking up the entire library like some have said as a possible restriction that they could implement. combine this great fact with other family members' game libraries, you still have a lot of games to play from.

no matter how restrictive it turns out to be, if I have access to more games than I paid for, then that's a win.

now, he didn't clear up the question of the primary owner always having access to his game, thus making it 1+1 which Phil Spencer said is how he says 2 people can play it and which the licensing page suggests as well. he did say that if it's splitscreen, it's for sure to work but that's already a given because they're on the same console at that point and the sharing plan is out of the equation.

Q: [question about family plan]

MN: you have to think of it as a library. Kind of like exactly how it works today. If you buy it, I can actually check it out and play it or you can play it. Think of it as one person at a time just like it is today.

Q: you can’t play it like simultaneously off one copy?

MN: If you’re playing splitscreen, you can. It’s not like you’re buying one copy for all 10 members.
I don't see how I'm hypocritical, when I'm just asking for facts. So from the FAQ with Major Nelson... We have to think of this as one person at a time like it is today. So I'm not sure where this whole 2 people can play the "same game" at the "same time" is coming from. You can only play one copy at the same time if it has splitscreen though.

  • How many people can play the "same" game at the "same" time? Think of it as one person at a time just like it is today.
  • How many people can access your library at the "same" time? 10
  • Any restrictions to how many times you can access the "same" game?
  • Is the shared game a fully featured game, or with some features removed?
  • Any time limit on the shared game per playing session?
  • What is the difference between loaning your game to a friend after 30 days vs family(any) share? You can gift not loan a game to someone not in your family share only. This can only be done once.
  • Is there a daily/monthly/yearly limit to how many times I can share my games?
  • Any region restrictions(city, state, country) to who I can share a specific game with? None for city or state. Not sure if you can share with someone outside of the country.
 
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regardless of how it's set up, it's better than the current system which is I give you my 360 disc to play a game. I can't play that game at all while you're borrowing my disc. I give you my PS3 or PS4 disc, I can't play while you're playing. so it's hypocritical to bring up this "how many people can play it at the same time????" garbage.

latest interview with Major Nelson (from Angry Joe) was asked how the sharing plan works. he says it's akin to a real life library. a family member checks out a game and while he's checking it out, other family members cannot play that game.

so it's not locking up the entire library like some have said as a possible restriction that they could implement. combine this great fact with other family members' game libraries, you still have a lot of games to play from.

no matter how restrictive it turns out to be, if I have access to more games than I paid for, then that's a win.

now, he didn't clear up the question of the primary owner always having access to his game, thus making it 1+1 which Phil Spencer said is how he says 2 people can play it and which the licensing page suggests as well. he did say that if it's splitscreen, it's for sure to work but that's already a given because they're on the same console at that point and the sharing plan is out of the equation.

Q: [question about family plan]

MN: you have to think of it as a library. Kind of like exactly how it works today. If you buy it, I can actually check it out and play it or you can play it. Think of it as one person at a time just like it is today.

Q: you can’t play it like simultaneously off one copy?

MN: If you’re playing splitscreen, you can. It’s not like you’re buying one copy for all 10 members.
I don't see how I'm hypocritical, when I'm just asking for facts. So from the FAQ with Major Nelson... We have to think of this as one person at a time like it is today. So I'm not sure where this whole 2 people can play the "same game" at the "same time" is coming from. You can only play one copy at the same time if it has splitscreen though.

  • How many people can play the "same" game at the "same" time? Think of it as one person at a time just like it is today.
  • How many people can access your library at the "same" time? 10
  • Any restrictions to how many times you can access the "same" game? Doesn't appear to be.
  • Is the shared game a fully featured game, or with some features removed?
  • Any time limit on the shared game per playing session?
  • What is the difference between loaning your game to a friend after 30 days vs family(any) share? You can gift not loan a game to someone not in your family share only. This can only be done once.
  • Is there a daily/monthly/yearly limit to how many times I can share my games?
  • Any region restrictions(city, state, country) to who I can share a specific game with? None for city or state. Not sure if you can share with someone outside of the country.
http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license

Give your family access to your entire games library anytime, anywhere: Xbox One will enable new forms of access for families. Up to ten members of your family can log in and play from your shared games library on any Xbox One. Just like today, a family member can play your copy of Forza Motorsport at a friend’s house. Only now, they will see not just Forza, but all of your shared games. You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time.

 
http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license

Give your family access to your entire games library anytime, anywhere: Xbox One will enable new forms of access for families. Up to ten members of your family can log in and play from your shared games library on any Xbox One. Just like today, a family member can play your copy of Forza Motorsport at a friend’s house. Only now, they will see not just Forza, but all of your shared games. You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time.
  • How many people can play the "same" game at the "same" time? Think of it as one person at a time just like it is today. You can only play the "same" game at the "same" time if it has splitscreen support.
  • How many people can access your library at the "same" time? 10
  • Any restrictions to how many times you can access the "same" game?
  • Is the shared game a fully featured game, or with some features removed?
  • Any time limit on the shared game per playing session?
  • What is the difference between loaning your game to a friend after 30 days vs family(any) share? You can gift not loan a game to someone not in your family share only. This can only be done once.
  • Is there a daily/monthly/yearly limit to how many times I can share my games? No restrictions, you can share anywhere, anytime.
  • Any region restrictions(city, state, country) to who I can share a specific game with? No restrictions, you can share anywhere, anytime.
Okay I corrected the last answer and updated the rest. The ones in blank have not been specifically addressed or if it has someone can provide me a source.

 
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The first question should have changed.

You + One other person can play the same game, at the same time. You (as the library owner) always has access to your games. Your family has access to a floating copy that (as far as we know) one other player can be playing.

The part's I bolded in my link from the xbox website clearly says you + 1. 

This sentence specifically: You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time.

 
The first question should have changed.

You + One other person can play the same game, at the same time. You (as the library owner) always has access to your games. Your family has access to a floating copy that (as far as we know) one other player can be playing.

The part's I bolded in my link from the xbox website clearly says you + 1.

This sentence specifically: You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RtSGFryKwo

At the 4:00 mark, Major Nelson said you can't play it simultaneously unless it offers splitscreen. Interview was done June 15. Your source is June 6, which is even before E3. Things might have changed, unless Major Nelson doesn't know what he is talking about...

 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RtSGFryKwo

At the 4:00 mark, Major Nelson said you can't play it simultaneously unless it offers splitscreen. Interview was done June 15. Your source is June 6, which is even before E3. Things might have changed, unless Major Nelson doesn't know what he is talking about...
That's actually the only interview I've seen where he says one at a time. He is (apparently) getting a blog post up once he gets the details on what the family plan is, its limitations, etc since according to his twitter he dosent know right now.

 
htz, that "official" looking FAQ you created is not official.  it's something you made based on your interpretation.

all we have at this point is what's been said and that's the only thing that should be quoted.  everything else is interpretation.  and of course, written text is usually preferable because for someone to type up that licensing page, they had to consult and write it out.  in an interview, you can get all twisted up if you're not an executive with policy-making ability who knows all the nuances of the policy.  And as great as Major Nelson is as a liason, he's not involved in policy making.

I would lend more credibility to Major Nelson than support staff for example.  But I wouldn't put him above policy makers.

 
htz, that "official" looking FAQ you created is not official. it's something you made based on your interpretation.

all we have at this point is what's been said and that's the only thing that should be quoted. everything else is interpretation. and of course, written text is usually preferable because for someone to type up that licensing page, they had to consult and write it out. in an interview, you can get all twisted up if you're not an executive with policy-making ability who knows all the nuances of the policy. And as great as Major Nelson is as a liason, he's not involved in policy making.

I would lend more credibility to Major Nelson than support staff for example. But I wouldn't put him above policy makers.
I got those answers off of your quote. Which you sourced yourself to the angry joe video. Now your saying it is based off my interpretation?

 
htz, that "official" looking FAQ you created is not official. it's something you made based on your interpretation.

all we have at this point is what's been said and that's the only thing that should be quoted. everything else is interpretation. and of course, written text is usually preferable because for someone to type up that licensing page, they had to consult and write it out. in an interview, you can get all twisted up if you're not an executive with policy-making ability who knows all the nuances of the policy. And as great as Major Nelson is as a liason, he's not involved in policy making.

I would lend more credibility to Major Nelson than support staff for example. But I wouldn't put him above policy makers.
I got those answers off of your quote. Which you sourced yourself to the angry joe video. Now your saying it is based off my interpretation?

I would trust HTZ over either of these MS apologists. If people really think it's going to work like some of these posters want it to work in their imagination they are going to be in for some major disappointment.

 
I don't see them allowing 2 people (the owner of the game and a member of the family) to play the game at the same time.  For knowledgeable groups of friends that play FPSs, lets say a group of 8, 4 could purchase the game while the other 4 play with the library copy.  Too much lost revenue; the definition is worded poorly by MS.  If it is true that the owner and a member of the family can play I will take it back but it just doesn't seem likely.

 
htz, that "official" looking FAQ you created is not official. it's something you made based on your interpretation.

all we have at this point is what's been said and that's the only thing that should be quoted. everything else is interpretation. and of course, written text is usually preferable because for someone to type up that licensing page, they had to consult and write it out. in an interview, you can get all twisted up if you're not an executive with policy-making ability who knows all the nuances of the policy. And as great as Major Nelson is as a liason, he's not involved in policy making.

I would lend more credibility to Major Nelson than support staff for example. But I wouldn't put him above policy makers.
I got those answers off of your quote. Which you sourced yourself to the angry joe video. Now your saying it is based off my interpretation?
no, like I said previously, you based it on Major Nelson's answer to an impromptu interview which may or may not be correct and not necessarily incorrect but misleading. if you are being interviewed for any situation (job interview, school admissions interview, etc.), it's very easy to make mistakes (especially when you have a strong personality like Angry Joe) and because people like us are parsing every nuance of an answer, that magnifies any answer. I remember getting twisted up one of my med school interviews and it was something I beat myself up when the interview was over.

since Major Nelson's answer contradicts Phil Spencer's answer that means neither is completely reliable.

I've posted every article/video I could find of real Microsoft sources talking about the sharing plan. that's far more than a lot of people throwing out FUD.

 
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htz, that "official" looking FAQ you created is not official. it's something you made based on your interpretation.

all we have at this point is what's been said and that's the only thing that should be quoted. everything else is interpretation. and of course, written text is usually preferable because for someone to type up that licensing page, they had to consult and write it out. in an interview, you can get all twisted up if you're not an executive with policy-making ability who knows all the nuances of the policy. And as great as Major Nelson is as a liason, he's not involved in policy making.

I would lend more credibility to Major Nelson than support staff for example. But I wouldn't put him above policy makers.
I got those answers off of your quote. Which you sourced yourself to the angry joe video. Now your saying it is based off my interpretation?
no, like I said previously, you based it on Major Nelson's answer to an impromptu interview which may or may not be correct and not necessarily incorrect but misleading. if you are being interviewed for any situation (job interview, school admissions interview, etc.), it's very easy to make mistakes (especially when you have a strong personality like Angry Joe) and because people like us are parsing every nuance of an answer, that magnifies any answer. I remember getting twisted up one of my med school interviews and it was something I beat myself up when the interview was over.

since Major Nelson's answer contradicts Phil Spencer's answer that means neither is completely reliable.

I've posted every article/video I could find of real Microsoft sources talking about the sharing plan. that's far more than a lot of people throwing out FUD.
Dude you used the same source to answer my questions. Obviously you had no problems with it when you were calling me hypocritical and writing that long FAQ. http://www.cheapassgamer.com/topic/310343-family-plan-detailed/page-3#entry10733202

The question is how many people can play the game at the same time. Spencer told me he believed that two people can play one copy of a game concurrently, but he urged me to check Microsoft's official wording on the matter to be sure.

http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/xbox-one-allows-you-to-share-games-with-ten-family-members-but-some-details
^So he isn't even sure himself.

“The only limitation, it seems, is that only one person can be playing the shared copy of a single game at any given time,” Ars Technica reported after speaking with Microsoft Xbox Chief Marketing and Strategy Officer Yusuf Mehdi. “All in all, this does sound like a pretty convenient feature that's more workable than simply passing discs around amongst friends who are actually in your area.”
^This same quote is even in the OP posted by Ashane during an interview with Yusuf Mehdi.

So who is the one throwing up FUD?

 
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[quote name="Ashane" post="10837284" timestamp="1371448244"]
http://slumz.boxden.com/f13/xbox-one-family-share-plan-clarification-1939418/

Completely unconfirmed...

Honestly not sure why I'm posting it but saw it today so :X[/quote]
I love that Major Nelson. He never really answers anything. Just repeats himself over and over.

I don't see how a 24hr disconnect makes it flexible, and the family share takes money out of devs pockets. I could buy a Xbox One and NEVER pay for a game.

MS would make out like a bandit because people would do that. I can see it now $100 for lifetime family access.
 
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more details!

http://kotaku.com/the-xbox-one-believers-513819282

Phil Spencer [Microsoft Games Studios VP] and I discuss the Xbox One's new family sharing option, which lets 10 members of a "family" share access to games. This seems to be the best thing of all the uncustomary new parameters that have been established for this new Xbox. In a family group, the head of household can always play any game; and one other member of the family, no matter where they are, can play too.

Kotaku: Can we be in the same family?

Spencer: Yeah.

Kotaku: What would be the limitation on that?

Spencer: [After encouraging me to check Microsoft's published document on this] I do think that sharing in a family group is an important part of the positives in our ecosystem today...You don't have to send in your birth certificate. You define what a family unit is and the people who connect to you and how that library works.
 

 
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more details!

http://kotaku.com/the-xbox-one-believers-513819282

Phil Spencer [Microsoft Games Studios VP] and I discuss the Xbox One's new family sharing option, which lets 10 members of a "family" share access to games. This seems to be the best thing of all the uncustomary new parameters that have been established for this new Xbox. In a family group, the head of household can always play any game; and one other member of the family, no matter where they are, can play too.

Kotaku: Can we be in the same family?

Spencer: Yeah.

Kotaku: What would be the limitation on that?

Spencer: [After encouraging me to check Microsoft's published document on this] I do think that sharing in a family group is an important part of the positives in our ecosystem today...You don't have to send in your birth certificate. You define what a family unit is and the people who connect to you and how that library works.
That first section was an introduction to the interview for the reader hence the brackets you removed.

"10 members of a "family" share access to games." Kotaku even hyperlinked this sentence back to the original article they wrote on June 6, from that licensing page before E3. The interview starts on "Kotaku: Can we be in the same family?"

The problem right now is, has the license statement changed based on the latest interviews from Major Nelson or Yusuf Medhi. Kotaku never got a statement out of Spencer on this part "the head of household can always play any game; and one other member of the family", otherwise it wouldn't be part of the introduction bracket.

 
The first question should have changed.

You + One other person can play the same game, at the same time. You (as the library owner) always has access to your games. Your family has access to a floating copy that (as far as we know) one other player can be playing.

The part's I bolded in my link from the xbox website clearly says you + 1.

This sentence specifically: You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RtSGFryKwo

At the 4:00 mark, Major Nelson said you can't play it simultaneously unless it offers splitscreen. Interview was done June 15. Your source is June 6, which is even before E3. Things might have changed, unless Major Nelson doesn't know what he is talking about...
Listen to what he actually asks him in the interview and what the answer is. He doesn't say can they play on two different consoles. If he did then I didn't hear that. I get the feeling he was thinking one console, one person. Hence the "split screen" part of the answer.

Edit:

That question and answer was very confusing. How can you not play simultaneously unless there is a split screen mode with another family member? I get the feeling someone is not getting the right information out. If this really is what he is saying its pretty lame. Basically the only thing that will get shared is single player only games and here is the issue with that. Lets say you beat a single player game. You then do not play it for 2 weeks. Can your family share people play it since the license hasn't been checked in 24 hours?

 
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The first question should have changed.

You + One other person can play the same game, at the same time. You (as the library owner) always has access to your games. Your family has access to a floating copy that (as far as we know) one other player can be playing.

The part's I bolded in my link from the xbox website clearly says you + 1.

This sentence specifically: You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RtSGFryKwo

At the 4:00 mark, Major Nelson said you can't play it simultaneously unless it offers splitscreen. Interview was done June 15. Your source is June 6, which is even before E3. Things might have changed, unless Major Nelson doesn't know what he is talking about...
Listen to what he actually asks him in the interview and what the answer is. He doesn't say can they play on two different consoles. If he did then I didn't hear that. I get the feeling he was thinking one console, one person. Hence the "split screen" part of the answer.

Edit:

That question and answer was very confusing. How can you not play simultaneously unless there is a split screen mode with another family member? I get the feeling someone is not getting the right information out. If this really is what he is saying its pretty lame. Basically the only thing that will get shared is single player only games and here is the issue with that. Lets say you beat a single player game. You then do not play it for 2 weeks. Can your family share people play it since the license hasn't been checked in 24 hours?
You have to listen to the previous answer he gave about "Think of it as one person at a time just like it is today." in order for you to understand how he got to the splitscreen answer. You just brought out another scenario about what if the person your sharing the game with never checks in and turns back on his console. We have no idea, hence the fustration with the lack of info.

 
the most important people to listen to are the Xbox policy makers at Microsoft.  that's Marc Witten (Corporate Vice President, Xbox LIVE at Microsoft Corporation, General Manager, Xbox LIVE at Microsoft), Aaron Greenberg (Microsoft Interactive Entertainment Business Chief of Staff), Phil Spencer (Microsoft Games Studios VP), Yusuf Mehdi (senior vice president of the Online Audience Business Group at Microsoft Corp), and Don Mattrick (President of the Interactive Entertainment Business at Microsoft).

everyone else, including notables such as Ballmer do not set Xbox policies.  Ballmer sets company-wide directives and goals but he doesn't go into the minutiae of the division.  That's up to the division management to determine details and policies for their division that fit the company-wide directives.

While Major Nelson is a fabulous liason between gamers and Xbox management, he is not part of Xbox management.  He's definitely a step above the $10/hour customer support staff but he gets sheets and instructions on what to say which can be misspoken quite easily.  I would not trust Xbox customer support at all.  Many people have been misled numerous times because the $10/hour person didn't know what he was talking about.  Plus, Angry Joe snuck in an impromptu interview between Major Nelson's regularly scheduled interviews (he talked about how gracious Major Nelson was to allow the interview to even happen since it wasn't scheduled).

 
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the most important people to listen to are the Xbox policy makers at Microsoft. that's Marc Witten (Corporate Vice President, Xbox LIVE at Microsoft Corporation, General Manager, Xbox LIVE at Microsoft), Aaron Greenberg (Microsoft Interactive Entertainment Business Chief of Staff), Phil Spencer (Microsoft Games Studios VP), Yusuf Mehdi (senior vice president of the Online Audience Business Group at Microsoft Corp), and Don Mattrick (President of the Interactive Entertainment Business at Microsoft).

everyone else, including notables such as Ballmer do not set Xbox policies. Ballmer sets company-wide directives and goals but he doesn't go into the minutiae of the division. That's up to the division management to determine details and policies for their division that fit the company-wide directives.

While Major Nelson is a fabulous liason between gamers and Xbox management, he is not part of Xbox management. He's definitely a step above the $10/hour customer support staff but he gets sheets and instructions on what to say which can be misspoken quite easily. I would not trust Xbox customer support at all. Many people have been misled numerous times because the $10/hour person didn't know what he was talking about. Plus, Angry Joe snuck in an impromptu interview between Major Nelson's regularly scheduled interviews (he talked about how gracious Major Nelson was to allow the interview to even happen since it wasn't scheduled).
"Working on the Xbox team since 2003 & Tweeting about it since 2006." I got that quote from his twitter account, he is like the face of xbox. I'm not sure how you are going to discredit what he has to say cause he is on the xbox team. Anyways I think I'm done going back and forth with you. I just want to get to the bottom of this and learn more about the family share plan. I am still open to getting an Xbox One if this Family Share is as great as you make it to be.

 
the most important people to listen to are the Xbox policy makers at Microsoft. that's Marc Witten (Corporate Vice President, Xbox LIVE at Microsoft Corporation, General Manager, Xbox LIVE at Microsoft), Aaron Greenberg (Microsoft Interactive Entertainment Business Chief of Staff), Phil Spencer (Microsoft Games Studios VP), Yusuf Mehdi (senior vice president of the Online Audience Business Group at Microsoft Corp), and Don Mattrick (President of the Interactive Entertainment Business at Microsoft).

everyone else, including notables such as Ballmer do not set Xbox policies. Ballmer sets company-wide directives and goals but he doesn't go into the minutiae of the division. That's up to the division management to determine details and policies for their division that fit the company-wide directives.

While Major Nelson is a fabulous liason between gamers and Xbox management, he is not part of Xbox management. He's definitely a step above the $10/hour customer support staff but he gets sheets and instructions on what to say which can be misspoken quite easily. I would not trust Xbox customer support at all. Many people have been misled numerous times because the $10/hour person didn't know what he was talking about. Plus, Angry Joe snuck in an impromptu interview between Major Nelson's regularly scheduled interviews (he talked about how gracious Major Nelson was to allow the interview to even happen since it wasn't scheduled).


"Working on the Xbox team since 2003 & Tweeting about it since 2006." I got that quote from his twitter account, he is like the face of xbox. I'm not sure how you are going to discredit what he has to say cause he is on the xbox team. Anyways I think I'm done going back and forth with you. I just want to get to the bottom of this and learn more about the family share plan. I am still open to getting an Xbox One if this Family Share is as great as you make it to be.

We have five months man. Give it some time and everything will come to light and then you can make an educated decision on which you want.
 
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