Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - *Its Over...Toshiba Swings White Flag*

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[quote name='dallow']Geko answered that question for you already.

As far as movies are concerned, 2.0 is the end.

It would be nice if some cool new feature we can't even imagine right now were to be introduced down the line.


But all I need is the ability to watch the movie.
I was happy with 1.0.[/quote]

He did...I must have forgotten then...my bad.
 
[quote name='dallow']Toshiba players are not as trouble free as you make them out to be.

They need FW updates to fix a few things (including to playback a few discs in the past)
And many have inherent bugs.
All the 3rd gen players have broken de-interlacing as well. Just read the threads at AVS.

Yes, the BD standalones have their own quirks, but you will be able to play back newer BDs on old players, you just can't watch the 1.1 or 2.0 features.

A 2.0 standalone is the way to go, they'll be here soon.[/quote]

Oh don't get me wrong, FW updates seems to be the norm with today's technology and around launch some were in fact buggy on a lot of titles but most of these issues were panned out via FW updates. There's a problem with Blu-ray though. You can't update some via FW to iron out issues. Some issues are hardware related. Some are both software and hardware. As for the bolded comment I for awhile thought this too until I started hearing issues on why Independance Day was delayed (newer Java coding issue on older stand alones and it's supposedly a 1.1 profile release) and the BD reps themselves stating issues at this year's CES, favoring the PS3 as a player. That speaks volumes to me. CES is THE show of all consumer electronics shows. If they even hint at an issue, you better believe there is an issue. It could get ironed out over time after CES but at the same time the issue is there now and most average consumers can't grasp the concept of updating a player (hence why most HD DVD players weren't hooked up to the internet). They will think their player died out. These reps stated, and I quote
"They knew what they were getting into."
Click to expand...
(source: http://www.betanews.com/article/Bluray_Early_adopters_knew_what_they_were_getting_into/1199841379)

THAT my friend pisses me off! We all know that early adopters face the biggest hurdles with technology and issues but to not play disks at all as the biggest potential? Absurd to say the least. ALL gen1 red players play ALL disks, even if it's software related and requires a FW update.

Damn I just realized I'm typing too much... I must be bored at work :lol:
 
[quote name='dallow']


But all I need is the ability to watch the movie.
I was happy with 1.0.[/QUOTE]


Thats why I am very happy with the S300 I got for my bedroom for $200 with 10 free movies, even though some folks said there is no good deal to be had on that model. :D

I only want to watch the movie. I really don't care much at all for special features. If they offered a cheaper version of just the movie with no features I would buy that for every movie.
 
That's right Rodeo.


In other news, we new Warner was pushing back the HD DVD version of new movies by 3 weeks.

Looks like they'll do it for catalog titles as well.

Warner news
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']Thats why I am very happy with the S300 I got for my bedroom for $200 with 10 free movies, even though some folks said there is no good deal to be had on that model. :D

I only want to watch the movie. I really don't care much at all for special features. If they offered a cheaper version of just the movie with no features I would buy that for every movie.[/quote]I bet that fancy 1.1 profile disc RE3 plays back just fine in your player.

In fact, I know it does.
 
[quote name='dallow']Is there a BD disc that doesn't playback in a specific BD player?[/quote]
There were 2 Fox titles that didn't play in Samsung and LG units. Fox publicly lashed out at Sammy and LG but that was fixed after a FW update. This was BD1.0 disks on BD1.0 players and the issue if I recall was BD+ oriented. We know Fox has been the biggest pushers for BD+ security. The films were FF2:Silver Surfer and Fox's other release that week.

I haven't been following that side of things much but I know there was a recent release over the holidays that was intermittent (probably a FW issue) and played on some but not on all specific branded stand alones.

Unfortunately for early nonPS3 owning adopters is that it's known the Java coding has evolved for the better of the format but have issues playing and even locking out the movie on some stand alones. We won't see any of this until a full featured BD2.0 disk is released to the public and this all could be resolved with a mass FW update once they figure it out. In a way, so far so good :bouncy:
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=883

Is it that more people went out and bought blu-ray stand alones, or that no one bought HD DVD players?[/quote]Some of A, and a lot of B!

Here's how the January Week 1 unit sales looked for each format (week ending 1/5)...

Blu-ray Disc - 15,257 units
HD-DVD - 14,558 units

That was prior to the Warner announcement, which came on 1/4. Now here's how the January Week 2 unit sales data for each format looked AFTER the announcement (for the week ending 1/12)...

Blu-ray Disc - 21,770 units
HD-DVD - 1,758 units
Click to expand...

http://thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents
 
[quote name='dallow']Don't you dare spin it Linkin! :bomb:

;)[/quote]

Well, you see here's what happened...users at Blu-Ray.com made a pact to each buy as many Blu-Ray players as they could afford to string the numbers and return them within 15 days...so we'll see the effect later...here's the proof.
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']Wow, that's pretty shocking considering how expensive Blu-Ray players are vs buying a PS3...Though with tax season in effect guess its not that shocking.[/QUOTE]

I'm not convinced that it represents a marked increase in BD players as much as it (likely) indicates a drop in HD player sales.

Which, of course, with the recent across-the-board price drop in HD players, will rebound (somewhat) in the coming weeks.
 
Yea, BD player numbers didn't increase too significantly:
Here's how the January Week 1 unit sales looked for each format (week ending 1/5)...

Blu-ray Disc - 15,257 units
HD-DVD - 14,558 units

That was prior to the Warner announcement, which came on 1/4. Now here's how the January Week 2 unit sales data for each format looked AFTER the announcement (for the week ending 1/12)...

Blu-ray Disc - 21,770 units
HD-DVD - 1,758 units
Click to expand...
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I'm not convinced that it represents a marked increase in BD players as much as it (likely) indicates a drop in HD player sales.

Which, of course, with the recent across-the-board price drop in HD players, will rebound (somewhat) in the coming weeks.[/quote]

Agreed. There was a lot of commotion after the WB announcement on HD DVD player returns which negatively impacted the data. This is obvious but for us to see the state of HD DVD after the announcement we have to see a few weeks from now when the numbers stabilize a bit. These returns could easily come from Xmas presents and gift cards being used. A boost in BD players actually I think is in effect when some still interested in HDM traded in their HD DVD players for BD players.

I predict that HD DVD will be better but by how much... I don't think it will be drastically better.
 
Look like a little of column A, and a lot of column B. Sales date from Bill Hunt (I know, I know):

(for the week ending 1/5)
Blu-ray Disc - 15,257 units
HD-DVD - 14,558 units

(for the week ending 1/12)...

Blu-ray Disc - 21,770 units
HD-DVD - 1,758 units

While we're at it, here are the unit sales numbers for the month of December as well (weeks ending 12/8 to 12/29)...

Blu-ray Disc - 115,132 units
HD-DVD - 76,148 units
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Oh, bollocks. I swear to fuckin' Christ I wasn't Gizmo'ing you.

Just...good taste and all that.[/quote]

ROFL, Gizmoing. What an interesting word. :)
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']I really don't care much at all for special features. If they offered a cheaper version of just the movie with no features I would buy that for every movie.[/quote]I know this was a page back, but I just wanted to say that whenever there is a movie with special features over one without, I go for the more loaded version, nearly every time. To take away special features because of incompatibility and simply say, "Oh well, you knew what you were getting into!" is a slap in the face IMO. (Although it doesn't affect me much since my bro has a PS3 and I won't be buying a standalone BD player for a while).
 
[quote name='GrilledWitOnions']I know this was a page back, but I just wanted to say that whenever there is a movie with special features over one without, I go for the more loaded version, nearly every time. To take away special features because of incompatibility and simply say, "Oh well, you knew what you were getting into!" is a slap in the face IMO. (Although it doesn't affect me much since my bro has a PS3 and I won't be buying a standalone BD player for a while).[/quote]The only special features that wouldn't be compatible are internet crap, and true PiP.

Though the studio can still let you view the PiP content by itself if you don't have a 1.1 player.
 
[quote name='dallow']The only special features that wouldn't be compatible are internet crap, and true PiP.

Though the studio can still let you view the PiP content by itself if you don't have a 1.1 player.[/quote]Oh that's good to know then. I don't care at all about internet features; they're always boring and a waste of time, little more than a bullet point on the back of the box. Too bad about PiP, but I don't see that being used all the often anyway. So... I guess it's not as bad as I thought.
 
[quote name='dallow']The only special features that wouldn't be compatible are internet crap, and true PiP.

Though the studio can still let you view the PiP content by itself if you don't have a 1.1 player.[/quote]
...so long as it works that way, cuz based on BD reps at CES, they don't seem too confident. ;)

and yet another reason why you can't go wrong with a PS3 :bouncy:
 
That's exactly what the reps are talking about.

Those are the only features that 1.1 and 2.0 affect.

PS3 is the best, no question. :)
 
[quote name='dallow']That's exactly what the reps are talking about.

Those are the only features that 1.1 and 2.0 affect.

PS3 is the best, no question. :)[/quote]

No fam, they weren't implying 1.1 and 2.0 disks not playing 1.1 or 2.0 features on 1.0 players... They were refering to the disks not playing at all, as in the disk becomes a coaster until either a FW update comes or you get a new player that works. This is all due to the evolution of the Java coding on newer disks and players being compatibile with older players.
 
We'll see in time.

So far discs seem to work so long as you have updated FW.
(with few exceptions, and isolated cases on both formats)
 
[quote name='dallow']We'll see in time.

So far discs seem to work so long as you have updated FW.
(with few exceptions, and isolated cases on both formats)[/quote]

Agreed. I really hope for the sake of HDM, not just Blu-ray, that these issues are ironed out before they launch the 2.0 profile.
 
[quote name='cuco33']Agreed. I really hope for the sake of HDM, not just Blu-ray, that these issues are ironed out before they launch the 2.0 profile.[/quote]Saw IV is a profile 2.0 disc.
MoLog - Short for MovieLog, this feature promises to allow consumers to create and share their own added value content via blog entries. Again, when Profile 2.0 players arrive, we'll give MoLog a spin and update this review.
Click to expand...
No problems heard so far.

(hehe, no player can use the feature yet though :) )
 
So... if someone just recently bought a media center w/ Blu-Ray player (with included FREE video game console!), what movies would you recommend to show it off a bit? Of course, it'll still need to be something good, but just curious on what some of the standout titles are at this point.
 
[quote name='daroga']So... if someone just recently bought a media center w/ Blu-Ray player (with included FREE video game console!), what movies would you recommend to show it off a bit? Of course, it'll still need to be something good, but just curious on what some of the standout titles are at this point.[/quote]Hi Daroga!! Welcome aboard!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=858316

Check out the first post in that thread daroga.
Any of the tier 0 and 1 titles should look just fantastic.
 
Yeah, Blade Runner, the Harry Potter movies (esp. OOTP), and I thought Shoot 'Em Up looked great also. Final Fantasy: TSW is phenomenal as well...but...well...you know. It's a terrible fucking movie.

I'm not so sure about 300. I don't disagree that it has amazing PQ, but it has so much artificial grain that doesn't make it resemble film stock that I don't know if people really "get it." You know?

Planet Earth is also a good inoffensive choice, for the most part. Its only downside is its cost.
 
Thank ya' dallow!

TMNT is tempting. That movie was fun. Phantom of the Opera is tempting too, but it's listed in both Tier 1 and Tier 2. Seems odd.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Gerard Butler's fucking singing makes it a tier 2 in terms of audio.

;)[/quote]So true... HD is just going to exaggerate how not disfigured he was as well. Awesome.
 
[quote name='daroga']So... if someone just recently bought a media center w/ Blu-Ray player (with included FREE video game console!), what movies would you recommend to show it off a bit? Of course, it'll still need to be something good, but just curious on what some of the standout titles are at this point.[/quote]

Assuming PS3 (:cool:)...

If you like nature stuff get Planet Earth Series. I think it's the perfect show off material but not action oriented. That (and Matrix trilogy) was what I first got when I ordered my HD-A2 but I don't think I have any top tier ranking titles for Blu-ray just yet. Kingdom of Heaven I heard is gorgeous for non-animated and I'm waiting for it to go back on sale... Animated you'll be wowed by Cars or Ratatouille but frankly I'm not a fan and it won't make my collection. Check AVS forums, I think they have a rating system for both formats.

My HDM purchases have been put on hold since I'm moving. :bomb:
 
Word on the street is that, despite the long delay on rereleasing the Jack Ryan collection on HD DVD, that it's the same featureless discs in packaging that doesn't tout features they don't have.

Classy. But unconfirmed, methinks.
 
For Reference Quality Blu-ray, I highly Recommend any of the Pirates, Apocalypto, Crank, TMNT, The Rock, Transporter, Spider-man 3, Hellboy, or Casino Royale. And I agree with Myke about 300. Film Grain ruins it.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']For Reference Quality Blu-ray, I highly Recommend any of the Pirates, Apocalypto, Crank, TMNT, The Rock, Transporter, Spider-man 3, Hellboy, or Casino Royale. And I agree with Myke about 300. Film Grain ruins it.[/quote]

x2.

Add the ending of Rocky Balboa to that list. The HD shots are amazing there.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']For Reference Quality Blu-ray, I highly Recommend any of the Pirates, Apocalypto, Crank, TMNT, The Rock, Transporter, Spider-man 3, Hellboy, or Casino Royale. And I agree with Myke about 300. Film Grain ruins it.[/quote]

Most of those are on my buy list.

now where's them BOGOs :drool:
 
[quote name='Ugamer_X']This is the best looking non-CG disc I've seen. Plus, it's a good film.[/quote]

Yep, this one of those movies that really benefits from HD because of it all being outside. The colors are extrodinary, and just everything about it is Wow.
 
I think I'm gonna nab TMNT for sure, maybe Phantom as well, but that would be replacing a DVD, something I was pretty dead-set against. If only I hadn't just gotten Casino Royale last week on DVD! And for such a good price!
 
NPD explains the massive change in weekly player sales:
A report from NPD Group claimed Blu-ray standalone player sales accounted for 93 percent of the high-def market for the week ending January 12, but NPD itself won't stand behind the numbers, saying they were leaked and that weekly sales data is not a long-term indicator.According to Stephen Baker, vice president of industry analysis for NPD, the data "came from an NPD subscriber" and "wasn't approved for release from NPD." He added that the firm typically sees big fluctuations in sales volumes each week, and never makes long-term judgements based on weekly data.
"It reflects what was going on during that week," Baker said, adding that it wasn't smart to "extrapolate that out for six months."So what went on the week ending January 12 that led to such high numbers in Blu-ray standalone player sales? Bundling deals with HDTVs, explained Baker. Sharp Blu-ray players accounted for over 30% of sales, as they were offered free to buyers of the company's LCD televisions.
Sony -- also accounting for one-third of sales -- had a similar $400-off deal for Blu-ray players when buying a Sony HDTV.
Panasonic, like Sharp, offered a free Blu-ray player and made up for the remaining third of units sold. Samsung Blu-ray sales were almost non-existent, as the company did not offer any special deals to TV buyers.
The NPD figures did not include Sony's PlayStation 3 or Microsoft's HD DVD add-on for the Xbox 360 -- only standalone players.
Baker wouldn't get specific -- since NPD normally never even comments on weekly sales data -- but said there was some drop in HD DVD player sales. For its part, the HD DVD Promotional Group told BetaNews the weekly sales data was from before the HD DVD player price drop Toshiba announced last week.
Baker did provide BetaNews some insight as to how NPD counts sales. It receives its data from point-of-sale systems from a number of retail outlets across the United States. He would not say how many retailers send data to NPD, but said it was "double digits."
Click to expand...
http://www.betanews.com/article/print/NPD_Free_Bluray_player_deals_led_to_boosted_sales_this_month/1201203983

Here's their actual statement:
"As you may have seen, there are attempts being made to portray NPD's weekly sales tracking figures for next generation DVD as a trend. We want to remind you and make clear that it is not accurate to make long term assumptions based on one week of sales -- a cautionary point that NPD has made as well.

"The facts are that during the week that is being singled out, both Blu-ray disc players and software were being given away for free with the purchase of 1080p TVs. It is also important to note that the instant rebate promotions that had previously netted Toshiba's players' MSRPs to $199 and $249 had actually ended on Jan. 5th -- causing an increase in HD DVD's MSRP back to $299 and $399 during that same week. Since Toshiba's retail price move on Jan. 13th to $149 / $199 -- Toshiba is seeing very positive sales trends at retail. This reinforces the fact that price is a significant driver of sales.

"Toshiba's HD DVD players represent a significant value to the consumer and the marketing campaign that just began is proving effective."
Click to expand...
http://www.dailygame.net/news/archives/007137.php
 
[quote name='daroga']I think I'm gonna nab TMNT for sure, maybe Phantom as well, but that would be replacing a DVD, something I was pretty dead-set against. If only I hadn't just gotten Casino Royale last week on DVD! And for such a good price![/QUOTE]


I just dumped my copy of Casino Royale. I liked the movie (how many more times will I watch it, I don't know).

The grain is apparent as far as I am concerned. Not a show off piece in my mind.

Planet earth on the other hand!

Ratatouille was not a great movie, but any of those animated movies are a showpiece.
 
so bunch of people took vague data they don't really understand and spinned it

what else is new

wonder if Bill Hunt will print the rest of the article, or just stick with the 93% thing

lol@"It was always our intention that the data would speak for itself, which is why we were very careful in accurately creating the pie charts, and it's why we're posting the unit sales data for you now."
 
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