Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - *Its Over...Toshiba Swings White Flag*

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[quote name='kevzik']BIG NEWS:

CC dropping HD DVD????

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=39256

Well, we tried.

NOW BRING ON CHEAP ASS HD DVD MOVIES!

Then again...they just might be clearing old models out...[/quote]
I think this is more than just clearing out models. CC is in such finiancial ruins they aren't far away from closing their doors and for some reason the vast majority of BD fanatics jump on this as an early sign without looking at the store that's doing the 'clearance' pricing. I mean yes HD DVD could very well be looking forward to clear out their inventory and pull out sooner than later but you would see this pricing strategy across all other B&M stores. Few weeks ago it was made evident how clusterf*ck of a business model Circuit City had... I least expected to hear my coworker tell me that he's surprised they are still open... Another case of greedy and too many overhead draining the business to death
 
Just bought Shaun of the Dead and Bourne Supremacy from BB. Kind of suprised to see how red my collection has gotten. Once I get AG and my 5 free movies shit will be about even (right now I have 15 HD DVDs, 25 Blu Ray's, along with Heroes and both seasons of Weeds)
 
[quote name='mykevermin']For what? The 4th gen HD DVD players? ;)[/QUOTE]

Maybe you'll get a free one and fall in love with it . ;)

That's what it takes , right ?
 
well now i can appreciate hdm just a tad more..
picked up a sammy 40 in 1080p 120hz today...

quality is insane...im watching rocky balboa and the fluidity is jaw dropping

now i truly need an a35 player
 
[quote name='guyver2077']well now i can appreciate hdm just a tad more..
picked up a sammy 40 in 1080p 120hz today...

quality is insane...im watching rocky balboa and the fluidity is jaw dropping

now i truly need an a35 player[/quote]

How does the 120hz look with video games?

Right now I'm trying to decide between 3 sammy tvs. Two of them are 120hz TVs.

LNT4665F
LNT4669
LNT4671F
 
[quote name='RawisJericho']How does the 120hz look with video games?

Right now I'm trying to decide between 3 sammy tvs. Two of them are 120hz TVs.

LNT4665F
LNT4669
LNT4671F[/quote]

i almost went with the more expensive (atleast in store) LNT467IF but i went with the LNT4669 (40 in vers). The quality has been amazing so far. I dont know if games support the 120 hz feature though. Movies look amazing.

I almost went with a 46 in sony bravia non 120hz. It would of been cheaper but i dont think it would of fit in my car and i was desperate already.

In the end i sacrificed 2 in over my old westinghouse but i think the quality makes up for it.
 
so that 5 movie rebate for the toshiba players is ending in feb. heres hoping they plan on releasing a new promotion. (i have not yet even received my 5 movies)

if i sell my a2 i may just jumo on the a30.. its getting soo cheap
 
I've got to chime in and say I wished I had gone neutral/purple earlier than later. This past week (including Sunday) I saw 2 upscaled DVDs using my HD-A2, 3 HD DVDs from Netflix and 2 BDs I hadn't openned yet since buying my PS3... Unfortunately most want 1 format only and if Warner decided to stay neutral I think by Xmas we would see a neutral dual format future with new dual format players coming out... ah well
 
[quote name='dallow']One format is better.

Be it HD DVD or BD.[/QUOTE]


100% agreed. I'd never buy into any media format for movies or music until it was unified to the point that I can find at least every new release in that format (have to except that some catalog titles may not come out if new formats remain niche).

It's just not worth the hassle to me to have two players, two different types of HDM discs on my shelf etc.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']It's just not worth the hassle to me to have two players, two different types of HDM discs on my shelf etc.[/quote]But if the war continues we might see more dual format players, at which point the only real difference in the media will be the color of the case. I wanted to see the war continue; it kept prices low. Since Warners move, I haven't seen anything really great coming my way price wise. If I can't get a BD movie for $10 or less, I won't be buying.
 
[quote name='GrilledWitOnions']But if the war continues we might see more dual format players, at which point the only real difference in the media will be the color of the case. I wanted to see the war continue; it kept prices low. Since Warners move, I haven't seen anything really great coming my way price wise. If I can't get a BD movie for $10 or less, I won't be buying.[/quote]Remember, Blu-Ray still has a much bigger competitor than HD DVD ever was, DVD. Prices will continue to fall to encourage more people to adopt HDM over their DVD counterparts.
 
Yep, I'm the same. BR prices will have to get much closer to DVD prices before I consider buying. As I quite like buying DVDs 6-12 months after launch for $5-10, and as I'm not much of a videophile I'm not willing to pay much of a premium for HD movies.

But daroga is right, BR's main competitor (when HD-DVD is totally dead) is DVD as those are a huge mainstream success, while BR is still entirely a niche product. So HD-DVD dying off won't slow down BR price drops at all IMO.
 
the lack of bogo lately has been dissapointing...i dont think there has been any since the warner move.


bb has a bogo on select hd dvd titles in store though but nothing i dont already have
 
I don't agree that DVD is HD's competitor. They will make money either way, and at this point I think it's still sort of early adopter stage, meaning they'll be selling HD stuff at $25-$30 for a while, since it's a sort of take it or leave it scenario. You just want the movie? They get your money from the DVD. You want High Def? Then go get the BD for a premium. Without the other format, it's win-win. Hope I'm way off on this though.
 
[quote name='guyver2077']the lack of bogo lately has been dissapointing...i dont think there has been any since the warner move.


bb has a bogo on select hd dvd titles in store though but nothing i dont already have[/quote]

It was kind of expected and I'm not so sure we'll see a BOGO from the blu side. I really want one too! Last HD DVD BOGO was kind of lackluster and there wasn't much I wanted on the list. Sucks I think I missed out with my PS3. BOGOs have been kind of the norm and expected. I doubt sales volume is large enough without the BOGOs... Both formats are still niche in my book
 
[quote name='cuco33']It was kind of expected and I'm not so sure we'll see a BOGO from the blu side. I really want one too! Last HD DVD BOGO was kind of lackluster and there wasn't much I wanted on the list. Sucks I think I missed out with my PS3. BOGOs have been kind of the norm and expected. I doubt sales volume is large enough without the BOGOs... Both formats are still niche in my book[/QUOTE]


They don't really need it anymore. So while we want them Blu-ray is dominating in sales without BOGO. Look at the amazon trackers and it shows how well blu-ray is selling there. Right now there are only 2 HD DVD titles in the top 25 sellers.
 
[quote name='GrilledWitOnions']I don't agree that DVD is HD's competitor. They will make money either way, and at this point I think it's still sort of early adopter stage, meaning they'll be selling HD stuff at $25-$30 for a while, since it's a sort of take it or leave it scenario. You just want the movie? They get your money from the DVD. You want High Def? Then go get the BD for a premium. Without the other format, it's win-win. Hope I'm way off on this though.[/quote]You are. They don't want to just sell to early adopters. They want more people to adopt and make it mainstream. That's why we'll see cheaper movies / players in the days to come.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']They don't really need it anymore. So while we want them Blu-ray is dominating in sales without BOGO. Look at the amazon trackers and it shows how well blu-ray is selling there. Right now there are only 2 HD DVD titles in the top 25 sellers.[/quote]

Not sure if you know but Amazon doesn't mean anything... If it did, we would have seen HD DVD pull out with wins numerous times. Both in terms of software and hardware... They have hit top 10 many times over even at one time having I believe all top 10 spots due to a BOGO that week, and still lost by a decent amount. It's a miniscule snapshot in my book until enough volume moves, and that only comes with time when more people have adopted HDM.

They are sales rankings based on their formula, not based on actual sales volumes.
 
[quote name='daroga']You are. They don't want to just sell to early adopters. They want more people to adopt and make it mainstream. That's why we'll see cheaper movies / players in the days to come.[/QUOTE]

Ultimately, I think the allure of reselling movies to us on BD will become enough to see pressings and prices make BD even more attractive. You'll see BD grow in stores, and DVD shrink. Right now Amazon has a few B-movie (at best!) double features (see the last couple of pages in this thread) for $14.95. These movies, on DVD, would probably go for $1-5 or so. It's not that BD wants to be expensive, but for the moment, it's a helluva lot more expensive to sell than a DVD, which costs next to nothing. Once mass adoption occurs, more replication lines are built, reliability increased and error reduced, the cost will drop, and then the movies may well still MSRP around $30-40, but the prices will often be far less than that.

At least, I hope so - and if they want BD to make up for declining DVD sales, they need to as well.
 
It's an interesting and unprecedented maneuver. On one hand, why limit it to one region (unless, of course, so few HD players exist in those regions that it's an easy thing to pull off financially) - on the other, why would Max Power suggest some European regions and not others? I know he's British, so perhaps that's the extent of his insider knowledge.

Imagine flipping a $100 A3 for $150 off the price of a PS3.
 
[quote name='GrilledWitOnions']I don't agree that DVD is HD's competitor. [/QUOTE]

Sony wants BR to become THE dominant movie format. Not just be a niche item 99% of people don't give a shit about like Laserdisc was.

To do that, they have to convince people to stop buying DVDs of new releases and to buy a BR player and buy them on BR. And if catalog titles are too sell well, they have to convince them to rebuy titles they own in DVD in many cases.

So yes, they are in competition as they're both fighting for marketshare in the home video market.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Sony wants BR to become THE dominant movie format. Not just be a niche item 99% of people don't give a shit about like Laserdisc was.

To do that, they have to convince people to stop buying DVDs of new releases and to buy a BR player and buy them on BR. And if catalog titles are too sell well, they have to convince them to rebuy titles they own in DVD in many cases.

So yes, they are in competition as they're both fighting for marketshare in the home video market.[/quote]

Exactly, the sole reason for HDM, both BD and HD DVD was to be the successor for DVD. Studios want people to double or triple dip. Think about the same scenario when VHS was around and people rebought the movie on DVD. The studio sold you the same film twice. Only here it's DVD to HDM.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Imagine flipping a $100 A3 for $150 off the price of a PS3.[/quote]And it's $150 euros, which according to google, is $220 USD. That would be sweet.

[quote name='dmaul114']
Sony wants BR to become THE dominant movie format. Not just be a niche item 99% of people don't give a shit about like Laserdisc was.

To do that, they have to convince people to stop buying DVDs of new releases and to buy a BR player and buy them on BR. And if catalog titles are too sell well, they have to convince them to rebuy titles they own in DVD in many cases.

So yes, they are in competition as they're both fighting for marketshare in the home video market.[/quote]
[quote name='cuco33']Exactly, the sole reason for HDM, both BD and HD DVD was to be the successor for DVD. Studios want people to double or triple dip. Think about the same scenario when VHS was around and people rebought the movie on DVD. The studio sold you the same film twice. Only here it's DVD to HDM.[/quote]
I suppose a better way to put it is DVD is not as much competition as HD-DVD. Sony and the others of course want people to jump into this, but with HD-DVD out of the picture they don't need to lower the price to get consumers to notice them, and in fact most people consider a pricier product to be a superior one. I don't forsee BD dropping to DVD prices at all in the near future. Hardware will fall in price, and that gets it in the home, and then consumers don't need to decide between DVD or BD. They will invariably want BD for their new HDTV and BD player, and will pay the $25 asking price. Of course, this is ALL speculation. I'm still young so I don't really know what DVD prices were like when it first hit the scene, but I'm guessing it stayed $5-$10 more expensive than VHS until about 2002. (Does anyone have any sales data links? I can't seem to find any besides this one of player sales. Would be neat to compare and contrast this format with the previous).
 
I think you can stop calling HDM niche, dmaul.
It's doing much better, growing faster, and is much more internationally known than laserdisc.

No way they'd do that amount of trade in for HD DVD here in the states.
Maybe $50.
 
I noticed that Flags of Our Fathers was in stock on Amazon this morning, but I have no idea if it was ever OOS. Unfortunately, The Untouchables is still OOP.
 
I'm tempted to get Flags, since I have Letters to Iwo Jima. I can't help but think, though: Paramount's been HD exclusive since late August, and the movie still isn't sold out at Amazon. Does the PQ stink or somethin'?
 
Far from it. The PQ and AQ are both outstanding. Some people complain about the CG, but I only even noticed it in one scene. Likely it isn't selling too well because it's documentary-ish.

It's a very good movie and I recommend picking it up. Letters is definitely the superior film, however.
 
i was expecting jerkyness when i turned on my a2 and connected it to my tv but it turned out to look very fluid as well.

transformers looked amazing. i suspect some conversion is taking place. I was going to try to find a 1080p/24 player on the cheap but im not sure how much of an improvement it would be.
 
personally i couldn't tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p when they were the same frame rate

but once i switched 1080p/24 i could tell the difference, mostly in heavy action/cgi movies
 
[quote name='GrilledWitOnions']
I don't forsee BD dropping to DVD prices at all in the near future. .[/QUOTE]

And in that case it will remain a woefully niche product for the near future, with total year sales on all titles not selling as much at the single best selling DVDs of the year as was the case last year.

Joe Six Pack isn't paying a premium for HD. Hell, a lot of people I know who have HDTVs have no HDTV programming of any kind! They just wanted a big TV.

And the friends/family I have that have HDTVs, only 1 has a HD-DVD or BR player, the rest just don't care and think DVDs look great on their TVs.

It'll never have a chance of being DVDs successor if prices don't get more comparable soon. If it stays more expensive, it will be a niche item with DVDs remaining the leader in sales and rentals just as VHS did despite Laserdisc offering vastly superior picture and sound. Though it will likely be a much larger and more successful niche than LD.
 
[quote name='dallow']I think you can stop calling HDM niche, dmaul.
It's doing much better, growing faster, and is much more internationally known than laserdisc.

No way they'd do that amount of trade in for HD DVD here in the states.
Maybe $50.[/quote]

No it's definately still niche. Sure it's doing better ever since the Warner announcement but it's still an extremely small market with many things to finalize and improve on. You have to look at things a little differently. More people worldwide now have more disposable income, and moreso spend more than they make. It's not like the VHS days where the majority of the market was in rentals, there are a lot of people buying today but the masses still buy DVD. Last I checked, HDM didn't even break 3% of overall home movie sales... That says niche all over it.

Expect it to remain a niche for the next year or two.
 
[quote name='dallow']I disagree.[/QUOTE]


I have to agree with dallow. Shit is starting to pick up steam. Almost every time I have walked into BB lately I have seen people walk out with an HD player or about 10 people gathering around a BB person to hear about the wonders of HD movies. That wasn't happening all that long ago.
 
It's starting to become a large niche, but it's a long way from being a mainstream product among the average consumer.

It's taking off among the more technology inclined beyond early adopters. But it's a long way from being in Joe Six Pack who buys all their movies from the Bargin Bin in Wal-marts home.

Hell, I own almost 300 DVDs, have a 50" HDTV and DD 5.1 sound, so I'm well beyond Joe Six Pack when it comes to buying this stuff and it's still a long way from being in my home.

It's tough for it to get out of the audio/videophile niche when prices are still so much higher than DVD.

It's a tough sell to someone like me who loves movies and TV, but doesn't care that much about picture quality and thinks that dvds with good transfers look more than good enough upconverted.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']It's starting to become a large niche, but it's a long way from being a mainstream product among the average consumer.

It's taking off among the more technology inclined beyond early adopters. But it's a long way from being in Joe Six Pack who buys all their movies from the Bargin Bin in Wal-marts home.

Hell, I own almost 300 DVDs, have a 50" HDTV and DD 5.1 sound, so I'm well beyond Joe Six Pack when it comes to buying this stuff and it's still a long way from being in my home.

It's tough for it to get out of the audio/videophile niche when prices are still so much higher than DVD.

It's a tough sell to someone like me who loves movies and TV, but doesn't care that much about picture quality and thinks that dvds with good transfers look more than good enough upconverted.[/quote]

And that my friends is why I think HDM was always destined to remain a niche product for a niche market. Why? Because to most, DVD is good enough especially at the cheaper price points. I've always thought that, I still think that, and I think it will always be that way. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see HDM be the new DVD format widely embraced by all but that won't happen and the potential HDM has will only be adopted like that some 10yrs down the line.
 
[quote name='guyver2077']i was expecting jerkyness when i turned on my a2 and connected it to my tv but it turned out to look very fluid as well.

transformers looked amazing. i suspect some conversion is taking place. I was going to try to find a 1080p/24 player on the cheap but im not sure how much of an improvement it would be.[/quote]

Zero difference if the player properly converts it to 1080i@60fps and the TV can detect the cadence and properly deinterlace it. It would be the same thing as 1080p@24fps.
 
[quote name='b3b0p']Zero difference if the player properly converts it to 1080i@60fps and the TV can detect the cadence and properly deinterlace it. It would be the same thing as 1080p@24fps.[/quote]In which case, that's a no.

Well, glad it's a "large" niche dmaul.
Whatever that means.
 
[quote name='dallow']Are you using that 'motion flow' stuff or something?
I turn that off on my set.[/quote]

I still have all factory settings. Samsung's 120hz feature is called auto motion plus.

The movies look so fluid that im still jaw dropped. I can easily tell the diff when i had my old tv. The "lag" that was noticeable in hd/bd movies is gone and everything looks super smooth and sharp.
 
I like to use that motion flow (aka auto motion plus) for TV programs.

It looks too smooth for movies though, I leave it off for films and keep it natrual.

Try turning it on high.
It looks wierd.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']It's starting to become a large niche, but it's a long way from being a mainstream product among the average consumer.

It's taking off among the more technology inclined beyond early adopters. But it's a long way from being in Joe Six Pack who buys all their movies from the Bargin Bin in Wal-marts home.

Hell, I own almost 300 DVDs, have a 50" HDTV and DD 5.1 sound, so I'm well beyond Joe Six Pack when it comes to buying this stuff and it's still a long way from being in my home.

It's tough for it to get out of the audio/videophile niche when prices are still so much higher than DVD.

It's a tough sell to someone like me who loves movies and TV, but doesn't care that much about picture quality and thinks that dvds with good transfers look more than good enough upconverted.[/QUOTE]

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6525812.html?nid=3511

Aren't you a criminologist? Shouldn't you be the kind of person who hesitates to make claims in the absence of data? Well, if you aren't, you should be.

JAN. 25 | High-definition DVD player sales during the fourth quarter spiked well above standard DVD at the comparable point in the earlier format’s life cycle.

Price-driven promotions are the main reason for high-def’s steeper growth curve, according to Paul Erickson, DisplaySearch director of DVD and HD Market Research.

Standard DVD players were priced more steadily during their first months on shelves, he explained, as they were never embroiled in a hyper-competitive format war.

During the last weeks of 2007, Blu-ray Disc players could be bought for less than $300, marking a $200 drop from widespread pricing earlier in the year. HD DVD players were offered at ultra-low $99 pricing at Wal-Mart and Best Buy in November.

“There is a much larger spike at the end of the year for next-generation DVD due to strong performances by both formats for November and December, as well as heavy competition-driven promotions for both Black Friday and the December holiday season,” said Erickson.

Additionally, retailers have begun bundling free BD players with the purchase of like-branded high-def 1080p TV sets. Such promotions were started in earnest during the fourth quarter and continue into 2008. The deals are thought to be a key reason for BD’s sales dominance over HD DVD early this year.

On the heels of Warner Bros. Entertainment’s beginning of 2008 announcement about dropping its HD DVD support, Blu-ray set-tops dominated 90% of all high-def hardware unit sales for the week ended Jan. 12, according to the NPD Group. HD DVD set-tops represented 7% and dual-format players totaled 3% of sales during that seven-day frame.
Click to expand...
 
I can definitely see HD pick up more and more steam in the next few years.

I was watching NBC earlier and they even had a commercial informing people of the over the air switch in 2009.
 
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