Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - *Its Over...Toshiba Swings White Flag*

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[quote name='dallow']And they still lost the week to BD.[/quote]
?? The most recent numbers available (released today) are from three weeks ago. Dec. 10-16
 
If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.

Why are the numbers late then.
I assumed (and made an ass out of myself) that the numbers are for a week ago like normal.
 
What I find curious about Warner's involvement in BOGOs the past month (the HP movies this week, and having some selections here and there in other BOGOs) is that all signs point to them going exclusive soon. However, by becoming involved in BOGOs, they're skewing their own data, so they can't say "well, Harry Potter sold better on HD DVD," or "Blood Diamond and Enter the Dragon sold better on BD," because the people buying them (including me) did so because they were BOGOs.

Hmm. Maybe they're just gonna stay neutral for the long haul, and any "they're going HD/BD exclusive" claptrap is merely their means of marketing their own films. They've certainly gotten the attention and wallets of many knowledgeable early adopters this past month, as everyone is in a frenzy to prove that they're the most loyal to Warner. Meanwhile, they've shown disinterest in gaining valuable information via these sales.

So, either they've made up their mind (unlikely), or they're going to stay neutral for awhile, cockteasing early adopters along the way in order to keep sales high.

EDIT: dallow, HMM's megazine posted today had numbers through 12/16. Now, instead of showing last week, it's 2 weeks back. We won't know last week for 7 days, then, apparently, unless that Dave Vaughn guy spills the beans again. I also believe some week (next week?) is "skipped," for whatever reason, and in 2 weeks, HMM data will be back to its normal 5-day delay.
 
[quote name='dallow']If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.

Why are the numbers late then.
I assumed (and made an ass out of myself) that the numbers are for a week ago like normal.[/quote]
There was no HMM for Dec 23rd, probably due to the holiday. In the Dec. 30 issue they ran the Dec. 16th numbers. I don't know why they didn't "catch up' and run both the 16th and 23rd numbers, but they didn't.

But even if they had been only one week behind (as usual), the BOGO still wouldn't be a factor because the week would have closed 3 days before the BOGO started (Dec. 23rd vs. Dec 26th).

We probably won't see the results of the BOGO (if any) for another two weeks yet.
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']:shock: Is dallow the new GizmoGC?...i kid ;)[/quote]
This *is* the "Format War" thread.

Pick a side and defend it! ;)

However, even if that giz person was defending a side, the way in which they did it brought down the whole discussion at the time and was just damn annoying.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']What I find curious about Warner's involvement in BOGOs the past month (the HP movies this week, and having some selections here and there in other BOGOs) is that all signs point to them going exclusive soon. However, by becoming involved in BOGOs, they're skewing their own data, so they can't say "well, Harry Potter sold better on HD DVD," or "Blood Diamond and Enter the Dragon sold better on BD," because the people buying them (including me) did so because they were BOGOs.

Hmm. Maybe they're just gonna stay neutral for the long haul, and any "they're going HD/BD exclusive" claptrap is merely their means of marketing their own films. They've certainly gotten the attention and wallets of many knowledgeable early adopters this past month, as everyone is in a frenzy to prove that they're the most loyal to Warner. Meanwhile, they've shown disinterest in gaining valuable information via these sales.

So, either they've made up their mind (unlikely), or they're going to stay neutral for awhile, cockteasing early adopters along the way in order to keep sales high.

EDIT: dallow, HMM's megazine posted today had numbers through 12/16. Now, instead of showing last week, it's 2 weeks back. We won't know last week for 7 days, then, apparently, unless that Dave Vaughn guy spills the beans again. I also believe some week (next week?) is "skipped," for whatever reason, and in 2 weeks, HMM data will be back to its normal 5-day delay.[/QUOTE]

It makes more sense for Warner to stay neutral and sell to both sides as long as they can. One thing's for sure, anyone that says the format war is already over is clearly just blowing hot air.
As for all those 98 dollar HD players that were sold recently, I wouldn't relegate them to being non-factors yet. Let's wait until the new data comes out. In the meantime, keep supporting your side! Buy HD!
 
[quote name='doctorfaustus']It makes more sense for Warner to stay neutral and sell to both sides as long as they can.[/quote]

Not if research shows that most folks are staying out of the game precisely because there are two formats. If they find they could sell more discs overall by going to one side and ending the war (which is, let's face it, a substantial necessity to get mass acceptance), they're going to go in that direction. Expand the market, don't just pander to the minority that's already buying. I think that's more important than any "neutral" nonsense.

One thing's for sure, anyone that says the format war is already over is clearly just blowing hot air.
Click to expand...

I disagree. When is HD DVD's comeback going to come? BOGOs couldn't do it. $98 players couldn't do it. Transformers couldn't do it. Paramount couldn't do it. Bourne couldn't do it.

As I mentioned about BOGOs and reliable data, comparing the HP movies (#5 notwithstanding) this week is inappropriate, given that only one format has them on sale for cheap. But, looking at sales of 300 in the last period we got numbers for (12/10-12/16), 300 (a movie that sells so well it won't show up on BOGOs anytime soon I'm certain) had a sales ratio of 3.64:1 in favor of Blu-Ray. 'Splain that one to me, if you will.

As for all those 98 dollar HD players that were sold recently, I wouldn't relegate them to being non-factors yet.
Click to expand...

What in the blue hell are they waiting for? An engraved invitation to buy HD DVDs? C'mon, dude, you're just waiting for Godot. Let's go get an ice cream instead; my treat.

Let's wait until the new data comes out. In the meantime, keep supporting your side! Buy HD!
Click to expand...

YES! Oh, wait. Not my side. Maybe another time.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Not if research shows that most folks are staying out of the game precisely because there are two formats. If they find they could sell more discs overall by going to one side and ending the war (which is, let's face it, a substantial necessity to get mass acceptance), they're going to go in that direction. Expand the market, don't just pander to the minority that's already buying. I think that's more important than any "neutral" nonsense.[/quote]

As long as people are buying HD players Warner will continue to sell to both camps.

[quote name='mykevermin']
I disagree. When is HD DVD's comeback going to come? BOGOs couldn't do it. $98 players couldn't do it. Transformers couldn't do it. Paramount couldn't do it. Bourne couldn't do it.[/quote]
Well, think about the kind of consumer that was drawn to a 98 dollar player. They are most likely very cost-conscious and not likely to spend tons of money on media for themselves when the holidays are fast approaching. The post-holiday HD DVD BOGO can be interpreted as indication of this delay. Moreover, I don't think that all these new HD DVD player owners will easily abandon their new gadget. All, I'm saying is that the new 98 dollar HD DVD player owners have yet to flex their spending muscles.

[quote name='mykevermin']
As I mentioned about BOGOs and reliable data, comparing the HP movies (#5 notwithstanding) this week is inappropriate, given that only one format has them on sale for cheap. But, looking at sales of 300 in the last period we got numbers for (12/10-12/16), 300 (a movie that sells so well it won't show up on BOGOs anytime soon I'm certain) had a sales ratio of 3.64:1 in favor of Blu-Ray. 'Splain that one to me, if you will.[/quote]
Well, for one thing, a lot of Blu Ray owners had to buy 300, whereas a ton of HD consumers go that film for free.

[quote name='mykevermin']
What in the blue hell are they waiting for? An engraved invitation to buy HD DVDs? C'mon, dude, you're just waiting for Godot. Let's go get an ice cream instead; my treat.



YES! Oh, wait. Not my side. Maybe another time.[/QUOTE]

Well, like I speculated earlier, consumers that are attracted to a 98 dollar HD player are not likely to blow their holiday wad on media; most likely, they have other pressing financial matters to attend to during the holiday season. Give them a few weeks (maybe even less, considering the impact Amazon's post-holiday sale is having) and they might surprise you.

As for the Ice Cream? I will gladly eat some crow-flavored dairy goodness when HD DVD is completely shut down. Until then, don't count the red camp out.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']But, looking at sales of 300 in the last period we got numbers for (12/10-12/16), 300 (a movie that sells so well it won't show up on BOGOs anytime soon I'm certain) had a sales ratio of 3.64:1 in favor of Blu-Ray. 'Splain that one to me, if you will.[/quote] Um, many new Blu-Ray owners buy it, while not a single new HD DVD owner does? Because they get it for free....

Might as well track sales of Spider Man 3 to 40GB PS3 owners. That's gotta be the biggest flop in history. :)
 
Myke, do you really think that the 100k+ sub-$100 HD DVD players won't have a substantial impact? I think it's fair to assume that they weren't purchased to boost order totals to meet promo requirements or as soon-to-be historical artifacts of the Great Format War. Those things will see their share of an attach rate soon.

I agree with DoctorFaustus that this thing's going to carry on for a while.
 
[quote name='geko29']Um, many new Blu-Ray owners buy it, while not a single new HD DVD owner does? Because they get it for free....

Might as well track sales of Spider Man 3 to 40GB PS3 owners. That's gotta be the biggest flop in history. :)[/QUOTE]


Spiderman 3 has sold very well locally here. Best Buy here dedicates a whole shelving unit for it, and as of 6pm today there were only two copies in stock.
 
[quote name='Scobie']Myke, do you really think that the 100k+ sub-$100 HD DVD players won't have a substantial impact? I think it's fair to assume that they weren't purchased to boost order totals to meet promo requirements or as soon-to-be historical artifacts of the Great Format War. Those things will see their share of an attach rate soon.

I agree with DoctorFaustus that this thing's going to carry on for a while.[/QUOTE]

I haven't seen them tilt the sales in their direction yet. Not one % point. And I refuse to believe that they're all christmas gifts, and the tide will be coming "next week" or "real soon." I've read that too many times to believe it.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I haven't seen them tilt the sales in their direction yet. Not one % point. And I refuse to believe that they're all christmas gifts, and the tide will be coming "next week" or "real soon." I've read that too many times to believe it.[/QUOTE]

Just as you refuse to believe they're all Christmas gifts, I refuse to believe that there are 30-50,000 Rich Lough's out there buying two extras just 'cause they're cheap, leading to a big goose egg for an attach rate.

It'll be interesting to see what happens at least.

Shifting gears, any vis on how the pr0n industry's backing of HD DVD is working out? I was always skeptical of that having any real impact in the internet age, but it'd be interesting to know.
 
[quote name='geko29']Spanish->English Translator:

April Fool's Bitches! :)

Seriously. Today is "dia de los Inocentes", where everybody (newsmedia, and obviously, studios) try to pull one over on everybody else.[/quote]

Too bad New Line is one of the few companies that does Region coding. :cry:
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']Spiderman 3 has sold very well locally here. Best Buy here dedicates a whole shelving unit for it, and as of 6pm today there were only two copies in stock.[/quote]

...and I'm sure every single one of those went to a 40GB PS3 owner. :roll:

Unless it's your contention that nobody got an 80GB PS3, or a Sony player, or a Panasonic player, or a Pioneer player, or a Sharp player, or a Samsung player......

The point was EVERY SINGLE third gen HD DVD standalone comes with 300 inside the box. So buyers of third gen players are EXCEEDINGLY unlikely to purchase 300 at retail. Just like buyers of 40GB PS3s are rather unlikely to purchase Spider Man 3.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Too bad New Line is one of the few companies that does Region coding. :cry:[/quote]
If the release was real, it wouldn't be by New Line. Aurum is the company that was claiming to be releasing it, so it technically would be up to them.
 
[quote name='geko29']If the release was real, it wouldn't be by New Line. Aurum is the company that was claiming to be releasing it, so it technically would be up to them.[/quote]

Ahh I see, well, lets hope then.
 
[quote name='willielwgg']my opinion is that niether format will be obsolete because the other componies won't switch over (ex sony switch to hd dvd)[/QUOTE]

Perhaps - but that doesn't mean, OTOH, that UMD is a viable format.
 
Just rocked the B3G2 HD DVD sale at Best Buy today... also hit the Amazon B1G1 and picked up the BB 3-pack with Anchorman/Blades of Glory/Old School.

I started off as format neutral and then actually decided to go Blu-Ray, but my shelf is getting pretty dang red these days...

I'm really looking forward to seeing Pan's Labyrinth and Kubrick's 2001 in HD. Anybody else take advantage of the recent HD DVD deals?
 
My Will Ferrel 3 pack should be coming in the mail this week.

And ironically, they're the only 3 Will Ferrel movies I like. I'm not being a fanboy, I just don't really like any of his other movies
 
Heads up - my 10% Amazon gimmick is still working, and other users are reporting the same thing. It seems to be hit and miss (some people think if you have spent over a certain amount in the last year, it goes away), but it's worth checking if you were in on it before.
 
Mine was working this morning, which is why I didn't hesitate on this BOGO; it may e the last chance I get (plus the discount comes out before the BOGO discount!).
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Mine was working this morning, which is why I didn't hesitate on this BOGO; it may e the last chance I get (plus the discount comes out before the BOGO discount!).[/quote]

Nice. 4 movies for like what, 40$?
 
I dont care who wins in this "war. I have both formats, so go me.

I just find it hilarious when HD DUD people pay 40+bucks to import a movie blu ray owners can get for 29.99. Its just too hard not to laugh at their misfortunes.

Or the hd dud owners who brag about importing movies. Who cares?
 
I was wondering. Has anyone watched "Cathouse: The Musical" in HD over HBO HD? If so how's it look? I was hoping to bag it on HD DVD if it gets sold on the the HD formats. If not I won't buy it on DVD period.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']The only clearly-labeled HBO product I've seen has been Sopranos (but that was like fuckin' $100 for half a fuckin' season!?!?).[/QUOTE]

"Deadwood" was suppose to come out. I don't understand why "Rome" has been released nowhere on HDM.
 
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=801

Marantz has announced that they will debut their BD8002 Blu-ray disc player at CES next week. The player will utilize the acclaimed 10-bit Silicon Optix Realta chip to provide stunning 1080p pictures via the HDMI v1.3 connector. 7.1 analog-out will be available, along with support for Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master Audio. In compliance with BDA spec, the player will support Bonus View content through secondary video and audio decoders.

A slot for a SD card will be provided so that additional content can be downloaded from the Internet on a home PC and utilized in the player. No price has been announced for the player at this time.
Click to expand...

Never heard of Marantz before, but a player with a 10-bit chip and that can support DTS-Ma sounds awesome to me.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=801



Never heard of Marantz before, but a player with a 10-bit chip and that can support DTS-Ma sounds awesome to me.[/QUOTE]

Marantz makes some bad-ass stuff .

They were one of the first brands to have a home Audio CD burner .
It was like $1200.00 when it debuted .
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=801



Never heard of Marantz before, but a player with a 10-bit chip and that can support DTS-Ma sounds awesome to me.[/QUOTE]


Marantz is awesome. They make amazing front projectors, and some DVD players priced as high as $2000 (although that pretty much guarantees their Blu-ray player will be crazy expensive). Its nice to see more quality manufactures jump on Blu-ray.

http://us.marantz.com/default.asp
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']Marantz is awesome. They make amazing front projectors, and some DVD players priced as high as $2000 (although that pretty much guarantees their Blu-ray player will be crazy expensive). Its nice to see more quality manufactures jump on Blu-ray.

http://us.marantz.com/default.asp[/QUOTE]

It would be nice for this to be a combo considering how some movies ONLY have the Lossless option on HD DVD, T2 comes to mind.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=801

Never heard of Marantz before, but a player with a 10-bit chip and that can support DTS-Ma sounds awesome to me.[/quote] Marantz used to be a small to moderate sized company that made the whole gamut of equipment, from low-end shit to $6,000 DVD players and $12,000 tube amps. Now they pretty much only make highend gear and stuff towards the upper end of the mid-fi market.

They're owned by D&M holdings, so it's exceedingly likely that this will be a rebadge of the new Denon Blu-Ray player, albeit at a higher price. The specs are identical. Expect an MSRP in the $2500 neighborhood.
 
anyone know how much close encounters ended up selling in blu ray?

i remember reading a lot of super pro blu bragging about speilberg being on blu ray and this was a sign of the end for HD DVD, but i never heard anything about how many units it moved
 
[quote name='rsigley']anyone know how much close encounters ended up selling in blu ray?

i remember reading a lot of super pro blu bragging about speilberg being on blu ray and this was a sign of the end for HD DVD, but i never heard anything about how many units it moved[/QUOTE]



usually one someone is not braggin about numbers, it didnt do well
 
Catalog titles don't sell. ESPECIALLY older ones, no matter how well-respected they are. Mutiny on the Bounty sold 652 copies. Casablanca--often cited as the greatest movie of all time--was just over 1,000 (1,100 IIRC). Forbidden Planet was a horrible bomb, as were Deliverance, The Deer Hunter, Battle of the Bulge, Adventures of Robin Hood, The Dirty Dozen, Dog Day Afternoon etc etc ad infinitum. Even recent catalogs custom-tailored for the userbase (see Underworld) don't do a whole hell of a lot better, being handily trounced in first-week sales by D&D crapfests like The Condemned.

There's absolutely zero chance that CE3K has sold even 5,000 copies to date.
 
[quote name='rsigley']that sucks[/quote]
I couldn't agree more. It saddens me to no end that the HDM market as a whole doesn't seem to give a rat's ass about great films, and just bombastic special effects showcases. Now granted, I like some of those as much as anybody. But seriously, I'd give a thousand, nay a million Ultraviolets or The Wicker Mans for just one Carrie or Raging Bull.
 
Numbers are in.

David Vaughn

61-39 BD for the third week in a row.

Top 5:

The Kingdom
The Bourne Ultimatum
POTC 3
Simpsons Movie
Rush Hour 3

Top 10 SI
300 Blue Ray
Transfomrers
POTC 3
Casino Royale
Planet Earth HD DVD
The Bourne Ultimatum
300 HD DVD
Spiderman 3
Planet Earth BD
Ratatouille

Notables for the week:

Volume Down from previous 2 weeks
13 of the Top 20 are BD titles.
PE on BD outsold the HD DVD 56:44, but with very low numbers overall.
There are now 9 titles over the 6 figure mark. 5-BD and 4-HD DVD.
Click to expand...
Which week is this Geko?
The one with the HD DVD BOGO plus Best Buy sale, and no BD BOGO?
 
[quote name='geko29']Catalog titles don't sell. ESPECIALLY older ones, no matter how well-respected they are. Mutiny on the Bounty sold 652 copies. Casablanca--often cited as the greatest movie of all time--was just over 1,000 (1,100 IIRC). Forbidden Planet was a horrible bomb, as were Deliverance, The Deer Hunter, Battle of the Bulge, Adventures of Robin Hood, The Dirty Dozen, Dog Day Afternoon etc etc ad infinitum. Even recent catalogs custom-tailored for the userbase (see Underworld) don't do a whole hell of a lot better, being handily trounced in first-week sales by D&D crapfests like The Condemned.

There's absolutely zero chance that CE3K has sold even 5,000 copies to date.[/QUOTE]

It's too bad catalog titles aren't cheaper , I'd buy a shitload of them .
They are the backbone of my collection .
 
[quote name='dallow']Numbers are in.

Which week is this Geko?
The one with the HD DVD BOGO plus Best Buy sale, and no BD BOGO?[/quote] I'm not sure. It looks like it should be the week ending Dec. 30th (Kingdom came out Dec. 23rd). Not sure how that corresponds to sales. And if it is indeed Christmas week, I'm surprised volume is down so much. Well maybe I'm not. Since Women are more likely to be buying movies as gifts (for men), while the majority of people shopping on the last two days before christmas are definitely men. :)

Edit: according to the folks at AVS, this was the week of the Red Amazon BOGO and BB B2G1.
 
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