Free Radical's David Braben says you shouldn't buy used games!

Just a question for people who think Digital Distribution is anywhere close to being a reality.

How big is Bioshock? Or how big will Final Fantasy XIII be?

My guess is huge (I have no clue about the technical stuff).

How long would it take to download?

By going all digital, do you have any idea how much of the gaming population would be cut off from getting the game?

Isn't that a selling point of Blu-Ray, that it could hold more info? Isn't that just a s==tload more information to try to transfer? Can a whole game like that be store on the PS3's hard drive, if so how many of them could fit (I honestly don't know so please someone let me know).

I wouldn't think it would happen for a long long long time, and games don't seem to be getting any smaller on PS3 or 360.
 
[quote name='schuerm26']Just a question for people who think Digital Distribution is anywhere close to being a reality.[/quote]
Hi, please meet my friend Steam.

I don't think that physical game media sold at retail will ever go away, especially for console games, but digital distribution, as another purchasing option happily co-existing alongside traditional retail, is here, and in a big way.

[quote name='schuerm26']How big is Bioshock?[/quote]
I dunno, why not ask one of the thousands of people who bought and downloaded it via Steam?

About 6 gigs, by the way.

How long would it take to download?
Click to expand...
Well, not necessarily much longer than it might take to head out to a store and buy it, for some people. :p

Actually, Steam has the capability to "stream" games, downloading essential game files first, and letting you play a game before it's done downloading. Unfortunately, hardly any games use this feature.

Perhaps a more useful feature is the "preloading" system. For new games, Steam allows users to download, but not actually play, a game shortly before it's retail release date, and when the release date arrives, the already-downloaded game is instantly made available to play.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Hi, please meet my friend Steam.

I don't think that physical game media sold at retail will ever go away, especially for console games, but digital distribution, as another purchasing option happily co-existing alongside traditional retail, is here, and in a big way.


I dunno, why not ask one of the thousands of people who bought and downloaded it via Steam?

About 6 gigs, by the way.


Well, not necessarily much longer than it might take to head out to a store and buy it, for some people. :p

Actually, Steam has the capability to "stream" games, downloading essential game files first, and letting you play a game before it's done downloading. Unfortunately, hardly any games use this feature.

Perhaps a more useful feature is the "preloading" system. For new games, Steam allows users to download, but not actually play, a game shortly before it's retail release date, and when the release date arrives, the already-downloaded game is instantly made available to play.[/quote]

The thousands that bought it? Doesn't that just prove the point that it is nowhere close to being a reality for pretty much the entire market? Big games like Bioshock are million sellers and only thousands downloaded it?

Im not questioning that it will eventually be bigger but that seems a long long ways off.
 
David Braben is simply using flawed logic in his arguments here. I hear this argument all the time, and I think it's dead wrong.

Remember that MANY people who buy a brand new game do not keep it. They are willing to pay $60 for a new game because they know they can sell it in a month for $30. In their mind, they are only paying $30 for the game. Hence, the person buying the used game for $30 is basically buying a new game a month late for half the price. He is helping the industry, because if this used market was completely destroyed (something that can't really happen because of Ebay if disc based games are created), it would hurt some new game sales (as people wait for cheaper prices).

I think most of the companies are ticked that people buy a used game from Gamestop for $55, when the new is $60, and they aren't getting their cut of it. It's probably worse now with Gamestop having a virtual monopoly on used games (in stores), so they are having less sales than ever. If most of those $55 games were sold in buy 2 get 1, then it is doable.

That being said, I can see his partial argument. If I was a developer, and I saw someone buying a used game for $5 less than the new, and Gamestop is making 3x their money, while I get nothing, that would turn my stomache some. If I can get the new game for a very small percentage more than used, I'll buy new (if I'm paying $45 for a used game, I'll pay $50 for new).

But, he needs to qualify here. It's those sales that hurt the developers. If you are buying NBA 2K5 for $2 from Gamestop right now, you really aren't hurting anyone (or even $17 in a B2G1, you are helping the industry to some extent.

Plus, if that is the case, shouldn't we all just start downloading our games, as opposed to buying used? I doubt he wants that.
 
[quote name='MadFlava']hence the push for digital distribution. If publishers/developers can cut out the retail stores and make you purchase and download games onto your console for use, then there goes your used game market. I think, this is what eventually will happen once download speeds increase.[/quote]

I'll be the first to admit, I wasn't keen on DLC, but Live Marketplace is pretty sweet. I love old-school gaming and there is something cool about buying a full game while sitting on your ass, instead of driving to a store and waiting in line.

It will be a long time before we are downloading the huge games of this generation though (I need to see how far along Internet 2 is coming).
 
I don't buy used games, but I don't like people telling me what I can and can't buy, either. So I'll just not buy Free Radical's games... they suck anyway...
 
If he released games for a price people were willing to pay, a reasonable price, then people wouldn't have to buy used.

Don't give me shit about not buying used games when you release your crap for $60.
 
[quote name='Gentlegamer']If publishers try to cut out retailers, retailers will simply cut out the console manufacturer. It's a vicious circle.[/quote]

MS, Sony, and Nintendo can still all their own hardware via their own sites, though.
 
[quote name='schuerm26']The thousands that bought it? Doesn't that just prove the point that it is nowhere close to being a reality for pretty much the entire market? Big games like Bioshock are million sellers and only thousands downloaded it?[/QUOTE]
Don't take what I said literally. I was just making an extremely conservative guess. It could be tens of thousands. Hundreds, but I doubt it.

Steam sales figures are never made available to the public. However, based on some statements from Valve, and conjecture drawn from those statements, people have estimated that Valve has sold at least 1 million copies of HL2 via Steam. Valve says that they do about 25% of their total sales via Steam. That's nothing to sneeze at.

Again, digital distribution is here, and it's holding it's own.
 
Authors have dealt with this problem forever. When a library buys a book, the author and publisher get paid ONCE, yet the book can be read by any number of people! Yet, somehow, good authors can still make a living. Developers who make good games will make enough money, there's nothing to worry about.
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']If he released games for a price people were willing to pay, a reasonable price, then people wouldn't have to buy used.

Don't give me shit about not buying used games when you release your crap for $60.[/quote]

I think this summarizes my thoughts pretty well.

With the movie industry, movies are more expensive than ever. Yet, when DVDs are released for home sale, you can get them for $16-$18 on average.

The movie industry figured out that they sell more if it's priced less. It wasn't always this way, as many here can attest. The two industries are not completely comparable; movies earn money at the box office first. But I'm sure that the movie industry swore up and down in the pre-DVD era that they had to price movies the way they did in order to make a profit. And yet they still do, and more of one to boot.

The Greatest Hits/Platinum/Players Choice lines show that the video game manufacturers get this concept somewhat. I'm sure they've done the math about releasing new games at this price point, and the reason they don't is that they make more money doing it the current way. Of course, nobody yet has really released a great title (i.e. they knew it was great and would sell like hotcakes) for $20, so they don't really know for sure.
 
It's been said already but I'll say it again, they're too fucking expensive.

I'm willing to buy a new DS or PSP game when it comes out because I know I'll pay $40 at the most, with an average being much closer to $30, and pre-order prices online sometimes being as low as $25.

Not to mention that so many games are so short. I was so excited about Ultimate Spider-Man, but you can seriously beat it in 2 days, and if it wasn't for all the filler bullshit they put in, you could beat the story mode in 2 HOURS. Wouldn't it be nice of there was a minimum of hours per dollar, maybe 5 hours for every $10 (of course, excluding multiplayer and the like)?

This is one of the main reasons I have such little interest in the 360/PS3, although prices have been going down as the systems and older games age.
 
If buying used is so terrible, is renting worse or better?

When you make a game that takes 2 hours to beat, forgive me if I'd rather pay a few bucks to rent it than $60 to buy it and have it taunt me with its inadequateness.
 
^ Good point...does Blockbuster/Netflix..etc send a check regulary to the movie studios as a payment for the right to rent the movie?? As said before, auto manufacturers don't get a cut on used auto sales...I just sold my living room set..better send Broyhill a check :roll:
 
[quote name='Puffa469']Make new games $20 each and I'll never buy used again. For $60 you can kiss my ass.

Maybe publishers should do what the Automobile manufacturers did to combat used vehicle sales, develop a certified preowned program.

Instead of buying disc only, scratched up shit from Gamestop, why doesnt say... Capcom, offer to buy back games they've published at a reasonable price, then offer used games from their website, guaranteed complete, clean, scratch free, and offer a 30 day warranty or something, I'd buy my used games straight from the developer/publisher.[/quote]

Quoted for ma-fuckin' truth!

And as someone else said, if developers cut the retailers out of the equation by going totally digital, then stores will retaliate by giving up the sale of hardware. That is why you won't see Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft ever offer a game only through digital channels (besides the smaller retro and indie-type games). They don't want to run the risk of pissing off the retailers to the point where they stop selling their hardware. This very reason is why Warhawk sold for $40 over PSN. Sony had to price it close to retail to avoid causing an issue with retailers.

So as long as this dysfunctional relationship exists between console manufacturers and retailers, digital distribution is not going to solve the problem because the digital content will be priced the same, or nearly the same as the physical product.

Drop game prices to the same level as DVD and every developer would benefit.
 
[quote name='pete5883']This is part of why I avoid used games. Why would I send most of my money to retailers instead of developers/publishers? All the retailer did was take the game out of a box and put it on a shelf.[/QUOTE]

Because either way you are paying the store, not the developer. GS buys the games from the publisher, the game is then purchased (and for the maniac few, this is the point at which it should be seen as used) and then sells the new game to the customer. The developer has now received their money, the only thing sales determines is how many more are ordered and if the developer signed a buy back agreement, how many they are actually going to get stuck with. So no matter what, you are giving GS your money, the question is what percentage.

The next thing and the part that amazes me is this, David Barben has said that, even though he has done nothing, not produced another disk, not packaged it, not shipped it, or not sold it to a retailer, he deserves a kick back. Why does he deserve this? He made a game, tested it, packaged it, and sold it, for that he recieved compensation. This is where the transaction ends. Heck, Valva atleast produces new CD keys for the 5 bucks you give them to have the ability to resell your steam games. That I can justify, but David Barben has done nothing and for that, he gets nothing.
 
Probably at least 85-90% of video game consumers are average people who do not study prices of video games like people on this site do. Dare I say that the majority of the game-buying public, at least at christmas time, is gift giving soccer moms? Case in point is if one of these people sees a game at 60$ and another game at 19.99 right next to it 9 times out of 10 they will buy the 19.99 game and think, oh its cheaper, its still a video game my giftee will love it. Everyone wants cheap games, the only people willing to pay 60$ for a game are hardcore gamers who really want the game. Yes most of these people (sans the hardcore gamers) can easily get sucked into gamestop's buy more trade more play more philosophy which not only screws the developer but takes money out of the customers hands without them knowing it.

You would be surprised how easily people will pay 5$ less for that used game because they are so desperate to save that 5$ on that video game purchased for their son or daughter and to these people its a big savings, the employees also make it sound like a big savings. Its extremely easy to get people to purchase a used copy of game x even if its only marked down 2$, gamestop knows this and they take full advantage of it.

My whole point here is people want cheap games, and used games vs new games really does not matter when people want cheap games, or at least 90% of the game buying public does. NO parent out there wants to pay 60$ for their kids video game, and oftentimes they don't. If games were lower prices, say 30-40$ for the most expensive games, more people would definitely buy new, however the used game market would still exist. But then what would happen is people would get used to the 30-40$ price tag and say that that is too expensive, and they would start hunting down sources of cheaper games again, such as used games. This has been an argument since the 1980's and the used game market still prevalis because people want cheaper games, and this will always be the case, even if the price point of games changes. Since Gamestop blurs the line between used and new so much, people just think of it in terms of saving money, not in terms of used vs new, or in terms discussed here in this article.
 
i buy used games all the time,from gamestop . games are really exspensive,and when your on a budget you gotta do what you can.sometimes i will buy new games though.

if the game is only a couple bucks cheaper than the new one,then i buy the new one.but noway am i gonna pay retail for games that are a couple years old.ill just pick up a used copy
 
So we shouldn't by used games because the developers don't get profits? But they do! Let's say that I bought Trauma Center on the Wii used. Got it much cheaper than I would have new, so I saved money and was happy. But now Atlus says "Hey, we're making Trauma Center 2!" Well, I liked the first so much, I'll go and buy the second, most likely new. And there they get profit. Companies have got to realize that increases in sales from sequel to sequel will tend to show how many fans have been attained from the used market. You think Halo 3 became so popular because every person alive bought Halos 1 and 2 new? No! Many people bought it because they liked the first two, wther they bought it new or used, or rented it.

I'm not saying the used game market is completely good though. At least for developers and publishers. Games that are too short and/or not good enough to keep often head to Gamestop. If they aren't good, why should companies get a false sense of security about their games? Sega does. So many copies of the new bad Sonic games fly off the shelves, new. But head to Gamestop or whereever, and you're almost gauranteed to find the latest Sonic their used. Then whoever picks up those used copies often makes their own opinion. And I'm sure this has to be reflected in the sales of bad games. I'm sure they sell less and less each year. *not to affend fans of the series but I've grown to dislike each and every 3D iteration more and more than the last.*
 
This problem will begin to solve itself once digital distribution channels mature.
It is beginning to make more sense to purchase a title directly from the comfort of your own home- and certainly so if you are buying a cartridge/disc only from an eb.
Price, ease of transaction, guranteed to work and no worry of good being lost/broken are great things.
I buy used games when the game is no longer easy to find new, sometimes my wait is deliberate, more often because I have a backlog and don't need to buy a game 6 months after it came out, in which cases the new window has closed.

Again, the solution for this is coming, ebgames doesn't earn a dime when I buy a backlist title off VC. Companies need to ramp up so that they can regain the mid list titles that can find an audience 1-4 years after the title releases.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top