SlightlyOffTrack
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GamersGate Thread
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[quote name='nategator']A reddit mod for the SteamGameSwap wrote up some good analysis in my opinion on whether the activated keys will get revoked. Here it is for those that are in the same boat:
http://www.reddit.com/r/SteamGameSw..._in_case_it_wasnt_made_clear_be_mindful_when/[/QUOTE]
Sounds very logical that GG has literally no reason to have such power, it's stupid to think a mere reseller can do that. Furthermore, there is also no reason for Bethesda, or 2K, or any other of the publishers screwed by GG, to be wanting to do that, to convince Valve to help them share some GG insanely bad PR.
Ah well, as I said, I'm not really counting on getting the rest of that pack, I just want this embarrassing affair to be over soon.
FYI, Gamersgate doesn't have the power to revoke activated keys, or even invalidate keys provided that have not been activated yet. They can only remove games from your shelf on their website. They would have to go to the publisher and the publisher would have to agree to request that Valve invalidate keys. It's almost never done on a large scale. 2K and Bethesda aren't going to do that. Why? A couple big reasons:
And from past incidents of actual theft, why are most of those compromised key activations still on people's accounts, while some were in fact removed? It's because Steam also has a process to allow individual users to request a reset of retail CD-keys they purchased but turned out to be used. So AFAIK to get a stolen game removed, someone would have had to buy that key legitimately later, as in retail box, complain to Steam and/or the publisher, at which point the key is reset. Otherwise they just let it slide, since it's easier to write those off.
That explains why some compromised keys did get revoked, but also that it wasn't a mass action on the part of the publisher to revoke all those keys. And those were downright stolen (or close to it). This is simply a retail pricing error. There's basically zero chance they're going to do that here.
So if you were lucky enough to get an actual alphanumeric key from Gamersgate (and not simply a promise of a key in the future), then the key is valid. Even if Gamersgate decides to remove the game from your shelf, the key is still valid, because it was generated by Valve at the request of the publisher, then provided to the retailer by the publisher. GG simply distributes them, it doesn't create or revoke them.
My two cents, anyhow.
[Various edits made to expand/clarify.]
- Because GG screwed up, not them. GG owes them money, and revoking the keys from customers doesn't directly fix that problem in any way.
- Because it's horrible PR and bad business, and thus not only does it not directly solve the fact that GG owes them a lot of money, it works against them by voluntarily seeking blame that no one is currently putting upon them! Everyone is hating on GG right now, and the publishers (who have done nothing wrong) would have to like GG a whole lot to be willing to fall on their swords by asking Valve to revoke activated keys. They'd basically be saying, "Ooh, I want some of that bad PR that Gamersgate is getting!"
And from past incidents of actual theft, why are most of those compromised key activations still on people's accounts, while some were in fact removed? It's because Steam also has a process to allow individual users to request a reset of retail CD-keys they purchased but turned out to be used. So AFAIK to get a stolen game removed, someone would have had to buy that key legitimately later, as in retail box, complain to Steam and/or the publisher, at which point the key is reset. Otherwise they just let it slide, since it's easier to write those off.
That explains why some compromised keys did get revoked, but also that it wasn't a mass action on the part of the publisher to revoke all those keys. And those were downright stolen (or close to it). This is simply a retail pricing error. There's basically zero chance they're going to do that here.
So if you were lucky enough to get an actual alphanumeric key from Gamersgate (and not simply a promise of a key in the future), then the key is valid. Even if Gamersgate decides to remove the game from your shelf, the key is still valid, because it was generated by Valve at the request of the publisher, then provided to the retailer by the publisher. GG simply distributes them, it doesn't create or revoke them.
My two cents, anyhow.
[Various edits made to expand/clarify.]
http://www.reddit.com/r/SteamGameSw..._in_case_it_wasnt_made_clear_be_mindful_when/[/QUOTE]
Sounds very logical that GG has literally no reason to have such power, it's stupid to think a mere reseller can do that. Furthermore, there is also no reason for Bethesda, or 2K, or any other of the publishers screwed by GG, to be wanting to do that, to convince Valve to help them share some GG insanely bad PR.
Ah well, as I said, I'm not really counting on getting the rest of that pack, I just want this embarrassing affair to be over soon.
Conviction went back up to 6.24, or 75%
http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-BF3/battlefield-3
BF3 for 11.98, even cheaper than the gamefly sale
http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-BF3/battlefield-3
BF3 for 11.98, even cheaper than the gamefly sale
Syntax Error
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[quote name='poxi']Skyrim as a daily deal. They've got to be kidding.[/QUOTE]
Trololololol...
Splinter Cell: Conviction was still showing as $3.24 if you sort the games list by largest discount. Burned the rest of my Blue Coins on it and grabbed the game key tout de suite.
Trololololol...
Splinter Cell: Conviction was still showing as $3.24 if you sort the games list by largest discount. Burned the rest of my Blue Coins on it and grabbed the game key tout de suite.
[quote name='nategator']A reddit mod for the SteamGameSwap wrote up some good analysis in my opinion on whether the activated keys will get revoked. Here it is for those that are in the same boat:
http://www.reddit.com/r/SteamGameSw..._in_case_it_wasnt_made_clear_be_mindful_when/[/QUOTE]
It makes sense for the most part, except that I read accounts of the Dead Island Key revokings that Deep Silver did this themselves and Valve was not informed or involved. I can see it because Steam is setup to give publishers (or indie developers) controll over their keys.
If you bought an indie game and it goes on Steam you can request a key from the dev and sometimes you will get it right away so they create themselves without having to go through Steam.
Also when Tony gets those non-Steamworks Steam keys he gets them from the publisher.
Any publisher or indie developer can create Steam keys at any time for their game. It stands to reason they may have the ability to do the reverse on their own as well, however for obvious reasons this is almost never done because of the huge shitstorm it would stir up getting into the issue of digital rights and ownership on a much larger scale and no sensible publisher wants that.
I think Bethesda and 2K have way more sense than to open that can of worms but I think Gamersgate absolutely would and in fact is currently in the process of trying, but will ultimately (I hope) fail. They are that desperate. And short sighted.
Anyway, what I say and what the reddit guy says and what anyone else says, it's all just something some guy said on the internet. We won't know for sure at least until next week and quite possibly later.
[quote name='Corpekata']Looks like another error might be happening. Splinter Cell Conviction for 3.24. Not exactly a barn burner, but hey.[/QUOTE]
[quote name='shrinerr']Conviction went back up to 6.24, or 75%
http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-BF3/battlefield-3
BF3 for 11.98, even cheaper than the gamefly sale[/QUOTE]
Ridiculous. They need to take their damned site down. This continues to happen on a daily basis and if they don't get it fixed then sooner or later it will hit another high profile game and cause a lot more problems than they already have.
[quote name='Detruire']I just noticed that it's showing the "Unfortunately, we are out of serial keys. The developers have been contacted and we will supply keys as soon as they are delivered to us" message for Viking.[/QUOTE]
They are still selling it btw, at regular price of course.
Now I can't say for 100% if people will get their keys right away if they pay $14.95 for it but I would bet money on it.
Also for the people who said with the Bethesda pack keys 'out of stock' vs still being sold 'Well it was part of a pack' they don't have that excuse with Viking.
[quote name='poxi']Skyrim as a daily deal. They've got to be kidding.[/QUOTE]
Oh when we said we were out of keys we meant we ran out of keys for the people who bought it for less than what we wanted to sell it for.
And permanent doesn't mean permanent.
FYI, Gamersgate doesn't have the power to revoke activated keys, or even invalidate keys provided that have not been activated yet. They can only remove games from your shelf on their website. They would have to go to the publisher and the publisher would have to agree to request that Valve invalidate keys. It's almost never done on a large scale. 2K and Bethesda aren't going to do that. Why? A couple big reasons:
And from past incidents of actual theft, why are most of those compromised key activations still on people's accounts, while some were in fact removed? It's because Steam also has a process to allow individual users to request a reset of retail CD-keys they purchased but turned out to be used. So AFAIK to get a stolen game removed, someone would have had to buy that key legitimately later, as in retail box, complain to Steam and/or the publisher, at which point the key is reset. Otherwise they just let it slide, since it's easier to write those off.
That explains why some compromised keys did get revoked, but also that it wasn't a mass action on the part of the publisher to revoke all those keys. And those were downright stolen (or close to it). This is simply a retail pricing error. There's basically zero chance they're going to do that here.
So if you were lucky enough to get an actual alphanumeric key from Gamersgate (and not simply a promise of a key in the future), then the key is valid. Even if Gamersgate decides to remove the game from your shelf, the key is still valid, because it was generated by Valve at the request of the publisher, then provided to the retailer by the publisher. GG simply distributes them, it doesn't create or revoke them.
My two cents, anyhow.
[Various edits made to expand/clarify.]
- Because GG screwed up, not them. GG owes them money, and revoking the keys from customers doesn't directly fix that problem in any way.
- Because it's horrible PR and bad business, and thus not only does it not directly solve the fact that GG owes them a lot of money, it works against them by voluntarily seeking blame that no one is currently putting upon them! Everyone is hating on GG right now, and the publishers (who have done nothing wrong) would have to like GG a whole lot to be willing to fall on their swords by asking Valve to revoke activated keys. They'd basically be saying, "Ooh, I want some of that bad PR that Gamersgate is getting!"
And from past incidents of actual theft, why are most of those compromised key activations still on people's accounts, while some were in fact removed? It's because Steam also has a process to allow individual users to request a reset of retail CD-keys they purchased but turned out to be used. So AFAIK to get a stolen game removed, someone would have had to buy that key legitimately later, as in retail box, complain to Steam and/or the publisher, at which point the key is reset. Otherwise they just let it slide, since it's easier to write those off.
That explains why some compromised keys did get revoked, but also that it wasn't a mass action on the part of the publisher to revoke all those keys. And those were downright stolen (or close to it). This is simply a retail pricing error. There's basically zero chance they're going to do that here.
So if you were lucky enough to get an actual alphanumeric key from Gamersgate (and not simply a promise of a key in the future), then the key is valid. Even if Gamersgate decides to remove the game from your shelf, the key is still valid, because it was generated by Valve at the request of the publisher, then provided to the retailer by the publisher. GG simply distributes them, it doesn't create or revoke them.
My two cents, anyhow.
[Various edits made to expand/clarify.]
http://www.reddit.com/r/SteamGameSw..._in_case_it_wasnt_made_clear_be_mindful_when/[/QUOTE]
It makes sense for the most part, except that I read accounts of the Dead Island Key revokings that Deep Silver did this themselves and Valve was not informed or involved. I can see it because Steam is setup to give publishers (or indie developers) controll over their keys.
If you bought an indie game and it goes on Steam you can request a key from the dev and sometimes you will get it right away so they create themselves without having to go through Steam.
Also when Tony gets those non-Steamworks Steam keys he gets them from the publisher.
Any publisher or indie developer can create Steam keys at any time for their game. It stands to reason they may have the ability to do the reverse on their own as well, however for obvious reasons this is almost never done because of the huge shitstorm it would stir up getting into the issue of digital rights and ownership on a much larger scale and no sensible publisher wants that.
I think Bethesda and 2K have way more sense than to open that can of worms but I think Gamersgate absolutely would and in fact is currently in the process of trying, but will ultimately (I hope) fail. They are that desperate. And short sighted.
Anyway, what I say and what the reddit guy says and what anyone else says, it's all just something some guy said on the internet. We won't know for sure at least until next week and quite possibly later.
[quote name='Corpekata']Looks like another error might be happening. Splinter Cell Conviction for 3.24. Not exactly a barn burner, but hey.[/QUOTE]
[quote name='shrinerr']Conviction went back up to 6.24, or 75%
http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-BF3/battlefield-3
BF3 for 11.98, even cheaper than the gamefly sale[/QUOTE]
Ridiculous. They need to take their damned site down. This continues to happen on a daily basis and if they don't get it fixed then sooner or later it will hit another high profile game and cause a lot more problems than they already have.
[quote name='Detruire']I just noticed that it's showing the "Unfortunately, we are out of serial keys. The developers have been contacted and we will supply keys as soon as they are delivered to us" message for Viking.[/QUOTE]
They are still selling it btw, at regular price of course.
Now I can't say for 100% if people will get their keys right away if they pay $14.95 for it but I would bet money on it.
Also for the people who said with the Bethesda pack keys 'out of stock' vs still being sold 'Well it was part of a pack' they don't have that excuse with Viking.
[quote name='poxi']Skyrim as a daily deal. They've got to be kidding.[/QUOTE]
Oh when we said we were out of keys we meant we ran out of keys for the people who bought it for less than what we wanted to sell it for.
And permanent doesn't mean permanent.
[quote name='Syntax Error']Trololololol...
Splinter Cell: Conviction was still showing as $3.24 if you sort the games list by largest discount. Burned the rest of my Blue Coins on it and grabbed the game key tout de suite.[/QUOTE]
Clicked through too quick. Realized it's not Steam.
Splinter Cell: Conviction was still showing as $3.24 if you sort the games list by largest discount. Burned the rest of my Blue Coins on it and grabbed the game key tout de suite.[/QUOTE]
Clicked through too quick. Realized it's not Steam.
In case I do decide to chance it, is it really the case that getting the Premium service typically costs as much as getting the Premium Edition itself? And Origin-activated games on GG work pretty much the same way as the Steam-activated ones? (Meaning I'm at the mercy of actually getting a key or not)
[quote name='DarthWoo']In case I do decide to chance it, is it really the case that getting the Premium service typically costs as much as getting the Premium Edition itself? And Origin-activated games on GG work pretty much the same way as the Steam-activated ones? (Meaning I'm at the mercy of actually getting a key or not)[/QUOTE]
If something requires Origin and you get it from GG then yes you need to activate the key on Origin. This was the case with the Command and Conquer pack I have from them.
If it's an older EA game that activates on Origin but doesn't flat out require it then you should still get a download from Gamersgate if you want to do a direct download.
If something requires Origin and you get it from GG then yes you need to activate the key on Origin. This was the case with the Command and Conquer pack I have from them.
If it's an older EA game that activates on Origin but doesn't flat out require it then you should still get a download from Gamersgate if you want to do a direct download.
Syntax Error
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To be fair to GamersGate (shudder), the SC: Conviction for $3.24 is the standard edition (84% off) and the $6.25 one is the Deluxe Edition (75% off). I don't think it was a price change so much as them changing which item was featured on the main "dailies" header.
[quote name='DarthWoo']In case I do decide to chance it, is it really the case that getting the Premium service typically costs as much as getting the Premium Edition itself? And Origin-activated games on GG work pretty much the same way as the Steam-activated ones? (Meaning I'm at the mercy of actually getting a key or not)[/QUOTE]
Yes, buying premium seperately is usually more money. The premium edition of the game goes on sale more often than the service does. And yes, Origin only activated games work just like how Steam ones do.
Yes, buying premium seperately is usually more money. The premium edition of the game goes on sale more often than the service does. And yes, Origin only activated games work just like how Steam ones do.
DaiMonPaul
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What I don't understand is why they don't rig their system to automatically hide the "buy" button whenever they change the price on something. They can then take a couple of minutes to click through their price changes, make sure they applied correctly, and then click another button or two to restore the "buy" button. Or, you know, take the entire site down for five minutes every night, put up a "we're changing our sales -- please be patient!" message, and then restore the site once you've checked to make sure there are no major price errors that will bankrupt the company. I'm sure something like this isn't THAT easy to set up, but until they figure out why their system seems to mess up every day, it might be worth the added effort...
[quote name='DaiMonPaul']What I don't understand is why they don't rig their system to automatically hide the "buy" button whenever they change the price on something. They can then take a couple of minutes to click through their price changes, make sure they applied correctly, and then click another button or two to restore the "buy" button. Or, you know, take the entire site down for five minutes every night, put up a "we're changing our sales -- please be patient!" message, and then restore the site once you've checked to make sure there are no major price errors that will bankrupt the company. I'm sure something like this isn't THAT easy to set up, but until they figure out why their system seems to mess up every day, it might be worth the added effort...[/QUOTE]
Stop making sense!
Stop making sense!
PenguinJim
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[quote name='DaiMonPaul']What I don't understand is why they don't rig their system to automatically hide the "buy" button whenever they change the price on something. They can then take a couple of minutes to click through their price changes, make sure they applied correctly, and then click another button or two to restore the "buy" button. Or, you know, take the entire site down for five minutes every night, put up a "we're changing our sales -- please be patient!" message, and then restore the site once you've checked to make sure there are no major price errors that will bankrupt the company. I'm sure something like this isn't THAT easy to set up, but until they figure out why their system seems to mess up every day, it might be worth the added effort...[/QUOTE]
Stop taking away our great bargains!
Stop taking away our great bargains!
[quote name='Motoki']It makes sense for the most part, except that I read accounts of the Dead Island Key revokings that Deep Silver did this themselves and Valve was not informed or involved. I can see it because Steam is setup to give publishers (or indie developers) controll over their keys.
Any publisher or indie developer can create Steam keys at any time for their game. It stands to reason they may have the ability to do the reverse on their own as well, however for obvious reasons this is almost never done because of the huge shitstorm it would stir up getting into the issue of digital rights and ownership on a much larger scale and no sensible publisher wants that.
[/QUOTE]
After the recent WarZ fiasco on Steam, one thing I can't even once remember reading about from any source was about a key revocation. And the pubs of WarZ were being so abusive of their customers in the forums (removing posts/threads and banning the users), that I cannot imagine they wouldn't have at least attempted their power of key revocation at least once?
And if I am wrong: Then Valve need to re-think this power they give devs/pubs. WarZ showed it's just waiting to be abused.
Any publisher or indie developer can create Steam keys at any time for their game. It stands to reason they may have the ability to do the reverse on their own as well, however for obvious reasons this is almost never done because of the huge shitstorm it would stir up getting into the issue of digital rights and ownership on a much larger scale and no sensible publisher wants that.
[/QUOTE]
After the recent WarZ fiasco on Steam, one thing I can't even once remember reading about from any source was about a key revocation. And the pubs of WarZ were being so abusive of their customers in the forums (removing posts/threads and banning the users), that I cannot imagine they wouldn't have at least attempted their power of key revocation at least once?
And if I am wrong: Then Valve need to re-think this power they give devs/pubs. WarZ showed it's just waiting to be abused.
[quote name='Tolyngee']After the recent WarZ fiasco on Steam, one thing I can't even once remember reading about from any source was about a key revocation. And the pubs of WarZ were being so abusive of their customers in the forums (removing posts/threads and banning the users), that I cannot imagine they wouldn't have at least attempted their power of key revocation at least once?
And if I am wrong: Then Valve need to re-think this power they give devs/pubs. WarZ showed it's just waiting to be abused.[/QUOTE]
Well it's a bit different in that people bought WarZ from Steam. The Dead Island keys that were revoked by Deep Silver were obtained from outside of Steam.
I think a publisher can't revoke the keys if they were obtained from a store unless the store consents also. In this particular case I am thinking IF (and this is a big if) both Gamersgate and Bethesda/2K consent they could potentially be revoked.
Now obviously Gamersgate stands to lose a lot financially so it would not shock me if they would consent to this. It would shock me if the publishers do though.
As has been said, it probably will never happen by in my random internet guy with an opinion opinion I think it's at least an outside possibility and I personally won't feel safe until we get further clarification from Gamersgate of their intent. Or if that never happens, which seems likely to me since they like being obtuse, then it will probably be several weeks before I feel like those keys I did register are safe.
Of course this is always just my two cents and worth about that much or less.
And if I am wrong: Then Valve need to re-think this power they give devs/pubs. WarZ showed it's just waiting to be abused.[/QUOTE]
Well it's a bit different in that people bought WarZ from Steam. The Dead Island keys that were revoked by Deep Silver were obtained from outside of Steam.
I think a publisher can't revoke the keys if they were obtained from a store unless the store consents also. In this particular case I am thinking IF (and this is a big if) both Gamersgate and Bethesda/2K consent they could potentially be revoked.
Now obviously Gamersgate stands to lose a lot financially so it would not shock me if they would consent to this. It would shock me if the publishers do though.
As has been said, it probably will never happen by in my random internet guy with an opinion opinion I think it's at least an outside possibility and I personally won't feel safe until we get further clarification from Gamersgate of their intent. Or if that never happens, which seems likely to me since they like being obtuse, then it will probably be several weeks before I feel like those keys I did register are safe.
Of course this is always just my two cents and worth about that much or less.
Gamergate Employee: "Hey look on the bright side, at least guys are finally talking about us and our sale! This thread is almost as active as that Steam one."
Gamergate Employee #2: "You're an idiot and get back to work fixing those price errors you made again !"
Gamergate Employee #2: "You're an idiot and get back to work fixing those price errors you made again !"
asheskitty
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[quote name='soulkyo']Have you guys got your refunds from the Bethesda pack? I haven't yet, maybe because I bought it as a gift and gift it to myself. Anyone else with this same problem? I submitted a ticket yesterday.[/QUOTE]
I'd advise anyone concerned to tcheck their order history. http://www.gamersgate.com/account/orders
My second untouched Beth pack was refunded to paypal with notification. My GR:FS was stealth refunded back to blue coins (paid in blue coins). GR:FS is still on my shelf, never got keyed. Second Beth pack was removed from my shelf.
[quote name='sunasun']wow, this is making me actually play Skyrim as much as possible .[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I am making sure to put a few hours into the big games to (1) try them out figure at what price I'd pay for them if revoked, (2) see how my aging GTX 260 handles them (okay apparently, 30-60 fps @ 1920x1200 and default settings) and (3) establish usage (I wore those shoes jogging, you don't want them back).
I'd advise anyone concerned to tcheck their order history. http://www.gamersgate.com/account/orders
My second untouched Beth pack was refunded to paypal with notification. My GR:FS was stealth refunded back to blue coins (paid in blue coins). GR:FS is still on my shelf, never got keyed. Second Beth pack was removed from my shelf.
[quote name='sunasun']wow, this is making me actually play Skyrim as much as possible .[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I am making sure to put a few hours into the big games to (1) try them out figure at what price I'd pay for them if revoked, (2) see how my aging GTX 260 handles them (okay apparently, 30-60 fps @ 1920x1200 and default settings) and (3) establish usage (I wore those shoes jogging, you don't want them back).
[quote name='Motoki']Well it's a bit different in that people bought WarZ from Steam. The Dead Island keys that were revoked by Deep Silver were obtained from outside of Steam.
I think a publisher can't revoke the keys if they were obtained from a store unless the store consents also. In this particular case I am thinking IF (and this is a big if) both Gamersgate and Bethesda/2K consent they could potentially be revoked.
Now obviously Gamersgate stands to lose a lot financially so it would not shock me if they would consent to this. It would shock me if the publishers do though.
As has been said, it probably will never happen by in my random internet guy with an opinion opinion I think it's at least an outside possibility and I personally won't feel safe until we get further clarification from Gamersgate of their intent. Or if that never happens, which seems likely to me since they like being obtuse, then it will probably be several weeks before I feel like those keys I did register are safe.
Of course this is always just my two cents and worth about that much or less.[/QUOTE]
I respect your opinion, mostly because you assert it as your opinion and not fact like a lot of people do.
Some people who follow Steam events like this closely for the past several years have said there have only been 2 cases of mass key revoking, and it was due theft of some kind, never because of a price glitch, so we'll see. I'm optimistic.
I think a publisher can't revoke the keys if they were obtained from a store unless the store consents also. In this particular case I am thinking IF (and this is a big if) both Gamersgate and Bethesda/2K consent they could potentially be revoked.
Now obviously Gamersgate stands to lose a lot financially so it would not shock me if they would consent to this. It would shock me if the publishers do though.
As has been said, it probably will never happen by in my random internet guy with an opinion opinion I think it's at least an outside possibility and I personally won't feel safe until we get further clarification from Gamersgate of their intent. Or if that never happens, which seems likely to me since they like being obtuse, then it will probably be several weeks before I feel like those keys I did register are safe.
Of course this is always just my two cents and worth about that much or less.[/QUOTE]
I respect your opinion, mostly because you assert it as your opinion and not fact like a lot of people do.
Some people who follow Steam events like this closely for the past several years have said there have only been 2 cases of mass key revoking, and it was due theft of some kind, never because of a price glitch, so we'll see. I'm optimistic.
[quote name='Motoki']I can see it because Steam is setup to give publishers (or indie developers) controll over their keys.
Any publisher or indie developer can create Steam keys at any time for their game. It stands to reason they may have the ability to do the reverse on their own as well
[/QUOTE]
[quote name='Motoki']Well it's a bit different in that people bought WarZ from Steam. The Dead Island keys that were revoked by Deep Silver were obtained from outside of Steam.[/QUOTE]
What difference does place of purchase matter if (by your own words) the dev/pub have power to revoke the keys they create?
Regardless of however you're about to clarify what you are saying, the fact is Valve's involved, and had a say in their contracts of who handles what. Valve's not allowing their DRM to be used without compensation.
Since Valve was compensated for my purchase regardless, I don't see how Valve can just wash their hands of this if it's abused.
If you don't agree, I can guarantee you Valve's considering their legal options against the devs/pubs of WarZ.
My point still stands: I think either way Valve does have a final say on revocations. I never heard about a Warz revocation, and I can assure you the devs of that game would have tried it at least once, if they had that power.
It suggests they don't have that power without Valve's involvement. Since Valve gets a cut of any sale since they're the DRM, it stands to reason that Valve hasn't given anyone that absolute power.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. For this reason alone, I doubt Valve has done this. They're already considering their options against WarZ thanks to their legalese in their contracts.
WarZ may have slipped a fast one by them, but Valve's contracts I assure you protected themselves. How else was Valve alone capable of just revoking the keys and refunding the purchases? The dev certainly wasn't thrilled about that since they were unwilling to entertain refunds, so Valve mostly took that upon themselves.
And again: Steam is the DRM. Valve gets something out of every sale of a Steam key, regardless of where it was purchased. You cannot convince me they have no say, as they profited from the sale, so cannot just wash their hands of fraud by the dev/pub.
I have heard (which may be inaccurate) Valve will lock accounts if fraud's involved. For this reason alone, I'd be very careful of going to your payment processor about reversing your payment to GG until you are absolutely certain of GG's and the pub's intentions and solutions.
As has been said, GG can't be idle and just wait this out if the pub (or Valve) stall on a decision. GG directly took the money, they have to expect people will protect themselves, and the purchaser may have limited time to make this decision. You'd hope all involved realize and understand this.
But, admittedly, we're getting ahead of ourselves 'til GG's next statement on the matter, ASSUMING it comes in a timely matter. As said already, next week is already two weeks since the Bethesda bundle issue.
Any publisher or indie developer can create Steam keys at any time for their game. It stands to reason they may have the ability to do the reverse on their own as well
[/QUOTE]
[quote name='Motoki']Well it's a bit different in that people bought WarZ from Steam. The Dead Island keys that were revoked by Deep Silver were obtained from outside of Steam.[/QUOTE]
What difference does place of purchase matter if (by your own words) the dev/pub have power to revoke the keys they create?
Regardless of however you're about to clarify what you are saying, the fact is Valve's involved, and had a say in their contracts of who handles what. Valve's not allowing their DRM to be used without compensation.
Since Valve was compensated for my purchase regardless, I don't see how Valve can just wash their hands of this if it's abused.
If you don't agree, I can guarantee you Valve's considering their legal options against the devs/pubs of WarZ.
My point still stands: I think either way Valve does have a final say on revocations. I never heard about a Warz revocation, and I can assure you the devs of that game would have tried it at least once, if they had that power.
It suggests they don't have that power without Valve's involvement. Since Valve gets a cut of any sale since they're the DRM, it stands to reason that Valve hasn't given anyone that absolute power.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. For this reason alone, I doubt Valve has done this. They're already considering their options against WarZ thanks to their legalese in their contracts.
WarZ may have slipped a fast one by them, but Valve's contracts I assure you protected themselves. How else was Valve alone capable of just revoking the keys and refunding the purchases? The dev certainly wasn't thrilled about that since they were unwilling to entertain refunds, so Valve mostly took that upon themselves.
And again: Steam is the DRM. Valve gets something out of every sale of a Steam key, regardless of where it was purchased. You cannot convince me they have no say, as they profited from the sale, so cannot just wash their hands of fraud by the dev/pub.
I have heard (which may be inaccurate) Valve will lock accounts if fraud's involved. For this reason alone, I'd be very careful of going to your payment processor about reversing your payment to GG until you are absolutely certain of GG's and the pub's intentions and solutions.
As has been said, GG can't be idle and just wait this out if the pub (or Valve) stall on a decision. GG directly took the money, they have to expect people will protect themselves, and the purchaser may have limited time to make this decision. You'd hope all involved realize and understand this.
But, admittedly, we're getting ahead of ourselves 'til GG's next statement on the matter, ASSUMING it comes in a timely matter. As said already, next week is already two weeks since the Bethesda bundle issue.
deviousnaraku
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[quote name='soulkyo']Have you guys got your refunds from the Bethesda pack? I haven't yet, maybe because I bought it as a gift and gift it to myself. Anyone else with this same problem? I submitted a ticket yesterday.[/QUOTE]
I got the refund email from Paypal and GG the first day they went out. Pretty sure I was in the first batch since I also applied the iamaneldergeek coupon to save an additional buck ~ lol. Last night the reverse charges (including the foreign exchange fee) showed up on my CC.
I bought it as a gift and gifted it to myself too. I still have the Bethesda collection and all keys except Fallout 3 and Hunted which weren't available.
I got the refund email from Paypal and GG the first day they went out. Pretty sure I was in the first batch since I also applied the iamaneldergeek coupon to save an additional buck ~ lol. Last night the reverse charges (including the foreign exchange fee) showed up on my CC.
I bought it as a gift and gifted it to myself too. I still have the Bethesda collection and all keys except Fallout 3 and Hunted which weren't available.
My biggest issue with being in limbo right now is that what I intended to buy is/has been on sale at other places in the meantime.
If they revoke the keys and give me my money back, all is even. (Except that GG sure got a nice loan of cash from their customers for a few weeks. If that's in an interest-bearing acct, they made money off their mistake.)
But by the time I know if my key's being revoked, the sales are most likely over. Which means if I really wanted that game, whoever I buy it from now (and maybe even the pub) are profiting even more from it.
Last word: Let me just say that if everything's revoked, and everyone gets their money back, but the sales are now over... let's just say it's crossed my mind that it's a sneaky way for the digital distributors and pubs to circumvent the what's being bought during the holiday sales.
Want to limit the amount of sales of Dishonored at 50% off? Sell a bunch "mistakenly"... then decide once the sales are all over, to revoke and refund.
If you think this impossible, Amazon has been well known in the past to be accused of selling pre-orders at a certain price, gauge market value off of that... then cancel all these orders, and raise the price. It's not without precedent.
One solution to this though would be for GG/pubs to offer you the game at the correct holiday sale price later on when the holidays are already over. I'm sure this is an option already being considered.
And since this is only my second post: Let me just say that GG still having pricing mistakes after both of these fiascos have occurred is just... unbelievable. I hope the pubs take GG's inability to correct the problem promptly into account when dealing with GG in the future.
Otherwise this won't be the last time it occurs.
If they revoke the keys and give me my money back, all is even. (Except that GG sure got a nice loan of cash from their customers for a few weeks. If that's in an interest-bearing acct, they made money off their mistake.)
But by the time I know if my key's being revoked, the sales are most likely over. Which means if I really wanted that game, whoever I buy it from now (and maybe even the pub) are profiting even more from it.
Last word: Let me just say that if everything's revoked, and everyone gets their money back, but the sales are now over... let's just say it's crossed my mind that it's a sneaky way for the digital distributors and pubs to circumvent the what's being bought during the holiday sales.
Want to limit the amount of sales of Dishonored at 50% off? Sell a bunch "mistakenly"... then decide once the sales are all over, to revoke and refund.
If you think this impossible, Amazon has been well known in the past to be accused of selling pre-orders at a certain price, gauge market value off of that... then cancel all these orders, and raise the price. It's not without precedent.
One solution to this though would be for GG/pubs to offer you the game at the correct holiday sale price later on when the holidays are already over. I'm sure this is an option already being considered.
And since this is only my second post: Let me just say that GG still having pricing mistakes after both of these fiascos have occurred is just... unbelievable. I hope the pubs take GG's inability to correct the problem promptly into account when dealing with GG in the future.
Otherwise this won't be the last time it occurs.
[quote name='deviousnaraku']I got the refund email from Paypal and GG the first day they went out. Pretty sure I was in the first batch since I also applied the iamaneldergeek coupon to save an additional buck ~ lol. Last night the reverse charges (including the foreign exchange fee) showed up on my CC.
I bought it as a gift and gifted it to myself too. I still have the Bethesda collection and all keys except Fallout 3 and Hunted which weren't available.[/QUOTE]
Not that you're at fault in any of this, but keeping the keys while getting a refund is potentially bad for GG, assuming the keys are never revoked.
If that's not a mistake on GG's part, it makes you wonder if this really could be a Going Out of Business sale.
I bought it as a gift and gifted it to myself too. I still have the Bethesda collection and all keys except Fallout 3 and Hunted which weren't available.[/QUOTE]
Not that you're at fault in any of this, but keeping the keys while getting a refund is potentially bad for GG, assuming the keys are never revoked.
If that's not a mistake on GG's part, it makes you wonder if this really could be a Going Out of Business sale.
So I'm also posting a report.
Bought two Beth packs. Didn't try to buy Borderlands 2.
First: 10/11, haven't redeemed only Fallout 3, because I've got it from summer sale.
Second: 0/11, untouched, since it took me ~5h to place order and grab those 10 keys.
Level 4 GG account. No e-mail about refund. No refund on PayPal account. The games are still in the shelf.
Bought two Beth packs. Didn't try to buy Borderlands 2.
First: 10/11, haven't redeemed only Fallout 3, because I've got it from summer sale.
Second: 0/11, untouched, since it took me ~5h to place order and grab those 10 keys.
Level 4 GG account. No e-mail about refund. No refund on PayPal account. The games are still in the shelf.
[quote name='poxi']Skyrim as a daily deal. They've got to be kidding.[/QUOTE]
Apparently, today they care to warn you that you won't get any keys right way, yesterday it seems they didn't:
[quote name='Tolyngee']
I have heard (which may be inaccurate) Valve will lock accounts if fraud's involved. For this reason alone, I'd be very careful of going to your payment processor about reversing your payment to GG until you are absolutely certain of GG's and the pub's intentions and solutions.
[/QUOTE]
Everyone has heard that, but it might apply only to stuff bought off Valve, I mean blocking the entire account. Other than that, you gotta ask yourself, if you get your games removed, or keys revoked, but do not receive any kind of monetary refund (blue coins my ass) what kind of fraud are you committing in this case??
Apparently, today they care to warn you that you won't get any keys right way, yesterday it seems they didn't:
http://www.reddit.com/r/GameDeals/comments/15moog/psa_gamersgate_will_not_provide_serial_keys_for/
[quote name='Tolyngee']
I have heard (which may be inaccurate) Valve will lock accounts if fraud's involved. For this reason alone, I'd be very careful of going to your payment processor about reversing your payment to GG until you are absolutely certain of GG's and the pub's intentions and solutions.
[/QUOTE]
Everyone has heard that, but it might apply only to stuff bought off Valve, I mean blocking the entire account. Other than that, you gotta ask yourself, if you get your games removed, or keys revoked, but do not receive any kind of monetary refund (blue coins my ass) what kind of fraud are you committing in this case??
I bought 2 packs in one order, without any discount. Didn't try to get Borderlands 2.
I redeemed only Skyrim and NV in each of them (fml, didn't want to bother with all their traffic to redeem more stuff).
Nothing got cancelled yet. I'm being optimistic and I hope they'll give me the rest of the serials too eventually... But I kinda doubt that.
I'll get really screwed up if they'll revoke the keys. I sold one of the Skyrim keys.
I redeemed only Skyrim and NV in each of them (fml, didn't want to bother with all their traffic to redeem more stuff).
Nothing got cancelled yet. I'm being optimistic and I hope they'll give me the rest of the serials too eventually... But I kinda doubt that.
I'll get really screwed up if they'll revoke the keys. I sold one of the Skyrim keys.
[quote name='DonRamon']Apparently, today they care to warn you that you won't get any keys right way, yesterday it seems they didn't:
[/QUOTE]
I bought a Bethesda bundle, but made no attempt to try and get any serials as I thought it was a mistake that would be refunded.
After it being announced that they'd get keys in January (that my order apparently would be fulfilled, thus I will eventually get keys), I decided to check my account.
I was able to get a Skyrim key, but only a Skyrim key.
So, my experience is, they do have Skyrim keys available and are giving them out to all, EVEN for those that bought the Bethesda Pack a week ago.
Possibly no longer the case today, but was still the case even after everyone who bought the Bethesda Pack had the opportunity to redeem their Skyrim serials.
[/QUOTE]
I bought a Bethesda bundle, but made no attempt to try and get any serials as I thought it was a mistake that would be refunded.
After it being announced that they'd get keys in January (that my order apparently would be fulfilled, thus I will eventually get keys), I decided to check my account.
I was able to get a Skyrim key, but only a Skyrim key.
So, my experience is, they do have Skyrim keys available and are giving them out to all, EVEN for those that bought the Bethesda Pack a week ago.
Possibly no longer the case today, but was still the case even after everyone who bought the Bethesda Pack had the opportunity to redeem their Skyrim serials.
[quote name='Tolyngee']I bought a Bethesda bundle, but made no attempt to try and get any serials as I thought it was a mistake that would be refunded.
After it being announced that they'd get keys in January (that my order apparently would be fulfilled, thus I will eventually get keys), I decided to check my account.
I was able to get a Skyrim key, but only a Skyrim key.
So, my experience is, they do have Skyrim keys available and are giving them out to all, EVEN for those that bought the Bethesda Pack a week ago.
Possibly no longer the case today, but was still the case even after everyone who bought the Bethesda Pack had the opportunity to redeem their Skyrim serials.[/QUOTE]
Huh.
That's the first I heard of them still giving out Skyrim serials to Beth bundle customers. I noticed a couple of days ago people were able to get more BL2 serials after the cutoff but that only lasted about an hour. Did you click the get serial button right after the January tweet, or a few days after that?
After it being announced that they'd get keys in January (that my order apparently would be fulfilled, thus I will eventually get keys), I decided to check my account.
I was able to get a Skyrim key, but only a Skyrim key.
So, my experience is, they do have Skyrim keys available and are giving them out to all, EVEN for those that bought the Bethesda Pack a week ago.
Possibly no longer the case today, but was still the case even after everyone who bought the Bethesda Pack had the opportunity to redeem their Skyrim serials.[/QUOTE]
Huh.
That's the first I heard of them still giving out Skyrim serials to Beth bundle customers. I noticed a couple of days ago people were able to get more BL2 serials after the cutoff but that only lasted about an hour. Did you click the get serial button right after the January tweet, or a few days after that?
[quote name='asheskitty']I'd advise anyone concerned to tcheck their order history. http://www.gamersgate.com/account/orders
My second untouched Beth pack was refunded to paypal with notification. My GR:FS was stealth refunded back to blue coins (paid in blue coins). GR:FS is still on my shelf, never got keyed. Second Beth pack was removed from my shelf.
Yeah, I am making sure to put a few hours into the big games to (1) try them out figure at what price I'd pay for them if revoked, (2) see how my aging GTX 260 handles them (okay apparently, 30-60 fps @ 1920x1200 and default settings) and (3) establish usage (I wore those shoes jogging, you don't want them back).[/QUOTE]
Upon checking that, I see that I got two orders of the Bethesda bundle to go through. They've been cancelled since then, but I never got an e-mail to pay for them. I figured none ever went through. Weird. My BL2 purchase is still "completed" although the games disappeared from my shelf. I contacted them about a refund yesterday and hope to hear from them soon...
My second untouched Beth pack was refunded to paypal with notification. My GR:FS was stealth refunded back to blue coins (paid in blue coins). GR:FS is still on my shelf, never got keyed. Second Beth pack was removed from my shelf.
Yeah, I am making sure to put a few hours into the big games to (1) try them out figure at what price I'd pay for them if revoked, (2) see how my aging GTX 260 handles them (okay apparently, 30-60 fps @ 1920x1200 and default settings) and (3) establish usage (I wore those shoes jogging, you don't want them back).[/QUOTE]
Upon checking that, I see that I got two orders of the Bethesda bundle to go through. They've been cancelled since then, but I never got an e-mail to pay for them. I figured none ever went through. Weird. My BL2 purchase is still "completed" although the games disappeared from my shelf. I contacted them about a refund yesterday and hope to hear from them soon...
[quote name='nategator']Huh.
That's the first I heard of them still giving out Skyrim serials to Beth bundle customers. I noticed a couple of days ago people were able to get more BL2 serials after the cutoff but that only lasted about an hour. Did you click the get serial button right after the January tweet, or a few days after that?[/QUOTE]
A few days. Not even interested in Skyrim, but since it was part of the bundle, I figured I'd just go ahead and check for serials for every game.
So, I wasn't in any hurry to find it, so no, I'm positive I didn't even bother checking "right after" the "we'll get them in Jan" announcement. I honestly pretty much just reluctantly stumbled upon it because I thought I'd bother checking all of my serials.
But I went ahead and redeemed it on Steam. (I've never played any of the Oblivion games, so can't say I'm even interested.) But since I wasn't sure if having redeemed serials from the Pack might make a difference, I went ahead and redeemed it.
And, for the record, regardless of what GG ends up doing, I feel I did nothing wrong. When I bought it I waited for their announcement of "keys in Jan" before I even attempted to see if I had been granted serials at all, never mind redeeming.
But yes, I was fairly surprised to find Skyrim. Not only because it's a popular game (I know somehow who apparently plays it like 7 hours a day) so thought everyone would want it over being popular, but also because it's one of the higher-valued keys in the Pack for resell value, exception perhaps being Dishonored.
So, you'd think everyone bothered getting the serials that bought the Pack, based on that alone? Which leads me to think that maybe they just have plenty of Skyrim keys?
That's the first I heard of them still giving out Skyrim serials to Beth bundle customers. I noticed a couple of days ago people were able to get more BL2 serials after the cutoff but that only lasted about an hour. Did you click the get serial button right after the January tweet, or a few days after that?[/QUOTE]
A few days. Not even interested in Skyrim, but since it was part of the bundle, I figured I'd just go ahead and check for serials for every game.
So, I wasn't in any hurry to find it, so no, I'm positive I didn't even bother checking "right after" the "we'll get them in Jan" announcement. I honestly pretty much just reluctantly stumbled upon it because I thought I'd bother checking all of my serials.
But I went ahead and redeemed it on Steam. (I've never played any of the Oblivion games, so can't say I'm even interested.) But since I wasn't sure if having redeemed serials from the Pack might make a difference, I went ahead and redeemed it.
And, for the record, regardless of what GG ends up doing, I feel I did nothing wrong. When I bought it I waited for their announcement of "keys in Jan" before I even attempted to see if I had been granted serials at all, never mind redeeming.
But yes, I was fairly surprised to find Skyrim. Not only because it's a popular game (I know somehow who apparently plays it like 7 hours a day) so thought everyone would want it over being popular, but also because it's one of the higher-valued keys in the Pack for resell value, exception perhaps being Dishonored.
So, you'd think everyone bothered getting the serials that bought the Pack, based on that alone? Which leads me to think that maybe they just have plenty of Skyrim keys?
pizzaflavoredpudding
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At least some of you are able to get a refund. Borderlands 2 - 4 pack was removed from my shelf, but still no notification of any sort of a refund.
[quote name='soulkyo']Have you guys got your refunds from the Bethesda pack? I haven't yet, maybe because I bought it as a gift and gift it to myself. Anyone else with this same problem? I submitted a ticket yesterday.[/QUOTE]
No, I have yet to hear ANYTHING regarding an actual refund, aside from the first e-mail notification about pulling the bundles. I used Moneybookers, as paypal wasn't allowing my payment through, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it. I submitted a ticket a day or two ago, but haven't heard anything back from that either, aside from the autogenerated "we got your ticket."
Very frustrating.
No, I have yet to hear ANYTHING regarding an actual refund, aside from the first e-mail notification about pulling the bundles. I used Moneybookers, as paypal wasn't allowing my payment through, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it. I submitted a ticket a day or two ago, but haven't heard anything back from that either, aside from the autogenerated "we got your ticket."
Very frustrating.
asheskitty
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[quote name='INCyr']No, I have yet to hear ANYTHING regarding an actual refund, aside from the first e-mail notification about pulling the bundles. I used Moneybookers, as paypal wasn't allowing my payment through, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it. I submitted a ticket a day or two ago, but haven't heard anything back from that either, aside from the autogenerated "we got your ticket."
Very frustrating.[/QUOTE]
Check http://www.gamersgate.com/account/orders
Very frustrating.[/QUOTE]
Check http://www.gamersgate.com/account/orders
[quote name='asheskitty']Check http://www.gamersgate.com/account/orders[/QUOTE]
What am I checking there? I've looked at my orders, the one with the Bethesda Packs is listed as "Canceled" - no other information in the order. (In fact, I had a bunch of orders that had gone through, but I only paid for one and canceled all the rest. They all now say canceled and are pretty indistinguishable.) Or am I to take it from that that I'm NOT likely to get a refund and have to issue a dispute with my credit card company? Because I really would rather NOT do that unless I absolutely have to.
What am I checking there? I've looked at my orders, the one with the Bethesda Packs is listed as "Canceled" - no other information in the order. (In fact, I had a bunch of orders that had gone through, but I only paid for one and canceled all the rest. They all now say canceled and are pretty indistinguishable.) Or am I to take it from that that I'm NOT likely to get a refund and have to issue a dispute with my credit card company? Because I really would rather NOT do that unless I absolutely have to.
[quote name='asheskitty']Check http://www.gamersgate.com/account/orders[/QUOTE]
I've checked it and my order appears as completed but I haven't been refunded yet.
I've checked it and my order appears as completed but I haven't been refunded yet.
Idiotekque
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[quote name='poxi']Level 4 GG account. No e-mail about refund. No refund on PayPal account. The games are still in the shelf.[/QUOTE]
See, if you were level 5...
See, if you were level 5...
asheskitty
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[quote name='INCyr']What am I checking there? I've looked at my orders, the one with the Bethesda Packs is listed as "Canceled" - no other information in the order. (In fact, I had a bunch of orders that had gone through, but I only paid for one and canceled all the rest. They all now say canceled and are pretty indistinguishable.) Or am I to take it from that that I'm NOT likely to get a refund and have to issue a dispute with my credit card company? Because I really would rather NOT do that unless I absolutely have to.[/QUOTE]
Okay, so yours do say canceled. Of my competed/paid order two were canceled. One to paypal with notification, one back to blue coins without notification. Thus in my experience, if it says canceled it was refunded. I'd be interesting to hear of contrary experience. I know nothing about moneybookers.
Okay, so yours do say canceled. Of my competed/paid order two were canceled. One to paypal with notification, one back to blue coins without notification. Thus in my experience, if it says canceled it was refunded. I'd be interesting to hear of contrary experience. I know nothing about moneybookers.
[quote name='asheskitty']Okay, so yours do say canceled. Of my competed/paid order two were canceled. One to paypal with notification, one back to blue coins without notification. Thus in my experience, if it says canceled it was refunded. I'd be interesting to hear of contrary experience. I know nothing about moneybookers.[/QUOTE]
So if it shows as Completed, it is yet to be refunded, right? At least that's what I understand
So if it shows as Completed, it is yet to be refunded, right? At least that's what I understand
[quote name='asheskitty']Okay, so yours do say canceled. Of my competed/paid order two were canceled. One to paypal with notification, one back to blue coins without notification. Thus in my experience, if it says canceled it was refunded. I'd be interesting to hear of contrary experience. I know nothing about moneybookers.[/QUOTE]
Well, I haven't received any other e-mails regarding the refund, but upon checking my account today, it appears that my refund has been applied. So I guess I'm good as far as that goes. Still could use MUCH better communication, in my opinion.
Well, I haven't received any other e-mails regarding the refund, but upon checking my account today, it appears that my refund has been applied. So I guess I'm good as far as that goes. Still could use MUCH better communication, in my opinion.
asheskitty
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[quote name='INCyr']Well, I haven't received any other e-mails regarding the refund, but upon checking my account today, it appears that my refund has been applied. So I guess I'm good as far as that goes. Still could use MUCH better communication, in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
I agree. Order history is how I found about my stealth forced-refund on GR:FS.
[quote name='soulkyo']So if it shows as Completed, it is yet to be refunded, right? At least that's what I understand[/QUOTE]
Seems that way in my experience.
I agree. Order history is how I found about my stealth forced-refund on GR:FS.
[quote name='soulkyo']So if it shows as Completed, it is yet to be refunded, right? At least that's what I understand
[/QUOTE]Seems that way in my experience.
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