GCN/Revolution E3 Game Announcement Thread

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[quote name='Grave_Addiction']So basically you suggest Nintendo should blackmail other companies.[/QUOTE]

It's only slightly different from the "develop for us and we'll charge you considerably less in licensing fees" approach that Sony employed with the PSX. They're both methods of enticing third parties, but Nintendo's approach feature product more prominently while relegating raw $$ to the background.
 
[quote name='MorPhiend']"When you turn on Revolution and see the graphics, you will say, 'Wow...:drool: '."

- Satoru Iwata (Nintendo Pre-E3 Press Conference 2005)[/QUOTE]

"Wow, you'd think I'd know better by now but noooo! Hornswoggled again."
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']Nintendo was trying to push $20 NES games that were on a GBA cart this past year. Would we have any doubt that Nintendo would continue to try to milk these games for all they're worth?

I wouldn't be opposed to having a monthly charge for the All-Access, though. They could charge $5-$10 a month and you could download something like 10-20 games a month. But if you ever cancel your membership, you will still get to keep all the games you've downloaded.

I think that would be more attractive to us gamers rather than having to pay $5 for a Castlevania rom.[/QUOTE]

While I think Nintendo has an interesting idea with downloadable old games, I think someone else came up with that idea a long time ago. Now where was it...oh yes, THE INTERNET! Nintendo can't honostly believe that this will be anything more than an added feature if they charge for it, as roms for anything before the current gen can be easily found all over the place (not that I'm endorsing emulation, just stating a fact). Why would someone pay to download an old SNES or N64 game when an emulator/rom combo on a PC can play them just as well. I'll buy the Revolution no matter what, as it is the only system that will have Nintendo first and second party games, but I REALLY hope this feature isn't supposed to be some sort of selling point.
 
I agree with your point on the Micro........I love the design of the GBA SP....now if they'd made that a little thinner.....

Then again...I haven't touched my GBA SP in months (love my PSP)......though I will bring it out for some play next week....

YAY ...WARIOWARE TWISTED.
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']You're probably right. I was thinking what would be best for the consumer, but we all know that's a second thought.

I just hope Nintendo doesn't think they can get away with selling games at $5 a pop.[/QUOTE]

I hope you meant "More than $5 a pop." You can't even get these games used consistently under $5 unless they were complete crap, which is the type of game that probably won't be made available through this method.
 
[quote name='Chris in Cali']I'm sorry, but the screens I've seen of the PS3, and Xbox 360 games do not look impressive to me at all. I'm so unimpressed with them that I don't care that we didn't see any Revolution screens, it's like Nintendo didn't even need to show it because the PS3/Xbox360 screens look like this gen to me. I saw one screen that looked slightly better than this gen, and it was a Killzone 2 screen for the PS3, and even that only looked like a PC game, not some mega "cell processer" or some bullshit like that. Why should I be paying $300-$400 for PS3/Xbox360, IMO they haven't shown anything substancial either. Not to mention the Xbox only has limited backwards compatiblity, fuck that shit.[/QUOTE]

ok ok ok wait a minute let me get this straight your saying that the kill zone 2 demo looked like a pc game ? plz let me know which one sure isnt doom 3 or Half Life 2 and those are the top games right now , and the only other game that comes to mind is unreal 2007 and gear of war and thats slated for next gen systems also. now if the killzone 2 video was actual in-game footage ( still skeptical ) there is no pc game that looks like that ,it looks like a rendered cut scene . Now I dunno about you but the best looking game i have seen on xbox was splinter cell 3 and that cannot compete with Half life 2 or Doom 3 sorry. Not trying to start in argument but I think that comment was a little naive .

BAck to topic , wish they did show something on the revolution controller . Let me ask this question is every one impressed by the fact that you could download old nintendo games , do u think this would be a main selling point for the system that would actually sell more revo ? Im 50/50 on that one. Ofcourse ill still get it why not right I mean hello who cares if its not as powerful as the other 2 . your buying it cause you know your gonna get alot of first party software that will not dissapoint you. shit thats why I bought the Gamecube , first party software is sex-cellent. :lol:
 
[quote name='epobirs']"Wow, you'd think I'd know better by now but noooo! Hornswoggled again."[/QUOTE]

Maybe they put Yamauchi's brain into Iwata.....or he's a clone.

Hey if the EMPEROR can do it......
 
[quote name='Chris in Cali']How can anyone bash the Revolution? First of all, we know very little about it. Second, the things that we do know are all good: super small, 512 MB internal flash memory, wireless controllers, Backwards compatible with GC, Wi-Fi enabled, Online library of past Nintendo games, Online titles at launch (Smash Bros, FF:CC).[/QUOTE]

Because all of that isn't that impressive.
512MB internal flash memory? 360 has a 20GB internal/removable memory.

Sounds like with the Revolution Nintendo is setting themselves up to be 3rd place again because all the stuff they mentioned just reminds me of the GC.
 
[quote name='Admiral Ackbar']I'm sorry, but that GBA Micro may sell well but it seems useless to me.

I can already fit the GBA Sp in my pocket. It's clamshell will protect the screen unlike with the Micro. It offers no new features. I can't tell either but if the Micro screen is smaller that's a definite NONO. Of course it could be bigger, but then it wouldn't be micro.

Finally, I have big hands, and it's hard enough playing on the GBA Sp. I dunno how I'll be able to use the GBA-M for long periods without cramping up.[/QUOTE]

You are right on eevything and the screen is smaller (2in). I don't until why you posted that here through.
 
I only have one GBA. I held off on the GBASP because I knew that A.) I liked the landscape design, B.) there would eventually be one last carnation of the GBA and C.) such a device would allow me to not only get the newest design, but also get an SP cheaper (if I decide I want one).


This was a welcome anouncement to me.
 
The Zelda game now looks a little weird.

And I saw sailing... I know how much everyone loved the sailing in WW. :)
 
[quote name='zewone']Because all of that isn't that impressive.
512MB internal flash memory? 360 has a 20GB internal/removable memory.
[/QUOTE]

you mean 360 has a 20GB removable hard drive for storage. they don't make memory that large yet.

i figure the 512MB flash memory might be used to temporarily store the 'downloadable' nintendo games.
 
A couple of things I am thinking about....

I am just watching the E3 conference.

they touced on lower development costs. That can come from a few approaches but what about allowing companies to bring new franchises in any previous format? I mean say they want to drop a new 8 bit or 16 bit game they can. Obviously those development costs are lower than current gena nd with new faster computers its got to be even easier than it was 10 years ago.

Also say they want to bring a lot of their (Nintendo's) new franchises up to date. The downloadable content will allow the users to catch up before teh enw game comes out...

Just a few ideas....

On top of that they expressed in the first 10 minutes that they are only showing a little bit of what the revolution has to offer. It could be smoke they are aiming at my ass with but I still tend to think that its got more to offer.
 
[quote name='Snake2715']

Look this thread came out later than the other threads. Its the most recent press conference and yes its almost double the size of the PS3 thread already.
[/QUOTE]

well its because every one was trying to watch the streaming video coverage :p
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']So basically you suggest Nintendo should blackmail other companies.[/QUOTE]

How is that blackmail? It's a business arrangement. "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours."
 
[quote name='David85']The Zelda game now looks a little weird.

And I saw sailing... I know how much everyone loved the sailing in WW. :)[/QUOTE]

Cripes! Why don't they throw in sub-lightspeed interstellar travel while they're at it.

This reminds me of the unreleased Penn & Teller game for the Sega CD. It was intended to make fun of many game types. One of the games was a Greyhound Bus simulator, in which you drove a big passenger bus from Los Angeles to Phoenix. This would take about 8 hours. Each way. Those poor playtesters.
 
[quote name='Zmonkay']While I think Nintendo has an interesting idea with downloadable old games, I think someone else came up with that idea a long time ago. Now where was it...oh yes, THE INTERNET! Nintendo can't honostly believe that this will be anything more than an added feature if they charge for it, as roms for anything before the current gen can be easily found all over the place (not that I'm endorsing emulation, just stating a fact). Why would someone pay to download an old SNES or N64 game when an emulator/rom combo on a PC can play them just as well. I'll buy the Revolution no matter what, as it is the only system that will have Nintendo first and second party games, but I REALLY hope this feature isn't supposed to be some sort of selling point.[/QUOTE]

I will happily pay a nominal fee for downloadable games if they are legal.

I'd much rather buy than steal any day of the week.
 
[quote name='Snake2715']A couple of things I am thinking about....

I am just watching the E3 conference.

they touced on lower development costs. That can come from a few approaches but what about allowing companies to bring new franchises in any previous format? I mean say they want to drop a new 8 bit or 16 bit game they can. Obviously those development costs are lower than current gena nd with new faster computers its got to be even easier than it was 10 years ago.

Also say they want to bring a lot of their (Nintendo's) new franchises up to date. The downloadable content will allow the users to catch up before teh enw game comes out...

Just a few ideas....

On top of that they expressed in the first 10 minutes that they are only showing a little bit of what the revolution has to offer. It could be smoke they are aiming at my ass with but I still tend to think that its got more to offer.[/QUOTE]

The GBA has low development costs, too. It's simple. The less capable the platform the less you can get out of it from further investment.

On the PS3 a developer is going to have immense amounts of disc storage and 512 MBs of RAM. If you want your dungeon crawler to be the best ever you'll make every room and tunnel distinct. Instead of one generic version of each monster create a whole pack of distinct examples of the species. The potential is endless but resoures aren't. If RAM and disc access speeds dictate X amount of detail and no more, that is where that part of the process ends.

On the PS3 and Xbox 360 there is a whole laundry list of new techniques for developers to master to properly exploit these machines. If the Revolution just amounts to a GameCube on steroids then there isn't much new to learn, just more elbow room for the stuff they've been doing already.
 
[quote name='epobirs']Cripes! Why don't they throw in sub-lightspeed interstellar travel while they're at it.
[/QUOTE]

Well they aren't going that fast, but they are out of this world. :)
 
[quote name='epobirs']Nintendo has already been mining that veing for a while. We've seen numerous NES and SNES titles revived on GBA and more recently DS has offered a new home to N64 games. The big advantage of this on the GBA is the massive number of owners too young to have experienced those games in their previous incarnation. I'm a big believer in keeping old properties available but I've got dire misgivings when it is the most prominent feature of a new system.

Microsoft already has the means in place to duplicate this via Xbox Live Arcade. Sega licenses out the Genesis emulation cheap and SNK Playmore would likely be pleased to do the same with the Neo-Geo platform. The PC Engine/TurboGrafx is owned by Hudson and also available for emulation licensing.

Sony likely has something in mind as well. This could be a nice additional revenue stream but system seller it ain't.[/QUOTE]

For you. A lot of people here have already mentioned it is for them.
 
[quote name='epobirs']Cripes! Why don't they throw in sub-lightspeed interstellar travel while they're at it.

This reminds me of the unreleased Penn & Teller game for the Sega CD. It was intended to make fun of many game types. One of the games was a Greyhound Bus simulator, in which you drove a big passenger bus from Los Angeles to Phoenix. This would take about 8 hours. Each way. Those poor playtesters.[/QUOTE]

You forgot to mention that the bus pulled slightly to one side, so you couldn't just set it up and walk off for 8 hours. Plus there was no real roadside scenery. And when you completed the journey, you got 1 point.
 
I just saw the Revolution and it looks really small and sleek. Out of the three next gen systems, I like its design the best.

It's hinted that the revolution's price is going to be low (I wonder how low) which is a plus and I'm tempted to get it. This would be a great selling point for Nintendo if it were to come out first, but it isn't.

I'm worried that their 3rd party games will be small again because nintendo's going to use DVD's? for games. When PS3's and Xbox's game disks hold so much data how would game developers port over the games?

PS3 probably gets a new final fantasy and Nintendo gets another FF: CC? That's not a good sign.
 
[quote name='jkam']For you. A lot of people here have already mentioned it is for them.[/QUOTE]

I think they'll find the novelty of the idea has worn before the product is even available. Things change when real money enters the picture. Recall how many complained at the price of the NES Classics line? Nintendo made an outrageous margin on those in Japan but they didn't do nearly as much business here. If Nintendo expects comparable margins (minus the media cost) on their virtual library service it's going to mean renewed interest in visiting swap meets for a better deal on the original hardware and software.
 
[quote name='jngx80']I just saw the Revolution and it looks really small and sleek. Out of the three next gen systems, I like its design the best.

It's hinted that the revolution's price is going to be low (I wonder how low) which is a plus and I'm tempted to get it. This would be a great selling point for Nintendo if it were to come out first, but it isn't.

I'm worried that their 3rd party games will be small again because nintendo's going to use DVD's? for games. When PS3's and Xbox's game disks hold so much data how would game developers port over the games?

PS3 probably gets a new final fantasy and Nintendo gets another FF: CC? That's not a good sign.[/QUOTE]

Xbox 360 uses standard DVDs, just like Revolution.
 
[quote name='epobirs']The GBA has low development costs, too. It's simple. The less capable the platform the less you can get out of it from further investment.

On the PS3 a developer is going to have immense amounts of disc storage and 512 MBs of RAM. If you want your dungeon crawler to be the best ever you'll make every room and tunnel distinct. Instead of one generic version of each monster create a whole pack of distinct examples of the species. The potential is endless but resoures aren't. If RAM and disc access speeds dictate X amount of detail and no more, that is where that part of the process ends.

On the PS3 and Xbox 360 there is a whole laundry list of new techniques for developers to master to properly exploit these machines. If the Revolution just amounts to a GameCube on steroids then there isn't much new to learn, just more elbow room for the stuff they've been doing already.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't be surprised, actually, if that was one of the Revolutionary aspects. Maybe the Revolution is just like developing for the GCN? Companies are barely starting to figure out the tricks this gen and this gen is being abondoned already (something that, iirc, you yourself have complained about) - just look at RE4 and MGS3 for examples. So what would be the problem with a "new" console that, at it's heart, was just a souped up, consolidated, energy efficient, cheaper version of the old core. But then throw in new technology that was developed for just such a purpose (such as GPU) that will make the console comparable to what trhe others are offering. So a simplified way to make games that allows developers to utilize what they already know, is cheap to develop for, is quick to develop for, allows for games and innovation to be used instead of time and money, plus it all looks on par with 360 (maybe better?) - what's so wrong with all of that? I'd be on board for that. Throw in exclusive Nintendo franchises, plus a back catalog of Nintendo's entire history? You have got to be kidding me if you think it's a bad idea.

You don't know that this (or more) isn't the case. And everything that has been said sure suggests something along these lines, so just withhold your judgement until you actually know something.

(Something I do know is that Sony flat out lied with the PS2 unveiling. Why wouldn;t that be the case again? Nintendo underplayed the power of N64 and GCN, why wouldn't it again be the same?)
 
Just play what you want to play and stop criticizing other people for what they play.

Personally I don't like where Nintendo is going and I'm not going to buy thier consoles. Too many rehashes, boring, and few games. I can only take so much mario or zelda or metroid. But for you nintendo fanboys go at it, they need somone to support them. But just know that it might not last forever.

also I remember them touting the system as being revolutionary?!?! what have they announced so far that is so revolutionary?! I know they wernt gonna focus on graphics.... well if anything it's prob the controller since that's the one thing they didn't show. But who knows....

Oh yeah I will bag on the new gameboy, more of nitnendo's shady tactics lol. Talk about major gameboy burnout.
 
[quote name='MorPhiend'](Something I do know is that Sony flat out lied with the PS2 unveiling. Why wouldn;t that be the case again? Nintendo underplayed the power of N64 and GCN, why wouldn't it again be the same?)[/QUOTE]

Yup.

Anyone else remember the tech demo of "the eye" they used for the PS2? It was a photo-realisitic eye that blinked.

No game on the PS2 even approached photo-realism.

The demos of "The Getaway" are impressive, but I will wait until I see actual games running on actual hardware before being blown away.
 
[quote name='Zoglog']Just play what you want to play and stop criticizing other people for what they play.

Personally I don't like where Nintendo is going and I'm not going to buy thier consoles. Too many rehashes, boring, and few games. I can only take so much mario or zelda or metroid. But for you nintendo fanboys go at it, they need somone to support them. But just know that it might not last forever.

also I remember them touting the system as being revolutionary?!?! what have they announced so far that is so revolutionary?! I know they wernt gonna focus on graphics.... well if anything it's prob the controller since that's the one thing they didn't show. But who knows....

Oh yeah I will bag on the new gameboy, more of nitnendo's shady tactics lol. Talk about major gameboy burnout.[/QUOTE]

I just don't see how anyone can say the GCN has too many rehashes and is boring. There are WAY more "rehashes" (whatever that means) on the PS2 and in general there's nothing that screams must-have to everyone that is available only on the Xbox that you can't get for another console (except maybe Halo). Nintendo consistently has the most innovative and all-around fun games, IMO. I'm not saying the PS2 and Xbox are bad by any means - I LOVE my PS2 but I just don't understand all the Nintendo hatred. Is it that tough to get past the purple cube?
 
[quote name='epobirs']I think they'll find the novelty of the idea has worn before the product is even available. Things change when real money enters the picture. Recall how many complained at the price of the NES Classics line? Nintendo made an outrageous margin on those in Japan but they didn't do nearly as much business here. If Nintendo expects comparable margins (minus the media cost) on their virtual library service it's going to mean renewed interest in visiting swap meets for a better deal on the original hardware and software.[/QUOTE]

You also have to remember that you are not everyone. They are going for All Access Gaming. They want the casual and the non gamer. A good example would be either my older brother or my younger sister. My older brother likes games. But now that he has a family, he has not spent much time, especially because of always buying a new console, the outrageous costs of buying games, etc. But it's not that he won't take the time to play games. I bought him an N64 back when they were still common. He loved it and started buying used games for it. It's the initial investment and the high cost of games that has kept him away from games. With this, he can now have a relatively cheap console that not only allows him access to all the new games and all the GCN library, but he can get all of the games he grew up on and all of the games that he missed out on for a nominal price, all without any clutter (which his wife hates).

There are many people in similar situations. Everyone has not been able to stay devoted to gaming their whole lives. This makes it easier.

Then there are people like my little sister. She is not a gamer at all. She scoffs at the idea of playing videogames. But Nintendo has her. If you mention Donkey Konga, DDR, Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, etc., things suddenly become different. She is all about playing those with you (and schooling you). And she isn't a gamer. Now, when I show her Nintendogs she is absolutely gona flip.

These are the people that Nintendo were mainly selling to today (or at showing what is going to sell these people on Nintendo). If you think they don't also have something in store for the core gamer, you live in a fairytale land. But that audience is there. They are listening. They want to hear the news (even the Nintendo bashers). You don't think that Nintendo knows this? Iwata even aluded to it and mentioned multiple times that these elements are going to remain shrouded in mystery for now.
 
[quote name='epobirs']I think they'll find the novelty of the idea has worn before the product is even available. Things change when real money enters the picture. Recall how many complained at the price of the NES Classics line? Nintendo made an outrageous margin on those in Japan but they didn't do nearly as much business here. If Nintendo expects comparable margins (minus the media cost) on their virtual library service it's going to mean renewed interest in visiting swap meets for a better deal on the original hardware and software.[/QUOTE]

It is all based on your opinion. You believe the novelty will wear thin. It is pretty obvious to me that you are very tech oriented and only concerned about the current tech. I for one could care less about HDTV, Graphics, and the Blue-Ray or HD-DVD formats. For me it is all about the games. While I am very impressed with the PS3 Devil May Cry 4, Tekken 6, and Gran Turismo 5 don't exactly make me jump out of my seat. AND NO I'M NOT SAYING THAT NINTENDO DOESN'T DO THE EXACT SAME THING but I need more than a shiny coat of paint. The truth is I still enjoy a ton of old school games some even more so than the current generation.

The system however will most likely be a lot cheaper than the PS3 and the XBOX 360. So it will = less real money. A lot of people complained about the cost of the NES Classics line but people still bought them (more in Japan) which became almost pure profit for Nintendo. It is also a different point as even though they were remakes they never appeared in portable form. Nintendo hasn't even mentioned anything as far as pricing goes so who knows what will happen? Maybe nintendo could offer points for every Revolution game you buy good towards downloable old-school games or maybe they'll make swap meet hunting obsolete by offering all the old games for free. Now that would be a revolution!
 
[quote name='Zoglog']Personally I don't like where Nintendo is going and I'm not going to buy thier consoles. Too many rehashes, boring, and few games. I can only take so much mario or zelda or metroid. But for you nintendo fanboys go at it, they need somone to support them. But just know that it might not last forever.

also I remember them touting the system as being revolutionary?!?! what have they announced so far that is so revolutionary?! I know they wernt gonna focus on graphics.... well if anything it's prob the controller since that's the one thing they didn't show. But who knows....

Oh yeah I will bag on the new gameboy, more of nitnendo's shady tactics lol. Talk about major gameboy burnout.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Zoglog']Just play what you want to play and stop criticizing other people for what they play.[/QUOTE]

exactly
 
[quote name='fanskad']Yup.

Anyone else remember the tech demo of "the eye" they used for the PS2? It was a photo-realisitic eye that blinked.

No game on the PS2 even approached photo-realism.

The demos of "The Getaway" are impressive, but I will wait until I see actual games running on actual hardware before being blown away.[/QUOTE]

well I for one think it might be different this time because this time sony wasnt developing the system on its own. Its a great partnership with IBM ,Toshiba, and NVIDIA. Like nintendo did with IBM and ATI and look how good the GCN turned out graphic wise. Same goes for xbox with Nvidia and IBM also. So ill give them the benefit of the doubt for now .
 
[quote name='jkam']It is all based on your opinion. You believe the novelty will wear thin. It is pretty obvious to me that you are very tech oriented and only concerned about the current tech. I for one could care less about HDTV, Graphics, and the Blue-Ray or HD-DVD formats. For me it is all about the games. While I am very impressed with the PS3 Devil May Cry 4, Tekken 6, and Gran Turismo 5 don't exactly make me jump out of my seat. AND NO I'M NOT SAYING THAT NINTENDO DOESN'T DO THE EXACT SAME THING but I need more than a shiny coat of paint. The truth is I still enjoy a ton of old school games some even more so than the current generation.

The system however will most likely be a lot cheaper than the PS3 and the XBOX 360. So it will = less real money. A lot of people complained about the cost of the NES Classics line but people still bought them (more in Japan) which became almost pure profit for Nintendo. It is also a different point as even though they were remakes they never appeared in portable form. Nintendo hasn't even mentioned anything as far as pricing goes so who knows what will happen? Maybe nintendo could offer points for every Revolution game you buy good towards downloable old-school games or maybe they'll make swap meet hunting obsolete by offering all the old games for free. Now that would be a revolution![/QUOTE]

Any gamer worth his salt still has his old systems, hell I have TWO NES systems just because the frist one has bad connectors and I havent had time to replace them, but the point is anyone who wanted to play these games already has a way to do it, be it old systems, used games, emmulators or actually plunking down the 40 bucks for the overpriced GBA classics versions which frankly were only bought by people who didn;t actually know there were other options. For Nintendo to really take advantage of downloadable content of the old games it'd have to be a package deal. 4 generations of Nintendo games for a nominal monthly fee or only a very rich minority will even bother.

A friend of mine was playing games with some kids he baby sits, he tried to get them to play the old arcade version Ninja turles, a 4 player game, so they could all play together, 5 minutes into it they wanted to play something else. So I'd say counting on oldies can very easily blow up in their face if they arnt careful.
 
Nothing is wrong with Nintendo at all. When I was only moderately interested in games about 3 years ago, Nintendo was perfect because it was cheap and most of its first party games are high quality. Sure Nintendo might be in 3rd place in the "console wars", but they seem to be making money on what they sell unlike Microsoft which loses money on each XBOX sold. Of course, I am a huge XBOX supporter now, but Nintendo is great and will continue to have lasting appeal. After all, how much longer do you think graphics can keep being improved on in games?
 
I was thinking of an iGames $.99 each. They won't release them all at once only a few titles a month so it will only cost you a few dollars a month to gain a large collection of great games.
 
already have a nintendo revolution, it's called a modded xbox, and it didn't cost me anything to get the entire back catalog of nintendo(and sega) games. :lol:

But i'll end up getting a revolution anyway.
 
Looks like the info I posted was largely correct, so that's good. The Revolution looks nice but all of the "We'll have more info on that later" kind of disappointed me, but what info we did get was good. LoZ looks good so far, can't wait to get my hands on that. Not really interested in the GBM as my Retro GBA SP is more to my liking than the mini GBA.
 
[quote name='manofpeace20']Nothing is wrong with Nintendo at all. When I was only moderately interested in games about 3 years ago, Nintendo was perfect because it was cheap and most of its first party games are high quality. Sure Nintendo might be in 3rd place in the "console wars", but they seem to be making money on what they sell unlike Microsoft which loses money on each XBOX sold. Of course, I am a huge XBOX supporter now, but Nintendo is great and will continue to have lasting appeal. After all, how much longer do you think graphics can keep being improved on in games?[/QUOTE]

As long as there's a gap between what you can see in real life and what the machine can produce there will always be improvment. As long as a creator can say "man I wish I could have created that the way I saw it in my head" there will always be room for improment. Don't assume graphics can never get better because there's always something you can't do this generation that you wont be able to do for another 4 years.

On the other hand, yeah there's no such thing as bad graphics on any of the current or upcomming systems unless the developers just refuse to try (dev tools would even make it easier for them not to try) But all the great graphics inthe world can't make a sucky game playable and people's tastes will eventually change making a game they once thought awesome to be "meh". They need to wow people not only with graphics to keep them interested but more fun for people to want to com back even after the graphic suprise is gone and that's getting harder and harder to do.
 
Lots of people who lost their way when gaming went to 3D will LOVE the backlibrary feature. I know TONS of my nongamer college friends who still dig up old SNES and NES consoles and games and play them. It's retro... it's cool... it's nostalgic. In fact more than a couple of the guys on my floor this year (I'm an RA in college) dug up old NINTENDO consoles to play Street Fighter, Mario 64, Zelda OoT, etc. This feature alone will make some people consider the console. It's like an expanded version of those illegal NES emulators they sold in malls. If the price is right... and its marketed well... Nintendo may have an entire new market.

Obviously cost is a huge issue for Nintendo... today's announcement makes me think that this console will be much cheaper at launch than the normal console... I get the feeling that this thing is going to change how we think about consoles... not with revolutionary new concepts (although those may remain to be seen) but with its entry price and target market. Essentially what we are going to have is what we've ALWAYS had. A system with plenty of first party Nintendo games, a bunch of 2nd party games/collaborations, and a few 3rd party games. The difference is going to be in PRICE. As a Nintendo fan I'm getting what I've always gotten... just most likely at a cheaper price. And if developement costs are indeed cheaper on this system... it might ATTRACT smaller, more creative developers who are just getting their feet wet in devloping. Its starting to make a lot of sense.
 
It's retro... it's cool... it's nostalgic. This feature alone will make some people consider the console.
Click to expand...

It also gets old very quickly to me, but maybe it'll have a different effect on casual gamers. This will be a selling point for the system and I'm confident it will tide Nintendo over until the next gen.
 
[quote name='MorPhiend']I wouldn't be surprised, actually, if that was one of the Revolutionary aspects. Maybe the Revolution is just like developing for the GCN? Companies are barely starting to figure out the tricks this gen and this gen is being abondoned already (something that, iirc, you yourself have complained about) - just look at RE4 and MGS3 for examples. So what would be the problem with a "new" console that, at it's heart, was just a souped up, consolidated, energy efficient, cheaper version of the old core. But then throw in new technology that was developed for just such a purpose (such as GPU) that will make the console comparable to what trhe others are offering. So a simplified way to make games that allows developers to utilize what they already know, is cheap to develop for, is quick to develop for, allows for games and innovation to be used instead of time and money, plus it all looks on par with 360 (maybe better?) - what's so wrong with all of that? I'd be on board for that. Throw in exclusive Nintendo franchises, plus a back catalog of Nintendo's entire history? You have got to be kidding me if you think it's a bad idea.

You don't know that this (or more) isn't the case. And everything that has been said sure suggests something along these lines, so just withhold your judgement until you actually know something.

(Something I do know is that Sony flat out lied with the PS2 unveiling. Why wouldn;t that be the case again? Nintendo underplayed the power of N64 and GCN, why wouldn't it again be the same?)[/QUOTE]

Where Sony lied wasn't in the numbers but in the hyperbole regardign what those number would enable.

A big difference this time around is that the Emotion Engine was kept larely under wraps until the machine was shipping. When Microprocessor Report did the definitve analysis of it they said it was liek pulling teeth try to get objective data out of Sony. With Cell, things are different. IBM is much more open about it and the product is intended to see use in many devices other than the PS3. You can't sell it to the open market without disclosing a lot about the product. Sources I trust have told me the numbers are pretty much what Sony is claiming. The question is channeling the power effectively.

The 360 offers a lot of known quantities as well. If Microsoft claims number that experience PPC developers find questionable the word is going to spread pretty fast. The web loves that sort of gossip.

On the GPU side the there is lots of new secret sauce but we can tell a lot from those vendors' recent products. Even if those video processors are only equivalent to the best of what is in gaming PCs today, that is a huge jump for consoles. There is definitely some new ground being broken here. The unified shader structure in the Xbox 360's VPU, for instance, has long been the stuff of dreams but now it's real. Instead of being stuck with the distribution of pixel shader pipes to vertex shader pipes chosen by the vendor, developers can now configure those on the fly. (The SDK will likely offer a tool to determine which ration best suits a scene.)

If the Revolution is just the GameCube made faster there won't be much learning curve but there won't be much gains over time either. Third year titles won't look much better than launch titles. There will hopefully be some new elements such as dedicated shaders but the physical requirements of the design mean those will be limited, perhaps equivalent to the low end of DX9 class chips. A big improvement over the GameCube but the competition won't even break a sweat while leaving it in the dust.

Thems the choices. If nintendo can hit a $200 price point again and come up with some clever ways to differentiate themselves from the more expensive monsters, there may be a good business. If their sole tactic is to lower cost of entry again, they're in deep doo-doo.
 
[quote name='epobirs']Where Sony lied wasn't in the numbers but in the hyperbole regardign what those number would enable.

A big difference this time around is that the Emotion Engine was kept larely under wraps until the machine was shipping. When Microprocessor Report did the definitve analysis of it they said it was liek pulling teeth try to get objective data out of Sony. With Cell, things are different. IBM is much more open about it and the product is intended to see use in many devices other than the PS3. You can't sell it to the open market without disclosing a lot about the product. Sources I trust have told me the numbers are pretty much what Sony is claiming. The question is channeling the power effectively.

The 360 offers a lot of known quantities as well. If Microsoft claims number that experience PPC developers find questionable the word is going to spread pretty fast. The web loves that sort of gossip.

On the GPU side the there is lots of new secret sauce but we can tell a lot from those vendors' recent products. Even if those video processors are only equivalent to the best of what is in gaming PCs today, that is a huge jump for consoles. There is definitely some new ground being broken here. The unified shader structure in the Xbox 360's VPU, for instance, has long been the stuff of dreams but now it's real. Instead of being stuck with the distribution of pixel shader pipes to vertex shader pipes chosen by the vendor, developers can now configure those on the fly. (The SDK will likely offer a tool to determine which ration best suits a scene.)

If the Revolution is just the GameCube made faster there won't be much learning curve but there won't be much gains over time either. Third year titles won't look much better than launch titles. There will hopefully be some new elements such as dedicated shaders but the physical requirements of the design mean those will be limited, perhaps equivalent to the low end of DX9 class chips. A big improvement over the GameCube but the competition won't even break a sweat while leaving it in the dust.

Thems the choices. If nintendo can hit a $200 price point again and come up with some clever ways to differentiate themselves from the more expensive monsters, there may be a good business. If their sole tactic is to lower cost of entry again, they're in deep doo-doo.[/QUOTE]

IF (and this is a big if...) this is about all there is to the new Revolution... price and cost are going to be VITAL. Price of the hardware/software is giong to allow Nintendo to undersell the competition and make the Revolution the definitive "2nd console". Cost of game production is something that they seemed to push as well... again... maybe smaller, newer, and younger developers will flock to this console is the costs are low enough that they want their unknown products to get some retail space and attention (a game like Alien Hominid comes to mind).
 
Obviously the Revolution isn't ready OR finalized. They showed a prototype system, and didn't have many details to talk about. It's pretty clear that Nintendo only said as much as they did to save face against the other 2 console unveilings.

We only got a taste, and the main course hasn't been brought out yet. As I said before, I'm guessing we'll get the real scoop at Spaceworld.
 
[quote name='pumbaa']Lots of people who lost their way when gaming went to 3D will LOVE the backlibrary feature. I know TONS of my nongamer college friends who still dig up old SNES and NES consoles and games and play them. It's retro... it's cool... it's nostalgic. In fact more than a couple of the guys on my floor this year (I'm an RA in college) dug up old NINTENDO consoles to play Street Fighter, Mario 64, Zelda OoT, etc. This feature alone will make some people consider the console. It's like an expanded version of those illegal NES emulators they sold in malls. If the price is right... and its marketed well... Nintendo may have an entire new market.

Obviously cost is a huge issue for Nintendo... today's announcement makes me think that this console will be much cheaper at launch than the normal console... I get the feeling that this thing is going to change how we think about consoles... not with revolutionary new concepts (although those may remain to be seen) but with its entry price and target market. Essentially what we are going to have is what we've ALWAYS had. A system with plenty of first party Nintendo games, a bunch of 2nd party games/collaborations, and a few 3rd party games. The difference is going to be in PRICE. As a Nintendo fan I'm getting what I've always gotten... just most likely at a cheaper price. And if developement costs are indeed cheaper on this system... it might ATTRACT smaller, more creative developers who are just getting their feet wet in devloping. Its starting to make a lot of sense.[/QUOTE]

So these retro enthusiast are already covered. How does Nintendo convert them to paying cutomers for stuff they already own? It isn't like the GBA revivals where portability was a feature.

Which raises another question. Hard core gamers can name a zillion titles near and dear to their hearts, but how many of the golden oldies that have a good sized potential audience haven't already been resurrected on the PS1, GBA, DS, etc. ? For instance, why buy the NES Classics version of Metroid when Metroid Zero is a far superior version with the original as an unlockable? Assuming they don't make the service overpriced, what will the cheap availability of N64 games do the revival of same of the DS?

If you're a big fan of vintage Nintendo titles, chances are you already bought them on the GBA. Are there going to be enough items left to make the cost of the service acceptable.

Don't get me wrong. I think it's a good idea. I just don't think it's a sufficient reason to buy the Revolution. I'd suggest Sony do the same thing with PS1 games when the new generation of broadband service becomes available, like Verizon's FIOS. At 15 MB speeds you could download a game that filled two-thirds of a CD-ROM quite quickly. But if that happens in the PS3's lifetime it would be a cool thing but not reason in of itself to buy a PS3. It would be like choosing a new car model because it comes with a CD player and cassette deck while the others only have CD players. When you can get a portable cassette player for $20 that feature is hardly a way to pick a car.
 
There is no SpaceWorld, hasn't for years.

Nintendo and MS really should have HD DVD on their systems, but they are being dumb again.
 
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