Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,341574,00.html

WESTON, Wis. — An 11-year-old girl died after her parents prayed for healing rather than seek medical help for a treatable form of diabetes, police said Tuesday.

Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said Madeline Neumann died Sunday.

"She got sicker and sicker until she was dead," he said.

Vergin said an autopsy determined the girl died from diabetic ketoacidosis, an ailment that left her with too little insulin in her body, and she had probably been ill for about 30 days, suffering symptoms like nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness.

The girl's parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, attributed the death to "apparently they didn't have enough faith," the police chief said.

They believed the key to healing "was it was better to keep praying. Call more people to help pray," he said.

The mother believes the girl could still be resurrected, the police chief said.

Telephone messages left at the Neumann home by The Associated Press were not immediately returned.

The family does not attend an organized church or participate in an organized religion, Vergin said. "They have a little Bible study of a few people."

The parents told investigators their daughter last saw a doctor when she was 3 to get some shots, Vergin said. The girl had attended public school during the first semester but didn't return for the second semester.

Officers went to the home after one of the girl's relatives in California called police to check on her, Vergin said. She was taken to a hospital where she was pronounced dead.

The relative was fearful the girl was "extremely ill, dire," Vergin said.
The girl has three siblings, ranging in age from 13 to 16, the police chief said.

"They are still in the home," he said. "There is no reason to remove them. There is no abuse or signs of abuse that we can see."

The girl's death remains under investigation and the findings will be forwarded to the district attorney to review for possible charges, the chief said.

The family operates a coffee shop in Weston, which is a suburb of Wausau, Vergin said.
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WTF is this? Wierd ass fucked up news day?


You are killing me people...The world is a strange and sometimes horrifying place. Imma go play me some GTA.
 
Wow. Thats sad. Those parents should be locked up in a loony bin for life. I hate to see how they try to resurrect their daughter. Terrible stuff.

Lets hope the remaining children are removed from the home before they ever need medical help. Lock these parents up and throw the key away.
 
Take that religion! Sigh how dumb can people be? Those other kids should be removed from the home since I think this might fall under something called negligence.
 
[quote name='sp00ge']I'm all for religious freedom, but if your kid is dying and prayer isn't working, it's time for a Plan B.[/quote]Maybe their Plan B only kicks in after 31 days?
 
Ok...on the one hand, I can see the "logic" involved in praying if you're highly religious (stay with me on this one).

But it states in the article that they didn't even attend church, they just have a bible study that's comprised of a handful of people!

WTF!?
 
[quote name='zewone']
Stuff like this is going to keep happenin' until we kill God.[/QUOTE]

Until I get through all the boring text in Xenogears, it aint gonna happen.
 
This reminds me of a line from a Curb You Enthusiasm that was on last night ..

"You're sick but you dont go to a doctor and you just pray to get better instead? That's silly! When your tv is broken, do you call a repair man or do you pray for that to get better too?"
 
[quote name='Mr. Beef']Ok...on the one hand, I can see the "logic" involved in praying if you're highly religious (stay with me on this one).

But it states in the article that they didn't even attend church, they just have a bible study that's comprised of a handful of people!

WTF!?[/quote]


That's called a cult in my neck of the woods.
 
[quote name='leveskikesko']Scientologist?

Wait...do they pray?[/QUOTE]

Only if they pay up.

Nintendo has pay-to-play, and Scientology has pay-to-pray.

At some point, Nintendo is going to get sued because Iwata is going to mispronounce it.
 
[quote name='Strell']Until I get through all the boring text in Xenogears, it aint gonna happen.[/QUOTE]

There is a Gameshark code that speeds up the text dramatically.
 
[quote name='Strell']Only if they pay up.

Nintendo has pay-to-play, and Scientology has pay-to-pray.

At some point, Nintendo is going to get sued because Iwata is going to mispronounce it.[/quote]

Poor scientologists it is, then again most are....
 
Reminds me of this Onion shirt:
thumb
 
Ha, I need that onion shirt. I haven't bought any of the good ones I've seen, they need a sale...

Anyway, good example of stupid people. Thankfully that isn't the majority.
 
It's amazing that they were able to manage their daughter's diabeetus:p for 11 years without a doctor's guidance.
They didnt go to a church or belong to an organized religion, but yet they still pull the faith card when she dies. - And who the hell believes normal people can be resurected?
I call shenanigans. They are just using hte faith excuse to cover up thier abuse and neglect.
 
There's a reason why the average age of death, the population, and the amount of babies people are having now are significantly higher than a few hundred or thousand years ago. It may not all be attributed to it, but in one way or another, it's because of medicine or medical care.

There's nothing wrong with praying for a loved one, but these people need to realize that their God or faith won't do everything for them. I mean, we don't know for a fact that the girl wouldn't have died if she got medical treatment, but the chances of her surviving would be so much higher if they just took her in...
 
I'm not a religious man, but I think they key is thinking that "God helps those who help themselves". It just reminds me of the old joke:

The river in the village a priest lived in was about to burst its banks and drown everything. A car pulled up to the church and shouted to the priest, "Father, we can squeeze you in. Hop in!" The priest replied, "No, you go my children. Save someone else. God will save me!"

The water level kept rising and some people in an inflatable boat rowed to the church and shouted to the priest, "Father! Hop in! You're going to drown!" The priest replied, "No, go save someone else. God will save me!"

Now the whole town was under water. The priest made it to the roof of the church where a helicopter hovered nearby and shouted to him, "Father, grab the rope!" to which the priest replied, "No, don't worry about me. God will save me!"

Our poor friend the priest drowns and he goes to heaven. When he met God, he asked him, "I've been your humble servant all my life. I helped the poor and did good deeds. Why didn't you save me?" And God replied, "What are you talking about? I sent you a car, a boat and a helicopter!"
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[quote name='sp00ge']I'm all for religious freedom, but if your kid is dying and prayer isn't working, it's time for a Plan B.[/QUOTE]
Agreed.
 
[quote name='Fanboy']I'm not a religious man, but I think they key is thinking that "God helps those who help themselves". It just reminds me of the old joke:[/quote]

While I can see where you are coming from, that concept isn't really scriptural. And while it's sort of close to some Biblical principles, that phrase has been stretched and abused to death in the past 20 or so years. *EDIT* I read the story below your post, and that is a great story, and I think the message is accurate. God often moves through earthly means to aid us. My above comment is in reference to situations where people do things sinful and then try to use that phrase to justify them.

I really hate that this whole thing ever happened, for a few reasons. First and foremost, an innocent girl died for no other reason than spiritual blindedness of her parents. Secondly, it places strong ammunition in the hands of anti-Christianity, as evidenced by some of the earlier posts in this thread.

The Bible, especially in the New Testament, advocates a church family, and accountability to each other and a pastor. Small groups like that who stay isolated and to themselves is a dangerous thing, as their interpretation of the Bible can get squirrelly very quickly.

I can, in a very small way, see where their hearts were in this. They wanted to follow the Bible, obtain healing, and be obedient to the Lord. Sadly, they missed it big-time. God created men and women to be wise enough to discover medicine, and I believe it is scripturally acceptable to go first to physicians when health problems arise. Now, when you run into something earthly impossible like cancer or AIDS, then that's where faith and healing come into play. But neglect of your own body is anti-Biblical; the Word instructs people to care for their bodies, as they are the Temple of the Holy Spirit.

At any rate, this is just crap and I am really bothered by it.
 
[quote name='leveskikesko']Scientologist?

Wait...do they pray?[/QUOTE]

I think you're thinking of Christian Scientists rather than Scientologists. Scientologists see doctors, just not shrinks, who seem to intrude on the whole Thetan scam thing.

Anyway. All I know is if I have to choose between my god and my kid, Abraham I am not: I'm doing what's best for my kid, and the Big Invisible Guy can take it up with me in the afterlife.
 
[quote name='Fanboy']God helps those who help themselves[/quote]
An interesting tidbit: I believe that is an Arab saying, not Christian.

As a Christian, I'll chime in here. Being involved in a health church is very important. Even the Bible explains that it is important for us to belong to a church-type community. Whenever I hear people saying that they "have an understanding with God" and that they are "very religious" but don't have a church family, then I have to think that they are making up what Christianity is to suit themselves instead of following the Lord's teachings.

Also, prayer is communicating with God. In fact, you may actually influence the world through prayer. The Bible has examples of people negotiating with God. However, in my experience, people with a strong healthy faith want God's will to unfold according to God's plan, not their own. This family, from what little I know from the article, had faith in their faith, not faith in their God. You can see this when they said their faith was not strong enough.

God gave this family the tools to make the girl well: doctors, treatment, etc. They chose to try to make an example of how great their faith was instead of using the tools right in front of them and using prayer to exalt God for the provisions he made available to her.

Ultimately, I feel sad for this family. They have lost a daughter and if they ever get their theology right then then will see that they did not have to lose her.
 
I was talking to my mom about this story. She said there are certain religions that branch off Christianity who do not believe in doctors or hospitals AT ALL. Maybe these people are part of something like that. Either way this is just a sad story no matter how you look at it.
 
[quote name='Strell']Until I get through all the boring text in Xenogears, it aint gonna happen.[/quote]

Didn't they go after God in Star Ocean?
 
[quote name='trq']I think you're thinking of Christian Scientists rather than Scientologists. Scientologists see doctors, just not shrinks, who seem to intrude on the whole Thetan scam thing.

Anyway. All I know is if I have to choose between my god and my kid, Abraham I am not: I'm doing what's best for my kid, and the Big Invisible Guy can take it up with me in the afterlife.[/quote]

Actually not really, well I was half-joking.

Not 100% sure, but I've heard scientologists have to go to special scientology hospitals even if it makes most sense just to go to a regular hospital. In fact one woman in the news a while ago could've lived if she was taken to the closest hospital rather than the scientology hospital.

And I was just joking that if you're a poor scientologist, you probably wouldn't be able to go to the scientology hospital since scientologists make you pay a lot of cash.
 
I like how they say that maybe they didn't have enough faith, or enough people praying.

Like their god runs on a point system where you earn points by getting lots of people to pray, and if you get enough points to fill up the miracle meter, he answers the prayer and performs a miracle for you.
 
[quote name='Dezuria']I like how they say that maybe they didn't have enough faith, or enough people praying.

Like their god runs on a point system where you earn points by getting lots of people to pray, and if you get enough points to fill up the miracle meter, he answers the prayer and performs a miracle for you.[/quote]

God's gotten old so he's a little hard of hearing. You gotta speak up.
 
[quote name='umcthomas']An interesting tidbit: I believe that is an Arab saying, not Christian.[/QUOTE]

Actually, it's Ben Franklin, for what it's worth.
 
[quote name='trq']Actually, it's Ben Franklin, for what it's worth.[/quote]

Arab, Ben Franklin, all the same in my book. You shouldn't be so exclusionary of a whole culture just because a famous American said something.

Really though, thanks for setting that straight, I knew it wasn't biblical but attributed it wrongly.
 
This line from the article got me:
The mother believes the girl could still be resurrected, the police chief said.
Well, that line of thinking explains why God didn't help your child out, you narcissistic idolater fucks.

[quote name='sp00ge']I'm all for religious freedom, but if your kid is dying and prayer isn't working, it's time for a Plan B.[/QUOTE]

Well, then, that's not religious freedom. There are indeed limits to religious freedom, but this situation is more akin to the need to prosecute the parents for neglect/abuse.

[quote name='Mr. Beef']Ok...on the one hand, I can see the "logic" involved in praying if you're highly religious (stay with me on this one).

But it states in the article that they didn't even attend church, they just have a bible study that's comprised of a handful of people!

WTF!?[/QUOTE]

I don't think that "not going to church"="not religious." If anything, they're probably more like the kinds of ultrachristian nutjobs who homeschool their children to keep them away from the evil, evil, satantic liberalism taught at the local Jesuit or Catholic school.

Think John Lithgow from "Footloose," with probably a healthy does of Laura Ingalls Wilder style dresses.

[quote name='trq']I think you're thinking of Christian Scientists rather than Scientologists. Scientologists see doctors, just not shrinks, who seem to intrude on the whole Thetan scam thing.

Anyway. All I know is if I have to choose between my god and my kid, Abraham I am not: I'm doing what's best for my kid, and the Big Invisible Guy can take it up with me in the afterlife.[/QUOTE]

fuckers killed Jim Henson. AUGH!~
 
[quote name='mykevermin']


Well, then, that's not religious freedom. There are indeed limits to religious freedom, but this situation is more akin to the need to prosecute the parents for neglect/abuse.
[/quote]

Yeah, that's the Plan B. If their plan isn't working, they need to get real help or face charges of neglect, instead of letting their kid suffer and die. I in no way condoned their actions.
 
These types of issues come up a lot reconciling religious beliefs and the practice of medicine (though thankfully not often to such an extreme degree). I'm actually on the hospital committee that's formulating an official protocol for dealing with these types of situations. In particular, Jehovah's witnesses refuse to accept blood transfusions as part of their beliefs; however as a matter of procedure, we require consent for blood transfusions for surgical or other invasive procedures in case of complications (or simply because it is required) and surgeons were uncomfortable both ethically and legally in being put on the spot to take responsibility for patient care with these types of limits. It gets even stickier when dealing with pediatric cases where the parents are the ones that give consent and thus impose their beliefs on the treatment of their children.
 
I didn't think you did. It's a tough call, though. Freedom includes (as we're far too often reminded) the freedom to do *incredibly* stupid things and make *incredibly* stupid decisions.

What's difficult to parse out is, now that this girl is dead, and charges may not be filed (just my opinion, but I am pretty confident that a happy white christian family will NOT have charges filed against them - but if this was a Muslim practice with the same cause and same result, it would be an immensely different story). But the illegal activity did not occur at the time of death of the child - it was all the poorly made, but protected as individual liberties, decisions the parents made. So, ultimately, the lesson learned is that some things are potentially legal and illegal at the same time, but the metric of determining legality (death) makes the situation somewhat difficult to want to deal with. You'd like to think someone would have stepped in earlier to prevent death, but that would impede on the family's right to be incredibly, incredibly, incredibly fuckin' stupid.

And that just wouldn't be American.
 
I remember reading 'proof' that prayer works, where these people planted two patches of grass, but prayed for only one of them, and that one grew faster. :roll:
 
I'd go the child neglect no matter the mens rea. I'm really getting tire all of the displaced accountability in society. With freedom comes the consequences of ones actions.
 
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