HD-DVD add-on now available - General Discussion (HARDWARE only)

[quote name='Sarang01']What about the Sony problem? Personally I just find that petty.[/quote]

I don't have a sony ps3, so it doesn't make a difference to me if they are having problems. I like my xbox 360 HD add on, but it would be nice to have either hdmi or better update on the vga.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']i would like to see improved support for the vga as well, I picked it up when i got the player, and the image was about 1/2 the size of my tv. My resolution is 1920 x 1080 pixels. I would hope they will have an hdmi accessory soon, as I would rather that then the vga cable[/QUOTE]

Ever hear that Major Nelson pod cast interview with the guy talking about 1080p support. According to them every TV that does 1080p has VGA and supports it through VGA and some component. Turns out they were basically lying on both accounts, and for some TVs that do they somehow screwed things up.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']I don't have a sony ps3, so it doesn't make a difference to me if they are having problems. I like my xbox 360 HD add on, but it would be nice to have either hdmi or better update on the vga.[/QUOTE]

I think he means the fact that with the 1080p update you actually can't get 1080p via VGA on some 1080p cabable Sony TVs even though the TV supports it through VGA.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']You have to be joking, $50 shipped?!?! Listen I think we need to temporarily revoke your CAG membership and reeducate you on what constitutes "cheap". I mean are these even official releases (Region-free generally indicates that the studio and producers get nothing, ie a boot or semi-boot)?[/QUOTE]

Note the price and format. Do you REALLY think any HK companies have managed to pull this off yet? I mean shit I haven't heard about modchips yet. Also that HD-DVD of Shinobi has been around forever up at PA as Region Free.
Note I mention these games as eye candy since U.S. devs. won't get their head out of their asses to pick up the rights to these movies for the U.S. on HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. Have you actually SEEN "Volcano High" yet?! Also "Ashura-no go Hitomi" looks like a good test to see what CGI related product would look like on the next gen. HD formats, see it giving you an idea of what the FF7 movie would look like on Blu-Ray.
If you'd check these movies you'd also notice Volcano High has NO English sub support which leads credence to the idea it's more for the Japanese and Koreans who have an HD-DVD player and for people like me who like Martial Arts and Martial Arts Fantasy who've pretty much been ignored for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray over here. Same goes worldwide for both new formats with Anime until lately. I don't get why Studio Ghibli tiltles have hit either format yet.
Region Free IS sometimes, though usually rarely, official. My "History Of BoA" Region Free UMD is probably official considering it's UMD for crying out loud and how much UMD piracy have you heard of?
edit: Yeah that's more what I mean Duo but I thought the details were that the component wouldn't even work running through the HD-DVD for the Sony though I suppose I most have to worry if they release HDMI support and it doesn't work there.

I couldn't buy all that shit right now Duo. Too much on my plate with getting Tengai, Spectral Force 3, Blue Dragon and Tokyo Xtreme Racer X. Note that Blue Dragon Asian version or Tengai will be the first.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']Note the price and format. Do you REALLY think any HK companies have managed to pull this off yet? I mean shit I haven't heard about modchips yet. Also that HD-DVD of Shinobi has been around forever up at PA as Region Free.
Note I mention these games as eye candy since U.S. devs. won't get their head out of their asses to pick up the rights to these movies for the U.S. on HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. Have you actually SEEN "Volcano High" yet?! Also "Ashura-no go Hitomi" looks like a good test to see what CGI related product would look like on the next gen. HD formats, see it giving you an idea of what the FF7 movie would look like on Blu-Ray.
If you'd check these movies you'd also notice Volcano High has NO English sub support which leads credence to the idea it's more for the Japanese and Koreans who have an HD-DVD player and for people like me who like Martial Arts and Martial Arts Fantasy who've pretty much been ignored for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray over here. Same goes worldwide for both new formats with Anime until lately. I don't get why Studio Ghibli tiltles have hit either format yet.
Region Free IS sometimes, though usually rarely, official. My "History Of BoA" Region Free UMD is probably official considering it's UMD for crying out loud and how much UMD piracy have you heard of?
edit: Yeah that's more what I mean Duo but I thought the details were that the component wouldn't even work running through the HD-DVD for the Sony though I suppose I most have to worry if they release HDMI support and it doesn't work there.

I couldn't buy all that shit right now Duo. Too much on my plate with getting Tengai, Spectral Force 3, Blue Dragon and Tokyo Xtreme Racer X. Note that Blue Dragon Asian version or Tengai will be the first.[/QUOTE]

Okay it maybe offical and look damn pretty (the only one I've seen is Volcano High), but never ever would I pay $50 for a single film. No collector's edition of just one film itself costs that much, usually they have random crap packed in at least, jeez man Criterion Collection editions usually don't even get that high.

Edit:
[quote name='sarang01']I don't get why Studio Ghibli tiltles have hit either format yet.[/quote]

Dunno really, but I blame Disney, then again I blame them for a great many things only because it brings me joy for some reason...
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']Ever hear that Major Nelson pod cast interview with the guy talking about 1080p support. According to them every TV that does 1080p has VGA and supports it through VGA and some component. Turns out they were basically lying on both accounts, and for some TVs that do they somehow screwed things up.[/QUOTE]
yes I did, and yes they were
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']I think he means the fact that with the 1080p update you actually can't get 1080p via VGA on some 1080p cabable Sony TVs even though the TV supports it through VGA.[/quote]

if that is what he meant, then yes that is some fucked up shit. But both of the complaints are horrible.
 
I hope everyone realizes that 1080i = 1080p if your TV set supports inverse telecine or "3:2 pulldown". A 1080i signal contains all the information that a 1080p signal has, the 1080i signal just needs to be deinterlaced using inverse telecine and you get a perfect 1080p signal.

99% of HDTVs support inverse telecine/3:2 pulldown.
 
[quote name='Ruined']I hope everyone realizes that 1080i = 1080p if your TV set supports inverse telecine or "3:2 pulldown". A 1080i signal contains all the information that a 1080p signal has, the 1080i signal just needs to be deinterlaced using inverse telecine and you get a perfect 1080p signal.

99% of HDTVs support inverse telecine/3:2 pulldown.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but Hd-DVDs are encoded in 1080p and if somebody pays the extra premium for a 1080p TV they should be able to take advantage as such without having to rely on the TVs picture correction to do it. Plus there is no 1080i option for the VGA cables, so if that is the regular connection one is using on their TV is VGa they either have to switch back to component (which maybe occupied) or take the lumps. An unlikely situation, but an unfortunate and possible one. Personally I think 1080p is an overrated marketing tool, but the principle of the lies and just the fact that if a company says it'll work in real 1080p, then it ought to output to your capable TV in real 1080p, no hang ups involved.

Bottomline, they should've done more research and testing before they hurry it out. To me it seems as though they rushed it to get the word out before the competetion hit. I'm sure if this was a Sony or Nintendo console you'd have no problem agreeing with that feeing...
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']Yes, but Hd-DVDs are encoded in 1080p and if somebody pays the extra premium for a 1080p TV they should be able to take advantage as such without having to rely on the TVs picture correction to do it. Plus there is no 1080i option for the VGA cables, so if that is the regular connection one is using on their TV is VGa they either have to switch back to component (which maybe occupied) or take the lumps. An unlikely situation, but an unfortunate and possible one. Personally I think 1080p is an overrated marketing tool, but the principle of the lies and just the fact that if a company says it'll work in real 1080p, then it ought to output to your capable TV in real 1080p, no hang ups involved.

Bottomline, they should've done more research and testing before they hurry it out. To me it seems as though they rushed it to get the word out before the competetion hit. I'm sure if this was a Sony or Nintendo console you'd have no problem agreeing with that feeing...[/QUOTE]

WTF are you going on about? "picture correction"? Deinterlacing is simply a way to change the way a picture is displayed with no signal loss. In fact, "1080i" actually contains data closer to the original 1080p24 source than most "1080p" outputs. Why? Because most 1080p is 1080p60, and 60 frames is not a multiple of 24 frames meaning you will be seeing judder/choppy motion from the 3:2 cadence in the signal. With 1080i60 (thats 60 fields, not frames) you can deinterlace to 1080p24, 1080p48, 1080p60, 1080p72, etc... You will see many more 1080p72 sets in 2007, and on those sets its likely 1080i60 will look better than 1080p60.

Further, the VGA output of the XBOX 360 allows for 1080p HD DVD with the dashboard update released a month ago, so I have no idea what you are talking about here either. For HD DVD 360 can output 720p/1080i over component (1080p component for games) and up to 1080p via VGA on all sources. Most digital sets these days have a VGA input in addition to HDMI/Component.

Finally, I have no idea what you are talking about "research and testing." Sony's idea to build Blu-Ray into the PS3 was a fucking stupid idea, as evidenced by their currently getting their asses kicked in the sales department. Microsoft by far made a better choice, launch with DVD and release an HD DVD addon for movies a year later. Because of this, they now have over 7 million consoles sold when Sony has been unable to break 500k. Hell, Wii is destroying PS3 as well. And now, with Blu-Ray getting killed in the format war by HD DVD, why would a gamer spend $200 more on a PS3 when 360 offers the same or better graphics and the ability to upgrade to HD DVD in the future? Blu-Ray may very well sink Sony's boat as it has failed them both in the movie (failure to beat HD DVD) and game (killing PS3 supply) departments... I think it's Sony who should have done their research :)
 
[quote name='Ruined']WTF are you going on about? "picture correction"? Deinterlacing is simply a way to change the way a picture is displayed with no signal loss. In fact, "1080i" actually contains data closer to the original 1080p24 source than most "1080p" outputs. Why? Because most 1080p is 1080p60, and 60 frames is not a multiple of 24 frames meaning you will be seeing judder/choppy motion from the 3:2 cadence in the signal. With 1080i60 (thats 60 fields, not frames) you can deinterlace to 1080p24, 1080p48, 1080p60, 1080p72, etc... You will see many more 1080p72 sets in 2007, and on those sets its likely 1080i60 will look better than 1080p60.

Further, the VGA output of the XBOX 360 allows for 1080p HD DVD with the dashboard update released a month ago, so I have no idea what you are talking about here either. For HD DVD 360 can output 720p/1080i over component (1080p component for games) and up to 1080p via VGA on all sources. Most digital sets these days have a VGA input in addition to HDMI/Component.

Finally, I have no idea what you are talking about "research and testing." Sony's idea to build Blu-Ray into the PS3 was a fucking stupid idea, as evidenced by their currently getting their asses kicked in the sales department. Microsoft by far made a better choice, launch with DVD and release an HD DVD addon for movies a year later. Because of this, they now have over 7 million consoles sold when Sony has been unable to break 500k. Hell, Wii is destroying PS3 as well. And now, with Blu-Ray getting killed in the format war by HD DVD, why would a gamer spend $200 more on a PS3 when 360 offers the same or better graphics and the ability to upgrade to HD DVD in the future? Blu-Ray may very well sink Sony's boat as it has failed them both in the movie (failure to beat HD DVD) and game (killing PS3 supply) departments... I think it's Sony who should have done their research :)[/quote]You're like epobirs, only more focused in your knowledge. How the hell do you know all this stuff?
 
[quote name='Ruined']WTF are you going on about? "picture correction"? Deinterlacing is simply a way to change the way a picture is displayed with no signal loss. In fact, "1080i" actually contains data closer to the original 1080p24 source than most "1080p" outputs. Why? Because most 1080p is 1080p60, and 60 frames is not a multiple of 24 frames meaning you will be seeing judder/choppy motion from the 3:2 cadence in the signal. With 1080i60 (thats 60 fields, not frames) you can deinterlace to 1080p24, 1080p48, 1080p60, 1080p72, etc... You will see many more 1080p72 sets in 2007, and on those sets its likely 1080i60 will look better than 1080p60.[/quote]

So changing the picture to better conform with the TV (singal loss is beside the point) is not correcting it an anyway? Funny, I always thought that if you take something and change it to work better for something else then you are in fct correcting it. IIRC 3:2 pulldown was designed for film/video correction in what is essentially DVDs (and other NTSC signals). That its basic purpose as shown here,here,and here. Besides if somehting is changing the frames and fields of a film to conform with your TV more then it's correcting the signal being sent ot the TV. This is why 3:2 pulldown is often referred to as 3:2 correction or 3:2 film correction in some circles. It's a form of correcting the pciture signal sent to the TV, I don't see what else you'd call that if not some form of correction. Babble all you like but that is what 3:2 pulldown does, it's good thing that often does it job without notice. Like I said 1080p is more of a marketing gimmick, nonetheless saying you are giving real 1080p output via VGA only to have it not work and then have someone switch to 1080i via component is not a good thing. If you can tell me why 3:2 pulldown was created, if not to correct NTSC video signals for better use on TVs, then I'd love to hear it...

[quote name='Ruined']
Further, the VGA output of the XBOX 360 allows for 1080p HD DVD with the dashboard update released a month ago, so I have no idea what you are talking about here either. For HD DVD 360 can output 720p/1080i over component (1080p component for games) and up to 1080p via VGA on all sources. Most digital sets these days have a VGA input in addition to HDMI/Component.[/quote]

Agian look at the context of the discussion. Nowhere did I mention it can't do it or the resolutions HD-DVD can do, I said it doesn't work on some displays that are 1920x1080 capable via a VGA input. If you could read I would've thought you could've grasped a concept like context, obviously I was wrong. And actually while the majority still have VGA inputs, some are dropping them. Very few plasmas have VGA inputs at all and Mitsuibishi (for some stupid reason) nixed VGA from every one of thier 2006 lineup. Also some 1080p capable sets with VGA actually have a "dumbed down" input that maxes out at a lower resolution. My other point was that accoriding to Major Nelson and his podcast buddy all 1080p sets have VGa and all of them run a 1920x1080, only that's flatout wrong. You should work for Major Nelson though, you sure can spin like he does.

[quote name='Ruined']
Finally, I have no idea what you are talking about "research and testing." Sony's idea to build Blu-Ray into the PS3 was a fucking stupid idea, as evidenced by their currently getting their asses kicked in the sales department. Microsoft by far made a better choice, launch with DVD and release an HD DVD addon for movies a year later. Because of this, they now have over 7 million consoles sold when Sony has been unable to break 500k. Hell, Wii is destroying PS3 as well. And now, with Blu-Ray getting killed in the format war by HD DVD, why would a gamer spend $200 more on a PS3 when 360 offers the same or better graphics and the ability to upgrade to HD DVD in the future? Blu-Ray may very well sink Sony's boat as it has failed them both in the movie (failure to beat HD DVD) and game (killing PS3 supply) departments... I think it's Sony who should have done their research :)[/QUOTE]

Again you've proven all you jargon and BS amounts for nothing when you take someone out of context. This is like arguing with somebody on the VS. forum, totally devoid of reason. My "research and testing" comment had not so much to do with the HD-DVD drive or the 360 for God's sake. It was talking about the 1080p update. That was what was rushed IMO, I wasn't trying to dupe you into another one of your fanboyish tirades, simply pointing out the fact that maybe with some more time and testing they could've got the update working for ALL sets that use 1920x1080 resolutions on VGA. There's also that conspiracy theory (that I don't really buy) that they did it to only screw Sony TVs. Probably rubbish, but considering Sony's TVs are the highest selling 1080p cabable sets you'd think they would've tested it.

In short, if you want to prove a point, then fine, but don't act like an ass by basically ignoring the context of everything said prior, to just try and prove your point. The techno-speak may distract some, but if you're quoting me and least bother to read what I've said and respond to that, don't go into some rant over something else.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']Okay it maybe offical and look damn pretty (the only one I've seen is Volcano High), but never ever would I pay $50 for a single film. No collector's edition of just one film itself costs that much, usually they have random crap packed in at least, jeez man Criterion Collection editions usually don't even get that high.[/QUOTE]

Buying movies in Japan has always been more expensive than in North America. It was like that even for VHS.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']For anyone that cares, Superman combo disk is $19.99 at walmart right now. I went to bb and cc and it was $35.[/QUOTE]

As always YMMV with WalMart. They price things different at each store. I could not even find a HD DVD at the one closest to my work....where are they located in the store?
 
[quote name='doubledown']As always YMMV with WalMart. They price things different at each store. I could not even find a HD DVD at the one closest to my work....where are they located in the store?[/QUOTE]
at mine the HDDVDs are w/ the new release DVDs
 
[quote name='doubledown']As always YMMV with WalMart. They price things different at each store. I could not even find a HD DVD at the one closest to my work....where are they located in the store?[/QUOTE]

True. I read about it online though, I am relatively sure it's nation wide, but not every walmart carries hd-dvd. I went to 3. One didn't carry, one was sold out.
 
2 quick questions. When the CC closest to me receive more HD DVD add ons I plan on picking one up. Do they still come with King Kong? Also I want to take advantage of the deal amazon has. Can anyone recommend any good HD DVDs?
 
[quote name='DomLando']2 quick questions. When the CC closest to me receive more HD DVD add ons I plan on picking one up. Do they still come with King Kong? Also I want to take advantage of the deal amazon has. Can anyone recommend any good HD DVDs?[/quote]They should, though I'm not sure on the production numbers on the batch that come with the disc. There's a sticker on the front that states the drives comes with the disc though, so at least you'll know.
 
[quote name='SteveMcQ']They should, though I'm not sure on the production numbers on the batch that come with the disc. There's a sticker on the front that states the drives comes with the disc though, so at least you'll know.[/QUOTE]
Ok Thanks
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']True. I read about it online though, I am relatively sure it's nation wide, but not every walmart carries hd-dvd. I went to 3. One didn't carry, one was sold out.[/quote]

yeah..none of my walmarts carry HD DVDs...glad the targets do...
 
Interesting article on Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD and how consoles are affecting the sales:

Did Sony Kill Blu-ray?

This is more of a short update, but if you are watching PS3 sales , you know that the company will have a hard time hitting 600,000 units sold by year end, and there are already rumors that it may have to recall some of the initial systems for problems.
This follows battery and camera recalls that have many questioning Sony's ability to execute right now. Sony just experienced an executive shake-up that may put the company in better shape. When a company has as many problems as it had over the last 12 months, corporate should -- and generally does -- take the majority of the blame.
The interesting thing is that when Microsoft and Sony came down on opposite sides, many assumed that Microsoft wouldn't even get a vote. No one anticipated that simply by creating a low cost HD DVD accessory, it could change that dynamic dramatically. It shouldn't have been a surprise, given that those of us who thought Blu-ray would initially win believed it because of projected PS3 sales -- and PS3 should have created a decisive win for Sony and Blu-ray.
Unfortunately, there were massive production problems and cost overruns, and Sony could only get a fraction of the systems into the market channel. As a result, Microsoft is projected to have 10 million Xbox 360s by the end of this year, against Sony's 600,000 PS3s. If Microsoft has just a 20 percent attach rate for its US$200 drive -- which is selling out, by the way -- it will have nearly 4x the number of HD DVD drives in consumer hands.
If you think about it, Sony also ends the year behind Nintendo , which is expected to sell around 1 million Wii game systems. This suggests that while the PS3 should have assured the success of Blu-ray, Blu-ray may have assured the failure of the PS3 -- at least for 2006. Now that is just weird.

http://www.technewsworld.com/story/54532.html
 
Damn it, I watched an HD-DVD on my friend's 360 last night and now I have to try and convince myself that it didn't look that much better than a DVD and that it won't be as big of a difference on my TV. This sucks, I don't want to buy any of my movies again. Who the hell snuck into my house last night and put all these artifacts into my DVD's? Noooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
[quote name='shipwreck']Damn it, I watched an HD-DVD on my friend's 360 last night and now I have to try and convince myself that it didn't look that much better than a DVD and that it won't be as big of a difference on my TV. This sucks, I don't want to buy any of my movies again. Who the hell snuck into my house last night and put all these artifacts into my DVD's? Noooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

Well, I managed to get through that problem by promising myself I won't re-buy any dvd's, only buy newly released HD.

I'm a firm believer that older material transfered to HD-DVD won't be a huge difference, compared to new releases.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Well, I managed to get through that problem by promising myself I won't re-buy any dvd's, only buy newly released HD.

I'm a firm believer that older material transfered to HD-DVD won't be a huge difference, compared to new releases.[/quote]
That is not true. I got the Mission Impossible collection yesterday from Buy.com and MI2 didnt look quite as sharp as MI3 did but it still looked way better than the DVD, and it is my favorite MI movie so Im glad I re-bought it.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Well, I managed to get through that problem by promising myself I won't re-buy any dvd's, only buy newly released HD.

I'm a firm believer that older material transfered to HD-DVD won't be a huge difference, compared to new releases.[/QUOTE]

Things can get better. Take, for example, Crierion's first release of Seven Samurai. It looked alright when it came out, but there are scratches and artifacts everywhere. The re-release is flawless. Night and Day. It could only get better on HD-DVD. This movie came out in 1954. Older releases will definitely benefit from HD-DVD.
 
Damn it guys, shut up. I already convinced myself that there isn't a big difference. I can't afford to rebuy my dvd catelog!

hehe, actually I guess it just comes down to the individual movie. Best to read reviews of them and see how they fair. Some movies are authored well, others aren't.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']
I'm a firm believer that older material transfered to HD-DVD won't be a huge difference, compared to new releases.[/QUOTE]

Sorry but this is completely incorrect.

HDNet Movies plays classic movies (50s, 60s) in HD all the time and they SMOKE the current dvds.

Keep in mind that HDNet Movies' HD is lower bitrate and resolution than HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.

Go look at "The Searchers", a John Wayne movie, from the 50s that was released for HD-DVD -- it looks pretty damn good, and probably better than Full Metal Jacket and Perfect Storm.

Newer movies are shot "stylistically" -- and just because they look "soft" doesn't mean they're bad. That's just the way the director intended it to be -- see Sky Captain and War of the Worlds for examples of an intentionally soft picture.

and ...Film (35 mm) has at least 4 x the resolution of 1080p HDTV, so anything that was shot on film originally can be transferred to HD.
 
[quote name='gsr']Sorry but this is completely incorrect.

HDNet Movies plays classic movies (50s, 60s) in HD all the time and they SMOKE the current dvds.

Keep in mind that HDNet Movies' HD is lower bitrate and resolution than HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.

Go look at "The Searchers", a John Wayne movie, from the 50s that was released for HD-DVD -- it looks pretty damn good, and probably better than Full Metal Jacket and Perfect Storm.

Newer movies are shot "stylistically" -- and just because they look "soft" doesn't mean they're bad. That's just the way the director intended it to be -- see Sky Captain and War of the Worlds for examples of an intentionally soft picture.

and ...Film (35 mm) has at least 4 x the resolution of 1080p HDTV, so anything that was shot on film originally can be transferred to HD.[/QUOTE]

I fully agree with you. What I am saying is that I don't believe the studios, on average, spend as much time making old re-releases look as good as they do with new releases. Not to mentions extras, polish, and features.

There is far more to converting old films to HD-DVD than pushing a button and letting it go. It's taken scene by scene, frame by frame, and adjusted for it's format. I am saying this is most likely done to a greater degree of detail on new releases, that's all.

That being said, I'll be happy to rebuy my DVD's in HD-DVD when they start hitting bargain bins. I can think of no movie I already own on DVD that I'm willing to pay $30 for again for marginal to good image improvement.
 
Optical HD Battle May Be Over: HD-DVD Wins

[quote name='Digital Trends']Nearly a year and a half ago I wrote a column saying that Blu-Ray wins or nothing does. This showcases the reality of doing predictions because while the analysis held up, events did not pan out as anticipated and by any current measure HD-DVD will end this year with a decisive win.

The basis for the prediction, which did accurately point out that Sony’s win here might actually cost them more than a loss, was the PS3 and the forecast volumes for that product. Back in August of 2005 we did know that HD-DVD, which used DVD production technology, would be easier to bring to market but it simply did not seem reasonable that Sony would put their PlayStation franchise at risk for anything but a technology they were absolutely certain they could bring to market on time.

That turned out to be incorrect. The problems with Blu-Ray have created extreme cost and execution problems for Sony and now their premier division (instead of being the profit center for Sony) is predicting they will take a $1.5B loss next year largely resulting from this decision. To put this in perspective, just think what would happen if Apple’s iPod group, instead of generating massive profit, suddenly dropped into massive loss. Now you can see why the Sony PlayStation division just changed out their top executives.

Why HD-DVD is Wining

When you talk to either the HD-DVD or the Blu-Ray camp you get the sense that neither actually watches movies much. Both cite features as the reason why folks will pick one or the other. Yes there is a lame shooting game in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (Blu-Ray) and there are a ton of things you can do interactively in HD-DVD (including changing car colors in one scene in The Fast and Furious III: Tokyo Drift). But the movie market moves on quality of movie, price of player, and price and availability of media.

At launch HD-DVD players were about half the price of Blu-Ray players and the movie price for HD-DVD is generally running about $5 less. In addition, many of the new HD-DVD movies also have regular DVD side which means that buyers, most of which will have both HD-DVD and DVD decks, will get better value with HD-DVD than with Blu-Ray – that’s the theory anyways.

All that being said, the killing blow may have been done by Microsoft who decided to bring to market a $200 HD-DVD option for their Xbox 360 which has been in market a year longer than Sony and is projected to have a near 20x installed base advantage by year end (10M Xbox 360 to 600K PS3). Note that both projections are aggressive but Sony was supposed to originally ship 2M PS3s into the market during the 4th quarter and actual numbers (given they had under 200K at launch) may be closer to 400K. And with a recall possible there is a chance they might not even make that. Add to this that the Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive is for movies only, so each one counts for movie viewing while PS3s may not be used to watch movies and you have a situation where the active movie player advantage by year-end should be between 4x and 6x better for HD-DVD over Blu-Ray.

Finally, HP who had been a big Blu-Ray supporter and dominates the Media Center PC market, introduced a $100 HD-DVD upgrade for their PCs (Sony’s Blu-Ray VIAO solution was just dropped to $749). The impact of this last move is still too early to measure but there is no comparably priced (not even close) solution using Blu-Ray.

If you go to Amazon and look you can see HD-DVDs are solidly ahead and this is before the impact of either the Microsoft or the HP moves, many of which won’t be opened until Christmas or haven’t yet been shipped (HP).

Now Sony will stick with a technology for years after the market has decided on another path and they do have some very strong supporters which include Dell, Apple, and Disney. Dell traditionally has been the PC bellwether company, Apple has the most loyal customer base, and Disney is the only Studio that people ask for by name. So these folks, particularly Sony, could drag this on for years. But if that is the case not only will many in the industry not make money, Sony will probably lose the most because they are still the ones doing the heavy lifting (In addition, after the battery problems, neither Dell nor Apple is as close to Sony as they had been).

Right now it appears impossible for Blu-Ray to gain a substantial lead on HD-DVD, even after massive investment, they likely could only close the gap. If the HD market depends on the emergence of one as a standard and Blu-Ray no longer has a chance to be that standard, how long will it be before the Blu-Ray supporters follow HP and switch sides?

Do You Want One Standard?

Now you can evidently help drive this if you are so inclined. There is a petition that has been set up for you to voice your support if you believe that there should be only one and HD-DVD is that one. You can find the petition here . Evidently they had collected 2,300 signatures at the time of this writing.

The petition was put together by HD NOW where the folks have collected a rather interesting list of supporting material which goes far farther than I have on supporting the conclusion that we’ve prematurely crossed over to the point where HD-DVD has won the High Definition DVD competition.

Does Blu-Ray Die?

Blu-Ray has substantial storage capacity advantages for data and could survive as a high capacity personal computer storage medium. While expensive, one non-Sony vendor’s upcoming Blu-Ray laptop solution costs around $800 on top of a $3000 notebook but it gives that product an unmatched removable media capability. But this is a vastly better storage solution for a high-end PC it isn’t a high volume high definition movie watching solution.

So BluRay could indeed survive but probably not for movies only for PS3 games and high-end optical backup. The real question is does the PS3 survive or whether there will ever be a PS4. Some are saying that the PS3 is in deep trouble and some are saying the PS4 will never arrive with massive game defections from PS3 to Xbox.

Wrapping Up

The market wants one solution for High Definition video and we are already starting to see high definition downloads through services like Xbox live. Apple’s iTV is expected to go even further when it launches early next year. It may actually be too late for either of these platforms to move; if folks move aggressively to downloads for high definition content and if High Definition pay per view cable offerings continue to improve, even if I’m correct and HD-DVD has won, it may have actually prevailed too late in the process to survive for long.

Be that as it may, with a 4x to 6x advantage by year end, you’d have to conclude that HD-DVD has reached a point where it can’t lose and Blu-Ray is only now in a position to ensure both platforms lose. That last option still appears most likely if the market doesn’t move aggressively to one HD platform.[/quote]

http://news.digitaltrends.com/talkback158.html

The author believes that Blu-Ray has no hope of "winning" and at best can make both formats lose. Gotta love Sony.
 
[quote name='Ruined']Optical HD Battle May Be Over: HD-DVD Wins



http://news.digitaltrends.com/talkback158.html

The author believes that Blu-Ray has no hope of "winning" and at best can make both formats lose. Gotta love Sony.[/QUOTE]
I hope he's right as far as saying Blu-ray has no hope. But he is definitely wrong in stating that it may be too late for either to survive. The majority of consumers, myself included, want a physical media. Downloading is a great option but I still like having my original manufactured DVD's. I can DL a song but if I like the artist I don't DL the album I go and buy the actual cd. I've only had my Hd player for what... maybe a month and my HD library has already grown to about 17 movies. Sony and its Blu-ray can suck a nut, I won't support that format until I decide to finally get a PS3 or a dual-format player is introduced.
 
That's all well and good, and I want HD-DVD to come out on top of this....HOWEVER, I can't stand these HD-DVD/DVD combo releases. They cost WAY too much compared to just an HD-DVD release.
 
[quote name='Psykoboy2']That's all well and good, and I want HD-DVD to come out on top of this....HOWEVER, I can't stand these HD-DVD/DVD combo releases. They cost WAY too much compared to just an HD-DVD release.[/QUOTE]

That's kind of the way I feel too but for a movie like Miami Vice where the uncut version is on one side in HD-DVD and the theatrical version is on the DVD side, it isn't really as bad. Now for movies like The Break Up where its the same movie on both sides, its a bit of a waste.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Well, I managed to get through that problem by promising myself I won't re-buy any dvd's, only buy newly released HD.
[/quote]

Same here, the only thing stopping me from jumping in the HD-DVD bandwagon is the knowledge it will drop in price. The question for me is how long can I wait?
 
[quote name='gunm']Same here, the only thing stopping me from jumping in the HD-DVD bandwagon is the knowledge it will drop in price. The question for me is how long can I wait?[/QUOTE]

The standalone players will but the 360 add on won't be dropping for at least a year and even then it will only be $50 at most (its already seen as such a cheap alternative that it doesn't need to drop). At that point you won't be getting a pack in movie either...
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']The standalone players will but the 360 add on won't be dropping for at least a year and even then it will only be $50 at most (its already seen as such a cheap alternative that it doesn't need to drop). At that point you won't be getting a pack in movie either...[/quote]

If that's what it takes, so be it. I don't know if I agree that it would only drop $50, though. As an add-on, there's enough missing that it could drop more than that.
 
[quote name='Psykoboy2']That's all well and good, and I want HD-DVD to come out on top of this....HOWEVER, I can't stand these HD-DVD/DVD combo releases. They cost WAY too much compared to just an HD-DVD release.[/QUOTE]

You can find them for $20 if you look.

I am actually hoping that studios start just releasing one SKU for each movie, double sided with both DVD and HD-DVD.... That way when people are ready to upgrade, they will be more inclined to go with HD-DVD.
 
[quote name='Malik112099']yeah..everytime i go into target all the HD-DVDs are $20[/QUOTE]

Even the COMBO discs? My target never has much of a selection.
 
[quote name='doubledown']Even the COMBO discs? My target never has much of a selection.[/QUOTE]

I know walmart has/had superman combo for $20, I got it last week. I believe I have seen others there for $20.
 
I don't really understand waiting for a possible $50 price drop a year or more down the road when you can get $40 off NOW and get a free pack-in movie, but to each their own.

Has anyone been able to find Superman II (Richard Donner Cut) at B&M stores? I've seen Superman Returns but I've yet to see that or the first Superman on the shelves in the HD-DVD section.
 
[quote name='KaneRobot']I don't really understand waiting for a possible $50 price drop a year or more down the road when you can get $40 off NOW and get a free pack-in movie, but to each their own.[/quote]

And why wait for a $50 price drop when you can use that $40 off coupon which is good in december right now?
[quote name='KaneRobot']
Has anyone been able to find Superman II (Richard Donner Cut) at B&M stores? I've seen Superman Returns but I've yet to see that or the first Superman on the shelves in the HD-DVD section.[/QUOTE]

I could swear I saw it in Walmart, but don't recall the price.
 
i saw the 2 superman hd dvd at best buy last week...i am going there 2night, do you want me to pick it up for you if they have it in stock?
 
Via highdefdigest.com

'Clerks II' with six hours of bonus materials, so much of it in fact that it will take two discs to hold it all, making the release a bit of a rarity for HD DVD.

Yow.

This one is going to make me break my "no rebuying" rule...which sucks, since clerks II JUST CAME OUT on DVD. Sounds awesome though. Release is a vague "sometime in January."

[quote name='ryanbph']i saw the 2 superman hd dvd at best buy last week...i am going there 2night, do you want me to pick it up for you if they have it in stock?[/QUOTE]
Ah, thanks, but it's ok. It might be something I throw on an X-mas list and I just wanted to make sure it was out there before I did so.
 
ironically superman 2 is the only hd dvd that has shipped from my buy.com order.. fucking part 1 and returns are "on order". im scared of cancelling because dont know how the refund process works with g checkout
 
[quote name='KaneRobot']I don't really understand waiting for a possible $50 price drop a year or more down the road when you can get $40 off NOW and get a free pack-in movie, but to each their own.

Has anyone been able to find Superman II (Richard Donner Cut) at B&M stores? I've seen Superman Returns but I've yet to see that or the first Superman on the shelves in the HD-DVD section.[/quote]

Yeah, that too. I did contemplate that, but I'm just wondering when it could go down even lower than that.
 
Study: Consumers Prefer HD DVD Over Blu-Ray

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=19223

An analysis of online discussions on next generation DVD formats HD DVD and Blu-Ray gives the early edge to HD DVD. Cited as reasons are the lack of consumer trust in Sony, as well as gamer displeasure with selling Blu-ray in association with PlayStation 3.

Cymfony, a market influence analytics company, issued a Consumer Opinion and Trends report, "A Blue Christmas for Blu-ray," examining consumer market perception of next-generation high-definition video platforms HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc.

According to the study, positive discussions about HD DVD are 46% higher than Blu-ray, with over twice as many post authors stating being "impressed with HD DVD" versus "impressed with Blu-ray". Negative Blu-ray conversation indicates lack of consumer trust in Sony, as well as gamer displeasure with selling Blu-ray in association with PlayStation 3, according to the research.
 
[quote name='KaneRobot']Via highdefdigest.com



Yow.

This one is going to make me break my "no rebuying" rule...which sucks, since clerks II JUST CAME OUT on DVD. Sounds awesome though. Release is a vague "sometime in January."


Ah, thanks, but it's ok. It might be something I throw on an X-mas list and I just wanted to make sure it was out there before I did so.[/quote]
Awesome news on Clerks II, I'm so glad I missed the "sales" last week. $17.99 was the cheapest I could find, now I'll just use that $17.99 towards the HD-DVD version. I wonder if they would consider the re-release Clerks on HD-DVD as well.
 
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