How Nintendo has tricked us all with the Virtual Console

[quote name='Skylander7']Almost EVERY time I enter a gas station, somebody is in line in front of me purchasing a 40 cent flavored cigar. It never fails :)[/quote]

On your way to buy a $4 cartion of menthols? ;) I have to admit I somehow enjoyed reading your exploits simply because it was damn near a short story centered around one man's conquest to...buy fucking cigarettes. Sorry, I'm a fan of the mundane.

On a side note.. they recently found a meth lab in a building at an elementary school about 30 miles south of here.
Click to expand...

Is it in a rural area (I'm trying not to assume, despite it being ALAfuckINGBAMA ;))? Meth and oxys are so common in rural America right now (pretty much all around the smoky mountains and other southeast states) it's just fucking horrible.

Now, that sufficiently derailed the topic; but, ever since someone remarked that Nintendo isn't "tricking" anyone, I figure the discussion is more or less over.
 
Nintendo betrayed and murdered my family, burned my birthcity to the ground, and ran over my sweet puppy dog, Waggles.

On the other hand, it sure would be nice to consolidate my NES, SNES, Genesis, and Gamecube into the one console. The TV area is just a mess of wires and carts, let me tell you.

I'm conflicted, dear CAGgers. Should I buy the Wii or not?


Hugs and Kisses,
--Dia--
 
[quote name='pdrydia']Nintendo betrayed and murdered my family, burned my birthcity to the ground, and ran over my sweet puppy dog, Waggles.

On the other hand, it sure would be nice to consolidate my NES, SNES, Genesis, and Gamecube into the one console. The TV area is just a mess of wires and carts, let me tell you.

I'm conflicted, dear CAGgers. Should I buy the Wii or not?


Hugs and Kisses,
--Dia--[/QUOTE]

Well you bring up a lot of good points. I'm guessing that Nintendo killed Waggles to replace your dog with one of those new fangled Nintendogs. I'd say pass on it now and see if Nintendo tries smiting you anymore. If they don't, pick it up after a price drop.
 
[quote name='pdrydia']
On the other hand, it sure would be nice to consolidate my NES, SNES, Genesis, and Gamecube into the one console. The TV area is just a mess of wires and carts, let me tell you.
-[/QUOTE]

Honestly, this is a huge selling point for me... Nintendo seems to be taking the VC really seriously, and it'll be nice having 6 systems or so all in one box.

Now, all I need to do is to find a Wii!
 
Admiral-Ackbar-trap.jpg
 
[quote name='Roufuss']Honestly, this is a huge selling point for me... Nintendo seems to be taking the VC really seriously, and it'll be nice having 6 systems or so all in one box.

Now, all I need to do is to find a Wii![/QUOTE]

7 you mean.

Wii, Gamecube, NES, SNES, Genesis, N64 and Turbografx

:)
 
[quote name='lord_ebonstone']so shud i bye teh virtuel consoal gaems?11[/quote]I think we've decided that it depends on whether or not Nintendo has run over your dog in the Nintendelorian.
 
[quote name='sendmesomegames']I do not own a Wii nor do I have any plans of purchasing one until the price drops to $150. I just wanted to make that clear as I do not know exactly how the VC is.

This is a business move by Nintendo to market obsolete games since their system is not going to be powerful enough for some of the modern games.
They need to exploit older titles to younger crowds for MONEY that is the thing.

The VC is nothing but emulators and roms the samething that everyone has been playing online for years. The only difference is now all of the sudden they think they should get money for it.

Nintendo is not being original with this at all it's the home programmers that made all of this possible. The game community online made emulation possible so Nintendo/Gametap came along to profit from it.

The virtual console again is not original on Nintendos part since the XBOX has been doing it for a couple of years.

I think everyone is upset because they want to play these games on WII but Nintendo decided not without a steep cost.[/quote]
Wow, just wow. That is so idiotic, that I feel like an aura of stupidity has ascended from hell onto me. The reason they think they should get payed for those roms is because, follow me here, THEY OWN THEM. THe emulators on the XBOX's were completely illegal (the ROMs anyway) as well as the reverse engineering of the XBox.

And no, home programmers did not contribute to Nintendos VC in anyway other than coincidence. They developed their emulation software seperately from Nintendo.

Nintendo is charging money because they own the ROMS (which is the game itself). Please do not think you should be able to download these for free and bitch about it when the person that owns them wants to charge you. Someone else can destroy his first argument, I'm tired.

BTW I am not a nintendo/sony/microsoft fanboy, just a casual gamer with knowledge.
 
But do you know what I really find groovy about the VC?
-- owning the games legally
-- consolidating my consoles, controllers, and other peripheals
-- owning the games and their manuals in an easy-to-store format!
-- buying/playing games for systems I never before owned
-- buying/playing games I've never owned/played before
-- buying/playing games without having to find a store/seller who has it
-- buying/playing games without having to worry about the cart failing/not working to begin with
-- not having to worry about ninja stealing the cart, or the cat eating the manual!
​
I guess I'd be a little more upset about paying $5/$8/$10 for games I already paid for, if it weren't for that: [1] I never paid for any games from the NES/SNES/N64 generation--I was a frikkin' kid, I had no income, and [2] the prices seem resonable enough to me, considering both the benefits of the product's medium and the fact that I don't have to buy things I don't want to.

It is something of a small shame that I can't find a Wii anywhere. At least the Wii and VC libraries should be larger by the time we start finding them regularly in-stock.
 
[quote name='lordwow']I think the real crime is that SNES games were sold for $50+ at release.[/quote]Seriously. It's one thing to convince your parents to put forth the one-time expense for a video game console, especially when you've three other siblings who're working on them for the same goal. It's fairly reasonable to make the big, once-a-year gift to all the kids a video game console. But then you get into the fact that your sibs and you don't all like the same games, and games cost upwards of $80 new, and even $25-40 used. And, well, it's not reasonable to expect your parents to keep reinvesting that much money into the system.

S'why I love my little DS (and being an adult gamer--ah, income!) I like the average game being $25-30 new, and being able to walk into a store and find, between the DS and GBA sections, a $10-15 used game to entertain me for a good while.
 
I think that VC pricing is only slightly overpriced. I think why alot of people are whining is because they've played these games before. But remember: This is a game site! People tend to know alot about games. heck, they may even own old games. But alot of people who buy the Wii may not have had experience with these older games, thus enjoying them more that you who played these back in the golden days. And a lot a smaller kids will buy the Wii. I'm not saying it's a kid's system, but it is complex enough to satisfy veteran gamers, and simple enough so kids can have the same amount of fun. So if you wanna whine about the VC pricing Mr. Addiction, go ahead. But, remember, there are millions of kids who've never had the pleasure of playing mario kart 64, and would be glad to pay $10 for it. So please, stop your bitching.
 
[quote name='Kendal']Can I make threads about my video game reviews and be an attention whore too?[/quote]

It's amazing how ridiculous people can be. Of course, because everyone knows I'm always out for attention.

Look I'm a journalist and am trying to build up my new project. Whenever I feel like we have an article at Sega Nerds that I feel will garner a bit of attention, I Digg it and post it at various forums.

It's not so I can be an "attention whore" or to try to piss people off.

We're trying to be the number one source for Sega info out there, and if by posting my site's articles on CAG makes an attention whore, then so be it. And if Cheapy or any of the mods have an issue with me posting an article every now and then, then I'll stop.
 
This may have been stated already but using this logic, a game like Zelda that has a ton of development cost should cost a lot more than other games becuase it cost Nintendo more money to make it. Likewise, we should pay more for movies like Spiderman and Lord of the Rings because they cost more to make than comedies, etc.

It doesn't matter what it costs Nintendo to sell us these games, it matters what people are willing to pay for them.

Trust me, if N64 games weren't selling(or don't sell very well) Nintendo will drop the price accordingly.

You can thank Adam Smith and his invisible hand.


[quote name='Grave_Addiction']Ask yourself and think how much cost is incurred by Nintendo for getting these games available to download. It ain't that much, so why should N64 games cost us more than NES games?[/QUOTE]
 
I don't own a Wii but the VC kind of interests me. Do they have a bunch of these old games on there or just releasing them in small amounts? It would be nice to have them on one system so I can possibly get rid of the N64 cartridges and get some sega games and all the old snes games I used to have. Since the cartridges might eventually stop working, it would be nice to have them all on one system like that. I don't have plans to get a Wii anytime soon but I might eventually.
 
[quote name='hufferstl']This may have been stated already but using this logic, a game like Zelda that has a ton of development cost should cost a lot more than other games becuase it cost Nintendo more money to make it.[/quote]
You do realize that this is the exact reason we have normal and budget-priced games, right? And it's the exact reason why Xbox 360 and PS3 games are $60 instead of $50 like they were last generation.

And since development costs for the Wii aren't as much as they are on the 360 and PS3, Wii games are cheaper, too.
 
I have a better idea for the pricing of the download service... All games will be priced based upon how often they've been downloaded in the past seven days. The more a game has been downloaded, the more it costs... Don't want to pay the higher price? Wait a few days and perhaps it'll go down. It could be like the EBGames Morning update all over again.

I don't know if this was just someone's idea, a story, or something that's really true, but I once heard of a movie theatre that priced its tickets this way. The idea was that a theatre would sell the first 20% or so movie tickets for each showing super-cheap. The next 20% would be sold regular-cheap. The next 20% would be sold just slightly above average price. The next 20% would be sold above average and the final pack-the-theatre-full tickets would be sold way above average.

(Just throwing out numbers here, but say movie tickets average $7 in your area. The tickets would then be priced something like $2, $5, $8, $11 and $14 each)

The idea is that people would come in to see the cheap movies simply because they're cheap. The more popular movies would be less likely to be crammed-packed full (thus, making it more enjoyable for others) and it would encourage people to come back for a different showing if the one they wanted was already at that upper 60%.

None of this really applies to the VC pricing, but it'd still be a neat idea.
 
[quote name='javeryh']Well... um, yeah I guess so... I have a lot of inner turmoil regarding roms and old IP that isn't really being used anymore. Basically I think our copyright laws need a complete overhaul because when they were originally drafted no one in their wildest dreams could have envisioned the internet and its impact. Now we are trying to shoehorn new laws into the existing framework and it just isn't working. I don't have the answers though and I do think that copyright holders deserve to get paid for their works of art but there has to be some sort of compromise. Morally I have no problem with it though because let's face it I'm a lawyer with little to no morals. ;)[/QUOTE]

Except the IP plainly is being used. That is the whole point of VC, to leverage existing IP propery with a minimum of new investment. It is no different than a decades old movie being released on DVD.

The IP retains market value. VC provides a means for publishers to reach customer interested in the product but that wasn't technologically favorable to the publishers. If anything, the VC is a long overdue answer to the intersection of IP ownership and the internet without any new laws needed.
 
[quote name='lordwow']I think the real crime is that SNES games were sold for $50+ at release. What a ripoff.[/QUOTE]

Not at all. That price was directly based on the cost of the cartridges, which was many times higher per byte back then, the cost of development, and numerous other costs along the way.

Nintendo and third party publishers didn't just pull the number out of their ass. They were entirely aware of the costs and the higher volume potential for lower prices. But that also has to be weighed against the total market potential and the diminishing volume returns for lower prices.

If mask ROM costs magically dropped by half overnight on 1-1-1994, Nintendo and Sega would happily have passed the savings on to customers in pursuit of selling far more games at the same profit margin. But those costs don't drop overnight, they drop over the course of months and years. This is why early SNES hits were eventually revived in the first Player's Choice line at a much lower price than the original SRP. New games commanded the higher prices but also delivered a much higher ROM volume for the money. Where once 4Mb games were at the full price, 16Mb and larger games now dominated. On those occasions when it made sense to release a game of small ROM size, the price could be lower. (FX Chip games were small in size but that was to compensate for the cost of the additional processor in the cartridge.)
 
OP is the most silly thing I've read in a while. Listen, nobody is FORCING you to buy these games. If the price point of a VC game is too much for you here is a simple way to overcome that; DON'T BUY IT. Look, now you haven't been tricked! In fact you're sticking it to them by not buying it!! HA~
 
[quote name='Blackout542']I don't own a Wii but the VC kind of interests me. Do they have a bunch of these old games on there or just releasing them in small amounts? It would be nice to have them on one system so I can possibly get rid of the N64 cartridges and get some sega games and all the old snes games I used to have. Since the cartridges might eventually stop working, it would be nice to have them all on one system like that. I don't have plans to get a Wii anytime soon but I might eventually.[/QUOTE]

There are about 30-40 games up now, and they put up new ones each week (on Monday). It is actually nice, because I too have a lot of the carts, but now I don't have to hok up old systems or swap carts out. Just a couple of clicks, and I can switch between R-Type on the TG16 or SMB on the NES.

RD
 
I'm not reading to the end of this thread, largely due to how assanine a majority of the comments are. What a company chooses to do is subjective; my only constructive criticism to your as a journalist it to try and remain objective in the future. While picking a point and sticking to it does generate buzz, it also doesn't allow complete and unbiased illumination- something any major news source will be looking for from you. If you're the editor, then congratulations: the public cares about your opinion.

The article is well paced, and would fit evenly in the Sunday electronics section of our local paper in philly- if, as mentioned, the bias had been a little more disuaded. The writing style isn't too unique, but does an effective job of delivering the information in a format that will make it memorable for a day or two. Overall, not bad, but I'm sure you could write better.
 
[quote name='redline']Odd how they gave us emulated versions (with a case and disc even) for 4 Zelda games (2 NES and 2 N64) on the Cube for $20, with a free subscription to their crummy magazine thrown in too. ;)[/QUOTE]

You've never encountered a limited period promotional discount? Do you ever shop for groceries? A jar of mustard can regularly sell for $3 but be promoted for a limited period at $2. SOP.

It's Nintendo's IP and they can sell it any way they choose. Consumers make their choice whether to buy or not. Whether this means Nintendo fails to make the level of sales they'd hoped is entirely Nintendo's problem. THese are luxury goods and nobody is going to have their life lessened for lack of them if the price isn't acceptable.
 
Tricking would be saying that all games were $1, then charging us current VC prices for them. Tricking = lieing.

Nintento may be overcharging in many people's (mine included) opinions, but that doesn't make them dishonest as the topic implies.

I buy the games that are worth it and avoid the games that are not. I suggest everyone do the same. Speak with your sales or non-sales rather than making whining posts on an Internet messageboard.
 
Zelda TP : $49.99
Excite Truck : $49.99

Halo 3 : $59.99
Superman Returns : $59.99

Do you really think Zelda : TP had less development costs than Superman Returns(or just about any other 360 game that launched at $59)?


Do you thnk these games COST the same amount to make/market???

You are right about the "budget priced" games but those are the exception, not the rule.

And Xbox and PS3 games are $60 instead of $50 because the market is willing to pay extra for them. Yes development costs are the higher, but that doesn't affect that games demand curve.

My main point is that if the price of development had something to do with the games retail price, shouldn't all games cost different amounts(since they all have different budgets)? Instead we have a generic price($50 last gen, $60 now) that 90% of games fall into and the market seems to be OK with that.



[quote name='Grave_Addiction']You do realize that this is the exact reason we have normal and budget-priced games, right? And it's the exact reason why Xbox 360 and PS3 games are $60 instead of $50 like they were last generation.

And since development costs for the Wii aren't as much as they are on the 360 and PS3, Wii games are cheaper, too.[/QUOTE]
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']It's amazing how ridiculous people can be. Of course, because everyone knows I'm always out for attention.

Look I'm a journalist and am trying to build up my new project. Whenever I feel like we have an article at Sega Nerds that I feel will garner a bit of attention, I Digg it and post it at various forums.

It's not so I can be an "attention whore" or to try to piss people off.
[/QUOTE]

Whoa there, cowboy.

If you're going to want to pass yourself off as a journalist, then you damn well better develop some thick skin quick. 'Cuz if you honestly want to do it part time or full time in the public arena, regardless of how much exposure you might get, you're going to get people calling you stupid/worthless/clueless/wrong/whining/etc etc etc, for just about....until the end of time.

Publishing on a website or in a magazine or any other venue for media is for the sole expression of your own ideas. And guess what - not everyone is going to agree. You can sit there and decry everyone as "gosh at least I'm trying to get something published and get my name out there," but that doesn't change the fact that any sort of free exchange of ideas is going to net you a lot of animosity in various degrees.

The two worst things you can do - and you've done both in this thread - is 1) ignore everything that is being said that is contradictory to your points, and 2) get pissed about it. You think Gamespot.com editors don't have a lot of people posting "omfg u r dum!!11" comments all day? 'Cuz I gaurantee you that they do.

So toughen up or stop in your tracks now, 'cuz it's never going to get easier.
 
the vc is a waste of time right now. Nintendo is proving they care just as much for the gamers as they did during the n64 and gamecube era. Face it, NIntendo is just in it for the money and they could care less about gamers. Why is Japan getting all the good VC games? Because they are more picky and require more of an incentive to buy things. Until Nintendo gets their act together and releases VC games that we actually want (besides mario 64) I will continue to ignore the system. I don't care if people think it's trolling or complaining, because it's the truth. One N64 game before 2007??? We just got baseball today? WTF??? If you buy the baseball game for NES than I believe I have the right to come over to your house and beat the crap out of you. It's that stupid. And whoever bought Street Fighter for the SNES is either rich, or forgot about all the other, better Street Fighter games that were released for the SNES after that. Nintendo has you by the balls.

Where is Super Mario World, Mario Kart 64, Star Fox????? Oh, I forgot...Nintendo is waiting until their popularity dies down so they can make money. Greeeeaaatttt idea.
 
[quote name='tayaf69']the vc is a waste of time right now. Nintendo is proving they care just as much for the gamers as they did during the n64 and gamecube era. Face it, NIntendo is just in it for the money and they could care less about gamers. Why is Japan getting all the good VC games? Because they are more picky and require more of an incentive to buy things. Until Nintendo gets their act together and releases VC games that we actually want (besides mario 64) I will continue to ignore the system. I don't care if people think it's trolling or complaining, because it's the truth. One N64 game before 2007??? We just got baseball today? WTF??? If you buy the baseball game for NES than I believe I have the right to come over to your house and beat the crap out of you. It's that stupid. And whoever bought Street Fighter for the SNES is either rich, or forgot about all the other, better Street Fighter games that were released for the SNES after that. Nintendo has you by the balls.

Where is Super Mario World, Mario Kart 64, Star Fox????? Oh, I forgot...Nintendo is waiting until their popularity dies down so they can make money. Greeeeaaatttt idea.[/quote]And Microsoft, Sony, and any other corporations don't care about money? There are people in Nintendo (as in the other 2) that love games and love making them. Twilight Princess is very evidently a labor of love. But in the end, the bottom line is to make money. Nintendo is spacing things out ot maximize profits for themselves as well as their 3rd party developers. In that way, Nintendo today is about as different as they can be from the Nintendo of the past.
 
[quote name='tayaf69']
Where is Super Mario World, Mario Kart 64, Star Fox????? Oh, I forgot...Nintendo is waiting until their popularity dies down so they can make money. Greeeeaaatttt idea.[/QUOTE]

I don't know whether to just call you an idiot or explain this, but I'll go ahead and explain it anyway.

Nintendo needs to trickle them out for a few reasons, not least of which is to encourage third parties to release their games. The ones most fondly and wanted by gamers generally fall into two groups: 1) Nintendo's own library, and 2) RPGs from the SNES era, which almost belong exclusively to Square.

So Nintendo and Square are the big juggernauts of the VC, even though their respective libraries aren't out there yet. However, it would turn off Sega and NEC (whom I can only imagine is in charge of releasing TG16 games) if Nintendo flooded the VC with every Mario, Zelda, character-themed game out there. Who is going to buy other games in the light of an onslaught of things like Mario 64, Mario World, etc?

Not to mention throwing Chrono Trigger, FF4-6, Bahamut Lagoon, and all the other Square franchises would drown out more potential third parties.

Point being is that unless they space it out, they're going to ruin the VC's potential on the grounds that it would not let them secure third parties. 'Cuz even if it's almost purely a cash grab, there'd be no reason to waste the time of Sega and friends.

There's also the fact that they have to scale up their servers as time goes by, make sure the emulators are working, write out the material for the store, create the manuals, etc etc etc.

So it's really not very difficult to figure this out. You should try reasoning things out sometime.

Also, if you think their popularity is going to die out any time soon with 3+ million systems shipped in a little over 6 weeks, you might qualify for free transportation courtesy of short yellow buses for the rest of your life.
 
"Disclosure: I wrote it" is polite when you're pimping your own stuff.

There's nothing convincing in arguing "this platform's games shouldn't inherently be more expensive than this platform's games." A Virtual Console is exactly that; you decide if any of these games are worth your time and money now. Debating over whether the line between antiquated games and genuine games, worth playing in their own right, is to be drawn between the N64 and Gamecube, or NES and SNES, or whatever, is to debate retroactively the significance of 1996 or 1991.

Who cares? The VC is saying, "look, I have gaves, you download them from your couch, I have Super Mario for $5, and Mario 64 for $10." If it's not worth it to you then you don't buy. The comparison to the Sega Genesis Collection was better, but it's still two different markets: at the VC, you're paying to have all of your games in a central location, not worry about discs, and have them now. That appeals to some people. I don't see the big deal generally, but offer me a well-emulated version of Keith Courage for $7 or whatever, and if in a nostalgic mood, I may bite.

It's a vending machine for games. Everyone who uses the more traditional counterpart who's older than five knows that they can get a giant bag of Cheetos and 2 liters of Coke from the store for less than what they pay there, but sometimes it's still worth it to you.
 
[quote name='Strell']I don't know whether to just call you an idiot or explain this, but I'll go ahead and explain it anyway.

Nintendo needs to trickle them out for a few reasons, not least of which is to encourage third parties to release their games. The ones most fondly and wanted by gamers generally fall into two groups: 1) Nintendo's own library, and 2) RPGs from the SNES era, which almost belong exclusively to Square.

So Nintendo and Square are the big juggernauts of the VC, even though their respective libraries aren't out there yet. However, it would turn off Sega and NEC (whom I can only imagine is in charge of releasing TG16 games) if Nintendo flooded the VC with every Mario, Zelda, character-themed game out there. Who is going to buy other games in the light of an onslaught of things like Mario 64, Mario World, etc?

Not to mention throwing Chrono Trigger, FF4-6, Bahamut Lagoon, and all the other Square franchises would drown out more potential third parties.

Point being is that unless they space it out, they're going to ruin the VC's potential on the grounds that it would not let them secure third parties. 'Cuz even if it's almost purely a cash grab, there'd be no reason to waste the time of Sega and friends.

There's also the fact that they have to scale up their servers as time goes by, make sure the emulators are working, write out the material for the store, create the manuals, etc etc etc.

So it's really not very difficult to figure this out. You should try reasoning things out sometime.

Also, if you think their popularity is going to die out any time soon with 3+ million systems shipped in a little over 6 weeks, you might qualify for free transportation courtesy of short yellow buses for the rest of your life.[/QUOTE]

3+ million systems for a launch system. 3+ million systems because people like us couldn't wait to get it. Sales will drop considerably in 2007-2008 as games for xbox and ps3 pick up. I have all 3 systems, so I am by no means biasing anything. You can name call all you want (makes you look like you're in grade school, and maybe you are) but it doesn't deny the fact that the US version of the VC is not doing as well as the Japan version. Sit there on you Nintendo shrine worshiping the developers, I don't care. The truth is, Nintendo has declined with every system after the SNES (in order) and the Wii may be fun, but unless they they make use on their promises (smash brothers in 2007!!!) they will continue to be the 3rd place system. There were hundreds of games for the SNES, N64, NES, Genesis, and TG-16. Don't tell me Nintendo needs to space out games. I would be willing to purchase dozens for each system, but that doesn't mean they have to release a piss-poor game like "baseball". How many times are you willing to pay money the "Mario Brothers"???? Pathetic.
 
[quote name='diaeresis']"Disclosure: I wrote it" is polite when you're pimping your own stuff.

There's nothing convincing in arguing "this platform's games shouldn't inherently be more expensive than this platform's games." A Virtual Console is exactly that; you decide if any of these games are worth your time and money now. Debating over whether the line between antiquated games and genuine games, worth playing in their own right, is to be drawn between the N64 and Gamecube, or NES and SNES, or whatever, is to debate retroactively the significance of 1996 or 1991.

Who cares? The VC is saying, "look, I have gaves, you download them from your couch, I have Super Mario for $5, and Mario 64 for $10." If it's not worth it to you then you don't buy. The comparison to the Sega Genesis Collection was better, but it's still two different markets: at the VC, you're paying to have all of your games in a central location, not worry about discs, and have them now. That appeals to some people. I don't see the big deal generally, but offer me a well-emulated version of Keith Courage for $7 or whatever, and if in a nostalgic mood, I may bite.

It's a vending machine for games. Everyone who uses the more traditional counterpart who's older than five knows that they can get a giant bag of Cheetos and 2 liters of Coke from the store for less than what they pay there, but sometimes it's still worth it to you.[/QUOTE]

I agree with the "if you don't want, don't buy" arguement; however, when I purchased the Wii for Zelda and the VC, I was expecting good games. The original promise was to have more N64 games out. I would have easily waited on buying the system if I knew the vc would be this quiet. For me, it's not about not buying. It's about not having many options. I feel like I spent too much money on the system that I have one game for.
 
[quote name='tayaf69']3+ million systems for a launch system. 3+ million systems because people like us couldn't wait to get it. Sales will drop considerably in 2007-2008 as games for xbox and ps3 pick up. I have all 3 systems, so I am by no means biasing anything. You can name call all you want (makes you look like you're in grade school, and maybe you are) but it doesn't deny the fact that the US version of the VC is not doing as well as the Japan version. Sit there on you Nintendo shrine worshiping the developers, I don't care. The truth is, Nintendo has declined with every system after the SNES (in order) and the Wii may be fun, but unless they they make use on their promises (smash brothers in 2007!!!) they will continue to be the 3rd place system. There were hundreds of games for the SNES, N64, NES, Genesis, and TG-16. Don't tell me Nintendo needs to space out games. I would be willing to purchase dozens for each system, but that doesn't mean they have to release a piss-poor game like "baseball". How many times are you willing to pay money the "Mario Brothers"???? Pathetic.[/QUOTE]

Well that was a brilliant way to argue your point. Really. "It only sold because people couldn't wait to get it." Astounding. You'd almost think Nintendo had some momentum under their own merit!

And I'm not worshipping Nintendo. I'm telling you what their tactic is. You can misconstrue that all you want, and then add on a lot of words that I'm not saying and have not said, but that doesn't change the fact that it makes it look like you can't read. Learn to divorce explanation from useless worshipping, kids. It makes it look like you can understand complex ideas, like "butter on toast is yummy."

I'm not going to enter into an argument you're escaping to because you can't stand to argue the pathetically bad points your trying to make - namely, "Nintendo is third place and always will be." Ok. And that has absolutely nothing to do with your badly argued nonsense, so I can only assume you have no ground to stand on, and instead need to throw in some clueless additional argument that you feel helps yours, when it just weakens your position considerably.

1) The VC needs to space out to help third parties.

and

2) The VC needs to be spaced out to not compete with Wii games sales.

I admit I don't think scenario 2 is possible at this point.

This is the tactic their businessmen agreed on. I am not agreeing with it, I am explaining it, 'cuz it's there, and like it or not, that's the path they've chosen. It doesn't make it wrong or right - it makes it different to what you think is right, which means it is just a difference in opinion.

But you can childishly thrash about at your keyboard with some stupid response that further proves you didn't read or consider a word I've said.
 
Did Nintendo force you to buy it? No?

Then you weren't tricked. Lame article. "Nintendo wants your money!" -- no duh. Every business wants your money.

THIS JUST IN: REESE'S ARE OVERPRICED. YOU ONLY GET TWO! WITH STARBURSTS YOU GET 12 CANDIES FOR THE SAME PRICE!
 
Maybe it's cause most Wii owners don't have an HDTV, or something, but the fact all these games are in 480p makes many of them purchases in my mind.... that, and I'll never have to worry about the batteries dying like I do in the carts I still own.

Sega Genesis Collection in 480p looks great, I can't wait to see how awesome Super Castlevania IV looks in it, or Gunstar Heroes.
 
OMG, Nintendo is trying to make $$$!!! How dare they!

Yeah and when I go buy my Starbucks each day it's like $4 out of my pocket and I grumble to myself that it's too expensive. But guess what....I don't have to buy them! We as consumers have a choice whether to pay what's charged or not. When a game on the VC costs me roughly the price of two of my mochas, I'm not really going to sit and bitch about it being too expensive. If a game isn't worth paying that kind of money for then I simply won't buy it. It's in no way a necessity in my life, it's a luxury item and like all luxury items my wallet will tell me whether the price is worth the enjoyment of said item.

This reminds me of when the price point of $250 was announced and people complained about that. Jeezus, I get so tired of all the bitching, reminds me of my ex. If you don't like the prices just don't buy. I realize we're all here because we like inexpensive prices for our gaming habits but there just comes a time when the bitching really gets to be too much. I doubt Nintendo really gives a shit that you'd only like to pay $5 for Mario 64 and frankly, I don't either. It's not a necessity so get over it and if you really want something to spend the time to blog about and write letters of complaint about, start with our governement, the oil companies, etc. You know, shit that actually matters.

Sorry, but I'm just really grumpy and hungover from last night.
 
[quote name='ahmedmalik']What happens when you run out of flash drive space?[/QUOTE]

You either buy an SD card or you can just delete them and re-download them at no cost later.
 
[quote name='diaeresis'] The comparison to the Sega Genesis Collection was better, but it's still two different markets: at the VC, you're paying to have all of your games in a central location, not worry about discs, and have them now. That appeals to some people. [/quote]

I think the comparison to the Sega Genesis Collection is the most compelling argument in the article, even though it's not a new idea. Sega and Capcom have both recently provided excellent collections at really reasonable prices, which at per-game rates make the VC look bad by comparison.

Yes, you get some differences with the VC -- no disc, 480p, convenience. You also get a downside -- you can't sell, trade, or give it away, and you can't bring it to a friend's house or let a friend borrow it.

It's a shame the author didn't do more with the Genesis Collection, or with a journalist's enthusiasm go after it more. Why, for example, is there no Sega Genesis Collection on XBOX or Gamecube? Is it just coincedence that Microsoft and Nintendo now have their own virtual game stores?

What does this mean for the future of compilation discs? Are they dead for consoles? Clearly some are okay, hence the Wii's Metal Slug Anthology. And they'll always be popular for portables, I suppose.

Why did I buy the Genesis Collection? There were some games I missed, it was cheap, and I could save/load any of the games at any time. The first and last were the compelling reasons for me, though the second was important, too -- if it were expensive, I wouldn't have bothered.

In any case, there are plenty of issues to explore with the VC and its implementation. Mario 64 costing more than Pinball isn't one of them, though.
 
[quote name='blandstalker']I think the comparison to the Sega Genesis Collection is the most compelling argument in the article, even though it's not a new idea. Sega and Capcom have both recently provided excellent collections at really reasonable prices, which at per-game rates make the VC look bad by comparison.

Yes, you get some differences with the VC -- no disc, 480p, convenience. You also get a downside -- you can't sell, trade, or give it away, and you can't bring it to a friend's house or let a friend borrow it.

It's a shame the author didn't do more with the Genesis Collection, or with a journalist's enthusiasm go after it more. Why, for example, is there no Sega Genesis Collection on XBOX or Gamecube? Is it just coincedence that Microsoft and Nintendo now have their own virtual game stores?

What does this mean for the future of compilation discs? Are they dead for consoles? Clearly some are okay, hence the Wii's Metal Slug Anthology. And they'll always be popular for portables, I suppose.

Why did I buy the Genesis Collection? There were some games I missed, it was cheap, and I could save/load any of the games at any time. The first and last were the compelling reasons for me, though the second was important, too -- if it were expensive, I wouldn't have bothered.

In any case, there are plenty of issues to explore with the VC and its implementation. Mario 64 costing more than Pinball isn't one of them, though.[/QUOTE]

To be fair, someone already pointed out that comps such as Sega Genesis Collection aren't for the same market as the Wii. I doubt you'll ever see something like SGC released as a Wii disc for such a price, because it exposes the VC as overpriced, and would reduce any incentive (save for instant gratification) to buy a VC title.

That said, something like the SGC is available for people who want to play classic games but don't own a Wii. The Capcom comp discs are the same way (though they also feature arcade games that you won't, as of yet, see on the VC). In the end, I don't think compilation discs are going away anytime soon. I hope not, because the SGC just upped the ante for what an awesome compilation should look like and contain. I don't, however, think you'll see any comp discs released for the Wii.
 
[quote name='Strell']Whoa there, cowboy.

If you're going to want to pass yourself off as a journalist, then you damn well better develop some thick skin quick. 'Cuz if you honestly want to do it part time or full time in the public arena, regardless of how much exposure you might get, you're going to get people calling you stupid/worthless/clueless/wrong/whining/etc etc etc, for just about....until the end of time.

Publishing on a website or in a magazine or any other venue for media is for the sole expression of your own ideas. And guess what - not everyone is going to agree. You can sit there and decry everyone as "gosh at least I'm trying to get something published and get my name out there," but that doesn't change the fact that any sort of free exchange of ideas is going to net you a lot of animosity in various degrees.

The two worst things you can do - and you've done both in this thread - is 1) ignore everything that is being said that is contradictory to your points, and 2) get pissed about it. You think Gamespot.com editors don't have a lot of people posting "omfg u r dum!!11" comments all day? 'Cuz I gaurantee you that they do.

So toughen up or stop in your tracks now, 'cuz it's never going to get easier.[/quote]
Thank you for informing me on the pre-requisites of a successful journalist. However, I've been a journalist in the military for the past seven years, and I know full well what it means to be a journalist.

I haven't gotten upset here when anyone has disagreed with my article. I don't mind when someone questions an article or view I have, but I do take offense when someone questions my credibility as a journalist.

And if you think you guys are tough, try having your articles scrutinized by the entire Air Force, especially the leadership who has your entire life in their hands. Trust me, you guys are a cakewalk compared to my day job.
 
[quote name='blandstalker']I think the comparison to the Sega Genesis Collection is the most compelling argument in the article, even though it's not a new idea. Sega and Capcom have both recently provided excellent collections at really reasonable prices, which at per-game rates make the VC look bad by comparison.

Yes, you get some differences with the VC -- no disc, 480p, convenience. You also get a downside -- you can't sell, trade, or give it away, and you can't bring it to a friend's house or let a friend borrow it.

It's a shame the author didn't do more with the Genesis Collection, or with a journalist's enthusiasm go after it more. Why, for example, is there no Sega Genesis Collection on XBOX or Gamecube? Is it just coincedence that Microsoft and Nintendo now have their own virtual game stores?

What does this mean for the future of compilation discs? Are they dead for consoles? Clearly some are okay, hence the Wii's Metal Slug Anthology. And they'll always be popular for portables, I suppose.

Why did I buy the Genesis Collection? There were some games I missed, it was cheap, and I could save/load any of the games at any time. The first and last were the compelling reasons for me, though the second was important, too -- if it were expensive, I wouldn't have bothered.

In any case, there are plenty of issues to explore with the VC and its implementation. Mario 64 costing more than Pinball isn't one of them, though.[/quote]

I actually wrote a somewhat-lengthy post about this subject a month or two ago.

Downloadable classic games = Big ripoff

I didn't delve too much into it in my recent article because I have already covered it before.
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']Thank you for informing me on the prerequisites of a successful journalist. However, I've been a journalist in the military for the past seven years, and I know full well what it means to be a journalist.

I haven't gotten upset here when anyone has disagreed with my article. I don't mind when someone questions an article or view I have, but I do take offense when someone questions my credibility as a journalist.

And if you think you guys are tough, try having your articles scrutinized by the entire Air Force, especially the leadership who has your entire life in their hands. Trust me, you guys are a cakewalk compared to my day job.[/QUOTE]

You're being far too defensive about this. I appreciate your editorial, but there are some very contestable things about it, and some counterarguments to your arguments that are worth noting.

In this thread, though, the majority of posts are unnecesarily and poorly attacking your character, and need to be completely ignored. That's all Strell's saying, though he also suggested (intentionally or not) that us CAGs are no better or worse than gamespot posters with regard to the criticism we offer.

There's room for legitimate criticism of what you bring up in the article - even moreso because it is an editorial piece, which goes beyond the boundaries of deliberate bipartisanship to strongly stand in favor of or stand against a certain issue/matter.

There's also legitimate room for criticism because you did not disclose yourself as the author first and foremost.

You have room to grow in what you do; we *all* do, and we all always will. Even though I almost choked on my coffee reading Strell's resolution of the cognitive dissonance created by people yet again pointing out his Nintendo fanaticism with the fact that he does not see himself as a blindly passionate advocate of Nintendo, he does have some good points.

From now on, if you want to post an op-ed, don't worry about responding to the crap you get disguised as "feedback." Listen to people who make compelling points, both those who agree and those who disagree with you. Ignore the rest of the shitasses, unless you want this delightful joint to stink like gamefaqs.

PM me any further op-eds before posting them, and I can assure you I'll help you refine them into sharper-than-steel fucking ninjitsu-style op-eds.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']You're being far too defensive about this. I appreciate your editorial, but there are some very contestable things about it, and some counterarguments to your arguments that are worth noting.

In this thread, though, the majority of posts are unnecesarily and poorly attacking your character, and need to be completely ignored. That's all Strell's saying, though he also suggested (intentionally or not) that us CAGs are no better or worse than gamespot posters with regard to the criticism we offer.

There's room for legitimate criticism of what you bring up in the article - even moreso because it is an editorial piece, which goes beyond the boundaries of deliberate bipartisanship to strongly stand in favor of or stand against a certain issue/matter.

There's also legitimate room for criticism because you did not disclose yourself as the author first and foremost.

You have room to grow in what you do; we *all* do, and we all always will. Even though I almost choked on my coffee reading Strell's resolution of the cognitive dissonance created by people yet again pointing out his Nintendo fanaticism with the fact that he does not see himself as a blindly passionate advocate of Nintendo, he does have some good points.

From now on, if you want to post an op-ed, don't worry about responding to the crap you get disguised as "feedback." Listen to people who make compelling points, both those who agree and those who disagree with you. Ignore the rest of the shitasses, unless you want this delightful joint to stink like gamefaqs.

PM me any further op-eds before posting them, and I can assure you I'll help you refine them into sharper-than-steel fucking ninjitsu-style op-eds.[/quote]

Point taken. Like I said before, I had no ulterior motive in not telling everyone I wrote the article. I just thought people around here knew it was my site.
 
[quote name='diaeresis']"Disclosure: I wrote it" is polite when you're pimping your own stuff.

There's nothing convincing in arguing "this platform's games shouldn't inherently be more expensive than this platform's games." A Virtual Console is exactly that; you decide if any of these games are worth your time and money now. Debating over whether the line between antiquated games and genuine games, worth playing in their own right, is to be drawn between the N64 and Gamecube, or NES and SNES, or whatever, is to debate retroactively the significance of 1996 or 1991.

Who cares? The VC is saying, "look, I have gaves, you download them from your couch, I have Super Mario for $5, and Mario 64 for $10." If it's not worth it to you then you don't buy. The comparison to the Sega Genesis Collection was better, but it's still two different markets: at the VC, you're paying to have all of your games in a central location, not worry about discs, and have them now. That appeals to some people. I don't see the big deal generally, but offer me a well-emulated version of Keith Courage for $7 or whatever, and if in a nostalgic mood, I may bite.

It's a vending machine for games. Everyone who uses the more traditional counterpart who's older than five knows that they can get a giant bag of Cheetos and 2 liters of Coke from the store for less than what they pay there, but sometimes it's still worth it to you.[/QUOTE]

Wow, A vending Machine for games. That's perfect. Great Post.

Also to everyone who says you can't resell the games, you can resell your Wii with the games on it. Your Wii with 10 VC games is sure to get more money then some Wii with zero games on ebay. It's like tinting your windows in your car, sure you'll never get you upfront cost back but it will help the resale value later.
 
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