I want to be Koei

RollingSkull

RollingSkull

Banned
Damn, I wish I were Koei. I could churn out the same damn game every year and make a mint.

Hell, it wouldn't have to be a technically impressive game at all. Rot3K is at the bottom of the barrel as far as turn-based-strategy goes. About as much depth as a game of checkers! Dynasty Warriors? Great, GREAT fun, but there is no depth at all to justify the higher difficulties.
 
Damn, I wish I were EA. I could churn out the same damn game every year and make a mint.

Sorry, but I HAD to do it.
 
Oh, yeah, EA too. Problem with that is that EA occasionally puts out a 007:EoN or a Godfather to balance things out.
 
Koei did not make Gitarro Man, they merely only published it
 
Well I don't think Koei pumped out SW2:E copies. Had to go to Gamestop/EB and they both had a whopping 2 copies for the 360, and all the local stores were out (this was Friday night, so I doubt many places will receive "late" shipments) but then again I don't think Sam/Dynasty Warriors is as popular in the US then Japan. I know last year a Sam Warriors easily sold over a 1.5 million copies in Japan for the PS2, don't know how well their recent additions have sold.

Either way I bought Sam Warriors 2: Empires for the 360 and I throughly enjoy it, because It's senseless fun. I would never rate it highly as they have done little to not innovation year after year. But that will change shortly (graphics wise) when their next two next gen titles come out, but I doubt the gameplay will change.
 
I think Koei should be ashamed of Gundam Musou. Just look at how terrible the visuals are. It looks almost as bad as the first PS3 Gundam game. Seriously, practically no lighting, no self-shadowing, clipping problems galore, chunky, bland, empty enviroments, yadda yadda. And then there's the fact that it's the same damned move over and over.

Ugh.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']I think Koei should be ashamed of Gundam Musou. Just look at how terrible the visuals are. It looks almost as bad as the first PS3 Gundam game. Seriously, practically no lighting, no self-shadowing, clipping problems galore, chunky, bland, empty enviroments, yadda yadda. And then there's the fact that it's the same damned move over and over.

Ugh.[/quote]

lol, you sold me. i want it, but i don't $500 want it.
 
This thread deserves it:

petcatshowerdrinkic5.jpg
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']That's not true, and you know it.[/quote]

True, I can admit that perhaps my logic was off, but those threads at least have some entertainment value to them. This is just crap taking up board space.
 
Gonna wait for that Rei dude to come in and defend Koei to the death...

I used to be a big fan of Dynasty Warriors but it got ridiculous doing the same maps with the same characters every sequel, with the same shitty graphics engine.

If Koei made a next gen, a TRULY next gen DW or SW game with smart A.I and lots of enemies on screen, I think it would be awesome.
 
Gonna wait for that Rei dude to come in and defend Koei to the death...
Click to expand...
lmao. Sorry to disappoint though. I'm not going to bother getting in a debate with anyone, or spending a large amount of time defending Koei. The fact is I agree that a lot of their games are similar. They have their hardcore fans like me who can tell the difference between DW4 and DW5, and we really don't care what anyone else thinks. If you don't like the games, don't buy them. I'll keep enjoying each one they release.

*goes back to playing SW2 Empires*

Btw, Gundam Musou (which will most likely become Gundam Warriors upon US release) looks fucking amazing. I'm a huge Gundam fan. So we're talking a wet dream come true for me.
 
[quote name='Rei no Otaku']lmao. Sorry to disappoint though. I'm not going to bother getting in a debate with anyone, or spending a large amount of time defending Koei. The fact is I agree that a lot of their games are similar. They have their hardcore fans like me who can tell the difference between DW4 and DW5, and we really don't care what anyone else thinks. If you don't like the games, don't buy them. I'll keep enjoying each one they release.

*goes back to playing SW2 Empires*

Btw, Gundam Musou (which will most likely become Gundam Warriors upon US release) looks fucking amazing. I'm a huge Gundam fan. So we're talking a wet dream come true for me.[/quote]
Just.... wow.

Did you have a Koei club in high school?
 
[quote name='hiccupleftovers']True, I can admit that perhaps my logic was off, but those threads at least have some entertainment value to them. This is just crap taking up board space.[/quote]

INTERNETS.

SERIOUS BUSINESS.
 
Koei makes games for history buffs (particularly those interested in Asian history). The drama and pageantry of the history comes first. Similarly, RPGs are made for those who value an epic story, and that aspect of the game comes first. If you're not playing the game for those reasons, then you won't enjoy them as much as people who do, it's that simple.

Yes, Koei milks its franchises, but they've always delivered a quality product. The criticism that it's "always the same game" is unfounded. The fact that they re-use an engine to make a sequel doesn't discount new maps, new characters, new music, new story/history paths, and additions to the gameplay/combat systems.

I've always thought of RotTK as more of an empire builder than a turn-based strategy game because the vast majority of the game is empire management. Also in recent installments theyve added elements like duels and debates, further distancing it from your standard RTS.

Even though they're the most popular, Dynasty/Samurai Warriors aren't even Koei's best games in my opinion. If you want a great Koei turn-based strategy game, play Dynasty Tactics or Dynasty Tactics 2. They're some of the best turn-based strategy games in years. If you like real time strategy, give Kessen 2 or Kessen 3 a try. It's an underated series and just might surprise you.
 
I have to point out that I'm interested to check out their first (?) racing game, Fatal Inertia. It looks like it could be pretty good, but maybe I'm just desperate for a next-gen WipEout.
 
[quote name='Hereticked']Koei makes games for history buffs (particularly those interested in Asian history). The drama and pageantry of the history comes first. Similarly, RPGs are made for those who value an epic story, and that aspect of the game comes first. If you're not playing the game for those reasons, then you won't enjoy them as much as people who do, it's that simple.

Yes, Koei milks its franchises, but they've always delivered a quality product. The criticism that it's "always the same game" is unfounded. The fact that they re-use an engine to make a sequel doesn't discount new maps, new characters, new music, new story/history paths, and additions to the gameplay/combat systems.

I've always thought of RotTK as more of an empire builder than a turn-based strategy game because the vast majority of the game is empire management. Also in recent installments theyve added elements like duels and debates, further distancing it from your standard RTS.

Even though they're the most popular, Dynasty/Samurai Warriors aren't even Koei's best games in my opinion. If you want a great Koei turn-based strategy game, play Dynasty Tactics or Dynasty Tactics 2. They're some of the best turn-based strategy games in years. If you like real time strategy, give Kessen 2 or Kessen 3 a try. It's an underated series and just might surprise you.[/QUOTE]
:applause:

Great post. Especially for the Kessen reference. Definitely Koei's most underrated series. Kessen 3 was not only a fun game, but it had some of the best cutscenes and direction I've seen in a game. Plus it was a nice spin on the usual tale of Nobunaga Oda.
 
[quote name='Roufuss']Gonna wait for that Rei dude to come in and defend Koei to the death...

I used to be a big fan of Dynasty Warriors but it got ridiculous doing the same maps with the same characters every sequel, with the same shitty graphics engine.

If Koei made a next gen, a TRULY next gen DW or SW game with smart A.I and lots of enemies on screen, I think it would be awesome.[/QUOTE]

If you think that's bad you should know they produce just as much garbage on the PC. If I ever met the president of Koei I'd be tempted to punch him in the face. Sega is getting just as bad doing the same old shit. Frankly I'd prefer they'd use their new franchises more often.
Natsume I'm disgusted how dependent they've been on Harvest Moon when they've proven themselves with Lufia.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']If you think that's bad you should know they produce just as much garbage on the PC. If I ever met the president of Koei I'd be tempted to punch him in the face. Sega is getting just as bad doing the same old shit. Frankly I'd prefer they'd use their new franchises more often.
Natsume I'm disgusted how dependent they've been on Harvest Moon when they've proven themselves with Lufia.[/QUOTE]
Natsume doesnt make any games, they are just a publisher.
 
And what's wrong with Harvest Moon?

The only thing wrong with Harvest Moon is that Magical Melody is a Gamecube game and the 3d graphics look horrible...

More Friends Of Mineral Town: now that's a Harvest Moon game.

Same thing for Lufia...maybe the best story in a 16 bit RPG, and very sweet, but I wish it was on better consoles.
 
[quote name='sarausagi']And what's wrong with Harvest Moon?

The only thing wrong with Harvest Moon is that Magical Melody is a Gamecube game and the 3d graphics look horrible...

More Friends Of Mineral Town: now that's a Harvest Moon game.

Same thing for Lufia...maybe the best story in a 16 bit RPG, and very sweet, but I wish it was on better consoles.[/QUOTE]

Because every damn time it's "Harvest Moon", the same game for the most part. I'd rather see Lufia debuted more often.
 
[quote name='sarausagi']And what's wrong with Harvest Moon?

The only thing wrong with Harvest Moon is that Magical Melody is a Gamecube game and the 3d graphics look horrible...

More Friends Of Mineral Town: now that's a Harvest Moon game.

Same thing for Lufia...maybe the best story in a 16 bit RPG, and very sweet, but I wish it was on better consoles.[/QUOTE]

Better consoles? The SNES was the best console of all time, with the possible exception of the original NES and MAYBE the Playstation 2 if I'm feeling generous.
 
[quote name='ZForce']Better consoles? The SNES was the best console of all time, with the possible exception of the original NES and MAYBE the Playstation 2 if I'm feeling generous.[/QUOTE]

I kind of mean the remakes...the GBC wasn't the best console for a serious RPG.

And the GBA version was always hard to find to me, in fact, I've never seen one used, and as much as I love eBay, I know 99/100 GBA games on there are bootlegs.

As for the SNES versions, I played those emulated, they were good.

I have a magazine ad for a Genesis version advertised, it was supposed to be really good, with the battle engine updated a little, the translation worked on, and some new music!
 
[quote name='Hereticked']Koei makes games for history buffs (particularly those interested in Asian history). The drama and pageantry of the history comes first. Similarly, RPGs are made for those who value an epic story, and that aspect of the game comes first. If you're not playing the game for those reasons, then you won't enjoy them as much as people who do, it's that simple.[/quote]
That's pretty much the only reason to play Rot3K, and I can definitely see the draw there.

Yes, Koei milks its franchises, but they've always delivered a quality product. The criticism that it's "always the same game" is unfounded. The fact that they re-use an engine to make a sequel doesn't discount new maps, new characters, new music, new story/history paths, and additions to the gameplay/combat systems.
Click to expand...
I beg to differ. That sort of thing always seems like a shell game to me. They shake up the presentation slightly (Different Musou paths) to retell the same exact story. ("And now, instead, there's a SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT ploy!") Compare this with the progression of gaming in general from the time DW4 and DW5 was released, and I think you'll find the tinsel they throw on the product to merely disguise the same course they served last time around.

I've always thought of RotTK as more of an empire builder than a turn-based strategy game because the vast majority of the game is empire management. Also in recent installments theyve added elements like duels and debates, further distancing it from your standard RTS.
Click to expand...
TBS, you mean. And I really don't even think the empire building is all that interesting. Everything from officer training to friendships to debate/dueling is abstracted away terribly. Every city in your kingdom merely consists of a certain amount of stats which can be raised by simply telling one of your vassals to "raise XXX stat" to create more food, order, defense, et al. That's pretty much it. I found the war end of the game to be more intriguing. Officer relationships are the same way. Say "Befriend" and your friendship stat goes up, provided these officers have room to work. Debating and dueling are both pretty much games of pure chance.
 
[quote name='RollingSkull']
I beg to differ. That sort of thing always seems like a shell game to me. They shake up the presentation slightly (Different Musou paths) to retell the same exact story. ("And now, instead, there's a SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT ploy!") Compare this with the progression of gaming in general from the time DW4 and DW5 was released, and I think you'll find the tinsel they throw on the product to merely disguise the same course they served last time around.
[/QUOTE]

It's not the "same exact" story though. It's the same GENERAL story, but Romance of the Three Kingdoms is such a huge piece of literature to draw from that in each iteration of Dynasty Warriors they've been able to add on more story elements which weren't covered in the previous games, as well as telling the ones that have been covered from different angles/perspectives. That's fine as far as I'm concerned, although there is a risk of the game becoming too big for its own good. (I know I don't have time to play through as 50 different characters....)

That said, my only real problem with Koei is that they've gone on this expansion mania creating a "xtreme legends" and "empires" for every main installment. Those are features which should be included in the main game and are instead being witheld to make an extra buck later. I refuse to buy any of them.

I love Koei and their games, but I know that if they don't reign themselves in they're going to lose fans and support over time. I think the smart move for Koei would be to combine the RotTK and Dynasty Warriors franchises and create an empire building game where the battles are fought in Dynasty Warriors fashion (with a new and improved engine for the PS3). Imagine having a strategic portion of the game where you manage your empire and custom prepare your army for the next battle(s), then actually enter those battles as an officer and make the difference. You wouldn't even have to play as the same officer the entire time, you'd just pick who you wanted to play as for each individual battle. That would combine the best elements of both games and create an immensely successful new series.

Is that going to happen? Probably not while Dynasty Warriors is still selling like hotcakes, but I'm hoping Koei will wise up before they lose all the ground they've gained in the last six years.
 
I beg to differ. That sort of thing always seems like a shell game to me. They shake up the presentation slightly (Different Musou paths) to retell the same exact story. ("And now, instead, there's a SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT ploy!") Compare this with the progression of gaming in general from the time DW4 and DW5 was released, and I think you'll find the tinsel they throw on the product to merely disguise the same course they served last time around.
Click to expand...
Also to you it may not seem like a huge difference, but to fans of these series it's quite easy to tell. For example, you mentioned DW4 and DW5. Most fans will tell you DW4 was probably the worst in the series and DW5 was a welcome return to what we liked in DW3. And if you factor in the Samurai Warriors series, you can see some pretty big improvements. Everything from the skill system, to special moves, to the improved combo system.
I think the smart move for Koei would be to combine the RotTK and Dynasty Warriors franchises and create an empire building game where the battles are fought in Dynasty Warriors fashion (with a new and improved engine for the PS3). Imagine having a strategic portion of the game where you manage your empire and custom prepare your army for the next battle(s), then actually enter those battles as an officer and make the difference. You wouldn't even have to play as the same officer the entire time, you'd just pick who you wanted to play as for each individual battle. That would combine the best elements of both games and create an immensely successful new series.
Click to expand...
I agree though at the same time I don't. I think the Empires spinoffs do a well enough job of blending the two. All those games need are a couple more strategic elements to seal that deal.

I just want another Kessen game. And this time I want it to be about Cao Cao, and do for him what Kessen 3 did for Nobunaga.
 
Dynasty Warriors 2 was my first PS2 game and I loved it to death. 3 and 3XL were worthy successors of 2. Everything since then has not been one iota better than 3. I can't even count how many there have been either there's so many worthless games.

It's kind of like the Armored Core series. Sure you get some graphical updates and new parts, but nothing has been significantly better than the first game on the PS1. Which is pathetic.

And of course Madden, which we all know peaked years ago.
 
Also to you it may not seem like a huge difference, but to fans of these series it's quite easy to tell. For example, you mentioned DW4 and DW5. Most fans will tell you DW4 was probably the worst in the series and DW5 was a welcome return to what we liked in DW3. And if you factor in the Samurai Warriors series, you can see some pretty big improvements. Everything from the skill system, to special moves, to the improved combo system.
Click to expand...

I liked 4, myself, though if you switched out 4 and 5 and did a blind taste test, the only way I'd be able to tell the difference is being able to turn during my charge moves. (Or if I accidently selected Cao Pi or Xing Cai... or if I saw Zhen Ji's boobs.)

I think merging DW and Rot3K would not work at all, to be honest. At best, that merger would require some strategy to play out in the DW battles, and even in Empires (Just check the anemic strategic choices there. They could have just named every strategy "Hurt troops," "Add troops," or "Decrease troops.") , Koei really hasn't shown themselves to be creative enough to handle that.

Besides, I really think that with a bit of work, Rot3K combat could stand on its own. Bring in ANYTHING from any other war TBS. Unabstract away some realism-type-stuff to give you more options.

Seriously though, the one game that really buried Koei in my eyes was Dynasty Warriors Advance. I mean, here, all it took was a half a cup of creativity and they could have made something good but not great. A medium that cannot handle what they do on the PS2, so they have a chance to shake up the formula. Provide some moderately interesting hack and slash, maybe a boss battle or two (Zhang Jiao shoots fireballs from his staff. Come on, you can't make that a boss?). Hell, make the burning of the ships at whatever the hell that naval battle was something more than "Stand at point X."

Instead, we get a wimp-ass pseudo-clone of the PS2 gameplay that is clearance fodder...
 
[quote name='Jeoff']

It's kind of like the Armored Core series. Sure you get some graphical updates and new parts, but nothing has been significantly better than the first game on the PS1. Which is pathetic.
Im the biggest Armored Core fan I know, and even Ive given up on the series. I used to buy the games they day they came out. Now I wait until they hit the $9.99 & under bin, which they always do. I dont even have the last 2 PS2 games. I normally dont mind 'more of the same' but a few new parts is not gonna coax another $40 out of my wallet anymore. I wil not buy another AC game till they make some major improvement. Like... I dunno... ONLINE?

I understand the dilema the developers are in tho. Once they get a game that has a fanbase, they really dont want to change it that much, cos that usually leads to pissing off existing fans, more than it attracts new fans.

If you havent played a RotTK game yet, you probably never will, so why change it? Players of the series seem to be okay with it, and buy all the sequels. By continually releasing a barely updated game, Koei can keep development costs down, so that each game, while only selling a small number of units, can still make a profit. If they changed the series drastically, fans of the series would probably hate it, and the average game still wouldnt play it.
Click to expand...
 
It's the same with Dynasty Warriors. People like me who are fans of the series are going to buy it regardless. And at this point in time, people who aren't fans of the series aren't going to be magically converted so Koei figures "Why fix what isn't broken"

That being said, I would definitely like to see some tweaks and improvements for DW in the next gen. I'm looking forward to seeing how Bladestorm: Hundred Years War turns out.
 
[quote name='Puffa469'][quote name='Jeoff']

It's kind of like the Armored Core series. Sure you get some graphical updates and new parts, but nothing has been significantly better than the first game on the PS1. Which is pathetic.
Im the biggest Armored Core fan I know, and even Ive given up on the series. I used to buy the games they day they came out. Now I wait until they hit the $9.99 & under bin, which they always do. I dont even have the last 2 PS2 games. I normally dont mind 'more of the same' but a few new parts is not gonna coax another $40 out of my wallet anymore. I wil not buy another AC game till they make some major improvement. Like... I dunno... ONLINE?

I understand the dilema the developers are in tho. Once they get a game that has a fanbase, they really dont want to change it that much, cos that usually leads to pissing off existing fans, more than it attracts new fans.

If you havent played a RotTK game yet, you probably never will, so why change it? Players of the series seem to be okay with it, and buy all the sequels. By continually releasing a barely updated game, Koei can keep development costs down, so that each game, while only selling a small number of units, can still make a profit. If they changed the series drastically, fans of the series would probably hate it, and the average game still wouldnt play it.
Click to expand...

agreed. im much an AC fan as you are i bet. i have all them except for nine breaker and last raven. last raven i do want to pick up soon because of the continued storyline in it. Nine Breaker was a huge waste pile of crap. AC 4 i hope like DW5 is a welcomed return to the series..but it looks bleek thanks to the demo.
 
The only one I was played is Samurai Warriors and I dig it for the most part.

I am really suprised no one said, "I wish I were an Oscar Mayer...."
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']The only one I was played is Samurai Warriors and I dig it for the most part.

I am really suprised no one said, "I wish I were an Oscar Mayer...."[/QUOTE]

ha i will say it and finish the song

"Oh, I wish I were an Oscar Mayer wiener
That is what I truly wish to be
'Cause if I were an Oscar Mayer wiener
Everyone would be in love with me"
 
[quote name='integralsmatic']ha i will say it and finish the song

"Oh, I wish I were an Oscar Mayer wiener
That is what I truly wish to be
'Cause if I were an Oscar Mayer wiener
Everyone would be in love with me"[/quote]

:applause:
 
[quote name='RollingSkull']INTERNETS.

SERIOUS BUSINESS.[/quote]

You are teh fUnNNy hahaha of the internets. God damn is it hard to write like that.
 
[quote name='Hereticked']Koei makes games for history buffs (particularly those interested in Asian history). The drama and pageantry of the history comes first. Similarly, RPGs are made for those who value an epic story, and that aspect of the game comes first. If you're not playing the game for those reasons, then you won't enjoy them as much as people who do, it's that simple.

Yes, Koei milks its franchises, but they've always delivered a quality product. The criticism that it's "always the same game" is unfounded. The fact that they re-use an engine to make a sequel doesn't discount new maps, new characters, new music, new story/history paths, and additions to the gameplay/combat systems.

I've always thought of RotTK as more of an empire builder than a turn-based strategy game because the vast majority of the game is empire management. Also in recent installments theyve added elements like duels and debates, further distancing it from your standard RTS.

Even though they're the most popular, Dynasty/Samurai Warriors aren't even Koei's best games in my opinion. If you want a great Koei turn-based strategy game, play Dynasty Tactics or Dynasty Tactics 2. They're some of the best turn-based strategy games in years. If you like real time strategy, give Kessen 2 or Kessen 3 a try. It's an underated series and just might surprise you.[/quote]

They've always delivered a quality product? Um, have fun with Mystic Heroes.
 
[quote name='Rozz']They've always delivered a quality product? Um, have fun with Mystic Heroes.[/quote]

[cough]WINBACK[/cough]

You are teh fUnNNy hahaha of the internets. God damn is it hard to write like that.
Click to expand...

INTERNETS

SERIOUS BUSINESS
 
...I think me and one of my friends are the only 2 souls who actually liked Winback 1.

That said, sure Koei hasn't drasticly changed DW, but I don't care. The series has it's fanbase, and I'm happy with it. Hell, it wasn't till God Hand that I consided DW to be the best beat em up we've had since 16-bit days. (Haven't played Yakuza)
 
[quote name='Supercake']That said, sure Koei hasn't drasticly changed DW, but I don't care. The series has it's fanbase, and I'm happy with it. Hell, it wasn't till God Hand that I consided DW to be the best beat em up we've had since 16-bit days. (Haven't played Yakuza)[/quote]
The Warriors, Minority Report (CUB/XBX/PS2), on some levels Spider-man 2 and Ultimate Spider-man... Might be a few others...

The Warriors is a better brawler than DW. Minority Report is a blast for the ragdoll physics and old-school pounding action. The Spider-man games have brawler aspects, but focus less on that, so may not be better brawlers than DW but are meatier games.

EDIT: How could I forget Collective's MAGNIFICENT Buffy (XBX) and Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb (PC/PS2/XBX)... and their slightly less magnificent SW:Ep3(PS2/XBX)
 
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