In the long run: Religion, Good or Bad?

HaLLuZiNaTiOnZ

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I've been thinking a lot lately and personally, in the long run religion is a very bad thing. It seems to make people chose stupid options like the Texas state school board book revisions.

It's a just a cancer...

I didn't put a "depends on the person option" because then people will just say that there are good *insert faith* and bad *insert faith*.
 
I always think of this graph when I think of religion, and I get royally pissed.
DarkAges.gif
 
Depends on what you mean by religion.

If you mean the dogmatic institutions that exist to perpetuate/enforce the rules of a belief system and more often than not end up wielding enormous political and social influence, then it's probably been a bad thing, by and large.

But if you mean religion in the sense of a belief system that imposes a sense of order (or lack thereof) on the universe and in so doing provides people with a set of tenets or mores to live their lives by, then I'd say it's an inherent good.

Though, admittedly, they aren't exactly easy things to separate.
 
Its not like any other group has missionaries going out and helping people in war torn and disease filled contries no other organization would. Its all for a good cause, its people that get everything out of hand.
 
[quote name='Magus8472']Depends on what you mean by religion.

If you mean the dogmatic institutions that exist to perpetuate/enforce the rules of a belief system and more often than not end up wielding enormous political and social influence, then it's probably been a bad thing, by and large.

But if you mean religion in the sense of a belief system that imposes a sense of order (or lack thereof) on the universe and in so doing provides people with a set of tenets or mores to live their lives by, then I'd say it's an inherent good.

Though, admittedly, they aren't exactly easy things to separate.[/QUOTE]

Religion and every thing having to do with it.

Why is what I put in bold inherently good? Why is it good to have those people with faith follow another's belief instead of create their own based on their surroundings and logic?
 
I would say being irrational is a net bad. Religion allows irrationality to spread very fast. It is the interstate highway system of irrationality. Most of the cars on the road are harmless/silly/irrelevant, some are very harmful. Unfortunately, and in the US in particular, you can only criticize the particular cars that are causing trouble, when the highway is the problem.
 
[quote name='phantasyx']Its not like any other group has missionaries going out and helping people in war torn and disease filled contries no other organization would. Its all for a good cause, its people that get everything out of hand.[/QUOTE]

I don't get what you're saying here. Are you saying that religious groups are the only ones helping people in struggling countries? That's what I'm guessing since no other "organizations" are mentioned.
 
[quote name='HaLLuZiNaTiOnZ']I don't get what you're saying here. Are you saying that religious groups are the only ones helping people in struggling countries? That's what I'm guessing since no other "organizations" are mentioned.[/QUOTE]
Well your the one that says religion is a cancer, so if we all listened to you and got rid of religion we might as well get rid of the thousands of people who go on mission trips and are stationed in other countries to help educate and improve their poor surroundings because they would have no calling to do so.
 
[quote name='phantasyx']Well your the one that says religion is a cancer, so if we all listened to you and got rid of religion we might as well get rid of the thousands of people who go on mission trips and are stationed in other countries to help educate and improve their poor surroundings because they would have no calling to do so.[/QUOTE]

So you're saying that people with faith that are helping in struggling nations are "evil/bad"(not really so much those 2 as they are selfish)? Since if they had no faith, they'd have no reason to go there? The only reason they're there now is because of a promise of good shit in the after life?

You don't think other kind/caring people would go? That only religion provides them with kindness?
 
I'm not sure overall, mostly due to what Magus was saying. I don't think religion is inherently good or bad, but it's powerful, and when it encourages blind faith and obedience then it can lead to a lot of bad things. Not all religions involve that, but when they do they usually become more successful...
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']I would say being irrational is a net bad. Religion allows irrationality to spread very fast. It is the interstate highway system of irrationality. Most of the cars on the road are harmless/silly/irrelevant, some are very harmful. Unfortunately, and in the US in particular, you can only criticize the particular cars that are causing trouble, when the highway is the problem.[/QUOTE]

Take down the highway. I hear the country side is very nice.
 
[quote name='SpazX']I'm not sure overall, mostly due to what Magus was saying. I don't think religion is inherently good or bad, but it's powerful, and when it encourages blind faith and obedience then it can lead to a lot of bad things. Not all religions involve that, but when they do they usually become more successful...[/QUOTE]

I don't think any religion encourages blind faith, but they all seem to have people that do blindly follow them.
 
[quote name='HaLLuZiNaTiOnZ']Religion and every thing having to do with it.

Why is what I put in bold inherently good? Why is it good to have those people with faith follow another's belief instead of create their own based on their surroundings and logic?[/QUOTE]

Why are you assuming faith is always imposed rather than something people accept for themselves? It often is, and that's one of the chief problems of "organized religion," but I fail to see how having a belief system of some kind is anything but a positive thing. The bad comes when those systems become corrupted -- not necessarily an inevitable result.

And hell, secular humanism is a "faith" in of itself.
 
[quote name='sonderiaom']I always think of this graph when I think of religion, and I get royally pissed.
DarkAges.gif
[/QUOTE]

Damn those Christian Huns!
 
[quote name='Magus8472']Why are you assuming faith is always imposed rather than something people accept for themselves?[/QUOTE]
Because if its almost always taught to you at an age when you do not have the abilities to really resist it. Its quite difficult to sell any of this stuff to a person who has developed some basic critical thinking skills. But if you were sold on it BEFORE you developed those skills, it gets grandfathered in.
 
Bad. It doesn't matter if a higher power exists or not, if everybody were atheists, we would all get along a LOT better. The same is true if we were all Christians or Muslims or Buddhists, but to a lesser extent because of conflicts within the religion.
 
[quote name='sonderiaom']I always think of this graph when I think of religion, and I get royally pissed.
DarkAges.gif
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, we'd have flying cars and holodecks if not for those assholes!
 
[quote name='crunchb3rry']Yeah, we'd have flying cars and holodecks if not for those assholes![/QUOTE]


dude... a holodeck would be so awesome... that way we could go back in time just like they did on 95% of the episodes of ST:TNG
 
[quote name='Access_Denied']Bad. It doesn't matter if a higher power exists or not, if everybody were atheists, we would all get along a LOT better. The same is true if we were all Christians or Muslims or Buddhists, but to a lesser extent because of conflicts within the religion.[/QUOTE]

How so? Religion if for nothing else, is useful for establishing some sort of social order, and the threat of some sort of eternal punishment is more than enough to scare a lot of people into behaving or acting responsibly.

Imagine if tomorrow they announced that there is no god, there is no heaven, there is no hell. Outside of whatever earthly punishments we impose, there is no consequences for your actions. All of a sudden you've eliminated a barrier for crime and misbehavior for a huge segment of society.

Conflicts within and amongst religions are cause by people misinterpreting them, not by the religions themselves.
 
Its a rather bleak view of humanity that they were only conducting themselves morally because of eternal punishment. I guess they'll just have to learn to conduct themselves morally the way atheists do, or we can remind them in the short term that we're pretty handy at earthly punishments.

You cant correctly interpret junk that contradicts itself and reality.
 
[quote name='phantasyx']Well your the one that says religion is a cancer, so if we all listened to you and got rid of religion we might as well get rid of the thousands of people who go on mission trips and are stationed in other countries to help educate and improve their poor surroundings because they would have no calling to do so.[/QUOTE]
You don't know what a humanist is, do you? Let alone a secular humanist. Atheists are just as capable of charitable actions as anyone else. Those missions you describe often involve spreading the group's religion too, so don't think they aren't getting anything out of it.
 
[quote name='spmahn']How so? Religion if for nothing else, is useful for establishing some sort of social order, and the threat of some sort of eternal punishment is more than enough to scare a lot of people into behaving or acting responsibly.

Imagine if tomorrow they announced that there is no god, there is no heaven, there is no hell. Outside of whatever earthly punishments we impose, there is no consequences for your actions. All of a sudden you've eliminated a barrier for crime and misbehavior for a huge segment of society.

Conflicts within and amongst religions are cause by people misinterpreting them, not by the religions themselves.[/QUOTE]
Umm, I don't personally believe in any of that and I'm not out murdering stealing, etc. so I fail to see how the lack of religious punishment would suddenly cause everyone to flip their shit. In fact, if all you have stopping you from going on a crime spree is the threat of eternal damnation, you may want to think about your own sense of morals.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Because if its almost always taught to you at an age when you do not have the abilities to really resist it. Its quite difficult to sell any of this stuff to a person who has developed some basic critical thinking skills. But if you were sold on it BEFORE you developed those skills, it gets grandfathered in.[/QUOTE]

Ignoring for the moment the fact that you seem to have failed to read past that sentence you quoted, and even accepting your premise, what makes you think someone can't choose to reject an ideology that's been "grandfathered in?" Never met a lapsed Catholic?
 
I'd be willing to bet that despite the fact that adults can reject what they're taught when they're young, most don't. I was raised to be baptist, obviously I am not now, but it seems to be a rare thing where people outright reject the religion that is taught to them as children once they're grown. Maybe they aren't as strict about it, maybe they don't actively go to any kind of service, but they'll usually still identify themselves as whatever they grew up as.
 
[quote name='Magus8472']Ignoring for the moment the fact that you seem to have failed to read past that sentence you quoted, and even accepting your premise, what makes you think someone can't choose to reject an ideology that's been "grandfathered in?" Never met a lapsed Catholic?[/QUOTE]
This is something I've never understood about the "brainwashing children" thing. There are plenty of people that I have met that were raised in church, and as an adult rejected the faith they grew up on, sometimes switching to another religion, sometimes rejecting all religion. I'm reading a group have the same discussion over on another site's forums currently.

[quote name='Clak']I'd be willing to bet that despite the fact that adults can reject what they're taught when they're young, most don't. I was raised to be baptist, obviously I am not now, but it seems to be a rare thing where people outright reject the religion that is taught to them as children once they're grown. Maybe they aren't as strict about it, maybe they don't actively go to any kind of service, but they'll usually still identify themselves as whatever they grew up as.[/QUOTE]
The thing is, the world is tough. If I raise my child to have my faith, she's gonna fall on her face and be in a world of trouble when she hits the real world. If I teach her the importance of developing her own, then she is much stronger in what she believes in. Problem occurs(for religious parents, at least) when they decide that faith is not real/irrelevant to them, and turn away from that belief.
Thing about what I believe Christianity is about, each person has to make their own choice. You either have your own faith, or you don't have any at all.
 
[quote name='sonderiaom']I always think of this graph when I think of religion, and I get royally pissed.
DarkAges.gif
[/QUOTE]

I like making up graphs, too.:bouncy:
 
[quote name='spmahn']How so? Religion if for nothing else, is useful for establishing some sort of social order, and the threat of some sort of eternal punishment is more than enough to scare a lot of people into behaving or acting responsibly.

Imagine if tomorrow they announced that there is no god, there is no heaven, there is no hell. Outside of whatever earthly punishments we impose, there is no consequences for your actions. All of a sudden you've eliminated a barrier for crime and misbehavior for a huge segment of society.

Conflicts within and amongst religions are cause by people misinterpreting them, not by the religions themselves.[/QUOTE]

There are millions of atheists now, and you don't see us running to the streets causing havoc because there are no 'long term' repercussions. If anything, people would act BETTER, because they know that this is it, and if you waste it, you're fucked.

Also, you're right, religion isn't the problem, people are. But how do you have religion without people?
 
Even though I do not really believe in it...

I think that Religion is neither good nor bad. It really depends on how a person uses it. I think the practices that it teaches are very good, and am very happy to be raised with it. Along those same lines I am happy my parents weren't strict, because I don't think I learned the teachings by going to church every week. I learned it through it being involved and intertwined with the family rules.

With everything good there needs to be a bad. That is when religion is abused, and that is seen throughout society today. If I might suggest you read the The Year of Living Biblically. In the book he is an agnostic that was raised Jewish. And he pretty much proves that Christianity (and I am sure most of the others) doesn't need to be interpreted with a higher power but as a handbook to raise a family..


And then you have those extremists who just ruin everyone's fun :( .
 
Religion as a blanket whole is a negative in the long run because it prevents us from moving forward and being able to evolve our minds (in a manner of speaking) because it puts restraints on people, it holds them to old ideas and old ways and old thinking. Religion certainly isnt a cancer so to speak, but it definitely has held back our advancement hundreds of years and still continues to this day. For instance we could have had womens lib in the 1700s if we didnt have religion because religion dictated women serve their husband, be submissive to him and such. Infact the bible rarely spoke of women in a good light at all. Without it we could have reached a point of sex based equality along time ago.

Not to mention in my experince the real religious people are the most closed minded and judgemental people Ive ever seen. The most accepting of others, the most good natured and open minded people Ive ever met were all non religious. They are also the most hypocritical people around because when they do something its somehow ok, but they judge others and tell them they are wrong because the bible says so. Look at all the times such as stem cell research we could have saved countless lives with but was witheld because of alot of religious people against it. Or the other dozens of times progress was held up in the name of religion.

Way to many people live by a religion that was created during a time when there was no law, no way of controlling people and during incredibly superstitious times as well. Even just a few hundred years ago we knew for a fact the earth was flat, 500 years ago it was known fact illness was caused by tiny frogs in our stomachs and just a few hundred years ago in this country holy and upright christians citizens would burn their nextdoor neighbor alive or torture them to death because they were a witch. Religion was birthed in a period of time where mankind as a whole new nothing, was afraid of the woods at night, believed in outright ludicrious stuff and had no way of controlling its people in general. So how do you keep people in line that are superstitious and afraid? You tell them "a man youll never meet and no one has ever met will be good to you AFTER you die if you will obey these laws we give you" and the best way to make people remember that stuff is by giving it to them in small bite sized verses from interesting stories in a book. If the bible didnt have stories it never would have caught on simply because people like telling stories, especially back then when its all they had for entertainment.

Religion is more or less a placebo. Its kind of like back in the day if a person was sick and had problems a dr couldnt figure out or cure they would give that person a placebo. After taking that placebo the person would physically and mentally feel so much better, thank the dr and think it was a miracle in a pill because it fixed what was wrong with them when all that placebo had in it was sugar. Yup sugar pills cured millions of peoples physical problems because it mentally made the person believe they were being cured. Religion is the same way, all those people who claim to have felt the touch of god or whatever have only convinced themselves they have because they so badly want to believe it.

Go over in the middle east and people will kill eachother simply for having a different religion. Hell they dont even look different or anything. Christianity in america is dominant and alot of times if your not a christian then "your a bad person going to hell" or god forbid a muslim.
 
[quote name='myl0r']This is something I've never understood about the "brainwashing children" thing. There are plenty of people that I have met that were raised in church, and as an adult rejected the faith they grew up on, sometimes switching to another religion, sometimes rejecting all religion. I'm reading a group have the same discussion over on another site's forums currently.


The thing is, the world is tough. If I raise my child to have my faith, she's gonna fall on her face and be in a world of trouble when she hits the real world. If I teach her the importance of developing her own, then she is much stronger in what she believes in. Problem occurs(for religious parents, at least) when they decide that faith is not real/irrelevant to them, and turn away from that belief.
Thing about what I believe Christianity is about, each person has to make their own choice. You either have your own faith, or you don't have any at all.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately most parents don't seem to do that, they just pass their religion and beliefs down to their kids, then when the kids are grown they just regurgitate their parents beliefs more or less. I don't know what happened to me personally, why I rejected all that. Probably goes back to my curiosity of how things function, I could never accept that something just was, I needed to know how and why.
 
[quote name='gargus']Religion as a blanket whole is a negative in the long run because it prevents us from moving forward and being able to evolve our minds (in a manner of speaking) because it puts restraints on people, it holds them to old ideas and old ways and old thinking. Religion certainly isnt a cancer so to speak, but it definitely has held back our advancement hundreds of years and still continues to this day. For instance we could have had womens lib in the 1700s if we didnt have religion because religion dictated women serve their husband, be submissive to him and such. Infact the bible rarely spoke of women in a good light at all. Without it we could have reached a point of sex based equality along time ago.

Not to mention in my experince the real religious people are the most closed minded and judgemental people Ive ever seen. The most accepting of others, the most good natured and open minded people Ive ever met were all non religious. They are also the most hypocritical people around because when they do something its somehow ok, but they judge others and tell them they are wrong because the bible says so. Look at all the times such as stem cell research we could have saved countless lives with but was witheld because of alot of religious people against it. Or the other dozens of times progress was held up in the name of religion.

Way to many people live by a religion that was created during a time when there was no law, no way of controlling people and during incredibly superstitious times as well. Even just a few hundred years ago we knew for a fact the earth was flat, 500 years ago it was known fact illness was caused by tiny frogs in our stomachs and just a few hundred years ago in this country holy and upright christians citizens would burn their nextdoor neighbor alive or torture them to death because they were a witch. Religion was birthed in a period of time where mankind as a whole new nothing, was afraid of the woods at night, believed in outright ludicrious stuff and had no way of controlling its people in general. So how do you keep people in line that are superstitious and afraid? You tell them "a man youll never meet and no one has ever met will be good to you AFTER you die if you will obey these laws we give you" and the best way to make people remember that stuff is by giving it to them in small bite sized verses from interesting stories in a book. If the bible didnt have stories it never would have caught on simply because people like telling stories, especially back then when its all they had for entertainment.

Religion is more or less a placebo. Its kind of like back in the day if a person was sick and had problems a dr couldnt figure out or cure they would give that person a placebo. After taking that placebo the person would physically and mentally feel so much better, thank the dr and think it was a miracle in a pill because it fixed what was wrong with them when all that placebo had in it was sugar. Yup sugar pills cured millions of peoples physical problems because it mentally made the person believe they were being cured. Religion is the same way, all those people who claim to have felt the touch of god or whatever have only convinced themselves they have because they so badly want to believe it.

Go over in the middle east and people will kill eachother simply for having a different religion. Hell they dont even look different or anything. Christianity in america is dominant and alot of times if your not a christian then "your a bad person going to hell" or god forbid a muslim.[/QUOTE]
I knew it was only a matter of time until you found this thread. And you are still spewing things that I brought up in your last thread about religion, but you just ignored. I won't even waste my time this time.

[quote name='Clak']Unfortunately most parents don't seem to do that, they just pass their religion and beliefs down to their kids, then when the kids are grown they just regurgitate their parents beliefs more or less. I don't know what happened to me personally, why I rejected all that. Probably goes back to my curiosity of how things function, I could never accept that something just was, I needed to know how and why.[/QUOTE]
True, there are people who just blindly follow what their families believed. But there are a good number of people who reject what they were taught and turn to another religion or reject religion altogether. It happens both ways.

However, I believe the Bible addresses the people who simply believe because their families do, those type. In the book of James, it talks about faith that doesn't show fruit is dead faith, it doesn't really exist. He says that simply believing the right things doesn't matter, that even demons know who Jesus is, and they shudder. James says that our faith is to be lived out. I call those people Christian Atheists, people who believe in God, but live their lives as if they don't. I'm reading a book about it right now, called "Christian Atheist" by Craig Groeschel. Pretty good read so far.
 
A good number of people definitely just pay their religion lip service. To me those people are just afraid to admit they basically don't care, they just believe enough to be scared of admitting it. I mean I'd rather they did admit it, but if you're not going to then you might as well actually practice the religion you claim to believe in.
 
[quote name='Access_Denied']Bad. It doesn't matter if a higher power exists or not, if everybody were atheists, we would all get along a LOT better. The same is true if we were all Christians or Muslims or Buddhists, but to a lesser extent because of conflicts within the religion.[/QUOTE]

IMO kind of a dopey point. For one thing I point to the Sino-Soviet split involving communist China and communist Russia.

Also most Buddhists are athiest. While I'm sure you could find a skirmish or street fight, there are not really any religious wars to speak of between Buddhist sects.
 
[quote name='Clak']A good number of people definitely just pay their religion lip service. To me those people are just afraid to admit they basically don't care, they just believe enough to be scared of admitting it. I mean I'd rather they did admit it, but if you're not going to then you might as well actually practice the religion you claim to believe in.[/QUOTE]
Exactly my thoughts. If you aren't going to actually try to live by the tenants you believe in, then you probably don't really believe it to begin with. The problem is, those people give Christianity a bad name and make us look like hypocrites, saying they are Christian, judging others and then going out and doing things that are just as bad.
Well, those people, and the nutbags like WBC and the like. They make us look pretty bad too.

To be honest, I'm more concerned with loving people and taking care of those in need. I can do a pretty bad job at times, but I can also do well in others. I'm trying my best to live out what I believe. But there have been times when I get too concerned about "winning an argument" to make me look good and less about engaging people in a positive way. I can be way more selfish instead of selfless. I'm not perfect, and I won't be, but I try to live out my faith and be a positive to those I come in contact with.
 
[quote name='Access_Denied']There are millions of atheists now, and you don't see us running to the streets causing havoc because there are no 'long term' repercussions. If anything, people would act BETTER, because they know that this is it, and if you waste it, you're fucked.

Also, you're right, religion isn't the problem, people are. But how do you have religion without people?[/QUOTE]

I'm not really sure if there's ever been any studies trying to find a correlation between religious beliefs or affiliation, or even just general belief in god, and crime. If there has been, I'd be interested in seeing it.

As for your second question, well it really doesn't make any sense to me. Care to explain?
 
The world would be a better place if religion were, at the least, a strictly private matter. No thinking person can be taken serious who believes otherwise.
 
The way I've always seen it is that the vast majority of people who affiliate themselves with a religion don't actually follow it anymore -- or at least anywhere near to how it was followed hundreds of years ago (when it caused a lot more problems).

Deeply religious people are often incredibly narrow minded OR really great people who have transformed a religion to suit their life philosophy. The whole idea of evolution, for example, has forced many people to bend their beliefs into stuff that works with modern science -- and other issues like gay marriage has caused some to alter the moral values of their faith -- because it wouldn't be practical or socially acceptable not to.

But the majority, I think, at least Christian Americans -- wear their religion with a disgusting sense of pride. They lead lives that don't remotely resemble that of a Christian, but when you ask them about their faith they get all "of course I believe in the holy spirit and Christ our Lord" etc... It's like a way prove how humble and morally upright you are to others without doing anything. I don't look down at these people, I was raised in the exact same manner. Go to church, arts and crafts, God is great, look up to your parents who don't believe in silly things like Santa but scold you when you use God's name, must go to Heaven, don't forget the true meaning of Christmas cartoons blah blah blah. Become a teenager, forget all that shit while you act like a typically dumb adolescent, but keep telling people you follow a faith because like you, they were also raised to have spiritual "values." The few kids who actually stay truly religious are incredibly socially awkward and are terrified to say the word "crap."

Then college comes and a bunch of kids become atheists to stand out or try to do the same thing "religious" people do by wearing a label that means absolutely nothing with a gross sense of pride. While the "faithful" kids keep telling themselves that God loves them or whatever their pastor and parents told them because that's all they know.

The religious people I like are the ones who have accepted the ridiculousness it is to follow their faith, but still do anyways, having adapted it to a modern and acceptable way of living and keep it private, while benefiting from this life philosophy in whatever way. The atheists I like are the people who aren't atheists because it makes them look sophisticated, but are the people who came to a conclusion to open their minds and accept life the way it is, and look at religion as a richly historic tradition as opposed to an abomination that must be purged.

But on the topic's question, while I think both Atheists and Theists can be incredibly harmful, annoying, and pessimistic in forums and on college campuses -- I think the easy pick for most harmful is the people who actually follow religion in the terrifying way it is actually written out. Ignorance and discrimination is something every human being in capable of, but when mixed with religion the chemistry just becomes way too volatile.

In the long run, religion really is just a testament to how the human mind works and the development of modern civilization. If Islam, Hinduism, Christianity weren't ever founded -- it would of been something else. Maybe one with aeons from FFX, I could dig that.
 
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[quote name='sonderiaom']I always think of this graph when I think of religion, and I get royally pissed.
DarkAges.gif
[/QUOTE]

That completely omits every advancement Muslims (EDIT ,the Chinese, Indians, and nearly every other nation on the planet) were making during the same period. Scientific achievement isn't solely a white undertaking. Not calling you a racist but you need to do some real historical research.
 
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I just think people would have found something else to latch onto and be ideological about. I think the beef with religion is a beef against ideologues and there's plenty to be ideological about. I think religious extremism is a symptom of the problems inherent in social human organization, not the root itself.

But who knows.

I see how some of our posters blather on and on about how important the Constitution is when it's clear they have no idea what it is the document is actually trying to accomplish or how centuries of work understanding and interpreting it has shaped our modern world. I see Bible thumpers or Koran thumpers having no idea what the natural world is about and how we've spent centuries of work trying to understand and interpret it. I can't tell the difference. Their thinking all looks the same to me.
 
[quote name='skiizim']I just wish there was more faith than people being fanatic about things!!![/QUOTE]

Taking things on faith is one of the biggest sucker moves you can make on the face of this planet.

As soon as a religion starts talking about faith I'm looking for the exit doors.
 
[quote name='camoor']Taking things on faith is one of the biggest sucker moves you can make on the face of this planet.

As soon as a religion starts talking about faith I'm looking for the exit doors.[/QUOTE]

I find it difficult to believe that one can get through life without keeping faith in something, even if it is their own reason. Or do you presume to know everything?
 
[quote name='Magus8472']I find it difficult to believe that one can get through life without keeping faith in something, even if it is their own reason. Or do you presume to know everything?[/QUOTE]

What's wrong with saying 'I don't know' ?

We have charlatans of every clothe claiming to know the personal thoughts and feelings of a god that doesn't exist in the first place and making world-rendering decision because people will listen to anyone that shoves "Reverend" in front of their name.
 
[quote name='Magus8472']I find it difficult to believe that one can get through life without keeping faith in something, even if it is their own reason. Or do you presume to know everything?[/QUOTE]

You don't have "faith" that reason is a good tool to use in order to perceive the world and make informed decisions. Science and reason have proven to be the most reliable path to truth ever discovered by mankind. Reason is responsible for pulling us out of the dark ages, curing diseases, and giving us the abundant comforts we have today. Faith (in the absence of evidence) has failed miserably to show that it is a valid means of separating truths from falsehoods or of knowing anything about anything. If you pull up a chart with the global consensus on math, physics, biology, etc, it will be a solid uniform color. Pull up a chart on things taken on "faith", and suddenly the world looks like confetti. If there were any truth behind supernatural/magical revelations, we would be reaching some sort of global consensus. But what do we see instead? Conflict..contradictions..and falsehoods all being preached as if they were true...Artificial barriers being erected between cultures that would otherwise have no difference between them and nothing to fight over. Religion retards human progress and creates a completely pointless us/them mentality..all because there is no objective truth that can be reached on faith.

Cliffs version: We have GOOD REASONS to believe reason is a good thing..and that the concept of faith does not deserve respect. :)
 
First: the more I think of that chart, the worse it is. I mean, aside from blaming the dark ages on Christianity, it's also incredibly Euro-centric and has an utterly useless Y-axis. When there are only two axises, having one of them being meaningless is pretty bad.

Second: the poll itself. I can't answer it. There is no option for "I don't know, and I don't think anyone here is really qualified to answer this question."
 
bread's done
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