iPhone, iPad & iOS Discussion -- White iPhone on Sale 4/28

[quote name='dmaul1114']For the person considering an original iPad, the refurbs in the Apple store got a price drop and come with the full 1 year warranty.

Start at $349 for the 16GB wifi model.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/FB292LL/A?mco=MjEzNTIxMjE[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but I'm kind of 'ugh' on used electronics. I don't know who's had their dirty paws on it before me, and it creeps me out. I'd rather just drop an extra 50 and get one new. =P

I dunno. I'm just kind of wondering, as a complete Apple noob, if I would even miss the upgrades if I just went with an iPad1, and waited to see what the iPad 3 has in store a year or so from now.

I don't know if I would even use the cameras, as I'm not interested in video calling or facetime, and from what I've seen, the iPad1 was pretty damned fast to begin with, so...

=/
 
Yeah, the Camera is really the only notable upgrade. If you don't need that, I'd save the money and go with an iPad one. Camera's a must for me in a tablet as I use Skype a lot and would much rather to it on a tablet than my bulky Thinkpad.

The speed and other upgrades probably won't be that noticeable as the iPad 1 was already very fast with opening apps and doing things anyway.

As for refurb, they get cleaned and sold good as new (no scratches, dirt etc), so I wouldn't let the used thing bother you. Buying a refurb isn't like buying a used one from another person.
 
[quote name='Rouzhokuu']Yeah, but I'm kind of 'ugh' on used electronics. I don't know who's had their dirty paws on it before me, and it creeps me out. I'd rather just drop an extra 50 and get one new. =P

=/[/QUOTE]

Apple puts new outer shells and new batteries in the refurbs and yes they carry the same 1 year warranty as their new products. I've had excellent experiences with apple refurbs myself. Nothing to worry about there.
 
[quote name='bordjon']Apple puts new outer shells and new batteries in the refurbs and yes they carry the same 1 year warranty as their new products. I've had excellent experiences with apple refurbs myself. Nothing to worry about there.[/QUOTE]

Really? New outer shells, huh?

That's pretty tempting, then..
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']Just do what myke said. But that will just transfer games and apps over. It won't transfer over any save data for games that's stored on the phone. If the data is cloud based you should be ok.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I'm aware that I can do that, but I was specifically asking about the save data for said games and apps. Anyone done it? I've read some stuff that it might be through jailbreak, but haven't seen any solid instructions or anything to do so. Hate to have to start over in so many games.
 
[quote name='Rouzhokuu']Yeah, but I'm kind of 'ugh' on used electronics. I don't know who's had their dirty paws on it before me, and it creeps me out. I'd rather just drop an extra 50 and get one new. =P[/QUOTE]

Also, refurbished electronics are often in BETTER shape than their new counterparts. The refurbs get individually inspected and have to pass certain tests whereas the new ones come off the assembly line and are assumed to be OK. I've bought refurbished electronics many times and I've never had a problem...
 
According to Engadget (a site I hate to read, but still do), the performance of the new iPad is pretty amazing. They described it like everything being on "turbo". So it would seem that it really is a lot faster. Of course the iPad 1 was fast too.

Anyway, it's an interesting thing, because while I don't have an iPad, so it's not an upgrade, there's that big price drop on the first version, and there's refurbs available. I don't know, now I really can't decide which one to get....

What I might do is try to hold off from the temptation of ordering a new iPad 2 and wait for iPad 2 refurbs to show up, thus getting a bit of discount. Or wait for Amazon to stock them, as at least then I wouldn't pay tax.

EDIT: no, I want the cameras, so I guess it's an iPad 2 for me. I also like that it's thinner and a bit lighter. I wonder how long before these show up for ordering on amazon?
 
The iPad 1 isn't THAT fast. There's definite delays in opening apps and doing other tasks that really bug me. I'm thinking about getting the new one since it sounds like they've made major improvements in the speed and graphics, and having the cameras is a nice addition. I wonder if I can hold out until they show up at as refurbs? And I still don't know if I would use the 3G enough to make it worthwhile. I'm not tied to Verizon or ATT, but I'd probably go Verizon since most of my friends are on it.
 
Why would what network your friends are using be a factor? It's not like you are making phone calls on this thing. There's no in-network calling. :) Apparently AT&T 3G is faster then Verizon 3G, so if you've got good coverage from AT&T that would seem the way to go. Of course if the coverage isn't so good from AT&T, then Verizon is the way to go.
 
[quote name='JJSP']Gizmodo was saying 256MB, which sounds absolutely pathetic if true.[/QUOTE]

I've read that Apple increased the iPad 2's memory to 512 Mb. All just rumors at this point.

[quote name='crunchewy']Why would what network your friends are using be a factor? It's not like you are making phone calls on this thing. There's no in-network calling. :) Apparently AT&T 3G is faster then Verizon 3G, so if you've got good coverage from AT&T that would seem the way to go. Of course if the coverage isn't so good from AT&T, then Verizon is the way to go.[/QUOTE]

I guess you're right and it doesn't really matter. I kind of doubt I would even use 3G enough to make it worthwhile.
 
Damn it. After reading up on the android and other tablets coming out, I'm leaning toward getting an iPad too. Just nothing else coming out seems as good in form factor and design, and of course all the other App stores suck compared to Apples.

Only sticking point is how they're strong arming Amazon and a few other apps about in-app purchases. But honestly the Kindle app is the only one I care about and in reality I wouldn't use it much as I prefer reading on my Kindle to my girlfriend's iPad anyway.

I've also changed my tune on the new smart cover after watching some videos. That's pretty nifty so I'd probably go with that and just get a cheap netbook sleeve to put it in when sticking it in my briefcase etc.

Orders start next Friday so I'll decide whether to order one by then. Would probably get the 32GB wifi only model. Would like 3G so I could by a month here and there when I travel and stay at hotels that don't have free WiFi, but not worth an extra $130 to have that ability.

I'll probably get an iPhone when the next version comes out on Verizon anyway, and that will take care of my e-mail needs when traveling anyway (which is about all I use the internet for when at conferences etc. anyway).
 
[quote name='CouRageouS']Yeah I'm aware that I can do that, but I was specifically asking about the save data for said games and apps. Anyone done it? I've read some stuff that it might be through jailbreak, but haven't seen any solid instructions or anything to do so. Hate to have to start over in so many games.[/QUOTE]

As I said, you can't transfer over the save data if it's stored on the phone.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']Video and pictures.

I found a couple of apps that cost $3 each by changing my search terms. But I hate to spend the money only to find out I don't like the app, but I may have to. Anyone know of a free one maybe?[/QUOTE]

i use airvideo and i think it's absolutely worth the price if you have a lot of videos on a computer at home. it's convert on the fly and you can also set up a batch of conversions remotely on the so if you want to copy files over later they'll be in the correct format / size.

i was streaming videos over 3g in hawaii on the beach from my computer in new york, and it looked pretty good.

my only gripe with it is that it doesn't stream music
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Only sticking point is how they're strong arming Amazon and a few other apps about in-app purchases.[/QUOTE]

From the users standpoint, though, having the option to buy books within the Kindle App is a win, and I don't really have a problem with Apple making some money off the deal. Right now the Kindle app is free and earns Apple nothing, in fact costs them, so it doesn't shock me that they want to have a portion of the book sales that Amazon is getting as a result of the iPhone/iPod touch/iPad. Maybe 30% is too high - I don't know. Amazon's all grown up. They can negotiate if it's too much. If a user doesn't want Apple to get any of the sale they can still buy them from Amazon directly. Apple isn't blocking that.
 
Well, the problem is that Amazon has made it pretty clear they're not going to give in and will either pull the App for find another work around. The current rumor is they'll make a web based Kindle app that only works through safari etc. and just not have an app in the App store.

Profits on e-books are already not great for Amazon as publishers get I think 70%, so if Apple is taking 30%, then they're getting nothing from it, so there's no way they'll keep an app up with that arrangement. Most users will just use the in-app purchase as it's more convenient, and thus Amazon loses most of their tuc.

I think it's ridiculous that Apple wants a cut of that kind of stuff. It's not like Microsoft gets money from third party programs that work in windows etc. They should be happy making money off of hardware sales and selling their own apps and a percentage of paid apps.

But I'm not sure it's enough to keep me from buying as all other tablets lag behind. Android will always stink as long as it's so fragmented and made more for the customizers/hackers than people who just want simple to use devices with a ton of apps.

Maybe Apple will get more flexible on some things once Steve Jobs keels over and someone else is in charge. But it's still the only solid tablet out or coming out soon IMO, so I'll probably swallow my pride on that and buy one and just do what I can to not make in-app purchases etc.
 
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[quote name='dmaul1114']Well, the problem is that Amazon has made it pretty clear they're not going to give in and will either pull the App for find another work around. The current rumor is they'll make a web based Kindle app that only works through safari etc. and just not have an app in the App store.

Profits on e-books are already not great for Amazon as publishers get I think 70%, so if Apple is taking 30%, then they're getting nothing from it, so there's no way they'll keep an app up with that arrangement. Most users will just use the in-app purchase as it's more convenient, and thus Amazon loses most of their tuc.

I think it's ridiculous that Apple wants a cut of that kind of stuff. It's not like Microsoft gets money from third party programs that work in windows etc. They should be happy making money off of hardware sales and selling their own apps and a percentage of paid apps.

But I'm not sure it's enough to keep me from buying as all other tablets lag behind. Android will always stink as long as it's so fragmented and made more for the customizers/hackers than people who just want simple to use devices with a ton of apps.

Maybe Apple will get more flexible on some things once Steve Jobs keels over and someone else is in charge. But it's still the only solid tablet out or coming out soon IMO, so I'll probably swallow my pride on that and buy one and just do what I can to not make in-app purchases etc.[/QUOTE]

Amazon already dealt with this in the audible app, it basically just links to the web store, and you can buy content there, and it refreshes in the app and you can download. So it seems logical they'll do what you said for kindle as well. for kindle and audible it doesn't really seem like that big of a deal cause you aren't buying books all the time.

apple's attitude definitely kills the possibility of there ever being an amazon mp3 app, which i would love, cause i much prefer amazon's mp3 store to itunes. (way better sales, etc) but i know apple's not gonna bend over for that.

i dunno, i understand apple's postion. it seems lame, but they are spending a lot of resources curating the app store, between bandwidth and workforce checking every single app that goes in that freaking store.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Maybe Apple will get more flexible on some things once Steve Jobs keels over and someone else is in charge. But it's still the only solid tablet out or coming out soon IMO, so I'll probably swallow my pride on that and buy one and just do what I can to not make in-app purchases etc.[/QUOTE]
There are lots of alternatives to "get by" while Android takes its sweet time getting a foothold in the tablet space. It'll happen, though, eventually (6-8 months?) Android device manufacturers will overcome the hardware gap and be able to match the iPad 2 in terms of guts and price, and then Honeycomb will win, simply because it's better than iOS.

IMO the choice right now is one with significance. Apple's stifling innovation in the tablet/mobile market in terms of hardware and software. Their practices with the App Store keep customer and developers down, and they're hoarding tablet components to drive up competitor prices. The hardware might be nice, but an iPad purchase is putting money toward hardware/software becoming even more restrictive and costly.
 
[quote name='dothog']Their practices with the App Store keep customer and developers down[/QUOTE]

Elaborate on this to me, because this doesn't make any sense from my vantage point.
 
[quote name='mang9432']Amazon already dealt with this in the audible app, it basically just links to the web store, and you can buy content there, and it refreshes in the app and you can download. So it seems logical they'll do what you said for kindle as well. for kindle and audible it doesn't really seem like that big of a deal cause you aren't buying books all the time.
[/QUOTE]

No, what Apple is changing is to not allow that anymore. The Kindle app does work like that currently, it jumps you to Safari, you buy the book on Amazon.com and then it will be in your Kindle App.

But Apple has changed the rules and said Apps can no longer do that. Any App content available online like that now MUST also be made purchasable in-app where Apple gets their 30% cut. Otherwise Apple will disallow the app. The webpurchase option can stay, but they also must build in in-app purchasing that has the same or cheaper prices as the online purchase option--and that will kill web purchasing as most users will use the easier in-app option and thus screw the developer out of 30% of their cut.

Which is absurd since they're selling their content--apple shouldn't be entitled to any of that. At most they should get a cut of app sales, but not in-app purchases. They should be happy to have such content driven apps making the device more appealing, especially since the ibooks store sucks in selection and pricing compared to Kindle.

That's what has Amazon and some others thinking of pulling Apps and trying to find other loopholes to get around the new rule.
 
[quote name='dothog']There are lots of alternatives to "get by" while Android takes its sweet time getting a foothold in the tablet space. It'll happen, though, eventually (6-8 months?) .[/QUOTE]

No choice other than waiting.

The only remotely decent other tablet that's came out is the Motorola Zoom. And it's not quite on part hardware/design wise with the iPad1, much less the super thin iPad 2. And it's too expensive at $800 with only one model option.
 
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[quote name='dmaul1114']No choice other than waiting.

The only remotely decent other tablet that's came out is the Motorola Zoom. And it's not quite on part hardware/design wise with the iPad1, much less the super think iPad 2. And it's too expensive at $800 with only one model option.[/QUOTE]
The Xoom's Wifi-only option (which I've looked into) is $600 against the iPad2's 32 GB wifi only option at $599.

The Xoom has double the RAM (iPad 2 probably packing 512 MB, Xoom has 1 GB), 32GB of storage built in that's user upgradable (uSD). Better, bigger screen. Better cameras. Flash. Stereo speakers.

All while having the same dual-core processor that Apple went on and on about, like they're the only game in town shipping tablets with dual-core.

And Xoom has Honeycomb, which is honestly *that* much better than iOS. I've used them both, it's not even a contest, and every review I've read on Honeycomb has said as much. Honeycomb is a big step forward for tablets.

Still, I agree that there needs to be more choices out there, and Motorola's really stretching themselves to get to these price points, whereas Apple can match anyone on pricing if pushed (as if it'll get to that in the near term).
 
Xoom doesn't have Flash yet. Supposed to, but it didn't make the launch. Still coming but no set date for it to be added yet.

Reviews say it's awkward to hold in potrait mode, which is mainly how I use the iPad when doing anything but web or video (prefer that way for books, newspaper apps, comics etc.).

It's a decent bit thicker (12.7 mm vs. 8.8 mm) and heavier (725g vs. 601g) as well which turns me off some.

Good comparison of iPad 2, Xoom, HP Touch Pad and Blackberry Playbook here: http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/02/ipad-2-vs-motorola-xoom-vs-hp-touchpad-vs-blackberry-playbook/

The Honeycomb OS does look nice. But the Android App store is going to keep lagging behind until Google stops putting out so many versions so often. It really needs a unified, one OS version supported at at time framework like the iOS.

But I'll definitely read up some more on the Xoom etc. before taking the iPad to plunge. I wasn't aware the Xoom had a wifi only option.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Elaborate on this to me, because this doesn't make any sense from my vantage point.[/QUOTE]
On the App Store/software development side, Apple is the one who does everything: they decide who gets to make apps, what apps they get to make, and Apple controls the distribution of those apps entirely. It's incredibly unhealthy to innovation. I don't know of a situation on any other OS similar to this. Ever.

None of that goes to mention the patent games they play, they're more aggressive with baseless patent law than anyone in tech right now.

It's the development that really gets to me, though.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']
But the Android App store is going to keep lagging behind until Google stops putting out so many versions so often. It really needs a unified, one OS version supported at at time framework like the iOS.
[/QUOTE]
I don't believe this.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's the refresh in the Android OS and the growth in the Android Market, that constant movement and improvement, that will contribute Apple's continued loss of market share. iOS and the App Store, and Apple in general, are given to stagnation in the sense that the hardware is slow to refresh (every year, though 6 mo for the iPad) and the OS looks basically the same that it did on the iPhone 1. Not so with Android -- Honeycomb doesn't resemble Donut or Eclair. It is distinctly a tablet OS. Hard to say that for iOS on the iPad.

Google may leave developers in the lurch with their quirks (as they did to Moto with Honeycomb), but the Android development community is relatively unimpeded by Google. You can't say that for Apple and the community there. Apple overseeing anything gives them unrivaled control in the early going, but once real growth comes in, the game will change.

Also, my experience with Android has never been such that I wasn't able to install an apk because my version of Android was out-of-date. Maybe that happens with people who have G1s or other older 1.5-era devices, but there's so much flexibility with the devices because Android is open. I saw somewhere that somebody got Honeycomb ported and working on a G1. Sure, it's something cute to do, but can you imagine iPhone 1 running iOS 4.0?
 
But it sucks for devs when there are all these different versions of Android with different UIs on different devices etc.

I've read many interviews with developers saying they stick with iOS as Android is too fragmented and hard to develop for as there are so many versions out there simultaneiously.

The non-interference from Google is great, I wish Apple would have a similarly open app store. But having so many OS versions out at the same time, letting each manufacturer come up with their own UI etc. was a big mistake IMO and will keep it from getting nearly as many apps as the iOS has as many devs decide to stick with the iOS and it's one version at a time approach (and better backward compatibility across updates than you get with Android).

I like the openess, hate Apple's practices etc. But at the end of the day app availability and device design are the two most important things to me and no one's shown they have any chance of matching Apple in those areas on the tablet front. And maybe they never will, there's still no other MP3 players out there anywhere near the quality of the iPod Nano 4th and 5th gen models in terms of design IMO.

So I'll give it more thought, but I'm leaning toward going iPad 2. Can always sell it in a year or two if some Android or mobile windows tablet comes out that I like a lot better. I've been waiting almost a year since the iPad 1 launch when I've wanted a tablet device for ages, so I'm inclined to just go iPad 2 and have a very solid and well designed device with a ton of apps despite having some reservations about Apple's business practices.
 
I love my iPad but do not see the need to get the iPad 2 (although if you don't have one at all then the iPad 2 is a no-brainer). I've got a 32GB wi-fi only model and I couldn't be happier with it (especially after the jailbreak). I'll probably get another iPad next year assuming the iPad 3 comes out and has an improved screen and more internal memory but I think I'll be OK until then. I don't even use it for games (I've only played a few) but for media consumption it is a fantastic device (movies, music, internet, pictures, etc.).
 
This whole discussion is so 1990's "PC vs Mac" that my head is spinning.

Apple using closed systems is nothing new at all. It's been the way they're done business since their inception in the late 1970's.

I'm still not sure I see your point, dothog. From my perspective, as an end user, the idea that Apple's system stifles innovation and reduces development opportunities is one that stands in stark contrast to the glut of product on the App Store.
 
Well, I guess the argument is we'd have even more variety in apps if they didn't screen out things. And that's true. Why it has so many apps is it has a huge user base and unified OS and app store which Android is lacking.

I don't mind the app store screenings too much, but things like the in-app purchase thing going on now is concerning as that will likely drive some apps away or make them severely gimped compared to currently. Again, I just don't see why Apple is entitled to a cut (much less 30%) for content sold through apps.

Stuff like that will just drive app makers away and eventually hurt them by making some major apps like Kindle potentially exclusive on the competition. When they could be coddling app makers and trying to get exclusives etc. to make the iPad even more attractive.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']From my perspective, as an end user, the idea that Apple's system stifles innovation and reduces development opportunities is one that stands in stark contrast to the glut of product on the App Store.[/QUOTE]

While I see your point, the difference between a jailbroken iPad and a non-jailbroken one is pretty big. I finally jailbroke mine after being on the fence about it for a while and now I feel like the device is truly mine to do with what I want.

Everything is totally customizable (look and functionality) and there are a lot of jailbroken apps that I can't understand why Apple won't allow them on the app store. Maybe "app" is the wrong word - more like extension - think Firefox - because you don't see the app icon on the springboard (it runs in the background as part of the OS).

For example, the "folders" are limited to 12 apps per folder. Why? There is no good reason for this. I installed something called folderenhancer and now I can store an unlimited amount of apps in one folder - I can even create folders within folders! Apple's restrictions are pretty stifling I think (even though they have the best app store by far, IMO).
 
then it becomes a question of who needs who more. does apple need amazon to sell electronics, or does amazon need apple to sell e-books?

IMO, the latter is much easier to see being the case. I've bought a handful of kindle books to use on my mac and iphone (and now droid, ;)). I don't own a kindle - my wife does, and i'm kinda sorta a little jealous. But if I pick up an iPad, I won't be.
 
Amazon has sold around 11 million Kindles per estimates out there (unfortunately they don't release sales numbers--and that may be a "by end of 2011" estimate as well, I'm not sure off hand), and have apps on Android, blackberry, windows, MAC etc.

They don't need Apple. It's a nice additional outlet given how many iPads and iPhones and iTouches are out there, but it's not like all who own those read books so it's not the end of the world. They've made it clear they'll pull the App when the rule changes in June if they can't find a work around (like the Web based idea their thinking about).


Even if I get an iPad, I'll definitely keep my Kindle as I don't care for reading straight text on an LCD screen for more than 30-60 minutes. I've tried on my girlfriend's iPad and my eyes get tired and sore, where as I can read for hours on end on the Kindle. Also nice to be able to read in the sun on my balcony or in the park down the street etc. which I can't do on the iPad due to glare. :D

iPad would be just for PDFs, comics, newspaper apps, web surfing on the couch (I hate my laptop), e-mail when traveling so I don't have to lug the laptop just for that, etc.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']This whole discussion is so 1990's "PC vs Mac" that my head is spinning.

Apple using closed systems is nothing new at all. It's been the way they're done business since their inception in the late 1970's.

I'm still not sure I see your point, dothog. From my perspective, as an end user, the idea that Apple's system stifles innovation and reduces development opportunities is one that stands in stark contrast to the glut of product on the App Store.[/QUOTE]
But they are the exclusive distributor! And not only that, they dictate how the program is built (in some fashion), and they can hold apps in limbo for months at a time on the basis of indeterminate and inconsistent standards. They control what gets on your device and when it gets there. Entirely.

If somebody wants to build and package a program for OSX, Windows, whatever, you do it, you sell it, it's done. On iPad and iPhone, it's not enough that the customer wants it and the developer wants to make it for the customer. Apple forces itself between the two unnaturally. This prevents new software from reaching the consumer. Apple has created this disconnect intentionally, it's a good business model right now. It won't be for long.

This difference is everything. It's nothing like the 90s.
 
Even with that disconnect the app store is vastly superior in terms of content so it doesn't matter to me
There are plenty of apps to enjoy
 
Yeah, and that's why I'll probably swallow my pride and get one. The iPad has 65,000 iPad apps (not counting iPhone apps) while I just read that none of the other tablets (Android, WebOS etc.) have more than 100 tablet apps yet.

The iPad has all the apps I need and most I've read of getting rejected are things I had no interest in. Again my only concern is this crap over in-app purchasing may be losing some major apps like Kindle. But again I'm keeping my Kindle as I don't like reading novels on the iPad anyway so it again is largely a moot point for me.

I'm selfish, so at the end of the day I'll take my own convenience over standing up for developers.
 
[quote name='dothog']By Apple. Not the developers.

It's not hard to find if you follow tech blogs. Here's a glaring example from around a year ago.[/QUOTE]

I didn't say it right. What I meant was that it see little signs that App developers' innovation has been stifled. I'm talking about what I see on the app store. On the contrary, it appears to me that app developers' creativity and innovation is thriving. I'm not sure what app store you are looking at, but it appears to be an entirely different one from what I'm looking at.
 
Yeah, the only downside is you can't get any porn apps, or apps with foul language etc. that may not get through the app store filters. And I worry they may stifle stuff that challenges there own apps--though I don't think that's happened yet. Again, only crap with the Kindle and other apps getting strong armed about in-app purchases really bothers me. As I said, there haven't been any apps rejected that I've heard about that were anything I give a crap about.


Just saw an ad for the Zoom that reminded me of another thing I don't like about it and most of the other tablets on the market. I hate the 16x9 wide screen ratios for a tablet. It sucks for portrait mode which I'd use a tablet in a to for reading PDFs, word docs etc. The iPad ratio is ideal for that--would be even better if the screen was an inch or so bigger though.
 
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When the Apple refurb page says that all iPad's receive a new outer shell..

Does that mean a new screen as well, or just the aluminum backing?
 
[quote name='Rouzhokuu']When the Apple refurb page says that all iPad's receive a new outer shell..

Does that mean a new screen as well, or just the aluminum backing?[/QUOTE]

Should be new glass over the screen I'd think. The guts of the screen would only get replaced if they were screwed up.

Trust me, it will be 100% identical to a new unit outside. You have nothing to worry about.
 
[quote name='wwe101']just bought iphone. what are some good games and apps?!?! i tried plants vs zombies and it was meh[/QUOTE]

Some of my favorite games(no order):

Infinity Blade
Angry Birds
Queen's Crown
Fragger
Cut the Rope
Spider-Man
Captain Puzzle
Words With Friends
Phoenix Wright
Peggle
iSlash
Slingo

In regards to apps, what are you trying to accomplish? These below are good but I'm not sure of what you are looking for or if they even apply to you.

AVSForum
Chase Mobile
AMEX
Office2(edit docs, spreadsheets, txt)
Twitter/Facebook
Verizon FIOS DVR Manager
Gamevault - game collection manager
Netflix
Pandora
Audiogalaxy - Audio streaming
Xenon - Synthesizer
Dropbox
Appshopper
HeyTell - Walkie Talkie
Paypal
eBay
Mobile Mouse - Use your phone as a mouse/keyboard for your PC
Mapquest
Amazon
Discover
 
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[quote name='dmaul1114']Trust me, it will be 100% identical to a new unit outside. You have nothing to worry about.[/QUOTE]

Yep. Our first iPhones were 3G refurbs, and aside from coming in an AT&T generic box (imagine the boxes Gamestop uses for used consoles), it was brand new in appearance and performance.

The only things that should prevent you from buying a refurb is:
1) wanting/needing to have the brand new thing now (i.e., if getting it will still make you jealous of ipad 2 owners)
2) compulsions - i.e., if the thought that many, many dirty,greasy, little fat kid fingers have used your device before makes your stomach squirm, then maybe you want to go new. since they replace the case, that's not really an issue.
3) warranty - typically one year, here it's more like 90 days I think.

For $50 difference, you can get a brand new 16GB ipad. Target has them at $399 for 16GB and $499 for 32GB brand new ($599 for 64GB but my store was OOS). If peace of mind is that valuable to you, then $50 isn't that bad.
 
[quote name='jacknicklson']Gamevault - Scan games to add to collection[/QUOTE]

This is not correct, and it's rather unfortunate. Currently, at least, Game Vault does not let you scan your games, rather you have to manually type in the name, pick the version from the search results, then pick the region version. I can't believe it doesn't just let us scan the barcodes. Oh well. Maybe they'll add it in an update. I'm not using it until they do that.

My iPhone 4 is actually a replacement and is a refurb and it was absolutely like brand new. I'd buy refurb over new whenever possible. Here I'm talking about direct from Apple refurbs, not ones refurbished by a 3rd party.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
3) warranty - typically one year, here it's more like 90 days I think.
[/QUOTE]

I think I read that for the iPad the refurb has the same 1 year warranty as a new unit.

That said, I agree it's only $50 difference now, so I'd probably buy a new one if I wanted one.

Leaning strongly toward ordering a 32GB WiFi iPad 2 on Friday though. :D
 
[quote name='mykevermin']The only things that should prevent you from buying a refurb is:
...
3) warranty - typically one year, here it's more like 90 days I think.
[/QUOTE]

This is not correct. Apple refurbs receive the full warranty, exactly the same warranty as new. Not only that, but in effect an Apple refurb has been fully tested twice, unlike a brand new one. I've had better luck with Apple refurbs then new, in fact.
 
Well, sheeeeit. I'm wrong on the warranty.

So now you're paying $50 difference to make sure the only children's fingers that touched your iPad were those of the Chinese laborers who manufacture them.
 
:lol:

Apple refurbs are great, like others have said.

Besides, if something is going to go wrong, it will most likely happen within the first year.
 
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