Is Nintendo Marketing To The Hardcore Gamer Enough?

pumbaa

pumbaa

CAGiversary!
I’ve been thinking a lot about this for the past couple days and I’m wonder what you guys have to say about the topic.

Before Metroid Prime 3 was released, IGN posted an editorial that questioned why Nintendo wasn’t hyping up the game. Stephen Totilo also had a few interesting things to say about Nintendo’s marketing strategy to the core. Now, we’re coming up on the new year with a whole bunch of new games that are of equal or greater “value” than MP3. Was this original argument viable? Is it still relevant?

This is especially interesting to think about when you compare Nintendo “competitively” against Sony and Microsoft. Sony and Microsoft have a laser focus on that “hardcore gamer,” but Nintendo’s focus has to be a bit broad.

Do you think Nintendo doing enough to market these games to the “hardcore gamer”?

What do you think are/have been the effects of Nintendo’s marketing to gamers?

I think its an interesting question to look at, especially from the perspective of gamers who haven’t “bought into” the Wii phenom… and who are used to the very different type of marketing from Sony/Microsoft. This should get a nice Sunday conversation going. Interested in what you guys think.
 
Nintendo doesn't care about "hardcore" gamers anymore - it's such a minority as compared to the overall market. I'd be willing to bet that SMG and SSMB are the last games even close to hardcore that Nintendo releases on the Wii.
 
[quote name='suko_32']Do they really need to market to the hardcore gamer?

Also, haven't seen you on CAG in a while.[/QUOTE]

I've been around. Not actively posting... but around.
 
[quote name='javeryh']Nintendo doesn't care about "hardcore" gamers anymore - it's such a minority as compared to the overall market. I'd be willing to bet that SMG and SSMB are the last games even close to hardcore that Nintendo releases on the Wii.[/QUOTE]

I'm amazed javery is the one saying something this stupid.

I guess someone had to do it in this thread, and maybe he drew the short straw.
 
[quote name='Strell']I'm amazed javery is the one saying something this stupid.

I guess someone had to do it in this thread, and maybe he drew the short straw.[/quote]

yeah, well... I'm kind of disappointed in general with my Wii. It started out with a lot of potential but after 3 or 4 masterstrokes it just lost its juice. I'm hoping that after a reasonable period of time I can start playing with it again but who knows when something else will come along that I want to get involved with.
 
Enough for their continued success? Yes.
Enough to build up a more core base for the Wii all by themselves? Probably not. Check back after Smash Bros, maybe that game does it for them without any explicity marketing.
 
"Is Nintendo Marketing To The Hardcore Gamer Enough?"

ummmm aren't they past the hardcore gamer phase? I mean com'on mang, the wii is still hard as fruck to find. Does that not answer your question? This kid I work with (everyone is a kid) said he hadn't played the wii yet, but oh so wanted one. it's word of mouth or just wanting something he can't currently have. Your call, but I don't think nintendo needs to market anything right now, they just need to keep pumpin out the games
 
[quote name='javeryh']Nintendo doesn't care about "hardcore" gamers anymore - it's such a minority as compared to the overall market. I'd be willing to bet that SMG and SSMB are the last games even close to hardcore that Nintendo releases on the Wii.[/QUOTE]
This.
 
Everyone seems to be getting tripped up on the "hardcore" samantics. Hardcore is just a way of saying "the gaming subculture," "us," "the people who will always been online anticipating multiple titles that are coming out and actively discussing aspects of gaming." There's a difference between that type of "gamer" and other people who play games.
 
[quote name='pumbaa']Everyone seems to be getting tripped up on the "hardcore" samantics. Hardcore is just a way of saying "the gaming subculture," "us," "the people who will always been online anticipating multiple titles that are coming out and actively discussing aspects of gaming." There's a difference between that type of "gamer" and other people who play games.[/QUOTE]

Don't you think most of us were in a line one way or another on november 17th 06 to get a Wii? So wouldn't that take away the hardcore aspect, and leave the reset of the masses who are clamoring for one still?
 
[quote name='Strell']I'm amazed javery is the one saying something this stupid.

I guess someone had to do it in this thread, and maybe he drew the short straw.[/QUOTE]

I don't see what's stupid about it. They're making more money with 'casuals' as they are with 'hardcores'. From a business standpoint, they have little reason to market to the hardcore, as it is such a small group comparatively.

I'm sure they will continue to have games that appeal to the hardcore crowd after the two he mentioned, but they're better off concentrating on making more Wii Fits, Wii Plays, and Wii Sports.
 
[quote name='Strell']I'm amazed javery is the one saying something this stupid.

I guess someone had to do it in this thread, and maybe he drew the short straw.[/QUOTE]
So Mother 3 was announced for localization?

I didn't think so.

kthxbai
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']So Mother 3 was announced for localization?

I didn't think so.

kthxbai[/quote]That, um... that doesn't really make any sense...
 
[quote name='dpatel']I don't see what's stupid about it. They're making more money with 'casuals' as they are with 'hardcores'. From a business standpoint, they have little reason to market to the hardcore, as it is such a small group comparatively.

I'm sure they will continue to have games that appeal to the hardcore crowd after the two he mentioned, but they're better off concentrating on making more Wii Fits, Wii Plays, and Wii Sports.[/QUOTE]
It depends on your definition of "hardcore." If you mean those who only exclusively play the limited American release RPGs, then no, Nintendo is doing nothing for these types, and quite frankly, never has. If by "hardcore" you mean those who use their consoles for more than Madden, Wii Sports, and assorted monster truck titles, then yes, Nintendo will continue to market to them. While they may not be the dominant market for the Wii, I would wager they're still a significant chunk of it. Weren't there rumors a bit back of another Zelda game already in the works for Wii?
 
[quote name='pumbaa']Everyone seems to be getting tripped up on the "hardcore" samantics. Hardcore is just a way of saying "the gaming subculture," "us," "the people who will always been online anticipating multiple titles that are coming out and actively discussing aspects of gaming." There's a difference between that type of "gamer" and other people who play games.[/quote]

If you head over to the DS or Wii forums, you'll see that everyone there fits your definition.

We/They are all online, anticipating multiple titles and discussing aspects of gaming.

By that definition, just glancing at the forums makes it look like Nintendo is doing just fine "marketing to the hardcore gamer enough," because here we all are.
 
I got burned with buying the GC for a single game last gen (Eternal Darkness).

There are two games I want to play for the Wii:

Zack & Wiki and No More Heroes.

I can't justify buying a console for one or two games anymore, and I refuse to get burned again by Nintendo.
 
Nintendo: "Take your fire emblem, zelda, mario galaxy, metroid, and smash bros, enjoy them for the next 5 years, and shut up while we prepare to hype the shit out of Wii Fit."

They put out all the major sequels to major franchises on the Wii...but what's next? I'm not a humongous Smash Bros fan, so after playing No More Heroes, I'm not sure what else to get excited about.

I guess I'm more "needy" though, because my PC and 360 take care of most of my gaming needs (and will into the future.)
 
I guess someone had to do it in this thread, and maybe he drew the short straw.

Well, no, I was just busy at the time.

Playing into zealots' expectations since "Slim Pickins"!
 
[quote name='The Crotch']That, um... that doesn't really make any sense...[/QUOTE]
Strell said javeryh was an idiot for saying that Nintendo doesn't cater to hardcore gamers anymore. But have they ever announced Mother 3 or any other games with a hardcore-only audience in the past few years for the US? No. At least in America, they're doing it wrong.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']Strell said javeryh was an idiot for saying that Nintendo doesn't cater to hardcore gamers anymore. But have they ever announced Mother 3 or any other games with a hardcore-only audience in the past few years? No.[/QUOTE]


well...even "hardcore" people would shy away from a game like Fire Emblem or Advance Wars.
 
Yeah, they really didn't market Metroid Prime 3 enough, outside of the Wii Preview channel.

I think the main problem is they just don't have enough traditional games for hardcore gamers in mainstream genres. But they're kicking ass sales wise, so obviously they know what they're doing.

For me it just means that the Wii's mainly my Nintendo franchise playing machine, just like the Gamecube was. But I'm fine with that as I love their games enough to own the console just for them and the occasional third party game--speaking of which I really which I had money to buy, and time to play, No More Heroes right now! :( Oh well, will get to it eventually.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']Strell said javeryh was an idiot for saying that Nintendo doesn't cater to hardcore gamers anymore. But have they ever announced Mother 3 or any other games with a hardcore-only audience in the past few years for the US? No. At least in America, they're doing it wrong.[/quote]It's just that... using Mother as your reason for saying that Nintendo doesn't care about more traditional gamers? Because they haven't translated a game that would sell 10 copies, they're gonna stop with the Zelda and the Metroid? There's no denying that they're making a lot more money going in this new direction, but... Mother? What the hell?
 
When does a company *ever* have to market to the hardcore gamers?

The hardcore gamers are the ones that are on forums, they know when games are released, and they don't need a commercial showing them what they are already going to buy.

So yes, they are marketing to the hardcore gamer enough...even if it's almost none.
 
[quote name='Rig']When does a company *ever* have to market to the hardcore gamers?

The hardcore gamers are the ones that are on forums, they know when games are released, and they don't need a commercial showing them what they are already going to buy.

So yes, they are marketing to the hardcore gamer enough...even if it's almost none.[/QUOTE]


Yeah, the term hardcore is the wrong one to use here. The more relevant question is whether they're marketing enough (and making enough games for) mainstream gamers. i.e. those that made the Playstation a hit buying up games like Gran Turismo, Madden, GTA, Final Fantasy, Ratchet and Clank, or the gamers buying 8 million + copies of Halo 3 and so forth.
 
I suppose I'm asking as a foil to Microsoft and Sony.

The Gamerscore and Playstation blogs are (like it or not) "marketing." The Halo 3 ARGs? Marketing. BioShock's Cult of Rapture website? Marketing.

I know I'm asking about a wide range of people here, some of which have bought the Wii itself some who havent. I'm just thinking out loud in terms of, does Nintendo do enough of the BioShock/Mass Effect type stuff that's a bit more organic and is a lot more palatable to the hardcore.

Should they even be doing that type of stuff? I don't know. Discuss.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yeah, the term hardcore is the wrong one to use here. The more relevant question is whether they're marketing enough (and making enough games for) mainstream gamers. i.e. those that made the Playstation a hit buying up games like Gran Turismo, Madden, GTA, Final Fantasy, Ratchet and Clank, or the gamers buying 8 million + copies of Halo 3 and so forth.[/quote]

That seems like the better question. And in that case, I would say that more advertising probably wouldn't hurt. Except, they are making a ton of money already. Would additional costs in marketing generate enough sales to eat the cost of that marketing? I guess Nintendo hasn't needed to find out.
 
I'd definitely like to see more marketing. Look at any time you've seen the Wii on a show - the Colbert Report, Martha Stewart, local news, whatever - what do they show? Wii Sports. That's what gets in people's minds when they think about the machine. And it's things like that that get the most attention on store shelves - and since those things sell the best, that's what Nintendo decides it should focus on, both in terms of production and advertising. And then a Vogon constructor fleet decides that our planet is in the way of a planned hyperspace bypass and...
 
[quote name='pumbaa']
The Gamerscore and Playstation blogs are (like it or not) "marketing." The Halo 3 ARGs? Marketing. BioShock's Cult of Rapture website? Marketing.[/quote]


Isn't the Smash Bros Dojo Website where Nintendo has been doling out info nearly daily for months that type of marketing?


[quote name='pumbaa']
I know I'm asking about a wide range of people here, some of which have bought the Wii itself some who havent. I'm just thinking out loud in terms of, does Nintendo do enough of the BioShock/Mass Effect type stuff that's a bit more organic and is a lot more palatable to the hardcore.

Should they even be doing that type of stuff? I don't know. Discuss.[/QUOTE]

They definitely don't do enough of that stuff for my liking. But again, I don't care as that's why I bought a 360.

Should they do it? I don't know. They can't keep the console on shelves well over a year past launch, so I'd say that from a business standpoint they are doing things right.

It will make the console not worth owning for people that don't like Nintendo's first party games or casual games for the most part, and lead to it gathering dust for those that buy it just for Nintendo games.

But again, that's why there are multiple consoles out there. There's one best suited to be a primary console for everyone, and maybe another that's a good secondary system.

For me the Wii60 is great. Spend most of my time on the 360, but can take a break from FPS, western RPGs etc. and play some Nintendo First party games when they come out. Variety is the spice of life.
 
I hear a lot of what the Wii-bashers are saying in this thread all the time, but it's still unbelievable to me that people don't recognize the breadth and depth of "hardcore" gaming available on the Wii. There's also this misconception that 3rd party support just isn't there. But just look at what Bold Games/Destineer has done recently...

You want racing and extreme racing? Kawasaki Jet Ski, Kawasaki Quad Bikes, Big Rig Racer 2, Monster Trux Offroad, and London Taxi Rush Hour. Oh, and I almost forgot the Gran Turismo/Forza killer known as Classic British Motor Racing.

And how about something for the sports fan? Their Kidz Sports line brings it *hard*! They've got basketball, ice hockey, and international soccer.

For those into the fantasy RPG thing but actually prefer playing Super Monkey Ball to Final Fantasy, they've got Myth Makers Orbs of Doom.

Best part is there ain't no $60 being dropped on these titles, nuh-uh. They can each be had for $19.99.

So while everyone's playing the same-ol'-same-ol' on the 360 and PS3, Wii owners can kick it with motion-controlled mayhem for under 20-bills, which means there's more money for the hard liquor it'll take to forget that you can't get must-play titles on the Wii like Rock Band, BioShock, the Orange Box, Call of Duty 4, Rainbow Six Vegas, Assassin's Creed, Ratchet & Clank, Halo, Gears of War, or Grand Theft Auto.
 
[quote name='Scobie']I hear a lot of what the Wii-bashers are saying in this thread all the time, but it's still unbelievable to me that people don't recognize the breadth and depth of "hardcore" gaming available on the Wii. There's also this misconception that 3rd party support just isn't there. But just look at what Bold Games/Destineer has done recently...

You want racing and extreme racing? Kawasaki Jet Ski, Kawasaki Quad Bikes, Big Rig Racer 2, Monster Trux Offroad, and London Taxi Rush Hour. Oh, and I almost forgot the Gran Turismo/Forza killer known as Classic British Motor Racing.

And how about something for the sports fan? Their Kidz Sports line brings it *hard*! They've got basketball, ice hockey, and international soccer.

For those into the fantasy RPG thing but actually prefer playing Super Monkey Ball to Final Fantasy, they've got Myth Makers Orbs of Doom.

Best part is there ain't no $60 being dropped on these titles, nuh-uh. They can each be had for $19.99.

So while everyone's playing the same-ol'-same-ol' on the 360 and PS3, Wii owners can kick it with motion-controlled mayhem for under 20-bills, which means there's more money for the hard liquor it'll take to forget that you can't get must-play titles on the Wii like Rock Band, BioShock, the Orange Box, Call of Duty 4, Rainbow Six Vegas, Assassin's Creed, Ratchet & Clank, Halo, Gears of War, or Grand Theft Auto.[/QUOTE]
:rofl:

It's funny because it's true.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Oh Scobie, you little scamp. When will you realize that your pitiful Garamond will never triumph over the Empire of Arial?[/QUOTE]

You Arial guys are almost as bad as those dudes who back Times New Roman... I swear, you turn every single thread you post in into a font war topic!!!
 
That's because only non-writers use Garamond. You want a real, hardcore book? You have to look in Arial or TNR. Crime & Punishment? Arial. Animal Farm? Arial. Cat's Cradle? Arial and Times New Roman.

Garamond is just a bunch of weak, cheap shit like "Chicken Soup". You'd have to be a total fanboy to stick with Garamond - it's ruining the font industry.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']That's because only non-writers use Garamond. You want a real, hardcore book? You have to look in Arial or TNR. Crime & Punishment? Arial. Animal Farm? Arial. Cat's Cradle? Arial and Times New Roman.

Garamond is just a bunch of weak, cheap shit like "Chicken Soup". You'd have to be a total fanboy to stick with Garamond - it's ruining the font industry.[/QUOTE]

Garamond is a superior font. I've got lots of books in Garamond and find them to be consistently easier to read and generally higher quality than books printed in other fonts.
 
Bullshit. It's a gimmick, plain and simple, and it usually doesn't even work. Does it sometimes go alright? Sure. But even then, it's only ever "different" - never "better". There's never been anything written in Garamond that wouldn't be done better in Arial.
 
This is so true, I get most of my information from sites just like this. They dont need to target me because if I read about something I like I will get all the information myself and read others input and use that to make my choice.

It's funny though as I hardly see any advertising outside of the gaming community at all. Very, very few TV spots or print ads as well.

[quote name='Rig']When does a company *ever* have to market to the hardcore gamers?

The hardcore gamers are the ones that are on forums, they know when games are released, and they don't need a commercial showing them what they are already going to buy.

So yes, they are marketing to the hardcore gamer enough...even if it's almost none.[/quote]
 
It's weird because when the Gamecube was around there were some harder edge 3rd party titles like Hitman 2, Dead To Rights, and Eternal Darkness but it didn't really seem to make a difference because the PS2 just picked up steam and never looked back. I personally defended the cube because I really liked the hardware and the wavebird. I noticed some 3rd party titles were a lot quicker with load times and the controller felt more comfortable to me. Even though I liked the Cube it didn't stop me from owning a PS2. All in all a love for one particular system is insane...why? A gamer goes where the games are so....

3rd parties can continue to rant and rave about Nintendo and their games but the truth is they aren't making gamers games for the Wii. Square Enix can complain all they want and call the Wii a toy but when you put out Chocobo Tales out instead of a real game like Final Fantasy XIII what do you expect? When EA gives us Ninja Reflex instead of Army of Two what do you expect? When you get another watered down version of the A+ title on the PS3 and 360 does it make the hardcore happy? Graphics aside from everything else is there a certain secret magic that makes a good game only possible on the PS3 and 360? I understand all about the horsepower but its obvious that developers are not spending the time to polish game x for the Wii the way they are for the other systems. It might almost make sense to I don't know make a completely different game for the different system but we all know that development costs don't allow for such things.

So what did Nintendo do to turn things in their favor? They took what already worked (their 1st party titles) and added the casual fun for everyone games and put them together on the same system. They are now looking at a broader range of people and so far it has worked at least in system sales. It seems to me when it comes to the "hardcore" Nintendo is just doing what they have always done and put out the next Zelda, Metroid, and Mario. I think they will continue to try and grab all types of gamers rather than just the hardcore market.

I have to be honest though I actually like the Cube more than the Wii, at least so far. I'm wondering if system sales will force 3rd parties to re-evaluate the system at some point and the games they are putting out. As a gamer I liked Zelda, Mario, and the fact that I can now play Sin and Punishment in the U.S. so the system has its merits for me. I also own an XBOX 360 so I feel like I'm getting the best of both worlds. As for Nintendo I think they are just going to keep on being Nintendo. Love it or hate it they always just do what they do.
 
You can tell I'm bored tonight. I've got things I really need to get done, and get done soon, yet I haven't even touched 'em. Eh.[quote name='jkam']It's weird because when the Gamecube was around there were some harder edge 3rd party titles like Hitman 2, Dead To Rights, and Eternal Darkness but it didn't really seem to make a difference because the PS2 just picked up steam and never looked back.[/quote]Notably, Hitman 2 was released months and months after it appeared on the Xbox and PS2 - and the first Hitman was never even on the GC. As you would expect, it sold poorly. So poorly, the published dropped the GC shortly thereafter.

[quote name='jkam']3rd parties can continue to rant and rave about Nintendo and their games but the truth is they aren't making gamers games for the Wii.[/quote]While there's been a crapload of crap, there are also gems - gems like Zack & Wiki that are so horrendously advertised that absolutely nobody notices them except for internet nerds.

[quote name='jkam']Square Enix can complain all they want and call the Wii a toy but when you put out Chocobo Tales out instead of a real game like Final Fantasy XIII what do you expect?[/quote]Or better yet - a destined-to-fail game like GC's Crystal Chronicles, weighed down by absolutely useless connectivity. When done in a game like Zelda or Pac-Man, connectivity can be fun - when done in CC, it just ruins everything. The director was the same guy who usually does the more-miss-than-hit SaGa series. Doomed from the fucking start.

[quote name='jkam']When EA gives us Ninja Reflex instead of Army of Two what do you expect? When you get another watered down version of the A+ title on the PS3 and 360 does it make the hardcore happy? Graphics aside from everything else is there a certain secret magic that makes a good game only possible on the PS3 and 360?[/quote]Porting between PS3 and 360 is a lot easier than from one of those to Wii.

[quote name='jkam']I understand all about the horsepower but its obvious that developers are not spending the time to polish game x for the Wii the way they are for the other systems.[/quote]And those games are selling. Look at something like "Carnival Games" - sold quite well, no? Of course, shit sells for every system. Always has, always will. This is hardly a new phenomena.

[quote name='jkam']It seems to me when it comes to the "hardcore" Nintendo is just doing what they have always done and put out the next Zelda, Metroid, and Mario. I think they will continue to try and grab all types of gamers rather than just the hardcore market. [/quote]The claim that "Nintendo is going to focus purely on the casual market" is hard to reconcile with the purchase of RPG developer MonolithSoft. Or the existence of Retro (many of whose members wanted to split with Nintendo after they found out about the Wii) and Intelligent Systems.

...

What the fuck has Monolith been doing, anyway? Lazy bastards. Get to work already.
 
I'm really surprised the thread got this far. Rarely do compaines market toward's their most hardcore fans. Let's be honest, if you owned a Wii on launch day, you are an informed consumer. You will find out about the information that you desire. Nintendo doesn't have to spoon feed it to you, you are willing to find it.

It's the same with tv's. You know the people that bought HD tv's years ago, thinking it would be huge? Do you think anyone markets to them, nope? All the advertising now is to try to get those that don't have one into the store to buy it.

Will Nintendo change this? Hell no. They just made $2.3 billion (can't remember the time frame now, if that was the fiscal year, or the quarter). Doesn't matter, Nintendo is practically printing money right now. Nothing is going to change.

Also, I think Wii sports will stay as the spotlight game. First off, every Wii owner in the US has it. Secondly, it plays perfectly to showing the Wii controls and the accessibility (SMG might be a better game, but not everyone is interested in it. I have people who think the Wii is kiddy come to my house, and they will cave in and play Wii sports (they won't for Mario) and they enjoy it. Plus, Wii sports is pick up and play easy. My 4-5 year old nieces/nephews can play (supervised) and enjoy it (they don't rock at bowling, but they can get the ball down, hit pins, and have a great time).
 
imo i think the hardcore gamer gets support from nintendo by way of the ds but the wii is definetly more for nongamers and casual gamers which they are a big part of the systems overall success.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']It's just that... using Mother as your reason for saying that Nintendo doesn't care about more traditional gamers? Because they haven't translated a game that would sell 10 copies, they're gonna stop with the Zelda and the Metroid? There's no denying that they're making a lot more money going in this new direction, but... Mother? What the hell?[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't consider Zelda and Metroid hardcore. Most of the copies sold of those are to the non-hardcore. They are more "hardcore" than Wii Fit or Wii Sports, but pretty much anything is.

And now we're just arguing semantics.
 
i don't even know what's hardcore anymore...

The way i see it, if you can pick up a controller and able to play regardless you have any video game experience, then it's not hardcore.

For Wii, it's target audience is not hardcore gamers. I'm sorry, but controlling Link, Mario and Samus on the Wii is not "hardcore" to start with. Hell, anything using Wiimote is not exactly hardcore (maybe Super Paper Mario Wii). Why? Well, err, you shouldn't feel sores from rest of your body other than your fingers...

The Wii is cool to have i give you that ;) But if you're a gamer prior to the Wii, then the Wii is not enough! Yes, that's right, not enough... If you're saying the Wii is enough for you, you're not exactly a hardcore gamer and you're kidding yourself as a gamer. Of course, since the Wii got all the GC features, so technically it got hardcore stuffs from the GC (but since GC softwares are dead, doesn't really count). Lastly, the VC games are hardcore as well, so again, that makes the Wii hardcore. However, VC games don't really count as well (don't tell me you get the Wii just b/c of VC games).
 
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