Is the Wii ruining the gaming future?

[quote name='Ryuukishi']The Wii is a fad, by definition, and even if it's not a fad, it's still a fad. And if it's really not a fad, then the "Wii 2" is a fad, which means the Wii 1 was also a fad. See, I have been paying attention to this thread. :)[/QUOTE]

I am officially done trying to reason with you. I seriously thought it could be done but this post shows it cant. I offered you an exact defintion saying that if the Wii 2 did the same thing the Wii did and was still such a smash success it wouldn't be a fad. Yet look how you respond? Rather childish good job.

The difference between the Wii and the DS is that it took much longer for publishers - not developers - to take the system seriously, and it's understandable. I, myself, thought Nintendo was insane when they showed the controller for the first time. And announced the name. And showed the technical specs. I had no intention of getting a Wii at all - Nintendo or not - until someone got me it for my birthday, and I quickly realized what all the fuss is about.
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I thought the WIi would be a succese from the start and it was. I also saw the potential in the controller. Again difference between me and you is I saw it from the start. Difference between me and you is even though we are on the same page you cant seem to get it through your thick skull my problem isnt with the controller or the expansion into the casual market. ITs the lack of quality titles.

Times have changed today. Big developers - EA, Ubisoft, Square-Enix, and others - have pledged serious support for the Wii. EA produces a version of their EA Sports line specifically for the Wii, and while they aren't sim titles, they still carry their own for what they are. Plus, the EA Casual line shows that EA knows how to target games to specific consoles and markets instead of just releasing terrible ports of HD games. (Hello, Craptivision.)
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Yes they pledged support and have they done anything? No they have given the Wii a few sub par titles so far and most of whats coming up is not announced or sub par minus a few games like DQ. And just because you support a system doesnt mean you give it good games. Hell you show this with EA, tehy arnt treated the Wii as a place to really put effort into, their treat it as a place to put shovelware in to make a quick buck.

Square-Enix announced today that Dragon Warrior X - not some half-ass spin-off, but the next official edition of Japan's biggest franchise - is going to be a Wii exclusive. Square-Enix takes both consoles extremely seriously, and this is a company that at one point was swearing they'd never do business with Nintendo again. Square-Enix is also, notably, not a casual game company. They've had brief flirtations with such games, but if you give a grandma or a six-year-old a copy of Dragon Warrior, don't come running to me when they end up with tears in their eyes.
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Yes and Square Enix said last generation they would give the GC serious development and did they? NO
They said last gen they would give the Xbox serious development and did they? NO
Capcom said that they would and did they? ya for 2 minutes before all their games also started hitting the PS2

Again this is the difference between me and you fanboys. I wanted the Wii to do well but I accept it for what it is. A fad without a lot of support. If games start coming to it great then ill be buying them all! But in the mean time I am not going to sit and hold on to promises from developers that games are coming while at the same time they activly announce bigger name titles for other systems.

Now, they're practically in bed together.
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Ya kind of like last generation right? *rolls his eyes*
Lets see we have FFXIII the biggest series they have hitting the PS3/360 and numerous smaller titles such as Star Ocean hitting it as well. Then we have 1 single title hitting the Wii. Given DQ is HUGE in Japan but everywhere else it is a minor player. This is still a huge announcement but that you try and say they are in bed together just is insanity.

Nintendo (via Miyamoto and Fils-Aime) has told us about new Pikmin titles, new Mario titles, new Zelda titles, the new Punch-Out!!, and others. This is on top of the rumors that people continue to propagate; Kid Icarus is the big one. Honestly, how many games do you expect a developer to be working on simultaneously? They're juggling their AAA-titles as well as their casual titles (Wii Sports Resort, etc.).

Again, why is everybody holding Nintendo to higher standards than the other content providers? I can name two games that Sony has in the pipeline (God of War 3 and Infamous), and one and a half that Microsoft is working on (Halo Wars and Halo Recon).
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Ermmmm ok they have shown punch out but have they shown any of the others? No. Is there always a new Mario game in development? Yep, same with Zelda. But they havnt been shown nor has anything else. Nintendo isnt being held to a higher standard(though it should be because they are fuckING NINTENDO who has always been Gods among other developers). Sony has actually shown both of those games as well as others such as that big 120 or however many shooter, said that a new Drake game is in the making and a new Ratchet. Same with MS who has actually shown content for both Halo games, announced another is on the way and has numerous others and constantly seem to be annoucning or hinting at something new as they did with Crackdown 2 the other day. They have done all this while working with guys like the Gears team to keep games exclusive to their platformers and bring more support like FFXIII where again Nintendo is not working on third party enough.

Nintendo has always ran circles around the competition. It was a joke to even imply that Sony or MS put out near as many good console games as Nintendo. Now though Sony and MS are actually competing with Nintendo which is just incredibly sad and shows how far Nintendo has fallen. Nintendo still makes great games and yes things like Mario or Zelda are around the bend....but its a long bend and we arnt even seeing anything to show its coming soon. In the mean time we are not seeing new stuff like Eternal Darkness hit and the few stuff that does hit again are great titles but not as good as their old stuff as Mario kart proved.

Anyways I am done with this. You guys just keep saying "games are on the way" and I ask you to name stuff that we know is coming next year and you cant. I have shown that I can for the other platforms. You then talk about sales...then go back to games. Again your argument is all over the place and you have a complete inability to not just stay on topic, but to actually validate a single point.

I keep promising not to waste time on boards then a topic like this sucks me in and costs me 2 or 3 hours from a great game like Tales of Vesperia or Suikoden V.

Enjoy your Wii, there are indeed good games on it and I cant wait to play stuff like Zack and Wiki 2 and that all black white and red game Sega is making(its name is slipping my mind). Just try and get your finger out of Nintendos ass and realize there arnt enough of them.
 
[quote name='corrosivefrost']I can't even begin to think of how to word this right.
But I'm going to try...

I don't remember who, but someone pointed out that the Wii is just a $250 board game for most families. They buy it, they bring it out once or twice a year for holiday gathers and the like... sure the novelty of the system may keep people interested in the Wii for a short time, but over the long haul, it seems Joe Consumer is getting a Wii and then it's becoming a collector of dust. To determine whether the Wii is a fad or not, I think you need to look toward the next iteration of the hardware. When the next version of the Wii is released, how many of the current owners will buy the new system? If the Wii 2, or whatever Nintendo's next console is, doesn't sell at the pace of, or better than, the Wii, then I believe it would qualify as a fad.[/QUOTE]

It was someone on gametrailers bonus round or kotaku. 2 places where again time and time we have seen that everyone in the industry including developers see the Wii as a fad or a great place to put shovelare not a serious development too.

Thank you for at least having a brain and being an educated gamer ;)

Later guys.
 
[quote name='Renaissance 2K']
Nintendo (via Miyamoto and Fils-Aime) has told us about new Pikmin titles, new Mario titles, new Zelda titles, the new Punch-Out!!, and others. This is on top of the rumors that people continue to propagate; Kid Icarus is the big one. Honestly, how many games do you expect a developer to be working on simultaneously? They're juggling their AAA-titles as well as their casual titles (Wii Sports Resort, etc.).

Again, why is everybody holding Nintendo to higher standards than the other content providers? I can name two games that Sony has in the pipeline (God of War 3 and Infamous), and one and a half that Microsoft is working on (Halo Wars and Halo Recon).
[/quote]

This is probably because Nintendo has been absolutely balls about getting proper 3rd party support for their console since the SNES days. Since the large majority of AAA titles are first party on Nintendo consoles, I think this is where the pressure comes from. Look at this past year: 360/PS3 gets a bunch of AAA titles as a mix of first and third party. Fallout 3, Fable 2, Gears 2, Little Big Planet, Resistance 2, Metal Gear Solid 4, Devil May Cry 4, Ninja Gaiden 2, GTA IV, Soul Calibur 4, Call of Duty, etc.

How long is the list for Nintendo this year? Animal Crossing: City Folk (I think most of the other big name Wii games have been out for a while... Twilight Princess (essentially a port), MP3, Mario Party, WarioWare, SPM, NMH, SMG, etc...) And from my perspective, all the games you mention in Nintendo's pipeline are essentially remakes, most from last generation, as a lot of the shovelware ports have been... (Capcom, I'm looking at you...RE4, Okami, Dead Rising [that's a whole 'nother thread right there)...
 
Yeah, it's really the lack of third party support that has killed Nintendo for me. They ruled the 8 bit and 16 bit eras as they had their great first party stuff, plus the best third party support.

But since then they've had the worst third party support, and I've tired of/outgrown most of their first party franchises so I just have no reason to own their console anymore. The Wii is great if you still love their games and love all the casual games. And it will probably get more support in terms of quirky Japanese games, JRPGs etc. as time goes on and it continues to sell well here and in Japan.

But it's never going to satisfy the needs of gamers like me who play FPS games, Western RPGs etc, and that's fine. Again, for what feels like the 100th time in this thread, there's plenty of room in the gaming industry for a machine like the Wii and the types of games on it, and machines like the 360 and PS3 and the types of games on them. Variety is always a good thing.
 
LOL @ MSI saying everyone's arguments are all over the place.

Oh, and pre-rendered cutscenes don't count as game content, so throw all those game trailers from Sony into the bin. A 30-second zoom on Kratos' face doesn't count as "showing us the game". They didn't even give us a proper logo.

Yes, the Wii was a "succese". It made a ton of money and sold a ton of units despite its shortfalls. That's more than Sony and Microsoft with their ten billion SKUs and subsidized pricing can say, third-party support and all.

No, while it will certainly shake things up, it's not going to destroy the gaming industry. We survived Bush. We'll survive the Wii.

For the record, other than for Mega Man 9, I haven't used my Wii regularly since I moved and got my new HDTV. You can agree with something and not be a fanboy.
 
I think that 3rd parties could totally stop making games for the system (Wii), and it would still sell the most console units.
 
Honestly, I just REALLY, REALLY hope MS and Sony don't decide to take a Wii-ish approach to the next generation.

I guess it's unlikely, but if it happened, it'd be a total bummer for gamers everywhere.
 
Microsoft supposedly hired out Rare to do both the Avatars and their motion control system. Avatars turned out pretty well, but the motion controls are rumored to be pretty shaky, and Rare isn't happy.

I'm sure we all saw Sony's weird multi-piece controller that used the PlayStation camera to read ultrasonic... er, ultraviolet... ultraviolent... some kind of ultra-waves to capture motions.

If the Wii really is a fad, all three companies are going to be in for one hell of a disappointment.
 
[quote name='corrosivefrost']I can't even begin to think of how to word this right.
But I'm going to try...

I don't remember who, but someone pointed out that the Wii is just a $250 board game for most families. They buy it, they bring it out once or twice a year for holiday gathers and the like... sure the novelty of the system may keep people interested in the Wii for a short time, but over the long haul, it seems Joe Consumer is getting a Wii and then it's becoming a collector of dust. To determine whether the Wii is a fad or not, I think you need to look toward the next iteration of the hardware. When the next version of the Wii is released, how many of the current owners will buy the new system? If the Wii 2, or whatever Nintendo's next console is, doesn't sell at the pace of, or better than, the Wii, then I believe it would qualify as a fad.[/quote]


Well said. I wholeheartedly agree.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']And there's nothing wrong with that, there's just a few Nintendo fan's here trying to argue how great a system the Wii is, rather than simply realizing that it's really not a console for the "hardcore" gamer or anyone into genres like FPS, Western RPG etc.[/quote]

Believe me, I get your over-arching theme that gaming is a big tent and there is room for all manners of games, even if they dont appeal to you personally.

But I find myself, once again, bothered by this mythical "hardcore gamer". I cannot define what makes someone "hardcore", and no one has done it for me. Take me for example: I'm a CAG, post on these and other VG forums, listen to a whole host of VG podcasts, I buy an average of 2 titles a month, own several systems including handhelds. I certainly *seem* like someone who would fit the "hardcore" mantra.

But I havent played an FPS for any significant length of time since Wolfenstein 3D (except for Portal). The only WRPG I've really tried is Fable 2 (hated it). My most played games of this year are adventure games (Phoenix Wright series, Trace/Hotel Dusk, CSI, Layton), sports titles, music games (RB/GH/Singstar) and a couple of "blockbusters" (Assassin's Creed, GTA4). These are either as mainstream as is gets or border on being "non-games" (Trace/HD215 are little more than interactive novels). But I spend 15-20 hours a week on gaming related activities. As I see it, that's pretty "hardcore".

So for a gamer like me, I can actually find stuff to play on the Wii, particularly the "point-and-click" type adventure games. Thus, I cannot wholly get behind the "Wii is not for the hardcore gamer" mantra. I guess if you're an FPS gamer, yes, the Wii is not for you (though they have FPSes I hear they suck). But if that's the breadth and depth of the hardcore gamer definiton, I'd proffer that's fairly niche.

my two lincolns :)
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']PS2 was a fad?[/quote]
Clearly its only had good sales for 8 years(not even a quarter of a century) and the failure of the PS3 shows that the only it sold so well for 8 years was do to it being a fad.
And if any dares to disagree, they are clearly not reading my post right.
 
[quote name='hostyl1']
But I find myself, once again, bothered by this mythical "hardcore gamer".
[/quote]

I hate it as well an that's why I've put the term in quotations throughout the thread.

If it's going to be used it should probably just be applied to anyone who plays a lot of games regardless of what type of games they play I guess.

But labels are always hard as there are so many different types of gamers. People who barely play, people who play a lot. People who play games in a ton of genres, people who only play one genre. People who primarily like Japanese games, people who primarily play western gamers. People who only play a MMO. People who only play Madden. People who only play FPS. etc. etc. etc.

Again, it just comes down to the fact that games are just stupid little diversions we play to have fun and people should just play what they like and not waste time arguing or being fanboys for various consoles or companies.

I can get some bitching if a type of game a person likes is on the decline (like DMK with 2D gaming) but with few exceptions there truly is something for everyone this generation. It's a great time to be a gamer!
 
Why is defining what a "hardcore" gamer is, so difficult?

The hardcore gamers are the nerds. The geeks. Ya know, us. The hardcore gamers are the people who follow the latest news, and argue about it, and get mad, read gaming blogs, and participate in gaming forums.
They are the people who have been doing it for years as a hobby. Something they do for a few hours a day (if/when possible). They aren't usually very genre specific, as they can get into most genres.

Why is this so hard?
Is it because the Wii is marketed towards our moms, that the "Today's Nintendo Fanboy" (who considers themselves a hardcore gamer) feels left out? Is this why "A GAMER IS A GAMER AND NOTHING MORE!!!!!!! :waggles remote::"

:whistle2:s
 
It gets hard as you get into specifics. You say they get into most genres. Does that mean that someone who plays Madden 20-40 hours a week isn't a hard core gamer? Or someone that plays WoW 60 hours a week isn't?

It's in the specifics where the arguments arise. But in all I think it works but just needs a very general definition of someone who spends a lot of time gaming and considers it one of their main hobbies.
 
But people don't play the Wii Madden version like that. People don't play anything like WoW on the Wii.

It also goes with how active in the gamer community they are. If you're someone who only plays Madden and you play that religiously...what reason would you have to be on a forum? Reading a news blog?

Maybe just a Madden specific forum/blog (or WoW forum/blog, in that sense)..so no, that would not make someone really a hardcore gamer if they are so limited.
 
See I don't think you have to read blogs, forums etc. to be hardcore gamer. And I don't think reading and posting on forums means you're hardcore. I don't consider myself a hardcore gamer anymore as I don't buy or play enough games anymore to warrant the label. But I still post here (but don't really go to any other sites) out of habit and having desk job.

So that's kind of my point, it's hard to nail down as what you consider to be hardcore gamer won't match my definition which won't match someone elses. It's easy for an individual to come up with a definition, but it's hard to reach consensus on a universal definition.
 
Just make a dynamic definition.

Hardcore gamer is anyone who is too into something concerning gaming according to your own personal standards.

They spend too much time, impose too many challenges on themselves, having too much videogame related stuff, all according to you. You can also surpass your own standards turning yourself into a hardcore gamer until you limit yourself back to your own standards.
 
But by that hardcore gamer becomes pretty much an insult.

I think someone can be hardcore gamer, movie buff etc. without being some obsessed, nerdy loser.
 
Just listen to the latest cagcast where a listener wanted to strip Cheapy and Wombat of their hardcore gamer cards because they weren't skilled enough in Gears. The main problem with the term "hardcore" gamer is that it has no definition. Every gamer has their own interpretation, and a lot of underlying connotations to go along with it.

One gamer uses hardcore to mean some sort of enlightened gamer, another uses it to demean the biggest of gaming losers.

One gamer uses casual to talk about those who might just occasionally play games, another uses it in disgust to describe the ignorant gamer, representing all that is wrong with gaming.

[quote name='itachiitachi']Clearly its only had good sales for 8 years(not even a quarter of a century) and the failure of the PS3 shows that the only it sold so well for 8 years was do to it being a fad.
And if any dares to disagree, they are clearly not reading my post right.[/QUOTE]

Nicely done
 
[quote name='msdmoney']Just listen to the latest cagcast where a listener wanted to strip Cheapy and Wombat of their hardcore gamer cards because they weren't skilled enough in Gears. The main problem with the term "hardcore" gamer is that it has no definition. Every gamer has their own interpretation, and a lot of underlying connotations to go along with it.

One gamer uses hardcore to mean some sort of enlightened gamer, another uses it to demean the biggest of gaming losers.

One gamer uses casual to talk about those who might just occasionally play games, another uses it in disgust to describe the ignorant gamer, representing all that is wrong with gaming.
[/quote]

I 100% agree with this posting, there is no such thing as a hardcore or casual gamer. IMO we are just a big gaming family, that have their own opinions on different games, and consoles.
 
[quote name='itachiitachi']Clearly its only had good sales for 8 years(not even a quarter of a century) and the failure of the PS3 shows that the only it sold so well for 8 years was do to it being a fad.
And if any dares to disagree, they are clearly not reading my post right.[/QUOTE]

This fad or not debate is kind of silly, but I don't think your analogy works here.

The PS1 and PS2 were huge successes just selling tradtional games that had been popular from the NES on. Not the same types of games, but a natural evolution. The PS3 is struggling because it cost too much at launch, but the 360 is doing well selling primarily the next evolution of traditional games. So clearly traditional genres are not a fad.

People point with stuff like Wii Fit is that it's a very different type of game and it's selling to a very different audience. Who knows if these types of games will remain popular or if sales will eventually drop. If they do drop, then they were a fad. If they continue selling well through this gen and next gen and into the future then they're here to stay and not a fad.

I don't see what the issue is there. Now people probably shouldn't toss fad out at the Wii itself. I think Nintendo is here to stay, motion controls are probably here to stay (unfortunately) etc. It's the very casual games/non games like Wii Fit that may be a fad. Sales may slow on those and Nintendo can shift gears to focus on other types of motion controlled games--both games to appeal to nintendo fans, and regular gamers and try new types of games to get the soccer moms re-interested.
 
[quote name='lilboo']Why is defining what a "hardcore" gamer is, so difficult?

The hardcore gamers are the nerds. The geeks. Ya know, us. The hardcore gamers are the people who follow the latest news, and argue about it, and get mad, read gaming blogs, and participate in gaming forums.
They are the people who have been doing it for years as a hobby. Something they do for a few hours a day (if/when possible). They aren't usually very genre specific, as they can get into most genres.

Why is this so hard?
Is it because the Wii is marketed towards our moms, that the "Today's Nintendo Fanboy" (who considers themselves a hardcore gamer) feels left out? Is this why "A GAMER IS A GAMER AND NOTHING MORE!!!!!!! :waggles remote::"

:whistle2:s[/quote]
But that's just it, I *do* participate in forums, read/listen to news, devote time to gaming, argue over whether the Wii is killing gaming ;), etc. Yet the vast majority of my gaming has been with games quite comfortable on the Wii. Rock Band, Zak & Wiki, Golf sims. Granted, I play RB on the 360, but not because I needed to, rather, I bought a 360 after I couldnt find a Wii for 6 months.

I dont think I really qualify as a Nintendo "fanboy" as I dont really get into the MKarts/Metroids/Smash Bros., that most fanboys do. I just happen to like the Wii for what it does as opposed to hate it for what it doesnt. Maybe that makes me weird (wouldnt be the first time), but I dont care. Bottom line is, I'm as hardcore as anyone, by pretty much any metric, and the Wii satisfies.
 
I think you only appreciate your Wii because you have a 360. I do enjoy my Wii! Very much, actually. It kinda sucks for what it is, BUT, I have a 360 (and a PS3 soon) for REAL gaming.

The Wii is a nice compliment to my 360.
So, no, I dont think the Wii is ruining the gaming future..it helps it appreciate the other consoles ;) :lol:
 
There is no hardcore gamer or casual gamer. There is just gamer, you either game or you don't. Plain and simple, these arguments about hardcore and casual is stupid, yes you may be good at a certain game or genre, but that doesn't mean you're best at every game. Sure some people basically play one game forever online, until the online community dies out, so they can't show off their skills, but does that mean they are a "hardcore" gamer? No.

Answer to the topic title: No the Wii is not ruining the gaming future, it is expanding the gaming future. Not every game has to have motion control, or use the pointer. Honestly, I sometimes like to sit down and play a game like it used to be. Just like the 360, PS3, the Wii is in it for the profit of a company, and it is also basically winning in Sales of the console. Maybe other companies should start thinking a bit more about making a few games that aren't as "hardcore" as the other games are.

Offtopic: Who thinks they should make a Electroplankton game for the Wii?
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Man you seriously are such a graphics whore. The DS titles are not gimmicky, the system has literally like 10x as many good games as the PSP and some titles use the touch interactivty in ways that are simply brilliant and create experiences you cant have with any other system. I really think that you need to buy one and play these games before judging them.....but given that you have gotten a hard on just talking about Persona in 1080p(which doesnt make much sense because it wouldnt even look THAT amazing since its a gameplay not graphic title)I dont you can get past the graphics to appreciate the gameplay(which again is all a gamer should truely care about).

As for DD I am not saying its perfect. The games are WAY too overpriced, most of them are double the price they realistically should be. MS, Sony and Nintendo are keeping the indy guys on a choke chain not giving them the freedom they deserve and DRM is horrible meaning we technically dont even own the games we download. Does this mean that DD has to be bad? No. Much like Nintendo could turn around the Wii with a focus on games and bringing developers to the system DD could change by having reasonably priced titles that we legally own.[/QUOTE]

How can you NOT get a hard on imagining such artistically beautiful games as the Megaten games have been in 3D in HD?! I mean it's like imagining Panzer Dragoon in HD. I mean you do the math. Which would you rather have in full on 1080p? An artistically beautiful game or a relatively dull looking one like Halo by comparison?
If being a graphics whore means I don't think the 3D of the DS can match the 16 bit of FF6 in 2D so be it. Forgive me if I still think it looks pretty good. I gotta admit Chrono Trigger has held up spectacularly throughout the years though.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I hate it as well an that's why I've put the term in quotations throughout the thread.

If it's going to be used it should probably just be applied to anyone who plays a lot of games regardless of what type of games they play I guess.

But labels are always hard as there are so many different types of gamers. People who barely play, people who play a lot. People who play games in a ton of genres, people who only play one genre. People who primarily like Japanese games, people who primarily play western gamers. People who only play a MMO. People who only play Madden. People who only play FPS. etc. etc. etc.

Again, it just comes down to the fact that games are just stupid little diversions we play to have fun and people should just play what they like and not waste time arguing or being fanboys for various consoles or companies.

I can get some bitching if a type of game a person likes is on the decline (like DMK with 2D gaming) but with few exceptions there truly is something for everyone this generation. It's a great time to be a gamer![/quote]

the day you are more then able to play a combat flight simulator on the pc is the day you are truly a hardcore gamer. playing your games on the console isn't really saying you're a hardcore gamer. the idea of a hardcore gamer is a person who plays a really hard game, that is a game hard to grasp such as a game with high learning curve like from a combat flight simulator. flight simulators don't exists any more because they're too hard. the way this guy describes it is that he is an obsessed gamer, that is one who is constantly playing games, wanting the lastest games....
 
Yes and no.

Nintendo is ruining the industry by killing innovation, the Wii has been a huge recycling project, games are being recycled from the GC era (Mario Party 8, Resident Evil 4, Okami etc.) and all the Nintendo characters/franchies are back and barely improved (Mario, Mario Kart, Metroid Prime, etc.) Afterall why bother to actually make an innovative new title when you can recycle the same old shit and sell millions of copies.

On the otherhand the game industry has become dominated by high production cost games with need to sell millions of copies just to break even which has stifled creativity since money is typically only spent on "sure bets".

So I like to think of the Wii as a system that helps bring a bit of sanity back to the gaming industry which will hopefully help spur creativity even thought it isn't really an improvement for the industry itself.
 
[quote name='pochaccoheaven']the day you are more then able to play a combat flight simulator on the pc is the day you are truly a hardcore gamer. playing your games on the console isn't really saying you're a hardcore gamer. the idea of a hardcore gamer is a person who plays a really hard game, that is a game hard to grasp such as a game with high learning curve like from a combat flight simulator. flight simulators don't exists any more because they're too hard. the way this guy describes it is that he is an obsessed gamer, that is one who is constantly playing games, wanting the lastest games....[/QUOTE]

I consider being a Core gamer that you don't give a crap who made a game as long as it's good. Also giving a game a chance if it's been called good even if it's not in a genre you like. This is a Core gamer imo. It's not such bragging douche who is saying "Look what I did." on a high score or Achievement especially. I will say I'd prefer difficulty stay though.
 
[quote name='pochaccoheaven']the day you are more then able to play a combat flight simulator on the pc is the day you are truly a hardcore gamer. playing your games on the console isn't really saying you're a hardcore gamer. the idea of a hardcore gamer is a person who plays a really hard game, that is a game hard to grasp such as a game with high learning curve like from a combat flight simulator. flight simulators don't exists any more because they're too hard. the way this guy describes it is that he is an obsessed gamer, that is one who is constantly playing games, wanting the lastest games....[/QUOTE]

No, those games don't exist anymore because they're booooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggg.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']I consider being a Core gamer that you don't give a crap who made a game as long as it's good. Also giving a game a chance if it's been called good even if it's not in a genre you like. This is a Core gamer imo. It's not such bragging douche who is saying "Look what I did." on a high score or Achievement especially. I will say I'd prefer difficulty stay though.[/QUOTE]

Just a thought, but I don't understand why people won't let other people game their way. Guess what, I have friends now who won't play a game like Oblvion, Metroid Prime, etc. Highly rated, great games, yet give him "Big Motha Truckers" or some other 'crap' game with some simple humor, and he's happy. He has 30 minutes a few times a week to play and just wants to relax. He doesn't care about an immersive experience, he just wants to have simple fun.

So, he's not a 'Core' gamer. To many here, he's the reason the industry makes crap, and I'm partially to blame, since I don't convert him. Guess what though, when he plays games, he doesn't sit there and swear at the tv for an hour later cursing the game makers. I've been known to do that from time to time.

The Wii is bringing games to a market, and it obviously struck a cord. Getting people to play games is a great thing. The more gamers there are (even if it's only Wii Sports and Wii Play) there are people who gamed. These are people that might now pause when 'evil' games like GTA are ruining people. They are now gamers, and they can see the simple truth that these games might not be for them, but they should be made (much like an R rated movie should be made).

I think the Wii is a great step to move games from a niche entertainment area to a cultural tool, like cable tv and the internet.

Sure, there will be tons of games you aren't interested in (just like there are tons of tv shows you could care less about), but I just can't see the great games being made on the Xbox 360 and PS3 over the past 2 years and think that gamers gamers want will somehow die out.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']and all the Nintendo characters/franchies are back and barely improved (Mario, Mario Kart, Metroid Prime, etc.) Afterall why bother to actually make an innovative new title when you can recycle the same old shit and sell millions of copies.[/QUOTE]

You can't seriously think that Super Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart Wii, and Metroid Prime 3 were "barely improved" over their predecessors.
 
[quote name='Renaissance 2K']You can't seriously think that Super Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart Wii, and Metroid Prime 3 were "barely improved" over their predecessors.[/QUOTE]

I can see how some one would, especially Mario Kart which I think most people think is inferior to Mario Kart DS and some other prior games in the series. At least based on reviews and reading posts on forums about.

Mario Galaxy I did think was the best of the 3D Mario's, but it didn't blow me away. But that's probably because I just don't care much for platformers anymore.

Metroid Prime 3, however, I thought was far and away the best in the series. I wasn't super crazy about the controls, but they worked pretty well. But I thought the level design was great and I loved that it had selectable difficulty as the first two games (especially the second) were too difficult for my tastes.

But in general, I'm pretty sick of all the Nintendo franchises after 25 years or so of playing them, so I don't regret ditching the Wii. I've had a lot more fun with games like Bioshock, Gears of War, Oblivion, Mass Effect etc. than I had with M ario, Metroid and Zelda on the Wii.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']No, those games don't exist anymore because they're booooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggg.[/quote]

no, those games don't exists anymore because they're too too hard for your typical gamer to play and that is why they are so boring. the learning curve is way up to the roof. there is no starting point, such as when you play some games where you are given the basics and gradually increase in combat complexity. these games all have the complexity at start to end. there are more reasons why the game is boring, so use your minds and think about it.

anyway, it's a good time for gaming. with studios having problems from closings, to low finances and smaller employees, let's see how long they will continue to support making games for the 360/ps3. let's see how long it will take and what it takes until they decide to make more effort for the wii. look at all those companies laying off and having closings, they're dropping like flies.

remember, it takes a lot of money to make games for the 360/ps3 and there are companies that are having trouble with finding those finances, so let's see how far they can go.
 
Nintendo has found a way for people who don't normally play games to play games. We say that all the time, but when you look at the Wii 3rd party sales, they aren't that good. So yes, the Wii has sold millons of consoles, but it does NOT mean that they actually brought new customers to games. People play Wii, Wii sports, Wii play, maybe Wii fit, very Wii oriented software. HOwever, they haven't picked up any new customers to play games like Zelda, Call of Duty, and other more games outside of the basic Wii concept games. Hell not even bloomblocks did that well. I don't think that the Wii has done much to help gaming, because Nintendo has people playing Wii and Wii software, but outside of that, they aren't playing anything. Thus I can't see how Nintendo has helped gaming. I dont think that it ruined it either. THe only negative drawback is that Nintendo and other devs may utilize more resources for the development of more Wii oriented software, which could take away from the mor tradiional software that regular gamers want. (ex. Instead of Star Fox / F-Zero you got Wii Fit),
 
[quote name='pochaccoheaven']
anyway, it's a good time for gaming. with studios having problems from closings, to low finances and smaller employees, let's see how long they will continue to support making games for the 360/ps3. let's see how long it will take and what it takes until they decide to make more effort for the wii. look at all those companies laying off and having closings, they're dropping like flies.

remember, it takes a lot of money to make games for the 360/ps3 and there are companies that are having trouble with finding those finances, so let's see how far they can go.[/QUOTE]

I do think we'll see more focus on the Wii--but it will be with small budget games. Casual games, quirky games etc.

We're not all of a sudden going to see a rush of big budget AAA FPS games, Western RPGs etc.

In short, it's not going to get anything to make people who don't like the games on the Wii to change their tune. This generation is set. Both in Sales--the Wii will win with the 360 finishing a distant second. And with types of games. If you don't like the Wii now, you'll never like it. If you don't like the 360 now, you'll never like. If you don't like the PS3 now, you'll never like it.

It's just the way it is as things are settled in in terms of where major AAA games go. I only play AAA FPS and western RPGs, so the 360's going to have me covered for this generation. For others the Wii or PS3 fits their gaming needs more and will continue to do so.

I just will never understand why people get so personally involved in this stuff. Just buy the console(s) that have the games you want to play, enjoy them and shut the fuck up.
 
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"it's all part of the plan"
"you're not seeing the big picture"

third parties will still be stuck with the mini game concept that they think it's all about the wii. they're still stuck in 2006.
 
[quote name='pochaccoheaven']"it's all part of the plan"

"you're not seeing the big picture"[/QUOTE]

santagif.gif
 
Meh, I'm just getting tired of the whole "cry cry companies don't care about the hardcore sniffle sniffle". The same shit was said when arcades were dying and systems like the SNES and Genesis were considered mainstream.

Here we are again, albeit things are a tad different. Games are bound to expand and if the hardcore don't like it, well, frankly the whole world can give a flying fuck about them. Damn people need to get the hell out of their basement anyway.

Because lets face it, games are entertainment and strictly that. It varies between different people and what they want and if this industry wants to be taken serious, both "core" and "casual" content needs to be considered and balanced.

In reality, even the Wii has its hardcore content, it is just the shovelware came quicker than expected. But looking down the road, things are looking extremely bright for the console. We only got a glimpse of what's to come and it is looking pretty good.

And if people want to continue to cling on to so called "loyalty" to a brand-name, fine. It is not like the industry (or any reasonable person) has listened to them in the past decade and thank God for it. If Nintendo listened to their crazy fucking fanboys, they would still be stuck producing the "GameCube's" of every generation. Besides, the idiots will buy anything they produce anyway, why listen to them?

Sales don't lie, be assure of it.

To be honest, I'm happy for the so called "casuals". They finally get to experience what I've been loving all my life and I hope no-one deprives them of their fun. In fact, I hope they expand from Brain Age and get into more core content on their own means and just because a handful of kids who know how to yell across the internet are bitching about it, doesn't mean I want anything less of.
 
[quote name='M-PG71C']
To be honest, I'm happy for the so called "casuals". They finally get to experience what I've been loving all my life and I hope no-one deprives them of their fun. In fact, I hope they expand from Brain Age and get into more core content on their own means and just because a handful of kids who know how to yell across the internet are bitching about it, doesn't mean I want anything less of.[/quote]

I think everyone should think past the Wii and it's casuals... because I have nephews that probably will grow up starting out on the Wii but will eventually grow into gamers that will have tastes for the 360/ps3.

I would say that this is the start of a gateway drug to bigger drugs... if anyone ever believes that myth... just replace drugs with console/console games.

This can only help the other companies, because right now the Wii is great, but it can't serve 100% of the people. It's right now serving people that can't get served from the Xbox or the PS3 and that might be show why Wiis sales are still dominating.
 
[quote name='xycury']I think everyone should think past the Wii and it's casuals... because I have nephews that probably will grow up starting out on the Wii but will eventually grow into gamers that will have tastes for the 360/ps3.

I would say that this is the start of a gateway drug to bigger drugs... if anyone ever believes that myth... just replace drugs with console/console games.

This can only help the other companies, because right now the Wii is great, but it can't serve 100% of the people. It's right now serving people that can't get served from the Xbox or the PS3 and that might be show why Wiis sales are still dominating.[/quote]

People act as if there is a huge software difference between the two consoles. When you really think about it, the difference is not exactly there. Nintendo may have different software for the core audience, but it is still core software. The new issue coming is that there will be a new generation of hybrid gamers.

Gamers that will happily play a round of Brain Age or Wii Sports, and then turn around and play Gears of War. People who can see the difference of, but appreciation, for both.

What hurt Nintendo this generation was, more or less, out of their control. Publishers and developers expected the 360 and PS3 to be on top, that didn't happen. You can't all of a sudden switch projects half way through and start developing more towards the Wii, that's millions of dollars of losses from the get-go. No-one is going to throw away graphics engines and the like because a new market leader emerged out of nowhere.

So what do they do to make up the losses? You can't develop for one platform independently, especially on the likes of the PS3 which both Factor 5 and Free Radical are learning the very hard way (it also didn't help the fact that their games were average, but in today's industry, it only takes one bad game to take a company and all of its employees to the pink slip line). Publishers are forced to take their games and release them on both platforms in attempts to make profits, or in today's economy reduce losses.

Nintendo still has a number of issues to deal with on the third party level. Sales have picked up, casuals despite common belief do buy games. Certainly not on the same level as core gamers but they do pick up software. They are also not as uninformed as stereotypes perpetuated by a small minority on the internet make them out to be as well. Publishers are beginning to realize that there is a significant core gamer market, much like the DS, and they cannot be ignored. At the same while, casuals are beginning to understand game quality and are evolving. That's simple thought evolution, no group remains the same over a peroid of time.

It'll come in time, I really think the Wii will end up catering to both much moreso than certain people believe. I don't see sales diminishing at all and for at least this generation and potentially next, I don't see Sony or MS finding a way to effectively go after it. Even though they clearly will, they want that money. Then again, that's a good time off from now, you never really know in this industry.

But, that in itself will create a new kind of industry; one where a platform has to be able to cater to both effectively for it to be successful. That's where Sony and MS needs to start paying attention to, which I'm sure they are.

Anyway, thanks for putting up with my rant. I just wanted to bring a little bit of my insight, I would like to think I know a little bit more about the game industry than most people for the simple fact that I have stocks in a number of companies and if I can afford it, I refuse to lose money. Thus, studying the industry intently (which was something I did for fun for years) is now coming in handy because I made a pretty nice profit from it all. :D

But what do I know, I defend the Wii, the harbringer of death to all conventional game consoles (RE: I'm a bastard!) :)
 
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[quote name='M-PG71C']See, this is what kills me. People act as if there is a huge software difference between the two consoles. When you really think about it, the difference is not exactly there. Nintendo may have different software for the core audience, but it is still core software. The new issue coming is that there will be a new generation of hybrid gamers.

Gamers that will happily play a round of Brain Age or Wii Sports, and then turn around and play Gears of War. People who can see the difference of, but appreciation, for both.

What hurt Nintendo this generation was, more or less, out of their control. Publishers and developers expected the 360 and PS3 to be on top, that didn't happen. You can't all of a sudden switch projects half way through and start developing more towards the Wii, that's millions of dollars of losses from the get-go. No-one is going to throw away graphics engines and the like because a new market leader emerged out of nowhere.

So what do they do to make up the losses? You can't develop for one platform independently, especially on the likes of the PS3 which both Factor 5 and Free Radical are learning the very hard way (it also didn't help the fact that their games were average, but in today's industry, it only takes one bad game to take a company and all of its employees to the pink slip line). Publishers are forced to take their games and release them on both platforms in attempts to make profits, or in today's economy reduce losses.

Nintendo still has a number of issues to deal with on the third party level. Sales have picked up, casuals despite common belief do buy games. Certainly not on the same level as core gamers but they do pick up software. They are also not as uninformed as stereotypes perpetuated by a small minority on the internet make them out to be as well. Publishers are beginning to realize that there is a significant core gamer market, much like the DS, and they cannot be ignored. At the same while, casuals are beginning to understand game quality and are evolving. That's simple thought evolution, no group remains the same over a peroid of time.

It'll come in time, I really think the Wii will end up catering to both much moreso than certain people believe. I don't see sales diminishing at all and for at least this generation and potentially next, I don't see Sony or MS finding a way to effectively go after it. Even though they clearly will, they want that money.

And that in itself will create a new kind of industry; one where a platform has to be able to cater to both effectively for it to be successful. That's where Sony and MS needs to start paying attention to, which I'm sure they are.

Enough with my rant though, I don't even know why I quoted you to begin with. :p[/quote]

haha I wondered why you quoted me too :p

But I think the software is different ... because you only fine what, one M rated title or two on the Wii? there isn't alot of gory adult games on the Wii.

I too find that the wii can supplement gameplay too, I do enjoy Brawl and Kart and love House of the Dead and ghost squad while also playing Mario Party and Carnival Games.

I see the PSwii or the Wii60 being used and I truly beleive that the Wii has hit a portion of the people that MS or Sony just can't hit right now.

I know they want to.. but just isn't there.

I think if Nintendo can get more developers over, MS and Sony will be sorry.

I think we could use a Rachet and Clank game or even a Psychonauts revision successfully on the Wii. I know Dead Rising is coming and I'm sure we can see the proof of sales if it's a clean port ... of how well bigger name titles can do on the "casual" side of the Wii.
 
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