Is the Wii ruining the gaming future?
- Thread starter Damianogre
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[quote name='MSI Magus']
This isnt good for the industry because those people are not being converted into gamers....they are just joining into a cult which they will eventually leave. Again you guys need to stop acting like I am saying Nintendo is killing the industry because I am not....because they are not. There is a difference between denting a market like Nintendo is doing and killing the industry. Us hardcore gamers and these new frat boy and hip hop kids that buy all the sports titles and shooting titles will sustain the industry just fine and our industry will continue to draw new people by more proper method. Again my complaint with the Wii is that they are essentially burning a forest down to get 1 years good crops.[/QUOTE]
It may not be good for the industry. But it's not bad either. It's just making money for Nintendo while Sony and MS make money selling games like Halo, Gears of War and Metal Gear Solid 4.
As long as we don't start getting less games in core genres I could careless if the Wii does well, or whether these new gamers keep buying games or get tired of the Wii and never buy another console.
It has no impact on me as long as I have 5-10 games a year I want to play in genre's I like. And that's not going to be a problem regardless of whether Nintendo's success continues or tails off in future generations. So I just don't see why you and others care. As long as we all have enough games that interest to keep us busy, who cares about anything else related to the industry besides fanboys?
This isnt good for the industry because those people are not being converted into gamers....they are just joining into a cult which they will eventually leave. Again you guys need to stop acting like I am saying Nintendo is killing the industry because I am not....because they are not. There is a difference between denting a market like Nintendo is doing and killing the industry. Us hardcore gamers and these new frat boy and hip hop kids that buy all the sports titles and shooting titles will sustain the industry just fine and our industry will continue to draw new people by more proper method. Again my complaint with the Wii is that they are essentially burning a forest down to get 1 years good crops.[/QUOTE]
It may not be good for the industry. But it's not bad either. It's just making money for Nintendo while Sony and MS make money selling games like Halo, Gears of War and Metal Gear Solid 4.
As long as we don't start getting less games in core genres I could careless if the Wii does well, or whether these new gamers keep buying games or get tired of the Wii and never buy another console.
It has no impact on me as long as I have 5-10 games a year I want to play in genre's I like. And that's not going to be a problem regardless of whether Nintendo's success continues or tails off in future generations. So I just don't see why you and others care. As long as we all have enough games that interest to keep us busy, who cares about anything else related to the industry besides fanboys?
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To be fair, he is just concerned that he isnt going to get enough games to play at some point in the distant future. Its a bit paranoid, but its legit.
I play 30 games a year, I'm marginally concerned about having enough games to play since all the genres I play have been on the sharp decline for years. I say marginally because I already have a lifetime of retro gaming backlog ready to go.
I play 30 games a year, I'm marginally concerned about having enough games to play since all the genres I play have been on the sharp decline for years. I say marginally because I already have a lifetime of retro gaming backlog ready to go.
[quote name='botticus']Using a lot of rhetoric, forum-logic and fear-mongering isn't going to help your position much.
If the Wii is damaging the industry due to its fad games, then the PS3 is worse as a Blu-Ray player. Or perhaps neither of these is true.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that attach rate numbers dont realy show much. It shows how much the casual consumer who has way too much money(or atleast too many credit cards that they are happy to charge idiotically)is spending. if you want to make the argument that the PS3 isnt much better then the Wii I will agree. Its hugely over priced, blue ray was a stupid mistake and far too many of the PS3s games are multi platform titles many of which are year old or more 360 ports. If you want to make the argument that Blue Ray is hurting the industry thought I would disagree and ask you how? I have said that the Wii is doing long term more then short term damage where as Blue Ray I think is hurting no one but Sony and long term while it wont make up for the damage it has already done will be an asset to Sony since the PS3 will be able to pump out games in a few years that the 360 probably cant.
If the Wii is damaging the industry due to its fad games, then the PS3 is worse as a Blu-Ray player. Or perhaps neither of these is true.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that attach rate numbers dont realy show much. It shows how much the casual consumer who has way too much money(or atleast too many credit cards that they are happy to charge idiotically)is spending. if you want to make the argument that the PS3 isnt much better then the Wii I will agree. Its hugely over priced, blue ray was a stupid mistake and far too many of the PS3s games are multi platform titles many of which are year old or more 360 ports. If you want to make the argument that Blue Ray is hurting the industry thought I would disagree and ask you how? I have said that the Wii is doing long term more then short term damage where as Blue Ray I think is hurting no one but Sony and long term while it wont make up for the damage it has already done will be an asset to Sony since the PS3 will be able to pump out games in a few years that the 360 probably cant.
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']To be fair, he is just concerned that he isnt going to get enough games to play at some point in the distant future. Its a bit paranoid, but its legit.
I play 30 games a year, I'm marginally concerned about having enough games to play since all the genres I play have been on the sharp decline for years. I say marginally because I already have a lifetime of retro gaming backlog ready to go.[/QUOTE]
I guess. I just don't see it as legit. Unless he's someone like you that plays a ton of games every year--which he probably does being disabled and not working. So I guess it is more legit.
For a more casual gamer like me, I'm not worried about their being enough games in genre's I like. I'm worried about having enough time after finishing my Ph D and starting my Assistant Professor job next year to play even the 5-10 games a year that interest me!
But I still see it as a silly concern with the numbers games like Halo, MGS, Gears of War, GTA etc. sell, there's clearly a huge market for those genres that is not going to be ignored regardless of how well casual games sell.
I play 30 games a year, I'm marginally concerned about having enough games to play since all the genres I play have been on the sharp decline for years. I say marginally because I already have a lifetime of retro gaming backlog ready to go.[/QUOTE]
I guess. I just don't see it as legit. Unless he's someone like you that plays a ton of games every year--which he probably does being disabled and not working. So I guess it is more legit.
For a more casual gamer like me, I'm not worried about their being enough games in genre's I like. I'm worried about having enough time after finishing my Ph D and starting my Assistant Professor job next year to play even the 5-10 games a year that interest me!
But I still see it as a silly concern with the numbers games like Halo, MGS, Gears of War, GTA etc. sell, there's clearly a huge market for those genres that is not going to be ignored regardless of how well casual games sell.
[quote name='MSI Magus'] If you want to make the argument that Blue Ray is hurting the industry thought I would disagree and ask you how? I have said that the Wii is doing long term more then short term damage where as Blue Ray I think is hurting no one but Sony and long term while it wont make up for the damage it has already done will be an asset to Sony since the PS3 will be able to pump out games in a few years that the 360 probably cant.[/QUOTE]
Well you seem to be saying that the Wii is hurting game as people are buying it who buy a couple games and will buy no more game and quit gaming all together when they get sick of it.
The point with the PS3 he was making is that many people bought it as a blu ray player, and buy no or few games, as it was the cheapest (and best) Blu Ray player for a long while.
So buy that logic, both are bad for the industry. Now if you think it's casual games selling like hot cakes that's bad as you think developers will start making casual games at the expense of FPS and other core genres, that that's a fair point. But from what I've read you've said you don't think that's the case. And I'd disagree with that point as well for reasons I noted above.
Well you seem to be saying that the Wii is hurting game as people are buying it who buy a couple games and will buy no more game and quit gaming all together when they get sick of it.
The point with the PS3 he was making is that many people bought it as a blu ray player, and buy no or few games, as it was the cheapest (and best) Blu Ray player for a long while.
So buy that logic, both are bad for the industry. Now if you think it's casual games selling like hot cakes that's bad as you think developers will start making casual games at the expense of FPS and other core genres, that that's a fair point. But from what I've read you've said you don't think that's the case. And I'd disagree with that point as well for reasons I noted above.
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']To be fair, he is just concerned that he isnt going to get enough games to play at some point in the distant future. Its a bit paranoid, but its legit.
I play 30 games a year, I'm marginally concerned about having enough games to play since all the genres I play have been on the sharp decline for years. I say marginally because I already have a lifetime of retro gaming backlog ready to go.[/QUOTE]
No that isnt what I am concerned about and again shows you missed the point. I will keep getting more and more good games because regardless of any damage Nintendo does the industry is going to keep growing. Every day new kids find video games while those of us that grow older are not growing out of the hobby as many thought we would. Every day the market will grow so we will keep seeing new developers like level 5 and mistwalker pop up and companies like Atlus get bigger.
Again my two points are that 1. Nintendo IS doing damaged to the industry even if it is minimal and long term wont set us back or anything. 2. Its a joke to try and say that the Wii is some kind of great console and that its about to pull ahead. Its games are lacking, Nintendo isnt doing enough and the announced titles coming up are few and far between.
Frankly I dont care. As you said I have more then enough games to keep me busy, hell I add like 20 games a year or more to my back log and have of them never get touched. You just need to realize that this is a message board about games.....people come here to blow time by discussing them. I am eating lunch at the moment and dont have any wrestling downloaded to watch and don't feel like reading the nytimes/reuters today so I am arguing at the boards. This is just a time waster to most of us.
I play 30 games a year, I'm marginally concerned about having enough games to play since all the genres I play have been on the sharp decline for years. I say marginally because I already have a lifetime of retro gaming backlog ready to go.[/QUOTE]
No that isnt what I am concerned about and again shows you missed the point. I will keep getting more and more good games because regardless of any damage Nintendo does the industry is going to keep growing. Every day new kids find video games while those of us that grow older are not growing out of the hobby as many thought we would. Every day the market will grow so we will keep seeing new developers like level 5 and mistwalker pop up and companies like Atlus get bigger.
Again my two points are that 1. Nintendo IS doing damaged to the industry even if it is minimal and long term wont set us back or anything. 2. Its a joke to try and say that the Wii is some kind of great console and that its about to pull ahead. Its games are lacking, Nintendo isnt doing enough and the announced titles coming up are few and far between.
Frankly I dont care. As you said I have more then enough games to keep me busy, hell I add like 20 games a year or more to my back log and have of them never get touched. You just need to realize that this is a message board about games.....people come here to blow time by discussing them. I am eating lunch at the moment and dont have any wrestling downloaded to watch and don't feel like reading the nytimes/reuters today so I am arguing at the boards. This is just a time waster to most of us.
Dr Mario Kart
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I guess its just me then. Even with the DS, sprite based and pure turn based are in big trouble. When the next leading portable is powerful enough to get everyone to go full 3D, that about calls the game for me.
Current conditions to quit gaming(1):
a) Single player dies
b) 2D dies
c) turn based dies
d) digital distribution only
e) high definition only
Current conditions to quit gaming(1):
a) Single player dies
b) 2D dies
c) turn based dies
d) digital distribution only
e) high definition only
crystalklear64
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Maybe if you never learn/gain anything it's a time waster.
[quote name='dmaul1114']Well you seem to be saying that the Wii is hurting game as people are buying it who buy a couple games and will buy no more game and quit gaming all together when they get sick of it.
The point with the PS3 he was making is that many people bought it as a blu ray player, and buy no or few games, as it was the cheapest (and best) Blu Ray player for a long while.
So buy that logic, both are bad for the industry. Now if you think it's casual games selling like hot cakes that's bad as you think developers will start making casual games at the expense of FPS and other core genres, that that's a fair point. But from what I've read you've said you don't think that's the case. And I'd disagree with that point as well for reasons I noted above.[/QUOTE]
Again your ignoring the key word long term. Attach rates should be high right now the Wii is still a fad. As its popularity wanes thats when we are going to see these people start to not buy games. Again the point is that if people buy crap games and get bored with them in 3 days they get the impression that thats what gaming is and they wont keep playing them. The issue I am promoting is more 4 years down the road kind of thing so again attach rate isnt an issue of importance at the moment, the Wii could have an attach rate of 20 and it wouldnt make a lick of difference. Basically I am talking about a long term burn out effect. If people are spending $40-$50 a pop on these games(or more in the case of crap like Wii Fit)and then they dont enjoy them for more then a few days at some point they are going to stop buying them.
A good example of the right way to bring new people into the fold is Rock Band. It is a good quality title that people are buying up like crazy but not getting sick of. Everytime we have a family event my mother in law asks me to bring my 360 and Rock Band and she now plans on buying it for her sons new PS3. The whole family plays with it fairly consecutivly thus it is bringing them in to gaming. The Wii again in comparison is not doing this, its something they get amusement out of not something they are infatuated with. If this wasnt true the damn thing wouldnt only get played with for 2 or 3 days whenever a new Wii title or somethign like M&S at olympics comes out.
The point with the PS3 he was making is that many people bought it as a blu ray player, and buy no or few games, as it was the cheapest (and best) Blu Ray player for a long while.
So buy that logic, both are bad for the industry. Now if you think it's casual games selling like hot cakes that's bad as you think developers will start making casual games at the expense of FPS and other core genres, that that's a fair point. But from what I've read you've said you don't think that's the case. And I'd disagree with that point as well for reasons I noted above.[/QUOTE]
Again your ignoring the key word long term. Attach rates should be high right now the Wii is still a fad. As its popularity wanes thats when we are going to see these people start to not buy games. Again the point is that if people buy crap games and get bored with them in 3 days they get the impression that thats what gaming is and they wont keep playing them. The issue I am promoting is more 4 years down the road kind of thing so again attach rate isnt an issue of importance at the moment, the Wii could have an attach rate of 20 and it wouldnt make a lick of difference. Basically I am talking about a long term burn out effect. If people are spending $40-$50 a pop on these games(or more in the case of crap like Wii Fit)and then they dont enjoy them for more then a few days at some point they are going to stop buying them.
A good example of the right way to bring new people into the fold is Rock Band. It is a good quality title that people are buying up like crazy but not getting sick of. Everytime we have a family event my mother in law asks me to bring my 360 and Rock Band and she now plans on buying it for her sons new PS3. The whole family plays with it fairly consecutivly thus it is bringing them in to gaming. The Wii again in comparison is not doing this, its something they get amusement out of not something they are infatuated with. If this wasnt true the damn thing wouldnt only get played with for 2 or 3 days whenever a new Wii title or somethign like M&S at olympics comes out.
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']I guess its just me then. Even with the DS, sprite based and pure turn based are in big trouble. When the next leading portable is powerful enough to get everyone to go full 3D, that about calls the game for me.
Current conditions to quit gaming(1):
a) Single player dies
b) 2D dies
c) turn based dies
d) digital distribution only
e) high definition only[/QUOTE]
Sounds to me like your just scared of the future. I love my old school 2D turn based RPGs and stuff like Klonoa to death. I think there isnt enough of it. But to make it out like if these games dissapear gaming just isnt worth it anymore is hilarous. And its even worse again that you make HD and DD bad things. Who cares of a game is HD or you downloaded it vs bought it in the store? Castle Crashers and Braid are HD DD titles and both kick tons of ass. Seeing you say crap like this makes more sense why you like the Wi....your really scared of the future.
Again ill state I am a gamer and to be a gamer just means I love games. A good game is a good game regardless of genre, definition, system or any other factor.
Current conditions to quit gaming(1):
a) Single player dies
b) 2D dies
c) turn based dies
d) digital distribution only
e) high definition only[/QUOTE]
Sounds to me like your just scared of the future. I love my old school 2D turn based RPGs and stuff like Klonoa to death. I think there isnt enough of it. But to make it out like if these games dissapear gaming just isnt worth it anymore is hilarous. And its even worse again that you make HD and DD bad things. Who cares of a game is HD or you downloaded it vs bought it in the store? Castle Crashers and Braid are HD DD titles and both kick tons of ass. Seeing you say crap like this makes more sense why you like the Wi....your really scared of the future.
Again ill state I am a gamer and to be a gamer just means I love games. A good game is a good game regardless of genre, definition, system or any other factor.
[quote name='dmaul1114']Nothing I would play there. Like I said about all I'd play on a portable are 2D platformers (new ones, no interest in replaying old games) and some puzzle games. On consoles I mainly just play FPS and western RPGs.
The PSP has a fine game line up, I just don't have any need for a second portable system. Especially one that plays mostly console-like games And I'd rather just play similar games (i.e. FPS) on the 360 than on a portable since I seldom take my DS outside of the house.[/QUOTE]
I'd rather have the console length and level product that PSP brings to the table. Let us not also forget it allows for portable anthologies that wouldn't be seen on the DS with it's comparatively low storage space.
The DS seems to have a lot of gimmicky crap imo frankly. I don't see why everyone loves it so much gamewise.
I really like how EnixSquare has already tried to butcher peoples memory by putting FF4 in shitty, blocky 3D and looks to do the same with FF6 so the DS can handle it. Too bad EnixSquare won't leave FF6 to the PS3 or higher for a 3D itineration with 1080p native textures and Lossless audio accordingly. No they have to make Terra and others look like complete SHIT!
edit: MSI digital distribution only screws us as gamers. Little to no sales, at least on XBLA. Look at how little sales happen. It's so low cost and yet they continue to try screwing us pricewise.
The PSP has a fine game line up, I just don't have any need for a second portable system. Especially one that plays mostly console-like games And I'd rather just play similar games (i.e. FPS) on the 360 than on a portable since I seldom take my DS outside of the house.[/QUOTE]
I'd rather have the console length and level product that PSP brings to the table. Let us not also forget it allows for portable anthologies that wouldn't be seen on the DS with it's comparatively low storage space.
The DS seems to have a lot of gimmicky crap imo frankly. I don't see why everyone loves it so much gamewise.
I really like how EnixSquare has already tried to butcher peoples memory by putting FF4 in shitty, blocky 3D and looks to do the same with FF6 so the DS can handle it. Too bad EnixSquare won't leave FF6 to the PS3 or higher for a 3D itineration with 1080p native textures and Lossless audio accordingly. No they have to make Terra and others look like complete SHIT!
edit: MSI digital distribution only screws us as gamers. Little to no sales, at least on XBLA. Look at how little sales happen. It's so low cost and yet they continue to try screwing us pricewise.
[quote name='Sarang01']I'd rather have the console length and level product that PSP brings to the table. Let us not also forget it allows for portable anthologies that wouldn't be seen on the DS with it's comparatively low storage space.
The DS seems to have a lot of gimmicky crap imo frankly. I don't see why everyone loves it so much gamewise.
I really like how EnixSquare has already tried to butcher peoples memory by putting FF4 in shitty, blocky 3D and looks to do the same with FF6 so the DS can handle it. Too bad EnixSquare won't leave FF6 to the PS3 or higher for a 3D itineration with 1080p native textures and Lossless audio accordingly. No they have to make Terra and others look like complete SHIT!
edit: MSI digital distribution only screws us as gamers. Little to no sales, at least on XBLA. Look at how little sales happen. It's so low cost and yet they continue to try screwing us pricewise.[/QUOTE]
Man you seriously are such a graphics whore. The DS titles are not gimmicky, the system has literally like 10x as many good games as the PSP and some titles use the touch interactivty in ways that are simply brilliant and create experiences you cant have with any other system. I really think that you need to buy one and play these games before judging them.....but given that you have gotten a hard on just talking about Persona in 1080p(which doesnt make much sense because it wouldnt even look THAT amazing since its a gameplay not graphic title)I dont you can get past the graphics to appreciate the gameplay(which again is all a gamer should truely care about).
As for DD I am not saying its perfect. The games are WAY too overpriced, most of them are double the price they realistically should be. MS, Sony and Nintendo are keeping the indy guys on a choke chain not giving them the freedom they deserve and DRM is horrible meaning we technically dont even own the games we download. Does this mean that DD has to be bad? No. Much like Nintendo could turn around the Wii with a focus on games and bringing developers to the system DD could change by having reasonably priced titles that we legally own.
The DS seems to have a lot of gimmicky crap imo frankly. I don't see why everyone loves it so much gamewise.
I really like how EnixSquare has already tried to butcher peoples memory by putting FF4 in shitty, blocky 3D and looks to do the same with FF6 so the DS can handle it. Too bad EnixSquare won't leave FF6 to the PS3 or higher for a 3D itineration with 1080p native textures and Lossless audio accordingly. No they have to make Terra and others look like complete SHIT!
edit: MSI digital distribution only screws us as gamers. Little to no sales, at least on XBLA. Look at how little sales happen. It's so low cost and yet they continue to try screwing us pricewise.[/QUOTE]
Man you seriously are such a graphics whore. The DS titles are not gimmicky, the system has literally like 10x as many good games as the PSP and some titles use the touch interactivty in ways that are simply brilliant and create experiences you cant have with any other system. I really think that you need to buy one and play these games before judging them.....but given that you have gotten a hard on just talking about Persona in 1080p(which doesnt make much sense because it wouldnt even look THAT amazing since its a gameplay not graphic title)I dont you can get past the graphics to appreciate the gameplay(which again is all a gamer should truely care about).
As for DD I am not saying its perfect. The games are WAY too overpriced, most of them are double the price they realistically should be. MS, Sony and Nintendo are keeping the indy guys on a choke chain not giving them the freedom they deserve and DRM is horrible meaning we technically dont even own the games we download. Does this mean that DD has to be bad? No. Much like Nintendo could turn around the Wii with a focus on games and bringing developers to the system DD could change by having reasonably priced titles that we legally own.
[quote name='MSI Magus']Again your ignoring the key word long term. Attach rates should be high right now the Wii is still a fad.[/quote]
Just to satisy my own curiosity: At what point would you personally be willing to admit that the Wii is a genuine success, not just a fad? It has utterly dominated console sales for two years straight, with no sign of flagging yet. Japan's two most popular franchises (Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter) have announced Wii-exclusive sequels. Game attach rate is basically equal to the Playstation 3.
You don't have to like it, just admit that it's not a short-lived fad. One more year of sales dominance? Two more years?
Just to satisy my own curiosity: At what point would you personally be willing to admit that the Wii is a genuine success, not just a fad? It has utterly dominated console sales for two years straight, with no sign of flagging yet. Japan's two most popular franchises (Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter) have announced Wii-exclusive sequels. Game attach rate is basically equal to the Playstation 3.
You don't have to like it, just admit that it's not a short-lived fad. One more year of sales dominance? Two more years?
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Maybe someday I'll get over the ownership thing with regards to DD. Not in the foreseeable future though.
As for the future, I LOVE waggle, and new forms of input.
When someone finally makes gaming transcend the Television screen, it will probably bring me back in.
As for the future, I LOVE waggle, and new forms of input.
When someone finally makes gaming transcend the Television screen, it will probably bring me back in.
[quote name='Ryuukishi']Just to satisy my own curiosity: At what point would you personally be willing to admit that the Wii is a genuine success, not just a fad? It has utterly dominated console sales for two years straight, with no sign of flagging yet. Japan's two most popular franchises (Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter) have announced Wii-exclusive sequels. Game attach rate is basically equal to the Playstation 3.
You don't have to like it, just admit that it's not a short-lived fad. One more year of sales dominance? Two more years?[/QUOTE]
Just because its a fad doesn't meant it isnt a success. It has made Nintendo a shit ton of money and will probaly end up being the best selling console this generation. I thought all along this was going to be the case and that this system was going to run the game this generation.
I am talking about it from a gaming stand point. From a game stand point the system is hardly worth it as this point and the development is lacking. Dragon Quest JUST got announced(and personally I think DQ is an average and overated series that only remains because of the Japanese insane obsession with it)and Monster Hunter again is not that great of a series? Check out its review averages of the games? Its much like DQ in the sense that its a series largly for a hand full of hugely devoted fans.
Even so like I said those are 2 titles for the Wii that even if I dont like them others do so great. The problem is that ouside that you can name a few others like Mad World and Punch out but what else? Vs the 360 and PS3 which we can sit and comfortably say we know FFXIII is on the way, 3 new Halos(halo wars, the Xpack for Halo 3 and a new halo), Dead Rising 2 etc etc. The other 2 consoles have been lapping the Wii and now they are kicking into the part of a consoles life where we are seeing more and more great games announced....on the Wii if anything things are slowing.
You don't have to like it, just admit that it's not a short-lived fad. One more year of sales dominance? Two more years?[/QUOTE]
Just because its a fad doesn't meant it isnt a success. It has made Nintendo a shit ton of money and will probaly end up being the best selling console this generation. I thought all along this was going to be the case and that this system was going to run the game this generation.
I am talking about it from a gaming stand point. From a game stand point the system is hardly worth it as this point and the development is lacking. Dragon Quest JUST got announced(and personally I think DQ is an average and overated series that only remains because of the Japanese insane obsession with it)and Monster Hunter again is not that great of a series? Check out its review averages of the games? Its much like DQ in the sense that its a series largly for a hand full of hugely devoted fans.
Even so like I said those are 2 titles for the Wii that even if I dont like them others do so great. The problem is that ouside that you can name a few others like Mad World and Punch out but what else? Vs the 360 and PS3 which we can sit and comfortably say we know FFXIII is on the way, 3 new Halos(halo wars, the Xpack for Halo 3 and a new halo), Dead Rising 2 etc etc. The other 2 consoles have been lapping the Wii and now they are kicking into the part of a consoles life where we are seeing more and more great games announced....on the Wii if anything things are slowing.
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Simple matter of opinion. If you can invalidate the biggest franchises in Japan because you dont like them, I can claim that I dont like the AAA titles on the 360/PS3.
First of all, the ONLY reason most of them are on the HD systems is because they were pledged before all the systems launched or very early on. They had to guess and they guessed wrong. First RE5 trailer/teaser - July 2005. Same with DMC4 and FF13. The Wii will never have the Western developers (PC), so thats a lost cause (Epic, Bethsoft).
Marketshare and developer support exist as a feedback loop. Of course I already think that the Wii has the best games by a wide margin, even with a lineup that pales in comparison to previous generations. Its only going to get better. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Like clockwork.
First of all, the ONLY reason most of them are on the HD systems is because they were pledged before all the systems launched or very early on. They had to guess and they guessed wrong. First RE5 trailer/teaser - July 2005. Same with DMC4 and FF13. The Wii will never have the Western developers (PC), so thats a lost cause (Epic, Bethsoft).
Marketshare and developer support exist as a feedback loop. Of course I already think that the Wii has the best games by a wide margin, even with a lineup that pales in comparison to previous generations. Its only going to get better. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Like clockwork.
[quote name='MSI Magus']Just because its a fad doesn't meant it isnt a success.[/quote]
That's not an answer.
The word "fad" implies that the success is temporary, that at some point there will be a backlash and the Wii's popularity will sharply and permanently decline. That's what you believe will happen, correct? The question is, what would have to happen to make you decide that you were incorrect, and that the Wii's popularity is solid and enduring? If your answer is "outsells every other console until 2015, plus Halo 4 and Final Fantasy 14 announced as Wii exclusives," that's fine, I'm just curious what it is.
That's not an answer.
The word "fad" implies that the success is temporary, that at some point there will be a backlash and the Wii's popularity will sharply and permanently decline. That's what you believe will happen, correct? The question is, what would have to happen to make you decide that you were incorrect, and that the Wii's popularity is solid and enduring? If your answer is "outsells every other console until 2015, plus Halo 4 and Final Fantasy 14 announced as Wii exclusives," that's fine, I'm just curious what it is.[quote name='MSI Magus']Again your ignoring the key word long term. Attach rates should be high right now the Wii is still a fad. As its popularity wanes thats when we are going to see these people start to not buy games. Again the point is that if people buy crap games and get bored with them in 3 days they get the impression that thats what gaming is and they wont keep playing them. The issue I am promoting is more 4 years down the road kind of thing so again attach rate isnt an issue of importance at the moment, the Wii could have an attach rate of 20 and it wouldnt make a lick of difference. Basically I am talking about a long term burn out effect. If people are spending $40-$50 a pop on these games(or more in the case of crap like Wii Fit)and then they dont enjoy them for more then a few days at some point they are going to stop buying them.
A good example of the right way to bring new people into the fold is Rock Band. It is a good quality title that people are buying up like crazy but not getting sick of. Everytime we have a family event my mother in law asks me to bring my 360 and Rock Band and she now plans on buying it for her sons new PS3. The whole family plays with it fairly consecutivly thus it is bringing them in to gaming. The Wii again in comparison is not doing this, its something they get amusement out of not something they are infatuated with. If this wasnt true the damn thing wouldnt only get played with for 2 or 3 days whenever a new Wii title or somethign like M&S at olympics comes out.[/QUOTE]
I see your point. There are better ways to attract people to gaming and get them to stay probably than the casual stuff. And certainly better ways to bring them in and get them to try core games--FPS etc.
But honestly, I just don't care. I have plenty of games to play. And the games and genre's I like tend to sell like crazy so I'm going to be set going forward regardless of how much the gaming market expands or how it expands.
[quote name='MSI Magus']Sounds to me like your just scared of the future.
[/QUOTE]
He definitely is. I get his dislike of certain genres, and that sucks for him as the genre's he likes are getting sparse.
I don't get the hatred of HD. I get the current point that high development costs make it hard for indy developers to make the kinds of games he wants to play as they don't sell enough to recoup costs. But in the future as HD is the standard development costs will drop and it will no longer be an issue.
Then he could have his genre's with great HD graphics. But I think he's just totally stuck in his ways and just wants blocky sprite based graphics. In which case he just needs to go retro gaming only.
[quote name='Sarang01']I'd rather have the console length and level product that PSP brings to the table. Let us not also forget it allows for portable anthologies that wouldn't be seen on the DS with it's comparatively low storage space.
The DS seems to have a lot of gimmicky crap imo frankly. I don't see why everyone loves it so much gamewise.
I really like how EnixSquare has already tried to butcher peoples memory by putting FF4 in shitty, blocky 3D and looks to do the same with FF6 so the DS can handle it. Too bad EnixSquare won't leave FF6 to the PS3 or higher for a 3D itineration with 1080p native textures and Lossless audio accordingly. No they have to make Terra and others look like complete SHIT!
edit: MSI digital distribution only screws us as gamers. Little to no sales, at least on XBLA. Look at how little sales happen. It's so low cost and yet they continue to try screwing us pricewise.[/QUOTE]
Yeah it's just a matter of what you want. The main thing for me is I don't need a portable system. I travel a lot, but it's usually for work and I just spend my flight working on the laptop and/or reading stuff. So a portable would only get played at home mostly, and there I'd rather just play the 360.
The exception is if a portable is the only way to play a type of game that interests me. 2D platformers are pretty much dead on the consoles, and the DS had a good rush of them from 2005 through 2006 or so.
Though I'd agree that since then the game line up has stunk for me. Lots of well reviewed games but they're in genre's like JRPG, SRPG, point and click adventure etc. which I don't care for.
Similary the PSP has a bunch of great games, but I'm not going to play something like God of War or any FPS games on a portable when I could just fire up a console on the 50" TV. But I definitely see the appeal for people who actually want a portable system for the portability aspect. I don't need that and doubt I'll ever buy another portable system in the future.
A good example of the right way to bring new people into the fold is Rock Band. It is a good quality title that people are buying up like crazy but not getting sick of. Everytime we have a family event my mother in law asks me to bring my 360 and Rock Band and she now plans on buying it for her sons new PS3. The whole family plays with it fairly consecutivly thus it is bringing them in to gaming. The Wii again in comparison is not doing this, its something they get amusement out of not something they are infatuated with. If this wasnt true the damn thing wouldnt only get played with for 2 or 3 days whenever a new Wii title or somethign like M&S at olympics comes out.[/QUOTE]
I see your point. There are better ways to attract people to gaming and get them to stay probably than the casual stuff. And certainly better ways to bring them in and get them to try core games--FPS etc.
But honestly, I just don't care. I have plenty of games to play. And the games and genre's I like tend to sell like crazy so I'm going to be set going forward regardless of how much the gaming market expands or how it expands.
[quote name='MSI Magus']Sounds to me like your just scared of the future.
[/QUOTE]
He definitely is. I get his dislike of certain genres, and that sucks for him as the genre's he likes are getting sparse.
I don't get the hatred of HD. I get the current point that high development costs make it hard for indy developers to make the kinds of games he wants to play as they don't sell enough to recoup costs. But in the future as HD is the standard development costs will drop and it will no longer be an issue.
Then he could have his genre's with great HD graphics. But I think he's just totally stuck in his ways and just wants blocky sprite based graphics. In which case he just needs to go retro gaming only.
[quote name='Sarang01']I'd rather have the console length and level product that PSP brings to the table. Let us not also forget it allows for portable anthologies that wouldn't be seen on the DS with it's comparatively low storage space.
The DS seems to have a lot of gimmicky crap imo frankly. I don't see why everyone loves it so much gamewise.
I really like how EnixSquare has already tried to butcher peoples memory by putting FF4 in shitty, blocky 3D and looks to do the same with FF6 so the DS can handle it. Too bad EnixSquare won't leave FF6 to the PS3 or higher for a 3D itineration with 1080p native textures and Lossless audio accordingly. No they have to make Terra and others look like complete SHIT!
edit: MSI digital distribution only screws us as gamers. Little to no sales, at least on XBLA. Look at how little sales happen. It's so low cost and yet they continue to try screwing us pricewise.[/QUOTE]
Yeah it's just a matter of what you want. The main thing for me is I don't need a portable system. I travel a lot, but it's usually for work and I just spend my flight working on the laptop and/or reading stuff. So a portable would only get played at home mostly, and there I'd rather just play the 360.
The exception is if a portable is the only way to play a type of game that interests me. 2D platformers are pretty much dead on the consoles, and the DS had a good rush of them from 2005 through 2006 or so.
Though I'd agree that since then the game line up has stunk for me. Lots of well reviewed games but they're in genre's like JRPG, SRPG, point and click adventure etc. which I don't care for.
Similary the PSP has a bunch of great games, but I'm not going to play something like God of War or any FPS games on a portable when I could just fire up a console on the 50" TV. But I definitely see the appeal for people who actually want a portable system for the portability aspect. I don't need that and doubt I'll ever buy another portable system in the future.
[quote name='Ryuukishi']That's not an answer. The word "fad" implies that the success is temporary, that at some point there will be a backlash and the Wii's popularity will sharply and permanently decline. That's what you believe will happen, correct? The question is, what would have to happen to make you decide that you were incorrect, and that the Wii's popularity is solid and enduring? If your answer is "outsells every other console until 2015, plus Halo 4 and Final Fantasy 14 announced as Wii exclusives," that's fine, I'm just curious what it is.[/QUOTE]
For me it would be that next generation not only does the Wii 2 (or whatever it's called) sell well. But that sales of of games like Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Carnival games etc. remain at the current levels or higher.
That would show that there was a permanent market for these casual games, and that people who bought Wii's didn't tire of them and throw them in the closet and that new people were still jumping on board.
I have no idea what will happen. It's a new approach to gaming aimed at a new market, only time will tell.
The word "fad" implies that the success is temporary, that at some point there will be a backlash and the Wii's popularity will sharply and permanently decline. That's what you believe will happen, correct? The question is, what would have to happen to make you decide that you were incorrect, and that the Wii's popularity is solid and enduring? If your answer is "outsells every other console until 2015, plus Halo 4 and Final Fantasy 14 announced as Wii exclusives," that's fine, I'm just curious what it is.[/QUOTE]For me it would be that next generation not only does the Wii 2 (or whatever it's called) sell well. But that sales of of games like Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Carnival games etc. remain at the current levels or higher.
That would show that there was a permanent market for these casual games, and that people who bought Wii's didn't tire of them and throw them in the closet and that new people were still jumping on board.
I have no idea what will happen. It's a new approach to gaming aimed at a new market, only time will tell.
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Simple matter of opinion. If you can invalidate the biggest franchises in Japan because you dont like them, I can claim that I dont like the AAA titles on the 360/PS3.
First of all, the ONLY reason most of them are on the HD systems is because they were pledged before all the systems launched or very early on. They had to guess and they guessed wrong. First RE5 trailer/teaser - July 2005. Same with DMC4 and FF13. The Wii will never have the Western developers (PC), so thats a lost cause (Epic, Bethsoft).
Marketshare and developer support exist as a feedback loop. Of course I already think that the Wii has the best games by a wide margin, even with a lineup that pales in comparison to previous generations. Its only going to get better. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Like clockwork.[/QUOTE]
Ermmmm wrong. I said I thought it was overated but still a big score for the Wii and a good series. I didnt invalidate it again your just so desperate to validate your opinion that you misread my post(AGAIN!).
*rolls his eyes* Keep holding on to that hope that these games were in the making for the last 10 years kid. You think Gears 2 was in development in 2005? What about Dead Rising 2? How about Culdcept its a small title that hit the 360 and easily could have went to Wii instead. Face it your opinions are nothing more then wishes that are compltly illogical. We are seeing these games hit the newer systems because they are superior systems, because developers want to make block busters, because companies dont want to compete with Nintendo, and because the attach rate isnt quite as high.
Even if you were right then it is silly because the developers could have shifted development if they wanted to. Nintendo did it with their games to the Wii others could have as well. We also could have seen PS2 titles like Persona go over and they havnt.
I am seriously starting to take you as a bigger joker then the Wii itself.
First of all, the ONLY reason most of them are on the HD systems is because they were pledged before all the systems launched or very early on. They had to guess and they guessed wrong. First RE5 trailer/teaser - July 2005. Same with DMC4 and FF13. The Wii will never have the Western developers (PC), so thats a lost cause (Epic, Bethsoft).
Marketshare and developer support exist as a feedback loop. Of course I already think that the Wii has the best games by a wide margin, even with a lineup that pales in comparison to previous generations. Its only going to get better. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Like clockwork.[/QUOTE]
Ermmmm wrong. I said I thought it was overated but still a big score for the Wii and a good series. I didnt invalidate it again your just so desperate to validate your opinion that you misread my post(AGAIN!).
*rolls his eyes* Keep holding on to that hope that these games were in the making for the last 10 years kid. You think Gears 2 was in development in 2005? What about Dead Rising 2? How about Culdcept its a small title that hit the 360 and easily could have went to Wii instead. Face it your opinions are nothing more then wishes that are compltly illogical. We are seeing these games hit the newer systems because they are superior systems, because developers want to make block busters, because companies dont want to compete with Nintendo, and because the attach rate isnt quite as high.
Even if you were right then it is silly because the developers could have shifted development if they wanted to. Nintendo did it with their games to the Wii others could have as well. We also could have seen PS2 titles like Persona go over and they havnt.
I am seriously starting to take you as a bigger joker then the Wii itself.
Dr Mario Kart
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Did I 
ing mention Gears or Dead Rising 2?
Fact: RE5 has been in development since before July 2005.
Fact: FF13 has been in development since before the PS3 launched.
I'm not disputing the dev cycle of the shooter of the month.
To be fair, I would prefer that all development stay on the PS2. It beats the Wii as far as low power, therefore I want it. I wouldnt mind at all if the Wii/PS3 never existed and it was just PS2.
ing mention Gears or Dead Rising 2?Fact: RE5 has been in development since before July 2005.
Fact: FF13 has been in development since before the PS3 launched.
I'm not disputing the dev cycle of the shooter of the month.
To be fair, I would prefer that all development stay on the PS2. It beats the Wii as far as low power, therefore I want it. I wouldnt mind at all if the Wii/PS3 never existed and it was just PS2.
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Simple matter of opinion. If you can invalidate the biggest franchises in Japan because you dont like them, I can claim that I dont like the AAA titles on the 360/PS3.
First of all, the ONLY reason most of them are on the HD systems is because they were pledged before all the systems launched or very early on. They had to guess and they guessed wrong. First RE5 trailer/teaser - July 2005. Same with DMC4 and FF13. The Wii will never have the Western developers (PC), so thats a lost cause (Epic, Bethsoft).
[/QUOTE]
You're first point just gets back to what I say over and over. People just need to play what they like and quit bitching about what they don't. I play FPS and Western RPGs and that's about it these days. Japanese games largely aren't my cup of tea these days. Neither style of gaming is better or worse, it's just what you personally enjoy.
For the second, I do think the pledges are a part of it. But I don't think you can ignore that some developers want to make blockbuster games that push HD graphic's to the edge and have large online aspects and that's going to lead them away from the Wii.
Again my example is the Call of Duty series. Infininity Ward started the franchise and made CoD2 and CoD4 this gen. Those games are only on the HD systems. CoD3 and CoD World at War word just made off those engines by Treyarch as Activision wants to shit out a game in the franchise every year and Infinity Ward refused a 1 year turn around. Treyarch's medicore games came to the Wii (and PS2) as those are just put out to make money, not to be the best they can be.
I'm sure the same is true with a lot of games. Including RE5. The RE series has always had outstanding graphics for the time, and with the online co-op the Wii's less of a fit with it's less robust online system and community.
Guess my point is just like smaller budget games make more sense on the Wii, some games are just better for the HD consoles due to what the developers want to do.
Market share plays a roll, but for major francises that can sell millions across the PS3 and 360 for $10 more than they would on the Wii, there's not much temptation to make the game for the Wii as an exclusive or a port (and put in the effort dumbing down the graphics and redesigning the controls) for games where the developers care about cutting edge graphics and/or online play.
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']
To be fair, I would prefer that all development stay on the PS2. It beats the Wii as far as low power, therefore I want it. I wouldnt mind at all if the Wii/PS3 never existed and it was just PS2.[/QUOTE]
And again, you really just need to stick with the PS2 and earlier consoles and become a 100% retro gamer. It would save you a lot of grief, and save a lot of annoyance for members of a forum that exists to discuss current gaming.
You've lost this battle, as it's impossible to stop progress. You like waggle but hate HD. You can be 100% sure that Nintendo's next console will have waggle and HD. You hate digital distribution. But Nintendo has always tried to push licensing fees and proprietary formats (until the Wii) so I'd suspect they'd be the first to make a major move toward digital distribution.
You can't live in the past and expect not to get left behind.
First of all, the ONLY reason most of them are on the HD systems is because they were pledged before all the systems launched or very early on. They had to guess and they guessed wrong. First RE5 trailer/teaser - July 2005. Same with DMC4 and FF13. The Wii will never have the Western developers (PC), so thats a lost cause (Epic, Bethsoft).
[/QUOTE]
You're first point just gets back to what I say over and over. People just need to play what they like and quit bitching about what they don't. I play FPS and Western RPGs and that's about it these days. Japanese games largely aren't my cup of tea these days. Neither style of gaming is better or worse, it's just what you personally enjoy.
For the second, I do think the pledges are a part of it. But I don't think you can ignore that some developers want to make blockbuster games that push HD graphic's to the edge and have large online aspects and that's going to lead them away from the Wii.
Again my example is the Call of Duty series. Infininity Ward started the franchise and made CoD2 and CoD4 this gen. Those games are only on the HD systems. CoD3 and CoD World at War word just made off those engines by Treyarch as Activision wants to shit out a game in the franchise every year and Infinity Ward refused a 1 year turn around. Treyarch's medicore games came to the Wii (and PS2) as those are just put out to make money, not to be the best they can be.
I'm sure the same is true with a lot of games. Including RE5. The RE series has always had outstanding graphics for the time, and with the online co-op the Wii's less of a fit with it's less robust online system and community.
Guess my point is just like smaller budget games make more sense on the Wii, some games are just better for the HD consoles due to what the developers want to do.
Market share plays a roll, but for major francises that can sell millions across the PS3 and 360 for $10 more than they would on the Wii, there's not much temptation to make the game for the Wii as an exclusive or a port (and put in the effort dumbing down the graphics and redesigning the controls) for games where the developers care about cutting edge graphics and/or online play.
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']
To be fair, I would prefer that all development stay on the PS2. It beats the Wii as far as low power, therefore I want it. I wouldnt mind at all if the Wii/PS3 never existed and it was just PS2.[/QUOTE]
And again, you really just need to stick with the PS2 and earlier consoles and become a 100% retro gamer. It would save you a lot of grief, and save a lot of annoyance for members of a forum that exists to discuss current gaming.
You've lost this battle, as it's impossible to stop progress. You like waggle but hate HD. You can be 100% sure that Nintendo's next console will have waggle and HD. You hate digital distribution. But Nintendo has always tried to push licensing fees and proprietary formats (until the Wii) so I'd suspect they'd be the first to make a major move toward digital distribution.
You can't live in the past and expect not to get left behind.
[quote name='Ryuukishi']That's not an answer. The word "fad" implies that the success is temporary, that at some point there will be a backlash and the Wii's popularity will sharply and permanently decline. That's what you believe will happen, correct? The question is, what would have to happen to make you decide that you were incorrect, and that the Wii's popularity is solid and enduring? If your answer is "outsells every other console until 2015, plus Halo 4 and Final Fantasy 14 announced as Wii exclusives," that's fine, I'm just curious what it is.[/QUOTE]
Sigh fads are smashing success but they are success that fade. Nintendo has been a succese with sales but a failure with games thats my point. And to me the fad will probably end in the next few years in the transition to the next console less they do something absolutely brilliant. Just because you didnt like my answer doesnt mean it isnt one(and a right one at that). To not be a fad that next console will also have to be a smashing success and it must be in the same vein as the Wii.
Personally all I care about is the games again. Even if the thing remained a fad I wouldnt care if good games like Zack and Wiki and Mario became more abundant. Even DQ something I called overated is something ill want to give a shot. So if it gets more of it it helps.
Fact, at any point either game could have been switched over to a Wii title. Fact FFXIV could have already been announced for Wii. Fact other titles from Square that have hit the 360 could have been done on the Wii. Fact developers continue to not put the titles on the Wii. Fact saying crap like shooter of the month again just shows what a pathetic biased scared of the future kind of person you are. Again I give the Wiis good games credit but you cant do the same for the other systems. I accept the Wiis strengths, but you cant do the same for the other systems. And I accept the facts on things like development cycles and what is getting ready to release, but again you cant do the same.
The word "fad" implies that the success is temporary, that at some point there will be a backlash and the Wii's popularity will sharply and permanently decline. That's what you believe will happen, correct? The question is, what would have to happen to make you decide that you were incorrect, and that the Wii's popularity is solid and enduring? If your answer is "outsells every other console until 2015, plus Halo 4 and Final Fantasy 14 announced as Wii exclusives," that's fine, I'm just curious what it is.[/QUOTE]Sigh fads are smashing success but they are success that fade. Nintendo has been a succese with sales but a failure with games thats my point. And to me the fad will probably end in the next few years in the transition to the next console less they do something absolutely brilliant. Just because you didnt like my answer doesnt mean it isnt one(and a right one at that). To not be a fad that next console will also have to be a smashing success and it must be in the same vein as the Wii.
Personally all I care about is the games again. Even if the thing remained a fad I wouldnt care if good games like Zack and Wiki and Mario became more abundant. Even DQ something I called overated is something ill want to give a shot. So if it gets more of it it helps.
Fact, at any point either game could have been switched over to a Wii title. Fact FFXIV could have already been announced for Wii. Fact other titles from Square that have hit the 360 could have been done on the Wii. Fact developers continue to not put the titles on the Wii. Fact saying crap like shooter of the month again just shows what a pathetic biased scared of the future kind of person you are. Again I give the Wiis good games credit but you cant do the same for the other systems. I accept the Wiis strengths, but you cant do the same for the other systems. And I accept the facts on things like development cycles and what is getting ready to release, but again you cant do the same.
Dr Mario Kart
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Any point? Thats ridiculous. I'm out.
Will bump when SMT goes to Wii.
Will bump when SMT goes to Wii.
[quote name='dmaul1114']You're first point just gets back to what I say over and over. People just need to play what they like and quit bitching about what they don't. I play FPS and Western RPGs and that's about it these days. Japanese games largely aren't my cup of tea these days. Neither style of gaming is better or worse, it's just what you personally enjoy.
For the second, I do think the pledges are a part of it. But I don't think you can ignore that some developers want to make blockbuster games that push HD graphic's to the edge and have large online aspects and that's going to lead them away from the Wii.
Again my example is the Call of Duty series. Infininity Ward started the franchise and made CoD2 and CoD4 this gen. Those games are only on the HD systems. CoD3 and CoD World at War word just made off those engines by Treyarch as Activision wants to shit out a game in the franchise every year and Infinity Ward refused a 1 year turn around. Treyarch's medicore games came to the Wii (and PS2) as those are just put out to make money, not to be the best they can be.
I'm sure the same is true with a lot of games. Including RE5. The RE series has always had outstanding graphics for the time, and with the online co-op the Wii's less of a fit with it's less robust online system and community.
Guess my point is just like smaller budget games make more sense on the Wii, some games are just better for the HD consoles due to what the developers want to do.
Market share plays a roll, but for major francises that can sell millions across the PS3 and 360 for $10 more than they would on the Wii, there's not much temptation to make the game for the Wii as an exclusive or a port (and put in the effort dumbing down the graphics and redesigning the controls) for games where the developers care about cutting edge graphics and/or online play.
And again, you really just need to stick with the PS2 and earlier consoles and become a 100% retro gamer. It would save you a lot of grief, and save a lot of annoyance for members of a forum that exists to discuss current gaming.
You've lost this battle, as it's impossible to stop progress. You like waggle but hate HD. You can be 100% sure that Nintendo's next console will have waggle and HD. You hate digital distribution. But Nintendo has always tried to push licensing fees and proprietary formats (until the Wii) so I'd suspect they'd be the first to make a major move toward digital distribution.
You can't live in the past and expect not to get left behind.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. I play quirky games, platformers and RPGs for the most part. I cant stand a lot of FPSers but that doesnt stop me from seeing that stuff like Resistance or in the Wiis case Metroid are quality. My issue with the Wii isnt because it doesnt have my type of games...its because it just has a lack of quality period. As I have said over and over....a good game is a good game. Its sad people like sarang and Mario kart cant get in line with that kind of thought just because something isnt flashy or old school enough.
For the second, I do think the pledges are a part of it. But I don't think you can ignore that some developers want to make blockbuster games that push HD graphic's to the edge and have large online aspects and that's going to lead them away from the Wii.
Again my example is the Call of Duty series. Infininity Ward started the franchise and made CoD2 and CoD4 this gen. Those games are only on the HD systems. CoD3 and CoD World at War word just made off those engines by Treyarch as Activision wants to shit out a game in the franchise every year and Infinity Ward refused a 1 year turn around. Treyarch's medicore games came to the Wii (and PS2) as those are just put out to make money, not to be the best they can be.
I'm sure the same is true with a lot of games. Including RE5. The RE series has always had outstanding graphics for the time, and with the online co-op the Wii's less of a fit with it's less robust online system and community.
Guess my point is just like smaller budget games make more sense on the Wii, some games are just better for the HD consoles due to what the developers want to do.
Market share plays a roll, but for major francises that can sell millions across the PS3 and 360 for $10 more than they would on the Wii, there's not much temptation to make the game for the Wii as an exclusive or a port (and put in the effort dumbing down the graphics and redesigning the controls) for games where the developers care about cutting edge graphics and/or online play.
And again, you really just need to stick with the PS2 and earlier consoles and become a 100% retro gamer. It would save you a lot of grief, and save a lot of annoyance for members of a forum that exists to discuss current gaming.
You've lost this battle, as it's impossible to stop progress. You like waggle but hate HD. You can be 100% sure that Nintendo's next console will have waggle and HD. You hate digital distribution. But Nintendo has always tried to push licensing fees and proprietary formats (until the Wii) so I'd suspect they'd be the first to make a major move toward digital distribution.
You can't live in the past and expect not to get left behind.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. I play quirky games, platformers and RPGs for the most part. I cant stand a lot of FPSers but that doesnt stop me from seeing that stuff like Resistance or in the Wiis case Metroid are quality. My issue with the Wii isnt because it doesnt have my type of games...its because it just has a lack of quality period. As I have said over and over....a good game is a good game. Its sad people like sarang and Mario kart cant get in line with that kind of thought just because something isnt flashy or old school enough.
Dr Mario Kart
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how bout a ban bet regarding SMT on the Wii?
[quote name='MSI Magus']Sigh fads are smashing success but they are success that fade. Nintendo has been a succese with sales but a failure with games thats my point. And to me the fad will probably end in the next few years in the transition to the next console less they do something absolutely brilliant.[/quote]
Seriously man, it doesn't have to be a "gotcha" question unless you make it one.
It is literally impossible for you to be incorrect that the Wii is a fad, no matter what happens in the future? There is no conceivable scenario which would cause you to reconsider your view?
I just thought an honest answer to the question would be interesting. Not much point (or fun) in debating someone whose mind is so made up that they won't even entertain the theoretical possibility that they could be wrong, is there?
Seriously man, it doesn't have to be a "gotcha" question unless you make it one.
It is literally impossible for you to be incorrect that the Wii is a fad, no matter what happens in the future? There is no conceivable scenario which would cause you to reconsider your view?
I just thought an honest answer to the question would be interesting. Not much point (or fun) in debating someone whose mind is so made up that they won't even entertain the theoretical possibility that they could be wrong, is there?
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']how bout a ban bet regarding SMT on the Wii?[/QUOTE]
Not a fair bet since your post means it already just happened. Man I am bad about saying I am leaving a topic then posting again after a day or 2.....but you couldn't even wait 5 minutes.
Not a fair bet since your post means it already just happened. Man I am bad about saying I am leaving a topic then posting again after a day or 2.....but you couldn't even wait 5 minutes.
willardhaven
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[quote name='MSI Magus']Sigh fads are smashing success but they are success that fade. Nintendo has been a succese with sales but a failure with games thats my point. And to me the fad will probably end in the next few years in the transition to the next console less they do something absolutely brilliant. Just because you didnt like my answer doesnt mean it isnt one(and a right one at that). To not be a fad that next console will also have to be a smashing success and it must be in the same vein as the Wii.
Personally all I care about is the games again. Even if the thing remained a fad I wouldnt care if good games like Zack and Wiki and Mario became more abundant. Even DQ something I called overated is something ill want to give a shot. So if it gets more of it it helps.
Fact, at any point either game could have been switched over to a Wii title. Fact FFXIV could have already been announced for Wii. Fact other titles from Square that have hit the 360 could have been done on the Wii. Fact developers continue to not put the titles on the Wii. Fact saying crap like shooter of the month again just shows what a pathetic biased scared of the future kind of person you are. Again I give the Wiis good games credit but you cant do the same for the other systems. I accept the Wiis strengths, but you cant do the same for the other systems. And I accept the facts on things like development cycles and what is getting ready to release, but again you cant do the same.[/quote]
Personally all I care about is the games again. Even if the thing remained a fad I wouldnt care if good games like Zack and Wiki and Mario became more abundant. Even DQ something I called overated is something ill want to give a shot. So if it gets more of it it helps.
Fact, at any point either game could have been switched over to a Wii title. Fact FFXIV could have already been announced for Wii. Fact other titles from Square that have hit the 360 could have been done on the Wii. Fact developers continue to not put the titles on the Wii. Fact saying crap like shooter of the month again just shows what a pathetic biased scared of the future kind of person you are. Again I give the Wiis good games credit but you cant do the same for the other systems. I accept the Wiis strengths, but you cant do the same for the other systems. And I accept the facts on things like development cycles and what is getting ready to release, but again you cant do the same.[/quote]
Dr Mario Kart
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What about some qualifier that the Wii is fad. Surely we can come to terms on a ban bet on something, since we disagree on EVERYTHING.
[quote name='Ryuukishi']Seriously man, it doesn't have to be a "gotcha" question unless you make it one.
It is literally impossible for you to be incorrect that the Wii is a fad, no matter what happens in the future? There is no conceivable scenario which would case you to reconsider your view?
I just thought an honest answer to the question would be interesting. Not much point (or fun) in debating someone whose mind is so made up that they won't even entertain the theoretical possibility that they could be wrong, is there?[/QUOTE]
Man you Nintendo fans really cant read huh? I gave you a scenario. I clearly stated if the next Nintendo system is similar to the Wii and just as successful it would be more then a fad. If the game rate continues it would still be a junk system but not a fad.
Hopefully this will be the last time I have to say this part - I really could give 2 shits less if its a fad or not all I care about is getting quality games. For all I care Nintendo could sell the Wii to Britany Spears and she remodels it to spray some stinky fadish perfume and play horrid music at boot up. If good games were on the system I would love it.
It is literally impossible for you to be incorrect that the Wii is a fad, no matter what happens in the future? There is no conceivable scenario which would case you to reconsider your view?
I just thought an honest answer to the question would be interesting. Not much point (or fun) in debating someone whose mind is so made up that they won't even entertain the theoretical possibility that they could be wrong, is there?[/QUOTE]
Man you Nintendo fans really cant read huh? I gave you a scenario. I clearly stated if the next Nintendo system is similar to the Wii and just as successful it would be more then a fad. If the game rate continues it would still be a junk system but not a fad.
Hopefully this will be the last time I have to say this part - I really could give 2 shits less if its a fad or not all I care about is getting quality games. For all I care Nintendo could sell the Wii to Britany Spears and she remodels it to spray some stinky fadish perfume and play horrid music at boot up. If good games were on the system I would love it.
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']how bout a ban bet regarding SMT on the Wii?[/QUOTE]
That's a JRPG right?
That would be a silly one for a bet. If the Wii does get more third party support it will probably be along the lines of the DS--lots of JRPGs, SRPGs, point and click adventure games etc. So I could see a semi-major RPG franchise coming over--just like DQIX going to the DS. So things definitely could get better for people who like those genres.
What I don't see is big budget games in genre's like FPS, western RPG, racing games etc. being developed exclusively for the Wii, and the AAA ones probably won't get ports. Again those are genre's that like to push graphics, have major online components etc. and that just doesn't fit the Wii hardware or audience.
That's a JRPG right?
That would be a silly one for a bet. If the Wii does get more third party support it will probably be along the lines of the DS--lots of JRPGs, SRPGs, point and click adventure games etc. So I could see a semi-major RPG franchise coming over--just like DQIX going to the DS. So things definitely could get better for people who like those genres.
What I don't see is big budget games in genre's like FPS, western RPG, racing games etc. being developed exclusively for the Wii, and the AAA ones probably won't get ports. Again those are genre's that like to push graphics, have major online components etc. and that just doesn't fit the Wii hardware or audience.
FloodsAreUponUS
Banned
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']how bout a ban bet regarding SMT on the Wii?[/quote]
Because over like 3 years ago they confirmed they were starting SMT4 Dev on the PS3.
Because over like 3 years ago they confirmed they were starting SMT4 Dev on the PS3.
Dr Mario Kart
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[quote name='FloodsAreUponUS']Because over like 3 years ago they confirmed they were starting SMT4 Dev on the PS3. [/quote]
You mean from Shane "mangod" Bettenhausen?
Easy bet then, right?
[/quote]You mean from Shane "mangod" Bettenhausen?
Easy bet then, right?
pochaccoheaven
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[quote name='dmaul1114']For me it would be that next generation not only does the Wii 2 (or whatever it's called) sell well. But that sales of of games like Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Carnival games etc. remain at the current levels or higher.
That would show that there was a permanent market for these casual games, and that people who bought Wii's didn't tire of them and throw them in the closet and that new people were still jumping on board.
I have no idea what will happen. It's a new approach to gaming aimed at a new market, only time will tell.[/quote]
so to you the current wii will be a fad until the next wii is released which then the next gen wii is a fad again until the third wii comes out and then that third wii will be a fad again until the fourth wii comes out again which again that will be a fad and then the fifth and on and on because of all the crazy ideas that nintendo decides to include. so nintendo made a super fad device that will last for eternity. praise the hardcore
.
here is the definition of a fad,
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fad
note the word brief from the definition. folks the wii has been out for about two years [and 1 month] now and we even have the great ds, which is more then evident to prove nintendo's direction [look at those sales of the hardware month after month]. so there are clearly two evidence, one on the wii and one for the ds, that the ds and wii is not a fad. not only do we see over and over again of what the hardcore keeps denying but right now the idea that the wii is a fad is over. so take note of the hard message below,
message 1,
nintendo has not failed in software but rather the third party developers lack the insight to see what nintendo was doing [they were that dumb]. again, if you look at the ds, there are success and failures for everyone, even nintendo. ea focused a lot on the hardcore and they end up losing 70 million dollars. maybe if they had put more effort and development into making a game for the wii then they may have actually made something. go figure the developers still think like the hardcore and hope the wii will fade by this christmas. but suprise to them that the week of thanksgiving, nintendo sold 800,000 wiis. i'll translate what that means for the people, that is 800,000 potential buyers which none of the third parties bothered with, so that is 800,000 buyers straight out the door without a thought. lol. who's the joke of the town developers.
message 2,
let me introduce you to my little friend, the dsi. not only did nintendo introduced the dsi recently, but sales went through the roof. look at those japanese dsi sales. so if we consider what nintendo did with the dsi to what they will do with the wii [and folks i don't literally mean to put a camera on the wii remote] then we will see that the wii will be just as successful as the dsi. so the wii will be successful the second time around.
message 3,
so there you go, three proofs and reasons that the hardcore can't deny and make an arguemen against, which of course they still will deny even with all the evidence in front of them. praise the hardcore!
That would show that there was a permanent market for these casual games, and that people who bought Wii's didn't tire of them and throw them in the closet and that new people were still jumping on board.
I have no idea what will happen. It's a new approach to gaming aimed at a new market, only time will tell.[/quote]
so to you the current wii will be a fad until the next wii is released which then the next gen wii is a fad again until the third wii comes out and then that third wii will be a fad again until the fourth wii comes out again which again that will be a fad and then the fifth and on and on because of all the crazy ideas that nintendo decides to include. so nintendo made a super fad device that will last for eternity. praise the hardcore
.here is the definition of a fad,
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fad
note the word brief from the definition. folks the wii has been out for about two years [and 1 month] now and we even have the great ds, which is more then evident to prove nintendo's direction [look at those sales of the hardware month after month]. so there are clearly two evidence, one on the wii and one for the ds, that the ds and wii is not a fad. not only do we see over and over again of what the hardcore keeps denying but right now the idea that the wii is a fad is over. so take note of the hard message below,
message 1,
The Wii is not a fad!
nintendo has not failed in software but rather the third party developers lack the insight to see what nintendo was doing [they were that dumb]. again, if you look at the ds, there are success and failures for everyone, even nintendo. ea focused a lot on the hardcore and they end up losing 70 million dollars. maybe if they had put more effort and development into making a game for the wii then they may have actually made something. go figure the developers still think like the hardcore and hope the wii will fade by this christmas. but suprise to them that the week of thanksgiving, nintendo sold 800,000 wiis. i'll translate what that means for the people, that is 800,000 potential buyers which none of the third parties bothered with, so that is 800,000 buyers straight out the door without a thought. lol. who's the joke of the town developers.
message 2,
The wii software is a success, its a matter of the developers!
let me introduce you to my little friend, the dsi. not only did nintendo introduced the dsi recently, but sales went through the roof. look at those japanese dsi sales. so if we consider what nintendo did with the dsi to what they will do with the wii [and folks i don't literally mean to put a camera on the wii remote] then we will see that the wii will be just as successful as the dsi. so the wii will be successful the second time around.
message 3,
The wii will be expandable beyond at its current state!
so there you go, three proofs and reasons that the hardcore can't deny and make an arguemen against, which of course they still will deny even with all the evidence in front of them. praise the hardcore
!
corrosivefrost
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[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']The label of hardcore gamer as well as just gamer need to go away, and the transition will be painful.
Gaming needs to move into the group that all other media already inhabits, where people dont describe themselves as book readers, movie watchers or music listeners in the same way as people do with games.[/quote]
You're right! There's no distinction at all between fans of books or music. I mean, the emo scene and the nu-metal scene have merged. They're hanging out with the people who love country music and hip-hop too!
And I'm sure the casual book readers are in the same group as the people who love cheesy romance novels or fantasy/sci-fi...
Let's see how the special interest groups like it when everything is dumbed down, simplified, or generalized to fit a singular group instead of the niches and special interests.
Gaming needs to move into the group that all other media already inhabits, where people dont describe themselves as book readers, movie watchers or music listeners in the same way as people do with games.[/quote]
You're right! There's no distinction at all between fans of books or music. I mean, the emo scene and the nu-metal scene have merged. They're hanging out with the people who love country music and hip-hop too!
And I'm sure the casual book readers are in the same group as the people who love cheesy romance novels or fantasy/sci-fi...
Let's see how the special interest groups like it when everything is dumbed down, simplified, or generalized to fit a singular group instead of the niches and special interests.
Renaissance 2K
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[quote name='MSI Magus']Yes that is true. Then the following year/year and a half it started to get flooded with games or atleast we knew about great titles taht were on the way. The Wii again has been out 2 years and we have not only not seen said great games.....but Nintendo hasnt even announced them nor have third parties. And again you guys made the same argument with the 360 but guess what....again we had seen or knew that Gears, Halo 3, Dead Rising, Mass Effect, Katamari and many many others were out or on the way. You guys keep trying to say just you wait and see it takes every system a long time to hit its stride yet the PS3 came out at the same time as the Wii and guess what....we have seen 2 Resistance games, Uncharted a Ratchet game + Xpack and know a lot of others like that big 108 man game, God of War etc have been shown. Even the PS3 is outpacing Nintendo which is absolutely pathetic.[/quote]
Gears of War, Halo 3, Dead Rising, Mass Effect, Beautiful Katamari... one of these things is not like the others. :lol:
The difference between the Wii and the DS is that it took much longer for publishers - not developers - to take the system seriously, and it's understandable. I, myself, thought Nintendo was insane when they showed the controller for the first time. And announced the name. And showed the technical specs. I had no intention of getting a Wii at all - Nintendo or not - until someone got me it for my birthday, and I quickly realized what all the fuss is about.
Times have changed today. Big developers - EA, Ubisoft, Square-Enix, and others - have pledged serious support for the Wii. EA produces a version of their EA Sports line specifically for the Wii, and while they aren't sim titles, they still carry their own for what they are. Plus, the EA Casual line shows that EA knows how to target games to specific consoles and markets instead of just releasing terrible ports of HD games. (Hello, Craptivision.)
Ubisoft shares some sort of strange fascination with the Wii that I don't quite understand, but they're French, and I gave up trying to understand the French a few years ago.
Square-Enix announced today that Dragon Warrior X - not some half-ass spin-off, but the next official edition of Japan's biggest franchise - is going to be a Wii exclusive. Square-Enix takes both consoles extremely seriously, and this is a company that at one point was swearing they'd never do business with Nintendo again. Square-Enix is also, notably, not a casual game company. They've had brief flirtations with such games, but if you give a grandma or a six-year-old a copy of Dragon Warrior, don't come running to me when they end up with tears in their eyes.
And do you know what else is funny? Square-Enix didn't release a single game for the Wii during its first year. Now, they're practically in bed together.
[quote name='MSI Magus']Ummmmm keep holding on to that hope. If this is the case then why is it that last gen we knew about Mario Galaxy when it was still a GC game 2 years a head of time? WHy is it we knew about Zelda years ahead of time? Why is it we have known about FFXIII for years now? Or the new Halo Wars game or God of War. Its because developers show their stuff way ahead of time. Will Nintendo have a suprise title or 2? Yes because if they dont they wont have ANYTHING but Punch out at this point next year(though with how much they sucked last year I wouldnt be suprised).[/quote]
Nintendo (via Miyamoto and Fils-Aime) has told us about new Pikmin titles, new Mario titles, new Zelda titles, the new Punch-Out!!, and others. This is on top of the rumors that people continue to propagate; Kid Icarus is the big one. Honestly, how many games do you expect a developer to be working on simultaneously? They're juggling their AAA-titles as well as their casual titles (Wii Sports Resort, etc.).
Again, why is everybody holding Nintendo to higher standards than the other content providers? I can name two games that Sony has in the pipeline (God of War 3 and Infamous), and one and a half that Microsoft is working on (Halo Wars and Halo Recon).
[quote name='MSI Magus']I am sorry if it seems mean but go hug your wii and as you cry let this song loop in the background.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry if it seems lame, but you've got to be pretty desperate to prove a point if you're breaking out Scrubs videos.
Gears of War, Halo 3, Dead Rising, Mass Effect, Beautiful Katamari... one of these things is not like the others. :lol:
The difference between the Wii and the DS is that it took much longer for publishers - not developers - to take the system seriously, and it's understandable. I, myself, thought Nintendo was insane when they showed the controller for the first time. And announced the name. And showed the technical specs. I had no intention of getting a Wii at all - Nintendo or not - until someone got me it for my birthday, and I quickly realized what all the fuss is about.
Times have changed today. Big developers - EA, Ubisoft, Square-Enix, and others - have pledged serious support for the Wii. EA produces a version of their EA Sports line specifically for the Wii, and while they aren't sim titles, they still carry their own for what they are. Plus, the EA Casual line shows that EA knows how to target games to specific consoles and markets instead of just releasing terrible ports of HD games. (Hello, Craptivision.)
Ubisoft shares some sort of strange fascination with the Wii that I don't quite understand, but they're French, and I gave up trying to understand the French a few years ago.
Square-Enix announced today that Dragon Warrior X - not some half-ass spin-off, but the next official edition of Japan's biggest franchise - is going to be a Wii exclusive. Square-Enix takes both consoles extremely seriously, and this is a company that at one point was swearing they'd never do business with Nintendo again. Square-Enix is also, notably, not a casual game company. They've had brief flirtations with such games, but if you give a grandma or a six-year-old a copy of Dragon Warrior, don't come running to me when they end up with tears in their eyes.
And do you know what else is funny? Square-Enix didn't release a single game for the Wii during its first year. Now, they're practically in bed together.
[quote name='MSI Magus']Ummmmm keep holding on to that hope. If this is the case then why is it that last gen we knew about Mario Galaxy when it was still a GC game 2 years a head of time? WHy is it we knew about Zelda years ahead of time? Why is it we have known about FFXIII for years now? Or the new Halo Wars game or God of War. Its because developers show their stuff way ahead of time. Will Nintendo have a suprise title or 2? Yes because if they dont they wont have ANYTHING but Punch out at this point next year(though with how much they sucked last year I wouldnt be suprised).[/quote]
Nintendo (via Miyamoto and Fils-Aime) has told us about new Pikmin titles, new Mario titles, new Zelda titles, the new Punch-Out!!, and others. This is on top of the rumors that people continue to propagate; Kid Icarus is the big one. Honestly, how many games do you expect a developer to be working on simultaneously? They're juggling their AAA-titles as well as their casual titles (Wii Sports Resort, etc.).
Again, why is everybody holding Nintendo to higher standards than the other content providers? I can name two games that Sony has in the pipeline (God of War 3 and Infamous), and one and a half that Microsoft is working on (Halo Wars and Halo Recon).
[quote name='MSI Magus']I am sorry if it seems mean but go hug your wii and as you cry let this song loop in the background.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry if it seems lame, but you've got to be pretty desperate to prove a point if you're breaking out Scrubs videos.
Shin Megami Tensei... A hardcore RPG series from Atlus. Persona, Nocturne, and Digital Devil Saga are all considered part of the franchise.
[quote name='pochaccoheaven']so to you the current wii will be a fad until the next wii is released which then the next gen wii is a fad again until the third wii comes out and then that third wii will be a fad again until the fourth wii comes out again which again that will be a fad and then the fifth and on and on because of all the crazy ideas that nintendo decides to include. so nintendo made a super fad device that will last for eternity. praise the hardcore .
here is the definition of a fad,
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fad
note the word brief from the definition. folks the wii has been out for about two years [and 1 month] now and we even have the great ds, which is more then evident to prove nintendo's direction [look at those sales of the hardware month after month]. so there are clearly two evidence, one on the wii and one for the ds, that the ds and wii is not a fad. not only do we see over and over again of what the hardcore keeps denying but right now the idea that the wii is a fad is over. so take note of the hard message below,
message 1,
nintendo has not failed in software but rather the third party developers lack the insight to see what nintendo was doing [they were that dumb]. again, if you look at the ds, there are success and failures for everyone, even nintendo. ea focused a lot on the hardcore and they end up losing 70 million dollars. maybe if they had put more effort and development into making a game for the wii then they may have actually made something. go figure the developers still think like the hardcore and hope the wii will fade by this christmas. but suprise to them that the week of thanksgiving, nintendo sold 800,000 wiis. i'll translate what that means for the people, that is 800,000 potential buyers which none of the third parties bothered with, so that is 800,000 buyers straight out the door without a thought. lol. who's the joke of the town developers.
message 2,
let me introduce you to my little friend, the dsi. not only did nintendo introduced the dsi recently, but sales went through the roof. look at those japanese dsi sales. so if we consider what nintendo did with the dsi to what they will do with the wii [and folks i don't literally mean to put a camera on the wii remote] then we will see that the wii will be just as successful as the dsi. so the wii will be successful the second time around.
message 3,
so there you go, three proofs and reasons that the hardcore can't deny and make an arguemen against, which of course they still will deny even with all the evidence in front of them. praise the hardcore![/QUOTE]
What evidence did you present? The definition thing was good but I disagree with that since the life span of a console is a brief period of time meaning we are using fad in the right sense. Outside that all you did is rant about sales and make non sensicle statements. For instance you talk about EA but guess what most of EAs money comes from their sport franchises which are hardly games for the hardcore. Their focus only now is shifting back towards the hardcore. If anything you further proved that Nintendo is using fad stratagy right now. Hell the DSi thing is incredibly stupid all its doing is adding more fad ass gimicks that do nothing for game play.
The sad thing is that Nintendo fans last generation were the ones whining about how the PS2 had a DVD player and the Xbox a hard drive and how they wernt real game machines because of this and you were ranting about how sales didnt matter. This generation your doing the opposite, screaming look at our sales and look at the extra stuff tacked on, oooooo a camera we are moving the industry forward! Atleast with the HD and DVD player it did something for gaming.
Again if you want to prove something how about doing it like a real gamer. With games.......thats right you cant because as I have shown Nintendo has shifted its stratagy away from games. Blame third parties all you want but Nintendos own line up is weak and they are doing nothing to bring in third parties unlike MS who has offered cash for exclusives and offered help to the indies on XBLA.
.here is the definition of a fad,
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fad
note the word brief from the definition. folks the wii has been out for about two years [and 1 month] now and we even have the great ds, which is more then evident to prove nintendo's direction [look at those sales of the hardware month after month]. so there are clearly two evidence, one on the wii and one for the ds, that the ds and wii is not a fad. not only do we see over and over again of what the hardcore keeps denying but right now the idea that the wii is a fad is over. so take note of the hard message below,
message 1,
The Wii is not a fad!
nintendo has not failed in software but rather the third party developers lack the insight to see what nintendo was doing [they were that dumb]. again, if you look at the ds, there are success and failures for everyone, even nintendo. ea focused a lot on the hardcore and they end up losing 70 million dollars. maybe if they had put more effort and development into making a game for the wii then they may have actually made something. go figure the developers still think like the hardcore and hope the wii will fade by this christmas. but suprise to them that the week of thanksgiving, nintendo sold 800,000 wiis. i'll translate what that means for the people, that is 800,000 potential buyers which none of the third parties bothered with, so that is 800,000 buyers straight out the door without a thought. lol. who's the joke of the town developers.
message 2,
The wii software is a success, its a matter of the developers!
let me introduce you to my little friend, the dsi. not only did nintendo introduced the dsi recently, but sales went through the roof. look at those japanese dsi sales. so if we consider what nintendo did with the dsi to what they will do with the wii [and folks i don't literally mean to put a camera on the wii remote] then we will see that the wii will be just as successful as the dsi. so the wii will be successful the second time around.
message 3,
The wii will be expandable beyond at its current state!
so there you go, three proofs and reasons that the hardcore can't deny and make an arguemen against, which of course they still will deny even with all the evidence in front of them. praise the hardcore
![/QUOTE]What evidence did you present? The definition thing was good but I disagree with that since the life span of a console is a brief period of time meaning we are using fad in the right sense. Outside that all you did is rant about sales and make non sensicle statements. For instance you talk about EA but guess what most of EAs money comes from their sport franchises which are hardly games for the hardcore. Their focus only now is shifting back towards the hardcore. If anything you further proved that Nintendo is using fad stratagy right now. Hell the DSi thing is incredibly stupid all its doing is adding more fad ass gimicks that do nothing for game play.
The sad thing is that Nintendo fans last generation were the ones whining about how the PS2 had a DVD player and the Xbox a hard drive and how they wernt real game machines because of this and you were ranting about how sales didnt matter. This generation your doing the opposite, screaming look at our sales and look at the extra stuff tacked on, oooooo a camera we are moving the industry forward! Atleast with the HD and DVD player it did something for gaming.
Again if you want to prove something how about doing it like a real gamer. With games.......thats right you cant because as I have shown Nintendo has shifted its stratagy away from games. Blame third parties all you want but Nintendos own line up is weak and they are doing nothing to bring in third parties unlike MS who has offered cash for exclusives and offered help to the indies on XBLA.
LOL at the last two posts...
I still can't see the Wii as a fad in itself... how long till it isn't a fad? Wii 2??? seriously so why are the "hardcore" players worried.
I think the Wii getting FPS, racing games, and the major AAA titles because they already have a steadfast hold on the current gen.
Halo only going to be on Xbox
FFxx so far only going to PS3
What titles do the Hardcore want on the wii, because then I'd have to rebutte that does it 'need' to be there....
the wii is a different demigraphic. Infact I'd say that kids start on the wii will be more likely to grow up with the need for other consoles when their tastes for games grow.
Just as there isn't a big influx of M titles on the Wii, there isn't a huge influx of E titles.
Besides DDR and RB ... what other titles bring the family together from 3 to 93 ??? besides any title on the Wii....
Anyways... this thread is a fad... till everyone agrees with that... we'll get no where.
I still can't see the Wii as a fad in itself... how long till it isn't a fad? Wii 2??? seriously so why are the "hardcore" players worried.
I think the Wii getting FPS, racing games, and the major AAA titles because they already have a steadfast hold on the current gen.
Halo only going to be on Xbox
FFxx so far only going to PS3
What titles do the Hardcore want on the wii, because then I'd have to rebutte that does it 'need' to be there....
the wii is a different demigraphic. Infact I'd say that kids start on the wii will be more likely to grow up with the need for other consoles when their tastes for games grow.
Just as there isn't a big influx of M titles on the Wii, there isn't a huge influx of E titles.
Besides DDR and RB ... what other titles bring the family together from 3 to 93 ??? besides any title on the Wii....
Anyways... this thread is a fad... till everyone agrees with that... we'll get no where.
corrosivefrost
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[quote name='Ryuukishi']That's not an answer. The word "fad" implies that the success is temporary, that at some point there will be a backlash and the Wii's popularity will sharply and permanently decline.[/quote]
I can't even begin to think of how to word this right.
But I'm going to try...
I don't remember who, but someone pointed out that the Wii is just a $250 board game for most families. They buy it, they bring it out once or twice a year for holiday gathers and the like... sure the novelty of the system may keep people interested in the Wii for a short time, but over the long haul, it seems Joe Consumer is getting a Wii and then it's becoming a collector of dust. To determine whether the Wii is a fad or not, I think you need to look toward the next iteration of the hardware. When the next version of the Wii is released, how many of the current owners will buy the new system? If the Wii 2, or whatever Nintendo's next console is, doesn't sell at the pace of, or better than, the Wii, then I believe it would qualify as a fad.
The word "fad" implies that the success is temporary, that at some point there will be a backlash and the Wii's popularity will sharply and permanently decline.[/quote]I can't even begin to think of how to word this right.
But I'm going to try...
I don't remember who, but someone pointed out that the Wii is just a $250 board game for most families. They buy it, they bring it out once or twice a year for holiday gathers and the like... sure the novelty of the system may keep people interested in the Wii for a short time, but over the long haul, it seems Joe Consumer is getting a Wii and then it's becoming a collector of dust. To determine whether the Wii is a fad or not, I think you need to look toward the next iteration of the hardware. When the next version of the Wii is released, how many of the current owners will buy the new system? If the Wii 2, or whatever Nintendo's next console is, doesn't sell at the pace of, or better than, the Wii, then I believe it would qualify as a fad.
corrosivefrost
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[quote name='lilboo']What is SMT?
Super Mario Trailer?!
That'd be kinda bad ass.
But seriously, what's SMT?[/quote]
Shin Megami Tensei... it's the series of Japanese RPGs that include the Persona games and Digitial Devil Saga games.
Super Mario Trailer?!
That'd be kinda bad ass.
But seriously, what's SMT?[/quote]
Shin Megami Tensei... it's the series of Japanese RPGs that include the Persona games and Digitial Devil Saga games.
[quote name='xycury']
What titles do the Hardcore want on the wii, because then I'd have to rebutte that does it 'need' to be there....
[/QUOTE]
That's kind of silly question. What people want on any console is enough games that interest them to justify them purchasing the console.
I'm a fan of FPS and western RPGs primarily as I noted, so clearly the Wii wasn't for me. I did enjoy Mario, Metroid and Zelda when I had one, but I wasn't going to keep it around as I'm not optimistic any of those franchises, other than maybe Zelda, will get a sequel on the Wii and aside from those franchise there just wasn't (and isn't) anything on the Wii that fits my tastes.
Do those types of games need to be on the WII? Absolutely not, it's selling like crazy and I have no interest in playing FPS games and Western RPGs with waggle controls and standard definition graphics and the gimped Wii online system.
Like I've said through out the thread, there's plenty of room in the gaming market for the Wii and for the HD consoles. Variety is a good thing, and I don't see the Wii as a threat at all. I'll never have a shortage of FPS and western RPGs to play in the foreseeable future, so why should I care how many causal games are sold, or if Wii owners buy games or just have it gather dust like a board game? I don't care about that kind of industry stuff as long as I'm playing games I love.
What titles do the Hardcore want on the wii, because then I'd have to rebutte that does it 'need' to be there....
[/QUOTE]
That's kind of silly question. What people want on any console is enough games that interest them to justify them purchasing the console.
I'm a fan of FPS and western RPGs primarily as I noted, so clearly the Wii wasn't for me. I did enjoy Mario, Metroid and Zelda when I had one, but I wasn't going to keep it around as I'm not optimistic any of those franchises, other than maybe Zelda, will get a sequel on the Wii and aside from those franchise there just wasn't (and isn't) anything on the Wii that fits my tastes.
Do those types of games need to be on the WII? Absolutely not, it's selling like crazy and I have no interest in playing FPS games and Western RPGs with waggle controls and standard definition graphics and the gimped Wii online system.
Like I've said through out the thread, there's plenty of room in the gaming market for the Wii and for the HD consoles. Variety is a good thing, and I don't see the Wii as a threat at all. I'll never have a shortage of FPS and western RPGs to play in the foreseeable future, so why should I care how many causal games are sold, or if Wii owners buy games or just have it gather dust like a board game? I don't care about that kind of industry stuff as long as I'm playing games I love.
[quote name='corrosivefrost']I can't even begin to think of how to word this right.
But I'm going to try...
I don't remember who, but someone pointed out that the Wii is just a $250 board game for most families. They buy it, they bring it out once or twice a year for holiday gathers and the like... sure the novelty of the system may keep people interested in the Wii for a short time, but over the long haul, it seems Joe Consumer is getting a Wii and then it's becoming a collector of dust. To determine whether the Wii is a fad or not, I think you need to look toward the next iteration of the hardware. When the next version of the Wii is released, how many of the current owners will buy the new system? If the Wii 2, or whatever Nintendo's next console is, doesn't sell at the pace of, or better than, the Wii, then I believe it would qualify as a fad.[/quote]
Indeed! I agree, so why the shaqfu are we talking about the "future" when it's not going to really do any harm till the next gen is out... which won't be till 2010... another year.
geez...
I think Hardcore is really scared if they think the Wii is dragging the Ps3 and Xbox down.
I'd like to think of the Wii as NOT in the same league as the other two... they are different machines.... which just a few titles shared between them.
[quote name='dmaul1114']That's kind of silly question. What people want on any console is enough games that interest them to justify them purchasing the console.
I'm a fan of FPS and western RPGs primarily as I noted, so clearly the Wii wasn't for me. I did enjoy Mario, Metroid and Zelda when I had one, but I wasn't going to keep it around as I'm not optimistic any of those franchises, other than maybe Zelda, will get a sequel on the Wii and aside from those franchise there just wasn't (and isn't) anything on the Wii that fits my tastes.
Do those types of games need to be on the WII? Absolutely not, it's selling like crazy and I have no interest in playing FPS games and Western RPGs with waggle controls and standard definition graphics and the gimped Wii online system.
Like I've said through out the thread, there's plenty of room in the gaming market for the Wii and for the HD consoles. Variety is a good thing, and I don't see the Wii as a threat at all. I'll never have a shortage of FPS and western RPGs to play in the foreseeable future, so why should I care how many causal games are sold, or if Wii owners buy games or just have it gather dust like a board game? I don't care about that kind of industry stuff as long as I'm playing games I love.[/quote]
Indeed it's a silly question... I intended to be silly because it's just reaching to complain about the wii and it's growing library that the hardcore doesn't care about.
So what.
If it fails I really don't think it will have ANY impact on the Gaming industry. Make this a poll and see how many are scared.
But I'm going to try...
I don't remember who, but someone pointed out that the Wii is just a $250 board game for most families. They buy it, they bring it out once or twice a year for holiday gathers and the like... sure the novelty of the system may keep people interested in the Wii for a short time, but over the long haul, it seems Joe Consumer is getting a Wii and then it's becoming a collector of dust. To determine whether the Wii is a fad or not, I think you need to look toward the next iteration of the hardware. When the next version of the Wii is released, how many of the current owners will buy the new system? If the Wii 2, or whatever Nintendo's next console is, doesn't sell at the pace of, or better than, the Wii, then I believe it would qualify as a fad.[/quote]
Indeed! I agree, so why the shaqfu are we talking about the "future" when it's not going to really do any harm till the next gen is out... which won't be till 2010... another year.
geez...
I think Hardcore is really scared if they think the Wii is dragging the Ps3 and Xbox down.
I'd like to think of the Wii as NOT in the same league as the other two... they are different machines.... which just a few titles shared between them.
[quote name='dmaul1114']That's kind of silly question. What people want on any console is enough games that interest them to justify them purchasing the console.
I'm a fan of FPS and western RPGs primarily as I noted, so clearly the Wii wasn't for me. I did enjoy Mario, Metroid and Zelda when I had one, but I wasn't going to keep it around as I'm not optimistic any of those franchises, other than maybe Zelda, will get a sequel on the Wii and aside from those franchise there just wasn't (and isn't) anything on the Wii that fits my tastes.
Do those types of games need to be on the WII? Absolutely not, it's selling like crazy and I have no interest in playing FPS games and Western RPGs with waggle controls and standard definition graphics and the gimped Wii online system.
Like I've said through out the thread, there's plenty of room in the gaming market for the Wii and for the HD consoles. Variety is a good thing, and I don't see the Wii as a threat at all. I'll never have a shortage of FPS and western RPGs to play in the foreseeable future, so why should I care how many causal games are sold, or if Wii owners buy games or just have it gather dust like a board game? I don't care about that kind of industry stuff as long as I'm playing games I love.[/quote]
Indeed it's a silly question... I intended to be silly because it's just reaching to complain about the wii and it's growing library that the hardcore doesn't care about.
So what.
If it fails I really don't think it will have ANY impact on the Gaming industry. Make this a poll and see how many are scared.
[quote name='Renaissance 2K']
Times have changed today. Big developers - EA, Ubisoft, Square-Enix, and others - have pledged serious support for the Wii. EA produces a version of their EA Sports line specifically for the Wii, and while they aren't sim titles, they still carry their own for what they are. Plus, the EA Casual line shows that EA knows how to target games to specific consoles and markets instead of just releasing terrible ports of HD games. (Hello, Craptivision.)
[/QUOTE]
My point here is not that the Wii doesn't have, and won't have good games. Though MSI Magus is making that point, I disagree with it.
My points just that they are going after a different market and the Wii is never going to appeal to the "hardcore" who want to play FPS, western RPGs, sports sims, racing sims etc. etc. etc.
Like you note, EA isn't dumbing down the HD games for the most part, but rather releasing a Casual Line to try to get people who bought Wii's for Wii Sports, Wii Fit etc. to buy more games.
And there's nothing wrong with that, there's just a few Nintendo fan's here trying to argue how great a system the Wii is, rather than simply realizing that it's really not a console for the "hardcore" gamer or anyone into genres like FPS, Western RPG etc.
Kudo's to Nintendo for saving themselves financially with their strategy, and kudos to people who enjoy this type of gaming and the same old franchise games from Nintendo. But fans shouldn't be so upset when gamers with different tastes say the Wii isn't for them. Though by all means go after Magus and others who say it has no good games period.
Times have changed today. Big developers - EA, Ubisoft, Square-Enix, and others - have pledged serious support for the Wii. EA produces a version of their EA Sports line specifically for the Wii, and while they aren't sim titles, they still carry their own for what they are. Plus, the EA Casual line shows that EA knows how to target games to specific consoles and markets instead of just releasing terrible ports of HD games. (Hello, Craptivision.)
[/QUOTE]
My point here is not that the Wii doesn't have, and won't have good games. Though MSI Magus is making that point, I disagree with it.
My points just that they are going after a different market and the Wii is never going to appeal to the "hardcore" who want to play FPS, western RPGs, sports sims, racing sims etc. etc. etc.
Like you note, EA isn't dumbing down the HD games for the most part, but rather releasing a Casual Line to try to get people who bought Wii's for Wii Sports, Wii Fit etc. to buy more games.
And there's nothing wrong with that, there's just a few Nintendo fan's here trying to argue how great a system the Wii is, rather than simply realizing that it's really not a console for the "hardcore" gamer or anyone into genres like FPS, Western RPG etc.
Kudo's to Nintendo for saving themselves financially with their strategy, and kudos to people who enjoy this type of gaming and the same old franchise games from Nintendo. But fans shouldn't be so upset when gamers with different tastes say the Wii isn't for them. Though by all means go after Magus and others who say it has no good games period.
[quote name='xycury']
Indeed it's a silly question... I intended to be silly because it's just reaching to complain about the wii and it's growing library that the hardcore doesn't care about.
So what.
If it fails I really don't think it will have ANY impact on the Gaming industry. Make this a poll and see how many are scared.[/QUOTE]
Then we're 100% in agreement. And I don't think very many people would reply that they are scared. Notice it's just one or two people posting that view over and over in the thread.
Indeed it's a silly question... I intended to be silly because it's just reaching to complain about the wii and it's growing library that the hardcore doesn't care about.
So what.
If it fails I really don't think it will have ANY impact on the Gaming industry. Make this a poll and see how many are scared.[/QUOTE]
Then we're 100% in agreement. And I don't think very many people would reply that they are scared. Notice it's just one or two people posting that view over and over in the thread.
bread's done