it continues: Manhunt 2 given AO rating in the U.S.

[quote name='Zen Davis'][email protected]

Contact her and let her know how you feel. The president of the ESRB. I personally am boycotting any new games and only buying used games until they get off this power trip.[/QUOTE]

That makes a lot of sense seeing as its the system creators, not the developers/publishers that benefit the most from new game sales..... *eyeroll*

Can't anything happen on the internet without someone declaring a boycott?
 
[quote name='daroga']On the internet, anyone who does anything you disagree with is out to get you.[/quote]
Damn straight. If anyone's out to get you, it's them intarweb folks.
 
Exactly, mr ryles. I don't quite understand why I can buy an incredibly violent/near pornographic DVD one aisle over, but I can't buy a video game with the same content? In video games, it's not even a real human to which the violence is being acted upon unlike movies. I just think people are still stuck in the mentality that only 13 year old kids play video games.
 
A question then: Would the two of you be happier if there was a consistent decision and the unrated versions of movies were banned as well?
 
[quote name='Genocidal']A question then: Would the two of you be happier if there was a consistent decision and the unrated versions of movies were banned as well?[/QUOTE]

No, both should be available. But I think a general consensus need to be put into place. If the Game is designed for 21+ year old person then only sell it to the person of that age same thing goes for the movies. Make it a law, make it a crime for the store to sell the product to anyone under the given age of the title. It's bullshit that they are trying to push for games to be all happy and kiddy and that if a 12 year old kid can't play it then no one can play it.
 
[quote name='mr ryles']No, both should be available. But I think a general consensus need to be put into place. If the Game is designed for 21+ year old person then only sell it to the person of that age same thing goes for the movies. Make it a law, make it a crime for the store to sell the product to anyone under the given age of the title. It's bullshit that they are trying to push for games to be all happy and kiddy and that if a 12 year old kid can't play it then no one can play it.[/quote]
Yes, both should be available but it shouldn't be illegal to sell to minors. A violent video game shouldn't be like selling cigarettes or alcohol.

Last time I checked, it's not illegal to sell an R rated or even a Unrated movie to a minor, unless said material is purely pornographic. Video games should be the same. Right now the ESRB, retailers, and the big three publishers treat M rated games like a PG-13 movie... which can contain cursing to some extent, a little nudity, as well as violence.
 
See, I'm totally against the ESRB or retailers relaxing their controls on M rated titles to include easier sales to minors. What's the first thing morons always blame(once it's found they played them)when one of the school shootings happened?

Oh.....video games were to blame for their stupid behavior. I don't know about you, but I'd prefer if ALL retailers were like Wal*Mart when ringing up M rated games and required ID if the person looks under the stated age limit.

While many kids won't go out and take out an entire school of people because they saw it in a video game, there are the shmucks(like these kids I remember reading about from Tennessee who shot at cars on a nearby highway after seeing it in GTA)who will go apeshit and then either they will blame it on video games or the morons investigating it will do so.

The standard 18-34 age range that many see as the main demographic for gamers in this country is pretty close to the absolute truth, with maybe 1-5% of the rest making up Johnny Jackoff and his know it all soccer mom mom who will get the lil turd anything he wants to just shut him up. My point? I'm old enough to go out and buy these games if I want to, while lil Johnny has to have mommy do it unless he gets a stupid clerk who just wants to make their numbers look better.

It's those fuckin idiots we need to have the ESRB go out and find and STAPLE a fuckin copy of the ratings system to their foreheads and/or explain it SLOWLY so the self important cell phone toting soccer moms can fuckin understand and stop buying Resident Evil for lil Johnny because 'he wanted it'.

Either that or when said M rated game is bought for a minor or by a minor, a release should be signed stating that the morons will not blame the games for their behavior if they go off and kill someone to mimic the game. Otherwise, if they do blame the companies, THEY can be SUED by the companies because they went against the ratings and a minor had it.

I know it's unenforcable on SO MANY levels, but imagine the deterrent if Susie SoccerMom sees that she can be held legally responsible for little dipshits actions and her own by buying him that 'harmless game he wants'.
 
[quote name='tenaciousjack']Bump.
Any news or is it being shelved indefinitely?[/QUOTE]

T2 is evaluating its options. Stay tuned.
 
WHO THE fuck BUMPED THIS!!!??


Someone has to die. This thread was not meant to be resurrected EVER again.



P.S.: Don't expect any news on this until GTA:IV releases. I think Take Two wants to stay out of hot water until they can get that out and at least get a chance of making back the money they lost on Manhunt 2.
 
Might as well post this now.

We are responding to the article Sick Filth?, in which you expressed support for the ban of Manhunt 2.

Although censorship makes you "deeply uncomfortable" and you found the ban’s rationale "a less comfortable topic", you agreed with the judgment of the British Board of Film Classification that no one - regardless of age or personal opinion - should be allowed to consider playing Manhunt 2.

We are still exploring our options for Manhunt 2, but how does banning our game support the industry or further the development of the medium? Unlike a heavy-handed editor or a critical review of a game, a ban is punishment for deviating from tradition.

A ban denies everyone the chance to consider, experience, or discuss the actual game. The only obvious victor is the status quo.

You seem to view banning Manhunt 2 as a way to protect the industry from scrutiny and unfair attacks. In fact, a ban is a triumph for the industry’s harshest critics, not an act of diplomacy.

A ban is only likely to encourage those who believe video games, already the most regulated medium in entertainment history, should be further restricted.

What about games make them deserve special treatment from the authorities? According to industry groups, the average games player is in his or her 30s, yet you support the widely held view that games are somehow a less sophisticated medium than cinema, only suitable for immature audiences.

In other words, although gamers can negotiate the boundaries between reality and fiction in other media, you believe we are incapable of navigating the same boundaries in videogames.

Yes, we have responsibilities as an industry, but as a creative industry, not as a pharmaceutical or weapons industry. Creative industries have always faced harsh political and legal criticism, and we know some of the movie industry’s more reactionary responses to scrutiny actually backfired.

We believe in a well-run ratings system. With the best rating system in history and the future of the industry and medium at stake, we don’t understand why it is necessary to effectively ban all games intended for players 18 and older.

Sincerely,

Rockstar Games
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LINK
 
[quote name='monkeydeew']should i cancel my preorder[/quote]

The game will come out edited, so no why would you?

But do what you want...if missing that $5 is going to break ya whatever
 
I still predict Rockstar games either distributing this game in its current form themselves via the web(which would be the best option for them, if they wanted it to stay true to what it is right NOW)or they take the weaker route(like they did with the AO San Andreas and re-release it with the 'offensive' material taken out.

Honestly, just like the case with Tiger Woods 99 for PS1, which had the Jesus vs Santa South Park holiday episode on the original copies, I'm sure that the AO content in SA was only found by some kid whose parent couldn't be bothered to keep up on what they're playing or what they have in the way of game systems. The kid got bored, messed around with all sorts of cheat codes and voila, found the content which would've otherwise remained buried on the disc.

In many cases, games are made for the typical 18-34 age range that is somewhat widely accepted(except by critics of 'disgusting' game content)as the norm for gamers nowadays, yet the people who object to many things found in more recent games always state that 'children will be hurt by this or that'.

It's stupid parents which are to blame for the ratings system even BEING in place nowadays. But hell, back when it was formed, people were offended by the original Mortal Kombat and its then graphic depiction of violence.


Nowadays, even I admit to being a bit nauseated by some of what people call entertainment, but I still won't sit here and scream that it 'should be censored' because it'll hurt the children, when it's clear from the ratings that same media is given that it's never been INTENDED for children.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']I still predict Rockstar games either distributing this game in its current form themselves via the web(which would be the best option for them, if they wanted it to stay true to what it is right NOW)[/QUOTE]

I don't know that they could distribute the game like that for PS2, PSP, or Wii in that form; both because of the legality of creating unlicensed software for those consoles (if that is indeed the case), or also the strained console maker/publisher relations ("if you put out Manhunt 2, don't expect to put anything on our system again"). They could pull a Tengen, but it's probably not in their best financial interests. Of course, owning the GTA IP gives them some leverage (but not enough, apparently).
 
True, though as you said, there have been cases before with game publishers putting out unlicensed games. And honestly, who else is getting a little sick of Rockstar putting out the same 2-3 games in the GTA franchise.

Back on the original, it had all three cities, we later had the PS2/Xbox incarnations and will now have PS3/360 incarnations but with improved graphics and a different story.

I mean, don't get me wrong, but it seems like there's alot of devs/pubs who put out retreads of the same old series year in and year out.

Capcom-Street Fighter
Midway-Mortal Kombat
Rockstar-GTA series

And so on....

It gets truly redundant, even if it is a new story and all because it's the same shit we played maybe 4-5 years ago, but with a prettier picture.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']True, though as you said, there have been cases before with game publishers putting out unlicensed games.[/QUOTE]
We're on page 24 of this thread, and there are still idiots who think that it's possible for them to release an AO-rated version? I can't believe I'm having to explain this again.

If they wanted to publish an unlicensed game, they would have to make it without using any official devkits or development documents or anything of that nature. That may have been possibly in the NES days, but these days, with the complexity of today's game consoles, it is literally almost impossible.

There will never, ever, ever be an AO-rated version of Manhunt 2 on a console. fucking deal with it.

[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']It's stupid parents which are to blame for the ratings system even BEING in place nowadays.[/QUOTE]
Uh...no? The ratings system was established out of common sense, and the need to let parents know something about the content of the games they were buying, which were relatively skyrocketing in the early and mid '90s.

[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']Honestly, just like the case with Tiger Woods 99 for PS1, which had the Jesus vs Santa South Park holiday episode on the original copies, I'm sure that the AO content in SA was only found by some kid whose parent couldn't be bothered to keep up on what they're playing or what they have in the way of game systems. The kid got bored, messed around with all sorts of cheat codes and voila, found the content which would've otherwise remained buried on the disc.[/QUOTE]
Uh, no. A 37-year-old Dutchman named Patrick Wildenborg found it.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']We're on page 24 of this thread, and there are still idiots who think that it's possible for them to release an AO-rated version? I can't believe I'm having to explain this again.

If they wanted to publish an unlicensed game, they would have to make it without using any official devkits or development documents or anything of that nature. That may have been possibly in the NES days, but these days, with the complexity of today's game consoles, it is literally almost impossible.

There will never, ever, ever be an AO-rated version of Manhunt 2 on a console. fucking deal with it.[/quote]

Whoa there, Cranky McCrankerson! First, take a deep breath. Second, slowly exhale. Play some Enigma or something soothing and ambient, and repeat after me:

"Some people disagree with me. That's ok."

Do it until it sinks in.

Now, as far as technology is concerned, I have a HDD Loader disc that, much like the *unlicensed* Action Replays, used a backwards-engineered "Crazy Taxi" code to allow themselves to be bootable on the PS2. It's not only possible these days, but, given homebrew for various consoles, more prevalent in this day and age than it was in the past.

Uh...no? The ratings system was established out of common sense, and the need to let parents know something about the content of the games they were buying, which were relatively skyrocketing in the early and mid '90s.
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I believe that "common sense" has to originate somewhere. Good intentions don't arise on their own.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']"Some people disagree with me. That's ok."[/quote]
This has nothing to do with agreement and disagreement over opinion. This is about technical facts, and people's ignorance and lack of understanding of those facts (including yours, Prof).

[quote name='mykevermin']Now, as far as technology is concerned, I have a HDD Loader disc that, much like the *unlicensed* Action Replays, used a backwards-engineered "Crazy Taxi" code to allow themselves to be bootable on the PS2. It's not only possible these days, but, given homebrew for various consoles, more prevalent in this day and age than it was in the past.[/quote]
Yes indeed, PS2 homebrew is possible. But you clearly don't have a very solid understanding of it.

PS2 homebrew is made one of two ways: Either using illegal, stolen official development software, allowing a skilled enough homebrewer or homebrew team to do just about anything that an actual game developer could do with the hardware, or by using 100% homemade, and for the most part, legal development libraries. So, indeed, it is possible to make legal homebrew PS2 software using the homebrew development tools. But what makes it impossible for a game like manhunt 2 to be developed and distributed using these tools, is that they simply aren't advanced and comprehensive enough to be used to develop a "high-production, commercial-quality" game like that. Regardless of the skill of the coders, there simply isn't a way to develop a game like Manhunt 2 using the free, homebrew development tools. They aren't efficient enough, and don't anywhere near full advantage of the PS2's abilities. Certainly, nowhere close enough to make something like Manhunt.

So, again, it's 100%, completely fucking impossible.

I believe that "common sense" has to originate somewhere. Good intentions don't arise on their own.
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Ah, you're right, I forgot. The ESRB is actually all a part of the propagation of the opressive white male power structure.
 
But see, people like to be told what to do, what is good or bad for them, since then it lowers their level of responsibility and they don't have to think for themselves. After all, if something bad comes out and someone finds out about it, they can just say 'I'm sickened by this, it must be banned', since after all, the rest of society(which is pretty depraced imo nowadays anyway)couldn't possibly disagree with me, right?

And CoffeeEdge, who really is going to sit there and input ALL the codes needed to unlock the AO content of the original SA. I mean, I've seen the laundry list of codes required and if I want to see it, I'll just hop onto YouTube to see it. But, the Tiger Woods one was a kid who found it, by opening various files on the PS1 disc using programs on their computer already.

Thing is, their family bought them the PS1 version, instead of the version for PC(which was all they had to play games). And, as they say, curiousity killed the cat. But, in this case, it found a South Park video.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']But see, people like to be told what to do, what is good or bad for them, since then it lowers their level of responsibility and they don't have to think for themselves. After all, if something bad comes out and someone finds out about it, they can just say 'I'm sickened by this, it must be banned', since after all, the rest of society(which is pretty depraced imo nowadays anyway)couldn't possibly disagree with me, right?[/quote]
Uh, what the fuck are you talking about?

And CoffeeEdge, who really is going to sit there and input ALL the codes needed to unlock the AO content of the original SA. I mean, I've seen the laundry list of codes required and if I want to see it, I'll just hop onto YouTube to see it. But, the Tiger Woods one was a kid who found it, by opening various files on the PS1 disc using programs on their computer already.
Click to expand...
Uh, thousands and thousands of people, obviously. And if you have the PC version of SA, all you need is Patrick Wildenborg's mod, which allows you to access the minigame without putting in any codes at all.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']This has nothing to do with agreement and disagreement over opinion. This is about technical facts, and people's ignorance and lack of understanding of those facts (including yours, Prof).


Yes indeed, PS2 homebrew is possible. But you clearly don't have a very solid understanding of it.

PS2 homebrew is made one of two ways: Either using illegal, stolen official development software, allowing a skilled enough homebrewer or homebrew team to do just about anything that an actual game developer could do with the hardware, or by using 100% homemade, and for the most part, legal development libraries. So, indeed, it is possible to make legal homebrew PS2 software using the homebrew development tools. But what makes it impossible for a game like manhunt 2 to be developed and distributed using these tools, is that they simply aren't advanced and comprehensive enough to be used to develop a "high-production, commercial-quality" game like that. Regardless of the skill of the coders, there simply isn't a way to develop a game like Manhunt 2 using the free, homebrew development tools. They aren't efficient enough, and don't anywhere near full advantage of the PS2's abilities. Certainly, nowhere close enough to make something like Manhunt.

So, again, it's 100%, completely fucking impossible.[/quote]

http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product_id=801843

Why is that product on the shelves, then? Is it as complex as Manhunt 2? No? That's fine - it is still engineered using the first technique you mentioned. Look, I'm sure you're very confident of how right you are, but the insistence you have of your rightness is contradicted by what exists on store shelves.

Ah, you're right, I forgot. The ESRB is actually all a part of the propagation of the opressive white male power structure, and make tons of money doing it.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure who you had to blow in the office today, but you need to give up your whiny bitch attitude. All I'm saying is that "common sense" does not exist outside the people who consider it common sense, and those are both the "stupid parents" the other person mentioned, the console/game industry itself, and certain vested interests. People possess attitudes that lead to change. The attitudes that don't exist by themselves. If you want to say "common sense" made the change, fine. But it's absolutely *absurd* to say that as a way of implying that your argument somehow invalidates that people actually perpetuated the change.

[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']But see, people like to be told what to do, what is good or bad for them, since then it lowers their level of responsibility and they don't have to think for themselves. After all, if something bad comes out and someone finds out about it, they can just say 'I'm sickened by this, it must be banned', since after all, the rest of society(which is pretty depraced imo nowadays anyway)couldn't possibly disagree with me, right?[/QUOTE]

You can't prove that, by the way.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product_id=801843

Why is that product on the shelves, then? Is it as complex as Manhunt 2? No? That's fine - it is still engineered using the first technique you mentioned. Look, I'm sure you're very confident of how right you are, but the insistence you have of your rightness is contradicted by what exists on store shelves.[/quote]
Hahahahaha, dude. How does the existance of a cheat device, which makes no use whatsoever of, say, complex 3D libraries assorted other high-level code needed to run a game like Manhunt 2, prove that it's possible to develop a game like that using homebrew tools?

And also, you're telling me that the AR Max was developed using stolen devkits? Link, please. Sony would have sued them into the ground.

You're completely and utterly wrong.

I'm not sure who you had to blow in the office today, but you need to give up your whiny bitch attitude. All I'm saying is that "common sense" does not exist outside the people who consider it common sense, and those are both the "stupid parents" the other person mentioned, the console/game industry itself, and certain vested interests. People possess attitudes that lead to change. The attitudes that don't exist by themselves. If you want to say "common sense" made the change, fine. But it's absolutely *absurd* to say that as a way of implying that your argument somehow invalidates that people actually perpetuated the change.
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Look, I'm just tired of the people bitching about how evil the ESRB is. Simple as that.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Look, I'm just tired of the people bitching about how evil the ESRB is. Simple as that.[/QUOTE]

There are some solid criticisms that Take 2 and Manhunt were made examples of as a means of "proving the legitimacy" of the ESRB. I wouldn't say "evil," but certainly "complicit" or possibly "cowardly" as well.

If you're tired of the bitching, go make yourself a snack or play some disc golf. I get the feeling it's not going to go away from this thread.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']There are some solid criticisms that Take 2 and Manhunt were made examples of as a means of "proving the legitimacy" of the ESRB. I wouldn't say "evil," but certainly "complicit" or possibly "cowardly" as well.

If you're tired of the bitching, go make yourself a snack or play some disc golf. I get the feeling it's not going to go away from this thread.[/QUOTE]

When you say disk golf are you referring to frisbee golf?
 
Yes. A regional dialect to call it "disc golf," perhaps?

Speaking of regional, and going way off topic, at the bar last night they had an arcade machine of local hillbilly bean bag game (I kid you not), "Cornhole." I'm fucking amazed and sickened.
 
What still gets me is that a small but vocal minority want anything THEY deem offensive banned or censored beyond recognition, even if they are not the intended audience.

Honestly, I still say R* should say 'f ya' to the ESRB and the console makers and just distribute it themselves, but I understand that it was made with the dev kits provided by those same companies, so that would definitely be a 'grey' area.

Or they could just do a Thrill Kill and have it dist'd free over the net via torrent sites and just wash their hands of the whole idea of having to censor their product to suit some snooty panels sensibilities.

I just get a kick out of all of the things that have been released in all forms of media, some of which still sicken many people(the Faces Of Death video series, for example), yet there are other items(such as this game) which are deemed 'inappropriate'.

It never ceases to amaze me, since I often find the local and national news to be offensive with their showing of footage from the war, yet those are still shown because they're 'newsworthy'?

Double standard, I tell ya.

Oh and Coffee Edge, I didn't even have to enter codes or put any type of mod file on my PC, since I just went to YouTube and watched someones video of the Hot Coffee mod.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']There are some solid criticisms that Take 2 and Manhunt were made examples of as a means of "proving the legitimacy" of the ESRB. I wouldn't say "evil," but certainly "complicit" or possibly "cowardly" as well.
[/quote]
I believe that, I think one of the major factors in Manhunt 2 being banned is because it has Rockstar/Take-Two on the cover, hell read/watch the previews for Condemned 2 and it's very similar to what we know about Manhunt.

But hey, it's just some developer, they are expendable. Especially when it makes your own ratings systems seem more effective to guys like Jack Thompson:

Responsible people within the industry, even Doug Lowenstein, have been saying for quite sometime that Take-Two had become a problem for the entire industry because it was painting a bullseye on the back of the whole industry and making it more difficult for the industry to get US politicians off its back.

Now the ESRB does something that indicates is might be trustworthy, and you nitwits go bonkers because of that development.

Grow up and smell the hot coffee. This is the best thing that could have happened to the industry. The isolation and ostracism of Take-Two by the industry was long overdue.

Now that it has come, rejoice.

Jack Thompson, Attorney, and you're not.
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Lets just forget about actually trying to make improvements to the rating systems, and thus make them more effective. It's just easier to bully some company, and making yourself look good, rather than trying to fix the faults that currently exist.
 
Thanks to MisterHand for the heads-up in the Wii thread:

http://ir.take2games.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=261582

New York, NY - August 24, 2007 - Rockstar Games today announced it will release Manhunt 2 for the PlayStation®2 computer entertainment system, PSP® (PlayStation®Portable) system, and the Wii™ home video game system from Nintendo in North America on October 31, 2007. This announcement follows the submission of a modified version of Manhunt 2 to the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB), who has now rated the title "M" for Mature for ages 17 and older.
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[quote name='mykevermin']

fuckin' sellouts.[/QUOTE]

I'm willing to bet these two actions were coincidental in their timing under the best of circumstances.

Otherwise I don't want to know anything more.
 
I had a weird dream about a game. It involved taking everyone at Rockstar (save for former ex-Barking Dog), Jack Thompson, and Joe Lieberman and smothering them all with ziplock bags. It was called "All three of these parties get way more attention than their abilities should afford them". Like most Rockstar games it was a great core idea, but the controls were shit and the missions were designed via correspondance with the lead's Ethiopian pen pal.
 
[quote name='guinaevere']fuckin' sellouts capitalists.

Bottom line myke... gotta pay da bills.[/QUOTE]

If that's the case, they shouldn't have taken the "oppressed starving artist" framework in their post-AO rating shenanigans. They should have clammed up, added in more cake and pie (and whatever else would reduce it to an "M" rating), and resubmitted it. But the "artistic integrity" line they brandished for so long is pretty meaningless when they capitulate so easily.

Strell, after a "pop-tart" and cup of Sanka, it's how a bitter liberal should start off every morning.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
Strell, after a "pop-tart" and cup of Sanka, it's how a bitter liberal should start off every morning.[/QUOTE]

Well I do like the White Frosting variety of poptarts, but they are hard to find in the wild. You have to stay downwind of your prey.

And I am bitter. That makes their sweetness even sweeter.

I'll have to give thought to the proposed complimentary actions. Maybe over a hearty bowl of Frosted Flakes.

Ho ho! Frosted Flakes! I kill me!
 
tsk tsk. Going for the lowest common denominator today, are we? That kind of material wouldn't even get you on stage at a college bar open mic night. I expect more of you.
 
Even Shakespeare wrote for the plebians.

I could have suggested Frosted Shredded Wheat were that more to your liking.

I think cream cheese bagels implies too much work.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']If that's the case, they shouldn't have taken the "oppressed starving artist" framework in their post-AO rating shenanigans. They should have clammed up, added in more cake and pie (and whatever else would reduce it to an "M" rating), and resubmitted it. But the "artistic integrity" line they brandished for so long is pretty meaningless when they capitulate so easily.[/quote]No question, but did anyone actually buy the artistic license garbage? They were putting up an argument which I assumed everyone saw through. "we don't want to change anything, we spent enough time and money towards that end... I know! Let's call it Art. Yeah, appeal to the bleeding hearts who go wild for that sort of trite and see where it takes us. Jones, in the meantime, work on adding more cake and pie. Just in case this doesn't work."

Strell, after a "pop-tart" and cup of Sanka, it's how a bitter liberal should start off every morning.
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Dude, they still make Sanka? I haven't seen that in probably over 20sumpin years. Brings back creepy memories of sitting bored in some relation's kitchen who I didn't know while the adults spoke haltingly.

[quote name='Strell']I think cream cheese bagels implies too much work.[/quote]"Jones, grab me an onion with lox while you're at it."

Can't find a decent bagel joint around here. Big surprize. South isn't known for their delis. But pork and bbq places on every stinkin' corner.
grumps.gif



and just because mykes around...
cigar.gif
 
[quote name='Strell']Even Shakespeare wrote for the plebians.

I could have suggested Frosted Shredded Wheat were that more to your liking.

I think cream cheese bagels implies too much work.[/QUOTE]

Something about wheat germ seems funny and high-class (because only posh assholes add that nasty stuff to their breakfast plate). It ain't Lenny Bruce, but it works.

I have no idea if they still make Sanka, but it certainly is fun to say and type.

I'm going to hold off on this game and see if (1) the Wii version is hella fun to play or (2) a "director's cut" PC version comes out. I'm not silly enough to call for a nonexistent boycott, but I do find the revision news disappointing.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']If that's the case, they shouldn't have taken the "oppressed starving artist" framework in their post-AO rating shenanigans. They should have clammed up, added in more cake and pie (and whatever else would reduce it to an "M" rating), and resubmitted it. But the "artistic integrity" line they brandished for so long is pretty meaningless when they capitulate so easily.
[/quote]

They should of gone the Scarface route and resumitted an "edit" copy of the game even though they did not edit anything in the game (I.E. They lied to them). After a few times and wearing them down, they will finally give in and give the game an 'M' rating.

I will still buy this game for the PSP though...
 
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