Juan Cena Lucha Libre La discusión está aquí! (Juan Cena Wrestling Thread)

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Punk is godly on color commentary; play-by-play, not so much. It was pretty painful having him as the lone announcer at the end of the show tonight.
 
I watched a small part of Raw tonight. Why is Lawler interrupting the guys in the ring? Why is Michael Cole defending the Miz? Cole can't even do a decent job being a commentator let alone talking on the mic. He actually makes Taz look good.
 
[quote name='Trakan']I watched a small part of Raw tonight. Why is Lawler interrupting the guys in the ring? Why is Michael Cole defending the Miz? Cole can't even do a decent job being a commentator let alone talking on the mic. He actually makes Taz look good.[/QUOTE]
I thought you'd appreciate an old guy hogging up space in the main event, being a TNA fan and all.
 
[quote name='Ugamer_X']I thought you'd appreciate an old guy hogging up space in the main event, being a TNA fan and all.[/QUOTE]

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[quote name='Mr. Beef']
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:lol:

You know what wasn't good on RAW? Alex Riley's own reference to his DUI. It was fine when Punk poked at him last week but blatantly highlighting his own idiocy was a dick move. This wasn't part of a storyline, it was a wink and a nod to the people who knew what he was talking about. Forget the fact that he wasn't disciplined for his DUI ('sup RVD), it's just a despicable thing to laugh off something like breaking the law and putting other lives in danger. He can kindly fuck himself.
 
RVD wasn't just busted for a DUI - cops found pot and other stuff on he and Sabu. It isn't like Riley's getting a mega-push after it - he's the champion's sidekick, and will be seeing the lights A LOT for a while.
 
Yeah, that Riley/RVD comparison isn't even remotely valid. Trust me, if Riley was champ and got that same DUI, he'd have faced the same punishment. I'd argue that Riley is only around because he doesn't matter... but he got to stay around because he really does matter.

What?

I love the way that they're building Miz. This isn't Swagger, this isn't even Punk's first run... there's a plan here, and I hope they follow through the way I think they will. One of the first things that stands out about Miz is that his promos have actual passion behind them. It's not a John Cena 'rah rah' promo, or an Orton 'monotone menacing voice growl!' promo. Miz has feeling behind his words, which is why it's working. When he rants about proving people wrong, you know it's not just a promo, which is why it works.

So, why do I love it?

He rants and rants about proving everyone wrong about his ability to be there, but it's true. His character *shouldn't* be there. He NEEDS Alex Riley to help him. He NEEDS Michael Cole as a cheerleader. He isn't a dominant champion, and he'll squeeze out victories week after week, but they won't be definitive. He'll have help, or he'll cheat, or whatever. Point is, he'll be a great cowardly champion, but one that believes that he truly is the best guy on Raw. It's why Riley is still around, and didn't get Lance Cade-ed (too soon?). Cade and Jericho was fine, but Cade wasn't important in Jericho's character. Riley is a huge part of where I think they're headed with Miz, and taking him away would've been really bad. By the time Riley was busted, they had to have known the plan, and I assert that's the only reason Riley is still employed.

So, yeah, I have zero problems with last night. Was it Lawler? Sure. Point of order, though? The fans popped louder for Lawler than most of the people in the KotR tournament. Miz retained, and looked like an asshole while doing so. There's a ton of money in a cowardly champion that looks beatable, and Miz is doing that very well. In fact, this is the best build that any MitB winner has gotten, because it takes into account that just because a guy has a briefcase doesn't mean he's suddenly able to hang with your main eventers. This is how it should've been all along.

So, the problem is, Miz needs to retain for a long time to make this work. Honestly, he barely keeps winning for 3 months, and the crowd will fucking pop HUGE when someone finally beats him. I'm honestly hoping that they keep it going until Mania... by that time people will want to see him beaten, and it also solidifies him as main event talent by being champ for 4 months.






Overall, I enjoyed Raw. It was weird, the site I usually go to for commentary just shit all over it, but I really didn't have too many issues. Some blips, but it was a solid show overall. It does worry me, though, that the Slammys are in 2 weeks (ANOTHER 3 hour?), as they've had some momentum recently, but they've also kept having 'special' Raws to boost them up. Old School, KotR, Slammys... once we get away from those, can they keep this up?
 
Posted this in the vs forum this morning - lesson learned to not post before coffee.

The execution of the Cena angle is *baaaaad*. Like "I'm ashamed to watch it because I feel bad for the writers and the writers' mommas" bad.

Dude got fired and shows up for work still wearing kneepads and all his merchandise. If I got fired from Burger King, and showed up the next day (and the next and the next) wearing my BK uniform, I'd end up with a restraining order, not my job back.

Can you imagine what it's like to pack John Cena's clothes for a WWE tour? "Hmm, which jorts and purple t-shirt should I pack this week?"

Then there's the aspect where WWE is telling the fans it's okay to run in and attack dudes if they're just members of the crowd. Join Cena in defeating Nexus! Maybe you'll get a match at the TLC PPV out of it!

It's really, really sad storytelling, honestly. And it's either revealing of what simpletons the WWE writers are, what simpletons the WWE writers think the fans are (subtlety and nuance are for queers, not the WWE Universe™!), or what the McMahons think important narrative devices are (tell Juan Cena to "spic it up!")
 
I thought R-Truth was pretty good during his mic time last night. I just wish they'd let him speak more often, but Vince would rather see him dance.

I sometimes daydream about a new version of the NoD with him, MVP, and maybe Ezekiel Jackson or Shad Gaspard with a mean streak as the heavy. Those guys(especially Shad) aren't really doing much now, so it would at least give them a direction to go with them. There are a few other guys who could also fit in: JTG, Kofi, someone playing the Crush or Owen Hart part, or even Santino with the Boris Alexiev gimmick. It'd be like the Rodney Mack angle from a few years ago, but good.
 
Myke perfectly expanded on my thoughts last night during Raw. I actually wish he came back in a mask, that's how much I despise this.

Even the attempt at logic was baffling... Nexus attacked security guys, so they won't stop Cena? I mean, what the fuck.

Honestly, and this is totally flying in the face of me believing they've planned this Miz angle out, I think they started writing the Cena gets fired storyline with absolutely no idea where it was going. This can't have been the plan. It just can't be.

Oh, and let's take that 'dressed for work and showing up' thing to the next level... are we going to cover the fact that this would have to be considered some kind of stalking? The man is apparently paying (his own money, assumably) to travel all over the country to physically assault people. It's not as if someone is showing up to the IMPACT!Zone every week.

This is just an angle so devoid of logic that it's kind of painful to think about it.
 
I don't mind the cowardly heel angle, enjoy it really. Alex Riley getting involved I expected. I don't even really mind a second person interfering on his behalf, I just had a problem with Michael Cole getting inserted there. That's my only real complaint with the final match last night. The Cena shit, in general, is just stupid. I like Punk pointing out that he is fired and that's assault and battery. They should really play on that more to be honest. Of course showing Cena in cuffs would make all the kids cry and lord knows we don't want that.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Champ as chump? Dude is a heel, and a cowardly heel. He's *supposed* to bullshit the majority of his victories.[/QUOTE]
This mentality about "weak champions" is nonsense, and it's getting really annoying. It's like internet fans suddenly all turned into Apter mags - I'm expecting them to start parroting headlines like "SHAMEFUL SHEAMUS! 6 DQ's IN A MONTH!" or "MIZ CONGENIALITY HE'S NOT!"

The wrestling business is a fucking work, it's not like people are going to stop caring about The Miz because he had help to win a match against an old guy. If you hated the idea of him being champion before, you still do. If you liked the idea of him being champion, you still do. If you're any kind of longtime fan you knew what to expect with a Miz title run. He's not going to start constantly pinning anyone of worth clean in the middle with no help or unfair advantage because that's not his character...and without some major changes, it never will be.

Having Miz just go out there and waste Lawler like he "should have" would have been horrible, boring television.
 
[quote name='pitfallharry219']I thought R-Truth was pretty good during his mic time last night. I just wish they'd let him speak more often, but Vince would rather see him dance.

I sometimes daydream about a new version of the NoD with him, MVP, and maybe Ezekiel Jackson or Shad Gaspard with a mean streak as the heavy. Those guys(especially Shad) aren't really doing much now, so it would at least give them a direction to go with them. There are a few other guys who could also fit in: JTG, Kofi, someone playing the Crush or Owen Hart part, or even Santino with the Boris Alexiev gimmick. It'd be like the Rodney Mack angle from a few years ago, but good.[/QUOTE]

I think I read somewhere that Shad got released a couple weeks ago. Did anyone else hear Punk jump ahead to the final match of the KOTR tourney while Sheamus and Kofi were making their entrances. Then he got quiet for a few minutes (probably while Vince reamed him) and then apologized. Punk on commentary is pretty awesome and should be done more often with injured talent.
 
[quote name='007']are we going to cover the fact that this would have to be considered some kind of stalking? The man is apparently paying (his own money, assumably) to travel all over the country to physically assault people. It's not as if someone is showing up to the IMPACT!Zone every week.[/QUOTE]

Well...to be fair, Cena's (1) wealthy and (2) unemployed (not to mention vindictive, I suppose), so the showing up around the country makes sense. Also, WWE isn't a stranger to that, as there's that one dude in the blue shirt and red (backwards! for the love of all things holy, backwards in 2010!) baseball cap who is always in the front rows at damn near every WWE show. Has been for years now. So it's not unprecedented.

[quote name='KaneRobot']"SHAMEFUL SHEAMUS! 6 DQ's IN A MONTH!" or "MIZ CONGENIALITY HE'S NOT!"[/quote]

:rofl:

Having Miz just go out there and waste Lawler like he "should have" would have been horrible, boring television.
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winner winner chicken dinner. it was a fun, back and forth, competitive wrestling match. that's what we clamor for, no? lord knows what we typically get on WWE programs are 3 minute horseshit matches with no meaning or followup, so a 10+ minute match (yes, with an *announcer*) for the title is fine by me. Doesn't have to be Daniel Bryan to be a good match, people. Some people can't be happy with what they get even when they get what they want.

And yes, that's *ME* saying that.

[quote name='HydroX']They should be treating the Cena angle like when Matt Hardy returned a few years ago after being fired. That was fucking awesome.[/QUOTE]

That angle worked because Matt Hardy was (1) a raving lunatic, (2) a cone of midcard vanilla ice cream on his best day, and (3) people believed he was genuinely shitcanned b/w of #1 and #2, along with a few stints in ROH before his comeback. It seemed legit, so when he returned it was shocking.

John Cena is the epitome of a "company man," so much so he makes the most pathetic, kiss-ass, when-you-say-jump-i-say-how-high-sir dude next to him pale by comparison. Nobody believed, for a fucking second, that Cena was gone.

Above and beyond all that, they didn't give him any time off the air; he was shitcanned on a Sunday, gave a 10-minute promo and did a run-in the next day, and did 2-3 run-ins last night as well. They're so scared of the potential ratings drop-off if they pull Cena from the air that they undercut the entire storyline here. If there's anything that tells you how WWE feels about taking risks in this era, Cena's presence on TV should reveal all. The company who thinks they make everyone into Sooperstarz™ is afraid to give up the golden goose for a few weeks.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']That angle worked because Matt Hardy was (1) a raving lunatic, (2) a cone of midcard vanilla ice cream on his best day, and (3) people believed he was genuinely shitcanned b/w of #1 and #2, along with a few stints in ROH before his comeback. It seemed legit, so when he returned it was shocking.

John Cena is the epitome of a "company man," so much so he makes the most pathetic, kiss-ass, when-you-say-jump-i-say-how-high-sir dude next to him pale by comparison. Nobody believed, for a fucking second, that Cena was gone.

Above and beyond all that, they didn't give him any time off the air; he was shitcanned on a Sunday, gave a 10-minute promo and did a run-in the next day, and did 2-3 run-ins last night as well. They're so scared of the potential ratings drop-off if they pull Cena from the air that they undercut the entire storyline here. If there's anything that tells you how WWE feels about taking risks in this era, Cena's presence on TV should reveal all. The company who thinks they make everyone into Sooperstarz™ is afraid to give up the golden goose for a few weeks.[/QUOTE]

True story. Just some wishfool thinking on my part. :cold:
 
Honestly, if I were allowed to go into the ring and punch DiBiazzzz, I'd buy a ticket to every single Raw event.

Hell, the little girl in the Miz promo got a louder reaction than he did!
 
[quote name='007']All-time greats? I recognize Guerrero, but who in the hell is that other guy?[/QUOTE]

I tried to type his name but whenever I post it just gets censored, like I'm typing f-bombs.

[quote name='pitfallharry219']I like how the announce team is only mildly aware that a match is happening in the ring.[/QUOTE]

I noticed that too and it was annoying how they were hyping a couple of NWO matches that almost certainly sucked, judging by the participants alone, while a top-notch match was happening.
 
Ok, so any guesses on who is announcing raw next week?

I saw CM Punk and Cole exclusively....until Punk recovers. And then Cole by himself.

Because no matter what storyline failure WWE throws at us...there ain't no way they're going to just let King sit there next week only sulking while Cole goes on with his spills! That would be hands down the most unrealistic shit in wrestling history...even more unrealistic than Mae Young's birthed hand!

Nah. If King is there next week, then WWE is basically saying that King at the end of the day is a punk bitch. No way a man would still be working with a company after his co-worker literally robbed him of his life long dream. That's like screwing your friend's girl and then expecting to be able to go over there next week to play video games and such.

For my sake...being a man...I can't see King sitting there next week. Maybe next month or so...but not next week! NOPE!
 
[quote name='strongpimphand']Ok, so any guesses on who is announcing raw next week?

I saw CM Punk and Cole exclusively....until Punk recovers. And then Cole by himself.

Because no matter what storyline failure WWE throws at us...there ain't no way they're going to just let King sit there next week only sulking while Cole goes on with his spills! That would be hands down the most unrealistic shit in wrestling history...even more unrealistic than Mae Young's birthed hand!

Nah. If King is there next week, then WWE is basically saying that King at the end of the day is a punk bitch. No way a man would still be working with a company after his co-worker literally robbed him of his life long dream. That's like screwing your friend's girl and then expecting to be able to go over there next week to play video games and such.

For my sake...being a man...I can't see King sitting there next week. Maybe next month or so...but not next week! NOPE![/QUOTE]


NO PLEASE NO COLE ANNOUNCING ALONE! That would be worse than chinese water torture.
 
It'll probably be Cole and King again. Remember the Alliance storyline? Heyman and Taz would commentate with JR and Cole on their respective shows as if nothing was happening at all.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Posted this in the vs forum this morning - lesson learned to not post before coffee.

The execution of the Cena angle is *baaaaad*. Like "I'm ashamed to watch it because I feel bad for the writers and the writers' mommas" bad.

Dude got fired and shows up for work still wearing kneepads and all his merchandise. If I got fired from Burger King, and showed up the next day (and the next and the next) wearing my BK uniform, I'd end up with a restraining order, not my job back.

Can you imagine what it's like to pack John Cena's clothes for a WWE tour? "Hmm, which jorts and purple t-shirt should I pack this week?"

Then there's the aspect where WWE is telling the fans it's okay to run in and attack dudes if they're just members of the crowd. Join Cena in defeating Nexus! Maybe you'll get a match at the TLC PPV out of it!

It's really, really sad storytelling, honestly. And it's either revealing of what simpletons the WWE writers are, what simpletons the WWE writers think the fans are (subtlety and nuance are for queers, not the WWE Universe™!), or what the McMahons think important narrative devices are (tell Juan Cena to "spic it up!")[/QUOTE]

I agree 100%. I was thinking about that while watching RAW...

Wait a minute! Something is wrong in my beloved WWE Universe! Mr. Cena was let ego and is no longer a WWE employee.. he can't just run into the ring and attack current employees like that! He should be arrested immediately! Maybe I should also run in and protect the WWE employees from this awful man. :\
 
[quote name='pitfallharry219']I like how the announce team is only mildly aware that a match is happening in the ring.[/QUOTE]

Really, the commentary is so fuckin' pathetic. No wonder none of those guys went to WWF. A top notch match featuring top notch wrestlers and all they're talking about is some NWO bullshit. :roll: Gee, I wonder why so many cruiserweights jumped ship?
 
See ya later, Husky!

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2010/1130/534290/randy-orton/
According to sources, Randy Orton suffered an injury to his knee on last week's RAW from Orlando, FL. This is the same night Orton lost the WWE title to The Miz after he cashed in his Money In The Bank briefcase. According to the source, Nexus member Husky Harris kicked Orton in the knee, thus causing the injury. Orton was kept off WWE weekend live events as a result of this. The injury caused quite the scare among WWE management as the last thing they need right now is another top star injured.
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I kept thinking while watching Raw and it being towards the end must mean we'd see a Randy Orton run in,in the main event,but no such thing and that would explain it I'd guess.
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Pros and Rookies for Season 4 of NXT
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* Daniel Bryan will be mentoring Derrick Bateman.
* Alberto Del Rio will be mentoring Conor O'Brian.
* R Truth will be mentoring Johnny Curtis.
* Chris Masters will be mentoring Byron Saxton (former ECW announcer)
* Ted DiBiase will be mentoring Brodius Clay.

Michael Cole was rumored as a mentor (seriously), but must have been pulled sometime this afternoon during a creative meeting. He was originally penned in to be the pro of Seth Rollins (Tyler Black).
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Posted this in the vs forum this morning - lesson learned to not post before coffee.

The execution of the Cena angle is *baaaaad*. Like "I'm ashamed to watch it because I feel bad for the writers and the writers' mommas" bad.

Dude got fired and shows up for work still wearing kneepads and all his merchandise. If I got fired from Burger King, and showed up the next day (and the next and the next) wearing my BK uniform, I'd end up with a restraining order, not my job back.

Can you imagine what it's like to pack John Cena's clothes for a WWE tour? "Hmm, which jorts and purple t-shirt should I pack this week?"

Then there's the aspect where WWE is telling the fans it's okay to run in and attack dudes if they're just members of the crowd. Join Cena in defeating Nexus! Maybe you'll get a match at the TLC PPV out of it!

It's really, really sad storytelling, honestly. And it's either revealing of what simpletons the WWE writers are, what simpletons the WWE writers think the fans are (subtlety and nuance are for queers, not the WWE Universe™!), or what the McMahons think important narrative devices are (tell Juan Cena to "spic it up!")[/QUOTE]Wrestling writing is usually embarrassingly bad, but that is just embarrassing. Why not make the story line that they fired John because Juan would work for less? Just go full retard.
 
So I just got done watching the DVR of Raw.

fucking Punk is fucking AWESOME at the announce table. As long as he has someone else there. I think with a little more time and practice he could do well alone -- except then he's got no one to bounce his smartassery on.

I'm interested in seeing how the commentary team works now... Lawler has apparently become Jim Ross, except he's never been nearly as good as Ross. I'm guessing Lawler makes a better straight man than Cole does?

It'll probably be Cole and King again. Remember the Alliance storyline? Heyman and Taz would commentate with JR and Cole on their respective shows as if nothing was happening at all.
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Well, except Heyman didn't cost JR the WWE title. :)

I think the best available option is to use all three, but I can't work out how Cole and Lawler should coexist, really. And it's not like Cole would quit to play mouthpiece for Miz, because Miz doesn't need it.
 
I'd actually pay to see The Most Interesting Man in the World wrestle someone. Even if he lost it would be...interesting.
 
[quote name='Clak']Wrestling writing is usually embarrassingly bad, but that is just embarrassing. Why not make the story line that they fired John because Juan would work for less? Just go full retard.[/QUOTE]

I like this idea.
 
Yeah, I mean just make it that Juan is John's cheaper Mexican counterpart or something. They can have a mock ICE raid or something when it's discovered he's illegal. Just really class it up.
 
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