L4D - The Sacrifice by Oct 5 1&2 - Gen. Discussion & Info -

I've only played through the first campaign but I have to say I was pretty disappointed that so many areas in the mall and hotel looked exactly the same and a few times I thought we had accidentally gone back to a previous area.
 
[quote name='woodcan']I've only played through the first campaign but I have to say I was pretty disappointed that so many areas in the mall and hotel looked exactly the same and a few times I thought we had accidentally gone back to a previous area.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. The levels are pretty long though, and Dark Carnival is awesome. Also, I played my first game of versus last night and I have to agree about the lag, it was almost unplayable.
 
Agreed that the lag was terrible. My live gold membership expired today, though, so i'm gonna hold off on a repurchase until i have money and i see in this forum that the lag is disappearing.
 
Reading this messages, I'm glad I'm holding off until BF for purchase. It's incredibly frustrating to deal with constant lag and game drops.
 
people who are complaining about lag must either have bad connections or have not tried hosting a game themselves. I've only been dropped once out of all the times I've play Versus, Campaign, and Scavenger and it was because the host lost connection. If you are having trouble with lag, just host a game. There is so much more depth to this game, the levels are great and well balanced. Dark Carnival has to be the best campaign, the rescue finale is amazing.
 
Two things from my first few hours with it:

1. Dead Center is just a really bad 'first' level to play. Not only is it really annoying (you know the part that I mean if you played it), but also extremely bland, like the poster above mentioned. I feel like they wanted to put a mall in, but ran out of time so they just re-used the same stuff over and over. I get that malls and hotels aren't the most exciting things in the world, but the mall also had zero personality. Afterwards, I played the first part of The Parish and was impressed... so I think it was a complete Dead Center problem.

2. Single player. I know these are games designed for a community expierience, but I usually like to go through the maps myself at least once. Well, that, and no one I know has the game yet and I abhor playing with randoms. Point is, it feels like there is a dramatic shift from the first game to this one, in terms of the AI. In the first game, I felt like I had 3 fairly competent companions, where as in this game... yeah, not so much. They barely keep up with me, let alone prove to be useful. I generally don't even go that fast through the level, but this is a game where you NEED to keep moving, and that's tough when you look back and see that your partners are way behind. That, and as someone mentioned, I feel like they really aren't on the ball with rescues... but that could also be because they're nowhere near me.

3. (I know, I said 2). This isn't a huge deal, but I think a big part of why the AI partners can't keep up is because they compulsively kill EVERYTHING around them, which is an issue since this game doesn't really have the 'rest' periods that the first one did. Even if it wasn't a horde, there seemed to be special infected showing up every 10 seconds or so. Point being, I think they've overused the special infected to the point where they aren't even special anymore.

Most of this could have just been my playthrough, but the game *is* fantastic... I just feel like they crippled single player. When I can't make it through Dead Center on normal by myself, there's an issue. It has nothing to do with skill, it's really the AI...
Dead Center: when the toy store alarm goes off and they just keep coming, the point is that you have to run... but if my AI partners don't keep up, I get absolutely raped upstairs, and they don't seem to follow until I actually need helped up. They just stop and fight, which in this scenario is the worst possible thing to do.
 
The game definitely is harder and the special infected are more abundant. I welcome the challenge but last night the Parish finale was driving my friend and I nuts. Getting through that with two AI partners is frustrating as hell.

We finally got to the rescue vehicle, but a Tank killed us and we didn't get credit for the level.
 
I think Single-Player is much easier with bots on Normal then with humans.. with that being said, this game is not meant for Single-Player, it is also not meant to be played without a mic. We spent a good 10-15 mins kicking out randoms with no mic or perhaps refused to talk into the mic until we found someone who did. I thought Expert in L4D1 was "easy" at times, so I love the increase in difficulty, though we've had zero problems reaching the finale and beating it when my regular team played together. We died at most twice in the finale, if that. Can't wait to try out the levels on Expert and Realism and have some real fun.
 
I'm with everybody else with lag, I hosted AND joined a match last night and it was just horrible. Mind you, I have a great Cable connection as well (20 MBS). Seems like by the time 1 am hit, it was a little less choppy for me. Hell I actually started a Campaign by my self and it chugged along laggy. I don't get it but what ever. It's not too bad, IMHO I would give it a 6.5 out of 10 honestly.
 
Mine is been ok to pretty good so far. Although my friend host most of our games with his crazy super cable.


Scavenger mode is really fucking fun.
 
Has Valve made any announcements about the dedicated servers becoming any better? I feel with the local option they are going to take their sweet ass time as we troubleshoot through this ourselves. I think I only got 1 or 2 successful, start to finish versus matches going. Campaign is a little easier.
 
Haven't heard anything but I seem to remember the L4D servers being kinda shitty for the past few months as well. Also, does anyone know if there is a matchmaking option? Like if we have four and want to find another group of four to play versus against.
 
Classic nerd rage reaction. If I can't defend the game I like, I'll just boot anyone who disagrees me.

Pathetic, all of you. You deserve the awful games you play and the ridiculous high price "indie" studios charge for them.
 
Some of the new stages are a bit annoying, especially the one with the storm. The special infected and tanks feel like they have been dumb down on expert. The real challenge is the parish finale.
 
[quote name='jd_james427']Classic nerd rage reaction. If I can't defend the game I like, I'll just boot anyone who disagrees me.

Pathetic, all of you. You deserve the awful games you play and the ridiculous high price "indie" studios charge for them.[/QUOTE]

Who is this guy?

Anyway, I've yet to take this game out of its shrink wrap yet because I haven't seen anybody on my friends list playing it yet. I guess that's the chance you take bringing a game out the week after MW2 hits.

I'm sure this game will have some legs on the PC but I think it's getting left behind on the consoles before its had a chance to flourish.
 
[quote name='RudyPants']Who is this guy?[/QUOTE]

Just another troll apparently. He must REALLY love this game alot. Anyways, I been playing single player till I actually find a good game where they don't boot me. I got booted twice from a versus game cause I was scoring the most points as a smoker. It's ridiculous they can vote you out that easily. That's my one complaint so far.
 
[quote name='RudyPants']Who is this guy?[/QUOTE]

I'm the guy you brought up the complete utter lack of narrative. Instead of debating my point, they all went into nerd rage and banned me instead. A proud moment for gamers everywhere.
 
I played a good 3 hours today with a bunch of friends on Normal. The lag online was flat out horrible as we had to change to the local settings which improved everything 10 fold. I like how the game adds in a ton of new things including the Boomer bile, defib., melee weapons etc etc etc. Maybe it was my first time playing a Left 4 Dead game in a long time but the difficulty for Normal seemed to me what hard should be. I am not complaining because I like hard games but it scares me how hard the realism mode is.
 
Yeah, I agree with Shipwreck in saying the AI Director has literally been thrown out the window in this game and everything no matter what is going to try to kill you. I Was playing with two of my other friends on normal after the stupid car lot part and I was at the point where I was seeing black and white, my other friend was in the red and my other friend was dead. In anycase climbed up the ladder and saw the ambulance with health packs and figured FINALLY the game has thrown us a bone! So we rush toward it immediatly and try to heal, but instead a goddamn Smoker comes out and drags me to my death. My friend tries to defend himself and instead a mob literally comes out of no where to finish him off.

Not complaining, but goddamn...
 
[quote name='bardockkun']Yeah, I agree with Shipwreck in saying the AI Director has literally been thrown out the window in this game and everything no matter what is going to try to kill you. I Was playing with two of my other friends on normal after the stupid car lot part and I was at the point where I was seeing black and white, my other friend was in the red and my other friend was dead. In anycase climbed up the ladder and saw the ambulance with health packs and figured FINALLY the game has thrown us a bone! So we rush toward it immediatly and try to heal, but instead a goddamn Smoker comes out and drags me to my death. My friend tries to defend himself and instead a mob literally comes out of no where to finish him off.

Not complaining, but goddamn...[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I feel you. Took me and a buddy over three hours to finish the carnival campaign on advanced... and we had to switch to normal for the last stand. For the shopping mall stage where you have to get all the gas cans, we actually ran into 4 tanks within a span of 3-4 minutes. Completely ridiculous. The only way to even hope to survive is if everyone is in the low 20-30 hp range. Once you're green, the AI thinks you're doing too well and hits the rape button.
 
[quote name='theloserboy']Yeah, I feel you. Took me and a buddy over three hours to finish the carnival campaign on advanced... and we had to switch to normal for the last stand. For the shopping mall stage where you have to get all the gas cans, we actually ran into 4 tanks within a span of 3-4 minutes. Completely ridiculous. The only way to even hope to survive is if everyone is in the low 20-30 hp range. Once you're green, the AI thinks you're doing too well and hits the rape button.[/QUOTE]

Hahahah so true. I was playing that part last night with a friend and man we were getting our asses handed to us. by pure luck we managed to beat it on our 3rd try. Also the section before it where you broke the window and had to make it to the room at the top with the switch I made it up there by the grace of god and the AI director throws a fucking tank in the room with me....game over. But I have to say I'm having an overall better experience with this game.
 
I bought this and found it to be amazing with a group of players you know(or even some people you meet on sites like these.) Versus is especially fun with a group that talks and works together. I didn't see anyone on here that has the game mention setting up some games with some CAGs to go through the campaigns together/play versus but if anyone is up for that, my gamer tag is Typical Knave. I'd love to have some more folks to play this with, it really shines the more social it is.

If anyone has already set up games or is looking for another player, feel free to add/message me too.
 
[quote name='soccerstud652']Is that a real playable rom?[/QUOTE]
From the video description... It will be available for free download on PC around January 4th, 2010.
 
I'm so sick of people whining that this game is "too hard". If you're playing on Advanced or Expert, it's supposed to be difficult. Some games have to have some sort of a challenge .. and this is one of them. If you can't cut the mustard, go back to Halo.
 
[quote name='HydroX']I'm so sick of people whining that this game is "too hard". If you're playing on Advanced or Expert, it's supposed to be difficult. Some games have to have some sort of a challenge .. and this is one of them. If you can't cut the mustard, go back to Halo.[/QUOTE]

:roll:

Explain 2-3 tanks in a row on EASY then. Explain multiple specials (spitter, charger, jockey) in a row, then a horde after them. The AI Director is severely gimped this time. I've gone from 100 health to instant death from being attacked by a smoker now. It's a bit absurd.
 
I've encountered 4 tanks on Normal. That shit is crazy, but it's still possible. Play with humans who aren't complete idiots and who will work as a team and the game won't be making you say "OMGZ SO HARDZ PLEAZ VALVE MAEK IT EAZY 4 MEE!!"

Also, if you are going from 100 health to instant death via Smoker, then obviously you aren't playing with even subpar teammates - and if you are one of the 3 people that just play with the AI, then yeah, I hear you - the Survivor AI is severely broken.

Edit: mtxbass1, if you don't have a decent player to play campaigns/realism/whatever else with, add me on XBL. I am always searching for more quality L4D players to randomly jump into games with. A lot of the friends I have on my friends list came from Left 4 Dead random campaigns or random versus mode games and we just hit it off or we knew we had a common goal: work as a TEAM to survive.
 
I tend to agree with Hydrox. The game isnt suppose to be easy by any means. You will die a decent amount of times even with good team work but that is how its suppose to be.

I 1000 L4D and I plan on 1000 L4D2 and I know its going to be a pain in the ass.


This is one of the few times where I would have to say, step your game up.
 
[quote name='HydroX']I've encountered 4 tanks on Normal. That shit is crazy, but it's still possible. Play with humans who aren't complete idiots and who will work as a team and the game won't be making you say "OMGZ SO HARDZ PLEAZ VALVE MAEK IT EAZY 4 MEE!!"

Also, if you are going from 100 health to instant death via Smoker, then obviously you aren't playing with even subpar teammates - and if you are one of the 3 people that just play with the AI, then yeah, I hear you - the Survivor AI is severely broken.

Edit: mtxbass1, if you don't have a decent player to play campaigns/realism/whatever else with, add me on XBL. I am always searching for more quality L4D players to randomly jump into games with. A lot of the friends I have on my friends list came from Left 4 Dead random campaigns or random versus mode games and we just hit it off or we knew we had a common goal: work as a TEAM to survive.[/QUOTE]

I'll add you when I get back on live. The survivor AI is extremely...dumb.
 
There were some hiccups in the difficulty in terms of special infected spawning, but I think my biggest gripe was the 'set off an alarm and keep fighting until you get to a certain point' segments. First day I played on normal, it was my friend and I, plus two AI... Dark Carnival... the run to the stadium... 10 times.

Whether the game is difficult or not, it shouldn't take two seasoned gamers (in general and in L4D) 10 times to get through one section. In my opinion, those parts of the game are just poorly designed. I really don't think it's even just sour grapes... they just aren't very enjoyable.

Moving on from that, the Director just seems way more varied in this one than the last. Having now dabbled in normal a few times, each and every time it's been starkly different. The first day I played, I was getting absolutely raped... special infected all around, borderline retarded AI partners, the works. Two days later, I did the exact same campaign on normal, and it was a cakewalk... very few special infected and, more importantly, seemingly competent AI partners.

So, that's the question... is the game just weirdly inconsistent, or is it taking into account how well you do to tailor the game next time you play?

(By the way, complaining or not, I'm really enjoying the game. I'm not as sold on it as the first one, but I don't regret purchasing it, and still feel compelled to play it, no matter how badly I do. Just throwing that out there.)
 
i have no problems with the game on normal it's pretty easy. expert is attainable as well we got through dead center after 20 attempts but guess what it's all about strategy if you keep dieing and you keep using the same strategy/guns/etc of course it's going to be annoying.

I thought L4D Expert was easy so i welcome the step up on level, im curious to see the people who find this l4d2 to be extremely difficult either played l4d1 or actually completed expert on it
 
[quote name='HydroX']I'm so sick of people whining that this game is "too hard". If you're playing on Advanced or Expert, it's supposed to be difficult. Some games have to have some sort of a challenge .. and this is one of them. If you can't cut the mustard, go back to Halo.[/QUOTE]

My problem is that advanced or expert literally becomes impossible if you are playing with anything more than one AI character. Also, the quality of most players that I have run into from public matchmaking has been very sub-par, sometimes even making the AI look like a professional fps player.

Advanced mode really is the way this game should be played. Normal is pretty much a joke, although the AI doesn't seem to be any softer when it comes to throwing mobs or special zombies, they just die way too fast. Tanks die in about 5 seconds, and my team managed to kill a witch using nothing but bats and guitars. I mean, come on!

On the other hand, like i said before, advanced mode is nearly impossible with the AI, and this becomes very obvious on campaign finales. Why does the game have to either be laughably easy (zombie genocide mode) or controller-throwingly hard? I don't mind dying a few times to complete a campaign, but when it just happens time and time again...damn.

Anyways, thats my excuse for whining. If you weren't directing that towards me, take me not under your notice.
 
When it comes to difficulty...I'm finding that, on normal with 3 AI's, I'm having a much harder time making it through campaigns than in the first one, on normal with 3 AI's (I prefer to do a runthrough or two of each campaign so I know where the hell I'm going). The AI in this game is just terrible. Recently, I was in Act 4 of the Parish, about 100 ft. from the saferoom, when a hunter pounced me, incapped me, and got me down to about 50 "incapped" health before someone killed him. However, the AI decided it would be better to clear the area of zombies before picking me back up, allowing me more than enough time to die before I got help.

The AI also seems like they weren't programmed at all to handle the rolling crescendos. On more than one occasion, I've wanted to just dash ahead, get to the objective, and shut it down, but the AI always takes its good ole' time...and anytime I am by myself, I become a prime target for a hunter/charger/smoker/jockey, and end up dead anyway. Especially in the Parish finale. I wanted to see if I could get the 3 minutes achievement, and by the time I got on the chopper, the AI looked like they were maybe half way across.
 
[quote name='007']

So, that's the question... is the game just weirdly inconsistent, or is it taking into account how well you do to tailor the game next time you play?

[/QUOTE]

The game is weirdly inconsistent. I found a lengthy article on the new AI Director 2 that I'll post here if I can find it again. Basically it's forcing you to run.

I've had several times where the chopper would come at the show, and my entire team would stay back and fight zombies while I was hanging out onboard waiting for them. So far only one other AI teammate has survived with me.
 
[quote name='theloserboy']My problem is that advanced or expert literally becomes impossible if you are playing with anything more than one AI character. Also, the quality of most players that I have run into from public matchmaking has been very sub-par, sometimes even making the AI look like a professional fps player.

Advanced mode really is the way this game should be played. Normal is pretty much a joke, although the AI doesn't seem to be any softer when it comes to throwing mobs or special zombies, they just die way too fast. Tanks die in about 5 seconds, and my team managed to kill a witch using nothing but bats and guitars. I mean, come on!

On the other hand, like i said before, advanced mode is nearly impossible with the AI, and this becomes very obvious on campaign finales. Why does the game have to either be laughably easy (zombie genocide mode) or controller-throwingly hard? I don't mind dying a few times to complete a campaign, but when it just happens time and time again...damn.

Anyways, thats my excuse for whining. If you weren't directing that towards me, take me not under your notice.[/QUOTE]

Well, there you go. This game is not meant to be played with the AI and I understand the incompetence of randoms because generally either they have no mic, seem to think that yelling into a mic is OK, or just out right suck, but you have plenty of guys here on CAG who would be more than willing to play
With that being said like the post above mine mentioned the AI is forcing players to keep moving on and thus getting rid of the whole camping thing. Hence why certain crescendos force you to turn on something and make your way around to turn it off again. My team so far has beaten 2 of the campaigns on Expert. I think we started each campaign something around 20-25 times. When one strategy didn't work, we moved on to the next one. This game has it's frustrating moments, sure, but if you were disappointed on how easy Expert was in the first L4D you more than welcome the jump on in difficulty in the sequel
So for those that are saying the AI Director is "gimped" no it's not, it's just forcing you to keep moving and not camp every 5 minutes.
 
Feel free to add me to the list of folks interesting in playing together. I'll try to get into this in the next few weeks but it's going to be hard to pry myself away from MW2.
 
I played the demo earlier with my brother. Very wicked fun. I love the melee weapons. I wish I could play with someone other than my brother (He sucks. Like, bad.), but I'm gold-less.
 
I am also in desperate need of decent L4D players. Finding a game where randoms don't quit halfway through a chapter is nearly impossible. I'd also like to get a decent versus team together. I'll try adding some of you as well.
 
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