Land of the free...So?

HowStern

HowStern

CAGiversary!
So, I was listening to alexisonfires new cd and here are the lyrics to one of the songs:

http://www.songlyrics.com/alexisonfire/sons-of-privilege-lyrics/

It got me thinking about something I've always wondered. We claim to be the greatest country in the world because we are free. When the country was first founded, and we were the only real free country, this was true. Now that most every other advanced country has adopted the policies of freedom that made us great, how can we still claim to be the greatest country in the world?

I imagine most people that frequent this forum will agree somewhat that we clearly aren't the best country in the world any longer.
If you do think we are though, why? Like the song says "it's time to justify our pride."
 
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For all it's problems and conflicts, I still think the US is one of the best countries to live in, our standard of living is pretty high compared to most countries. Out of curiosity, which country do you think is the best and why?
 
Personally I think Cheapy had a pretty good idea hitting up Japan. They have cheap healthcare, the longest lifespan, good education, awesome technology(bullet trains,etc), and the girls aren't so bad ;)
 
[quote name='HowStern']Personally I think Cheapy had a pretty good idea hitting up Japan. They have cheap healthcare, the longest lifespan, good education, awesome technology(bullet trains,etc), and the girls aren't so bad ;)[/QUOTE]

3,2,1, before someone starts mentioning japanese toilets and how they have more technology then the average american home (Even though the technology is less powerful then a pentium 1 and the toilets were originally developed by the french I believe).

What about awesome American technology? The semiconductors that powers japanese computers is made by americans, so are the software programming them. I always get annoyed hearing about how 'much more advanced' Japan is when they use technology made by americans.

The only thing you can give as a really good advancement are their cell phones, which blow away american and european. But americans have bigger homes and buy high powered computer equipment far more often. I suggest people saying Japan is so much more advanced to actually do a fair comparison of the two countries.

If you want to go by sheer high tech, by and largely americans buy far more semiconductors each year then japan, and most of it goes to desktop and laptop computers.
 
I would say the Japanese embrace more technology in their everyday lives then Americans, I also think they do a better job of implementing current technology rather then actually creating it. From what I hear, their k-12 education seems much better, but I think that American higher ed is better. I don't know too much about their health system, so I can't really comment on that.
 
[quote name='docvinh']I would say the Japanese embrace more technology in their everyday lives then Americans, I also think they do a better job of implementing current technology rather then actually creating it. From what I hear, their k-12 education seems much better, but I think that American higher ed is better. I don't know too much about their health system, so I can't really comment on that.[/QUOTE]

Well alot of that can be thanked on clueless executives in America. Toyota and Honda last because the executives actually thought ahead instead of the clueless idiots running america auto makers. The same can be said for executives at telcos and cablecos.

Americans would love high tech cell phones if the executives had a clue beyond what company they want to use their next golden parachute at.
 
[quote name='AdultLink']Well alot of that can be thanked on clueless executives in America. Toyota and Honda last because the executives actually thought ahead instead of the clueless idiots running america auto makers. The same can be said for executives at telcos and cablecos.

Americans would love high tech cell phones if the executives had a clue beyond what company they want to use their next golden parachute at.[/QUOTE]

I thoroughly agree with you, generally it's more about making money more then technological advancement at some of these companies. It seems that the Japanese are just more open to technology, no matter what the cost. I think they genuinely like technology, even it's silly and stupid like talking toilets.:)

Quick edit, one thing that does piss me off is our broadband. It's slow as hell and expensive as fuck compared to other countries. I know some people will make the argument that we have more land mass to cover, but come on, 60 bucks for 10mbps is just ridiculous compared to other countries.
 
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[quote name='HowStern']Personally I think Cheapy had a pretty good idea hitting up Japan. They have cheap healthcare, the longest lifespan, good education, awesome technology(bullet trains,etc), and the girls aren't so bad ;)[/QUOTE]

Aside from high cost of living (things you buy everyday are much more expensive) , comparative school (so much stress on having good grades), and small living space.

Even if you look at some of the other countries with high living standard, a lot of them are paying for it with much higher tax
 
@62t, well it's like the old saying goes "you get what you pay for." Also, you can't look at our economy and our deficit and say that those lower taxes and the road we took to obtain them aren't going to come back to bite us in the ass.

Now I just want to point out that I'm not saying the U.S. is bad and I'm not trying to make this a "my country is better than your country" argument.

I'm just wondering where our in-your-face "we're better than you" attitude toward other countries is coming from still? How can we possibly still harvest this pride? Not to mention it's holding us back from adopting new policies that could benefit us because we still so blindly believe we are the best.
 
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I think the fact that so many people try and immigrate here (legally and illegally) is a testament to how nice it is to live here. While there are other countries that are as "free" as we are, I think that this is still the only country where anyone can accomplish just about anything.
 
[quote name='XxFuRy2Xx']I think the fact that so many people try and immigrate here (legally and illegally) is a testament to how nice it is to live here. While there are other countries that are as "free" as we are, I think that this is still the only country where anyone can accomplish just about anything.[/QUOTE]

Lots of people go to other countries illegally all the time. Hell even Mexico has illegal aliens. Why are Americans the only ones that can accomplish this? Are Canadians/British/Indians/Koreans..etc. incapable of it?

Also seconded on teleco. prices. My mother in law in France pays 30 euro for over 100 chanels, unlimited calls +ncluded to the US and other countries) and a faster internet connection that I pay $50 for.
 
[quote name='HowStern']@62t, well it's like the old saying goes "you get what you pay for." Also, you can't look at our economy and our deficit and say that those lower taxes and the road we took to obtain them aren't going to come back to bite us in the ass.

Now I just want to point out that I'm not saying the U.S. is bad and I'm not trying to make this a "my country is better than your country" argument.

I'm just wondering where our in-your-face "we're better than you" attitude toward other countries is coming from still? How can we possibly still harvest this pride? Not to mention it's holding us back from adopting new policies that could benefit us because we still so blindly believe we are the best.[/QUOTE]

Eh, I think that's mostly due to people being resistant to change. We're certainly not the only country that suffers from that.
 
[quote name='XxFuRy2Xx']I think the fact that so many people try and immigrate here (legally and illegally) is a testament to how nice it is to live here.[/quote]
As homeland pointed out, lots of countries have large numbers of immigrants. Hell, according to Wikipedia, Canada "has the highest per capita net immigration rate in the world". 23% of New Zealanders were not born in New Zealand (holy fuck). 10% of the people in Spain are immigrants.
[quote name='XxFuRy2Xx']While there are other countries that are as "free" as we are, I think that this is still the only country where anyone can accomplish just about anything.[/QUOTE]
Y'know... this is one of those things that always makes us foreigners scratch our heads. I mean... okay, it would be very hard to be President of the United States if you live in Spain, sure. And, um... NASCAR driver? Actor... sort of?

...

Miniature American flag vendor?
 
[quote name='docvinh']Eh, I think that's mostly due to people being resistant to change. We're certainly not the only country that suffers from that.[/QUOTE]
Not really.
[quote name='XxFuRy2Xx']I think the fact that so many people try and immigrate here (legally and illegally) is a testament to how nice it is to live here. While there are other countries that are as "free" as we are, I think that this is still the only country where anyone can accomplish just about anything.[/QUOTE]
Nah, you can't really accomplish anything anymore. Maybe 50 years ago, and further back. The American dream has been steadily dying since the assassinations of the '60s. We used to be the land of opportunity. Now, many people are living paycheck to paycheck, and struggling to survive.
[quote name='HowStern']@62t, well it's like the old saying goes "you get what you pay for." Also, you can't look at our economy and our deficit and say that those lower taxes and the road we took to obtain them aren't going to come back to bite us in the ass.[/QUOTE]
I don't think the quest for lower taxes has really hurt us as much as other things.
Now I just want to point out that I'm not saying the U.S. is bad and I'm not trying to make this a "my country is better than your country" argument.

I'm just wondering where our in-your-face "we're better than you" attitude toward other countries is coming from still? How can we possibly still harvest this pride?
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We used to be the land of opportunity, the freest country on Earth. I think we want to return to that.
 
Wouldnt a country like Somalia be the most free country in the world? A extremely weak central gov't and assuming the tax rate is pretty damn low.
 
^heh yeah. I mean if your country has pirates is safe to say there's not many restrictions on the peoples behavior.

@fullmetal, yeah, true. It's definitely mostly the Govs way they choose to spend the taxes that is getting us fucked. I worded my previous post poorly. And exactly like you said "we used to be". It really is the tortoise and the hare. We started out ahead and now we are far behind but people still believe we're the best and are stubborn against adopting policies of other countries who have seemingly taken the lead.
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']Not really.

Now, many people are living paycheck to paycheck, and struggling to survive.

I don't think the quest for lower taxes has really hurt us as much as other things.
We used to be the land of opportunity, the freest country on Earth. I think we want to return to that.[/QUOTE]

We're not remotely close to struggling to survive, I think that's a serious overstatement. I would still rather live here rather then Somalia. Fullmetal, homeland makes a good point, is that what you want? I'm curious to know how far you want it to go.
 
I think a poll was taken and they determined Denmark to be the happiest country on Earth. Yeah, they have high taxes and a cooler climate but healthcare is paid for as well as college/university. Bascially, when you eliminate many of the day to day financial worries that we have, you allow people to truly live their lives instead of living to pay off debt.

I'm not saying that they don't have problems with debt but you have to admit that everyone here would be happier if they didn't have to worry about losing their house because they can't pay medical bills or student loans.
 
[quote name='depascal22']
I'm not saying that they don't have problems with debt but you have to admit that everyone here would be happier if they didn't have to worry about losing their house because they can't pay medical bills or student loans.[/QUOTE]


It also allows them to follow their dreams like opening up a business or working in the arts. Instead of being tied to a company for health care, it provides greater mobility.
 
[quote name='homeland']Wouldnt a country like Somalia be the most free country in the world? A extremely weak central gov't and assuming the tax rate is pretty damn low.[/QUOTE]
Anarchy does not equal freedom. Government was created to ensure the unalienable rights of the human being are protected. A lack of government means that the fundamental rights of a human being cannot truly be protected.
From the Declaration of Independence:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,
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[quote name='docvinh']We're not remotely close to struggling to survive, I think that's a serious overstatement. [/quote]
Oh, really? Those 17% of people who are unemployed or underemployed are not struggling to survive? Those people who are being foreclosed aren't struggling to survive?
I would still rather live here rather then Somalia. Fullmetal, homeland makes a good point, is that what you want? I'm curious to know how far you want it to go.
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I'm not an anarchist. I understand the need for government.
[quote name='depascal22']I think a poll was taken and they determined Denmark to be the happiest country on Earth. Yeah, they have high taxes and a cooler climate but healthcare is paid for as well as college/university. Bascially, when you eliminate many of the day to day financial worries that we have, you allow people to truly live their lives instead of living to pay off debt.[/quote]
That's a problem with our fiat money system, and our idea of buying things we can't afford, not that the government isn't paying for nearly everything.
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']
Oh, really? Those 17% of people who are unemployed or underemployed are not struggling to survive? Those people who are being foreclosed aren't struggling to survive?

I'm not an anarchist. I understand the need for government.
[/QUOTE]

Well, being underemployed is still better being unemployed, so I wouldn't necessarily include them. I don't want to make comparisons to other countries, but people aren't out in the streets starving yet. Regardless, I just wanted to hear how limited you wanted government to be. Yeesh, can't we have a normal discussion around here without everything being perceived as an attack?:)
 
[quote name='docvinh']Well, being underemployed is still better being unemployed, so I wouldn't necessarily include them. [/quote]
Working part-time doesn't pay the bills very well.
I don't want to make comparisons to other countries, but people aren't out in the streets starving yet.
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It's pretty damn bad in Detroit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL_YdRxBhzI
Regardless, I just wanted to hear how limited you wanted government to be. Yeesh, can't we have a normal discussion around here without everything being perceived as an attack?:)
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Government should be there to protect the rights of the people (Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness), and ensure that there is competition in the market.
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']Working part-time doesn't pay the bills very well.

It's pretty damn bad in Detroit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL_YdRxBhzI

Eh, maybe I have a different perspective, the article mentions people losing their 60k jobs, my parents together probably made a third of that when I grew up and we never starved. We went without a lot of things like cable and new clothes all the time, but I can see your point.

Government should be there to protect the rights of the people (Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness), and ensure that there is competition in the market.[/QUOTE]

Eh, maybe I have a different perspective, the article mentions people losing their 60k jobs, my parents together probably made a third of that when I grew up and we never starved. We went without a lot of things like cable and new clothes all the time, but I can see your point. Well, let's flesh out some this stuff, this is pretty broad. Give me some examples.
 
[quote name='docvinh']Eh, maybe I have a different perspective, the article mentions people losing their 60k jobs, my parents together probably made a third of that when I grew up and we never starved.
We went without a lot of things like cable and new clothes all the time, but I can see your point. Well, let's flesh out some this stuff, this is pretty broad. Give me some examples.[/QUOTE]
Here's the problem though, these people are going from being solidly middle class to unemployed, or having to work part-time at a low paying job. As a result of this, people are losing their health insurance, their homes, and having a hard time paying the bills.
Here's you examples, along with the video I posted: Foreclosures are still going up, unemployment and underemployment is at 17%. It's really hard to survive when you are forced into a low paying job, part-time job, or unemployed. Not having new clothes and cable only save so much.
 
I don't know how anyone can say any country is better than another, it isn't factual. You can have your opinion, but that's all it is, an opinion.

Besides that, i'm sure the US is far from the greatest to some people. I doubt most fundamentalist Muslims think it is so great.
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']Here's the problem though, these people are going from being solidly middle class to unemployed, or having to work part-time at a low paying job. As a result of this, people are losing their health insurance, their homes, and having a hard time paying the bills.
Here's you examples, along with the video I posted: Foreclosures are still going up, unemployment and underemployment is at 17%. It's really hard to survive when you are forced into a low paying job, part-time job, or unemployed. Not having new clothes and cable only save so much.[/QUOTE]

Don't forget Cleveland.

The problem is a worldwide recession that isn't just an American issue.

And in all honesty, having or not having government medical care isn't a sign of happiness if the medical system is screwed or the government is. Really, the strength of medical care goes into the medical care itself, something alot of these arguments forget. How good are those free school lunches if you also get free cockroaches?

With all of this said, I will shy away from saying which country is the best place to live, except to say that America leads in technology manufactuering (And would lead in production in our own country if we could kick out a few ceos and politicians...). The only good system would honestly be a communist utopia, actual communism where everyone has the same rights and abilities as everyone else.

But the only time a system like that would work is with extreme technology.
 
Isn't it just that whenever somebody says a country is the greatest it's basically because they're in it?

Nobody's actually tallying this shit up to come to a conclusion, it's more of an identity and ego thing.
 
[quote name='soonersfan60']If you thought a country was better, wouldn't you try to move there?[/QUOTE]

Is that in response to me? It's probably more about dissonance than actual assessment and movement. If you think your country is bad enough for whatever reason then you might move to one that you think is better if you're capable of doing so. If you do move, then obviously the country you went to is the greatest, otherwise you wouldn't have spent the time and effort to get there. If you don't move, then obviously the country that you're in is the greatest, otherwise you would move.

That's simplifying, but I doubt anybody thinks any country is "the greatest" by means of actual thought. Someone who would actually put out the effort to do that would probably come to a more ambiguous conclusion.
 
Nope, not directed at you. I was just thinking about this from both sides: the number of immigrants trying to get to the U.S. and other people pining about how so many other countries are better (often without having actually been to them) but without enough initiative to either go to their idea of a "better" country or actually do something to bring about change at home.
 
[quote name='soonersfan60']If you thought a country was better, wouldn't you try to move there?[/QUOTE]
Moving to another country can be a costly and difficult experience. The difference would have to be pretty damn significant to get most people to uproot, myself included.
 
[quote name='soonersfan60']Nope, not directed at you. I was just thinking about this from both sides: the number of immigrants trying to get to the U.S. and other people pining about how so many other countries are better (often without having actually been to them) but without enough initiative to either go to their idea of a "better" country or actually do something to bring about change at home.[/QUOTE]

Well, this slightly is off-topic. Like I said this isn't about what the best country is or isn't. But it's been previously pointed out that we don't have more immigrants than any other country. Canada actually has the highest percentage of immigrants according to an earlier posts links.


I think that America is the Al Bundy of countries. We got 4 touchdowns in a single game in high school and now look at us. We still claim to be the best because of those 4 touchdowns in a single game. Meanwhile, we're falling apart.


As or moving out of the U.S. it's really not so simple. How can you get the money to do such a thing currently? As fullmetal has pointed out. The media says "The gap between the rich and poor is widening" which is just a candy-coated way of saying "the middle class is dissappearing" which is a candy coated way of saying "EVERYONE IS GOING POOR."

I've heard thrust say it and foc joke about it but maybe we really do need to let the country cave in on itself so we can finally fix it right. Elect Sarah Palin, let healthcare break us, have everyones house foreclosed. Once we've finally shit the bed completely we will start over the right way. I'm starting to think it will be the only way it will sink in for some.
 
Being a 'good' country is about 90% public relations (in a marketing sense) and the resultant brain drain, 5% protecting your brains, 5% taking just enough from your brains to support your nonbrains without taking so much that your brains get mad and leave.

Bush was terrible, he went about 0/90/10... I feel Obama's got it right. Now that we're back on a 90/5/5 course we'll remain a great country.
 
[quote name='HowStern']Well, this slightly is off-topic. Like I said this isn't about what the best country is or isn't. But it's been previously pointed out that we don't have more immigrants than any other country. Canada actually has the highest percentage of immigrants according to an earlier posts links.


I think that America is the Al Bundy of countries. We got 4 touchdowns in a single game in high school and now look at us. We still claim to be the best because of those 4 touchdowns in a single game. Meanwhile, we're falling apart.


As or moving out of the U.S. it's really not so simple. How can you get the money to do such a thing currently? As fullmetal has pointed out. The media says "The gap between the rich and poor is widening" which is just a candy-coated way of saying "the middle class is dissappearing" which is a candy coated way of saying "EVERYONE IS GOING POOR."

I've heard thrust say it and foc joke about it but maybe we really do need to let the country cave in on itself so we can finally fix it right. Elect Sarah Palin, let healthcare break us, have everyones house foreclosed. Once we've finally shit the bed completely we will start over the right way. I'm starting to think it will be the only way it will sink in for some.[/QUOTE]
At this rate we'll be back to the feudal system in no time.
 
[quote name='HowStern']Well, this slightly is off-topic. Like I said this isn't about what the best country is or isn't. But it's been previously pointed out that we don't have more immigrants than any other country. Canada actually has the highest percentage of immigrants according to an earlier posts links.


I think that America is the Al Bundy of countries. We got 4 touchdowns in a single game in high school and now look at us. We still claim to be the best because of those 4 touchdowns in a single game. Meanwhile, we're falling apart.


As or moving out of the U.S. it's really not so simple. How can you get the money to do such a thing currently? As fullmetal has pointed out. The media says "The gap between the rich and poor is widening" which is just a candy-coated way of saying "the middle class is dissappearing" which is a candy coated way of saying "EVERYONE IS GOING POOR."

I've heard thrust say it and foc joke about it but maybe we really do need to let the country cave in on itself so we can finally fix it right. Elect Sarah Palin, let healthcare break us, have everyones house foreclosed. Once we've finally shit the bed completely we will start over the right way. I'm starting to think it will be the only way it will sink in for some.[/QUOTE]

Sarah Palin and healthcare? I think one of the main reasons the country is going down is when people like the above think that one political party is their friend, either republican or in stern's case, democrat.

If we had people who held politicians up to accountability and weren't so polarized to the point where they bend over for their politicians simply because THEIR MAN IS IN OFFICE, we'd be alot better off right now.
 
AdultLink, not sure how you perceived what I wrote but if you think I was saying Sarah Palin would be bad for the country because she's a republican , you're wrong. She would be bad because, well...I doubt anyone needs that explained.

I'm neither pro nor anti any party.

I hate democrats because they pussy foot around. Always succumbing to republicans wishes. I hate republicans because they have become a caricature of themselves and their values.
2 party system is a joke.
 
[quote name='HowStern']AdultLink, not sure how you perceived what I wrote but if you think I was saying Sarah Palin would be bad for the country because she's a republican , you're wrong. She would be bad because, well...I doubt anyone needs that explained.

I'm neither pro nor anti any party.

I hate democrats because they pussy foot around. Always succumbing to republicans wishes. I hate republicans because they have become a caricature of themselves and their values.
2 party system is a joke.[/QUOTE]

Alright, then I misjudged, I apologize. Usually when people today comment about Sarah Palin and healthcare, it's based around republican attacks. Same way that anything said about Obama by republicans is automatically an attack. The party system has reversed how it did things when Bush was in office. Whatever the left did the right now does, and whatever the right did the left now does. It's idiotic to say the least.

I will say this. Electing Sarah Palin would be nothing, because we are doomed anyway, the 2 party system will make it happen. Why? As long as people in power are polarized, and the people don't stand them up to accountability, it doesn't matter who we vote.

I will bet anyone 10 fuckING MILLION DOLLARS that if a republican gets in office in 2012 or 2016 and people are marching against them, the liberals will say they are part of them, and call them patriotic, and the republicans will call it unamerican.
 
[quote name='HowStern']2 party system is a joke.[/QUOTE]
Believe me when I say this: having >2 parties does not suddenly cure what ails you. Better? Worse? No. Just different.
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I can elaborate if needs be, but do you really want to hear my ruminations on the Bloc Quebecois and the NDP?
...
I submit to you that you do not.
 
^Ah, yeah I sort of meant that the way 2 parties operate in the U.S. is a joke. I should have wrote OUR 2 party system is a joke. The way they go about things.

I can definitely understand the number of parties not being the deciding factor of quality.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Moving to another country can be a costly and difficult experience. The difference would have to be pretty damn significant to get most people to uproot, myself included.[/QUOTE]

He speaks the truth. It usually takes a war, famine, or some other natural disaster to get someone to move to another country. Luckily, this country is so big that most people would just move to another state like the people from New Orleans.

I'd strongly consider a move to Scandanavia if push came to shove.
 
[quote name='HowStern']Personally I think Cheapy had a pretty good idea hitting up Japan. They have cheap healthcare, the longest lifespan, good education, awesome technology(bullet trains,etc), and the girls aren't so bad ;)[/QUOTE]
They also hate Black people. And Koreans.

We're still the best country in the world because it's one of the few that allows an entrepreneurial person to achieve with less punishment that in overtaxed European countries. We still have the technological advantages of being the largest consumer market in the world. Most technologies originate here or are developed here or are scaled, economically to be affordable to the rest of the world through our economy.

Oh yeah, there's that freedom thing too. We don't execute people for being non-believers, or murder their children, or mandate things like number of children you can have, or make you live in a certain area, or put you in jail for believing in a different god, or being a homosexual, or being a woman who wants to drive herself to the store. Personal, individual freedom is still greater here, politically, religiously, and proprietarily than anywhere else in the world.

In America, we still cling to the belief that we're entitled to keep what we make and earn and aren't obligated to submit to control by any outside authority. Some people around the world still find these ideas appealing. If they only knew the culture of people trying to destroy these ideas are half the people who enjoy them so much.
 
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Yes. America is great. Because... the police don't go around torturing religious minorities?

...

I think you're setting the bar of "great" a little too fuckin' low. The post before this had a helluva lot more zing in it, yeah?
 
[quote name='The Crotch']...

Yes. America is great. Because... the police don't go around torturing religious minorities?

...

I think you're setting the bar of "great" a little too fuckin' low. The post before this had a helluva lot more zing in it, yeah?[/QUOTE]

Dude, you don't get that kind of freedom in Canada.
 
heh. I wasn't even going to dignify his previous post with a response. Japan hates black people lol...Ku Klux Klan..Martin Luther King...800 James earl ray day jokes every year..Pretty sure that all happened in the U.S.
 
[quote name='homeland']Lots of people go to other countries illegally all the time. Hell even Mexico has illegal aliens. Why are Americans the only ones that can accomplish this? Are Canadians/British/Indians/Koreans..etc. incapable of it?

Also seconded on teleco. prices. My mother in law in France pays 30 euro for over 100 chanels, unlimited calls +ncluded to the US and other countries) and a faster internet connection that I pay $50 for.[/QUOTE]It's the scale of illegal immigration that I'm speaking of. They come here for a reason, because it's possible to make a decent life here.

[quote name='The Crotch']As homeland pointed out, lots of countries have large numbers of immigrants. Hell, according to Wikipedia, Canada "has the highest per capita net immigration rate in the world". 23% of New Zealanders were not born in New Zealand (holy fuck). 10% of the people in Spain are immigrants.

Y'know... this is one of those things that always makes us foreigners scratch our heads. I mean... okay, it would be very hard to be President of the United States if you live in Spain, sure. And, um... NASCAR driver? Actor... sort of?

...

Miniature American flag vendor?[/QUOTE] Yeah, the percentages may be higher, but it's only because the populations of countries like New Zealand are pretty damn small. In sheer numbers, I doubt there is any country than can even touch the US.

As for scratching your head about being whatever you want, my example would be to compare this country to a place like India. If I remember correctly there is a group of people who are incredibly poor and labeled as "untouchables" and it doesn't seem as if there is any way for them to leave that class. That just doesn't happen in the US. There is racism, but you won't have every opportunity shut down just because of what class or race you are.
 
[quote name='XxFuRy2Xx']It's the scale of illegal immigration that I'm speaking of. They come here for a reason, because it's possible to make a decent life here.

Yeah, the percentages may be higher, but it's only because the populations of countries like New Zealand are pretty damn small. In sheer numbers, I doubt there is any country than can even touch the US.

As for scratching your head about being whatever you want, my example would be to compare this country to a place like India. If I remember correctly there is a group of people who are incredibly poor and labeled as "untouchables" and it doesn't seem as if there is any way for them to leave that class. That just doesn't happen in the US. There is racism, but you won't have every opportunity shut down just because of what class or race you are.[/QUOTE]

India is not a developed nation. You guys are trying to say the US is a great country by comparing it to third world countries.

There are other industrialized nations who have caught up to or passed us in terms of quality of life. Americans still shit on them though with this arrogant unfounded pride. It holds us back as a nation because it keeps us from practicing some of their policies that would improve our own country.

Point of this thread went right over some heads. There's no debate we are better than third world countries. That's not what I said in my OP.
 
Honestly, since I don't have guns or anything, I think my life would be pretty much identical if I were living here in the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, the UK, well pretty much most of Europe. Provided I understood the language in all of them of course, since that would make quite a difference.

The US is nice, but I don't think it's necessarily the bestest most greatest country in the world. You have your good and bad in any country, but I don't think it would be much different living in any other western democracy, essentially.
 
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