Limited Run Games Thread - Nothing is Limited, We Make Everything Now!

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Please move all off-topic and non-game related discussion (such as reselling, or he who shall not be named) to the other thread below,

LRG Off-Topic Discussion Thread

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Props to Cheapy for keeping the OP updated. :3
 
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bojay1997 said:
Actually, both platforms exceeded the quantity they had already ordered (PS4 by 900 units and Vita by 75). The problem is that now they have to reorder the Vita and 75 is way below the Sony minimum, so they are going to have to order more and potentially take a loss on that title on that platform.
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That's only because this was an experiment where they changed it up after they had placed the order so that shouldn't even be taken into consideration.

Same numbers in a future scenario where the game wasn't ordered in advance, they would be placing an order of 6600 and having 25 copies left for promotions/replacements/etc. Having to eat a minimum order is a one time fluke as a result of a last minute experiment, not because preorders aren't going to work.

I'd offer to buy a another if I didn't already have 1 CE and 2 SEs each :p

 
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Yeah, having to place a minimum qty order for only 75 units is rough.

Some games are cool on Vita, but Y's looks like its a prime candidate for framerate slowdown.

 
Squarehard said:
From the sound of how many more they might have to take on, they might have to do both. :p
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Given that the smallest print size they have ever done starting with the first games and now convention exclusives, I'm guessing the minimum run is 1020 or something (minimum 1000 with box size of 30).

Lower limit I'd say no more than 500+?

There are worse games to end up with extra stock than a revered and long lived JRPG franchise. Couldn't have picked a better game to experiment with. They won't have any problems moving them in the long run and should they do preorders again it won't be split into two orders, invalidating any minimum order concerns.

I'd ROFL if they put them on ebay @ 35-40 and completely rekt the reseller market.

 
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csbaker-az said:
That's only because this was an experiment where they changed it up after they had placed the order so that shouldn't even be taken into consideration.

Same numbers in a future scenario where the game wasn't ordered in advance, they would be placing an order of 6600 and having 25 copies left for promotions/replacements/etc. Having to eat a minimum order is a one time fluke as a result of a last minute experiment, not because preorders aren't going to work.

I'd offer to buy a another if I didn't already have 1 CE and 2 SEs each :p
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Define "work". Preorders yielded just about the same amount of sales on Vita that the regular method would have. Moreover, there is a risk of chargebacks and other issues in the next few weeks that don't exist for the standard model. The PS4 was more successful, but again that success could evaporate if there are excessive chargebacks or other issues that arise as a result of delayed shipping. At the end of the day, this experiment proved that preorders might work in some circumstances, but that there isn't some huge underserved market out there for these games, just as LRG believed all along. In the end, LRG plans to utilize preorders where appropriate and where the developer agrees, but it's pretty clear that it won't be a regular thing.

 
CAiNiAC said:
Yeah, having to place a minimum qty order for only 75 units is rough.

Some games are cool on Vita, but Y's looks like its a prime candidate for framerate slowdown.
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Both PS4 and Vita versions are DotEmu ports.. so they both have issues, though Vita has more with the slowdown. I bought it on Vita since it seemed the best for collecting. Steam has the updated version of the game, DotEmu ported the old version to Vita/PS4 so there's not much of a reason for me to play it on PS4 or Vita honestly, unless you want trophies I guess.

 
bojay1997 said:
Define "work". Preorders yielded just about the same amount of sales on Vita that the regular method would have. Moreover, there is a risk of chargebacks and other issues in the next few weeks that don't exist for the standard model. The PS4 was more successful, but again that success could evaporate if there are excessive chargebacks or other issues that arise as a result of delayed shipping. At the end of the day, this experiment proved that preorders might work in some circumstances, but that there isn't some huge underserved market out there for these games, just as LRG believed all along. In the end, LRG plans to utilize preorders where appropriate and where the developer agrees, but it's pretty clear that it won't be a regular thing.
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No, it ended up with 75 more depending on what you believe the original size was going to be (thought this was 3000 CE + 5000 SE like the other two but now they are saying 6500 SE so...).

The minimum order size to cover the 75, while unfortunate for this one time experiment where the game was already ordered, is irrelevant in the grand scope of gauging if preorders are successful or not. A game that starts life as a preorder before any orders are placed would be placed in one order of 6575 not two of 6500 and 75.

Besides this was only ever going to be an option for higher demand titles anyway, not for every game.

It will definitely help alleviate some of the "add to cart" rush on those days where they put up 8+ small run games at once when 1 or more of them have attracted the wrong attention.

 
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csbaker-az said:
No, it ended up with 75 more depending on what you believe the original size was going to be (thought this was 3000 CE + 5000 SE like the other two but now they are saying 6500 SE so...).

The minimum order size to cover the 75, while unfortunate for this one time experiment where the game was already ordered, is irrelevant in the grand scope of gauging if preorders are successful or not. A game that starts life as a preorder before any orders are placed would be placed in one order of 6575 not two of 6500 and 75.

Besides this was only ever going to be an option for higher demand titles anyway, not for every game.

It will definitely help alleviate some of the "add to cart" rush on those days where they put up 8+ small run games at once when 1 or more of them have attracted the wrong attention.
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The plan was 6500 vita units and 7500 PS4 including SE and CEs on each. 75 units in a run of 6500 is a tenth of one percent which means that for the extra few hundred bucks LRG might make on 75 units (assuming it had been a full preorder and not the hybrid model used this time), it's not really a significant benefit beyond that which they would have had for just using the regular system. PS4 did yield a benefit, but again, the question remains at what cost. If they lost some scalpers/resellers going forward that could hurt sales on more niche titles. Similarly, there are some collectors who hated the idea of preorders and indicated they were out going forward. That doesn't even address the added hassle of dealing with holding funds for several weeks and the constant barrage of "where's my game" and "I want a refund". In short, there is no way to know the longterm impact of this experiment right now and the real impact may not been known for months or years down the line.

 
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I don't know how they structured their manufacturing. If they put in an order for 6500 like they originally planned, and have to request a minimum run of 1k copies to fulfill the 6575 sold, that leaves them with 925 unsold copies left over, which becomes a major failure.

Had they left it at 6500 like they planned and just said screw you loud mouth people who want pre-orders, they would have left 75ish people hanging.

 
bojay1997 said:
Actually, both platforms exceeded the quantity they had already ordered (PS4 by 900 units and Vita by 75). The problem is that now they have to reorder the Vita and 75 is way below the Sony minimum, so they are going to have to order more and potentially take a loss on that title on that platform.
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That might not be the case... They generally hold back 100-200 copies for lost in transit/broken copies.

 
zebular said:
That might not be the case... They generally hold back 100-200 copies for lost in transit/broken copies.
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I just paraphrased what LRG said on Twitter, that they would likely have to do an additional Vita order for the 75. They can't release their holdbacks considering that many Europeans use the hold shipping method for months at a time now.

 
bojay1997 said:
I just paraphrased what LRG said on Twitter, that they would likely have to do an additional Vita order for the 75. They can't release their holdbacks considering that many Europeans use the hold shipping method for months at a time now.
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I was wrong, just read it. Yep... Ys on Vita is the next One Way Heroics

 
elessar123 said:
I don't know how they structured their manufacturing. If they put in an order for 6500 like they originally planned, and have to request a minimum run of 1k copies to fulfill the 6575 sold, that leaves them with 925 unsold copies left over, which becomes a major failure.

Had they left it at 6500 like they planned and just said screw you loud mouth people who want pre-orders, they would have left 75ish people hanging.
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But that's not because preordering failed, that's because they made a preorder out of something that was already ordered. Big difference. That cannot but an excuse as to why preorders are bad when real preorders won't even have that particular problem.

 
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csbaker-az said:
But that's not because preordering failed, that's because they made a preorder out of something that was already ordered. Big difference.
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Yeah, this seems like it was a fools errand based on having to do a minimum for a handful of games, but I'm guessing LRG knew that going in to this, so hopefully they have a plan that makes it work for them, or at least a different strategy for future releases that may go this route. Either way, I wish them well.

 
Let's just call it what it was.

The pre-order system was neither a huge success nor a gigantic failure.

It just worked, and that's really all we should be putting into this approach for future bigger title releases.

 
Squarehard said:
Let's just call it what it was.

The pre-order system was neither a huge success nor a gigantic failure.

It just worked, and that's really all we should be putting into this approach for future bigger title releases.
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Agreed and hopefully this means the end of all these posts about how LRG is doing things wrong going forward no matter what approach they choose.

 
So can we all address the elephant in the room?  Now that another (minimum) of 75 vita copies need to be pressed, they are going to get dogged on with how long it's taking etc...  Literally any route they take there will be a camp of people that are happy and people that are bitching.  ***SPOILER ALERT*** The people bitching will always be louder.

 
zebular said:
So can we all address the elephant in the room? Now that another (minimum) of 75 vita copies need to be pressed, they are going to get dogged on with how long it's taking etc... Literally any route they take there will be a camp of people that are happy and people that are bitching. ***SPOILER ALERT*** The people bitching will always be louder.
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I'm thinking they have enough reserve copies to cover that 75... they might not make more.

 
csbaker-az said:
I'm so sure every collector wakes up in the morning thinking "boy I sure hate having a easy life and a complete set, I wish a few dozen nobodies would come along and make a bunch of hard to get games in small quantities in the region I'm collecting so there is a risk of having a permanent incomplete set so it can be more exciting. Even better if it's on a system that's been EOL and discontinued for several years".

Nobody? No? Didn't think so.
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I think you are confusing collectors with completionists and/or obsessive collectors. If the first thing you are thinking about when you wake up is whether you have a complete set or not maybe it's time to reevaluate your priorities a bit, or just accept that it's an absurd goal to begin with and therefore it will take a lot of money and time. You make so many posts here about these complete sets that it takes over every discussion.

For me I consider myself a player/collector and I think those LRG games are really neat to have physical copies of in my collection, even if I don't have every single one for all the platforms and variants. I like physical media and I don't really have time to follow all the great smaller video games that are released digitally. So thanks to these services I got to play games I really enjoyed like Firewatch, Cursed Castilla, Thomas Was Alone, Shantae and a bunch of other stuff that I had a great time with but would had missed out on otherwise.

Just saying that for every one of you who are annoyed by having a harder time getting a complete set, there are probably ten people like me who don't post a lot on the forums, are a lot more casual about video games but don't enjoy buying things digitally, and are exposed to some great titles that we otherwise would had missed out on. The more choice and competition there is on the market, the better it is for the majority of customers.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
CAiNiAC said:
Yeah, having to place a minimum qty order for only 75 units is rough.

Some games are cool on Vita, but Y's looks like its a prime candidate for framerate slowdown.
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I was always under impression that it was originally on the psp, just like most of the other games. Looked it up and it was made for the pc, which explains why everyone keeps talking about there being a slowdown on the vita version.

 
It's not a very CPU or graphics intense game. Too many "programmers" these days relying on high level "make my app" wizards in Java like languages that don't understand machine architecture and are scared to look under their JSON files.  No reason Vita should be chugging on Y's. Probably running on some PSN VM container from a PC/PS4 environment.

Same reason tic tac toe in a browser tab eats 8 GB ram. Gross.

Fairly good chance Ys is PS4/PC native last minute port running some multi platform intermediate interpreted language VM that the Vita just doesn't have the overhead to absorb so the game takes 10x the power than it needs to.

 
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csbaker-az said:
Oh JFC...

Wait.. Germany? So PEGI releases and not mandatory for US collections like Signature Edition Games. Whew. Nvm. Carry on.
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They are 100% based in Germany. In order for their releases to be pressed by Sony and delivered to Germany, they will need a USK rating. USK ratings are hideous and take up a fifth of the cover art. It's not surprising they left that off the mockup.
 
Doomstink said:
They are 100% based in Germany. In order for their releases to be pressed by Sony and delivered to Germany, they will need a USK rating. USK ratings are hideous and take up a fifth of the cover art. It's not surprising they left that off the mockup.
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I've noticed that with SEG and PA as well, they conveniently delete or obscure the logos with the art book or something.

The logo itself doesn't bother me so much as consistency of region. I prefer US / NA games as that's what the other 99% of my retail games are. Others are nice but are optional from a collection standpoint. Even as a crazy completionist I still draw the line at native region and will import for fun to rather than necessity.

As you guys know too well part of the reason you are successful where others fail is US / NA is by far the most desirable and the largest collector market. I don't foresee LRG having any real competition that isn't producing US / NA releases.

 
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They have to pay all you guys too. Wait, you aren't employed by LRG... jeez where are you getting all this insider gold then?!
 
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csbaker-az said:
It's not a very CPU or graphics intense game. Too many "programmers" these days relying on high level "make my app" wizards in Java like languages that don't understand machine architecture and are scared to look under their JSON files. No reason Vita should be chugging on Y's. Probably running on some PSN VM container from a PC/PS4 environment.

Same reason tic tac toe in a browser tab eats 8 GB ram. Gross.

Fairly good chance Ys is PS4/PC native last minute port running some multi platform intermediate interpreted language VM that the Vita just doesn't have the overhead to absorb so the game takes 10x the power than it needs to.
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That, and the port was done by DotEmu.. they have a reputation for doing lazy ports. Really, for any other game I would have avoided buying any ports by DotEmu, but I make an exception for Ys because it's a great series.

 
So, regarding preorders: they worked out fine here - but I feel like preorders dampened demand. In future, we'll only use this for big games and even then, only when the developer wants to take this route. It's not a fit for every release.
 
Doomstink said:
So, regarding preorders: they worked out fine here - but I feel like preorders dampened demand. In future, we'll only use this for big games and even then, only when the developer wants to take this route. It's not a fit for every release.
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I really hope Cosmic Star Heroine goes this route. Was there ever another update about compressing the game to fit the Vita cart? Last I saw was that it appeared to be working, but then the game still has not been released.

 
Doomstink said:
So, regarding preorders: they worked out fine here - but I feel like preorders dampened demand. In future, we'll only use this for big games and even then, only when the developer wants to take this route. It's not a fit for every release.
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I think that's a really reasonable approach. Kudos for being willing to take a risk and really give it a try.

 
trinken wir said:
I really hope Cosmic Star Heroine goes this route. Was there ever another update about compressing the game to fit the Vita cart? Last I saw was that it appeared to be working, but then the game still has not been released.
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It was going well the last I remember seeing any info posted, but that was a month or two ago. But no news is good news for this game. LOL

 
Doomstink said:
So, regarding preorders: they worked out fine here - but I feel like preorders dampened demand. In future, we'll only use this for big games and even then, only when the developer wants to take this route. It's not a fit for every release.
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Yeah don't think anyone here was expecting this to be the case. Just the high profile WB / NT / Ys type releases that get the whole world's attention and risk shutting out LRG regulars.

 
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I doubt they do another order for 75 copies. They already have copies set aside to replace damaged games, etc and they can take the 75 from there. If for whatever reason their reserves are depleted then they may be forced to do another order but I don't see why they would do another order for 75 copies off the bat.

 
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Green Card200 said:
I doubt they do another order for 75 copies. They already have copies set aside to replace damaged games, etc and they can take the 75 from there. If for whatever reason their reserves are depleted then they may be forced to do another order but I don't see why they would do another order for 75 copies off the bat.
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They've said they're doing another order on Twitter already.

If they eat through their replacement stock, and end up not having enough, they're going to have to order more anyways, and that would be an even bigger hassle as customers waiting on replacements will have to wait even longer for replacements to be ordered and delivered.

Probably just the safest option to order more to be safe, and tie up loose ends sooner rather than later.

 
I welcome the first come first serve method of delivery again. Thats the way it ahould be for limited releases LRG. At least you know you'll make a profit rather than having leftover inventory. But in the end do what makes you money, even if people chew you out on twitter. Remember its your business not theirs.
 
https://twitter.com/eastasiasoft/status/902376092261957635

This one pisses me off a bit because the orange cover looks very similar to the LRG one.
 
Dashey10 said:
https://twitter.com/eastasiasoft/status/902376092261957635

This one pisses me off a bit because the orange cover looks very similar to the LRG one.
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The soundtrack is nice but definitely not double dipping on Rive. I'm happy with my LRG version! It will be interesting to see how well this sells considering the LRG version took a decent amount of time to sell out (if I remember correctly).

 
Josef said:
The soundtrack is nice but definitely not double dipping on Rive. I'm happy with my LRG version! It will be interesting to see how well this sells considering the LRG version took a decent amount of time to sell out (if I remember correctly).
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I can confirm that yes, this took a while to sell for us. This Play-Asia version will likely sell very, very, slow as I believe we met Western demand for the title.
 
@Doomstink - I asked before, but it was just before Ys Origin went on sale, so it probably got lost in the shuffle, but considering you've released a couple DotEmu games so far, any chance of releasing Windjammers?

 
So, no more preorders unless a dev demands it.  I had a feeling LRG's best selling game ever wouldn't be enough for them to push devs to consider it for the higher profile games.

 
nightc1 said:
So, no more preorders unless a dev demands it. I had a feeling LRG's best selling game ever wouldn't be enough for them to push devs to consider it for the higher profile games.
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Well, they would have pretty much sold the same amount without the pre-order, so as long as the proper qty's are chosen before hand, I really don't see any issues with having a pre-order system, or not. The CE qty where still fixed, and those where offered long enough to where anyone who wanted it, should have gotten one.

Having a release across two systems, and at those large qty's, I personally don't see the point in having pre-ordering. As the only time it would be needed is when the qty's aren't enough, and that's never really known until after the fact. Although many here stated as much for NT & WB before hand. Offering the pre-orders for Ys was a reactionary response to those last two games, which where really an entirely different situation, as they where offered only on PS4, and both where low qty issues. Ys was very different, so I don't know how accurate any data would be, as it really didn't mimic the past two releases where this kind of program could have actually helped.

 
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