Limited Run Games Thread - We only promise our NES games will work, not your console

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I'm having the same problem with my copies of Stealth. This is all the info when I try and track the games[attachment=24877:IMG_0342.PNG]
 
Too expensive for the physical copy of that old Sharin game.
I'm actually a little shocked at how much they're saying localization costs... $72K? I know it's a lot of text and I know it's more than just using Google translate but that still seems like a lot.

 
I'm having the same problem with my copies of Stealth. This is all the info when I try and track the games IMG_0342.PNG
Same with mine. Hopefully Doomstink can respond and let us know what's going on. This seems to be happening to a lot of people. Even on Twitter they acknowledge the issue but I haven't heard a reason or solution.
 
Do you want us to open tickets for this missing Stealth Inc. issue, or do we not need to since you are looking into it?
Yes, please open tickets so we can boil down when these were picked up. USPS uses contractors during this season and it sounds like one royally messed up.
 
I'm actually a little shocked at how much they're saying localization costs... $72K? I know it's a lot of text and I know it's more than just using Google translate but that still seems like a lot.
Part of the cost is related to the voice acting. They have to license the Japanese Voices and some of those could be under strict contract.

From an XSEED Rep

Can’t help you with the porting part, but it costs a pretty penny to be sure.

For localization stuff, here’s a breakdown from an older post I did on this with some more details added. Obviously, no actual dollar amounts can be given here because without an actual project with all the details, you can’t estimate the costs, and it’d be bad form to share that kind of info anyway, so only the most general of ballparks or thoughts will be listed here.

This topic comes up often enough that I really just want people to be aware of all the work you actually need for this kind of thing. Should anyone attempt a kickstarter like this, these are some of the things they'd need to consider.

Please be sure to check out some of the links at the bottom as well.


Some of the Costs Associated w/ Localization (Digital-only*):

*Costs associated with the actual printing, approval, design, delivery, cost of shelf space, advertising , etc. aren’t something I know the exact $ specifics of, but they are very significant.



  • Licensing a game & dev team time: Dev time is money

    The right to publish a game in another territory can cost some serious money. What you’re paying for here are the distribution rights, licensing fees, and for the team to not only implement your text but also work with you through the QA process to make adjustments. Even modestly-sized projects can last many, many months, so the dev team needs to be secured for putting the text in and then later on for builds/inserting fixes even if QA comes a month or two later down the line after implementation.

    Programming work extras: English menus and graphics also have to be redone, so it’s not just a matter of handing over English text and them copy/pasting it somewhere. Artists often have to work to retool this stuff before it can be added in. Programming-wise, internal codes have to be switched to add service ID, communication IDs, windows have to be adjusted to accommodate the translation because English takes up more space, etc.


  • Translation & Editing: Less people is better

    This includes not just text, but digital manuals as well which adds to time/design costs. <-- don’t forget.

    The size of the game and deadline sets your team numbers, basically. At XSEED we prefer to have as small a team as possible to ensure consistency of text and tone, but if the game is huge and the deadline is tight, we've thrown as much as 3 translators and 2 editors at titles before. Obviously, the more cooks you have in the kitchen, the greater the chance of fuck ups, so ideally you want less people. Just hiring 5 translators to bang out your text does get it done fast, but then you have to sort those 5 different styles into a single game. It’s not pretty. Less is more here and throwing more people at it tends to make it worse.

    Extras: Having a proofer go over the edited files would be a useful addition after the editing phase, but that’s considered extra. Usually it’s up to editors to sort that out and then QA to catch misses.


  • Voice Recording: Studio + actors + directors + producers = oh my

    Recording is a huge part of the process even if it only takes a month or so to wrap up.

    Work needed:

    Script – You’ll get the Jpn original, but have to add in the English equivalents. Often, there are time limits on the length of the Japanese voices that have to be matched in-game. This is for game size reasons, scene length, lip flaps if the scene is animated, etc. Restricted length adds time to recording, so your recording costs will go up accordingly.

    Work on scripts can also only be done towards the end or after editing has been finished because you need in-game lines for the script so that they match the internal text. One of the great joys of recording is finding out in the studio that a line in game is entirely too long for the voiced file and you have to edit/rewrite on the fly. This is often caught when you’re working up the script (as editor and then manager I used to do these), but there’s always something. Always.

    People needed:

    Sound Technician – The sound board jockeys. They capture the lines, fix the quality, and handle all the voice files. (*part of the overall studio cost you’re paying for)

    Actors – Maybe you have an awesome budget and can afford one VA per character, but this usually isn’t the case. Most VAs can expect to voice at least 2-3 characters (1 main, 2 NPC, etc.) in a game for smaller budget titles. (*part of the overall studio cost you’re paying for)

    Director – This is usually part of the overall studio deal. These guys and gals run the show while you’re there and direct the VA/ensure pace is being met so that the schedule holds. Some companies have their own personnel for this, so it’s not a certain cost (though usually). I did this when the director was also a VA in the game or they had some schedule conflicts. (*usually part of the overall studio cost you’re paying for)

    Producer/Company Rep – It’s imperative to have someone who knows the text (usually the editor of script maker) attend recording. They’re there to explain characters, context, clarify lines, rewrite, direct, and basically approve the takes as they come in. Sure you can just hand off your script to a studio and say ‘go nuts’, but it’s your funeral. (*not part of the studio ‘budget’.)

    Translator – Not sure for other companies, but we usually send 2 people to recording, and one of them is a Japanese speaker. Most everyone at XSEED speaks or reads Japanese (to varying degrees), but when you’re uncertain of a line it’s best to check in with a native speaker to make sure you have the original intention of the line correct. (*not part of the studio ‘budget’.)


    Notes on subtitles-only (because people think they can just cut costs by not recording): You say that Japanese-only is fine for you, but a publisher loses a significant chunk of sales if there is not an English dub. Is it worth it for the company to release a game with so much of their potential audience written off? Not usually. There are exceptions, of course (companies with smaller expectations for one), but it can have a huge impact on your sales/audience reached. If a company were aiming for a dual release (digi and physical) then a dub is almost always needed because it's difficult to get store placement otherwise.

    And, as others have said, the voices are not often even licensable for an NA/EU release.

    Please see Tom's posts below for more info.


  • Ratings: This shit ain't free, takes time to prepare and submit, and it is required if you want to release in these territories.

    ESRB (US Rating)
    PEGI (EU Rating)
    UK Rating
    USK (German Rating)
    Aus/NZ Rating
    DJCTQ (Brazilian Rating) You'll need a physical proxy in Brazil currently to even get this.


  • QA: Internal, external, text, compliance, etc.

    Depending on the size of your game and the complexity (multiplayer? DLC? Branching storylines?) you’ll need at least a month, usually way more for this. Cost-wise, unless you have an internal team that knows all the latest compliance rules and how to test them, you’ll be hiring one of the outside QA companies to make sure all your region settings are correct, the ratings are set correctly, people aren’t sticking to buildings and exploding (this has happened), etc.

    Your internal team will usually comb for text bugs, check manuals, do playthrough, etc.
    QA can be hell, and skimping on costs here always bites you in the ass later.


  • Submission: Time is money

    Submitting to first party doesn’t cost you a fee, but it is something that takes a lot of prep and checking to make sure it’s done right and then you have to babysit it as it goes through and address all bugs that come up, changes you’re asked to make, and sometimes have a spirited back and forth on things you think deserve to be waived. Sometimes for the more complicated and contentious bugs, you’ll have people from the first party in other territories weighing in as well, so your ‘bug’ could take weeks to sort as everyone has their say. Failing master will cost you more time and therefore more money because the dev team (who probably thought they were finished) now have to hang around and fix whatever the issue is and then wait again for resubmission to run its course.


  • Marketing: Plans, people, designers, ad space, websites, etc.

    Most people think commercials or GameStop store cardboard cut outs and promotions when they think ‘marketing’ for games, but a lot of the work includes stuff like the website (from scratch and written up by your internal team or translated and touched up?), press blasts, sending out review copies, arranging/doing Q&As, interviews, etc. Everyone seems to take this stuff for granted, but it takes people and effort and therefore more time and money. Granted, big money comes into play when you do ad placements, banners, and the like, but just depends on your budget, really.


Other localization considerations:

EU Release Work (a la me (XSEED)) - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=99968774&postcount=83
Voice Rights and Availability (a la Tom (XSEED))- http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=525009%29
General Trials and Tribulations of Publishing Localized Games (a la Hatsuu (XSEED)) - http://hatsuu.tumblr.com/post/55401774233/why-video-games-take-so-long-to-publish
Problems with Using Kickstarter for Localization: One POV (Wired article - XSEED) - http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2012/02/kickstarter-blindside/all/
Very Detailed Info on the Work That Goes Into the Text w/ Charts and Examples (a la Hatsuu via Kotaku) - http://kotaku.com/getting-jrpgs-out-in-english-is-harder-than-you-think-1441094168


tl;dr - A fucking lot.
 
My Stealth Inc. was due out for delivery today. I checked last night and it said it was in Jacksonville, which is my city. But today it's gone to Chicago.

I'm confused.

 
I remember when a guy somewhere else in Texas tried to send me a game. It went up the I-H35 corridor, landed in Minneapolis, Minnesota for a couple days, then came back down. Got it almost 2 weeks after expected delivery. 

 
Thanks for the responses. I've actually never had this happen, that I know of.
If I checked some of the orders I've shipped out in the last few weeks, I would guarantee there are at least a few this has happened to(maybe more).

But I also clearly label my packages, and write the destination zip in HUGE black sharpie, as to lessen any potential issues. The sorting line is based on the zip, so if that is hard to read, or mistaken for something else, it will go some place else. But even with my added security, you still have mistakes made, it's human to error, and at the volume running this time of year, 2 weeks ain't that bad really.

 
Received the 2 Shantae games and blind boxes, but didn't receive any of the stickers or game cards that go with Shantae.  Is this normal for the PS4 releases?

 
Received the 2 Shantae games and blind boxes, but didn't receive any of the stickers or game cards that go with Shantae. Is this normal for the PS4 releases?
The blind box games didn't come with cards or stickers, at least mine didn't, so I assumed it was across the board.

 
The blind box games didn't come with cards or stickers, at least mine didn't, so I assumed it was across the board.

I think he was referring to the Shantae games from BF that weren't blind box.
Yes, yes I was. Guess I could have been more clear? I assumed the blind boxes wouldn't come with anything since they're random, but the Shantae games were still "a normal release" that I was hoping would come with the extra goodies. They're also the only PS4 LRG games I've purchased so yea

 
I was all set to kickstart 40 bucks in for that vita game but then it popped up 9 bucks shipping and I backed out.
Same here. After reading Olengie's post on how much it costs to translate a game, I said fuck it and wanted to back it. But charging $9 to ship a game is ridiculous.

 
Yes, yes I was. Guess I could have been more clear? I assumed the blind boxes wouldn't come with anything since they're random, but the Shantae games were still "a normal release" that I was hoping would come with the extra goodies. They're also the only PS4 LRG games I've purchased so yea
I bought Octodad PS4 on BF, and it did not come with a card or sticker.

 
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Just got my Stealth Inc for Vita + soundtrack.  My 2 Vita blind box games also came in.

First one I opened was Octodad (which I didn't have so that's a win for me)

Second one (I was prepared for One Way or Thomas)...

BREACH & CLEAR (which I also didn't have)!

 
Just got my Stealth Inc for Vita + soundtrack. My 2 Vita blind box games also came in.

First one I opened was Octodad (which I didn't have so that's a win for me)

Second one (I was prepared for One Way or Thomas)...

BREACH & CLEAR (which I also didn't have)!
Pic, or lying, but then again, you could already own it anyways, and provide a pic to go along with the story anyways.

But yeah, if you really got B&C, you'd probably be more excited, instead of that underwhelming surprise. :D

Either way, PIC OR LYING! ;D

 
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Just got my Stealth Inc for Vita + soundtrack. My 2 Vita blind box games also came in.

First one I opened was Octodad (which I didn't have so that's a win for me)

Second one (I was prepared for One Way or Thomas)...

BREACH & CLEAR (which I also didn't have)!
Congratulations! That's amazing.

 
Pic, or lying, but then again, you could already own it anyways, and provide a pic to go along with the story anyways.

But yeah, if you really got B&C, you'd probably be more excited, instead of that underwhelming surprise. :D
Well, like you said a pic doesn't really prove anything other than that I have a copy, but I can toss one up when I get a chance. I will say that the bar code on the back cover has a hole punched through it (Octodad did not).

 
Awesome, you hit the Christmas lottery for sure, congrats. I knew someone around here would get one.
Thanks to all :) I missed out on Xeodrifter Vita that night, and on the Stranger's Wrath bundle both times (too slow in my old age I guess), so this was a great get from a blind box!

 
Well, like you said a pic doesn't really prove anything other than that I have a copy, but I can toss one up when I get a chance. I will say that the bar code on the back cover has a hole punched through it (Octodad did not).
Interesting... wasn't that a thing back in the PSP days for marketing/review copy of games? Is that still a thing?

I feel like I used to see tons of hole-punched PSP games on eBay and stuff. Don't seem to see many for the Vita.

 
Thanks to all :) I missed out on Xeodrifter Vita that night, and on the Stranger's Wrath bundle both times (too slow in my old age I guess), so this was a great get from a blind box!
You could probably sale the B&C and use the funds to cover the 2 games you missed out on, but technically I would keep the B&C, as that is the most valued game LRG has released. But just a suggestion as you could get 2 games for the 1.

 
Interesting... wasn't that a thing back in the PSP days for marketing/review copy of games? Is that still a thing?

I feel like I used to see tons of hole-punched PSP games on eBay and stuff. Don't seem to see many for the Vita.
It still happens for Sony published games, although in the last few years I'd say that most other publishers don't even bother to bar code punch, at least based on the press copies I have received. LRG has been concerned about it because generally if their games are showing up on Ebay with a punchout, it means it came from a Sony employee as I don't think LRG generally punches their press copies. I wasn't aware LRG was selling punchouts as this is the first I have heard of someone getting one from anywhere other than Ebay.

 
Interesting... wasn't that a thing back in the PSP days for marketing/review copy of games? Is that still a thing?

I feel like I used to see tons of hole-punched PSP games on eBay and stuff. Don't seem to see many for the Vita.
It's definitely still a thing, just not as common nowadays as it's a different time.

There's so many trade in options now in which hole punching the bar code doesn't really account for anymore.

Just because there's a hole punch in there, doesn't really guarantee it won't be sold or returned for a profit.

LRG is probably the only ones that are actively trying to prevent with listings on eBay for their titles that are like that, but there's only so much they can prevent, and prove to really stop it.

But yeah, it's still a thing, and it's actually been a thing even back then in the olden days. Didn't you ever get Sonic the Hedgehog cartridges that had "Not for Resale" labels on them? That was pretty much the solution back then. But instead of spending extra money to print a separate label, it's easier just to make a bunch of the same copies, and then hole punching the bar code. Times have changed, relatively speaking. :D

Certainly not as common as it used to be since most developers and publishers just say screw it, but it's still around. My brother in law is a reviewer, and gets boxes every year, and each year there are less, and less games that have hole punches in the UPC. Just too hard to really prevent people to resell this stuff in this age.

It still happens for Sony published games, although in the last few years I'd say that most other publishers don't even bother to bar code punch, at least based on the press copies I have received. LRG has been concerned about it because generally if their games are showing up on Ebay with a punchout, it means it came from a Sony employee as I don't think LRG generally punches their press copies. I wasn't aware LRG was selling punchouts as this is the first I have heard of someone getting one from anywhere other than Ebay.
Dang, you beat me to it while I was typing a wall of text. Curse you! :eek:

And yeah, I'm surprised they sent out that B&C copy to someone, but it was probably just the very last ones they had, and they figure the person who got it wouldn't complain anyways since it was a blind box. I mean, I certainly wouldn't have. :D

 
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Thanks to all :) I missed out on Xeodrifter Vita that night, and on the Stranger's Wrath bundle both times (too slow in my old age I guess), so this was a great get from a blind box!
I have a spare xeodrifter and oddworld stranger's wrath that I can trade towards breach and clear. Will add more stuff on my end to even it.
 
I have a spare xeodrifter and oddworld stranger's wrath that I can trade towards breach and clear. Will add more stuff on my end to even it.
Thanks, not really looking to trade at this time. If I ever decide to get crazy and start tracking some of the older releases down, I'd kick myself for getting rid of it! And I did manage to score a copy of Stranger's Wrath in the 2nd batch, just not the variant cover bundle, so I'm good there.

 
Well, like you said a pic doesn't really prove anything other than that I have a copy, but I can toss one up when I get a chance. I will say that the bar code on the back cover has a hole punched through it (Octodad did not).
That's legit! Most of the B&C copies we have left are hole punch copies. With B&C, Sony never got their promo copies (they were accidentally sent to us). Any that have made it out in the wild either came from Gun (the co-publisher) or us. All 10 that went into the blind boxes had hole punches, I think.

Congrats!

If anyone finds hole punch copies of other games, those are from Sony employees and need to be reported.
 
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Alrighty. I'm half tempted to put my blue oddworld variant on eBay and buy breach and clear with it.
That's not a bad idea actually, as it will take some of the overall cost off for you, and since you'll still have the standard copy of SW, it's not like your loosing out, and giving up a game to get one.

I guess it comes down to how bad you want the SW variant Vs. B&C?

 
Yeah but I could also sell my 2 regulars and buy breach and clear with it but my OCD will catch up as an incomplete set. Decisions, decisions.
 
Yeah but I could also sell my 2 regulars and buy breach and clear with it but my OCD will catch up as an incomplete set. Decisions, decisions.
That's another possibility for sure. Something else to consider, there are less SW variant than there is of B&C, so maybe one day that is actually worth more than the B&C. I doubt it, since SW has the standard version, where B&C is only that 1500, but since SW is also a more popular game, anything is possible.

Choose wisely!

 
I was all set to kickstart 40 bucks in for that vita game but then it popped up 9 bucks shipping and I backed out.
Same here. After reading Olengie's post on how much it costs to translate a game, I said fuck it and wanted to back it. But charging $9 to ship a game is ridiculous.
I tweeted it to the Sharin PR Twitter and they said it is being shipped from Japan via EMS worldwide. It will arrive in less than a week and comes with insurance. I guess that explains the cost?

 
I tweeted it to the Sharin PR Twitter and they said it is being shipped from Japan via EMS worldwide. It will arrive in less than a week and comes with insurance. I guess that explains the cost?
That sounds reasonable to me. I get why some people get hung up on the $9 s/h, but $9 really shouldn't be the make or break, especially not if you feel that you would be willing to back it at $50 and free shipping. It is the holiday season though, so I suppose it is possible that some people just can't handle that extra shipping cost.

 
That sounds reasonable to me. I get why some people get hung up on the $9 s/h, but $9 really shouldn't be the make or break, especially not if you feel that you would be willing to back it at $50 and free shipping. It is the holiday season though, so I suppose it is possible that some people just can't handle that extra shipping cost.
Yeah not that bad after they explained it.

 
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