- LOCK - Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - LOCK -

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[quote name='dpatel']Not exactly. While I don't agree with those statements, your analogy is off. Right now, while both formats are selling poorly, it is all about gaining momentum. Momentum which can help them lead in the future. The more people on board, at the beginning, the more willing future people will be to get on board too.[/quote] yes but the point being, at this point its not like 2 snowballs rolling down a hill. its like 2 pebbles rolling down 2 different hills. theyre both taking different approaches to breeching mainstream; and sonys strategy is an initial push w/ the PS3. what all those ppl (that i was responding to) fail to realize is HD DVD's main push is the sub $200 market & that hasnt begun yet. for example the HD-A2 jumped 150 places to be the #1 electronic sold during that fathers day weekend when the deal hit. toshiba sold 70% as many players in the 2 months following it then they had in the previous 12. and thats not even the magic $200 price point. when it hits that MSRP and its sitting on the shelf at retailers is when its marketshare will bloom. 'til then it will be outshone by the PS3s trojan effect. what the fanboys (ref to the AVS post H.Corner linked) fail to realize is that HD DVD isnt oblivious to the PS3s push; theyve known about it years before & their gameplan partially revolves around it.
 
The War right now is Blu-ray Vs HD-DVD not Blu-ray vs DVD and HD-DVD vs DVD. And in the war RIGHT NOW Blu-ray is clearly beating HD-DVD. Once they beat HD-DVD then they can worry about DVD. I guess it's the old expression "HD-DVD is the Battle, but DVD is the war."
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']The War right now is Blu-ray Vs HD-DVD not Blu-ray vs DVD and HD-DVD vs DVD. And in the war RIGHT NOW Blu-ray is clearly beating HD-DVD. Once they beat HD-DVD then they can worry about DVD. I guess it's the old expression "HD-DVD is the Battle, but DVD is the war."[/quote]
i dont think youre understanding the point. the point is that since dvd is 99% of the home vid market that the 'war' is at a point where neither side can be 'winning'. (much less already won according to sony & the fanboy post you linked) winning $10 at a table in vegas isnt the same as winning the world poker tour.
 
I agree the war is for the hi def disc market, not current sd DVD. It will be a long time before BR replaces DVD as the home movie standard.
I'm sorry but I think HD isn't going to have a chance unless they can get more studio support, and quick. And though they sold more players, BR still beats them in discs sales. Why is that?
I've have said this a million times people may buy a HD player, but what's going to happen when the movies they want are on BR? And now with this roll BR is going on with all the publicity over the Blockbuster announcement HD is in desperate need of a something to get back in the lead.
 
[quote name='dallow']Wars gotta start somewhere.[/quote] well if the HD war is like WWI, were at the point where Archduke Ferdinand gets assinated.

& millrat reread what i said. i never said its a war between DVD & HD discs. i just said that because DVD still overwhelmingly accounts for the sales. any advantage in sales now because of the PS3 can be quickly disolved when the masses begin to adopted. which is why declaring a winner now is asinine.
 
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=14513

How important is DVD/BD video playback to console owners? According to new research by The Diffusion Group, though 80 percent of console owners have the option, only 30 percent realized it was part of its feature set, and only 13 percent actually utilize it - more stats inside.

The new report, 'On the Use of Game Consoles for Movie Viewing', which surveyed 2000 U.S. homes, says that 74 percent of households rely solely on standalone DVD players for watching movies, while a quarter have gone online to purchase or rent digital movie downloads.

Looking more widely at the research results, the report found that approximately half of U.S. broadband households have at least one game console, with 15 percent owning more than one.

The study found that just over half of those that own consoles keep them in the living room, compared to just under a quarter in a second bedroom, and 21 percent in a den or game room.

As above, only 30 percent of DVD-capable console owners said that the console they owned even allowed for DVD playback, a fact, says Diffusion Group "that demonstrates how poorly many consumers understand the capabilities of today’s game consoles and a major barrier to persuading consumers to start using these platforms for non-gaming media consumption."

Finally, the group says that 42 percent of those console owners that have their consoles connected to the internet have watched an 'internet-based movie' on their TV.

Said report author Dale Gilliam III, “Today’s next-generation games consoles such as the Xbox 360 or Sony PS3 are true digital multimedia powerhouses. Yet very few of these devices are connected to the Internet and, even though these same platforms may feature a high-definition DVD playback system, very few consumers are using them for non-gaming media applications.”
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[quote name='propeller_head']

& w/ regards to TotalHD being a 3rd format? no, the whole point of TotalHD is consolidating the formats. thats why the VP Best Buy is so adamantly behind it. also format competition drives prices down not up. are discs more expensive for your dvd burner because they moved to +/- drives? again, if you look historically at the prices; the format war is causing them to drop FASTER not slower. think about it, neither format dies; dual format players available everywhere, studios not tied to either format & have more leverage w/ both licencers & production facilites.

nice of you to cut out the 1st part
"We're still working out the pricing," said Sanders. "We aren't announcing that here. It won't be materially more. We know what the manufacturing cost components are, and they won't be much more than regular HD discs."

the quote youre referring to is Warner talking to other studios & them referring to maintaining profit margins after implementing the tech. read between the lines.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/live-coverage-from-the-warner-press-conference/

"No retail price yet, but it is not cost prohibited.
If it motivates customers to buy it will be worth the cost." (the cost of implementing it to the studios, not to the customers)

[/QUOTE]

This is the most pointless reply ever, you didn't refute or back up a single point you or I made. That and you confused consumers with studios apparently. "consumers were willing to pay a little more..." You show one quote which is sketchy IMO, guess we'll have to wait to see who is right though. Also, there's alot of info in the press conference that's questionablely accurate (9 million devices in two years? Superman Returns is best selling title?). And I didn't cut off anything for the quote, read the article. It's ripped directly from that. You threw out a full length quote that wasn't even the same quote (so it appears). Also, you implied it was confirmed the same price, yet they are still working on pricing? Forgive the skeptic in me but I'm seeing alot of contradictions (3 or 4 to 1 at least) here to truely believe much of anything.

Yet, you (nor what you posted) didn't explain how it will drive the cost down. You yourself just said a monoply doesn't drive down cost, so if THD becomes a monoply what then? Still didn't explain how it's not a third format when I gave a perfectly logical example of how it can become one (read the DVDfile article as it follows the same logic). Furthermore, you still didn't explain how I'm getting so much more in this deal. (I'll freely admit I was wrong about licensing, looks like they don't get that). If you want to argue the points then fine, do it, though don't toss vague press conference minutes at me and then be like "oh man he was so right...".
 
the "consumers were willing to pay a little more" was a comment made addressing other studios in an attempt to widen usage of the format. it was not a deceleration to reporters about warner's pricing intentions. that is why in the first part of the quote which you omitted & i pointed out where they said "we're still working out the pricing,... It wont be materially more." & "If it motivates customers to buy it will be worth the cost." higher prices dont motivate customers to buy. the studies theyre talking about where they say customers were willing to pay more is in ref to existing customers; and the point of that statement is if existing customers are willing to pay more they perceive it as a better value, which means that customers waiting to start a collection because of the 'war' would be more willing to start purchasing movies given TotalHD if movies are sold at the same price. & this was only a week into 2k7 at CES remember, Superman returns was the best selling (if you include both formats together) at the time.

now its not a third format in that it's designed to bridge the gap between now & when dual format players are commonplace. warner & paramount believe this will happen which is why they support both. nielsen videoscan also believes this btw, & the predicted VHS's victory accurately. eventually TotalHD would become obsolescent and discontinued and studios can use the bargaining room left by the two established formats to finagle better deals out of licensers & manufacturers like i said. which should lead to a passing of the savings to consumers (i say should because pricing primarily relies on what the studios think the can get away w/ charging at the time). but since there are many studios you should expect some to try to undercut others & others to follow, to a reasonably profitable point. w/ that reasonably profitable point being lowered by increased profit margins for the previously mentioned reasons.
 
the "consumers were willing to pay a little more" was a comment made addressing other studios in an attempt to widen usage of the format. it was not a deceleration to reporters about warner's pricing intentions. that is why in the first part of the quote which you omitted & i pointed out where they said "we're still working out the pricing,... It wont be materially more." & "If it motivates customers to buy it will be worth the cost." higher prices dont motivate customers to buy. the studies theyre talking about where they say customers were willing to pay more is in ref to existing customers; and the point of that statement is if existing customers are willing to pay more they perceive it as a better value, which means that customers waiting to start a collection because of the 'war' would be more willing to start purchasing movies given TotalHD if movies are sold at the same price. & this was only a week into 2k7 at CES remember, Superman returns was the best selling (if you include both formats together) at the time.
edit: http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/402

now its not a third format in that it's designed to bridge the gap between now & when dual format players are commonplace. warner & paramount believe this will happen which is why they support both. nielsen videoscan also believes this btw, & the predicted VHS's victory accurately. eventually TotalHD would become obsolescent and discontinued and studios can use the bargaining room left by the two established formats to finagle better deals out of licensers & manufacturers like i said. which should lead to a passing of the savings to consumers (i say should because pricing primarily relies on what the studios think the can get away w/ charging at the time). but since there are many studios you should expect some to try to undercut others & others to follow, to a reasonably profitable point. w/ that reasonably profitable point being lowered by increased profit margins for the previously mentioned reasons.
 
[quote name='propeller_head']the "consumers were willing to pay a little more" was a comment made addressing other studios in an attempt to widen usage of the format. it was not a deceleration to reporters about warner's pricing intentions. that is why in the first part of the quote which you omitted & i pointed out where they said "we're still working out the pricing,... It wont be materially more." & "If it motivates customers to buy it will be worth the cost." higher prices dont motivate customers to buy. the studies theyre talking about where they say customers were willing to pay more is in ref to existing customers; and the point of that statement is if existing customers are willing to pay more they perceive it as a better value, which means that customers waiting to start a collection because of the 'war' would be more willing to start purchasing movies given TotalHD if movies are sold at the same price. & this was only a week into 2k7 at CES remember, Superman returns was the best selling (if you include both formats together) at the time.
edit: http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/402

now its not a third format in that it's designed to bridge the gap between now & when dual format players are commonplace. warner & paramount believe this will happen which is why they support both. nielsen videoscan also believes this btw, & the predicted VHS's victory accurately. eventually TotalHD would become obsolescent and discontinued and studios can use the bargaining room left by the two established formats to finagle better deals out of licensers & manufacturers like i said. which should lead to a passing of the savings to consumers (i say should because pricing primarily relies on what the studios think the can get away w/ charging at the time). but since there are many studios you should expect some to try to undercut others & others to follow, to a reasonably profitable point. w/ that reasonably profitable point being lowered by increased profit margins for the previously mentioned reasons.[/QUOTE]

No matter what you say this is a fourth type of optical disc for movies. It is yet another choice, supported by only a single studio now, that the customers must choose from when they look at shelves. How's it going to change where other studios stand? Warner themselves has said it depends on getting exclusive studios behind it. But what's in it for them, additional production costs? Add with not even a majority of people (only 49%) more likely to buy? Then factor in that apparently according to you it's designed to become obsolete? If I was say Universal for example, I'd say no thanks.

And your explanation of price savings is reaching. If no liscening costs are added in to Warner for THD how does this change the liscensing costs of studios? Especially since only two major studios produce for both sides currently, if anything the others would pay more licensing not less. What is there to finalge with? Additional manufactuering costs? If anything manufactuering costs will increase (at least at the start) with a studio switching to THD because now they're producing for two formats (Paramount excluded). Your explanation of profit margin pricing is an inevitable occurence of any format or technology. For instance, the cost of producing/manufactuering is going to go down because as the format grows, equipment becomes more widely available, thus overall cost eventually drops, this cost savings is then presumbly transfered to customer savings (perhaps not though given the current demand for the item and state of the market). And then I could travel back in time and say the same thing about CDs in the 80's. Every format is more costly to produce in the first year than it is the second. But how's THD going to speed that up? And if dual format players are to be commonplace then maybe your theory is correct but THD has nothing to do with that. It bridges the gap for no one if other studios don't fall in (why should they if dual format devices are going to be commonplace). And at this rate actual dual format players seem like they'll be available before Total HD will. Now if studios increase production costs by making THD (which they said it will cost more because they have to make both formats) how is that helping even in the long or short term? Put simply, if every studio has (or should have) the same mentality you do, that dual format devices will take over eventually whats the point in adding in more costs temporarily to produce Total HD discs (as Warner freely admits THD is pointless on dual frmat players)?

Edit: Also again, you're quote wasn't the full quote of either of those I posted, but I do somewhat get your point. I don't think it's all that correct, but if you want to stick to your guns on the price issue then fine. Really it's getting sort of tiresome arguing this whole thing altogether (all for something that's been delayed and may never really take off anyhow) and I have a feeling niether one of us will manage to sway the other's opinion.
 
it is not a third format (much less fourth). it is a combination of two existing formats. so its both formats; but it certainly isnt a different format. there wont be a BR, HD DVD & TotalHD version. there will just be TotalHD, so it wont be adding to shelf space it will be making better use of it (which is what the Best Buy quote was in ref to). and whats supposed to be in it for them (studios) is more disc sales, obviously. thats the whole point. to start consumers buying the discs more now so the market grows faster. & its not 49% more ppl are more likely to buy; its people are 49% more likely to buy. 2 different things. say youre filling out a survey. on a scale of 1 to 10 w/ 1 being wont buy, 5 being might buy and 10 being definitely buy. 49% more likely would be an average of 7.5 w/ 5 being the current norm. & even if it was 49% more ppl likely to buy, thats still a large jump in sales proportionally. and yes, it would become obsolete when dual format players enter mainstream; thats the point. at that point in time the studios will be able to go w/ either format because either one will be able to be played.

the licensing costs would be higher to the studios, but Warner has said it wont charge licensing fees to other studios to use the format. it would just be a licensing cost to both BDA & HD DVD. again, the logic warner used during CES is that the extra licensing costs would be negated by the larger number of disc sales. & youre misunderstanding what i said in re: to finagling. im referring to after THD becomes obsolete (when dual format players are commonplace). then studios can produce on BR or HD DVD, either or. so BDA & HD DVD will compete on licensing costs & the BD & HD DVD plants can compete on production costs. of course there will be economies of scale; but a monopolistic economy of scale is still more constrained inherently and more stifled w/ re: to tech progress.

im not sure what quote youre talking about. what didnt i fully quote? what was the full quote and what was it that i omitted?

anyway, the whole idea behind THD can be related to the concept of delayed gratification. it has a higher initial cost, but it will increase sales which will outweigh the cost in time. it will also grow the market faster & create a more competitive environment in the future for more bargaining leverage & larger profit potential (which hopefully results in cheaper movies). thats the basic idea.
 
[quote name='propeller_head']it is not a third format (much less fourth). it is a combination of two existing formats. so its both formats; but it certainly isnt a different format. there wont be a BR, HD DVD & TotalHD version. there will just be TotalHD, so it wont be adding to shelf space it will be making better use of it (which is what the Best Buy quote was in ref to). and whats supposed to be in it for them (studios) is more disc sales, obviously. thats the whole point. to start consumers buying the discs more now so the market grows faster. & its not 49% more ppl are more likely to buy; its people are 49% more likely to buy. 2 different things. say youre filling out a survey. on a scale of 1 to 10 w/ 1 being wont buy, 5 being might buy and 10 being definitely buy. 49% more likely would be an average of 7.5 w/ 5 being the current norm. & even if it was 49% more ppl likely to buy, thats still a large jump in sales proportionally. and yes, it would become obsolete when dual format players enter mainstream; thats the point. at that point in time the studios will be able to go w/ either format because either one will be able to be played.

the licensing costs would be higher to the studios, but Warner has said it wont charge licensing fees to other studios to use the format. it would just be a licensing cost to both BDA & HD DVD. again, the logic warner used during CES is that the extra licensing costs would be negated by the larger number of disc sales. & youre misunderstanding what i said in re: to finagling. im referring to after THD becomes obsolete (when dual format players are commonplace). then studios can produce on BR or HD DVD, either or. so BDA & HD DVD will compete on licensing costs & the BD & HD DVD plants can compete on production costs. of course there will be economies of scale; but a monopolistic economy of scale is still more constrained inherently and more stifled w/ re: to tech progress.

im not sure what quote youre talking about. what didnt i fully quote? what was the full quote and what was it that i omitted?

anyway, the whole idea behind THD can be related to the concept of delayed gratification. it has a higher initial cost, but it will increase sales which will outweigh the cost in time. it will also grow the market faster & create a more competitive environment in the future for more bargaining leverage & larger profit potential (which hopefully results in cheaper movies). thats the basic idea.[/QUOTE]

What monoply? There's a war between two factoins and there won't be a monoply for quite sometime. Costs (probably for company and consumer alike)will continue to fall, because of that warring competetion. And how will it make better use of shelf space when it's on another shelf altogether? An average customer will walk in see a BD section, a HD section, and now a THD section. It's not that it really is a brand new format it's that the average buyer will in fact percieve it to be a new format, so in the eyes of the masses that's how it could look and Warner given no logical solution to this.

I think the difference is you percieve this to be some temp solution that customers will automatcially accept based on some more than likely skewed numbers and surveys produced by Warner (and quote from execs whos ecompanies are losing profit as this year rattles on). I percieve that customers still will deem everything too confusing and too expensive with or without Total HD. I can see where you think it will produce more buyers but my assertion is most common customers still ahve to choose hardware, still have to find out what studios support what, etc., etc. If every studio suddenly started backing THD, then all your theories would fit, but that's simply not the case and never will be (not to mention if everyone was on a single format this quick it'd be amazing). Besides I don't think you get what I was saying.

Correct me if I'm wrong but this is your projected business model here:
1) Pay more costs upfront in mancuafactuering, equipment, production and licensing
2) possibly more people will buy it for abit
3) Now, a few months later, it's totally obsolete and you've spent a lot of money on simple 50/50 chance that enough bought it to bridge this so called gap
4) Now dual format devices are everyplace, things are less compettive thanks to DF players (not THD), but you have extra equipment and costs you don't need any longer.

That solved the dilemma of produciong two format, but then in that case DF players did it, plus thats's a ton of risk for any business to incur somewhat needlessly. If DF players reign supreme at some point (dunno if it will happen) and everyone knows this, why wouldn't they just stay the course they're on? What would be the point in producing THD discs for such a short period? Increased market interest? That'll happen automatically when there's one format or DF devices are commonplace. The discs they produce now would work just fine on those players, why start a new, more expensive, combined format only to stop months later? As no one would need to keep making both formats, there'd be no real point to THD but studios would still have all that cost incurred implementing it. The market will be less competitive than before, but not because of total HD but becaus eof dual format players. If anything Total HD seves to make things less competetive for the consumer if everyone is on board, because then you only have one shelf to look at not two. So if it's just to bridge the gap for studios till that time when things are less competetive, why invest in it? Why not just produce what they do now, then wait til DF players are everywhere and then "finalge" with prices? If HD is cheaper for a BD studio at that point, why not buy the equipment and licenses then?

However, I admit I understand better what you're saying now (though a couple explanations didn't appear and it's what you didn't fully quote it's that your quote and mine weren't the same, they were three separate ones). I think again the big disagreement is that you think Total HD will be embraced by customers and studios alike, I think it will be neither and people like myself will only believe it makes things more confusing in this format war. The vast majority is riding it out for a solution, and unlike yourself, I have great doubt that THD is in fact that solution. For that reason, I think we're both set and this will only prove to be a rather circular topic.
 
[quote name='propeller_head']well if the HD war is like WWI, were at the point where Archduke Ferdinand gets assinated.[/quote]How strange, I was thinking of exactly that event!
 
Some more details about the Starz Blu-Ray titles

As reported here some time ago, Starz Home Entertainment and their label Anchor Bay Entertainment will release the first season of Masters Of Horror on Blu-Ray Disc in September. We have been able to uncover some more details about the release that you will find interesting.

The release will consist of 4 BD-50 discs containing all the 15 season 1 episodes in 1080p high definition video. Currently plans are to provide uncompressed PCM 5.1 audio tracks with the release but that may change, depending on the storage availability on the final discs. The set will also contain some – though not all – of the bonus materials found on the individual DVD releases of the episodes.

In addition to “Masters Of Horror” we have heard mention of another number of Blu-Ray titles from Anchor Bay, scheduled for Halloween. Look out for announcements of John Carpenter’s Halloween, Sam Raimi’s Evil Dead II and George A. Romero’s Dawn Of The Dead and Day Of The Dead to be released on Blu-Ray some time in September or early October.
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Hell YEAH!
 
Amazon Getting 1000 New HD DVD Indie Titles
Amazon's new on-demand DVD printing service will soon take on 1000 new Indie titles through the "One Thousand HD DVD Indies Project". The initiative is sponsored by Amazon.com and Microsoft and is designed to allow independent filmmakers to enter the market with lower costs and get their projectors sold online to consumers. The on-demand system, called CustomFlix, is one of Amazon's family of companies and will provide free disc authoring and setup services for up to 1000 Indie titles. The titles can be submitted through the CustomFlix website and enabled for sale at Amazon.com. The typical setup fees are $499 per title.

"From a technical standpoint, we found that the HD DVD format fits our business model perfectly," said Dana LoPiccolo-Giles, co-founder and managing director of CustomFlix. "With retail shelf space at a premium, our model eliminates the risk of carrying inventory and immediately expands the number of great HD DVD titles available to consumers."
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http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/amazon-1000-hd-dvd-indie-titles.html

Why HD DVD? Do they want their films to sell like crap?
Best to get it on DVD and out in the hands of people.
 
With the small selection that HD-DVD has (when compared to DVD) the indie titles will have a better chance of being recognized. But, even some of the top selling HD titles are still selling like crap, so DVD still probably would've been better.
 
[quote name='dallow']http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/amazon-1000-hd-dvd-indie-titles.html

Why HD DVD? Do they want their films to sell like crap?
Best to get it on DVD and out in the hands of people.[/QUOTE]

:roll: If you actually went to their site before you spouted your crap, you would have found out that they already do dvd, this is being funded by Amazon/Microsoft and they print on demand.

Jointly sponsored by Amazon and Microsoft, the 1000 HD DVD Indies Project changes the distribution game for indie filmmakers shooting in high definition.

At no charge, up to 1000 selected entries will be authored to HD DVD using Microsoft's world-class technology and then made available to millions of Amazon.com customers through the CustomFlix Disc on Demand service. Units are produced as customers order, so there is no inventory to worry about.

Filmmakers set their own list price and earn royalties on all sales. Plus, filmmakers are free to pursue traditional distribution deals while participating in this Project.
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http://www.customflix.com/

- edit [quote name='GizmoGC']Hell YEAH![/QUOTE]

Oh, fuck them.

If there is anything that would force me to buy a Blu-Ray player, it's Dawn Of The Dead and Day Of The Dead.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']:roll: If you actually went to their site before you spouted your crap, you would have found out that they already do dvd, this is being funded by Amazon/Microsoft and they print on demand.



http://www.customflix.com/

[/quote]

Good to know.
You didn't have to call what I said crap.
This wasn't a negative towards HD DVD.
I was just wondering what the indie filmmakers are looking to get from it.
 
HOPE FOR THINGS TO COME!

C'mon Pixar!

This currently is slated for European release:

http://www.dvdrama.com/news.php?21050

According to French site DVDrama, a compilation containing all of Pixar's short films (including the latest one, Lifted) will be released on DVD and Blu-ray late in the year.


pixarcourtsz1hd-47348heny.jpg
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http://www.techspot.com/news/26093-samsung-announces-dualformat-hi-def-player.html
According to a report by DigiTimes, Samsung Electronics, during a conference held in Hamburg, Germany last week, announced it will launch the BD-UP5000, a dual format high definition player that will hit the European market on November at a tentative price of €400 – about $545.

Samsung’s player would become the world's second dual-format player next to LG Electronics’ BH100, which made its debut at the CES 2007 in January and launched initially in the US market at $1,199. However, LG's BH-100 so far has received mixed reviews, with the lack of full support for both formats being a major complaint.

The BD-UP5000 not only will cost less than half the price of the BH-100, but it will also feature full support for both formats, according to the company, adding the HD DVD interactive system (HDi) as well as Blu-ray Java platform support (BD-Java).
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note: this is the same price as their BR only BD-P1400

http://www.betanews.com/article/HD_DVD_Says_Outselling_Bluray_in_Europe/1184255402
The European arm of the HD DVD Promotion Group announced Thursday that it has 74 percent of the high-definition market for standalone players in Britain, Germany, France, Italy, Spain and Switzerland, outselling rival Blu-ray players by a 3-to-1 margin. But the figures do not include Sony PS3 sales.
Toshiba cut prices of its HD DVD players in both Europe and the United States last month, and the company says it has seen a boost in sales following the move. Standalone Blu-ray players remain more expensive, which is likely the primary reason behind the sales disparity. However, the sales numbers, which were commissioned from market research group GfK and haven't been made public, do not take into account Blu-ray's primary sales driver, the PlayStation 3.
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yeayeayea, we dont know how many of those ps3s were bought as BR players etc.. i know. but the cheaper stand alone players are a closer indicator of where the general public will look when they see $199 players advertised in the sunday paper.
 
Turns out the article was misinterpreted, and the dual format player will cost $545 more than the standalone Blu Ray player
 
[quote name='anomynous']Turns out the article was misinterpreted, and the dual format player will cost $545 more than the standalone Blu Ray player[/QUOTE]

Not going to happen. Makes no sense.
Why, WHY, would anyone buy it?

Lets do some simple math

Samsung Blu-Ray player is currently $599.99
Toshiba HD-A2 player is currently $299.99
Thats TODAY, MSRP.
In October, lets go ahead and slash...
$200 off Samsung and $100 off Toshiba.
Why? Blu-Ray players seem to always be about double that of the HD DVD, and a $200 Toshiba player seams plausible.

So now we have
Samsung Blu-Ray $399.99
Toshiba A2 $199.99
Total = $600

This article claiming it will be $550+ over a standard Blu-Ray player makes no sense. Why would anyway pay an additional $400 just two have two machines in one?
I'd rather spend $600 and get a standalone Blu-Ray and HD DVD player, then $900 for a dual.

I think $599.99 is the magic price for this when it launches. However, will it be THAT great of price? If what I posted above with pricedrops is true, I would never spend the same amount for a 2 in 1 product because if it breaks, im SOL on both formats.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Not going to happen. Makes no sense.
Why, WHY, would anyone buy it?

Lets do some simple math

Samsung Blu-Ray player is currently $599.99
Toshiba HD-A2 player is currently $299.99
Thats TODAY, MSRP.
In October, lets go ahead and slash...
$200 off Samsung and $100 off Toshiba.
Why? Blu-Ray players seem to always be about double that of the HD DVD, and a $200 Toshiba player seams plausible.

So now we have
Samsung Blu-Ray $399.99
Toshiba A2 $199.99
Total = $600

This article claiming it will be $550+ over a standard Blu-Ray player makes no sense. Why would anyway pay an additional $400 just two have two machines in one?
I'd rather spend $600 and get a standalone Blu-Ray and HD DVD player, then $900 for a dual.

I think $599.99 is the magic price for this when it launches. However, will it be THAT great of price? If what I posted above with pricedrops is true, I would never spend the same amount for a 2 in 1 product because if it breaks, im SOL on both formats.[/QUOTE]

Aren't you the same guy who has both BR and HD DVD players, but wants to sell your "POS3" for an all-in-one device that plays both HD DVD and Blu-Ray (spending more money than you've already spent in the process)?

It's pretty rich of you to ask "why," then. :lol:
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Aren't you the same guy who has both BR and HD DVD players, but wants to sell your "POS3" for an all-in-one device that plays both HD DVD and Blu-Ray (spending more money than you've already spent in the process)?

It's pretty rich of you to ask "why," then. :lol:[/quote] well youre seperating the idea of it from the degree to which the idea is taken. he might be willing to spend $50 more, but not $500+ more.

i also do not think it's a misprint since there are several articles out which assert the same thing. and the only one i can find which asserts $500 more is a reprtint engadget made of a Bly-ray.com 'story' 6 days before the article i posted made its way to the net.

from what little investigating ive done it looks like
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=295
wrong

http://www.techspot.com/news/26093-samsung-announces-dualformat-hi-def-player.html
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20070710231023.html
http://www.hardocp.com/news.html?news=MjY4MzgsLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdCwsLDE=
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/07/11/samsung_400euro_blu-ray/
http://hdtvorg.co.uk/news/articles/2007071101.htm
http://www.legitreviews.com/news/3704/
http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/8543/9567/Samsung-BD-UP5000-cheap-price-announced.phtml
http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20070710PD216.html
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/stuff/20070705/ttc-one-player-to-rule-them-all-due-in-o-6017cbb.html
right
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Aren't you the same guy who has both BR and HD DVD players, but wants to sell your "POS3" for an all-in-one device that plays both HD DVD and Blu-Ray (spending more money than you've already spent in the process)?

It's pretty rich of you to ask "why," then. :lol:[/QUOTE]

If the $545 more then current Blu-Ray player is true, you think I would spend close to $1,000 for a dual player? :roll:

First chance I can get rid of the POS3 for a decent priced Dual Player, as ive stated several times, I will. Feel free to spin this however you want as you usually do.
 
[quote name='dallow']Oooh, Denon is making a BD player, interesting.[/QUOTE]

EXPENSIVE! But yeah, very cool.

This week should bring us some new announcements for titles from Fox apparently. THIS TIME I am waiting until I see them in stores before I sell off my DVDs of said movies :bomb:
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']EXPENSIVE! But yeah, very cool.

This week should bring us some new announcements for titles from Fox apparently. THIS TIME I am waiting until I see them in stores before I sell off my DVDs of said movies :bomb:[/QUOTE]
*crosses fingers for the Die Hard movies, especially LFoDH*
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']If the $545 more then current Blu-Ray player is true, you think I would spend close to $1,000 for a dual player? :roll:

First chance I can get rid of the POS3 for a decent priced Dual Player, as ive stated several times, I will. Feel free to spin this however you want as you usually do.[/QUOTE]

Oh, yes. I did forget to spin, didn't I?

Well, allow me to proffer this in response: as someone not keeping tabs on you, it is not up to me to determine what you consider the pricefloor for a dual-format player to be before you would buy one. It is, however, my place to suggest you're a fool for spending more money than you've already spent in order to have less technological capabilites, in the future, than you currently have at the moment. IMO, spending more money for less technological capabilities is absurd, whether it's a dollar fifty or $500. I can understand wanting fewer set-top boxes 'round your tv set - but if that were the case, why buy HD DVD or Blu-Ray at all? Just wait for the format war to end, instead.

What HD DVD player do you use, FWIW?
 
how do you know the samsung is less capable? according to all the releases it has full BD-J, something the PS3 doesnt atm. so if anything the ps3 is less capable :p

if you mean more capable in that it plays PS3 games, you'd be right. but its pretty obvious gizmo isnt interested in that. so what would be the point in having it?

& ftr, theres a very large dif between paying 1% more and paying 100% more; no matter how you try to finagle your words around you cant escape that.
 
[quote name='propeller_head']how do you know the samsung is less capable? according to all the releases it has full BD-J, something the PS3 doesnt atm. so if anything the ps3 is less capable :p[/quote]

Nope, by 'capable,' you got it in the next section.

if you mean more capable in that it plays PS3 games, you'd be right. but its pretty obvious gizmo isnt interested in that. so what would be the point in having it?
Click to expand...

Well, frankly, I think that Gizmo is merely trying to posture for the sake of posturing. He doesn't see anything he likes for the PS3 because he doesn't want to. I can guarantee that, over the course of the console's lifetime, there will be a game for the PS3 that he would, at the very least, express a mild interest in playing. Such absolutism on his part is silly posturing, IMO. Unless your console's name is "Virtual Boy," I can't quite believe a single soul who claims to have no interest in anything on one system, and accurately believes they never will be interested, either. So, if he already owns one, why get rid of it?

& ftr, theres a very large dif between paying 1% more and paying 100% more; no matter how you try to finagle your words around you cant escape that.
Click to expand...

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea of "paying more for less" (assuming, of course, that the PS3 will be updated to play BD+J in the fall, which I *think* it is scheduled to do), simply put. If you told me that I could sell my Xbox 360 and pay $50 more for something that plays Xbox 360 games, I'd tell you to go fuck yourself. This analogy isn't even that apt. Again, if there's such disdain for the machine, I can't fathom why anyone would want to dive into high definition video formats in the first place.
 
[quote name='Maynard']Where can you find comparisons of sales figures for the two formats?[/quote]
nielsen videoscan releases them weekly. theyve been steady w/ BR about 60% and HD DVD 40% for a while. since the PS3s numbers started to grow this year tho its been closer to 66% BR 34% HD DVD. it will probably start to level again when sub $200 HD DVD players start showing up nov/dec/jan.
 
And the first next gen New Line Home Video release is.... Hairspray?!?

Can't say I was expecting that. You'd figure with the long wait (being partly owned by Warner we all knew releases were coming sooner or later for both formats) and all they'd break out with a giant LotR set or something.
 
Hairspray, huh? I'm still trying to wrap my head around what appears to be an aesthetically uninspired remake of a John Waters classic that's merely two decades old.

Those trite 90's "reimaginings" of Shakespeare, for example, showed much more creative flow than taking a John Waters movie and remaking it to look like a fucking John Waters movie.

Then again, since LOTR already looks like hot sex when playing on an upscaling DVD player (PS3 in my case), I probably wouldn't jump on a BR release if it were announced.
 
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20070720/136478/

Ricoh Exhibits Optical Device Compatible with CD, DVD, Blu-ray Disc, HD DVD
Ricoh Co. Ltd. exhibited Multiple Format Compatible Plate (MFCP), an optical device that enables the playback of multiple optical disk formats with a single objective lens when set in front of the lens, at InterOpto '07 held from July 11-13, 2007.
The device is compatible with four standards, namely CD, DVD, Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD.
When used in the optical system of the optical head in an optical disc drive, the device can eliminate the need of so-called two lens setup in which two lenses are provided for use with CD/DVD and the next-generation DVD such as Blu-ray Disc or HD DVD.
The company said that, while MFCP is required to be added, the number of optical parts in the entire optical head may be decreased compared with the case of the two lens setup, thereby reducing the size of the optical system of the optical head.
Click to expand...

dvdA.jpg


dvdB.jpg

dvdC.jpg
 
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