speedracer
Banned
Good times.
Edit: They moved my article. Myke's was better anyway.
Edit: They moved my article. Myke's was better anyway.
Last edited by a moderator:
Looks like Texas executed an innocent man.
- Thread starter speedracer
- Start date
mykevermin
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 34 (97%)
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/09/07/090907fa_fact_grann
A far longer, more thorough article arguing that Willingham was innocent.
An outstanding read whether or not you believe it - not the least of reasons being the exposure that much forensics is as much less "science" than you might think.
A far longer, more thorough article arguing that Willingham was innocent.
An outstanding read whether or not you believe it - not the least of reasons being the exposure that much forensics is as much less "science" than you might think.
fullmetalfan720
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 11 (100%)
This is why we can't have the death penalty.
On one hand, the man refused to plead guilty in exchange for a life sentence. Can you blame him? 
sitting in a prison cell for 50 more years, they can go ahead and kill me for all I care. Good for him.
On the other hand, this is Texas. Things such as common sense and facts aren't a focus down there. They're more concerned with state pride, racial pride and keeping "commies"(Their word for educated people) out of their state. I never cared for the state much or the people down there since they seem to go out of their way to be hardassed, self-important jerks. They're like a redneck version of Ireland*.
*I'm of strong Irish descent and I really don't like Ireland either, to be perfectly honest.
sitting in a prison cell for 50 more years, they can go ahead and kill me for all I care. Good for him.On the other hand, this is Texas. Things such as common sense and facts aren't a focus down there. They're more concerned with state pride, racial pride and keeping "commies"(Their word for educated people) out of their state. I never cared for the state much or the people down there since they seem to go out of their way to be hardassed, self-important jerks. They're like a redneck version of Ireland*.
*I'm of strong Irish descent and I really don't like Ireland either, to be perfectly honest.
elprincipe
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 60 (100%)
Yeah, I posted that New Yorker article some time ago. I'm still waiting for those who are in favor of the death penalty to make a coherent counter-argument.
JolietJake
Banned
[quote name='Diosoth']On one hand, the man refused to plead guilty in exchange for a life sentence. Can you blame him? sitting in a prison cell for 50 more years, they can go ahead and kill me for all I care. Good for him.
On the other hand, this is Texas. Things such as common sense and facts aren't a focus down there. They're more concerned with state pride, racial pride and keeping "commies"(Their word for educated people) out of their state. I never cared for the state much or the people down there since they seem to go out of their way to be hardassed, self-important jerks. They're like a redneck version of Ireland*.
*I'm of strong Irish descent and I really don't like Ireland either, to be perfectly honest.[/QUOTE]
I've always thought that spending most your life in prison would be worse than getting the death penalty. That's why i'd rather people just be locked up for the rest of their lives. Of course if you're near death anyway, that might not be such a long sentence.
It's just that killing someone stops them from having to think about what they did for the rest of their lives. I can't imagine having to live the rest of my life with the memory of killing someone.
sitting in a prison cell for 50 more years, they can go ahead and kill me for all I care. Good for him.On the other hand, this is Texas. Things such as common sense and facts aren't a focus down there. They're more concerned with state pride, racial pride and keeping "commies"(Their word for educated people) out of their state. I never cared for the state much or the people down there since they seem to go out of their way to be hardassed, self-important jerks. They're like a redneck version of Ireland*.
*I'm of strong Irish descent and I really don't like Ireland either, to be perfectly honest.[/QUOTE]
I've always thought that spending most your life in prison would be worse than getting the death penalty. That's why i'd rather people just be locked up for the rest of their lives. Of course if you're near death anyway, that might not be such a long sentence.
It's just that killing someone stops them from having to think about what they did for the rest of their lives. I can't imagine having to live the rest of my life with the memory of killing someone.
tivo
CAGiversary!
[quote name='SpazX']And getting revenge on them is worth the lives of innocent people? [/QUOTE]
The law includes the "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" bit to try to eliminate false prosecution but Nothing is perfect. Millions of innocent people die from much more mundane human error + unlucky circumstances (car crashes, to name one). The "revenge" you speak of is due punishment for atrocities against one's fellow man.
The law includes the "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" bit to try to eliminate false prosecution but Nothing is perfect. Millions of innocent people die from much more mundane human error + unlucky circumstances (car crashes, to name one). The "revenge" you speak of is due punishment for atrocities against one's fellow man.
[quote name='tivo']The law includes the "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" bit to try to eliminate false prosecution but Nothing is perfect. Millions of innocent people die from much more mundane human error + unlucky circumstances (car crashes, to name one). The "revenge" you speak of is due punishment for atrocities against one's fellow man.[/QUOTE]
I don't see how it's much of a punishment. If you put someone in prison you're taking away their rights as a punishment, which they feel as a punishment by virtue of the fact that they are conscious. If you kill them then they're dead, they're not being punished, they're not experiencing anything, they're simply dead. There are probably a good deal of people who would rather be dead than spend life in prison, in which case you're probably doing them a favor.
Car crashes aren't intentional. You don't accidentally execute someone. The fact that innocent people die in car crashes is unfortunate, but practically unavoidable, since people need to drive cars to get to work, etc. No innocent person has to die by execution if you simply don't execute anyone. It's an unnecessary action and I don't see how it's acceptable to anyone to kill any innocent person just to kill some guilty people who would otherwise be in prison anyway.
I don't see how it's much of a punishment. If you put someone in prison you're taking away their rights as a punishment, which they feel as a punishment by virtue of the fact that they are conscious. If you kill them then they're dead, they're not being punished, they're not experiencing anything, they're simply dead. There are probably a good deal of people who would rather be dead than spend life in prison, in which case you're probably doing them a favor.
Car crashes aren't intentional. You don't accidentally execute someone. The fact that innocent people die in car crashes is unfortunate, but practically unavoidable, since people need to drive cars to get to work, etc. No innocent person has to die by execution if you simply don't execute anyone. It's an unnecessary action and I don't see how it's acceptable to anyone to kill any innocent person just to kill some guilty people who would otherwise be in prison anyway.
GuilewasNK
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 110 (100%)
[quote name='elprincipe']Yeah, I posted that New Yorker article some time ago. I'm still waiting for those who are in favor of the death penalty to make a coherent counter-argument.[/QUOTE]
There is a place for the death penalty just like there is a place for abortion. They both need to used with extreme consideration for the outcome and rarely, if at all possible. Just because both are legal doesn't make them desirable choices and in both cases there needs to be 100% certainty it is the right thing to do for that particular case.
In regards to the death penalty, I have to have irrefutable evidence before I could sentence someone to death. Humans aren't infallible and if I sent an innocent man to his death I couldn't live with that. I also only believe in the death penalty for homicides, genocides, or other death related crimes. As heinous as some crimes can be, I don't see the rationale in the death penalty for crimes that don't directly relate in death.
There is a place for the death penalty just like there is a place for abortion. They both need to used with extreme consideration for the outcome and rarely, if at all possible. Just because both are legal doesn't make them desirable choices and in both cases there needs to be 100% certainty it is the right thing to do for that particular case.
In regards to the death penalty, I have to have irrefutable evidence before I could sentence someone to death. Humans aren't infallible and if I sent an innocent man to his death I couldn't live with that. I also only believe in the death penalty for homicides, genocides, or other death related crimes. As heinous as some crimes can be, I don't see the rationale in the death penalty for crimes that don't directly relate in death.
While I'm generally against the death penalty there are certain instances where the public good is served by an execution. I am specifically speaking people who are just too dangerous to have the possibility that they could ever escape or be free. By that I mean the saddams, bin ladens, timothy mcveighs, and hitlers of the world. People who are unquestionably dangerous and guilty of their crimes.
I should have just quoted Guile and gone with the usual "this" because he stated it much better than I did.
I should have just quoted Guile and gone with the usual "this" because he stated it much better than I did.
mykevermin
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 34 (97%)
[quote name='elprincipe']Yeah, I posted that New Yorker article some time ago. I'm still waiting for those who are in favor of the death penalty to make a coherent counter-argument.[/QUOTE]
my bad for not crediting you on that. couldn't bloody remember who first posted it.
my bad for not crediting you on that. couldn't bloody remember who first posted it.
perdition(troy
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 7 (89%)
you win some you lose some.
thrustbucket
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 7 (100%)
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']This is why we can't have the death penalty.[/QUOTE]
We really need to find a way to NOT pay huge sums of money for people to spend life in prison then.
We really need another Australia.
We really need to find a way to NOT pay huge sums of money for people to spend life in prison then.
We really need another Australia.
This isn't news to me. Especially in Texas where they even execute mentally retarded people.
It isn't worth executing even a single innocent person to still be around.
"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be so eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."
Cookie for whoever knows where that quote comes from.
It isn't worth executing even a single innocent person to still be around.
"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be so eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."
Cookie for whoever knows where that quote comes from.
elprincipe
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 60 (100%)
[quote name='thrustbucket']We really need to find a way to NOT pay huge sums of money for people to spend life in prison then.
We really need another Australia.[/QUOTE]
Thrust, it costs more to execute someone than to keep them in prison for their entire life. We'd actually SAVE money by stopping executions. Strange, but true.
[quote name='IRHari']"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be so eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."
Cookie for whoever knows where that quote comes from.[/QUOTE]
Also one of my favorite quotes. It's one of the many interesting things Gandalf says in Lord of the Rings, which happens to be my favorite book. Another favorite:
"War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend."
*munches cookie* You can have one as well if you can tell me who says the above.
We really need another Australia.[/QUOTE]
Thrust, it costs more to execute someone than to keep them in prison for their entire life. We'd actually SAVE money by stopping executions. Strange, but true.
[quote name='IRHari']"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be so eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."
Cookie for whoever knows where that quote comes from.[/QUOTE]
Also one of my favorite quotes. It's one of the many interesting things Gandalf says in Lord of the Rings, which happens to be my favorite book. Another favorite:
"War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend."
*munches cookie* You can have one as well if you can tell me who says the above.
tivo
CAGiversary!
[quote name='SpazX']I don't see how it's much of a punishment. If you put someone in prison you're taking away their rights as a punishment, which they feel as a punishment by virtue of the fact that they are conscious. If you kill them then they're dead, they're not being punished, they're not experiencing anything, they're simply dead. There are probably a good deal of people who would rather be dead than spend life in prison, in which case you're probably doing them a favor.
[/QUOTE]
i've heard that before- life in prison is worse than death. I'd disagree. If I had to face death or a life in prison, I'd choose the prison. And most people i've talked with would choose prison as well. Hot food, visitors, sunshine, physical activity, books, and chance to get out, As for criminals who'd rather face death than prison, they either take their life before being caught or commit suicide sometime in prison. So I don't really care about the feeling/thoughts of the criminals and let them choose their own punishment. For that reason, I push the death penalty. Now, tack on some torture or imprison the individual with someone they'd really hate (i..e. make prison a living hell) then we're having a serious discussion.
[/QUOTE]
i've heard that before- life in prison is worse than death. I'd disagree. If I had to face death or a life in prison, I'd choose the prison. And most people i've talked with would choose prison as well. Hot food, visitors, sunshine, physical activity, books, and chance to get out, As for criminals who'd rather face death than prison, they either take their life before being caught or commit suicide sometime in prison. So I don't really care about the feeling/thoughts of the criminals and let them choose their own punishment. For that reason, I push the death penalty. Now, tack on some torture or imprison the individual with someone they'd really hate (i..e. make prison a living hell) then we're having a serious discussion.
elprincipe
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 60 (100%)
[quote name='IRHari']Faramir? In Two Towers?[/QUOTE]
Well done, hopefully you didn't have to look it up. Cookie!
Well done, hopefully you didn't have to look it up. Cookie!
[quote name='elprincipe']Thrust, it costs more to execute someone than to keep them in prison for their entire life. We'd actually SAVE money by stopping executions. Strange, but true.
[/QUOTE]
That's because we do it the wrong way... instead of going through all the hassle, just give em a bath... then toss a toaster in. You can get toasters super-cheap.
[/QUOTE]
That's because we do it the wrong way... instead of going through all the hassle, just give em a bath... then toss a toaster in. You can get toasters super-cheap.
ToadallyAwesome
CAGiversary!
It is amazing that they didn't realize that the facts of the evidence were not facts at all in light of the new report. I bet they didn't even read it.
elprincipe
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 60 (100%)
[quote name='georox']That's because we do it the wrong way... instead of going through all the hassle, just give em a bath... then toss a toaster in. You can get toasters super-cheap.[/QUOTE]
I know you were trying to be funny, but the main cost really isn't the actual lethal injection or electric chair or whatever. But you probably knew that.
I know you were trying to be funny, but the main cost really isn't the actual lethal injection or electric chair or whatever. But you probably knew that.
elprincipe
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 60 (100%)
[quote name='bmulligan']We could still build some tall steel walls around Manhattan. It's not too late.[/QUOTE]
I also thought when L.A. gets separated from the rest of California due to an earthquake, we can make that a prison too.
I also thought when L.A. gets separated from the rest of California due to an earthquake, we can make that a prison too.
elprincipe
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 60 (100%)
[quote name='bmulligan']I thought that's where we were already keeping the criminals.[/QUOTE]
Just in Hollywood. Same with San Francisco, although that's a bit to the north.
Just in Hollywood. Same with San Francisco, although that's a bit to the north.
fatherofcaitlyn
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 82 (100%)
I remember this article back when el posted it.
Yeah ...
I'm suffering from some vertigo and a complete lack of being a lawyer, but my gut keeps telling me that he is guilty of something.
Let's try some hypotheticals. They're always fun, right?
The light blue spray is a tub. The brown spot is a toilet. The red stain is a gas water heater that has exploded and is currently spewing flames.
Scenario #1: "Me" wakes up to a fully developed fire and hurriedly exits the building. Both Zachary and Caitlyn die in their rooms. What is "Me" guilty of?
Scenario #2: Zachary wakes up in the middle of the night and drags "Me" to the couch. A few hours later, the fully developed fire occurs and "Me" hurriedly exits the building. Zachary dies on the couch. Caitlyn dies in her room. What is "Me" guilty of?
Scenario #3: Caitlyn crawls into bed with "Me" after having a nightmare. A few hours later, same fire occurs and "Me" hurriedly exits the building. Zachary dies in his room. Caitlyn dies in "Me"s room. What is "Me" guilty of?
Yeah ...
I'm suffering from some vertigo and a complete lack of being a lawyer, but my gut keeps telling me that he is guilty of something.
Let's try some hypotheticals. They're always fun, right?
The light blue spray is a tub. The brown spot is a toilet. The red stain is a gas water heater that has exploded and is currently spewing flames.
Scenario #1: "Me" wakes up to a fully developed fire and hurriedly exits the building. Both Zachary and Caitlyn die in their rooms. What is "Me" guilty of?
Scenario #2: Zachary wakes up in the middle of the night and drags "Me" to the couch. A few hours later, the fully developed fire occurs and "Me" hurriedly exits the building. Zachary dies on the couch. Caitlyn dies in her room. What is "Me" guilty of?
Scenario #3: Caitlyn crawls into bed with "Me" after having a nightmare. A few hours later, same fire occurs and "Me" hurriedly exits the building. Zachary dies in his room. Caitlyn dies in "Me"s room. What is "Me" guilty of?
fatherofcaitlyn
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 82 (100%)
[quote name='SpazX']Dude, did anybody at work see you while drawing up that nice picture in paint?[/QUOTE]
I'm home sick and lost my monthly bonus (damn it). My swine flu gave me a parting gift of vertigo. I haven't been able to drive for a few days. I do have meclizine, but that stuff knocks me out for hours.
EDIT: That and I'm having dozens of spelling errors.
I'm home sick and lost my monthly bonus (damn it). My swine flu gave me a parting gift of vertigo. I haven't been able to drive for a few days. I do have meclizine, but that stuff knocks me out for hours.
EDIT: That and I'm having dozens of spelling errors.
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']I'm home sick and lost my monthly bonus (damn it). My swine flu gave me a parting gift of vertigo. I haven't been able to drive for a few days. I do have meclizine, but that stuff knocks me out for hours.
EDIT: That and I'm having dozens of spelling errors.[/QUOTE]
Ah, that sucks. I guess I can look forward to more drug-induced paint diagrams on the vs. forums then...
EDIT: That and I'm having dozens of spelling errors.[/QUOTE]
Ah, that sucks. I guess I can look forward to more drug-induced paint diagrams on the vs. forums then...
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']...
The light blue spray is a tub. The brown spot is a toilet. The red stain is a gas water heater that has exploded and is currently spewing flames.
Scenario #1: "Me" wakes up to a fully developed fire and hurriedly exits the building. Both Zachary and Caitlyn die in their rooms. What is "Me" guilty of?[/quote]
Nothing if he had to exit to save his own life. manslaughter if he knew the gas heater was in disrepair or needed to be replaced.
Manslaughter, if me demonstrated a reckless indifference to human life by not saving Zach before exiting the building
Being a pervert for letting catlyn sleep in me's bed and second degree murder for demonstrating reckless indifference to human life while committing a felony sex crime with a minor.
The light blue spray is a tub. The brown spot is a toilet. The red stain is a gas water heater that has exploded and is currently spewing flames.
Scenario #1: "Me" wakes up to a fully developed fire and hurriedly exits the building. Both Zachary and Caitlyn die in their rooms. What is "Me" guilty of?[/quote]
Nothing if he had to exit to save his own life. manslaughter if he knew the gas heater was in disrepair or needed to be replaced.
Manslaughter, if me demonstrated a reckless indifference to human life by not saving Zach before exiting the building
Being a pervert for letting catlyn sleep in me's bed and second degree murder for demonstrating reckless indifference to human life while committing a felony sex crime with a minor.
bread's done