Ultimate Matt X
CAGiversary!
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Just messaged the Rams, hopefully we're good for setting something up by Sunday.
Madden 12 League-OFFICIAL CAG LEAGUE-Week 3 live. Deadline Monday night.
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ballhawk20
CAGiversary!
Saints defeat the panthers 28-17 in a closely contested matchup! The saints revenged there home playoff loss to the panthers in the NFC championship game! An are looking forward to there bye week an get a new game plan worked out!!
Deuce20602
CAGiversary!
[quote name='Doomtime']
That loss could spell the end to the Panther's season. If not, they're on eggshells.[/QUOTE]
yep... and with another matchup with the Saints, Falcons, the 6-1 Titans, and the Lions, i'm probably lookin at a 9-7 season... which sucks cuz i've never finished worse than 10-6 since i've been in the league.
That loss could spell the end to the Panther's season. If not, they're on eggshells.[/QUOTE]
yep... and with another matchup with the Saints, Falcons, the 6-1 Titans, and the Lions, i'm probably lookin at a 9-7 season... which sucks cuz i've never finished worse than 10-6 since i've been in the league.
[quote name='Deuce20602']yep... and with another matchup with the Saints, Falcons, the 6-1 Titans, and the Lions, i'm probably lookin at a 9-7 season... which sucks cuz i've never finished worse than 10-6 since i've been in the league.[/QUOTE]
Not until the last quarter of the season though. Win these next four, get a little confidence going out there in Carolina, then ride that wave into those last games.
I was hoping for a rematch!
Not until the last quarter of the season though. Win these next four, get a little confidence going out there in Carolina, then ride that wave into those last games.
I was hoping for a rematch!
We have a big 
ing problem in the Chargers-Patriots game. After staging a comeback in the 4th to cut it to a 7 point game, the Chargers had 0 timeouts left and 33 seconds left, and instead of sending out the onside kick unit, he deliberately sends out the main unit to do a surprise onside kick, which obviously the standard unit could not recover.
That is the most bush league ranked much bullshit thing I have ever seen in this league. I am advocating an immediate boot, but I will let ubernes decide.
ing problem in the Chargers-Patriots game. After staging a comeback in the 4th to cut it to a 7 point game, the Chargers had 0 timeouts left and 33 seconds left, and instead of sending out the onside kick unit, he deliberately sends out the main unit to do a surprise onside kick, which obviously the standard unit could not recover.That is the most bush league ranked much bullshit thing I have ever seen in this league. I am advocating an immediate boot, but I will let ubernes decide.
Deuce20602
CAGiversary!
[quote name='bvharris']We have a big ing problem in the Chargers-Patriots game. After staging a comeback in the 4th to cut it to a 7 point game, the Chargers had 0 timeouts left and 33 seconds left, and instead of sending out the onside kick unit, he deliberately sends out the main unit to do a surprise onside kick, which obviously the standard unit could not recover.
That is the most bush league ranked much bullshit thing I have ever seen in this league. I am advocating an immediate boot, but I will let ubernes decide.[/QUOTE]
shut that shit up... the surprise onside is a surprise for a reason... and it was never banned. it was a smart move on his part since he has no TOs.
ing problem in the Chargers-Patriots game. After staging a comeback in the 4th to cut it to a 7 point game, the Chargers had 0 timeouts left and 33 seconds left, and instead of sending out the onside kick unit, he deliberately sends out the main unit to do a surprise onside kick, which obviously the standard unit could not recover.That is the most bush league ranked much bullshit thing I have ever seen in this league. I am advocating an immediate boot, but I will let ubernes decide.[/QUOTE]
shut that shit up... the surprise onside is a surprise for a reason... and it was never banned. it was a smart move on his part since he has no TOs.
ballhawk20
CAGiversary!
We never banned that surprise onside kick so idk y ur bitching about it!!
gbpackers94
CAGiversary!
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Ban seems too harsh, but the #1 rule of the league is to play as a nfl coach would. No coach would ever do a surprise onside kick in that situation, so bv has a right to be mad. He shouldn't be banned though.
[quote name='Deuce20602']shut that shit up... the surprise onside is a surprise for a reason... and it was never banned. it was a smart move on his part since he has no TOs.[/QUOTE]
Deuce, are youing braindead? He was 7 points down, 0 timeouts, 33 seconds. There was absolutely no other play but an onside kick there. He sent out the main unit deliberately to try and gain an advantage against the onside kick recover formation I would obviously be in, you know the one with nobody lined up in the middle?
Use youring brain.
Deuce, are you
ing braindead? He was 7 points down, 0 timeouts, 33 seconds. There was absolutely no other play but an onside kick there. He sent out the main unit deliberately to try and gain an advantage against the onside kick recover formation I would obviously be in, you know the one with nobody lined up in the middle?Use your
ing brain.[quote name='augmog']I think that its a legit play in that situation teams do it in the NFL today I just think your crying a lil BV....did you win the game?[/QUOTE]
You honestly think any team would do a SURPRISE onside kick with 33 seconds left and no timeouts and literally no other way to win besides recovering an onside kick? Really?
You honestly think any team would do a SURPRISE onside kick with 33 seconds left and no timeouts and literally no other way to win besides recovering an onside kick? Really?
Deuce20602
CAGiversary!
[quote name='bvharris']Deuce, are you ing braindead? He was 7 points down, 0 timeouts, 33 seconds. There was absolutely no other play but an onside kick there. He sent out the main unit deliberately to try and gain an advantage against the onside kick recover formation I would obviously be in, you know the one with nobody lined up in the middle?
Use youring brain.[/QUOTE]
how bout u use yours u crybaby... the whole point of the surprise onside is to catch the other team offguard. thats your fault for not calling the audible to the normal return formation.
ing braindead? He was 7 points down, 0 timeouts, 33 seconds. There was absolutely no other play but an onside kick there. He sent out the main unit deliberately to try and gain an advantage against the onside kick recover formation I would obviously be in, you know the one with nobody lined up in the middle?Use your
ing brain.[/QUOTE]how bout u use yours u crybaby... the whole point of the surprise onside is to catch the other team offguard. thats your fault for not calling the audible to the normal return formation.
I feel like there's a very good chance those of you defending it don't realize exactly what he did. Or maybe it's just the default position to disagree with whatever I say. Whatever. Every single person in this league would be shooting steam out of their ears if someone had just done what he did, I 100% guarantee it.
augmog
CAGiversary!
[quote name='bvharris']You honestly think any team would do a SURPRISE onside kick with 33 seconds left and no timeouts and literally no other way to win besides recovering an onside kick? Really?[/QUOTE]
Honestly I've seen teams try this in this situation with intention to trick the opposing return team. but there is no option for it all you can really do is try to recover....Its a 50-50 chance
Honestly I've seen teams try this in this situation with intention to trick the opposing return team. but there is no option for it all you can really do is try to recover....Its a 50-50 chance
ballhawk20
CAGiversary!
U never banned it so it wouldn't matter if it happened to me, it's called a suprise for a reason!!
[quote name='augmog']Honestly I've seen teams try this in this situation with intention to trick the opposing return team. but there is no option for it all you can really do is try to recover[/QUOTE]
There's no trickery involved. If he doesn't onside kick, the chances of him winning are 0%. There is literally no play in that situation other than onside kick. You line up, you kick it, and you take your chances. There's no defensive formation in Madden for "Onside Kick Recover... but also leave a couple guys in the middle in case they try some bullshit". If you can find me that play in the Madden playbook, I'll use it next time.
There's no gray area here. It was bullshit, plain and simple.
[quote name='ballhawk20']U never banned it so it wouldn't matter if it happened to me, it's called a suprise for a reason!![/QUOTE]
There's no surprise. He literally had absolutely no other option other than to onside kick it. What he did was try to gain an unfair advantage over what the normal percentage in that situation would be. That's not cool.
There's no trickery involved. If he doesn't onside kick, the chances of him winning are 0%. There is literally no play in that situation other than onside kick. You line up, you kick it, and you take your chances. There's no defensive formation in Madden for "Onside Kick Recover... but also leave a couple guys in the middle in case they try some bullshit". If you can find me that play in the Madden playbook, I'll use it next time.
There's no gray area here. It was bullshit, plain and simple.
[quote name='ballhawk20']U never banned it so it wouldn't matter if it happened to me, it's called a suprise for a reason!![/QUOTE]
There's no surprise. He literally had absolutely no other option other than to onside kick it. What he did was try to gain an unfair advantage over what the normal percentage in that situation would be. That's not cool.
Deuce20602
CAGiversary!
[quote name='bvharris']I feel like there's a very good chance those of you defending it don't realize exactly what he did. Or maybe it's just the default position to disagree with whatever I say. Whatever. Every single person in this league would be shooting steam out of their ears if someone had just done what he did, I 100% guarantee it.[/QUOTE]
if ur guaranteeing it, i want money back cuz i did it to ballhawk in our game and he had no issue with it whatsoever... i think ur in bitch mode cuz u didnt recover it. You won the game so STFU.
SINDENOTE: I like how everything that's banned(with the exception of Tanabeo's QB subbing) was banned cuz it happened to you in a game and u felt it was cheap, and exploitative cuz u couldnt figure out a way to combat it.
if ur guaranteeing it, i want money back cuz i did it to ballhawk in our game and he had no issue with it whatsoever... i think ur in bitch mode cuz u didnt recover it. You won the game so STFU.
SINDENOTE: I like how everything that's banned(with the exception of Tanabeo's QB subbing) was banned cuz it happened to you in a game and u felt it was cheap, and exploitative cuz u couldnt figure out a way to combat it.
damailman2272
CAGiversary!
lol i honestly see nothing wrong with what i did people have done the suprise oneside kick to me. i had previously brought the issue up and people told me it was legal. beseti did to me and i was pissed. but it was legal as for as i know. furthermore you were doing so questionable things in the game such as running your linebacker back and forth then waitng for him to get engaged so you could run by my tacke every play it seem to that to a glitch. also the jumping in between a gaps was odd to because for some odd reason you came through completely unblocked.
ballhawk20
CAGiversary!
But I also heard that u use a linebacker a run all the way to end n when the right tackle get engaged with the de you run unblocked there's no way to stop that neither brother!!
Deuce20602
CAGiversary!
[quote name='bvharris']I think you don't remotely understand what occurred and you're just being a colossal prick because you don't like me. I don't give a what you think.[/QUOTE]
didnt ask if u give a flying shit what i think. Your bitching about what amounts to a personal preference, and it's ridiculous. You wanna argue technicalities, we can do that but leave the "Real NFL Teams dont..." out of it cuz from what i hear and what i've seen in games with others, there's a lot of shit that goes on that doesnt happen in a real NFL game.
and whether i like you or not has nothing to do with it... i've never met u so i cant pass judgement one way or the other. I just know there aint a problem til it happens to bitchvaginaharris, then all hell breaks loose.
what you think.[/QUOTE]didnt ask if u give a flying shit what i think. Your bitching about what amounts to a personal preference, and it's ridiculous. You wanna argue technicalities, we can do that but leave the "Real NFL Teams dont..." out of it cuz from what i hear and what i've seen in games with others, there's a lot of shit that goes on that doesnt happen in a real NFL game.
and whether i like you or not has nothing to do with it... i've never met u so i cant pass judgement one way or the other. I just know there aint a problem til it happens to bitchvaginaharris, then all hell breaks loose.
augmog
CAGiversary!
[quote name='bvharris']There's no trickery involved. If he doesn't onside kick, the chances of him winning are 0%. There is literally no play in that situation other than onside kick. You line up, you kick it, and you take your chances. There's no defensive formation in Madden for "Onside Kick Recover... but also leave a couple guys in the middle in case they try some bullshit". If you can find me that play in the Madden playbook, I'll use it next time.
There's no gray area here. It was bullshit, plain and simple.
There's no surprise. He literally had absolutely no other option other than to onside kick it. What he did was try to gain an unfair advantage over what the normal percentage in that situation would be. That's not cool.[/QUOTE]
there is no return to counter that that y its 50-50
There's no gray area here. It was bullshit, plain and simple.
There's no surprise. He literally had absolutely no other option other than to onside kick it. What he did was try to gain an unfair advantage over what the normal percentage in that situation would be. That's not cool.[/QUOTE]
there is no return to counter that that y its 50-50
[quote name='damailman2272']lol i honestly see nothing wrong with what i did people have done the suprise oneside kick to me. i had previously brought the issue up and people told me it was legal. [/QUOTE]
Why not just kick a regular onside kick? There's no element of "surprise" here, I obviously knew you were kicking one. You chose to run something that the onside kick return formation (which you obviously knew I'd be in) had basically no chance to recover. The fact that none of my guys came within 5 yards of the ball is evidence enough of that.
Could I have called a timeout and switched to a regular kick return formation? Sure. But then for all I know you'd come out in a regular onside kick formation and then I don't have my hands team on the field.
I don't see why there is any other thing to do there other than just line up for the onside kick and take your chances, which is what every NFL team would do.
Why not just kick a regular onside kick? There's no element of "surprise" here, I obviously knew you were kicking one. You chose to run something that the onside kick return formation (which you obviously knew I'd be in) had basically no chance to recover. The fact that none of my guys came within 5 yards of the ball is evidence enough of that.
Could I have called a timeout and switched to a regular kick return formation? Sure. But then for all I know you'd come out in a regular onside kick formation and then I don't have my hands team on the field.
I don't see why there is any other thing to do there other than just line up for the onside kick and take your chances, which is what every NFL team would do.
It's bush league but I don't think he should be booted because the receiving team picked their play before he did. If he is going to kick an onside kick the formation is shown, also an audible could've been called.
It may be cheap but it isn't worthy if being banned and the receiving team could've adjusted. We've got people doing a lot worse in here and nothing is being said about it.
It may be cheap but it isn't worthy if being banned and the receiving team could've adjusted. We've got people doing a lot worse in here and nothing is being said about it.
[quote name='ballhawk20']But I also heard that u use a linebacker a run all the way to end n when the right tackle get engaged with the de you run unblocked there's no way to stop that neither brother!![/QUOTE]
I got a grand total of 2 sacks with a blitzing linebacker on 47 pass plays, so apparently it's not quite as unstoppable as you might think. At least 3/4 of the time someone picks up the blitzer, I know from experience. My linebackers almost never get sacks on the season, you can check the stats (edit: 8 linebacker sacks in 8 games).
We've talked about my shifting and moving linebackers before, it's not like it's something I'm doing in secret. I said if anyone could provide documentation that it was giving me some undue advantage I wouldn't do it. It's not about being unblockable (because trust me it isn't), it's about being in rhythm at the snap.
I got a grand total of 2 sacks with a blitzing linebacker on 47 pass plays, so apparently it's not quite as unstoppable as you might think. At least 3/4 of the time someone picks up the blitzer, I know from experience. My linebackers almost never get sacks on the season, you can check the stats (edit: 8 linebacker sacks in 8 games).
We've talked about my shifting and moving linebackers before, it's not like it's something I'm doing in secret. I said if anyone could provide documentation that it was giving me some undue advantage I wouldn't do it. It's not about being unblockable (because trust me it isn't), it's about being in rhythm at the snap.
[quote name='gbpackers94']Ban seems too harsh, but the #1 rule of the league is to play as a nfl coach would. No coach would ever do a surprise onside kick in that situation, so bv has a right to be mad. He shouldn't be banned though.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's certainly too harsh. Obviously I said that in the heat of the moment, now that I've calmed down a bit I don't think it's something worth banning him over.
But as GB points out, it's just not a remotely realistic play in that situation, which is really the core of what I'm upset about. It ruined what was a really good game up to that point, and probably would have been the best comeback I've ever seen if he'd actually pulled it off (cleanly).
Edit: I have no problem with the surprise onside kick in general. I've probably only used it once myself, but I've certainly run fake punts and field goals from time to time, it's part of the game. People have run it against me before, both successful and not, and it's never bothered me. But "surprise" means just that, it's used when the defense isn't expecting it. It's not intended to be a more effective substitute for when the onside kick is the only play. That's my interpretation anyway, and I firmly believe it's the correct one.
Yeah, it's certainly too harsh. Obviously I said that in the heat of the moment, now that I've calmed down a bit I don't think it's something worth banning him over.
But as GB points out, it's just not a remotely realistic play in that situation, which is really the core of what I'm upset about. It ruined what was a really good game up to that point, and probably would have been the best comeback I've ever seen if he'd actually pulled it off (cleanly).
Edit: I have no problem with the surprise onside kick in general. I've probably only used it once myself, but I've certainly run fake punts and field goals from time to time, it's part of the game. People have run it against me before, both successful and not, and it's never bothered me. But "surprise" means just that, it's used when the defense isn't expecting it. It's not intended to be a more effective substitute for when the onside kick is the only play. That's my interpretation anyway, and I firmly believe it's the correct one.
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Appleinthetree
CAGiversary!
That onside surprise kick is something you would run into while playing a ranked madden match, where exploits win games and large leads lead to disconnects. I do not think this should be a banable offense but a rule like the qb sneak. Don't do the sneaky onside kick, man up and do it right.
[quote name='Appleinthetree']That onside surprise kick is something you would run into while playing a ranked madden match, where exploits win games and large leads lead to disconnects. I do not think this should be a banable offense but a rule like the qb sneak. Don't do the sneaky onside kick, man up and do it right.[/QUOTE]
I don't really care if people do it when it's actually a surprise. I've considered doing it against guys like Doom coming out of the half where I feel like I need to try anything to win (though I don't think I actually have). It's something NFL teams do, I don't have a problem with it. This was certainly a completely different situation than how I've ever seen it used though, and I believe an exploitative one. It wasn't about surprise as much as it was about gaining an undue advantage in a situation where there was only one possible play.
Anyway, I think everyone's said their piece on the matter, I know I have. I no longer think he should be booted, but I do think it deserves a strike. I'll let ubernes decide that, obviously I'm biased and shouldn't be making that decision.
I don't really care if people do it when it's actually a surprise. I've considered doing it against guys like Doom coming out of the half where I feel like I need to try anything to win (though I don't think I actually have). It's something NFL teams do, I don't have a problem with it. This was certainly a completely different situation than how I've ever seen it used though, and I believe an exploitative one. It wasn't about surprise as much as it was about gaining an undue advantage in a situation where there was only one possible play.
Anyway, I think everyone's said their piece on the matter, I know I have. I no longer think he should be booted, but I do think it deserves a strike. I'll let ubernes decide that, obviously I'm biased and shouldn't be making that decision.
sprice8688
CAGiversary!
i thinn the surprise onside kick is a bullshit play in general thats been brought up before that noone wanted banned so thats on u guys for not.banning it.... u shouldnt be able to.say what onside kick he should do... its a clean play in my book i like it... i think ur more pissed cause it.finally almost ed u
ed usprice8688
CAGiversary!
[quote name='bvharris']I don't really care if people do it when it's actually a surprise. I've considered doing it against guys like Doom coming out of the half where I feel like I need to try anything to win (though I don't think I actually have). It's something NFL teams do, I don't have a problem with it. This was certainly a completely different situation than how I've ever seen it used though, and I believe an exploitative one. It wasn't about surprise as much as it was about gaining an undue advantage in a situation where there was only one possible play.
Anyway, I think everyone's said their piece on the matter, I know I have. I no longer think he should be booted, but I do think it deserves a strike. I'll let ubernes decide that, obviously I'm biased and shouldn't be making that decision.[/QUOTE]
a strike is bullshit .... it shouldnt be allowed if.there are strikes for it...
Anyway, I think everyone's said their piece on the matter, I know I have. I no longer think he should be booted, but I do think it deserves a strike. I'll let ubernes decide that, obviously I'm biased and shouldn't be making that decision.[/QUOTE]
a strike is bullshit .... it shouldnt be allowed if.there are strikes for it...
augmog
CAGiversary!
[quote name='bvharris']I don't really care if people do it when it's actually a surprise. I've considered doing it against guys like Doom coming out of the half where I feel like I need to try anything to win (though I don't think I actually have). It's something NFL teams do, I don't have a problem with it. This was certainly a completely different situation than how I've ever seen it used though, and I believe an exploitative one. It wasn't about surprise as much as it was about gaining an undue advantage in a situation where there was only one possible play.
Anyway, I think everyone's said their piece on the matter, I know I have. I no longer think he should be booted, but I do think it deserves a strike. I'll let ubernes decide that, obviously I'm biased and shouldn't be making that decision.[/QUOTE]
i dont think he deserves a strike....The kick was never banned or no one said he couldnt do it in that situation
Anyway, I think everyone's said their piece on the matter, I know I have. I no longer think he should be booted, but I do think it deserves a strike. I'll let ubernes decide that, obviously I'm biased and shouldn't be making that decision.[/QUOTE]
i dont think he deserves a strike....The kick was never banned or no one said he couldnt do it in that situation
[quote name='sprice8688']i think ur more pissed cause it.finally almost ed u[/QUOTE]
I'm not. I'm upset because it was bush league, and I didn't think it was in the spirit of the league. If it had happened to anyone else in this league I'd have the exact same opinion on it. You guys can choose to believe that or not, but it's true.
ed u[/QUOTE]I'm not. I'm upset because it was bush league, and I didn't think it was in the spirit of the league. If it had happened to anyone else in this league I'd have the exact same opinion on it. You guys can choose to believe that or not, but it's true.
augmog
CAGiversary!
[quote name='bvharris']I'm not. I'm upset because it was bush league, and I didn't think it was in the spirit of the league. If it had happened to anyone else in this league I'd have the exact same opinion on it. You guys can choose to believe that or not, but it's true.[/QUOTE]
its happen to me between me and doom... i brought it to the leagues attention and no one had a problem with it just like sprice said. so i feel its a fair play
its happen to me between me and doom... i brought it to the leagues attention and no one had a problem with it just like sprice said. so i feel its a fair play
[quote name='sprice8688']a strike is bullshit .... it shouldnt be allowed if.there are strikes for it...[/QUOTE]
[quote name='augmog']i dont think he deserves a strike....The kick was never banned or no one said he couldnt do it in that situation[/QUOTE]
As far as I'm concerned, it shouldn't be allowed as a substitute for a regular onside kick. We're talking about extremely narrow circumstances here, which I think is being lost in the discussion. If you're in a situation where you might onside kick, but might not, I think it's fine. But in a situation where there's literally no other choice but to onside kick in order to have a chance to win the game (as was the case here), I just don't see how running the "surprise" kick as a substitute for a regular onside kick is reasonable.
If it's a choice between banning the play under those conditions and giving him a strike, I'll take the former. It's not about a personal vendetta because he did it against me, it's about what's in the interest of fairness.
Personally I would have thought not doing that would be common sense in this league, but you guys are right that he was never specifically told not to do it.
[quote name='augmog']i dont think he deserves a strike....The kick was never banned or no one said he couldnt do it in that situation[/QUOTE]
As far as I'm concerned, it shouldn't be allowed as a substitute for a regular onside kick. We're talking about extremely narrow circumstances here, which I think is being lost in the discussion. If you're in a situation where you might onside kick, but might not, I think it's fine. But in a situation where there's literally no other choice but to onside kick in order to have a chance to win the game (as was the case here), I just don't see how running the "surprise" kick as a substitute for a regular onside kick is reasonable.
If it's a choice between banning the play under those conditions and giving him a strike, I'll take the former. It's not about a personal vendetta because he did it against me, it's about what's in the interest of fairness.
Personally I would have thought not doing that would be common sense in this league, but you guys are right that he was never specifically told not to do it.
[quote name='augmog']its happen to me between me and doom... i brought it to the leagues attention and no one had a problem with it just like sprice said. so i feel its a fair play[/QUOTE]
It happened in this exact situation where there was literally no other choice but to do an onside kick in order to have a chance to win (no timeouts, opponent able to kill the clock, etc)? If so, can you find the post where you brought it to the league's attention? I'm not being sarcastic here, I'm serious.
Edit: I found it in the other league:
[quote name='augmog']what is the rule on the kickoff surprise onside kick?
I had a game with Doomtime last and it was a good game. But there was 1:31 left in the game and Doom is down 3 with all three timeouts instead of kicking the onside kick he kicks the surprise onside kick which I feel like is bs. If Doom was going for the onside kick I feel as though he should of kick a regular onside kick instead of that.[/QUOTE]
And Doom's response:
[quote name='Doomtime']I could have done a regular kick off as well and just played defense. I just took a chance with the surprise kick. I thought we said that wasn't outlawed?[/QUOTE]
The difference in the two situations seems pretty clear to me: Doom had all three timeouts, so he could have reasonably kicked off and there was a chance he could get the ball back if he prevented you from getting a 1st down. In the case of this game, there was no situation in which the Chargers would actually have kicked it deep, which removes the "surprise" element. Doesn't it?
It happened in this exact situation where there was literally no other choice but to do an onside kick in order to have a chance to win (no timeouts, opponent able to kill the clock, etc)? If so, can you find the post where you brought it to the league's attention? I'm not being sarcastic here, I'm serious.
Edit: I found it in the other league:
[quote name='augmog']what is the rule on the kickoff surprise onside kick?
I had a game with Doomtime last and it was a good game. But there was 1:31 left in the game and Doom is down 3 with all three timeouts instead of kicking the onside kick he kicks the surprise onside kick which I feel like is bs. If Doom was going for the onside kick I feel as though he should of kick a regular onside kick instead of that.[/QUOTE]
And Doom's response:
[quote name='Doomtime']I could have done a regular kick off as well and just played defense. I just took a chance with the surprise kick. I thought we said that wasn't outlawed?[/QUOTE]
The difference in the two situations seems pretty clear to me: Doom had all three timeouts, so he could have reasonably kicked off and there was a chance he could get the ball back if he prevented you from getting a 1st down. In the case of this game, there was no situation in which the Chargers would actually have kicked it deep, which removes the "surprise" element. Doesn't it?
augmog
CAGiversary!
[quote name='bvharris']It happened in this exact situation where there was literally no other choice but to do an onside kick in order to have a chance to win (no timeouts, opponent able to kill the clock, etc)? If so, can you find the post where you brought it to the league's attention? I'm not being sarcastic here, I'm serious.[/QUOTE]
it not that big of a deal and no it wasnt i think it was about 2:30 left and he had 3 timeouts and did it and got it back and it wasnt like i was running up and down the field either he did win the game in ot. but dont quote me
But it was never banned and is a fair play.....now it seems like since it happen to you now we will be giving strikes and adding more guidelines
it not that big of a deal and no it wasnt i think it was about 2:30 left and he had 3 timeouts and did it and got it back and it wasnt like i was running up and down the field either he did win the game in ot. but dont quote me
But it was never banned and is a fair play.....now it seems like since it happen to you now we will be giving strikes and adding more guidelines
There were three choices for the receiving team -
A) Wait until you see the formation
B) Call a timeout and wait until you see the formation
C) Audible
In my opinion, strikes and punishments should only be given when there is no counter. There were three counters in this particular situation, on top of everything else it didn't affect the outcome.
A) Wait until you see the formation
B) Call a timeout and wait until you see the formation
C) Audible
In my opinion, strikes and punishments should only be given when there is no counter. There were three counters in this particular situation, on top of everything else it didn't affect the outcome.
augmog
CAGiversary!
[quote name='staticz']There were three choices for the receiving team -
A) Wait until you see the formation
B) Call a timeout and wait until you see the formation
C) Audible
In my opinion, strikes and punishments should only be given when there is no counter. There were three counters in this particular situation, on top of everything else it didn't affect the outcome.[/QUOTE]
great point staticz i agree
A) Wait until you see the formation
B) Call a timeout and wait until you see the formation
C) Audible
In my opinion, strikes and punishments should only be given when there is no counter. There were three counters in this particular situation, on top of everything else it didn't affect the outcome.[/QUOTE]
great point staticz i agree
[quote name='augmog']now it seems like since it happen to you now we will be giving strikes and adding more guidelines[/QUOTE]
I mean, you can say this if you want, obviously there's no actual way I can prove to you that I'd have the exact same opinion on it if it had happened to someone else, but I would. All you have is my word.
I'll reiterate, I'm only talking about a very specific set of circumstances in which there is literally no other play available but to attempt an onside kick.
I mean, you can say this if you want, obviously there's no actual way I can prove to you that I'd have the exact same opinion on it if it had happened to someone else, but I would. All you have is my word.
I'll reiterate, I'm only talking about a very specific set of circumstances in which there is literally no other play available but to attempt an onside kick.
[quote name='staticz']There were three choices for the receiving team -
A) Wait until you see the formation
B) Call a timeout and wait until you see the formation
C) Audible
In my opinion, strikes and punishments should only be given when there is no counter. There were three counters in this particular situation, on top of everything else it didn't affect the outcome.[/QUOTE]
I don't disagree with any of this, but it doesn't conflict with the core point I'm making. Whether it could be countered isn't really relevant to whether the play was fair in that situation.
To me, the fundamental question behind every play in this league which is debatable is this: Is it being deliberately done to try and gain an advantage above and beyond what you would reasonably see done in a football game?
In the situation we're talking about (33 seconds left, no timeouts, down by 7), you would never see an NFL team walk out onto the field as if they were kicking it deep (which is what the regular kickoff formation is). There's absolutely no element of surprise at this point, every person in the stadium knows it's going to be an onside kick. So to run the "surprise kick" as a substitute for the regular onside kick (when there's no other option on the table) is what the issue is.
A) Wait until you see the formation
B) Call a timeout and wait until you see the formation
C) Audible
In my opinion, strikes and punishments should only be given when there is no counter. There were three counters in this particular situation, on top of everything else it didn't affect the outcome.[/QUOTE]
I don't disagree with any of this, but it doesn't conflict with the core point I'm making. Whether it could be countered isn't really relevant to whether the play was fair in that situation.
To me, the fundamental question behind every play in this league which is debatable is this: Is it being deliberately done to try and gain an advantage above and beyond what you would reasonably see done in a football game?
In the situation we're talking about (33 seconds left, no timeouts, down by 7), you would never see an NFL team walk out onto the field as if they were kicking it deep (which is what the regular kickoff formation is). There's absolutely no element of surprise at this point, every person in the stadium knows it's going to be an onside kick. So to run the "surprise kick" as a substitute for the regular onside kick (when there's no other option on the table) is what the issue is.
DVO21
CAGiversary!
i agree with everyone else if u would have been patient and waited for him to call his play first this would even be a big deal. and if u called a timeout and waited for him to call his play for this wouldnt be a big deal. or did an audible this still wouldnt be an issue.
i think u have no one to blame but urself for not thinknig of these counters during game time urself and now ur taking out ur frustrations out on him for out smarting u clearly
i think u have no one to blame but urself for not thinknig of these counters during game time urself and now ur taking out ur frustrations out on him for out smarting u clearly
BSETI50
CAGiversary!
Its also the type of kick that maybe people prefer. The regular onsides is more of a hope for a bounce situation. The surpise onsides is more of a kick n chase. They should add that type of onsides without the surprise because it is very common in real life. You do see teams kicking it like the surprise onsides late in games. Infact id say more teams do it that way now that the tradsitional high hop onsides.
[quote name='DVO21']now ur taking out ur frustrations out on him for out smarting u clearly[/QUOTE]
You're entitled to your opinion. Let's please keep it civil.
I would have exactly the same opinion if I was not involved in the situation. I'm telling you that, that's my word. If you think I'm a liar, and that I'm just letting emotions impact my opinion.. so be it, that's your choice.
[quote name='BSETI50']They should add that type of onsides without the surprise because it is very common in real life. [/QUOTE]
I agree that there should be more variety to the onside kick plays in the game. That's not the Madden world we live in though.
You're entitled to your opinion. Let's please keep it civil.
I would have exactly the same opinion if I was not involved in the situation. I'm telling you that, that's my word. If you think I'm a liar, and that I'm just letting emotions impact my opinion.. so be it, that's your choice.
[quote name='BSETI50']They should add that type of onsides without the surprise because it is very common in real life. [/QUOTE]
I agree that there should be more variety to the onside kick plays in the game. That's not the Madden world we live in though.
DVO21
CAGiversary!
seriously ur telling me to be civil im the jags a shitty team that i try and make work i get my ass kicked every game excluding one and ur on here bitching about a game situation that didnt really seem to effect ur game and ur crying about a game u won. sorry but i dont feel ur pain. and as far as the rules go he played fair and i dont even see the reasoning behind even giving him a strike when ur trying to make a new rule and punish him with a strike with something he did b4 the rule was even in effect if it even does go into a effect and i think that if he got a strike then anyone else who has ever done it would have to be given a strike as well to be fair. and to punish someone for a rule that they didnt break becuz it didnt exist at the time wouldnt fair since in real life u cant be punished for a law u broke b4 it was a law just saying bro
not trying to be a dick head but i speak my mind and say it exactly how i feel it
not trying to be a dick head but i speak my mind and say it exactly how i feel it
[quote name='DVO21']seriously ur telling me to be civil[/QUOTE]
Yes, because I've said repeatedly that this would be my opinion regardless of whether I was involved in the situation. That's the truth. Yes, I had an angry response to it at first, but I'm no longer angry about it and I still believe the same thing I did in the heat of the moment. I'm fine with being disagreed with, I just don't appreciate being told I'm only butthurt, because that's not the case. It's a free country, you guys can believe that if you want, I can't stop you. I don't have to like it though, that makes it personal and I don't appreciate it.
In any case, I've laid out my case for why I think it was not an appropriate action in that situation. I've presented the facts of the game and my interpretation of the circumstances. It's obvious that a lot of you disagree with me, I respect everyone's right to have an opinion on the matter. I'm not going to go on some grand crusade to convince you I'm right, because I'm probably not going to convince any of you. I think what he did should be against the rules in the very narrow circumstance in which it occurred. I'm going to let ubernes decide on that, if he agrees with those of you who didn't have a problem with it, I'll respect that and move on (and be ready for seeing it in the future, as I'm sure I will if it's allowed).
At this point it's best if we just move on. Everything's been said.
Yes, because I've said repeatedly that this would be my opinion regardless of whether I was involved in the situation. That's the truth. Yes, I had an angry response to it at first, but I'm no longer angry about it and I still believe the same thing I did in the heat of the moment. I'm fine with being disagreed with, I just don't appreciate being told I'm only butthurt, because that's not the case. It's a free country, you guys can believe that if you want, I can't stop you. I don't have to like it though, that makes it personal and I don't appreciate it.
In any case, I've laid out my case for why I think it was not an appropriate action in that situation. I've presented the facts of the game and my interpretation of the circumstances. It's obvious that a lot of you disagree with me, I respect everyone's right to have an opinion on the matter. I'm not going to go on some grand crusade to convince you I'm right, because I'm probably not going to convince any of you. I think what he did should be against the rules in the very narrow circumstance in which it occurred. I'm going to let ubernes decide on that, if he agrees with those of you who didn't have a problem with it, I'll respect that and move on (and be ready for seeing it in the future, as I'm sure I will if it's allowed).
At this point it's best if we just move on. Everything's been said.
gbpackers94
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
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Here's my opinion:
1. Ban it in those circumstances, under 2 min in a definite onside kick situation.
2. No punishment for damailman.
1. Ban it in those circumstances, under 2 min in a definite onside kick situation.
2. No punishment for damailman.
- Status
bread's done