Madden 12 League-OFFICIAL CAG LEAGUE-Week 3 live. Deadline Monday night.

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[quote name='staticz']It doesn't work. When the d pulls the guy back your tackle follows him creating more issues.[/QUOTE]

That's the heart of the issue for me. The offensive line AI makes their blocks based on the front they're presented with. I haven't seen it in action, but I suspect that like you said the guard/tackle would follow him out there, creating a whole in your blocking scheme.

[quote name='staticz']I hope you can prove that. Half the people that play Madden don't even know what a damn nano is.[/QUOTE]

Of course he can't/doesn't. I play the same way in every game, I think if I were nano blitzing we probably would have sussed it out after 3 years. :roll:
 
Bv what you do is manipulative. U run around with your lb until the ball is snapped then shoot thru. Its retarded, u don't see lb's running side to side like retards pre snap in real life. I move my lb around but not so I can cheat and get a boost thru the gap. That shit should be banned too its ranked match bullshit. Its one thing to time a snap and get thru, its another to move your linebacker side to side so u can get an automatic boost once the ball is snapped
 
Yeah, you're 110% wrong. We've been over this in the thread before, and we're not re-hashing it. If you want to make a complaint about someone in the league doing something, you bring some fucking proof. Don't crawl out of the woodwork weeks later and throw some shit at the wall without having something to back it up with. I don't care if it's me or anyone, throwing around accusations without backing them up has gone unchecked in this thread for too long.

I didn't sack your quarterback either, for something that is "bullshit" it clearly isn't very effective, is it? There is NO speed boost from how I control my linebackers, we've been over this again and again. You think there is? Let's have some proof.

Look, I'm sorry you guys thought you were going to beat me and I beat you instead. Pick yourself up off the ground and deal with it.
 
this has nothing to do with who won the game or sacks. it affects every play. i just dont see why you need to run side to side like a fuckin idiot if it doesnt do anything. dont bullshit me and tell me it doesnt do anything because it does and you know it.
 
its just not football. linebackers dont run side to side like retards pre snap. they may wonder over to the TE, act like theyre in man. maybe show blitz. maybe back way off. but they dont do what you do and i think everyone in here would agree with that. its just not football. it doesnt happen on sundays, so i assume it shouldnt happen here. but im not commish, you are.
 
[quote name='BSETI50']this has nothing to do with who won the game or sacks. it affects every play. i just dont see why you need to run side to side like a fuckin idiot if it doesnt do anything. dont bullshit me and tell me it doesnt do anything because it does and you know it.[/QUOTE]

It doesn't, and I know it. Don't presume to tell me what I know or think. I do it frequently, if it provided a speed boost I would have noticed it. It just doesn't.

Why not instead of being a dick and assuming why I do it, you ask me why I do it? Or find the last time in the thread it came up where I explained it in detail.

For your benefit, I'll explain it again: I do it to keep myself in rhythm on defense, I find that I can react to a play (be it pass or run) much better when my hands are already doing something before the snap rather than just sitting there waiting. My linebackers have 0 sacks on the season, and thus far on the season only 6 teams have allowed a higher per carry average on runs. So saying it "affects every play" is just words, it has absolutely no correlation with reality.

I said this last time and I'll say it again: Present even one microscopic shred of evidence that doing that provides this mystical "speed boost" you seem so sure about, and I'll never do it again.

Or maybe instead of shooting off your mouth you could do some actual research and then you'd learn that my linebackers are just fast on their own: Wake is 84, Guyton and Mayo are both 85. Both Wake and Mayo have an ACC over 90, Guyton's is 85. Fast linebackers move fast.

I know complaining is fun, but if you want to have a real discussion bring some evidence to support your claims and not just this "it's bullshit and you know it" whining garbage.

[quote name='BSETI50']but im not commish, you are.[/QUOTE]

This isn't about that. Bring me some evidence that it provides a speed boost or some other unfair advantage and I'll ban it right now.
 
thats teh lamest excuse. u want ur hands to already be moving? cmon dude that the weakest shit ive ever heard. so move them. move ur guy around. thats not what ur doing tho. your moving so that once the ball is snapped you get the boost thru the line. its the same as blocking a fg, or catching a kick in full stride. if you get a free gap, ur player gets a boost. its called autamatic turbo. you knwo what, ur right. you win. keep doing your glitch cuz i dont have any replays on deck for evidence.
 
[quote name='BSETI50']thats teh lamest excuse. u want ur hands to already be moving? cmon dude that the weakest shit ive ever heard. so move them. move ur guy around. thats not what ur doing tho. your moving so that once the ball is snapped you get the boost thru the line. its the same as blocking a fg, or catching a kick in full stride. if you get a free gap, ur player gets a boost. its called autamatic turbo. you knwo what, ur right. you win. keep doing your glitch cuz i dont have any replays on deck for evidence.[/QUOTE]

I don't care if the truth satisfies you or not. It's still the truth.

AFAIC, I am right. It's not a glitch. I don't even need you to supply a replay, you're on the internet: Google it. Find me some evidence of this speed boost, or let it rest.

Keep implying that I (or anyone in this league for that matter) is lying or cheating without evidence - which is exactly what you're doing - and you've got yourself a strike. Baseless accusations against any league member without proof are not going to be tolerated. I don't care how righteous your indignation is.
 
ok bv sorry i dont have evidence. you sound like an asshole right now, people argue about shit all the time and u dont throw strikes around at them. but oh no, give bv a little shit and ur gonna get a strike. sorry your heiness. when u get a chance will you eat my shit?
 
[quote name='BSETI50']ok bv sorry i dont have evidence. you sound like an asshole right now, people argue about shit all the time and u dont throw strikes around at them. but oh no, give bv a little shit and ur gonna get a strike. sorry your heiness. when u get a chance will you eat my shit?[/QUOTE]

I get shit all the time in this thread, I can take it. People question me all the time, I'm fine with it.

You're not giving me shit though, and you're certainly not "arguing" in any sense that's recognizable to me: You're essentially calling me a liar and a cheater in public. If you want to do that, and don't have the evidence to back it up, you rightly deserve to be ridiculed. You think I'm going to sit here and let you accuse me of glitching and not rightly point out that you're a colossal moron? Guess again.

If evidence existed for what you said, find it. By saying "I don't have evidence" but also continuing to imply (or outright declare) that I'm glitching/cheating, you deserve anything you get because that's a punk move.
 
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I brought this up before and I still wholeheartedly disagree with the idea that shifting the lbs back and forth before the snap is okay to do. It does provide an unfair advantage to the moving lb since he has a running start on each play and the o-line ai isn't programmed to react that quickly to a player who already moving. This affects running plays more so than passing plays, especially against zone blocking or outside runs.

It's very similar to the reason moving the de off the line shouldn't be acceptable, because the AI on the o-line can't handle it.

For clarity's sake, I'm not calling anyone a cheater/cheeser/exploiter etc, but I think shifting lbs and manually moving lineman off the line excessively should be banned.
 
[quote name='BSETI50']Bv what you do is manipulative. U run around with your lb until the ball is snapped then shoot thru. Its retarded, u don't see lb's running side to side like retards pre snap in real life. I move my lb around but not so I can cheat and get a boost thru the gap. That shit should be banned too its ranked match bullshit. Its one thing to time a snap and get thru, its another to move your linebacker side to side so u can get an automatic boost once the ball is snapped[/QUOTE]

i agree with you because when you move your LB back and forth the AI on running plays seems to get messed up in terms they dont know who to block causing the QB to get tackled before he hands off and 2 guys running through the A gap without even getting touch is def a problem
 
[quote name='augmog']i agree with you because when you move your LB back and forth the AI on running plays seems to get messed up in terms they dont know who to block causing the QB to get tackled before he hands off and 2 guys running through the A gap without even getting touch is def a problem[/QUOTE]

Except that (the qb getting tackled pre handoff) has never happened once in three years of me doing it.
 
I have never played BV myself, so my opinion is pretty much worthless, but..

Are there specific examples from when you have played him that led to an unfair advantage? People say that he is receiving a boost, so let's assume for a second that it does. It doesn't show in the stats that he using it for blitzing. But no one is coming out and saying anything specific as to what he is using it for then.

You may not have recorded evidence, but if you are going to come on this strong, at least explain what the unfair advantage is (besides just saying he is boosting).
 
ive been watching football my whole life, never once seen a linebacker run around like a retard presnap shuffling from side to side, guard to guard. its nonsense. i know it gives you a boost, maybe i cant prove it right now, but even if it didnt its teh same as dropping a DL back into coverage. it creates confusion on the oline. not that creating confusion shoudl be completly banned, but doing it in a non scheme way is cheap. it creates a wide open gap next to the center on either side. whatever, i know im my mind that its a cheap move and i know im not the only one who thinks that.
 
Then where are the sacks guys? The claim is that he is doing it to create confusion on the opposing teams oline, but why are there no sacks for the LBs? His dline has 8 sacks in 4 games..2 a game hardly shows anything. NE also is allowing over 7 yards a carry. That is not the whole story, but that is two big aspects of a line battle and it doesn't appear he is dominating that - no offense BV.

I understand that it doesn't happen in real football. But if there is no AI glitch being exploited, why should it be banned? If there is something breaking down with the AI, what exactly is it?
 
[quote name='RamesuThe1']Lbs with a running start are far more difficult for the ai to pick than the ones who start a play in a "regular" stance.[/QUOTE]

yea thats part of it, but its one thing to time the snap and get a running start, its another to shuffle side to side, create the confusion, and get a running start. if someone times the snap on you and is coming downhill from the getgo, thats your fault for snappin it perfectly for him ya know? but if someone is running side to side f'ckin with ur line and gets a running start, thats called a glitch in my book.
 
[quote name='Yanksfan']Then where are the sacks guys? The claim is that he is doing it to create confusion on the opposing teams oline, but why are there no sacks for the LBs? His dline has 8 sacks in 4 games..2 a game hardly shows anything. NE also is allowing over 7 yards a carry. That is not the whole story, but that is two big aspects of a line battle and it doesn't appear he is dominating that - no offense BV.
[/QUOTE]

None taken, that's exactly the point I was making.

If it did provide an unfair advantage or a boost, there would be some evidence of it. If such evidence is put forward, I have no issue with banning it. I'll find a different way to stay in rhythm.
 
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not to throw u under the bus bseti but ive played u in one of the league matches and u do the same shit... use the linebacker and play coverage or crash running around lineman after the snap.... one play that comes to mind i did a sweep that u were able to hit the guards gap on a sweep and hit my hb before i could move my move him since he just caught the ball.... but dooms good at running around blockers to and stopping my back before i can make a move with the ball which is way i mostly pass i mean some shit that happenz is rediculous...not that im calling u guys cheaters but ur good at avoiding the blockers with the linebackers wether u shoot the gap on run around them and still hit me...
 
thank you dvo, that isnt what bv does exactly, but it is the same concept. he doesnt shift all his linebackers, he manually shakes one of them. im fine with someone completely blowing up a play with a linebacker. if you can time the snap and get through, all the power to ya. but manually shaking your LB shouldnt be allowed.
 
[quote name='bvharris']That's not really comparable to what I do at all. Besides, as noted I rarely ever get LB sacks.[/QUOTE]

o well i wasnt sure what kinda of movements wasnt ever really any clarity of whether it was one lb or multiple just knew there was evidence being looked for an i saw this on the youtube before thought i would throw in here incase it helped with the discussion
 
[quote name='sprice8688']not that im calling u guys cheaters but ur good at avoiding the blockers with the linebackers wether u shoot the gap on run around them and still hit me...[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's just the thing: I'm good with usering linebackers and chasing down the ball carrier (although you couldn't tell by my ypc allowed, lol). I sometimes blow up plays in the backfield, but just as often that guy whiffs and I allow a big play. As I've mentioned, this strategy almost never results in LB sacks.

It's not really any different than guys who are really good at hawking balls with their safeties (which I suck at). People who are good at user-ing a particular defender and do it all the time are going to make more impactful plays with that player than you'd normally expect. That's the whole point of user controlling defenders.
 
[quote name='bvharris']That's the heart of the issue for me. The offensive line AI makes their blocks based on the front they're presented with. I haven't seen it in action, but I suspect that like you said the guard/tackle would follow him out there, creating a whole in your blocking scheme.



Of course he can't/doesn't. I play the same way in every game, I think if I were nano blitzing we probably would have sussed it out after 3 years. :roll:[/QUOTE]
BV, you reposition your men in the middle causing a fault to the offensive line, not to mention the lateral shifting that you use a catalyst, resulting in a gap on either the right or left side of the center!
 
[quote name='Og whitewidow']BV, you reposition your men in the middle causing a fault to the offensive line, not to mention the lateral shifting that you use a catalyst, resulting in a gap on either the right or left side of the center![/QUOTE]

By "men in the middle" do you mean Wilfork? If I shift Wilfork on a play, I'm controlling him on that play and rushing him manually (which I rarely do, if I user a D-lineman it's usually Cunningham). If I'm controlling a linebacker and moving him pre-snap, than I don't touch my defensive line. I'm not sure if that is what you're saying, but if so I don't ever do those two things on the same play.
 
[quote name='sprice8688']not to throw u under the bus bseti but ive played u in one of the league matches and u do the same shit... use the linebacker and play coverage or crash running around lineman after the snap.... one play that comes to mind i did a sweep that u were able to hit the guards gap on a sweep and hit my hb before i could move my move him since he just caught the ball.... but dooms good at running around blockers to and stopping my back before i can make a move with the ball which is way i mostly pass i mean some shit that happenz is rediculous...not that im calling u guys cheaters but ur good at avoiding the blockers with the linebackers wether u shoot the gap on run around them and still hit me...[/QUOTE]

i move my linebacker around yes, but i dont shake him like a crackhead from side to side. its completely differnt. 90% of the time i play coverage anyway. i remember that play and all i did was time ur snap, i wasnt shaking. im fine with people movin linebackers around n shit, when i play u i just try to show u shit tryin to bait u into throws over the middle.
 
No specifically CB's, MLB, OLB, you move them when you blitz, anyways you know what you do people will now watch for it. After the game i played you, i started doing the same shit you did to me, if you call for it on the right situation it is nearly unstoppable, someone is untouched every time.
 
[quote name='BSETI50']i move my linebacker around yes, but i dont shake him like a crackhead from side to side. its completely differnt. 90% of the time i play coverage anyway. i remember that play and all i did was time ur snap, i wasnt shaking. im fine with people movin linebackers around n shit, when i play u i just try to show u shit tryin to bait u into throws over the middle.[/QUOTE]
Your little shimmy shake nano blitz with Mayo is for the birds.
 
[quote name='Og whitewidow']No specifically CB's, MLB, OLB, you move them when you blitz, anyways you know what you do people will now watch for it. After the game i played you, i started doing the same shit you did to me, if you call for it on the right situation it is nearly unstoppable, someone is untouched every time.[/QUOTE]

I never touch my CBs. To say otherwise is wrong. I user either an MLB or an OLB, and that is the only guy I move pre-snap.

I've been in this league for three years playing the same way. I stand by it 100%. If one of you has some actual evidence (even one little tiny scrap) that it creates an unfair advantage, present it. Otherwise drop it.
 
[quote name='BSETI50']thank you dvo, that isnt what bv does exactly, but it is the same concept. he doesnt shift all his linebackers, he manually shakes one of them. im fine with someone completely blowing up a play with a linebacker. if you can time the snap and get through, all the power to ya. but manually shaking your LB shouldnt be allowed.[/QUOTE]

its not the same concept. Shake blitzing works because there becomes no predetermined person for the online to block.

I guess you could say BV shakes one guy but the results will not be the same. On top of everything else shakes usually only work in a 1-5-5, which isn't in the multid book that BV runs.

If you guys want it banned go into practice mode and do it and prove he gets an advantage. Or find something online to back up this bull shit.
 
[quote name='staticz'] On top of everything else shakes usually only work in a 1-5-5, which isn't in the multid book that BV runs.
[/QUOTE]

It is, actually, though I never run it.

[quote name='Og whitewidow']Okay....we are both talking nonsense, and i didn't pick up on you repositioning your players...which works very well by the way.[/QUOTE]

Nope, just you are. You didn't pick on me repositioning my players, you literally accused me of nano blitzing. You even underlined it. See:

[quote name='Og whitewidow']BV, when we played you hit me with a bunch of NANO blitzes that automatically confuse lines.[/QUOTE]

That's not a light thing to be throwing around without any evidence. You guys think I get an unfair advantage, BSETI literally used the words "manipulate", "cheat", and "glitch" (many times in the latter case). These are serious words to throw around in a league based around fair play. I'm under no obligation to stand for being labelled like that, and I have ever right to ask you to provide evidence that what you're saying about an unfair advantage is true.
 
I'm gonna withhold judgment for now, but I just wanna say that saying BV (or anyone else for that matter) isn't getting any linebacker sacks doesn't mean anything...personally, I never blitz my linebacker for pass rush, but I'm able to get in the backfield a lot on running plays (although I never move my LB pre-snap except to line up opposite a TE in coverage). It all depends on how you use your MLB...if you play him in coverage on pass plays then of course you're not gonna get any sacks. Obviously I dunno if BV does blitz his MLB or not...but if shifting a LB pre-snap IS an exploit, then it could be used effectively to stop the run game without any sacks to show for it.

But since someone mentioned BV is allowing 7 yards per carry or something like that, then I don't see what the complaining is about..

However......I watched a few of those "shake-blitzing" videos and in one of them, the guy doing the commentary said something along those same lines of how moving the players pre-snap gives them momentum which makes them take off at full speed after the snap or something like that (paraphrasing off the top of my head). So that would definitely still apply to even moving one player...but just the commentary of one random guy can't really be considered proof on the matter.
 
I think the video (along with the commentary on the video) does provide "a shred of evidence" that there is an advantage gained. Although it isn't exactly the same, I think it lends credence to the point.

Sacks aren't why I have a problem with it, its all about the running game for me. YPC isn't really an indicator either, because its sort of easy to break long runs regularly in this game. I'd look at TFL specifically for some statistical support.
 
[quote name='bvharris'] You didn't pick on me repositioning my players, you literally accused me of nano blitzing.[/QUOTE]
-what do you think sets up the nano....the repositioning of your players, anyways no need to further dwell.
 
[quote name='Og whitewidow']you did nano blitz me, i picked it up off you, and have been using it...to tell me i am wrong is ludicrous.[/QUOTE]

You're wrong. I've never nano blitzed once in this league. You clearly have no idea what nano blitzing is. Even what BSETI is accusing me of isn't nano blitzing.

Continue to spout this garbage without evidence is walking a fine line.
 
[quote name='MasterAwesome'] Obviously I dunno if BV does blitz his MLB or not... [/QUOTE]

I typically do, though if someone is focusing in on one area of the field that I think I can manually cover with the LB (a TE for example) I'll drop him in coverage. I usually move him pre-snap either way, since as I've said before it has less to do with shooting gaps than it does with staying in rhythm.

[quote name='MasterAwesome']
But since someone mentioned BV is allowing 7 yards per carry or something like that, then I don't see what the complaining is about..
[/QUOTE]

If it was providing an advantage it would show up in the stat sheet. I'm decent at stopping the run with a linebacker.. sometimes. Other times not.

All the concerns about shooting the gap and sacking the quarterback are one thing in theory, but if that's actually what I was doing then it would occasionally actually happen in practice, wouldn't it?

[quote name='RamesuThe1']I think the video (along with the commentary on the video) does provide "a shred of evidence" that there is an advantage gained. Although it isn't exactly the same, I think it lends credence to the point.

Sacks aren't why I have a problem with it, its all about the running game for me. YPC isn't really an indicator either, because its sort of easy to break long runs regularly in this game. I'd look at TFL specifically for some statistical support.[/QUOTE]

I don't agree that shake blitzing has any relevance to what I do, since it's not what I do. The "unfair advantage" bit as I understand it was related to a speed boost. I still don't see any evidence to that. I think maybe we're conflating "speed boost" with the fact that a linebacker who is already moving is going to be faster to react to the play than one who is stationary. That's not a "boost" though.

As to your point about Sacks versus TFL, I'll look into it tonight, we have stats on it. What would be a sufficiently higher rate of TFL by my linebackers compared to the rest of the league that you would think it showed evidence that what you're saying is accurate?
 
[quote name='bvharris']You're wrong. I've never nano blitzed once in this league. You clearly have no idea what nano blitzing is. Even what BSETI is accusing me of isn't nano blitzing.

Continue to spout this garbage without evidence is walking a fine line.[/QUOTE]
What am i going to summon our game footage from my ass, clean it, render it to 1080p, then edit some clips for you.
 
[quote name='Og whitewidow']What am i going to summon our game footage from my ass, clean it, render it to 1080p, then edit some clips for you.[/QUOTE]

So what you're saying is that you think it's perfectly okay to accuse me (or anyone else) of cheating without any evidence?
 
You guys need to drop this convo. It's getting out of hand and going no where. If you have specific examples of what BV is alledgely doing shoot me a PM. YouTube examples would be ideal. I actually play him tonight. And I've played him 4-5 times already this Madden and haven't seen anything since but if you want me to actually look for something real instead of this pointless shouting match then by all means PM me.
 
It's really hard to come up with any proof on this topic...even TFL can't really be trusted. I think between Ray Lewis and Terrell Suggs last season...they must have had 60 or 70 TFL. And I never move my LBs pre-snap unless I'm moving my MLB over in front of a TE to cover him in man or I'll move him a little bit over to start off in the zone I'm supposed to be covering. I blitzed Suggs a LOT since that's what he's really good at, so on the run plays he'd usually blow up the HB in the backfield. BV has some pretty darn good linebackers too so I would expect them to have a good amount of TFL.
 
[quote name='Og whitewidow']I apparently was not the only one, i simply made a comment hours ago, got home and saw that others had something to say as well.[/QUOTE]

If you thought I was doing something wrong, you should have mentioned it during the game or right after. Even if you don't care about calling someone a cheater without evidence (which you clearly don't), I do care about it. If you'd mentioned it during the game or right after, I could have gathered the evidence to defend myself, which would have been plenty since everyone in this league knows what nano blitzing looks like except apparently you.

Instead you bring it up two weeks later like it's no big deal. Your post wasn't a comment, it was an accusation. A pretty serious one in the context of this league, directed at the commissioner of this league - Now I'm not above the rules because of of my position by any means, but my credibility in the league is important, and you're attempting to undermine that. So hell yes, I'm going to call you out on it. It's easy to accuse someone of something with no evidence after the fact when they can't gather the evidence to disprove it either. It's also chicken shit.
 
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