Madden 12 League-OFFICIAL CAG LEAGUE-Week 3 live. Deadline Monday night.

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i must say that the Rams and pats welker deal is slanted and the pats should give up more for that talent
 
Update on the votes...(though itlnstln)

7pm - 2.5*
9pm -5
Either - 12

*MA could make the first couple rounds, but will have to miss the later rounds if it's 9pm.
 
Welker has a pretty valuable and unique skillset, so let's not fall into the old Danny Woodhead trap of treating him like he's a JAG and has no value whatsoever.

Rogers is great, but Welker is also a star WR in this league if used correctly (no, he's not going to be very good if you run him straight down the field every play). I think their on-field value for season 4 is roughly equivalent. I'd also be willing to bet that Rogers' depth chart value is lower than 93. Welker's is still 90.

I'm willing to throw in a pick to even it out a bit: But it's because of a discrepancy in age, not a discrepancy in talent. As with most trades, the most important thing here should be that both sides want to do it. GP contacted me about Welker, I gave him a list of 6 or 7 guys I'd take in a trade, Rogers was the one he picked - that says something about what he values for his team.
 
[quote name='augmog']i must say that the Rams and pats welker deal is slanted and the pats should give up more for that talent[/QUOTE]


this statement is ridiculous. Welker is probably the best slot receiver in the league... How is this possibly "slanted"
 
[quote name='augmog']i must say that the Rams and pats welker deal is slanted and the pats should give up more for that talent[/QUOTE]

a 4th??? your getting a first round talent at RG for a old WR
 
I can why it may seem slanted. Welker is pretty old and that RG is top 5 in the league at only 24 years old.

Yes I know, Welker is no slouch.
 
[quote name='augmog']a 4th??? your getting a first round talent at RG for a old WR[/QUOTE]

Welker is 33, and hasn't really regressed at all as I mentioned up thread. His skillset is also more resistant to regression that a WR whose value is tied to his speed - does anyone question that logic?

If you want to be part of the conversation, please research the players involved (like MA did) instead of shooting from the hip.

I'm all for a reasoned discussion on this trade and for making it work, but any argument which is basically "Welker sucks" doesn't belong in the conversation.
 
two things... 1. i think the Welker-Rogers deal is fair with a second (since the pick isnt very high)

2. VERNON DAVIS is available to the highest bidder... looking for a talented, 90+ speed CB and/or draft picks
 
[quote name='bvharris']Scope the stats on Patrick Peterson now.

Wilson's 53 awareness and 67 play recognition are a bit troubling for a corner.
[/QUOTE]

Pfft okay okay I should have said best coverage stats in the history of Madden...

I assume you're talking about Jimmy Smith when you're referencing this "Wilson" character...but I've seen him pick off 2 screen passes for TDs, so I'm not too worried about his awareness/play recognition!! He was playing amazing this last year for me.

Just one more thing about Welker though (or I guess route running in general)...doesn't it kind of negate route running's effectiveness if the opponent plays zone coverage? With how much more effective zone is this year, I've seen the majority of my opponents using it over man coverage.
 
[quote name='sprice8688']i wouldnt trade my rg for welker and hes a 83 ovr... i dont like that tradr[/QUOTE]

Doesn't matter what you would do. No offense, but this isn't helpful. Just because you don't like Welker as a player doesn't really factor into a discussion about his trade value.

[quote name='MasterAwesome']
Just one more thing about Welker though (or I guess route running in general)...doesn't it kind of negate route running's effectiveness if the opponent plays zone coverage? With how much more effective zone is this year, I've seen the majority of my opponents using it over man coverage.[/QUOTE]

Again it depends on the routes. There are plenty of routes which are designed to find a hole in zone coverage. I'm not giving up everything though. ;)
 
[quote name='bvharris']Welker is 33, and hasn't really regressed at all as I mentioned up thread. His skillset is also more resistant to regression that a WR whose value is tied to his speed - does anyone question that logic?

If you want to be part of the conversation, please research the players involved (like MA did) instead of shooting from the hip.

I'm all for a reasoned discussion on this trade and for making it work, but any argument which is basically "Welker sucks" doesn't belong in the conversation.[/QUOTE]

Welker doesn't suck but your getting the 2nd best RG in the league and welker is on his way down i agree if you added a 2nd into the mix
 
[quote name='augmog']Welker doesn't suck but your getting the 2nd best RG in the league and welker is on his way down i agree if you added a 2nd into the mix[/QUOTE]

Saying this doesn't make it true. As has been established, it's not.

Please don't make things up. I don't ask that people rubber stamp trades, but please don't invent facts to fit your argument. Welker has been a 90 OVR for 4 straight seasons now - saying that he's significantly regressing or about to is just false.
 
Trade alert

seahawks send
RAY RICE overall 94 age 29 pot A

jags send
MLB Taylor Terry overall 88 age 24 pot A ( has always been 1 point above player mangement should be an 89)
RB Jordan Todman overall 80 age 26 pot b ( depth chart is 4 points below this so should be only a 76)

we have both been over this trade with eachother and both realize what they will actually will be and hoping this can go by what we both beleive is deptch chart rating. not sure how we do this or not but i always keep a book of how different all my players depth chart rating is from player mangement for trade purposes at this time. for core player trade reasons
 
Damnnnn, if I knew Rice was on the block I would've put out an offer. Here I am sending offers for Best. The Poor Man's Ray Rice!

I'm working on my trade block btw.
 
[quote name='Doomtime']Your impressions on the Vita so far?[/QUOTE]

I'll let you know tomorrow when I get it in lol.

I would have been interested in Rice too...
 
Let's re-center this discussion in reality a bit:

Welker Season 3:
welker_3.jpg

Welker Season 4:
welker_4.jpg

His catch went down 1 point, other than that his stats were completely unchanged.

So to say "Welker is regressing" or "Welker is on the way down" is just not accurate. Might he drop 10 points in season 5? I suppose anything's possible. But that he's remained essentially the same player over 4 seasons is not really up for discussion here: He has.

So discussions of Rogers' potential can certainly be in the deal, and I agree he's already a great RG. But Welker is also the best slot WR in the game, and that does not look to be changing.
 
[quote name='Deuce20602']two things... 1. i think the Welker-Rogers deal is fair with a second (since the pick isnt very high)

2. VERNON DAVIS is available to the highest bidder... looking for a talented, 90+ speed CB and/or draft picks[/QUOTE]
pm me
 
[quote name='ubernes']Damnnnn, if I knew Rice was on the block I would've put out an offer. Here I am sending offers for Best. The Poor Man's Ray Rice!

I'm working on my trade block btw.[/QUOTE]


i was thinking about best at one point but this came to me in pms i jumped all over it
 
as for the rams pats trade not sure what i think of it.
but if i knew that guy was up for grabs i would have made an offer of
titans 1st rounder & WR eric decker overall 84 age 27 pot B 99 catch 91 CIT

damn it bv beat me to it
 
[quote name='bvharris']Saying this doesn't make it true. As has been established, it's not.

Please don't make things up. I don't ask that people rubber stamp trades, but please don't invent facts to fit your argument. Welker has been a 90 OVR for 4 straight seasons now - saying that he's significantly regressing or about to is just false.[/QUOTE]

All Im saying is that Welker isnt goin to get better before he gets worse

That RG is only going to get better

A 2nd would make it fair
 
Sorry BV...I'm inclined to agree with the 2nd round pick as well. I wasn't thinking of this until now, but having done this draft TWICE fairly recently...I recall this probably being the worst draft to date in terms of depth. There was VERY little to nothing in terms of talent in the 4th round (and your 4th round pick is one of the last few), so your 4th round pick would be a throw-away. Based on my memory...I think a player picked at the end of the 3rd round would maybe barely make the cut on a team's roster, so that doesn't have much of an impact either...I'm inclined to say a 2nd is most fair but I certainly wouldn't argue if people agreed on a 3rd.

Welker is definitely the best slot receiver in the game...but I don't think that necessarily means he's one of the best receivers period. That RG IS one of the top 2 best RGs in the game...he doesn't have any weaknesses as far as I can tell (not very high awareness but who knows if that even means anything). Welker does have his weaknesses which is why people keep reiterating that he's merely the best SLOT receiver. I don't consider him elite because of this...I think receivers like Kenny Britt, Mike Williams, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald elite (they're roughly 90-99 in every receiving stat), but I don't really consider Welker elite. I kinda rushed through this post and didn't get everything out that I wanted to since I have to be at work in 5 minutes lol, but I'll finish it later...
 
[quote name='DVO21']as for the rams pats trade not sure what i think of it.
but if i knew that guy was up for grabs i would have made an offer of
titans 1st rounder & WR eric decker overall 84 age 27 pot B 99 catch 91 CIT

damn it bv beat me to it[/QUOTE].

Are you reffering to rogers up for grabs? Hey this is sim ball so the nfl is all business right? Lol I'd pefer to take decker and the first rounder instead of welker. What the titans draft pick?
 
[quote name='Deuce20602']whoa...TIME OUT... who won the super bowl?[/QUOTE]

Sprice destroyed me in your honor. It was ugly, like 6 seasons of pent up aggression ugly. If I was a fan watching that game, I would have flipped it after the halftime show.
 
[quote name='ubernes']Damnnnn, if I knew Rice was on the block I would've put out an offer. Here I am sending offers for Best. The Poor Man's Ray Rice!

I'm working on my trade block btw.[/QUOTE]

Kind of an under the table deal, no one knew he was up for grabs.
 
[quote name='Doomtime']Sprice destroyed me in your honor. It was ugly, like 6 seasons of pent up aggression ugly. If I was a fan watching that game, I would have flipped it after the halftime show.[/QUOTE]

lol, wow. well, now i know what i gotta prep for to claw my way back to being NFC elite
 
My bottom line feeling is this: I haven't heard an argument that Rogers' on-field value in season 4 is higher than Welker's - I don't think anyone is making that argument here. Both are elite players, I assume we can all agree on that.

The primary argument seems to be that Welker:

1) Will not progress - I obviously concede this point.

2) May well regress - This is obviously possible, though I believe I've established a) that he's not on a trend of regression, and b) that his skillset is more resistant to regression than a guy whose game is based on speed. Here's a 36 year old Welker in another league: Still a 91.*

Meanwhile, the consensus is that Rogers is:

1) A top 2 or 3 RG right now - I agree, obviously.

2) Likely to improve further - This I'm not as sure about. He's about to enter his 3rd season, and I don't really see how much more room he has to grow. His blocking skills are already elite, I'm not sure where further progression comes from. Here's him in another league in his 4th season: Also a 91 OVR.*

*I don't submit these as absolute proof that our league will follow that, since I know progression isn't static. But we have used these "alternate universe" versions of players in the past to discuss trades.
 
JETS TRADE BLOCK

Available:
Shonn Greene, HB, A pot (86 OVR, 87 speed, 99 truck, 94 stiff arm, 95 acceleration)
OR
Bilal Powell, HB, B pot (83 OVR, 86 speed, 97 truck, 94 acceleration, 73 catching)

Kalen Federick, RT, B pot (73 OVR, 98 rblock strength, 79 rblock footwork, 82 pblock strength, 82 pblock footwork)

Cameron Patterson, TE, A pot (74 OVR, 82 speed, 82 route running, 74 catch in traffic, 69 catch)

Looking For:
Safety (FS or SS, good zone, decent speed, hard hitter a plus)
Speed RB (92+ speed, high carry, catch + trucking/stiff arm a plus)
Top 10 draft pick
Possession WR (82+ speed, high catch, high catch in traffic)

Potentially on the block:
K.J. Wright (MLB, 72 OVR, B pot) or Colin McCarthy, MLB (78 OVR, A pot)
Antonio Cromartie (CB, 88 OVR)
20th pick in draft

I have a good amount of MLBs, so I would not be opposed to dealing one of them. I like McCarthy's speed, but Wright is a Bart Scott type and just ruins anyone who comes up the middle. I would need to get a pretty studly safety in return, but I would at least hear offers on these guys.
 
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[quote name='bvharris']Are we seriously tampering now? That's a new one, even for this league.[/QUOTE]

Who's tampering?
 
[quote name='bvharris']Are we seriously tampering now? That's a new one, even for this league.[/QUOTE]


im not tampering i pmed him that i wouldnt mess with that trade unless urs got denied first and he understands that
 
[quote name='KasterDB']Who's tampering?[/QUOTE]

Posting an offer in the thread for a guy who's already in a submitted trade is pretty bad form. We've never outlawed it or anything, but I figure it's common sense not to do that.

I know dvo didn't mean any harm by it though. Not a huge deal.
 
I ask him to post it up to see what ya'll would say. I do like his offer though and just because I told you that i'd go through the deal I'm gonna go through with it. After thinking about trading Alexander for Holloway and some dirt dt I regretted it but I already told staticz I was gonna go through with it so I did. But I don't see why you have to call dvo out lol.
 
[quote name='GpNinja']I ask him to post it up to see what ya'll would say. I do like his offer though and just because I told you that i'd go through the deal I'm gonna go through with it. After thinking about trading Alexander for Holloway and some dirt dt I regretted it but I already told staticz I was gonna go through with it so I did. But I don't see why you have to call dvo out lol.[/QUOTE]

wha?
 
well i hoping the

jags-dolphins trade get some talk
&
jags-seahawks trade as well

also titans 1st rounder (19th overall pick) jags 4th and 5th pick all up for a 87+ LT or LG pm me with offers
 
[quote name='GpNinja']I ask him to post it up to see what ya'll would say. [/QUOTE]

[quote name='GpNinja']
But I don't see why you have to call dvo out lol.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like you're the one I should've called out then, lol.

I don't think it's appropriate for people to be posting offers in the thread on guys who are in submitted deals. That's my opinion as commish, not just guy in the trade.

I'm not in the business of making trades people are going to regret. We both obviously thought this was a fair deal, and I still do. I think you probably still do too, though I certainly wouldn't blame you for wanting to get more if you can. I'm more than willing to work on including other components to make it work. That said, if you want to back out of the deal and trade with DVO instead, go right ahead.
 
Seahawks Trade Block

Pick #10 (this is going to take a lot)
Marcus Trufant - CB 79 B POT
Brandon Browner - CB 79 B Pot

Looking for:
Interior OLine
DE's
SS
 
[quote name='DVO21']well im looking for more left side o-line than right so thats all u bv[/QUOTE]

:wall:

[quote name='GpNinja']I said I agreed to trade with you so I am unless it dosen't go through than I would take dvo's offer.[/QUOTE]

I'll include a 2nd if you'll send back either:
1) a 4th
2) DT Justin Bannan (72 OVR, 35)

Either works for me.
 
[quote name='staticz']Seahawks Trade Block

Pick #10 (this is going to take a lot)
Marcus Trufant - CB 79 B POT
Brandon Browner - CB 79 B Pot

Looking for:
Interior OLine
DE's
SS[/QUOTE]

Want Roger's? haha jk
 
DVO and fero trade the #1 overall pick for Brandon Marshall: 2 comments

bv makes a trade where one guy's older and there's a 3 point difference in OVR: 5 pages. :D
 
i guess know wants to see u win and no one is worried about me lol

im more worried about getting charged 2 core player in the seahawks trade since todman is for sure below 80 in depth chart rating. becuz if i get charged with that i cant make the last trade i want to post without being over caps :( and it involves a pick so i cant trade it after the draft so i kinda need word on that becuz i know todman player management is 80 but i know and staticz know he is for sure 76. 77 tops
 
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