Madden 13 Official CAG League - On Hiatus. See you in August for Madden 25!

[quote name='Tanabeo']On the Qb subbing it doesn't say wildcat when i played uber it said 2 wr 2 rb or something like that so i think they should have to send you a message[/QUOTE]

You sure? I just played the Week 1 Fantasy HUT game against Dallas, and they ran a Wildcat several times and each time it said "Wildcat" It would be odd for some teams' playbooks to just "disguise" it better.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']You sure? I just played the Week 1 Fantasy HUT game against Dallas, and they ran a Wildcat several times and each time it said "Wildcat" It would be odd for some teams' playbooks to just "disguise" it better.[/QUOTE]

maybe he subbed in tebow on an ace playbook I will have to look at it tonight I will use two controllers and see what it says
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']You sure? I just played the Week 1 Fantasy HUT game against Dallas, and they ran a Wildcat several times and each time it said "Wildcat" It would be odd for some teams' playbooks to just "disguise" it better.[/QUOTE]

Its because the jets playbook has Jet Heavy which is shotgun formation that puts tebow in by default. To the defense it looks like 3 wr 1 te 1 hb

A few other books have similar formations.
 
Seattle Seahawks - CAG: itlnstln - XBL: hotitlnstln - Eastern - weekdays after 7pm and weekends around NCAA(UofM) and NFL(Lions)
 
Late to the party....

NY Jets | CAG: ubernes | XBL: broadway row | EST | Weekdays after 7pm, Weekends usually early part of day Saturday and whenever the Jets aren't playing Sunday
 
[quote name='augmog']I understand where your coming from but to send a message is a little extreme there has to be another alternative[/QUOTE]

If you've got a suggestion for an alternative, we'd certainly be open to it.

[quote name='staticz']Its because the jets playbook has Jet Heavy which is shotgun formation that puts tebow in by default. To the defense it looks like 3 wr 1 te 1 hb

A few other books have similar formations.[/QUOTE]

That sounds right. I think those situations where it's by default would probably be an exception, but I'm open to opinions on it. Everybody probably knows Tim Tebow's number anyway. :D
 
[quote name='bvharris']That sounds right. I think those situations where it's by default would probably be an exception, but I'm open to opinions on it. Everybody probably knows Tim Tebow's number anyway. :D[/QUOTE]

It just would have made so much more sense for the announcers to call people out on those little "tricks". Considering that Madden is kind of the bastard son of being in a game and watching a game, there should be some accommodations made. Since we can't actively see Sanchez running off the field and Tebow coming on the field, the announcers should at least say "Oh, it looks like Tim Tebow is coming into the game" if you pick a play that brings in Tebow. Same for onside kicks. When you choose one, if Jim Nantz said "Phil, it looks like they're lining up for an onside kick", we wouldn't have to deal with any of this messaging nonsense. But this is like NASA level thinking for EA, lol.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']It just would have made so much more sense for the announcers to call people out on those little "tricks". Considering that Madden is kind of the bastard son of being in a game and watching a game, there should be some accommodations made. Since we can't actively see Sanchez running off the field and Tebow coming on the field, the announcers should at least say "Oh, it looks like Tim Tebow is coming into the game" if you pick a play that brings in Tebow. Same for onside kicks. When you choose one, if Jim Nantz said "Phil, it looks like they're lining up for an onside kick", we wouldn't have to deal with any of this messaging nonsense. But this is like NASA level thinking for EA, lol.[/QUOTE]

Yeah. I sent a letter to EA asking for all of this, but I don't think it got there...

11hvy4j.gif
 
Packers - Matt Young l Matt Young l X Matt Young X l Central for the next couple weeks; Pacific after l Daytime while in CST; highly flexible when back on PST
 
[quote name='bvharris']If you've got a suggestion for an alternative, we'd certainly be open to it.



That sounds right. I think those situations where it's by default would probably be an exception, but I'm open to opinions on it. Everybody probably knows Tim Tebow's number anyway. :D[/QUOTE]

I dont have one but I just cant imagine myself pausing the game to send a message that I am running the wildcat lol I just feel like in this madden you cant cover/counter everything I think you have to keep an eye out for things like that.....that might be the reason for qbs taking forever to approach the line when snapping up their helmets.
 
[quote name='augmog']I dont have one but I just cant imagine myself pausing the game to send a message that I am running the wildcat lol [/QUOTE]

If you'll take a look at the rules, you'll see that wildcat plays are excepted from the rule. As they were last year. It's only applicable for swapping a QB into a standard formation mid-drive.
 
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With the league quickly approaching it's start date I wish I had more time in with the game. I was recently promoted at work and it has really been tough the past few weeks! Not to mention a condition of the promotion is to obtain a CCNA in 6 months :p gotta hit the books pretty quick!

As for the trade board - I would be more than happy to pitch in. Some of the bitchfest's (myself being a member of those sometimes) last year got a bit ridiculous.
 
[quote name='augmog']I understand where your coming from but to send a message is a little extreme there has to be another alternative[/QUOTE]

The rule is because of me so I know sending a message sucks I had to do it last year

[quote name='bvharris']If you've got a suggestion for an alternative, we'd certainly be open to it.



That sounds right. I think those situations where it's by default would probably be an exception, but I'm open to opinions on it. Everybody probably knows Tim Tebow's number anyway. :D[/QUOTE]

Not like someone could tell I was going from a 6'6" white guy to josh Johnson who was half the size of mallett. So if I put my back up QB in all my shotgun formations I would not have to send a message to anyone unless I put Palmer back in there so Tebow can have all of jet heavy and Pryor can have all of my shotgun formations
 
[quote name='Tanabeo']So if I put my back up QB in all my shotgun formations I would not have to send a message to anyone unless I put Palmer back in there so Tebow can have all of jet heavy and Pryor can have all of my shotgun formations[/QUOTE]

The game doesn't tell you whether or not the opponent is in shotgun, only how many backs and receivers are on the field. So they'd still have no way of knowing which QB was in until they saw it on the field, which is still after they've called their play.

The Tebow thing is tricky, because they have plays where he is in there by default and as far as I know there aren't any other teams which have that. I'll talk to ubernes about it.
 
I feel like we should let the defense know what play we are running and who our go to receiver is just so nobody is caught by surprise ever lol
 
[quote name='JoelyPoley']I feel like we should let the defense know what play we are running and who our go to receiver is just so nobody is caught by surprise ever lol[/QUOTE]

This isn't really constructive or helpful. The rule isn't there just to have another rule about something. It was put in because people (okay, since he already said so himself, it was pretty much just Tanabeo) were exploiting the ability to hot swap QBs in order to gain an advantage. Since that's not possible in the real NFL (where you will know in advance if a QB change has been made), we put in the rule. It's not a slippery slope like you're implying, it's a very specifically tailored rule which was put in to combat something very specific.
 
Changing gears, if the roster is indeed out tomorrow, than I'll set up the league whenever it's available. If it's out Saturday, I'll be gone for the day so either ubernes or siradam will set it up.

Either way, expect a PM from one of us with the league details. We won't start up the preseason until everyone has joined up.
 
i still feel regardless of hot swapping if u have vick and hes ur starter then whats the difference in running 5 wide run on every play... or mog last yr once he got tebow... regardless u have to find a way to stop the offense if hes constantly running then u need to put in a qb spy... its not that difficult to change ur play calling thats the fun of of football and madden period to out coach the other team.... when people run zone screen plays work.... i will throw more screens to stop people from running all zone defenses... when people run man i will throw slants and try to pick there cbs apart... its part of the game... an nfl coach will run plays that are working more then plays thay are not... ive never ran a 5 wide strait qb sneak but i dont see why he cant run it i find it easy to stop...
 
Anyone using the Jets playbook should just sub Sanchez (QB #1) into the Tebow package right at the start of the game (takes 1 second) and then when he wants to use Tebow (QB #2) in that formation, he has to play by the same rules as everyone else, alert his opponent.

Tebow (Qb #2) isn't locked into that package as far as I know.

As long as we have this qb swap rule, it seems dumb that one formation in one play book doesn't have to abide by the same standards as everyone else.
 
Amusing that there are still people in here who don't understand the concept of realism. I don't know how many of you have ever been on a football field in your life, so this may come as a shock to you, but you can actually see which players are leaving the field and which ones are coming onto the field. It's incredible. And sometimes, the coach even uses that for the basis of his playcalling. It's just crazy!

As tanabeo so astutely pointed out, nobody would ever mistake Josh Johnson for a 6'6" white guy. So, surely, no coach would ever call his defensive play without accounting for Johnson being in the game. Mind blowing stuff. I get people being annoyed with sending a message, but don't blame BV and the commissioners. Blame EA's shitty programming. And if it's that much of a bother, don't run trick plays where your opponent doesn't have a fair chance of making a good defensive play call based on the personnel on the field.

[quote name='LVPatriots']Anyone using the Jets playbook should just sub Sanchez into the Tebow package right at the start of the game (takes 1 second) and then when he wants to use Tebow in that formation, he has to play by the same rules as everyone else, alert his opponent.[/QUOTE]

That's a great idea. Keeps everybody on the same page and keeps things fair. People have to realize that the commissioner has to work within the confines of the game. Not everything is going to be peaches and flowers. Sometimes you're just making the best of a bad situation/design. I'll probably adopt this policy for my league too.
 
[quote name='LVPatriots']Anyone using the Jets playbook should just sub Sanchez (QB #1) into the Tebow package right at the start of the game (takes 1 second) and then when he wants to use Tebow (QB #2) in that formation, he has to play by the same rules as everyone else, alert his opponent.

Tebow (Qb #2) isn't locked into that package as far as I know.

As long as we have this qb swap rule, it seems dumb that one formation in one play book doesn't have to abide by the same standards as everyone else.[/QUOTE]

Seems sensible to me. ubernes, does that work for you?
 
[quote name='bvharris']Everybody probably knows Tim Tebow's number anyway. :D[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Tanabeo']Not like someone could tell I was going from a 6'6" white guy to josh Johnson who was half the size of mallett.[/QUOTE]

Some people don't get I was going along with bv's joke
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']Amusing that there are still people in here who don't understand the concept of realism. I don't know how many of you have ever been on a football field in your life, so this may come as a shock to you, but you can actually see which players are leaving the field and which ones are coming onto the field. It's incredible. And sometimes, the coach even uses that for the basis of his playcalling. It's just crazy!

As tanabeo so astutely pointed out, nobody would ever mistake Josh Johnson for a 6'6" white guy. So, surely, no coach would ever call his defensive play without accounting for Johnson being in the game. Mind blowing stuff. I get people being annoyed with sending a message, but don't blame BV and the commissioners. Blame EA's shitty programming. And if it's that much of a bother, don't run trick plays where your opponent doesn't have a fair chance of making a good defensive play call based on the personnel on the field.



That's a great idea. Keeps everybody on the same page and keeps things fair. People have to realize that the commissioner has to work within the confines of the game. Not everything is going to be peaches and flowers. Sometimes you're just making the best of a bad situation/design. I'll probably adopt this policy for my league too.[/QUOTE]

u aint even in this league u started ur own why are u coming in here talking like an asshole....
 
[quote name='bvharris']This isn't really constructive or helpful. The rule isn't there just to have another rule about something. It was put in because people (okay, since he already said so himself, it was pretty much just Tanabeo) were exploiting the ability to hot swap QBs in order to gain an advantage. Since that's not possible in the real NFL (where you will know in advance if a QB change has been made), we put in the rule. It's not a slippery slope like you're implying, it's a very specifically tailored rule which was put in to combat something very specific.[/QUOTE]


That is because i was poking fun at your rule and you couldn't see the humor in it. I was comically pointing out that it seems like some of these rules are in place because some people aren't very good at adapting to their opponent. When it comes to realism an argument can be made that defenses call audibles if they see something they don't like. It isn't always sniffed out before the players are ready to go. I understand that rules are in place for a reason and many of them are needed to keep people from cheesing, but the requirements for this seem to be a bit much in my opinion. If someone calls out a hot swap every time they put tebow in they are basically saying "hey, you know he cant throw so go ahead and blitz me because im obviously running". So now you have given an advantage to one team which is just as unfair as the advantage the offense receives when he sneaks in a speedy qb for a run without saying anything. That isn't fair, especially when more and more playbooks come with designed qb runs. It's starting to seem like an angry mob on a witch hunt.

I understand people don't want to get beat by sneaky tactics which is a fair request. So instead of completely swinging the advantage in the opposite direction why don't we just require the hot swap offender to notify their opponent at the beginning of the game so the opponent can expect a few hot swaps throughout. That way you can keep an eye on the qb and if his number changes you can audible to a coverage with a qb spy. Or individually set your defensive ends to qb spy before the snap.

If the mob is dead set on forcing a notification before every hot swap play then we can require the hot swap offender to put a headset (the xbox comes with one) on and call it out before the play. This way the opponent can hear it over their headset if they have one on, or at the very least can hear it over the tv speakers. This way the player who only gets 5 pauses a game doesn't have to take a delay of game penalty to type out a message about hot swapping if he runs out of pauses.

I understand some people won't agree with my opinion or these suggestions, which is fine, but I am entitled still entitled to them. And I hope nobody thinks this is attack on their opinion because I am simply trying to show another point of view that deserves to be considered.
 
[quote name='sprice8688']u aint even in this league u started ur own why are u coming in here talking like an asshole....[/QUOTE]

Let's not do this, please. I have no problem with n8 (or anyone else in the other league) posting in this thread, he's more than entitled. Let's not act like his league and this league are enemies or something, I certainly don't see it that way.

I don't think we need to make a bigger debate out of this rule than we need to. It was a necessary rule last year, and it's still a necessary rule. It's definitely not the perfect solution, but as n8 pointed out it's making the best we can of an exploitable flaw in the game. In any case, it's not something we're going to remove.

I think we're all just anxious for the league to begin. :D
 
[quote name='JoelyPoley']That is because i was poking fun at your rule and you couldn't see the humor in it. I was comically pointing out that it seems like some of these rules are in place because some people aren't very good at adapting to their opponent.[/QUOTE]

I saw what you were going for, it was your attempt at humor which I didn't find constructive. You're new to this league, so you really don't have any context on why the rule is there in the first place. It was definitely being exploited, it's not just a "hey, people might do this" thing. I'm not trying to say new people shouldn't express themselves, because I'm thrilled you want to be involved, just know that we do know what we're doing and we don't just arbitrarily make up rules.

[quote name='JoelyPoley']
If someone calls out a hot swap every time they put tebow in they are basically saying "hey, you know he cant throw so go ahead and blitz me because im obviously running". So now you have given an advantage to one team which is just as unfair as the advantage the offense receives when he sneaks in a speedy qb for a run without saying anything. That isn't fair, especially when more and more playbooks come with designed qb runs. It's starting to seem like an angry mob on a witch hunt. [/QUOTE]

Which is exactly how many real NFL defenses play Tebow. In no way shape or form does knowing the identity of the personnel on the field constitute an advantage for the defense. All it does is more accurately swing things back towards the conditions which would be present in an actual NFL game.

[quote name='JoelyPoley']
If the mob is dead set on forcing a notification before every hot swap play [/QUOTE]

We don't go by mob rule in this league. We welcome feedback, and we do incorporate it into the decisions, but the rules are ultimately the discretion of the commissioners.

Edit: As for your suggestion about the headset, that's fine with me if they want to notify people that way. But we don't ever require headsets, so you'd have to make sure your opponent was okay with that method before the game.

[quote name='JoelyPoley']
I understand some people won't agree with my opinion or these suggestions, which is fine, but I am entitled still entitled to them. [/QUOTE]

You're certainly more than entitled to present your opinion whenever you want.
 
[quote name='bvharris']Which is exactly how many real NFL defenses play Tebow. In no way shape or form does knowing the identity of the personnel on the field constitute an advantage for the defense.[/QUOTE]

I think it does. If I have Peyton Manning in the game on 3rd and 6 you know I am not running with the QB, but I may run with RB. So that is a pass or run option. If it is 3rd and 6 and I sub Peyton Manning out and put in a Pat Devlin you now know I'm probably looking to roll out and run because that is all he can really do. So knowing that Pat Devlin is on the field gives the defense an advantage in that situation because you know they really don't have the ability to pass with that personnel. With Pat Devlin is run with qb or run with rb.

I saw what you were going for, it was your attempt at humor which I didn't find constructive. You're new to this league, so you really don't have any context on why the rule is there in the first place. It was definitely being exploited, it's not just a "hey, people might do this" thing. I'm not trying to say new people shouldn't express themselves, because I'm thrilled you want to be involved, just know that we do know what we're doing and we don't just arbitrarily make up rules.
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When you have been the victim of a crime it is sometimes hard to see the other side of the argument. I never said rules were arbitrarily made up, but I was trying to give a fresh view on something that was only being discussed by people who were against qb hot swaps. If their is no counter view people tend to ignore the other side of the story and unfair rules are made. Rules are rules and I've got no issue with following them. I just like to know that the rules are well thought out and have fairness for everyone affected. No hard feelings on my side.
 
[quote name='JoelyPoley']I think it does. If I have Peyton Manning in the game on 3rd and 6 you know I am not running with the QB, but I may run with RB. So that is a pass or run option. If it is 3rd and 6 and I sub Peyton Manning out and put in a Pat Devlin you now know I'm probably looking to roll out and run because that is all he can really do. So knowing that Pat Devlin is on the field gives the defense an advantage in that situation because you know they really don't have the ability to pass with that personnel. With Pat Devlin is run with qb or run with rb.[/QUOTE]

I'm not disagreeing that different QBs lead to different defensive strategies, that's actually the reason we have the rule in the first place.

Real NFL teams know what QB is going to be on the field when they call their defensive play. It's not like the Jets sneak Tim Tebow onto the field under Nick Mangold's jersey, you know?

All this rule does is ensure that the defense has the information about what QB is in the game when they call their play, which any NFL team would. You can't sub in a QB by surprise in the NFL, why should you be able to in Madden?

From that perspective, not requiring notification if you change the QB to start a drive is actually more lenient that would be realistic, so we're trying to meet somewhere in the middle between realism and practicality.

[quote name='JoelyPoley']
I just like to know that the rules are well thought out and have fairness for everyone affected. No hard feelings on my side.[/QUOTE]

Nor mine. I promise you that the commissioners spend more time thinking out the rules than could reasonably considered healthy, and that fairness is always our #1 priority.
 
Nor mine. I promise you that the commissioners spend more time thinking out the rules than could reasonably considered healthy, and that fairness is always our #1 priority.
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Then it looks like I am ready to bring the Lombardi Trophy to San Diego. Rivers deserves a championship.
 
[quote name='JoelyPoley']Then it looks like I am ready to bring the Lombardi Trophy to San Diego.[/QUOTE]

You've got to get out of the division first. :D
 
[quote name='JoelyPoley']Then it looks like I am ready to bring the Lombardi Trophy to San Diego. Rivers deserves a championship.[/QUOTE]

Was with you until you said this.

:twoguns:
 
[quote name='bvharris']Let's not do this, please. I have no problem with n8 (or anyone else in the other league) posting in this thread, he's more than entitled. Let's not act like his league and this league are enemies or something, I certainly don't see it that way.

I don't think we need to make a bigger debate out of this rule than we need to. It was a necessary rule last year, and it's still a necessary rule. It's definitely not the perfect solution, but as n8 pointed out it's making the best we can of an exploitable flaw in the game. In any case, it's not something we're going to remove.

I think we're all just anxious for the league to begin. :D[/QUOTE]

its not a problan with his opinion at all just the way he talks like were all stupid to the sense of football...
 
[quote name='staticz']Yep. And that road comes through Kansas City :D[/QUOTE]

I can't talk smack to the new guy yet since for all I know he's the greatest Madden player of all time. You on the other hand... ;)
 
[quote name='sprice8688']u aint even in this league u started ur own why are u coming in here talking like an asshole....[/QUOTE]

Sorry if the post came on strong. It just seems like a such a simple concept to me. It's not realistic to "catch your opponent off guard" by switching to a scrambling QB in the middle of a drive, without the defense having a chance to call a proper play to defend it. I know it's come up numerous times, and people make fun of it or whine about having to send a message. Without a better way of handling it, it just seems pointless to complain about. The ruling BV, Ubernes, and Fero have come up with is the best of a bad situation.

As for why I post in here, I'm not trying to be all up in your guys' business, but when a topic comes up that is relevant to me and Madden in general, I comment on it. BV (and others) do the same thing in my league's thread. The way I see it, we're just giving feedback to make the league experience as fair and enjoyable as it can be for everyone. We borrow ideas from each other, and see what works and what doesn't work.

Again, sorry for the post coming on strong. But people posting things like "Why don't I just message people what play I'm about to run and who my key players are" makes a joke out of it like they don't understand the need for the rule, and is disrespectful to the people running the league. I just wanted to help reiterate why it was necessary to begin with. But out of respect for the commissioners here, I won't say anything else about it.
 
[quote name='bvharris']I can't talk smack to the new guy yet since for all I know he's the greatest Madden player of all time. You on the other hand... ;)[/QUOTE]

Lol. We will see.
 
[quote name='staticz']Lol. We will see.[/QUOTE]

If you mean "see Dwayne Bowe abandon KC to sign with Denver after his contract is up" then yes, we will see. :D

I've mentioned it before, but the thing I'm looking forward to the most this year is all of us signing each others' free agents. Going to make for some interesting thread banter.
 
[quote name='LVPatriots']Just get Mike Vick and your QB can run and throw! It's so simple.[/QUOTE]

Maybe he can throw to the other team, but definitely not his own.
 
[quote name='bvharris']If you mean "see Dwayne Bowe abandon KC to sign with Denver after his contract is up" then yes, we will see. :D

I've mentioned it before, but the thing I'm looking forward to the most this year is all of us signing each others' free agents. Going to make for some interesting thread banter.[/QUOTE]

Ha. Dbowe will get a monster contract, he isn't going anywhere!
 
[quote name='JoelyPoley']Maybe he can throw to the other team, but definitely not his own.[/QUOTE]

Yea, he has only played one game in his life! I forgot that Browns game was his first start dude!
 
BV what is the status of onsides kicks? I played a rank game earlier and it still doesn't tell you if it is an onside kick. It only says kickoff.
 
[quote name='Og whitewidow']BV what is the status of onsides kicks? I played a rank game earlier and it still doesn't tell you if it is an onside kick. It only says kickoff.[/QUOTE]

From the rules:

2c. Onside Kicks *NEW RULE*
As many of us have discovered by now, the game UI no longer alerts someone when the opponent is in onside kick formation. Therefore, if you are attempting an onside kick and your opponent does not come out in onside kick formation you must give them the opportunity to either call a timeout or audible into onside coverage. You should wait at least 5 seconds, but 10 would be even better. Quickly kicking to take advantage of your opponent not being ready will not be tolerated.
 
[quote name='Tanabeo']Who wants to send a running back to Oakland[/QUOTE]

If you find someone you like better than McFadden, I'll take him off your hands. :D
 
[quote name='LVPatriots']Yea, he has only played one game in his life! I forgot that Browns game was his first start dude![/QUOTE]

I was making a joke because of his last game. Don't get your panties in a bunch.
 
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