Making Video Games
- Thread starter Raelian1
- Start date
earlje
CAGiversary!
[quote name='Raelian1']It obvious that some people here like playing video games. But are there people on this forum that like making video games? I'm currently learning how to make video games for the PC. Eventually I'm going to learn how to make games for console systems.[/QUOTE]
thats like saying "i know a lot of people in this forum like driving cars, but is there anyone interested in making cars?"
now, slap yourself in the head... good.
thats like saying "i know a lot of people in this forum like driving cars, but is there anyone interested in making cars?"
now, slap yourself in the head... good.
[quote name='eldad9']Probably not... maybe one or two. How exactly are you learning? And do you actually plan to do this for a living? Age? Education? Plans?[/QUOTE]
A scientist from another planet makes the games for him...He just feeds the guy his ideas.
A scientist from another planet makes the games for him...He just feeds the guy his ideas.
Raelian1
CAG Veteran
[quote name='eldad9']Probably not... maybe one or two. How exactly are you learning? And do you actually plan to do this for a living? Age? Education? Plans?[/QUOTE]
Currently, I'm learning on my own by reading the books by Andre Lamothe. I'm almost done learning making 2D games and going to start on 3D soon. I have a BS in Computer Science and a masters in Math. so learning isn't so difficult My plans are to go to a school like Full Sail to get a more complete understand about video game programming. I won't reveal my age.
Currently, I'm learning on my own by reading the books by Andre Lamothe. I'm almost done learning making 2D games and going to start on 3D soon. I have a BS in Computer Science and a masters in Math. so learning isn't so difficult My plans are to go to a school like Full Sail to get a more complete understand about video game programming. I won't reveal my age.
If you count the simulators I used to work on, then yep, I've worked on a big expensive (at least to purchase) video game. Now I just teach 3D Studio MAX at the local community college to people that want to learn. Since the program is used by so many different industries/people for all sorts of reasons, the class isn't just focused on games. However, the college does actually have a video game program with 4 separate tracks (like Art, Programming, etc.).
I've known a good many people that have worked in the industry at various game companies. ALL of them have different (or similar in some cases) horror stories of things they went thru while working in the field. However, they also have some good stories too. Some of them still work in the industry, while others have moved on due to some of the things that are considered "the norm" which basically boil down to, 'don't expect to have a life outside of the industry' sort of thing.
When I have students in my class that are interested in getting into gaming, I do not discourage them from doing so. But, I DO let them know some of the pro's and con's that I've seen/been told over the years. In the past, smaller companies were often less stable (depending on what project they happened to be working on), but, could often provide more opportunities to do various things. Larger companies tended to be more stable, but, had a usual down side of people being pigeon-holed into doing the same thing for a long time (sometimes making it hard to get into doing other things). However, larger companies, due to the volitile nature of the industry recently, are not as stable by comparison to smaller companies as they used to be.
With the current state of things (sequal-itis), the days of many innovative title ideas being accepted (aka funded) is actually less likely than in the past. The "suits" (aka publishers) are the ones holding the purse strings. If they give the company you work for 9 months to complete a project from start to finish, guess what you are going to be working on for the next 9 months straight (often 10-12+ hours a day, 7 days a week, no time off)? That's right, the project they just purchased the video game rights for (and promised it would be out in 9 months). BTW, this example was taken DIRECTLY from it having actually happened. Suffice it to say that after the project was finished, the founders of the company, took the top level people with them and founded a new company (which has worked on current gen top selling titles and is now working on a next gen title).
Living in Austin, I've seen several (at least 4) of the top, and/or well known, companies go out of business in about the last year or so. Sure, there are still some well known ones around. But, there are not the kind of opportunities that there once was for someone in the gaming industry (at least locally). Also, keep in mind that the project you may be hired to work on (and possibly moved to a new town to get the job) could be axed at the drop of a hat by the publisher. Then, it's "cut back time" at the company you work for. Unless they have a "need" for your services (and even sometimes if they would like to keep you on) they may be forced to let you go in order to keep their doors open (while trying to acquire a new project from a publisher).
Again, I'm not trying to turn anyone away from gaming. Heck, if it wasn't for those that love to do this stuff, we wouldn't have the great games we enjoy playing day in and day out. I simply want to let people know that there are some pros AND cons involved. It's not all fun and games. Many people seem to think that once they are hired, that all their great ideas for games are just going to "happen". This is NOT the case. There is a great deal of work involved to get a project someone has a dream of getting made actually created. Just keep in mind that you MUST ABSOLUTELY LOVE THIS STUFF NO MATTER WHAT or it could turn into burnout city pretty quick (something that some developers/publishers actually bank on in some cases). Even if you do love the stuff (as some of the people I have known do/did), burnout is still an option. Only so many 24/7 days in a row can be handled (no matter how much caffine or energy drinks one consumes) before your body/brain needs a break.
One local company that went under actually let the employees work 2 weeks and basically told them (on, or right before, payday) that the doors were being shut. Let's just say that a LOT of them were banking on that paycheck to help pay their rent at the beginning of the next week.
I'm not trying to be all doom and gloom. But, I would rather more people would go into this industry with their eyes open, or at least a little more informed. Because, when it comes to life, there are more important things than games. And, having a life outside of the job is one of them. Besides, it not only sucks to lose your job, but it especially sucks to lose your "favorite" job...that's not even taking into account if you have a wife/kids/mortgage/rent/etc....
THE most important thing to keep in mind is that while making games can be fun and rewarding, it IS a business first. Decisions will be made for BUSINESS reasons when it comes to funding/cancelling/hiring/firing/etc. projects/people. Sure, it's not flipping burgers (however, working 80 hours a week for a 40 hour a week salary may mean you are actually making less per hour than the burger flipper...haha...ouch), but, it's still a business that is based upon making money.
I've known a good many people that have worked in the industry at various game companies. ALL of them have different (or similar in some cases) horror stories of things they went thru while working in the field. However, they also have some good stories too. Some of them still work in the industry, while others have moved on due to some of the things that are considered "the norm" which basically boil down to, 'don't expect to have a life outside of the industry' sort of thing.
When I have students in my class that are interested in getting into gaming, I do not discourage them from doing so. But, I DO let them know some of the pro's and con's that I've seen/been told over the years. In the past, smaller companies were often less stable (depending on what project they happened to be working on), but, could often provide more opportunities to do various things. Larger companies tended to be more stable, but, had a usual down side of people being pigeon-holed into doing the same thing for a long time (sometimes making it hard to get into doing other things). However, larger companies, due to the volitile nature of the industry recently, are not as stable by comparison to smaller companies as they used to be.
With the current state of things (sequal-itis), the days of many innovative title ideas being accepted (aka funded) is actually less likely than in the past. The "suits" (aka publishers) are the ones holding the purse strings. If they give the company you work for 9 months to complete a project from start to finish, guess what you are going to be working on for the next 9 months straight (often 10-12+ hours a day, 7 days a week, no time off)? That's right, the project they just purchased the video game rights for (and promised it would be out in 9 months). BTW, this example was taken DIRECTLY from it having actually happened. Suffice it to say that after the project was finished, the founders of the company, took the top level people with them and founded a new company (which has worked on current gen top selling titles and is now working on a next gen title).
Living in Austin, I've seen several (at least 4) of the top, and/or well known, companies go out of business in about the last year or so. Sure, there are still some well known ones around. But, there are not the kind of opportunities that there once was for someone in the gaming industry (at least locally). Also, keep in mind that the project you may be hired to work on (and possibly moved to a new town to get the job) could be axed at the drop of a hat by the publisher. Then, it's "cut back time" at the company you work for. Unless they have a "need" for your services (and even sometimes if they would like to keep you on) they may be forced to let you go in order to keep their doors open (while trying to acquire a new project from a publisher).
Again, I'm not trying to turn anyone away from gaming. Heck, if it wasn't for those that love to do this stuff, we wouldn't have the great games we enjoy playing day in and day out. I simply want to let people know that there are some pros AND cons involved. It's not all fun and games. Many people seem to think that once they are hired, that all their great ideas for games are just going to "happen". This is NOT the case. There is a great deal of work involved to get a project someone has a dream of getting made actually created. Just keep in mind that you MUST ABSOLUTELY LOVE THIS STUFF NO MATTER WHAT or it could turn into burnout city pretty quick (something that some developers/publishers actually bank on in some cases). Even if you do love the stuff (as some of the people I have known do/did), burnout is still an option. Only so many 24/7 days in a row can be handled (no matter how much caffine or energy drinks one consumes) before your body/brain needs a break.
One local company that went under actually let the employees work 2 weeks and basically told them (on, or right before, payday) that the doors were being shut. Let's just say that a LOT of them were banking on that paycheck to help pay their rent at the beginning of the next week.
I'm not trying to be all doom and gloom. But, I would rather more people would go into this industry with their eyes open, or at least a little more informed. Because, when it comes to life, there are more important things than games. And, having a life outside of the job is one of them. Besides, it not only sucks to lose your job, but it especially sucks to lose your "favorite" job...that's not even taking into account if you have a wife/kids/mortgage/rent/etc....
THE most important thing to keep in mind is that while making games can be fun and rewarding, it IS a business first. Decisions will be made for BUSINESS reasons when it comes to funding/cancelling/hiring/firing/etc. projects/people. Sure, it's not flipping burgers (however, working 80 hours a week for a 40 hour a week salary may mean you are actually making less per hour than the burger flipper...haha...ouch), but, it's still a business that is based upon making money.
OK. You're smart, and not actually a kid who draws levels with crayons; that's good. Note: I love kids, and we can all benefit from their enthusiasm and sense of wonder, but they do not plan things very well.
Now for random points.
Generally speaking, you do NOT want a job in the industry. A lot of people do, so companies take advantage, even more than normal software dev; your personal life takes a huge hit, and you get burnt up in a few years and lucky if you can still enjoy games later. Do a search on EA_spouse.
It's also really difficult to break into the business, because there are so many people etc. Especially at your age (sorry, we might be around the same age for all I know). One of the ways to do it is to write a small game and get noticed... but again a lot of people do that.
Modern games take much, much longer to develop than older titles. Complication, graphics, sound, and the killer: 3D. In the 2D age I almost always knew exactly how to make the games I was playing, except for a few points (how do they make the ghosts find their way around the maze? - as a kid, of course) . Now - forget about it. And look at a game like myst; 5% programming (if that), 95% graphics, sound, and design.
You can't really just start developing for a console, at least not properly. NDAs, dev kits, tens of thousands of dollars, and nobody's talking to individuals. Nintendo promised this would change. We'll see.
What to do if you'd like to write little games? You probably want to work on either fun/small PC games (check out jayisgames.com and stuff) or get into GBA / DS programming (there are several sites that teach the basics, you'll need to invest a couple hundred dollars in a flash cart at some point). Hopefully that's enough to dissuade you or let you know you can't do anything else.
It seems the only people who make money (I wish I could find that one article) on their own are those who write the fun / addictive / puzzly games (bejeweled, etc).
There are many sites for amateur / indie developers, but I can't give you any links.
I hope that helped. You can always PM me and whatnos. I haven't actually written a complete game beyond a tetris clone and a puzzle Java applet (a remake of a forgotten game gear title) (sorry, it's not online any more), and neither of them had any polish (music or even animations) but I do know a lot about programming and at some point was considering picking up GBA dev for fun, but it turns out pretty much everything I tried to do has already been done.
Now for random points.
Generally speaking, you do NOT want a job in the industry. A lot of people do, so companies take advantage, even more than normal software dev; your personal life takes a huge hit, and you get burnt up in a few years and lucky if you can still enjoy games later. Do a search on EA_spouse.
It's also really difficult to break into the business, because there are so many people etc. Especially at your age (sorry, we might be around the same age for all I know). One of the ways to do it is to write a small game and get noticed... but again a lot of people do that.
Modern games take much, much longer to develop than older titles. Complication, graphics, sound, and the killer: 3D. In the 2D age I almost always knew exactly how to make the games I was playing, except for a few points (how do they make the ghosts find their way around the maze? - as a kid, of course) . Now - forget about it. And look at a game like myst; 5% programming (if that), 95% graphics, sound, and design.
You can't really just start developing for a console, at least not properly. NDAs, dev kits, tens of thousands of dollars, and nobody's talking to individuals. Nintendo promised this would change. We'll see.
What to do if you'd like to write little games? You probably want to work on either fun/small PC games (check out jayisgames.com and stuff) or get into GBA / DS programming (there are several sites that teach the basics, you'll need to invest a couple hundred dollars in a flash cart at some point). Hopefully that's enough to dissuade you or let you know you can't do anything else.
It seems the only people who make money (I wish I could find that one article) on their own are those who write the fun / addictive / puzzly games (bejeweled, etc).
There are many sites for amateur / indie developers, but I can't give you any links.
I hope that helped. You can always PM me and whatnos. I haven't actually written a complete game beyond a tetris clone and a puzzle Java applet (a remake of a forgotten game gear title) (sorry, it's not online any more), and neither of them had any polish (music or even animations) but I do know a lot about programming and at some point was considering picking up GBA dev for fun, but it turns out pretty much everything I tried to do has already been done.
AlbinoNinja
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
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i never thought of working in the game industry, although i do have some (IMO) decent ideas. And yes, i have toyed with the thought of making games (using www.gamemaker.nl) but ive never spent any serious time on it, just once or twice on boring afternoons.
and yes, i got the burn
and yes, i got the burn
Well, both of you, let us know which sites seem to help with getting started both technically and socially, and what you decide to do (platform, language, game type). If you're not trying to do this for a living you're going to have much more fun since you can just run with your creativity.
I agree 100% with eldad9. The old saying of "if you do something you like, you will never work a day in your life" is a nice idea. But, ideas and reality are sometimes a trainwreck when they meet. :}
Keep in mind that there are 3 things about a job that are important...
#1) The job itself. AKA the work they are paying you to do.
#2) The pay. The amount of money they are paying you to do #1.
#3) The people you work with. From the bosses to the co-workers, this can have a big impact on your view of the place.
Sure, you are not very likely to find a job that meets ALL three 100% to your satisfaction. But, hey, that's just life. However, if any one of these is out of balance, it can throw the whole thing off and make you want to look elsewhere for a job. It also works in the opposite direction. One of the factors can be SO good that you are willing to overlook the other two. See, it's not all doom and gloom. :}
In any case, you can have MUCH more fun and control over the projects YOU want to work on by doing it as a hobby. Sure, you won't have all the fame and glory of working in the game industry (which usually amounts to a cubicle and all the sodas you can drink), but, at least you will be able to work on the things YOU want to. When you are working on someone elses dime, they get to call the shots.
If you can handle working on mods/etc. as part of a team, then you may want to explore further into the industry. But, at the least, do yourself the favor of getting involved at a lower level and learn something before jumping in with both feet. It's not like most (okay, 99.99%) pro football players never played ANY football before entering the NFL, right? They did it on their own or in school, liked it, and THEN decided to continue with it as a career. Just do the same kind of thing for yourself. It should also be kept in mind that the majority of people that "make it" in any industry have usually worked at it for a while (either for free, on their own, or for little pay) before becoming successful.
Keep in mind that there are 3 things about a job that are important...
#1) The job itself. AKA the work they are paying you to do.
#2) The pay. The amount of money they are paying you to do #1.
#3) The people you work with. From the bosses to the co-workers, this can have a big impact on your view of the place.
Sure, you are not very likely to find a job that meets ALL three 100% to your satisfaction. But, hey, that's just life. However, if any one of these is out of balance, it can throw the whole thing off and make you want to look elsewhere for a job. It also works in the opposite direction. One of the factors can be SO good that you are willing to overlook the other two. See, it's not all doom and gloom. :}
In any case, you can have MUCH more fun and control over the projects YOU want to work on by doing it as a hobby. Sure, you won't have all the fame and glory of working in the game industry (which usually amounts to a cubicle and all the sodas you can drink), but, at least you will be able to work on the things YOU want to. When you are working on someone elses dime, they get to call the shots.
If you can handle working on mods/etc. as part of a team, then you may want to explore further into the industry. But, at the least, do yourself the favor of getting involved at a lower level and learn something before jumping in with both feet. It's not like most (okay, 99.99%) pro football players never played ANY football before entering the NFL, right? They did it on their own or in school, liked it, and THEN decided to continue with it as a career. Just do the same kind of thing for yourself. It should also be kept in mind that the majority of people that "make it" in any industry have usually worked at it for a while (either for free, on their own, or for little pay) before becoming successful.
Photomotoz
CAGiversary!
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Hey I have a question to you guys who know some stuff about this. How much are C++ and Visual Basic used in devloping games and what are the main programs programmer use.
P0ldy
CAGiversary!
Knowing nothing of game development, I think you might find an open-source game in development right now interesting. You might even be able to help them out...
http://www.planeshift.it/about.html
http://www.planeshift.it/about.html
I made a few games using game maker http://www.gamemaker.nl/, its a great way to practice game design.
Well, people working on first, small projects for the PC use the microsoft stuff (visual c/basic). I heard only good things about realbasic (search for it) and Most of those puzzly games are probably done using either some C/C++ or technologies from macromedia (flash/shockwave/whatever). Then of course there are the Java applets... There's no end to what you can do, the first things are to find a community of indie developers and decide on a target platform / language.
semi-random links:
http://www.gamasutra.com/
http://www.devrs.com/
http://www.gamedev.net/
http://www.gbadev.org/
http://forums.indiegamer.com/
http://www.velocityvector.com/indiegames/
http://indiegamedev.tucows.com/
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/10/14/1719202 (the article I was looking for earlier)
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/7/28/235328/642
semi-random links:
http://www.gamasutra.com/
http://www.devrs.com/
http://www.gamedev.net/
http://www.gbadev.org/
http://forums.indiegamer.com/
http://www.velocityvector.com/indiegames/
http://indiegamedev.tucows.com/
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/10/14/1719202 (the article I was looking for earlier)
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/7/28/235328/642
If you're interested in modding, the UT2k4: Editor's Choice DVD comes with a bonus dvd with videos instructing you on making maps in 3dmax or Maya (I can't remeber which). They are very detailed and long. The videos aren't a cheap and quick bonus item. I never got very far into them, but those were some of the best tutorials I have seen.
I was also wanting to work in the game industry. I was even looking at the game design degree at ITT tech. I ended up not doing that since I'm not really that into programming right now and I'm not that artistic. That and I've heard some of the horror stories. I decided to keep gaming as a hobby and not as a career. Better to do something on the side and enjoy myself.
I still wish I could get more into it. I have a very detailed story in my head for an rpg. It's just that I know I won't probably ever do it since rpgs are such a large project.
I was also wanting to work in the game industry. I was even looking at the game design degree at ITT tech. I ended up not doing that since I'm not really that into programming right now and I'm not that artistic. That and I've heard some of the horror stories. I decided to keep gaming as a hobby and not as a career. Better to do something on the side and enjoy myself.
I still wish I could get more into it. I have a very detailed story in my head for an rpg. It's just that I know I won't probably ever do it since rpgs are such a large project.
U2K Tha Greate$t
Banned
I use the mugen engine to make 4 fighting games that is still unreleased on my end, and i made some gta III pc skins while back and i am working on speed devils 3 using another game engine ( no name ) and i am learning how to make games using another game engine that i rather not comment about it.
No C++ thing tho, thats not my style, i like premade stuff with the extra boost.
No C++ thing tho, thats not my style, i like premade stuff with the extra boost.
[quote name='eldad9']Maybe your story would be happier as a book?[/QUOTE]
It might be, but I was really interested in the interactive aspect of it. I was wanting an explorable world. You can do that with your imagination, but it can be more fun to play that. I just think the story fits a game better than a book.
It might be, but I was really interested in the interactive aspect of it. I was wanting an explorable world. You can do that with your imagination, but it can be more fun to play that. I just think the story fits a game better than a book.
U2K Tha Greate$t
Banned
[quote name='eldad9']/me blinks in confusion. No, it still doesn't make any sense.
U2K, for maximum impact you should probably not comment on any of these.[/QUOTE]
Using the mugen engine is consider making a game, or do you think not?
U2K, for maximum impact you should probably not comment on any of these.[/QUOTE]
Using the mugen engine is consider making a game, or do you think not?
bread's done