Mass Effect 3 Discussion Thread

I finished up Overlord and Arrival today. I enjoyed both of them. The Hammerhead was way better driving then the Mako. Going to start a new Mass Effect 3 game later tonight.
 
Any chance we'll ever see/hear Hale/Meer's acceptance speech if they had won character of the year? All 5 sets of VO actors had to record an acceptance speech since it was a live vote.

Also over under on Omega being part of a 1-day sale for Holiday? Waiting for it to go on sale plus this next (and final?) DLC before I do a new game plus to do all the DLC in a playthrough.
And this time F the Krogan w/o Wrex and the queen to lead them so they don't go ballistic over the galaxy.
 
http://gamersyndrome.com/2012/video...ks-with-bioware-about-the-mass-effect-series/

GS: Now that another Mass Effect game has been announced, why was it decided to not only change studios (Edmonton to Montreal) but also to change game engines? Will we still experience the same style, choices, and action we’ve come to know in Mass Effect games? Does changing engines delay the games release date?

BioWare: While I can’t comment on why it changed studios, fans can expect a similar style of choices and action that they’ve come to know in Mass Effect. Casey Hudson is very much involved in the new Mass Effect game, as well as many from Edmonton. BioWare Montreal is a great studio and they did fantastic with the multiplayer for Mass Effect 3, so fans should know the series is in good hands. The game isn’t far along in development so I can’t comment on specifics because they isn’t any yet, Frostbite 2 is a really good game engine that we are also using on Dragon Age 3. As far as release date, there’s nothing to be announced yet. You’ll hear more about the new Mass Effect game [next year] in 2013.

GS: If you were to give a rough idea on a release window, what would you say?

BioWare: Late 2014 to Mid 2015. I honestly can’t tell you an exact because full development on the game started a month or two ago.
Click to expand...
 
My guess is it changed studios because the Edmonton team is working on a new IP, which they've stated elsewhere. Guess my hopes for Jade Empire 2 are further shelved.
 
Even though that article really didn't say anything of any substance, it still makes me happy knowing that we will spend more time in this universe. I just hope that the series isn't pushed aside as a 2nd tier property and given half-hearted attention. Montreal HAS done a good job with every aspect of the series they've been involved with and the writing is still coming, or at least being supervised, by the series mainstays. A very good thing.

Speaking of writing on the ME series, does anybody know if they ever fixed that Deception novel? For the heck of it I was trolling Amazon and went to that books page to see if there was any mention of a revision and there wasn't. Didn't they flat-out commit to fixing some of the most glaring mistakes? I could have sworn they did. Not that there was any chance of saving that atrocity.
 
I know what the new 'threat' to the galaxy will be;
Sowers

They are going to use more space magic to go around and change the endings that Hudson & Walters wrote.
;)
 
With an increase of homemade cookies, crayon-colored cards, and cartons of Eggnog making their way into the office, it means that the holidays are almost here! It’s been a fantastic year, and there is much rejoicing to partake in, but for now, we’re tired. The time has come to cash in our paid time off and break for a winter vacation.

So, beginning December 21st the BioWare offices will be closed for the holidays. Multiplayer fans, please be aware that there will be no N7 Bounty Weekends for the weekends of December 28th or January 4th. Now before you go replacing the candy in our stockings with coal, we’ve prepared a little something for you as our way of wishing you a happy holiday season!

3 Kits Unlocked (Drell Assassin, Batarian Slasher, and Volus Protector)
All Hazard Maps Available
Two new card packs to help fill out your collections
Thank you for all of your amazing support this year, and especially for playing. We’ll see you in 2013!
 
Need dat Volus Vanguard. I'm gonna hit up those character packs to unlock the remaining kits I don't have. I'm liking these changes, even if temporary.
 
[quote name='theredworm']With an increase of homemade cookies, crayon-colored cards, and cartons of Eggnog making their way into the office, it means that the holidays are almost here! It’s been a fantastic year, and there is much rejoicing to partake in, but for now, we’re tired. The time has come to cash in our paid time off and break for a winter vacation.

So, beginning December 21st the BioWare offices will be closed for the holidays. Multiplayer fans, please be aware that there will be no N7 Bounty Weekends for the weekends of December 28th or January 4th. Now before you go replacing the candy in our stockings with coal, we’ve prepared a little something for you as our way of wishing you a happy holiday season!

3 Kits Unlocked (Drell Assassin, Batarian Slasher, and Volus Protector)
All Hazard Maps Available
Two new card packs to help fill out your collections
Thank you for all of your amazing support this year, and especially for playing. We’ll see you in 2013![/QUOTE]

I thought them card packs were new. I wonder what the chances of an ultra rare are in them.
 
I've had about 50% drop rate of ultra rares in the new packs, from what I've been seeing around the internet most are having very good luck from them as well.
 
Okay, I was playing with Chubbyninja tonight and we both unlocked the Volus Protector at the same time. I was looking forward to this character, although I admit I thought he was pretty much a joke. So I was pretty surprised at how well that little ball of biotic fury was able to hold his own on Silver/London/Reapers. Not a bad character at all. FEAR ME!
 
Yeah, that was a lot of fun playing with the Twin Biotic Balls of Death (decked out in red and green for Christmas, to boot!)! I was having so much fun throwing the orbs, followed by a biotic charge, that I nearly forgot about his shield boost. I think I only went down a couple times, which for the first time using a character and one that's not all that rugged.....and with another Volus running around. Not too bad, if I don't say so myself.

This was the one MP character I was looking forward to ever since they announced MP. He did not disappoint. I smelled his greatness!
 
Completed the challenge late last night and saved all my credits for the new 2 x rare character prone pack. Well I got two rares, but they were rare gear cards. BOO! I still don't have a Krogan!

Only rare character I have so far is the Vocha Soldier. I haven't used him yet as he doesn't seem durable.
 
[quote name='xtreme_Zr2']Completed the challenge late last night and saved all my credits for the new 2 x rare character prone pack. Well I got two rares, but they were rare gear cards. BOO! I still don't have a Krogan!

Only rare character I have so far is the Vocha Soldier. I haven't used him yet as he doesn't seem durable.[/QUOTE]

He has health regeneration with Bloodlust, can't get much more durable than having your health come back by itself. The more kills you get the quicker your health regenerates, he is a great character.
 
I got a reserve pack (more likely for character unlocks) and got only a human soldier + 2 gold gear unlocks. That ticked me off, too.

Then a few days later I unlocked a couple of good characters, including that Volus Protector. Don't give up on those packs yet.
 
Well, my copy of Paragon Lost arrived today. Spybreaker already posted his thoughts on the film itself, and I haven't watched it yet. But, the package itself is nicely done. It has a foil sleeve, double-sided insert with cool art on the inside, a code for a mp DLC pack (let's hope this one works), a "Forever Normandy" sticker and then the DVD disc and BR disc.

It's ME merch telling a tale of a major character who I believe could very well be a lead in future iterations of the series. They had me at ME merch. =P~
 
Great video. I just wish the person's computer could've been able to better handle some of the cutscenes.

At least he got smart with Mass Effect 3 and decided to record video from the Xbox 360.
 
I like how there is no shown scenes from the "catalyst" nor the tell me more about the Shepard crap end. Really ending the game and then just bringing you back to the CIC on the Normandy was a wtf moment (bring us back to the menu at least).
 
Clearly, it wasn't considered worthy of being called an "epic" moment :lol:

And yea, get rid of that stuff. Someone was partying too hard toward the end and got sloppy.
 
Does Mass Effect DLC ever go on sale? Or the point cards?

I'm trying to decide what DLC I should get because I'm at the point in ME2 where I have to buy it or just move on and beat the game and move onto ME3.
 
Sigh, this thread is so dead. I only return after finishing AC3 so of course the comparisons begin. No spoilers. I did like the AC3 ending miles better than the ME3 ending. Sadly, story-telling weaknesses and TONS of glitches hurt the experience overall. Which is sad, since it had so much promise and I ended up really liking Connor's story.

So here I am, reflecting on this ending again. And it is hopelessly dead. Even the nice additions from Leviathan gave some nice discussion points, but nothing that really cemented an ending for me. I actually sat and discussed this with a friend for an hour or two, and there is no true ending for my Paragon Shepard. I guess the discussion is what they intended with the ending, but for me it's only longing. Longing for the closure I will not get. Le sigh.
 
[quote name='Lord_Kefka']Longing for the closure I will not get. Le sigh.[/QUOTE]

If they continue the Mass Effect universe past the events of the first trilogy (instead of some sort of prequel), it seems that they'll have to definitively provide some closure. I can't imagine any follow-up the retains the current ambiguity.

Right now, I think there's two possible ways to interpret the ending to Mass Effect. One is the angry internet hordes interpretation that Bioware's writers aren't terribly bright and botched the ending, what you saw is what you get. A problem with that interpretation is that it makes the choice at the end of ME3 not matter. The choices that don't lead to a mission failure have mutually exclusive outcomes IF you accept that events happened as they were presented. Would the follow-up have hybrid AI/organics? No AI? What?

On the other hand, if something like the indoctrination theory turns out to be right and the reapers were tricking Shepard into picking the "control" or "synthesis" options, then the "destroy" option becomes the true Paragon choice. In the case the indoctrination interpretation is 'correct', any chronological follow-up can have the Reapers destroyed, either with Shepard's help ("destroy") or after Shepard's failure ("synthesis" and "control").

Shout out to Phokis's [post=10225327]post[/post] earlier in the thread for getting me thinking.
 
[quote name='ArmyOfFun']If they continue the Mass Effect universe past the events of the first trilogy (instead of some sort of prequel), it seems that they'll have to definitively provide some closure. I can't imagine any follow-up the retains the current ambiguity.

Right now, I think there's two possible ways to interpret the ending to Mass Effect. One is the angry internet hordes interpretation that Bioware's writers aren't terribly bright and botched the ending, what you saw is what you get. A problem with that interpretation is that it makes the choice at the end of ME3 not matter. The choices that don't lead to a mission failure have mutually exclusive outcomes IF you accept that events happened as they were presented. Would the follow-up have hybrid AI/organics? No AI? What?

On the other hand, if something like the indoctrination theory turns out to be right and the reapers were tricking Shepard into picking the "control" or "synthesis" options, then the "destroy" option becomes the true Paragon choice. In the case the indoctrination interpretation is 'correct', any chronological follow-up can have the Reapers destroyed, either with Shepard's help ("destroy") or after Shepard's failure ("synthesis" and "control").

Shout out to Phokis's [post=10225327]post[/post] earlier in the thread for getting me thinking.[/QUOTE]

Of course, now we go completely into spoiler territory....so for those curious, this will cover the endings yet again.

Well, just from the perspective of the narrative and the ending situation we have, the only way they can do any kind of sequel is to jump WAY far ahead in time (like whole new races) or give some kind of base ending import utility. Something very high level in which races lived and which ending you chose type of deal. Even then, it's hard to really have a threat unless you introduce some new threat from out of nowhere, and even then the scope of threat would be severely less. If they even tried, it would come across almost comical. So I'm betting prequel.

The reason to even write all this is to give you my side of your statement about choices. None of them work for me....for my Shepard and the choices I made. In fact, the two I lean more towards (although both still have issues) are the ones I would normally not choose or like the least. Again, perhaps this was in their plan but allow me to detail some of the conversation points.

Destroy: Does not work for a Paragon Shepard. I just brokered peace between Geth and Quarians, helped the Geth transcend into a race, and talked EDI through nuanced conversations about the nature of organic existence as she tries to make herself more "human". Turning around and choosing genocide for the Geth and killing a close friend in EDI to stop the Reapers? Well, it's a tough pill to swallow. The "derp derp" internet hordes who point that being the "true, good" ending seem to miss that point. Yes, it does allude to Shepard surviving, but the life of that one character doesn't equate to being the right choice. If you were a Renegade Shep, perfect. Heck, the default new Shep for ME2 or ME3 totally leans that way, making those kind of choices the default canon. It does accomplish Shepard's almost singular end-goal, but the variables have changed in the equation. If Shepard doesn't adjust to this new information, Shepard is no better than the Star Child. This connects heavily to the next ending....

Synthesis: Here is my problem with it.....I don't trust it. According to the Star Child, it's the final form of evolution. The starchild seems to believe it's the perfect form. It couldn't accomplish synthesis on it's own, so Shepard becomes the catalyst. OK, I see that. My argument is the source. The Leviathan DLC becomes key here, which again makes it upsetting that it was DLC and not deemed crucial to the story. Yes, you make the same choices in the end but the background of the Reapers (and heck even the "From Ashes" DLC with the Prothean story) become key story points which should guide your decision. Star Child is an Artifical Intelligence. Not a god, demi-god, whatever. It's a construct, a program given a problem to solve. And that makes it faulty.

Think on this, you write a program to solve the gun problem in America. You give it all the hard variables, all the facts. It decides that in order to solve the gun problem, it must destroy all humans. Does that solve the problem of gun violence? Yeah, because humanity is extinct. But is that the right answer? An AI just understands solving a problem, not any ethical repercussions of its choice. And the Reaper Star Child AI is just that. Creating a solution, no matter how much worse it is than the problem. And in the extended cut, Star Child refers to Synthesis as the ultimate solution. The inevitable and perfect choice.

Further to this point, the AI has been proven wrong in this cycle. Synthetics (the Geth) didn't rise up and rebel against their creators. That was the point of that whole Geth-Quarian mission in ME3. You learn they were defending themselves from the Quarians. And when they drove them off, they didn't seek out further violence. They hid themselves away, and they even showed the first signs of independent thinking when some of them sided with Saren and Sovereign. It was a split among the Geth, when they should all be of one mind. But they came up with two solutions and caused a rift.

Connect this to Javik. In his time, the Protheans were a master race, much like the Leviathans who created the Reaper AI. Machines were not to be trusted and rose up against organics. But that cycle has been broken now. My Shepard brokered peace, the Geth are advancing on their own and now peaceful with their creators. The problem the AI was created to fix does not even exist. EDI was the AI from Mars that struck out against humans, that's because of how Cerberus was affecting it and making it self-aware. But she has transcended that existence with Shepard's guidance and her connection to Joker.

That is a long way to say that if this is the preferred choice of the Reaper AI, I don't trust it. Shepard is making a massive decision for all life in galaxy, changing their entire DNA without their consent or input. Evolution doesn't consent either, but it happens naturally and over time. This feels wrong, like a promise of Utopia. All races suddenly become infused with Synthetic connections, and transcend to this perfect state along with the restoration of all the previous races consciousness in Reaper form? It's the end of evolution, no more struggle, no more perseverance, no more hope, no more art. Everything stagnates, and thus ends. Shepard asks why it wasn't done before, Star Child vaguely says they tried and failed. It cannot be forced, organics were not ready. Well....just because Shepard is doesn't mean all organics are ready, that is forcing it upon them.

The Rejection ending: Shepard chooses to not force one of these endings upon the galaxy, which honestly kinda works for my Shepard. It's rejecting that this is the only possible end (i.e. some other solution could present itself, this is all indoctrination theory, etc). Too bad Bioware made this the fuck you ending. You don't like our endings, fine. Everyone dies. You happy now? Real mature Bioware. Assholes.

Control: The Shepard becomes Super Jesus ending. Why it doesn't work: Because it's too big. We're not meant to control it. That is what Shepard says to the main sub-enemy of Mass Effect 3 in the Illusive Man. And it shows that I.M. is under Reaper control, indoctrinated. We can't seize control of them, we can't try to wield their power and own them. It's in the face of everything Shepard has said to indoctrinated foes from the beginning. So yeah, it's OK now. Shepard is here, so that must be kosher. WTF. Shepard dies, but his/her memories and focus basically rewrite the AI. Shepard becomes the Catalyst. No longer human, but his/her motivations as one now provide the Reapers directive of preserving all life, synthetic and organic. In that way, it's the ending that works most for me. Even though it's the one that not more than 10 minutes prior to choosing that SHEPARD HIM/HERSELF says is impossible. The best I can say is that Shepard getting there, free of indoctrination and imposed will proves to the AI that the solution no longer works and a new one must be chosen (as said by Star Child). And at this point, the AI is willing to accept a new directive. It has no self-preservation interest, it has no evolution of perception of itself or life unlike the other synthetic races in the game. It saw Shepard as a threat since if it beat the Reapers than the cycle would only continue unchecked. With control, it's technically still working to solve the problem....just allowing Shepard to be the controlling influence on how. The problem there becomes if this new focus becomes too singular and causes a similar situation where it corrects a problem in a horrible way.

So you see....in the end I was one of the "raving uneducated masses" that hated the endings initially. You know, because I thought about it. The indoctrination theory was a huge hope for me. So in the end.....le sigh.
 
It's funny because I recently re-watched the Lord of the Rings trilogy, thinking how similar it was to Mass Effect. You know, with Sauron/Ring-Wraiths being like the Reapers/Saren and Illusive Man.

And I kept wishing my Shepard would just throw the damn Ring in the molten lava and be done with it. But nooooo... We have to get this nonsense about "organics suck, so you can't just kill the damn Reapers because that kind of ending wouldn't have weight. So you must sacrifice. Ha ha ha..." (it was June when the EC released, which was 6 months ago, so I'm not concerned with spoilers anymore).

Also, I don't believe the theory that the ME writers botched the ending. I believe the theory that the writers had written something pretty good, but someone at BioWare didn't like it (for some stupid and idiotic, George Lucas-y reason probably) and changed it himself. Thus, the PoS ending we have now.

One more thing, the overwhelming opinion of ME fans is to continue with the same universe, after the events of ME3. It was the choice that won in the poll. So, unless BioWare intends to say "fuckyou!" to the fans once again, I'd think they're going with post-ME3.
 
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Well.....that's was just off-putting. Gross, Crotch. Either a mod deleted that pic or something, but I'm glad its gone.

Anyway....back to the present, I finally finished watching Paragon Lost. I liked it. I have to take it as 3/4 canon and a solid backstory for Vega that is presented as an 'over the top' representation of actual events, if you know what I mean. Sure, some of it was a little bit of a repeat of what Shepard did in ME2. But, when I look at it as Vega's story and a meaningful story that sets up ME3, I really liked it. It was emotional and it was constructed A LOT like an ME game with the lead character having to face an extremely difficult, no-win, decision.

Good stuff and definitely better than Dragon Age: Dawn of the Seeker. If nothing else, it has a clear chronological place in the ME timeline and gives significant back story to a major character. They worked a lot of the weapons into the flick too. Very cool. I'd give it at least a B+.
 
[quote name='Lord_Kefka']Of course, now we go completely into spoiler territory....so for those curious, this will cover the endings yet again.

Well, just from the perspective of the narrative and the ending situation we have, the only way they can do any kind of sequel is to jump WAY far ahead in time (like whole new races) or give some kind of base ending import utility. Something very high level in which races lived and which ending you chose type of deal. Even then, it's hard to really have a threat unless you introduce some new threat from out of nowhere, and even then the scope of threat would be severely less. If they even tried, it would come across almost comical. So I'm betting prequel.

The reason to even write all this is to give you my side of your statement about choices. None of them work for me....for my Shepard and the choices I made. In fact, the two I lean more towards (although both still have issues) are the ones I would normally not choose or like the least. Again, perhaps this was in their plan but allow me to detail some of the conversation points.

Destroy: Does not work for a Paragon Shepard. I just brokered peace between Geth and Quarians, helped the Geth transcend into a race, and talked EDI through nuanced conversations about the nature of organic existence as she tries to make herself more "human". Turning around and choosing genocide for the Geth and killing a close friend in EDI to stop the Reapers? Well, it's a tough pill to swallow. The "derp derp" internet hordes who point that being the "true, good" ending seem to miss that point. Yes, it does allude to Shepard surviving, but the life of that one character doesn't equate to being the right choice. If you were a Renegade Shep, perfect. Heck, the default new Shep for ME2 or ME3 totally leans that way, making those kind of choices the default canon. It does accomplish Shepard's almost singular end-goal, but the variables have changed in the equation. If Shepard doesn't adjust to this new information, Shepard is no better than the Star Child. This connects heavily to the next ending....

Synthesis: Here is my problem with it.....I don't trust it. According to the Star Child, it's the final form of evolution. The starchild seems to believe it's the perfect form. It couldn't accomplish synthesis on it's own, so Shepard becomes the catalyst. OK, I see that. My argument is the source. The Leviathan DLC becomes key here, which again makes it upsetting that it was DLC and not deemed crucial to the story. Yes, you make the same choices in the end but the background of the Reapers (and heck even the "From Ashes" DLC with the Prothean story) become key story points which should guide your decision. Star Child is an Artifical Intelligence. Not a god, demi-god, whatever. It's a construct, a program given a problem to solve. And that makes it faulty.

Think on this, you write a program to solve the gun problem in America. You give it all the hard variables, all the facts. It decides that in order to solve the gun problem, it must destroy all humans. Does that solve the problem of gun violence? Yeah, because humanity is extinct. But is that the right answer? An AI just understands solving a problem, not any ethical repercussions of its choice. And the Reaper Star Child AI is just that. Creating a solution, no matter how much worse it is than the problem. And in the extended cut, Star Child refers to Synthesis as the ultimate solution. The inevitable and perfect choice.

Further to this point, the AI has been proven wrong in this cycle. Synthetics (the Geth) didn't rise up and rebel against their creators. That was the point of that whole Geth-Quarian mission in ME3. You learn they were defending themselves from the Quarians. And when they drove them off, they didn't seek out further violence. They hid themselves away, and they even showed the first signs of independent thinking when some of them sided with Saren and Sovereign. It was a split among the Geth, when they should all be of one mind. But they came up with two solutions and caused a rift.

Connect this to Javik. In his time, the Protheans were a master race, much like the Leviathans who created the Reaper AI. Machines were not to be trusted and rose up against organics. But that cycle has been broken now. My Shepard brokered peace, the Geth are advancing on their own and now peaceful with their creators. The problem the AI was created to fix does not even exist. EDI was the AI from Mars that struck out against humans, that's because of how Cerberus was affecting it and making it self-aware. But she has transcended that existence with Shepard's guidance and her connection to Joker.

That is a long way to say that if this is the preferred choice of the Reaper AI, I don't trust it. Shepard is making a massive decision for all life in galaxy, changing their entire DNA without their consent or input. Evolution doesn't consent either, but it happens naturally and over time. This feels wrong, like a promise of Utopia. All races suddenly become infused with Synthetic connections, and transcend to this perfect state along with the restoration of all the previous races consciousness in Reaper form? It's the end of evolution, no more struggle, no more perseverance, no more hope, no more art. Everything stagnates, and thus ends. Shepard asks why it wasn't done before, Star Child vaguely says they tried and failed. It cannot be forced, organics were not ready. Well....just because Shepard is doesn't mean all organics are ready, that is forcing it upon them.

The Rejection ending: Shepard chooses to not force one of these endings upon the galaxy, which honestly kinda works for my Shepard. It's rejecting that this is the only possible end (i.e. some other solution could present itself, this is all indoctrination theory, etc). Too bad Bioware made this the fuck you ending. You don't like our endings, fine. Everyone dies. You happy now? Real mature Bioware. Assholes.

Control: The Shepard becomes Super Jesus ending. Why it doesn't work: Because it's too big. We're not meant to control it. That is what Shepard says to the main sub-enemy of Mass Effect 3 in the Illusive Man. And it shows that I.M. is under Reaper control, indoctrinated. We can't seize control of them, we can't try to wield their power and own them. It's in the face of everything Shepard has said to indoctrinated foes from the beginning. So yeah, it's OK now. Shepard is here, so that must be kosher. WTF. Shepard dies, but his/her memories and focus basically rewrite the AI. Shepard becomes the Catalyst. No longer human, but his/her motivations as one now provide the Reapers directive of preserving all life, synthetic and organic. In that way, it's the ending that works most for me. Even though it's the one that not more than 10 minutes prior to choosing that SHEPARD HIM/HERSELF says is impossible. The best I can say is that Shepard getting there, free of indoctrination and imposed will proves to the AI that the solution no longer works and a new one must be chosen (as said by Star Child). And at this point, the AI is willing to accept a new directive. It has no self-preservation interest, it has no evolution of perception of itself or life unlike the other synthetic races in the game. It saw Shepard as a threat since if it beat the Reapers than the cycle would only continue unchecked. With control, it's technically still working to solve the problem....just allowing Shepard to be the controlling influence on how. The problem there becomes if this new focus becomes too singular and causes a similar situation where it corrects a problem in a horrible way.

So you see....in the end I was one of the "raving uneducated masses" that hated the endings initially. You know, because I thought about it. The indoctrination theory was a huge hope for me. So in the end.....le sigh.
[/QUOTE]


Well, I feel a little special now. I wasn't sure if anyone actually followed the links and listened to my podcast. However, the ending has an even neater bow tied than you think:


Spoilers:


At the point that Harbinger (the first Reaper as told from Leviathan, leader of the Reaper Invasion force on Earth from ME3 dialog, main Antagonist of ME2, and only named ME3 Antagonist that isn't just a puppet ie Cerberus) hits you with the beam and knocks you on your ass, you are dreaming, again. I say again because all of the previous dream sequences with the boy (who likely ever existed) were also Indoctrination dreams.

The point is that the final decision is: Control/Ally with the Reapers, Join/Ally with the Reapers, or Do anything to Destroy the Reapers. None of these outcomes actually happens, they are all just in Shepard's mind. The Star Child (likely Harbinger) says "Similar methods have been tried in the past, but they have always failed." "(this) is something that cannot be forced."

You are really just picking: Accept the Reapers vs. Don't Ally with Repears. Loosely, the Illusive Man picked Control, while Saren picked Synthesis, as their logic when allying with the Reapers.

So, the actual 3 endings of ME3 all end with Shepard on the ground at the foot of the beam, with Harbinger still standing over him attempting to take his mind, just like he says he is going to throughout ME2 and specifically at the end of ME2's Arrival DLC. Then Shepard stands up. If you picked Blue or Green and he gets up with Illusive Man/Saren/Husk eyes (which he gets in the cinematics for those endings right before dissolving, watch the eyes), pick Red and he just gets up.

That's where we're at: the Reapers are still here, everything is still under attack, and we're all going to die. It's a pretty dark ending, but that's to be expected given the trend. Think back to ME1, where most enemies were clean, shiny robots; to ME2 where they were Indoctrinated Prothean husks/Collectors, to the end of ME2 where you have corpse piles and human sacrifice to birth a new god, to ME3's abominations (either the Reaper forces' monsters, or the mutilated Cerberus faces hidden under masks). The dark horrors/gods have arrived from dark space and are killing everything and everyone. This isn't Hellboy or Lovecraft where we are trying to stop the portal from opening; the portal has opened and they've been here for a month or two, wiping out worlds. If it's never addressed in any post-ME3 content, the logical assumption is we lose this cycle.

If the endings actually did happen, why not spend 3 seconds showing Harbinger dying? Why "assume" his defeat when he is the primary antagonist of ME2 and personally responsible for leading the Earth forces and killing everyone there, too?

ME4 could easily address and wrap all the storlyines together again. For example: the Geth, either they get decimated by the Quarians and hate you, or you gave them Reaper code and they get decimated during the final fight. Just being near dead Reaper pieces is enough to Indoctrinate, so either way, the Geth are likely bad guys in any post-ME3 game. Quarians can similarly be handled (lots of casualties but few survivors during Geth fight, or during final fight). The Krogans: cure only worked for a bit but mutates again, giving them the same problem as before, as Mordin explained it can do in ME2. Etc, etc. A direct sequel, still starring Shepard or someone else, is certainly possible.

ME2 also had the "Dead-end" ending where Shepard dies, forcing players to play the end a certain way in order to have an importable game into ME3. The "Suicide mission" and this possibility were actually huge, hyped pre-release features for ME2. Bioware could easily force people to pick Destroy or not have an importable game, though given the numbers of people who picked the other endings and violently reject the possibility of the Indoctrination Theory, they should be rethinking this idea. The backlash would be huge. I don't think they predicted that people would be so loyal to their endings, and that perhaps brain washing the player was not the best idea.

The trick would be: what does an non-Indoctrinated Shepard do to win the fight on Earth when he gets back up? I have no idea. It seems like he'd still just lose.

I have other, crazier ideas about that (involving the Crucible and the original, ME1 "Prothean" beacon) but we'll save those for another day.
 
[quote name='Phokis']Well, I feel a little special now. I wasn't sure if anyone actually followed the links and listened to my podcast. However, the ending has an even neater bow tied than you think:


Spoilers:


At the point that Harbinger (the first Reaper as told from Leviathan, leader of the Reaper Invasion force on Earth from ME3 dialog, main Antagonist of ME2, and only named ME3 Antagonist that isn't just a puppet ie Cerberus) hits you with the beam and knocks you on your ass, you are dreaming, again. I say again because all of the previous dream sequences with the boy (who likely ever existed) were also Indoctrination dreams.

The point is that the final decision is: Control/Ally with the Reapers, Join/Ally with the Reapers, or Do anything to Destroy the Reapers. None of these outcomes actually happens, they are all just in Shepard's mind. The Star Child (likely Harbinger) says "Similar methods have been tried in the past, but they have always failed." "(this) is something that cannot be forced."

You are really just picking: Accept the Reapers vs. Don't Ally with Repears. Loosely, the Illusive Man picked Control, while Saren picked Synthesis, as their logic when allying with the Reapers.

So, the actual 3 endings of ME3 all end with Shepard on the ground at the foot of the beam, with Harbinger still standing over him attempting to take his mind, just like he says he is going to throughout ME2 and specifically at the end of ME2's Arrival DLC. Then Shepard stands up. If you picked Blue or Green and he gets up with Illusive Man/Saren/Husk eyes (which he gets in the cinematics for those endings right before dissolving, watch the eyes), pick Red and he just gets up.

That's where we're at: the Reapers are still here, everything is still under attack, and we're all going to die. It's a pretty dark ending, but that's to be expected given the trend. Think back to ME1, where most enemies were clean, shiny robots; to ME2 where they were Indoctrinated Prothean husks/Collectors, to the end of ME2 where you have corpse piles and human sacrifice to birth a new god, to ME3's abominations (either the Reaper forces' monsters, or the mutilated Cerberus faces hidden under masks). The dark horrors/gods have arrived from dark space and are killing everything and everyone. This isn't Hellboy or Lovecraft where we are trying to stop the portal from opening; the portal has opened and they've been here for a month or two, wiping out worlds. If it's never addressed in any post-ME3 content, the logical assumption is we lose this cycle.

If the endings actually did happen, why not spend 3 seconds showing Harbinger dying? Why "assume" his defeat when he is the primary antagonist of ME2 and personally responsible for leading the Earth forces and killing everyone there, too?

ME4 could easily address and wrap all the storlyines together again. For example: the Geth, either they get decimated by the Quarians and hate you, or you gave them Reaper code and they get decimated during the final fight. Just being near dead Reaper pieces is enough to Indoctrinate, so either way, the Geth are likely bad guys in any post-ME3 game. Quarians can similarly be handled (lots of casualties but few survivors during Geth fight, or during final fight). The Krogans: cure only worked for a bit but mutates again, giving them the same problem as before, as Mordin explained it can do in ME2. Etc, etc. A direct sequel, still starring Shepard or someone else, is certainly possible.

ME2 also had the "Dead-end" ending where Shepard dies, forcing players to play the end a certain way in order to have an importable game into ME3. The "Suicide mission" and this possibility were actually huge, hyped pre-release features for ME2. Bioware could easily force people to pick Destroy or not have an importable game, though given the numbers of people who picked the other endings and violently reject the possibility of the Indoctrination Theory, they should be rethinking this idea. The backlash would be huge. I don't think they predicted that people would be so loyal to their endings, and that perhaps brain washing the player was not the best idea.

The trick would be: what does an non-Indoctrinated Shepard do to win the fight on Earth when he gets back up? I have no idea. It seems like he'd still just lose.

I have other, crazier ideas about that (involving the Crucible and the original, ME1 "Prothean" beacon) but we'll save those for another day.
[/QUOTE]

You continue to hold the line I see. Go back 200 pages of posts, as
The Indoctrination Theory
is heavily discussed for weeks and months leading up to the extended cut ending.

I've given up on that. The
rejection
ending did that for me.

Like I mentioned, it feels like that was spit back by Bioware. The rejection ending is Shepard saying no. I won't listen to your lies, and so they show that everyone dies.

I'll save any long rant, I went on at length about these topics before and I hate to annoy anyone with re-runs. But I was very into Indoctrination, Shep's eyes, what the original ending cuts alluded to, etc. But with the Extended Cut endings I think they killed that. Plus it's been so long. If you waited one year to release a true ending via DLC or until a Mass Effect 4? Sorry, but that's a horrible business decision. This story was sold as a trilogy from the start, and it's said over and over since the ME1 documentaries. It's too big a cash cow to lose, so they will decide what to do in the universe next. But ME3 was the end of Shepard's story. So he/she isn't coming back. Unless they decide to take that back....which wouldn't be a first for them. It's been well documented that Casey Hudson said you couldn't have an ending A, B or C type thing at the end of ME3.

To compound spoilers and not ruin it.....AC3 does something kinda similar. Ends the story you've been chasing since the first game, ends Desmond's part, BUT it sets up future content. Me3 was sold in all endings and paths as the end. If you sat there, and told people who played through all the games or even jumped in at ME3 that their $60 to $80 day one purchase had no real ending? F UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU. How much worse an example of greed could you get?

I don't buy Control/Synthesis being "bad endings" ala ME2. You had to actively work to get that kill all ending in ME2. In ME3, if you take the same approach and your EMS is low, the Earth gets destroyed - Crew dead - Shep dead. In fact, at the lowest EMS score possible, Destroy is the ONLY option available. Yes, I agree that Shepard only surviving in high EMS was supposed to have some significance, but again that damages one of those things. Either my choices as a Paragon Shep doesn't matter and I had to sacrifice a friend/team-mate and an entire race I just worked my ass off to save......or none of this was real and ME3 was the video game of "it was all a dream" TV trope. Which would be disgustingly horrible. Casey Hudson took lead on the ending stuff, it's documented in the "Final Days of Mass Effect 3" they had a board that said "lots of speculation from everyone!". Which is what is accomplished. I went on in length about each ending and how it could or could not work. The artsy side of Casey is satisfied. But my game had no satisfying ending....and I am the consumer. Which means I stopped buying DLC on day 1, and I'll avoid games made by them in the future until they are bargain priced.

Ugh, I wrote much more than I wanted and at work to boot. We will continue this discussion in the future good sir.
 
It is what it is, but... I'm still not sure why people find it so impossible to believe that the writers simply screwed up. They tried to do something bold and a little avant garde, and just misjudged whether fans would like it. It happens all the time, to writers, musicians, filmmakers-- even to talented people with good track records.
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']It is what it is, but... I'm still not sure why people find it so impossible to believe that the writers simply screwed up. They tried to do something bold and a little avant garde, and just misjudged whether fans would like it. It happens all the time, to writers, musicians, filmmakers-- even to talented people with good track records.[/QUOTE]

Certainly, even as a large possibility. But I'd lean to the other explanations as more probable. It's not that either explanation is impossible or even unlikely, it's just a matter of which you'd bet on.

But speaking of track records, Spoiler of general bioware trend of their past game endings and of ME3 ending:

Every Bioware game has had a twist (except maybe Dragon Age 1/2, which I haven't had a chance to play yet.

ME1 revealed that Saren wasn't the bad guy, but just a puppet.
ME2 revealed that the Reapers weren't robots, but Organic/Synthetic hybrids (synthesis). Also, the fate of the Collector's (and Harbinger wasn't a Collector General, but a Reaper).
ME3 has... nothing. No real twist or anything.

Given the stories of Baldur's Gate 1,2,2exp, Kotor 1 (and throw in 2), Jade Empire, and ME 1 and 2, I wouldn't put it past Bioware to put a twist into ME3.
 
Finished the Omega DLC Saturday, and replayed the end game sequence to see the extended ending for the first time yesterday. Went with the synthesis option this time, had done destroy the first time.

I thought the ending was fine and much better now that the extended cut fleshes out what your decision led to in more detail.
 
[quote name='Phokis']Certainly, even as a large possibility. But I'd lean to the other explanations as more probable.[/QUOTE]

So... You're still waiting for the press release or DLC or whatever that will confirm the truth that the ending wasn't real? The game has been out for 10 months now and it's still yet to be resolved? That strikes you as probable?
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']So... You're still waiting for the press release or DLC or whatever that will confirm the truth that the ending wasn't real? The game has been out for 10 months now and it's still yet to be resolved? That strikes you as probable?[/QUOTE]Some people do like waiting things out to the bitter end.
 
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