Mass Effect 3 Discussion Thread

Double fine patched for Trenched which included extra equipment, hats, and survival mode. I consider that free DLC. It's all on the developer's relation w/MS probably + whatever they do behind the scenes. As for EA to give free DLC on MS? I think MS would want to milk them because they can and EA can afford to be milked.
 
[quote name='Salamando3000']Would Microsoft even allow the DLC to be free? I remember the Left 4 Dead DLC costing points whereas the PC version got the DLC for free. Supposedly Valve wanted it to be free, but Microsoft said no.[/QUOTE]

Valve actually did get Microsoft to release the first L4D DLC for free, but that's it. Even then they met heavy resistance trying to make it happen and all DLC from then on HAD to be priced accordingly. Hell... I'm still surprised M$ allowed them to do again for Portal 2 especially considering the size of it (1 - 2 gig I think).

If true, I hope it doesn't set a precedent that gamers think it's okay to release a game with some parts getting rushed in order to meet a release date and then patch in true endings or whatever later.
Click to expand...
Didn't Square Enix already help guide the industry down such a shady path by deliberately cliffhangering XIII-2 with plans to release ending DLC in the future?
 
[quote name='Salamando3000']"the leak" angle sounds kind of fishy to me. If the leak included info about other endings, you'd think it would pop up in any one of the many ending rants seen elsewhere. If then the leak didn't contain the endings, why change them? Unless, of course, a number of other areas had to be changed rendering them inaccurate or no longer usable.[/QUOTE]
AFAIK the only difference in the original leak was
the reason that the kid gives for starting the cycle: stopping the spread of dark energy (or stopping dark energy from making suns burn out, or something), instead of stopping a technological singularity.

[quote name='Ink.So.Well.']Didn't Square Enix already help guide the industry down such a shady path by deliberately cliffhangering XIII-2 with plans to release ending DLC in the future?[/QUOTE]
Ending DLC is only a rumor at this point. It could just as easily be a tease for Final Fantasy XIII-3. Time will tell.
 
[quote name='Salamando3000']Would Microsoft even allow the DLC to be free? I remember the Left 4 Dead DLC costing points whereas the PC version got the DLC for free. Supposedly Valve wanted it to be free, but Microsoft said no.
[/QUOTE]

Mass Effect 2 had free DLC from the Cerberus Network. They lack that delivery vehicle in ME3 however. Maybe tied to the online pass that came in the game?

For the record that rumor is too mind blowingly awesome for me to take seriously.
 
The online pass opens up the goodies on the collector's edition content which included in game material, so I think they could do something like this through there as well.

I'm torn right now in thinking if Bioware is just attempting to defuse things a bit and hope everything blows over or if they realized they totally failed at their biggest moment or if they stupidly meant to do this all the time for DLC. I don't know which is worse. None of them are good.
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']AFAIK the only difference in the original leak was
the reason that the kid gives for starting the cycle: stopping the spread of dark energy (or stopping dark energy from making suns burn out, or something), instead of stopping a technological singularity.
[/QUOTE]

I'm familiar with that alt ending...
It went something along the lines of "Dark Energy will eventually doom the universe, so reapers harvest species every cycle to turn them into a sort of organic computer to help solve the issue." Something about how they believed the collective creative intelligence of a vast number of different species would be more effective than just one species or even an AI.

Kinda like it more than the ending we got...at least then it would explain why the reapers were making a Human reaper and needed melted humans to make it, while also incorporating the story thread set up in Tali's recruitment mission. Makes for a good end-game choice as well - allow the reapers to harvest humanity and potentially save the universe, or destroy them and their work in order to attempt to fix the problem yourselves.

[quote name='Ryuukishi']Ending DLC is only a rumor at this point. It could just as easily be a tease for Final Fantasy XIII-3. Time will tell.[/QUOTE]

At least FF13-3 had a "to be continued" screen. I don't know if it's better or worse to release a game and admit there's more coming in DLC form or to release a game with a "broken" ending that DLC fixes.

[quote name='Lord_Kefka']Mass Effect 2 had free DLC from the Cerberus Network. They lack that delivery vehicle in ME3 however. Maybe tied to the online pass that came in the game?[/QUOTE]

Possible. Would have to suck for anyone who bought the game used though. I can already see sensationalist headlines across the interwebs going "Want the true ending to ME3? Hope you bought it new!"
 
You can buy the online pass if you buy used. Just like you could buy the Cerberus Network access if you bought ME2 used. So they wouldn't be locked out of it, they just wouldn't get the DLC for free.
 
[quote name='Salamando3000']I'm familiar with that alt ending...
It went something along the lines of "Dark Energy will eventually doom the universe, so reapers harvest species every cycle to turn them into a sort of organic computer to help solve the issue." Something about how they believed the collective creative intelligence of a vast number of different species would be more effective than just one species or even an AI.

Kinda like it more than the ending we got...at least then it would explain why the reapers were making a Human reaper and needed melted humans to make it, while also incorporating the story thread set up in Tali's recruitment mission. Makes for a good end-game choice as well - allow the reapers to harvest humanity and potentially save the universe, or destroy them and their work in order to attempt to fix the problem yourselves.
[/quote]

Too hard of a pill for me to swallow though. With attempts to emulate abstract thinking like fozzy logic, genetic algorithms, neural networks and so on, I have a hard time believing some new organic species is going to introduce something that couldn't be solved by the existing organics and very powerful quantum computers and so on. At least with this ending the crux of the matter is an issue with human nature, and it looks inward, rather than an issue with dark energy, which is an external, somewhat abstract enemy. I suppose you could really play on the fallibility of the reapers on that point, but I just don't think it's as strong a concept.
 
Yeah, I think
the technological singularity idea is better, at least it's in line with issues that have been present throughout the series with the quarians vs. geth and EDI and everything. Of course, it does highlight the idiocy of Shepard just accepting the kid's conclusions without bringing up his own experiences with organics and synthetics working together.

The dark energy thing was only brought up once in Tali's recruitment mission in ME2 (though I'm sure it would have been further examined in ME3 had they settled on that idea).

In any case, the Reapers' motivation is about .001% of what's questionable about the ending. :p
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']Yeah, I think
the technological singularity idea is better, at least it's in line with issues that have been present throughout the series with the quarians vs. geth and EDI and everything. Of course, it does highlight the idiocy of Shepard just accepting the kid's conclusions without bringing up his own experiences with organics and synthetics working together.

The dark energy thing was only brought up once in Tali's recruitment mission in ME2 (though I'm sure it would have been further examined in ME3 had they settled on that idea).

In any case, the Reapers' motivation is about .001% of what's questionable about the ending. :p
[/QUOTE]

Definitely agree it follows on of the major thematic elements of the game, but it still made for a crappy origin story. Couldn't help but think that the "logic" for their existence sounded like something a bad super-villain would put into action...Synthetics caused some trouble in his time, so instead of building machines to constantly survey the universe and warn organics against building self-aware AI's or just destroying any self-aware AI's that cropped up, he builds something to regularly wipe out any space-faring race.

And it still didn't really touch on why the Reapers really felt it necessary to harvest one race per cycle to put in a new reaper. Stopping that harvesting was the main plotline of ME2. As is, I kind of feel like the sidequests of ME2 were more important than the Collectors' story, since it made us care about the characters when they popped up in ME3 that much more.
 
OMG LMAO! I think I'm gonna lose it. I can't breathe... holy shit. Quote and video of the frickin' month. I'm definitely forwarding that shit asap. Dude... just the syncing of the Reaper sound at the moment of his death. This is a damn masterpiece.
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']
Marauder Shields

Best comment: "He tried to save us from the endings"
[/QUOTE]

You know, the crap factor of the "endings" has had me completely overlooking the obvious, which that video finally reminded me of: the last enemy you fight in this great series is canon fodder. Not Harbinger. Not the Illusive Man. Not God. A nameless enemy you've killed hundreds of already. fuck you Bioware...
 
[quote name='Salamando3000']
Definitely agree it follows on of the major thematic elements of the game, but it still made for a crappy origin story. Couldn't help but think that the "logic" for their existence sounded like something a bad super-villain would put into action...Synthetics caused some trouble in his time, so instead of building machines to constantly survey the universe and warn organics against building self-aware AI's or just destroying any self-aware AI's that cropped up, he builds something to regularly wipe out any space-faring race.

And it still didn't really touch on why the Reapers really felt it necessary to harvest one race per cycle to put in a new reaper. Stopping that harvesting was the main plotline of ME2. As is, I kind of feel like the sidequests of ME2 were more important than the Collectors' story, since it made us care about the characters when they popped up in ME3 that much more.
[/QUOTE]

I think it has to come from a corrupted point of view. Either one of the last organics used the Reapers as a last ditch effort to preserve themselves against synthetics in an extremely cynical manner, or their civilization became complacent and bored and decided to fuse with synthetics to ensure their mortality.

The idea that you honor the intelligent species of the galaxy by preserving them in reaper form is definitely a corrupted point of view, and would seem to harken back to the old idea that warriors consuming their enemies allowed them to absorb their powers.

If they simply tried to play galactic police, eventually the organics and/or synthetics they create would be aware of their presence and grow to a power great enough to threaten them, inevitably seeing them as a threat (the reapers themselves said the wars were inevitable).

The reaper creators' myopic point of view was that coexistence was impossible and would inevitably lead to no more organics. Thus, instituting a policy of partial eradication, organics are perpetually allowed to exist.

Sure, you could take the peace with the geth to mean that the reapers are fundamentally wrong, but if you get into a situation where competition for resources arises, those alliances can fade away.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']
You know, the crap factor of the "endings" has had me completely overlooking the obvious, which that video finally reminded me of: the last enemy you fight in this great series is canon fodder. Not Harbinger. Not the Illusive Man. Not God. A nameless enemy you've killed hundreds of already. fuck you Bioware...
[/QUOTE]

His name was Marauder Shields.

Seriously though, he is lethal on insanity
 
[quote name='gotdott']
His name was Marauder Shields.

Seriously though, he is lethal on insanity
[/QUOTE]

Um...as was clearly pointed out in the comments section of the video, his TRUE name is Marauder Health...duh...you only learn the truth, though, after you hit his critical point for massive damage...
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']
Um...as was clearly pointed out in the comments section of the video, his TRUE name is Marauder Health...duh...you only learn the truth, though, after you hit his critical point for massive damage...
[/QUOTE]

If you've been following the whole thing, his name WAS Marauder Shields, and IS Marauder Health :D but anyway, it takes 7-8 hits on insanity so may your aim stay true
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']
You know, the crap factor of the "endings" has had me completely overlooking the obvious, which that video finally reminded me of: the last enemy you fight in this great series is canon fodder. Not Harbinger. Not the Illusive Man. Not God. A nameless enemy you've killed hundreds of already. fuck you Bioware...
[/QUOTE]
Eh. Mass Effect 2 ended with a giant boss fight and everyone mocked it. You do kind of have a final showdown against the Illusive Man, it's just a conversation fight rather than a gunfight.

It does feel wrong that Harbinger's presence is barely felt in the game given how prominent he was in ME2. I think Anderson drops his name once and that's it. But I guess the Collectors were his "voice" and without them he's just another Reaper.
 
Pretty hard to f*cking aim though with that ridiculous sway. God... I hated that part of the game more than the Grissom Academy Atrium fight on Insanity and now that I know where to camp that'll be a cake walk for me.

Also... I'm almost positive the Reaper responsible for your near death experience on the way Sucktastic Endingville WAS Harbinger. He even had nerve to fly away like a BOSS afterward.
 
[quote name='Ink.So.Well.']
Pretty hard to fucking aim though with that ridiculous sway. God... I hated that part of the game more than the Grissom Academy Atrium fight on Insanity and now that I know where to camp that'll be a cake walk for me.

Also... I'm almost positive the Reaper responsible for your near death experience on the way Sucktastic Endingville WAS Harbinger.
[/QUOTE]

And where would that be, for future reference...
 
[quote name='gotdott']
If you've been following the whole thing, his name WAS Marauder Shields, and IS Marauder Health :D but anyway, it takes 7-8 hits on insanity so may your aim stay true
[/QUOTE]

mind = blown...
 
[quote name='Ink.So.Well.']
Pretty hard to f*cking aim though with that ridiculous sway. God... I hated that part of the game more than the Grissom Academy Atrium fight on Insanity and now that I know where to camp that'll be a cake walk for me.

Also... I'm almost positive the Reaper responsible for your near death experience on the way Sucktastic Endingville WAS Harbinger. He even had nerve to fly away like a BOSS afterward.
[/QUOTE]

Have you beat it on insanity yet? I felt like if I approached from the right and aimed just to the left of the wall Marauder Shields comes out from, it was a lot easier
 
That atrium fight was pretty darn hectic on Hardcore, must be rough on Insanity. Especially since there's like three waves of guys with no checkpoints in between. At least the level itself is optional.

As silly as the whole
"they made it crappy on purpose to surprise us later" theory was, it's still depressing to get final confirmation that yes, they purposely ended it this way to maximize speculation and debate, and yes, they really thought it was cool and people would like it.
 
[quote name='Anexanhume']And where would that be, for future reference...[/QUOTE]

As soon as the doors open ignore the weakened Atlas and head STRAIGHT for the shield generator up the ramp to your right. DO NOT DESTROY THE SHIELD PYLON OR GENERATOR. Pitch a tent, abuse the free shielding, watch out for grenades and the side ramp in front of you, and enjoy the free victory. Camping right there forces future reinforcements (usually a mix of Centurions and Engineers) to spawn below you at the mercy of your squadmates and Warp/Pull spam from Jack's students. It also provides solid cover from turrets and you'll also have a clear field of vision for anything trying to sneak up on you. Don't forget to abuse the students by pressing up on the d-pad while targeting. It's one of the few ways to guarantee they'll actually hit something worthwhile.

Make sure you check the door on your right periodically for the Guardian trio so you don't get smacked to death. Once you've thinned out the herd a bit you can safely destroy the shield pylon + generator BELOW you and start digging into the circle jerk of Engineers who've probably been repairing turrets and the Atlas the whole time. Always destroy the pylon first otherwise the Engineers will repair the generator. Watch out for the initial turret conveniently nestled in between them.

DO NOT DESTROY YOUR SHIELD PYLON + GENERATOR.

I can't stress this enough. Why? Because after you've began the second half of the battle you can STILL take advantage of it by camping on the other side of the door. The shield regen beam actually PHASES through it. Simply make a quick exit for the pathway closest to you, head up, hug the door till you've got the right angle to trigger it and dig in once more. You may need to juke a few grenades here or there, but you should be golden. JUST MAKE SURE YOU CREEP OUT FOR ANY SURPRISE TURRETS ENCAMPMENTS FIRST. Take it slow. Engineers love to place them near the door you'll use to move on.

Easy street.

And yes... I have beaten it on Insanity twice now (1st as an Adept and now as a Soldier). Insanity is the only way I can play this game since ME2 and can't imagine touching it on other difficulty without falling asleep otherwise.
Same thing for our beloved Mr. Shields, but that took a handful of reloads before I got used to the weapon sway. Your only options on Insanity are headshots or perfect accuracy. If you miss once he'll end you every time. Took about 5 - 10 shots to the chest to walk away unscathed because the fourth/fifth one usually staggers him somehow. I never tried approaching from right though as I assumed the game wouldn't let me.
 
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[quote name='100xp']yeah the reactor room and the long hallways are great, plus the nade launcher seems to make good use of the close quarters. took a while before i realized soldier's AR auto reloads your wpn without you having to manually reload it...nifty trick. something to remember for anyone who didn't know.

let me know if you're going to do some cerberus gold runs, I'd like to get a spectre pack after 1 run vs 2.5 on silver...plus I still need the achievement to do gold on every map, I just don't recall which ones I haven't completed them on yet.[/QUOTE]

We usually do a few starting around 11 PM EST so feel free to hop into the party and see if we are setting one up/have room. What I love is that most of the people I have been playing with are randoms that I met towards the end of the demo and have been playing with ever since because after the game released finding a room with quality players that have mics is near impossible haha.

Biotic explosions are magical though, especially when the aoe is applied in that narrow reactor room ;)

[quote name='Freemason']What about a Turian Sentinel running full powers and debuffs? i hit 76k points in my best game yet last night in Bronze, but with having warp and overload i would think that those would be awesome with biotic/tech explosions with the other classes as well. i'm about to hit 20 with him and would love to step up my game.



I need my cheivement too so would love to roll on these as well.[/QUOTE]

Send me a request if you want
 
[quote name='gotdott']We usually do a few starting around 11 PM EST so feel free to hop into the party and see if we are setting one up/have room. What I love is that most of the people I have been playing with are randoms that I met towards the end of the demo and have been playing with ever since because after the game released finding a room with quality players that have mics is near impossible haha.

Biotic explosions are magical though, especially when the aoe is applied in that narrow reactor room ;)



Send me a request if you want[/QUOTE]

What is the XBL Name? i got a few invites earlier but I was mid game and don't know user names unless tagged to your forum name. I am so not going above Bronze for randoms, played two Silvers, first one we made it to wave 10, got killed.. no equipment or gels were used by anyone but me. 2nd game vs Geth, 2 down in wave one, all 3 in wave 2 i solod the last half with the Krogan Sentinel in Rage mode Geth Shotty with +melee bayonet. 3rd round i used two rockets because theyd corner themselves and just wit to die... 4th round we all died. Highest score on my side was 29450 with me on wave 4, next one down was 6780....

yikes. Biotic Explosions though are indeed OMG awesome. one warps, i throw.. BOOM, i warp, he throws, BOOM lol it was awesome. Is the Bubble you can spec into on the Asari worth it? does ti work like a multiple person trap you set in a location ala Singularity?

So far i like the Warp Throw combo on the human but love the lockdown on stasis... perhaps the Asari Vanguard for slamming off biotic explosions and still have Stasis... i just dunno!
 
[quote name='Freemason']What is the XBL Name? i got a few invites earlier but I was mid game and don't know user names unless tagged to your forum name. I am so not going above Bronze for randoms, played two Silvers, first one we made it to wave 10, got killed.. no equipment or gels were used by anyone but me. 2nd game vs Geth, 2 down in wave one, all 3 in wave 2 i solod the last half with the Krogan Sentinel in Rage mode Geth Shotty with +melee bayonet. 3rd round i used two rockets because theyd corner themselves and just wit to die... 4th round we all died. Highest score on my side was 29450 with me on wave 4, next one down was 6780....

yikes. Biotic Explosions though are indeed OMG awesome. one warps, i throw.. BOOM, i warp, he throws, BOOM lol it was awesome. Is the Bubble you can spec into on the Asari worth it? does ti work like a multiple person trap you set in a location ala Singularity?

So far i like the Warp Throw combo on the human but love the lockdown on stasis... perhaps the Asari Vanguard for slamming off biotic explosions and still have Stasis... i just dunno![/QUOTE]

I loved Singularity and that's exactly what stasis bubble reminded me of. It's also exactly how it works. On gold you will have double digits of phantoms coming at you so it's better to be able to trap several at a time. Having a vanguard on our team allows a combo with nova if things get too hectic up close. It also has plenty of other uses, like causing guardians to drop their shields and insta-killing all of the swarmers that ravagers release when they pop their sacks. Warp/throw combo and Stasis is what makes the Asari Adept, imo, one of the most flexible support characters in the game since she can engage offensively over a long distance and defensively up close. I do go down easily though, since I don't have fitness maxed out.

gt is same as CAG name
 
Some more explanation on what rules the ending breaks, consequently causing it to suffer:

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9994083

1- Major breaking of the monomyth structure.


The Mass Effect universe is so tightly woven into Campbell’s monomyth... it’s quite a surprise that they let go of it. In our case, the writers have cut out the final step of the hero’s journey: the well-known return with the elixir, as theorized by Campbell in The Hero with a Thousand Faces.


The elixir is a catalyst by which change arrives in the hero’s world. Simply put, this is where you get to witness the changes the hero brought to his world. Certain stories do without it, but in a rethorical - almost satirical - sense. Without that last step, the journey is incomplete, henceforth pointless. And that is a major downer.


http://shannaswendson.blogspot.com/2011/02/heros-journey-return-with-elixir.html


2- Tragic hero / epic hero dichotomy


Ever read Homer? Achilles is the archetype of the tragic hero. Odysseus that of the epic hero. Hero types aren’t interchangeable, for their nature reflects the world they live in.


Shepard is a classic hero who gets a tragic ending. And that is wrong in many ways. The tragic hero must be build from the ground to fulfill his destiny. He always fails, but in failing, he proves a point to the world he inhabits. The fate of Romeo and Juliet, for example, illustrates the absurdity of their family’s vendetta.


Can you imagine Indiana Jones failing to get the Grail? Neither do I. That’s because he is an epic hero. Epic heroes fail all the way except in the end. The reverse is often true for the tragic hero.


Last but not least, that indoctrination theory of yours - if I got it correctly - would be an actual deus ex machina. A plot device that solves a bad ending in a contrived and forceful manner. They’re taboo since Aristotle. No writer would dare pull that nowadays.”

- Is the Catalyst a Deus Ex Machina?

 The Catalyst does not resolve anything. It's a complication when it should be a resolution. Therefore I do not interpret it as a deus ex machina.
 
Wow.
pjomldc6.jpg
 
So Chris Preistly (bioware community manager) just shut off posting to the ME3 spoilers forum because people were posting content from and complaining about the "final hours of mass effect 3" ipad app from Geoff Keighly that they didn't make.

[quote name='Ryuukishi']
Deleted scene: Garrus and Liara killed in beam run

Originally it was not just heavily implied that your squad died, it was actually shown. Obviously removed so they could tack on that lame Normandy survivors scene at the end instead.
[/QUOTE]

If that were the case, I'd bring Vega twice for the final mission.
 
[quote name='Ink.So.Well.']Wow.
pjomldc6.jpg
[/QUOTE]

Lol. Honestly it has become a dead horse at this point, but God Bless gamers and our ability to put on some big ass boots and continue to kick. What will happen will happen, hopefully it all works out in our favor. This was good though, i laughed. At least the fanbase is passionate about it and i think the continued CONSTRUCTIVE communications will help bring about changes, if not, we will have to live with it or risk facing the lurking wrath of Maurader Shields... health... Whatever :)
 
[quote name='Anexanhume']So Chris Preistly (bioware community manager) just shut off posting to the ME3 spoilers forum because people were posting content from and complaining about the "final hours of mass effect 3" ipad app from Geoff Keighly that they didn't make.



If that were the case, I'd bring Vega twice for the final mission.
[/QUOTE]

Oh Snap lol.. I probably would have too.
 
[quote name='Freemason']Lol. Honestly it has become a dead horse at this point, but God Bless gamers and our ability to put on some big ass boots and continue to kick. What will happen will happen, hopefully it all works out in our favor. This was good though, i laughed. At least the fanbase is passionate about it and i think the continued CONSTRUCTIVE communications will help bring about changes, if not, we will have to live with it or risk facing the lurking wrath of Maurader Shields... health... Whatever :)[/QUOTE]

Look, I'm tired of this controversy. His name is now Maurader Shields. Health is his maiden name. Bioware does not shy away from gay relationships and marriages.
 
[quote name='Doomtime']
Doesn't this still happen if you have incredibly low EMS?
[/QUOTE]

Supposedly it's an impossible to achieve EMS in a normal, non-hacked playthrough.
 
Haha yeah playing asari adept or vanguard one on random silver reaper last night - guy says "what's that thing that stops the enemies so I can shoot them?" other guy - "I don't know but it's this chick here doing it." Geez and they were not total noobs - they had n7 rating in the upper 30s. Don't know why people like that get in silver - just hoping one or two will carry them through. We died on wave 10... I totally understand about all the hate for people not using equipment - I'll put on one or two power ups and have no problem using rockets or gel when necessary but I've seen a bunch never use anything. I've also run in to way too many hardcore campers - they just set up next to an ammo dump and never move - not even on the specific mission waves.
 
good god I just watched the alernate versions of
betraying Mordin and sabotaging the Genophage, where Tali Kills Legion, Tali takes a dive, and where you shoot Ash/Kaidan... I thought my decisions were bad enough, with none of that happeing those were just gut wrenching.
I would have to get on anti depressants if I did any of those versions lol
 
[quote name='Anexanhume']Look, I'm tired of this controversy. His name is now Maurader Shields. Health is his maiden name. Bioware does not shy away from gay relationships and marriages.[/QUOTE]

LOL. So tempted to make a new avatar and sig in honor of Marauder "Health" Shields, but I'm too lazy to fire up photoshop and Bioshock Infinite is still my most anticipated game this year. I gotta represent. Plus a little eye candy after a post is always a good thing.
 
I never thought I'd be in a position to feel "meh" about future BioWare DLC and games... But the confusion and emptiness of that ending has started to color my perception of the whole game.

I really hope they release some kind of re-do... even if they continue to insist that their Artistic Experiment is the one true ending, and they just release some what-if scenarios based on fans wanting more options. Dragon Age Origins already had the Darkspawn DLC which was an alternate scenario that contradicted the game's canon, so it's been done before.
 
Another explanation of why the ending doesn't work (from a writer)

Eternalsteelfan wrote...

A. First, a few pet peeves. Tropes are very popular for making generalizations about parts of stories we dislike, but they have a tendency to be overused and misused.

The Crucible isn't a MacGuffin. The best and most common example of an actual MacGuffin is the briefcase in Pulp Fiction; we don't know what is in the briefcase and we don't know how or why it functions, but it's important because it motivates the characters and drives the plot. Basically, a MacGuffin is important only because it's important. The Crucible in Mass Effect 3 is an actual plot device (a MacGuffin is a very specific subset of this); we are told what it is and what it's function is right from the beginning and it's use in the climax is in line with this.

The Crucible isn't an example of deus ex machina. Again, we know all along that the Crucible's function is to stop the Reapers, it's introduced at the beginning of the story, it's importance is reinforced throughout, and it's function during the climax is in line with what is expected. An example of Mass Effect ending with deus ex machina would be: the Reapers win the battle of Earth and are seemingly unstoppable, suddenly, and with no previous justification, an even more advanced race emerges from deep space and destroys the Reapers, saving Earth. The difference is obvious; one is a clearly defined plot device, the other is a magical fix with no precedent in the story.

Being the only time I'm going to talk about tropes, and for humorous purposes only, here are some I find more accurate for the ending: the lack of resolution after all the setting-shifting events, especially the lack of clarity in regards to the future of the setting and it's characters (including the protagonist and in some cases the antagonist force) may be considered no ending, the Reaper-God-Child and unexpected side effects of the Crucible may be considered diabolus ex machina, and the sudden shift of themes from hope and fighting the impossible fight to that of true art is angsty can be seen as an example of a sudden downer ending. I'm certain there are more we can shoehorn as applicable, but this is as far as I'm willing to go into tropes.

I$want to iterate that I dislike how much we over analyze tropes and assign them as labels to similar and overgeneralized devices and themes. Stories are usually divergent enough from other stories that generalizing aspects of them with tropes rarely do them justice and are ambigous enough that what tropes a story actually uses are debatable. I only addressed the aforementioned devices of deus ex machina and MacGuffin because they are venerable and distinct enough that their usage in reference to Mass Effect 3 is clearly wrong. TL;DR: tropes are convenient but our time is better spent looking at the specifics of a given story.


B. The resolution of Mass Effect 3 falls short for many reasons. More than I'd care to get into, truth be told,$ so I'll try to punch on at least some of the major failings through the eyes of a screenwriter.


1. The ending feels jarring and out of place and there is little closure, this is a sympton of the ending failing to live up to what we come expect from the story. As I've previously said, "Mass Effect is a conventional story with conventional expectations". A conventional story, almost all stories, follow a pretty standard plotline: Introduction - Ascending Action - Climax - Descending Action - Resolution. In film we break it up into 3 acts, roughly: the first act is the introduction, the second act is the rising action and longest act of the story, and the third act is the climax and resolution.

Mass Effect 3 and the previous games follow this plotline both as individual stories and in the grand scheme of things as a trilogy (a trilogy is basically the three act structure writ large), that is until the final moments of 3. For reference, The battle for Earth is the climax of the series and the run across no man's land to the Citadel beam is the climax of the specific game; with this in mind, the Citadel sequence is the final part of the descending action and the resolution for both the game and series, the part where the antagonist is finally defeated, the themes and dramatic questions are answered, and the loose ends are tied. Or rather, it should be. After the defeat of the Illusive Man (the antagonist role is somewhat muddled and blurry towards the end of the story, more on that briefly), the protagonist has reached his goal, the defeat of the Reapers is at hand; conventionally, this is where the protagonist would succeed, the Crucible fire, and the Reapers destroyed. Instead, the story grows convoluted (once again, this is supposed to be the resolution) at the height of the scene by jarring us out of it with the bizarre, dreamlike sequence of Sheperd's ascent on the magic platform and the introduction of an ancient and seemingly god-like form who expounds the final choice between three options, all presented symbolically in appearance and action: one which mirrors a co-antagonist's desire which has been reinforced throughout as wrong and contradictory of the protagonist's; one which is downright bizarre and is almost completely outside the scope of the game's main themes save for being somewhat in line with the primary antagonistic forces' goal; and one which accurately mirrors the protagonist's goal from since the beginning. The results of these choices vary and are wide-reaching, creating a massive upheaval of the story world, while being unclear.$ All of the characters and the entire setting are left to an uncertain and sometimes confusing fate.

Just looking at what I've typed, it's apparent this is not a resolution. New information is introduced throughout the entire sequence rather than tying loose ends. New information shouldn't be introduced in a resolution unless it directly resolves something or is quickly resolved itself; definitively, it's the opposite of what a resolution is. In layman's terms, this is what makes us feel like there are more questions than answers.

The fate of the characters and the final destination they reach in the story are crucial to the resolution, especially on the scale of a trilogy. During the ascending action, right before the climax of the no man's land run, we are given a send off from all of the characters; this is both out of order for a conventional plotline (more fitting the descending action rather than ascending) and dimished by the implications of the ending. Ultimately, it is through the characters that we most directly identify with the story and find the meaning, the lack of resolution in this regard is especially unsatisfying.

The resolution is where the audience is supposed to find the tale's "ever after", be it happy or sad. Mass Effect 3 completely lacks any sense of "ever after".


2. Video games, like film, are a visual medium; the ending tells us what happens rather than shows us what happens. This is easy to overlook but very important. Visual mediums for story are all about what we see. Another cardinal sin of storytelling commited during the ending is the description of, and differences between, the options in the final choice are almost all conveyed through exposition. The cinematics themselves, what we actually see, are extremely similar and all the implications of the choice we make are conveyed through what the exposition had told us. This is very poor storytelling and worse still to be considered the resolution.


3. Ambiguity, lack of clarity, plot holes. [/b]Relating to the previous points, the ending is excessively ambiguous and unclear. With only unclear exposition before the choice and without sufficient data presented afterwards, many situations are unaccounted for and either lack clarity at best or appear as plot holes at worst. The crash landing of the Normandy is a clear example of this ambiguity, both in it's plausibility and implications for the fate of the crew.


4. Nothing is gained by breaking convention and attempting to make the ending enigmatic or profound. Assuming this was the writers' goal, this is another failing. Some believe, myself included, that the writers' tried to use the jarring impact of an unconventional, imperfect ending to hammer home a message or theme (presumably: pre-destination, the uncontrollable nature of fate, and the individual's limited ability to impact the world). This, however, comes at the cost of the story and the audience's pleasure, a cost that is far too high for the nature of storytelling.


5. The resurgence and emphasis on The Illusive Man during the resolution as well as the lack of interaction with the Reapers and, more specifically, Harbinger,$ detracts from the Reapers as the antagonist. A lot of people expected a "boss fight" of sorts or a closing discussion with Harbinger at the end. This is a perfectly understandable and legitimate expectation. During the climax, we are almost defeated by Harbinger, the avatar for the Reapers as antagonist, however, during the resolution, it is the indoctrinated Illusive Man that takes takes center stage. Though he unwittingly is an assisting force for the Reapers, he is not directly representative of them, merely their influence. TIM's role is more fitting that of an obstacle to be overcome during the rising action.

The prominance of The Illusive Man as the final foe to be overcome detracts from the overall threat and importance of the true antagonist, the Reapers.


These points were written as a stream of conscious, I'm sure there are plenty of things I've missed or didn't feel like going in depth about, but I$think those are some of the most important ones.


C. As I$was writing this I read the Final Hours thread containing comments from Mac Walters and Casey Hudson as well as Walters' scribbled notes for the ending. Honestly I was taken aback.

Judging the content Hudson cut based on his feel for "the moment", I'd say his feel for emotional beats and his judgement of what was expendable for story economy was atrocious. The first Mass Effect was inundated at times with exposition and had very poor economy, this ending, on the other hand, is something of an opposite with not nearly enough information.

Walters' notes scrawled across loose leaf disappointed me. The ideas are clearly not fleshed out at all, strictly drawing board material, the execution we see in game is indicative of that. " Lots of speculation from everyone" is somewhat repulsive, as if providing an unclear, poorly planned ending that leaves your audience unsatisfied and grasping at straws for answers is somehow good storytelling. It gives me the inclination that the ending really was just for publicity.

I hope it continues to backfire.

Anyway, I'm off. Any interest or questions or if you want to pick my brain about storytelling, we'll call this a work in progress.
Click to expand...


Tl;dr breaks existing conventions in story telling for the sake of being enigmatic at the cost of making no sense and providing no closure
 
[quote name='gotdott']if anyone wants to try some gold, ill probably be playing some in half an hour or so :)[/QUOTE]

we pwnd dem cerberus...even when it was raining phantoms. gg guys.

I like they at least give you 2 warnings before you promote an MP character.

Finally got a Widow sniper rifle and twice in a row no less II. Unlocked a Revenant AR as well, tried it w/the turian who spec'd for accuracy and stability...I think you need the stability mod for the AR for it to shoot with any accuracy at mid to long range. It has much potential otherwise.
 
[quote name='100xp']we pwnd dem cerberus...even when it was raining phantoms. gg guys.

I like they at least give you 2 warnings before you promote an MP character.

Finally got a Widow sniper rifle and twice in a row no less II. Unlocked a Revenant AR as well, tried it w/the turian who spec'd for accuracy and stability...I think you need the stability mod for the AR for it to shoot with any accuracy at mid to long range. It has much potential otherwise.[/QUOTE]

glad you enjoyed the sisterhood of the raining phantoms. n0w you can scoff at anyone who talks about handling it on silver heh

we'll get you through through the other maps once i stock up some more medigels for reapers.
 
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