Opinions on this game certainly vary! For me it's up there as one of my favorite games that I've played in a while, though I'm not comparing it to other Metroid games, so maybe that helps (not having played any, other then Metroid Prime Pinball ;^), and I don't play a lot of games in a year. Still, the truth is that most games I never seem to finish, but this one I've gotten to the credits of and I can't wait to get back to it and dive into the epilogue.
Metroid: Other M - The CAG Thread
- Thread starter KingBroly
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Lone_Prodigy
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I've gone back to Echoes, and while it's difficult to compare the two, a couple things I prefer in Other M:
-you know where the next save point/event is, plus they're pretty well distributed. In Prime and Echoes I often only have time to do one or two things, then high-tail it back to the save station
-in Other M, you get an update on what's going on every time you start
But the map system in Echoes >>> Other M's map
-you know where the next save point/event is, plus they're pretty well distributed. In Prime and Echoes I often only have time to do one or two things, then high-tail it back to the save station
-in Other M, you get an update on what's going on every time you start
But the map system in Echoes >>> Other M's map
KingBroly
CAGiversary!
I'd honestly take Metroid I's map over Other M's >_> It's too obtrusive and I can't get rid of it. But my burning hatred of Echoes will continue forever. I went to play Prime, and while superior, the fact that hints take forever to come up, so I'm lost and don't know where to go to get the Ice Beam in it -_-'
Bluelobstah, that stinks that you felt disappointed by it. I'm surprised you found the combat frustrating as it seemed pretty easy to me. I also hope you beat the Epilogue.
Bluelobstah, that stinks that you felt disappointed by it. I'm surprised you found the combat frustrating as it seemed pretty easy to me. I also hope you beat the Epilogue.
BlueLobstah
CAGiversary!
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I did beat the epilogue and it didn't really do too much for me.
The whole sideways/pointer transition deal felt rather clunky and never flowed very well for me. The fact that many areas of the game required you to switch back and forth frequently was a big major point of frustration for me. I feel it's a solid idea, but they clearly failed on the control scheme. I feel as if the Wiimote + Nunchuk would've been a much better fit here.
The above really contributed towards my combat concerns, along with the aforementioned concentrate ability. In general the combat was fairly easy except with regards to area-bosses/major bosses. It was a combination of poor game design and the control scheme, but I died a lot because I was fumbling with the controls and/or I had little to no idea what the hell I was supposed to do with several of them.
Overall my feelings are it's a flawed game with potential. From my expectations of Metroid, it's a disappointment.
The whole sideways/pointer transition deal felt rather clunky and never flowed very well for me. The fact that many areas of the game required you to switch back and forth frequently was a big major point of frustration for me. I feel it's a solid idea, but they clearly failed on the control scheme. I feel as if the Wiimote + Nunchuk would've been a much better fit here.
The above really contributed towards my combat concerns, along with the aforementioned concentrate ability. In general the combat was fairly easy except with regards to area-bosses/major bosses. It was a combination of poor game design and the control scheme, but I died a lot because I was fumbling with the controls and/or I had little to no idea what the hell I was supposed to do with several of them.
Overall my feelings are it's a flawed game with potential. From my expectations of Metroid, it's a disappointment.
KingBroly
CAGiversary!
Bosses in Other M are basically Dodge, Charge and Shoot. Missiles are for the most part useless except boss fights in certain situations when they're required. I never had problems with switching perspectives, but I know people did have issues with it. It's one of those Wii things I guess.
I didn't have any trouble switching perspectives. Worked quite well for me. Actually when I first started I didn't realize you had to hold in B to be able to look around more then just your immediate view. Actually I have no idea why it requires you to hold in B in order to look everywhere. Why does it have the locked view window when not holding in B? Maybe they tried it without that and it proved problematic? I don't know.
Also, I find it useful to shoot enemies with missiles from a distance. They definitely aren't useless.
Also, I find it useful to shoot enemies with missiles from a distance. They definitely aren't useless.
ViolentLee
CAGiversary!
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Just beat the game tonight (12 hours), and may or may not do the little "return" stuff. Surprised how low my completion percentage is, honestly. I tend to be pretty thorough.
Overall, it's a 7.5 for me. It was fun to get to be all powered up and screw attack to my heart's content. I also thought it did a good job blending 2D with 3D, and the combat was usually interesting. Nice graphics, too.
The game had major problems, though. I disliked the story immensely -- how important characters would just run away and how Samus couldn't do anything without the boss's help. Overall, Other M really made women look weak -- basically the opposite of its theme. I thought the targeting in 3rd person was terrible, and the map UI was lame (going south, but "up" depending on the map). I also was pretty pissed at the last boss. And finally, I missed informative scanning. Without it, the visor stuff was wasted.
Super Metroid is a top-3 game for me. Sad that its direct sequel and the long-awaited departure of first-person didn't meet expectations.
Overall, it's a 7.5 for me. It was fun to get to be all powered up and screw attack to my heart's content. I also thought it did a good job blending 2D with 3D, and the combat was usually interesting. Nice graphics, too.
The game had major problems, though. I disliked the story immensely -- how important characters would just run away and how Samus couldn't do anything without the boss's help. Overall, Other M really made women look weak -- basically the opposite of its theme. I thought the targeting in 3rd person was terrible, and the map UI was lame (going south, but "up" depending on the map). I also was pretty pissed at the last boss. And finally, I missed informative scanning. Without it, the visor stuff was wasted.
Super Metroid is a top-3 game for me. Sad that its direct sequel and the long-awaited departure of first-person didn't meet expectations.
ViolentLee
CAGiversary!
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I went back and beat the epilogue (85% item completion). I guess I'm glad I did it, to say I did. Neat to see a few more areas of the ship, and watch some more inane cutscenes.
I'm someone who loves cutscenes -- I've written/directed literally hours of them -- but some of these were just the weakest of sauce. I think a lot of it has to do with the narrative itself being poor.
I'm someone who loves cutscenes -- I've written/directed literally hours of them -- but some of these were just the weakest of sauce. I think a lot of it has to do with the narrative itself being poor.
I mean, returning for -- then hugging -- the dude's helmet?! Lame!
It's also amazing the Deleter was such a driving force in the story, then you don't ever really get a payoff/resolution. Reminds me of Saruman in the LOTR movies.
It's also amazing the Deleter was such a driving force in the story, then you don't ever really get a payoff/resolution. Reminds me of Saruman in the LOTR movies.
KingBroly
CAGiversary!
I thought that scene was really good actually. It's how a cutscene in Metroid should be done. Quiet, touching, mysterious and sorta creepy,
And yes, the writing/storytelling is really bad, but the story elements are interesting/good if you take them as just core concepts. They're also ambiguous enough to put together crazy theories like I've done. One of which I've just put together that seems to fit REALLY well because they're so ambiguous with everything.
then they go BOO-YAH, ESCAPE SEQUENCE in the Zero Suit!
And yes, the writing/storytelling is really bad, but the story elements are interesting/good if you take them as just core concepts. They're also ambiguous enough to put together crazy theories like I've done. One of which I've just put together that seems to fit REALLY well because they're so ambiguous with everything.
Lone_Prodigy
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Well, considering
Adam's helmet is all that's left of him, and the fact that he left it behind to save Samus must really resonate with Samus. Agree that the Deleter plot ended strangely.
KingBroly
CAGiversary!
I'm going to post my game theory about this right here in a big 'ol spoiler tag. It's a long, but interesting read.
If it does fit (and works) I think Nintendo could use it as an out if they wanted to explain Samus' emotions in Other M. Now, it doesn't change how bad the storytelling is, nor does it change the bad voice acting or script. It's just a theory and I'd like some feedback on this long, convoluted theory. Also, if this theory offends anyone, I apologize.
Let's start with Fusion. Other M is very similar in Fusion in terms of story and design. It's linear and its' layout is similar, and the game's plot is essentially 'Good guys are actually bad.' Heck, even the bosses are copy/paste somewhat. There are a couple of changes, but a big thing is the main conflict is between Samus and SA-X, a physical conflict between Samus and her old powers. At the end of the game, Sakamoto said that Samus got her 'physical composition' back, whatever that means. Going by this, it is my theory that Other M is about Samus' struggle with her emotions.
Let me put some facts out here first (Based on the information the game gave us):
- Samus left the GF after the incident which resulted in Ian dying
- Samus spared Baby Metroid's life
- Baby Metroid saved Samus' life
- MB "gained a soul" thanks to coming in contact with Metroids
Let's start with that last one. During the last cutscene, it's discussed how MB gained a soul and emotions and how the people rejected giving a robot emotions, so much to the point that they decided to reprogram MB. But MB fought back, and rebelled against the humans in a furious rage. This whole discussion strikes me as an analogy for Samus and the Baby Metroid and the series in general, meaning I think the Baby Metroid (either in life or death) awoke the dormant emotions of Samus' heart.
Dormant emotions? Her emotions have clearly been there the entire time you say. Not quite. I believe everything in the games until now have been correct about Samus. Her being emotionless for the most part, being one of those things. But why is she emotionless then? Well, the Ian scene is what caused her to become an independent hunter, correct? Well, what if this also caused her to suppress her emotions for this entire time? Now suppressing emotions, especially for a long time isn't particularly healthy, but it is what it is.
Up until now we've seen Samus as an emotionless/near-emotionless Bounty Hunter. When we think of emotionless heroes, we think 'hey, they've got complete control of their emotions, clearly.' But again, if my theory is to be believed (or stolen) then what we have here is a twist on that idea. She was still emotionless in previous games, but not because she had control, but instead because she buried those emotions deep down. It doesn't change what happened in previous games at all, just our perspective.
So let's get to the mess at hand. What caused these emotions to awake? My guess is the death of the Baby Metroid at the end of Super. Some might say it was the birth of said baby, but it seems far more important that it was the death scene than the birth scene. So now we get to Other M. In Other M she has a lot of emotions going on that we've never seen before, and she has reactions to situations that seem off-base. Fears, doubts, regrets, etc. all of which are coming to the surface in a negative light very fast and very often. Now we only get to see these emotions in physical form twice throughout the game, the two BIG scenes of controversy where she goes against everything we've known her for.
The Ridley scene. Now you might claim 'Ridley's dead for the first time' or PTSD because of what's been presented, but this is where my theory is more of an out, but it does fit with the whole 'she lost control of her emotional stability due to X' theory. In previous games, we get almost nothing from her emotionally. Here, she goes full blown catatonic requiring Anthony to save her. This is definitely out of character, but since her emotions are out of whack, she can't regain her composure in time before she gets taken advantage of.
Next, the Sector Zero scene. This one plays out exactly like the flashback scene, almost word for word. Samus regresses to that child-like state of wanting Adam to trust her, but again Adam says 'no, you can't die, I'll die instead.' She proceeds to bang on some glass and act really whiny, just like the flashback scene. This definitely seems like a big character regression, however, here is where I believe she regains control of her emotions. Adam gives her that "eye-of-the-storm clarity" as she puts it, and for the rest of the game, seems pretty calm, cool and collected. This is sorta like where Samus absorbs the SA-X in Fusion, albeit less sticky. By watching Adam march to his death, this allowed Samus to take her emotions and put them in their place. After all, she was calmer than she usually was.
So at the end of the day, my thinking is that Other M is Samus' transition from emotionless through negativity (death of a friend) to emotionless through positive reinforcement (clarity from a friend). She can now use her emotions naturally as she sees fit, but can still will them under her control without negative reprecussions. This is why in Fusion she has an angry outburst at the end, because she's genuinely ticked off, a natural emotion.
Now then, I'm not saying this is correct. I'm not saying it's how things are going to be, nor am I saying it's good. I'm just saying that I think it fits, and if Nintendo wanted to, could 100% use this line of thinking to get themselves out of this whole emotional predicament for her in Other M.
Any questions?
If it does fit (and works) I think Nintendo could use it as an out if they wanted to explain Samus' emotions in Other M. Now, it doesn't change how bad the storytelling is, nor does it change the bad voice acting or script. It's just a theory and I'd like some feedback on this long, convoluted theory. Also, if this theory offends anyone, I apologize.
Let's start with Fusion. Other M is very similar in Fusion in terms of story and design. It's linear and its' layout is similar, and the game's plot is essentially 'Good guys are actually bad.' Heck, even the bosses are copy/paste somewhat. There are a couple of changes, but a big thing is the main conflict is between Samus and SA-X, a physical conflict between Samus and her old powers. At the end of the game, Sakamoto said that Samus got her 'physical composition' back, whatever that means. Going by this, it is my theory that Other M is about Samus' struggle with her emotions.
Let me put some facts out here first (Based on the information the game gave us):
- Samus left the GF after the incident which resulted in Ian dying
- Samus spared Baby Metroid's life
- Baby Metroid saved Samus' life
- MB "gained a soul" thanks to coming in contact with Metroids
Let's start with that last one. During the last cutscene, it's discussed how MB gained a soul and emotions and how the people rejected giving a robot emotions, so much to the point that they decided to reprogram MB. But MB fought back, and rebelled against the humans in a furious rage. This whole discussion strikes me as an analogy for Samus and the Baby Metroid and the series in general, meaning I think the Baby Metroid (either in life or death) awoke the dormant emotions of Samus' heart.
Dormant emotions? Her emotions have clearly been there the entire time you say. Not quite. I believe everything in the games until now have been correct about Samus. Her being emotionless for the most part, being one of those things. But why is she emotionless then? Well, the Ian scene is what caused her to become an independent hunter, correct? Well, what if this also caused her to suppress her emotions for this entire time? Now suppressing emotions, especially for a long time isn't particularly healthy, but it is what it is.
Up until now we've seen Samus as an emotionless/near-emotionless Bounty Hunter. When we think of emotionless heroes, we think 'hey, they've got complete control of their emotions, clearly.' But again, if my theory is to be believed (or stolen) then what we have here is a twist on that idea. She was still emotionless in previous games, but not because she had control, but instead because she buried those emotions deep down. It doesn't change what happened in previous games at all, just our perspective.
So let's get to the mess at hand. What caused these emotions to awake? My guess is the death of the Baby Metroid at the end of Super. Some might say it was the birth of said baby, but it seems far more important that it was the death scene than the birth scene. So now we get to Other M. In Other M she has a lot of emotions going on that we've never seen before, and she has reactions to situations that seem off-base. Fears, doubts, regrets, etc. all of which are coming to the surface in a negative light very fast and very often. Now we only get to see these emotions in physical form twice throughout the game, the two BIG scenes of controversy where she goes against everything we've known her for.
The Ridley scene. Now you might claim 'Ridley's dead for the first time' or PTSD because of what's been presented, but this is where my theory is more of an out, but it does fit with the whole 'she lost control of her emotional stability due to X' theory. In previous games, we get almost nothing from her emotionally. Here, she goes full blown catatonic requiring Anthony to save her. This is definitely out of character, but since her emotions are out of whack, she can't regain her composure in time before she gets taken advantage of.
Next, the Sector Zero scene. This one plays out exactly like the flashback scene, almost word for word. Samus regresses to that child-like state of wanting Adam to trust her, but again Adam says 'no, you can't die, I'll die instead.' She proceeds to bang on some glass and act really whiny, just like the flashback scene. This definitely seems like a big character regression, however, here is where I believe she regains control of her emotions. Adam gives her that "eye-of-the-storm clarity" as she puts it, and for the rest of the game, seems pretty calm, cool and collected. This is sorta like where Samus absorbs the SA-X in Fusion, albeit less sticky. By watching Adam march to his death, this allowed Samus to take her emotions and put them in their place. After all, she was calmer than she usually was.
So at the end of the day, my thinking is that Other M is Samus' transition from emotionless through negativity (death of a friend) to emotionless through positive reinforcement (clarity from a friend). She can now use her emotions naturally as she sees fit, but can still will them under her control without negative reprecussions. This is why in Fusion she has an angry outburst at the end, because she's genuinely ticked off, a natural emotion.
Now then, I'm not saying this is correct. I'm not saying it's how things are going to be, nor am I saying it's good. I'm just saying that I think it fits, and if Nintendo wanted to, could 100% use this line of thinking to get themselves out of this whole emotional predicament for her in Other M.
Any questions?
B
Blackout
Guest
I'm a few rooms after beating
I have 20 total missiles. How many should I have at this point?
that large dinosaur thing with the glowing ball on his back. Sorry, don't know the name.
B
Blackout
Guest
[quote name='KingBroly']That's enough to beat the game with since you can refill them at any time. You can't get all the items until you beat the game anyways.[/QUOTE]
I think I'm going to try to get 100%, since I did it for the GBA games. How many items can you obtain up to the point of beating the game? Also, does the game give you a percentage during the game or only after you beat it?
In the Prime games, did enemies drop health/missiles like in the other Metroid games? I didn't play them extensively enough to remember.
I think I'm going to try to get 100%, since I did it for the GBA games. How many items can you obtain up to the point of beating the game? Also, does the game give you a percentage during the game or only after you beat it?
In the Prime games, did enemies drop health/missiles like in the other Metroid games? I didn't play them extensively enough to remember.
B
Blackout
Guest
OK cool. I think I'll just play straight through on my own, get what I can, and beat the game. I'll scoop everything else up with a guide if need be after I beat the game.
B
Blackout
Guest
I'm stupid. Sometimes I can't figure out the simplest things, like how to get a certain missile even if it's location is on the map. Trust me, I might need to reference a guide.
Wolfpup
CAGiversary!
Damn. I assume others in this thread have run into this...I'm not sure how far I am in the game...I think maybe over half way, but anyway I've been to sectors 1 > 3 > 2 > 3, and I just found out from an FAQ that...I'm stuck.
Apparently there's a glitch that if you go back and explore this one part, hours later you'll be stuck with this door that will not open.
So that sucks...going to sell it.
I'm mixed on it until I hit this. The story I really like, and the exploration works well. I hate the constant boss battles though, and don't like having to try to mix in first person missile shooting with everything else. So I'm kind of 50/50 on it, and there have been two boss battles I nearly gave up on. Thankfully at least it starts you out again right at the battle most times, but they need an easier mode...and I don't feel like constant boss battles are what Metroid is about. I'm thinking the original had basically THREE in the whole game, and this is more boss battles than anything else in the game...it's like at least one every five minutes I think.
BUT the exploration and story are really fun, so...mixed bag.
Except now I hit this game breaking bug.
Apparently there's a glitch that if you go back and explore this one part, hours later you'll be stuck with this door that will not open.
So that sucks...going to sell it.
I'm mixed on it until I hit this. The story I really like, and the exploration works well. I hate the constant boss battles though, and don't like having to try to mix in first person missile shooting with everything else. So I'm kind of 50/50 on it, and there have been two boss battles I nearly gave up on. Thankfully at least it starts you out again right at the battle most times, but they need an easier mode...and I don't feel like constant boss battles are what Metroid is about. I'm thinking the original had basically THREE in the whole game, and this is more boss battles than anything else in the game...it's like at least one every five minutes I think.
BUT the exploration and story are really fun, so...mixed bag.
Except now I hit this game breaking bug.
B
Blackout
Guest
Crap, where is that door? I remember walking into a room earlier in the game, having a cutscene, and then leaving the room. Once I left, the door locked. I haven't been able to get back in since.
Wolfpup
CAGiversary!
It's hard to describe, but this FAQ is where I first found out about it:
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/file/metroid_other_m_e.txt
If you search for "glitches" it takes you right to where it describes the problem.
I was actually enjoying it quite a bit until that point!
Started Epic Mickey now, which...so far seem needlessly dark, slightly iffy on the controls, and...oh well, at least I like platformers.
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/file/metroid_other_m_e.txt
If you search for "glitches" it takes you right to where it describes the problem.
I was actually enjoying it quite a bit until that point!
Started Epic Mickey now, which...so far seem needlessly dark, slightly iffy on the controls, and...oh well, at least I like platformers.
Wolfpup
CAGiversary!
Wow...huh...I could actually send in my save file to get a corrected save file or something, I guess! :lol:
http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/systems/wii/en_na/ts/metroid-other-m.jsp
Well...I guess it's SOMETHING...they're at least acknowledging it. Actually got a response back from CS that seemed to be from a human, and explicitly talked about and acknowledged the problem, so that's cool.
For a variety of reasons though I don't think I'm going to do this.
Geez...this makes me wonder, this is the THIRD game in recent years that I've been unable to finished because of a game breaking bug, and all three have been on Nintendo platforms.
Metroid: Other M
Magical Starsign
Sigma Star Story (I think that's the name).
http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/systems/wii/en_na/ts/metroid-other-m.jsp
Well...I guess it's SOMETHING...they're at least acknowledging it. Actually got a response back from CS that seemed to be from a human, and explicitly talked about and acknowledged the problem, so that's cool.
For a variety of reasons though I don't think I'm going to do this.
Geez...this makes me wonder, this is the THIRD game in recent years that I've been unable to finished because of a game breaking bug, and all three have been on Nintendo platforms.
Metroid: Other M
Magical Starsign
Sigma Star Story (I think that's the name).
Sorry to hear you hit the bug. I seemed to avoid that game breaker. I got partway through the epilogue and hit a boss that was killing me and I haven't gone back to it yet, however I really enjoyed the game up to that point and feel it was worth it. I'd be spitting out words most foul if I had, though. i'd send in the SD card save and get it fixed. I think it's worth it to be able to continue. Fun game!
Lone_Prodigy
CAGiversary!
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For what it's worth, it took me about 7 hours to beat the game and another 3 or so to get all the items. 100% in 10 hours isn't terribly long.
The Crotch
CAGiversary!
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Ouch. I remember that Sigma Star bug.
Get caught in an infinite loop of battle 'cause you killed enemies in a certain order, aye?
Get caught in an infinite loop of battle 'cause you killed enemies in a certain order, aye?
/
The Crotch
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And it was on, like, the second last planet or some shit, too...
Finished the game tonight with 92% completion.
I thought it was a great game that did many things very well and I was glad to have more story behind Samus.
I wish there was more of the old school music mixed throughout the game. I plan on giving this to my nephew for Christmas...I think he'll shit his pants. Solid game.
I thought it was a great game that did many things very well and I was glad to have more story behind Samus.
I wish there was more of the old school music mixed throughout the game. I plan on giving this to my nephew for Christmas...I think he'll shit his pants. Solid game.
[quote name='Wolfpup']It's hard to describe, but this FAQ is where I first found out about it:
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/file/metroid_other_m_e.txt
If you search for "glitches" it takes you right to where it describes the problem.
I was actually enjoying it quite a bit until that point!
Started Epic Mickey now, which...so far seem needlessly dark, slightly iffy on the controls, and...oh well, at least I like platformers.[/QUOTE]
I just got this game Iw ill have to look into it.
I am looking forward to playing this actually.
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/file/metroid_other_m_e.txt
If you search for "glitches" it takes you right to where it describes the problem.
I was actually enjoying it quite a bit until that point!
Started Epic Mickey now, which...so far seem needlessly dark, slightly iffy on the controls, and...oh well, at least I like platformers.[/QUOTE]
I just got this game Iw ill have to look into it.
I am looking forward to playing this actually.
I understand that a game-breaking glitch is a huge problem, but it's my understanding that in order to even have the glitch occur, you basically have to go backwards after beating a boss and save at some save point a room or two back, instead of going forward to the next cutscene.
I'm not saying gamebreaking bugs are okay- they aren't. It just seems to me like this one was highlighted as being this super glitch that kills the game no matter what you do, when it's only going to occur if you get save-happy.
It's my thinking that this glitch got so much press (as compared to the bugs that it seems nearly every 360 and PS3 big-name release has) that it was the nail in the coffin for the game. Whether you like or hate the game, you would likely be willing to pick it up and see what it offers and play through it. However, if you're on the fence and then hear about this game killing bug that can occur if you do something specific at a specific point in the game, you're not likely to buy the game.
I think though that this will lead to the next Metroid game being either REALLY good, or being the end of the series.
I'm not saying gamebreaking bugs are okay- they aren't. It just seems to me like this one was highlighted as being this super glitch that kills the game no matter what you do, when it's only going to occur if you get save-happy.
It's my thinking that this glitch got so much press (as compared to the bugs that it seems nearly every 360 and PS3 big-name release has) that it was the nail in the coffin for the game. Whether you like or hate the game, you would likely be willing to pick it up and see what it offers and play through it. However, if you're on the fence and then hear about this game killing bug that can occur if you do something specific at a specific point in the game, you're not likely to buy the game.
I think though that this will lead to the next Metroid game being either REALLY good, or being the end of the series.
KingBroly
CAGiversary!
In order for the glitch to happen, you get the Ice Beam, proceed to the next room, then go back to the previous room. It can happen sorta easily since there's an Accel Charge in the Ice Beam room where you need to bomb the floor to activate a Cannon to get to it. So if you do that before you leave the room, you'll be fine.
bread's done