Minor Moral Dilemma

Javery

Javery

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OK, this isn't a biggie but I'm curious to hear some thoughts... here's the sequence of events:

1. Tree falls on my house and destroys gutter and deck
2. Gutter people come out to repair gutter - $500
3. Tree people come out to remove fallen tree, stump and prune other trees on property - $2,100
4. Tree people destroy brand new gutter with truck
5. We pay tree people $1,600 (deducting the $500 cost of the gutter)
6. Actual cost of gutter re-repair = $350

So do I send in the extra $150 to the Tree people for karma's sake? I thought their initial quote was decent (the other company wanted $3,500(!) for the same work). I'm kind of leaning towards yes...

Thoughts?
 
I wouldn't bother. I'd keep the $150 as covering for the hassle of having to get your newly repaired gutter repaired again.

Think of it in usual CAG terms of cost + shipping + extra. :D
 
so you told them the gutters were 500 or what?
either way i wouldnt give them shit, the only thing i would give is myself a pat on the back.
 
yeah, I told them the gutters were $500 and I deducted it from the cost of the tree service (and I showed them the original invoice too). They were a little pissed because they said they had a guy who could do it for 1/2 that but they eventually gave in. Part of me just wants to say screw it but that's the kind of shit that comes back to bite you in the ass...
 
I'd just keep it. 150 bucks isnt that much, especially for a business. They have an amount set aside for when nthey fuck up anyways so they expect to lose stuff like that.
 
you might as well send it back if you are having second thoughts, its always good to have local businesses that you are in a good relationship with
 
I think you should do whatever you will feel better with. As long as you honestly believed it would cost 500 then I see no problem. But if giving them the 150 will make you feel better then just do that.
 
I guess I'm not understanding your math. Where in there did you get the gutter repaired for only $350? I'm reading that you paid $500 for a new gutter, then someone paid you $500 when they busted it. What am I missing?

Edit: Never mind. I don't know how I missed the re-repair. Yes, you should give them back the $150. I don't believe in karma but I do believe God rewards honesty and would reward your "Doing unto others" action.

From a purely self-serving perspective, I find that people are shocked, especially in business, when someone acts benevolently in their favor. If that is the only reason I still say it's worth $150 to make a move that will gain you so much trust and goodwill in someone else's eyes.
 
Didn't insurance cover the cost of the tree falling on your house? So when you file a claim use the $2100 tree work and the $500 gutter work. And give the $150 back to the tree company. Nothing should be coming out of your pocket anyway.
 
[quote name='Eviltude']I'd just keep it. 150 bucks isnt that much, especially for a business. They have an amount set aside for when nthey fuck up anyways so they expect to lose stuff like that.[/quote]

This is so true.

[quote name='Ikohn4ever']you might as well send it back if you are having second thoughts, its always good to have local businesses that you are in a good relationship with[/quote]

... but so is this... I can't imagine getting the trees pruned or anything anytime soon though...

[quote name='alonzomourning23']I think you should do whatever you will feel better with. As long as you honestly believed it would cost 500 then I see no problem. But if giving them the 150 will make you feel better then just do that.[/quote]

I did honestly believe it would cost $500 - that's what the first repair cost. The difference the second time was that they were able to reuse the gutter covering (to keep leaves and crap out) instead of replacing the entire thing.

[quote name='chosen1s']Yes, you should give them back the $150. I don't believe in karma but I do believe God rewards honesty and would reward your "Doing unto others" action.

From a purely self-serving perspective, I find that people are shocked, especially in business, when someone acts benevolently in their favor. If that is the only reason I still say it's worth $150 to make a move that will gain you so much trust and goodwill in someone else's eyes.[/quote]

Hmm... I don't believe in God (but I believe in karma?) so that's not a motivating factor. I agree with your second point. I'm sure they would be shocked but I'm not sure I care if I have their trust/goodwill. It would be totally self-serving to make me not feel guilty.

[quote name='cheapfrag']Didn't insurance cover the cost of the tree falling on your house? So when you file a claim use the $2100 tree work and the $500 gutter work. And give the $150 back to the tree company. Nothing should be coming out of your pocket anyway.[/quote]

No. My insurance has a $500 deductible so fixing the deck and the gutter would be pretty much a wash (I fixed the deck myself using less than $100 worth of new wood). Plus, the insurance company told me my rates might go up if I filed a claim so I just decided to eat it. The tree stump removal and pruning is considered regular maintenance and isn't covered by insurance, unfortunately (I tried that first).

[quote name='the3rdkey']By chance was the tree that fell on your deck your huge wang?[/quote]

Yes, there was no tree - it was my huge wang causing massive damage to my house's weak point.
 
I'd say you should only request $350 from the tree pruning company because it's not their fault that the first time that the gutter was fixed it cost $500. They're responsible for the second time it was fixed, which cost $350. Its your decision of course, but if you were going to do the right thing you'd return a portion of the money.
 
[quote name='botticus']I wouldn't bother. I'd keep the $150 as covering for the hassle of having to get your newly repaired gutter repaired again.

Think of it in usual CAG terms of cost + shipping + extra. :D[/quote]

I agree.
 
I don't think I'd send the tree people $150. Their fee was $2100, but they did some damage in the process, so $500 was deducted from the fee, as that was what you estimated it would cost to repair the damage. They accepted that estimate, i.e., they agreed to the $500, so the actual cost of the repair shouldn't really enter into it. If it ended up costing $650 to repair the damage they did, I wouldn't expect them to give you back another $150, because that wasn't the agreement.
 
I dunno, javeryh.. with a little creativity, a guy could have one helluva weekend with 150 clams...
 
It could very well have cost more than $500 to get your gutter fixed the 2nd time, contract work can easly jump in price, especially during a busy week, had it been a big issue they would have asked a copy of the repair bill.

If it's really bothering you donate the money to charity. Giving it back would would of course open up the legitimate claim that it could infact have been done for $250 and that you owe them an extra $100.
 
If they said they could get it done at half that cost, did you offer to with hold payment until they got it done? I don't think you did anything wrong here. I'm sure they still made plenty of money for cutting a tree and trimming a few. If you offered to let them have it repaired then I say the money is yours with no regrets.
 
[quote name='Scobie']I dunno, javeryh.. with a little creativity, a guy could have one helluva weekend with 150 clams...[/quote]

... in Bumblefuk Ohio
 
It's obviously bothering you, so I'd say call them, explain the situation, and offer the money back. They may (very likely) just tell you not to worry about it.
 
Well you are a lawyer. If there are any legal ramifications that could come about, give it back.

If it's based purely on morals... I don't know what I'd do.

Here's an anecdote to help you answer:

Once, my notoriously dumbass friend and I went and got a $5 pizza from Little Ceaser's. I gave them $20. The guy handed back our change to my friend, who in turn handed it to me. "What the hell," I thought to myself, "$4.65 change from a $20?" I backed up and explained the situation. "Oh," the employee said, 'that's right, you gave me a $20." He handed me ten dollar bill.

My friend lifted up the pizza box under his lap, and do you know what we saw? $10. In actuality, they had given my the money back. So I unknowingly lied to them and I got a free $10.

I told my friend I would keep it. It was my money. I told him, "If you weren't any idiot and wouldn't have let it drop under the box, we wouldn't have been in this mess -- give me the money." He wouldn't have any of it. He wanted to split it. I told him that he shouldn't be rewarded for being an idiot, and that if we were going to split it, I would just as soon drive back to the store and explain the situation. My leverage on him (after all, he was the one holding the money, so I needed leverage)? I was driving, and he would have been late for class if we didn't solve this situation (which would have resulted in detention -- this was in high school).

So would you like to guess what happened? We continued to banter, I turned around and headed back to the pizza store. He rolled down his window and threw it out the window.

So the answer, javeryh, is to throw the money out the window.
 
JaveryH you're a lawyer so I would have thought it was a no brainer ;P
It's called pain and suffering. hehe
Keep it! You had to take the extra time and effort to get it re-repaired.
 
[quote name='botticus']I wouldn't bother. I'd keep the $150 as covering for the hassle of having to get your newly repaired gutter repaired again.

Think of it in usual CAG terms of cost + shipping + extra. :D[/QUOTE]

Completely agree. This is about more than the cost of the repair. It's about the needless hassle imposed on the homeowner.

A vicious sort could have taken this to small claims and gotten their fee erased entirely, leaving them out far more than the $500.

The level of anger this would inspire in me would make keepingthat $150 a moral imperative. The only alternative would be to kill them all and start over under a new identity in a third world country with no extradition laws.
 
C'mon Javerh. As a lawyer, you should know better than to do this - paper trails can cause trouble, and it's better to have a clean slate - less hanging over your head, and less to worry about.
 
[quote name='javeryh']They were a little pissed because they said they had a guy who could do it for 1/2 that but they eventually gave in.[/QUOTE]I would have been like "I know a guy who could do my gutters for half of what you charge and I eventually gave in"

Though that may not have made any sense. I'm tired.
 
I would do this.

Goto Circuit City and pick up 3 Xbox 360 games. Put them in your left hand.

Then pull their card out and put it in your right hand.

What makes you happier?

Go with that instinct.
 
Keep the $150.

They've already robbed you for charging you $2100 for removing 1 tree and some pruning. It should have only cost half that to begin with.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Keep the $150.

They've already robbed you for charging you $2100 for removing 1 tree and some pruning. It should have only cost half that to begin with.[/QUOTE]


That IS a good point.
 
[quote name='javeryh']OK, this isn't a biggie but I'm curious to hear some thoughts... here's the sequence of events:

1. Tree falls on my house and destroys gutter and deck
2. Gutter people come out to repair gutter - $500
3. Tree people come out to remove fallen tree, stump and prune other trees on property - $2,100
4. Tree people destroy brand new gutter with truck
5. We pay tree people $1,600 (deducting the $500 cost of the gutter)
6. Actual cost of gutter re-repair = $350

So do I send in the extra $150 to the Tree people for karma's sake? I thought their initial quote was decent (the other company wanted $3,500(!) for the same work). I'm kind of leaning towards yes...

Thoughts?[/quote]

fuck that. I don't see a moral dilemna here, unless I am missing something. They screwed up the brand new gutter. You payed $500 to get the gutter fixed the first time. So you deduct nothing short of $500 off of the tree bill. That would be like me going to the store, buying something for $50, walking outside and having an associate of the store break it. They must give me $50, plain and simple.
 
[quote name='SIUfan86']fuck that. I don't see a moral dilemna here, unless I am missing something. They screwed up the brand new gutter. You payed $500 to get the gutter fixed the first time. So you deduct nothing short of $500 off of the tree bill. That would be like me going to the store, buying something for $50, walking outside and having an associate of the store break it. They must give me $50, plain and simple.[/quote]

I think we have our winner! That is some seriously good logic and I think that's what I'm going to do. Thanks!
 
[quote name='javeryh']I think we have our winner! That is some seriously good logic and I think that's what I'm going to do. Thanks![/quote]
It's atually very simple. You owe the tree repair company $2100 minus the cost to repair the damage they made. You charge them (out of your payable) the estimated cost to repair the gutter, $500. The actual cost to repair the damage was $350. You rightfully owe the reamining $150.

You would have owed the entire $2100 if they had had someone repair the gutter for you, and you may not have received the quality you expected.

It's not about getting ripped off, they provided a service at an agreed-upon price. You're shorting them $150 from the bill because you're sure they wont notice. Do you need the money that much?
 
[quote name='javeryh']I think we have our winner! That is some seriously good logic and I think that's what I'm going to do. Thanks![/quote]

No problem, it's just what makes sense to me.
 
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