MMA (UFC, Strikeforce, Bellator, Invicta, etc.) Discussion Thread -- Version II

Poor Arlovski. If the HW division wasn't held up by the Cain quagmire he would've gotten a titleshot, but now it is drifted out of his grasp.

It would've great to see him get the HW belt after being gone for like 8 years. It's funny that the three guys who flat-lined Overeem recently were all stopped by Arlovski. I do like Overeem though. Hard to deny him the titleshot now after stopping JDS and Arlovski.

 
TheN8torious said:
I thought it was bullshit myself when it was just Conor's team talking about it...considering all the posturing he's doing against the UFC. But why would Mayweather Sr. even acknowledge it if there was no truth to it? The money that could be made from that fight is truly ungodly.

The biggest obstacle I would see is whatever Conor has in his UFC contract (not to mention Reebok) that would prevent him from engaging in something like this. But if I were Floyd, I'd do this fight in a heartbeat if it were feasible. It would easily destroy even Pacquiao numbers. The money, man. The money...
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If the fight does happen which I really doubt it would, but no way it would even come close to Mayweather and Pacquiao number. Mayweather and Pacquiao was bulit on about 7 years of hype. Mayweather and Pacquiao are way bigger star than Conor, he doesn't even come close to them. The next big fight people want to see is Triple G and Canelo, not Mayweather and Conor.

Also Mayweather would destroy Conor that fight would not be interesting at all.

 
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Keeps getting weirder and weirder. Floyd himself is now saying he started the McGregor talk. Unless he's just massively trolling everybody, it sounds like it could actually happen.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2638839-floyd-mayweather-says-he-started-conor-mcgregor-fight-rumors

Also, blueweltall, I disagree whole heartedly on this not being bigger than the Mayweather/Pacquiao fight. In terms of pure boxing, of course that was a bigger deal. But Mayweather/McGregor speaks to two massive audiences. Maybe you could argue that some of those people belong to both fanbases, so there would be some overlap.

But I think it's silly to not recognize that it would pique a certain curiosity that would attract a very large number of people who might not be interested in Mayweather vs (insert random boxer) or McGregor vs (insert random MMA fighter). These are two guys who both possess very large and very separate brands.

And mentioning Golovkin vs Canelo is irrelevant. Yes, that's the next fight BOXING fans want to see. But that's not what we're talking about here.

 
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Sorry no, but you can think whatever you like. Mayweather and Pacquiao fight shattered the previously high pay per view numbers by almost double and that was at a premium price of $100. No way an Mayweather and Conor fight even would even come close to the 4.4 million pay per view of Mayweather and Pacquiao even at a cost of just $50, or would they even have the guts to ask for $100 for the fight.

But if it does happen and you're sure it will have a bigger number than Mayweather and Pacquiao, I am willing to wager a new $60 retail game of your choice, that's if you're willing to do the same. We can even do a donation to the child play charity if you want. The pay per view cost can even be priced at $50 and I would still want to do a wager with you.

 
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Yeah, no way MvM does more buys than MvP, but it could come close in terms of disappointment. Either way, it'd be an exhibition match. It's not like either of them are going for titles in eachother's respective sports.

As for Money's money...sure, he's loaded right now, but entourages aren't cheap to maintain and word has it that he's a notorious(;)) gambler, hence the initial return from retirement. I'm dying to know how much Hublot paid him to put their brand on his trunks when there were other adverts that were less prominent with deeper pockets. Personally, I think their watches are garish, but that ad shut down their site.

 
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blueweltall said:
Sorry no, but you can think whatever you like. Mayweather and Pacquiao fight shattered the previously high pay per view numbers by almost double and that was at a premium price of $100. No way an Mayweather and Conor fight even would even come close to the 4.4 million pay per view of Mayweather and Pacquiao even at a cost of just $50, or would they even have the guts to ask for $100 for the fight.

But if it does happen and you're sure it will have a bigger number than Mayweather and Pacquiao, I am willing to wager a new $60 retail game of your choice, that's if you're willing to do the same. We can even do a donation to the child play charity if you want. The pay per view cost can even be priced at $50 and I would still want to do a wager with you.
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I still think you're underestimating the marketing that would be behind it. The amount of shit talking would be off the charts. For it to do less than Mayweather/Pacquiao, you're assuming that a sect of that audience is not going to care about seeing Floyd come out of retirement to fight a loud Irishman who believes his sport and his skills to be superior to that of a 49-0 boxing legend. Maybe I'm crazy thinking that's a fight that sells itself.

As for betting on it...sorry. My money is my daughter's money. I don't gamble with it...especially on things I'm not in control of. Regardless of my feelings on the subject, that's just not something I believe in. Either way, I'd love to get to find out which of us is right. I'd welcome that circus.

 
The true test to see if it makes money is how much it appeals to the casuals. People who 100% don't' follow boxing were interested in Manny vs Pac. My mother even wanted to watch it. It's like back when everyone wanted to watch Tyson vs Holyfield even though they weren't regular boxing fans.

I personally wouldn't buy it just because I think it would be stupid, and you would end up paying $60 to $100 for just one fight. One thing MMA has going for it are stacked cards (usually).

This weekend is going to be a card I will probably watch from prellim to finish.

Werdum vs Stipe

Jacare vs Vitor

Anderson Silva vs Hall

Shogun vs Corey Anderson

Maia vs Matt Brown

Cummins vs Diet Nog

and the debut of Cyborg (not overly interested in it, but will watch)

 
There's been rumors of that of and on for a few years now and if it does happen I just hope it isn't to a Chinese company. I think that will lead to more freakshows and potentially other backroom shenanigans.

If a foreign entity does buy it, I'd rather have it be one the rich sheiks over in Abu Dhabi or somewhere else in the UAE. I believe the younger prince of the UAE still owns a pretty big share of it. The UAE has the most jiu-jitsu outside of the US and Brazil and they have what one of the biggest championships there. 

They have enough money they can do it for the love of it, and not make it crooked. Well it would probably still be crooked, but not as crooked as if a Chinese company was running it. It would set MMA back so far if the UFC ever got caught fight fixing and paying off like Pride did.

On another topic, Frank Mir's B-sample came back positive. So it looks like that it is a career for Mir. What a sucky way to go out. That kangaroo meat did him in. I was looking for the jacked kangaroo on google images and  saw Sage's photo put next to it. Don't know what, but thought it was funny.

[attachment=21849:sage.jpg]

 
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Hate to break it to you, but the hurt game is all about fixing and being corrupt. It's the way it's always worked and it doesn't matter who "owns it."

That said, the Big Money behind it would only serve to expand the sport with the manufactured superstars and spectacle. Mainstream baby!

 
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Nothing is ever completely on the up and up. But I am sure that the UFC isn't anything like Pride was where outcomes were determined before fights and people were paid to take dives by management. Fertitas are already huge money. Some foreign company running it would just make such corruption worse. We already have enough manufactured superstars. Guys like GSP, Anderson Silva, Fedor deserve to be superstars. McGregor has pushed along by the hype train and being a spectacle. Then there is the whole next level of stupid and untalented that is Kimbo, Dada and CM Punk.

 
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Leslie Smith...lol. What a tomato can. :lol:

Also, Cyborg weighed in at 139lbs. She's a damn idiot if she can't lose 3 more pounds. That 3 pounds is probably worth $50 million at least.

Unless she wants to stay on the Fedor path and never test herself against the best competition, I can't see a reason to not find a way to drop 3 more pounds.
 
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Interesting night.

Cyborg did as expected. She beat a bloated up 125 lb girl who fights at 135 at a match at 140. I don't understand why she says she is going to stay at 140 or 145. There are no names or big fighters for her and nobody who is smart is going to move up in weight to fight her and end up derailing their chance at a title shot for 135.

Barbarena derailed another hyper train. I did like enjoy Alves telling the ref he was tapping as Barbarena gave the thumbs up. They also seemed like they were making a point of ignoring Benson Henderson as he was coaching and hugging Barbarena. They finally just mentioned he was there before the third round. He was the LW champion like 1.5 years ago.

They love mentioning Vitor's black belt in bjj but in his last few fights he has looked like he has never taken a class before. The Weidman fight showed horrible grappling and he showed some horrible grappling tonight. When he finally had a chance to disengage he went and pulled guard.

Finally Werdum just bullrushed Stipe. Where was the patient Werdum who punished Cain in the clinch and picked apart Browne, and Nelson and landed that sweet knee on Huny? He just ran at Stipe with his hands down.

 
I couldn't belive Werdum at the post-fight press conference. "I was reckless. He hit me with a hard shot. But I won 6 fights in a row and I was the champion. So, I think the only fair thing to do is have a rematch."

FUUUUUUUUCK YOU!!!! lol...I like Werdum, but that's some stupid shit, man. He didn't even have one successful title defense. That's the exact scenario I always talk about...not getting a rematch because you just "dun goof'd" and think you deserve a do over. I'm tired of seeing legitimate contenders get screwed over because people had horrible fight strategies. Overeem should get the next shot. He deserves it.

At best, have Werdum fight the winner of Velasquez/Browne...for the next title shot after Overeem. That should be the compromise. Give former champions an opportunity for a quick turnaround...and let them prove if the loss was a fluke or not. But that's how common these immediate rematches are at this point. Freaking everybody who loses asks for one.

 
Well they can ask for one doesn't mean they will get one. But isn't that a big part of being a champion or successful person and wanting to try again?

 
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I hate the constant rematches and don't think Werdum should get one, but he would be stupid not to throw that out. Being the champ is worth a lot more money, and if he can get another quick shot at it he would be smart to take it. I don't think he should get it of course, but the UFC loves rematches.

The heavyweight division is like a giant game of rock/paper/scissors

Overeem smashes JDS. JDS smashes Rothwell. Rothewell smashes Overeem.

Overeem KOs Arlovski. Arlovski KOs Browne. Browne KOs Overeem. (Also could insert Bigfoot)

If Overeem gets the titleshot it could be another rock/paper/scissors. Reem beats JDS. JDS beats Stipe. Stipe beats Reem?

I'd like to see Hunt get one more shot at the top 5 to a titleshot. Have him fight either Browne or Cain. Hunt's fight against JDS was pretty awesome and he did that with a broken foot. The spinning kick that JDS caught him with was a thing of beauty though. He was also winning the Werdum fight until the flying knee. The Stipe fight he just looked bad and was out of shape.

 
Also - from Saturday night. Forgot about Diet Nog taking out Cummins. Nice to see Nog get  a win. I think maybe he should hang it up like hi brother and go out with a win over a decent guy. I don't want to see him laid out again by the likes of Rumble.

Cummins is also someone who apparently can die on his feet. This one and the Glover had the ref jump into save him as he is getting destroyed while standing up. He 

 
DT778 said:
Jose Aldo should have got a rematch. Him not getting one was some bullshit.
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The only case I'd make for that was him being a long-standing champion. The counter argument for that is that Aldo rarely did the UFC any favors. He pulled out of numerous fights, he didn't like promoting, and he refused to learn English. There's a reason Urijah Faber is getting another title shot and Jose Aldo didn't.

DarkTower80 said:
Weidman is out of 199 now. No replacement named yet but Jacare and Bisping are the names being put out there.
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Yup...another immediate rematch that falls apart and wastes everybody's time. I'd love to see Rockhold smash Bisping. I don't think it would be fair to throw Jacare at him with little notice though. He's a totally different style than Weidman. Jacare is more deserving. But give him a full camp title shot...like they were planning on doing anyway.

 
I could watch Bisping get destroyed again by Rockhold, but that feels like more of a Fight Night card not a PPV. The only two guys who should fill in are Romero or Jacare. I think Romero can technically fight again since he got the short like 6 month suspension for his tainted supplement (first time I can remember off the top of my head a supplement actually being proven to be tainted)

Jacare took no damage from Vitor though. Both those guys are beasts so Rockhold would be better of taking a whole camp to get ready for their style, but who knows since they want to save the PPV.

 
Damn - hope Jacare comes back just as strong. If anyone likes BJJ they should watch his highlights online too. He has an aggressive style with lots of Judo takedowns.

Bisping should be smashed barring Rockhold having a brain-fart. Bisping has has pillowfists so it isn't likely for Bisping to have a chance of landing a quick one shot KO (like if Rockhold had to face Romero). I think it is going to be just like the last fight. Entertaining enough I guess.

 
Glad it's Bisping. I always feel like the "easiest" opponent should be chosen if you're going to change somebody's opponent with little notice...especially in a title fight.

Yeah, maybe that's not as exciting of a fight, but I don't think they needed to "save the PPV". That card is pretty stacked. Cruz/Faber, Hendo/Lombard, Holloway/Lamas, Poirier/Green, Penn/Miller, Ortega/Guida...even Dariush/Vick isn't a bad foght.

Those are all pretty interesting fights in my opinion.
 
I actually saw Bisping and he seemed like a really cool person. He took his time to greet the fans, took pictures, and signed autograph during one of the UFC in Colorado.

 
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From his point of view it makes sense to play dumb. Connor is still a huge money maker even though they are having problems, and going out there to let Mayweather clown him would not make the sport of MMA or the UFC look good.

The fight would be pretty much Mayweather doing his elusive thing smashing Connor whenever he got in range. So then after the fight Connor will look like he got hit with a brick and Mayweather will be another 150 million richer.

The real question is how come Mayweather is coming back? Did he already blow through all his money (again)? Blowing through millions on a weekly basis is an impressive feat.

 
Because there are soo many suckers out there still willing to pay to see him in boring boxing matches then bitch about how boring it was.

Also it doesn't hurt him to put it out there that he can still draw money.

But will any of you guys pay for this? Even if I put aside that I'm not a fan of either of these guys what would be entertaining about this if the winner would already be determined based on if it's a boxing match or mma.
 
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TheN8torious said:
The only case I'd make for that was him being a long-standing champion. The counter argument for that is that Aldo rarely did the UFC any favors. He pulled out of numerous fights, he didn't like promoting, and he refused to learn English. There's a reason Urijah Faber is getting another title shot and Jose Aldo didn't.
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Yeah, the UFC has their reasons for not giving Aldo the respect he deserves but yeah, Conner could have had a rematch. Rousey doesn't have to earn a title shot. I wonder why. Anyways I really wanted to see this rematch happen back then. It has lost its luster now.
 
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I actually think it would be interesting as a boxing match. Not because I think McGregor would win. But just to see how a high level fighter from a different discilpline would deal with Floyd's movement, and whether he could ever catch him.

And honestly, with the way Floyd fights, Conor not being a boxer might actually be a positive. Floyd gets away with so much grabbing. Any time somebody does walk him down or has an angle to hit him, he clinches. Any time he does get hit, he clinches.

Conor is used to that as an MMA fighter. I'd love to see him push Floyd off and keep coming. That's why Mayweather coasts through so many fights. Nobody challenges his style.

49 other opponents couldn't do anything with it. Maybe giving a non traditional fighter a crack isn't as crazy as it seems. That still doesn't mean Conor could touch him, but there are things about the match up that make sense.

Additionally, Floyd is 39 and was never a big KO guy. That would afford Conor the opportunity to be more aggressive and see if he can bully Floyd. He's naturally the bigger man, so again, there are things about it that make sense.

And to address Dokstarr's point, I don't think letting Floyd "clown" Conor is any more of a risk than potentially letting Diaz do it sgain. A loss to Mayweather would still give Conor a ready made excuse of not being his sport...but still wanting to test himself. And of course he could still hold over Floyd's head that if it had been a "real fight", he would have murdered him.

Maybe I'm nuts, but I just don't see a downside here.
 
I think letting Floyd destroying Connor would hurt the sport in the eyes of the "casual fan". The same ones who think CM Punk can make a run at getting the UFC belt, Brock Lesnar is the baddest man on the planet, Rousey would thrash Cain Velasquez, and that somebody like the Rock would dominate most UFC HWs.

MMA is already looked down upon by lots of people as being not real athletes, barbaric, or full of douche bags in Tapout shirts. My mother bought Manny vs Floyd but is horrified by the UFC. It has only recently began to be covered by real sports networks and only had the first Fox show a few years ago.

Having the top paid MMA star get thrashed could hurt. The real fans and people who follow the sport know that it is completely different, but public opinion matters. At least Diaz is a top level MMA fighter. It is the same reason Mayweather would never in a million years take a MMA fight. Every real fan boxing fan knows that boxing and MMA are very different, but his "brand" would suffer a huge blow.

 
Dokstarr said:
I think letting Floyd destroying Connor would hurt the sport in the eyes of the "casual fan". The same ones who think CM Punk can make a run at getting the UFC belt, Brock Lesnar is the baddest man on the planet, Rousey would thrash Cain Velasquez, and that somebody like the Rock would dominate most UFC HWs.

MMA is already looked down upon by lots of people as being not real athletes, barbaric, or full of douche bags in Tapout shirts. My mother bought Manny vs Floyd but is horrified by the UFC. It has only recently began to be covered by real sports networks and only had the first Fox show a few years ago.

Having the top paid MMA star get thrashed could hurt. The real fans and people who follow the sport know that it is completely different, but public opinion matters. At least Diaz is a top level MMA fighter. It is the same reason Mayweather would never in a million years take a MMA fight. Every real fan boxing fan knows that boxing and MMA are very different, but his "brand" would suffer a huge blow.
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I guess it depends on the definition of being "thrashed". Granted, part of that is dependent on how patient McGregor is or whether Floyd could frustrate him and make him do something stupid. But in general, I don't see Floyd knocking Conor out. If he fought smart, I think Conor has enough tools to keep the fight interesting and entertaining...even as a glorified sparring session.

What I would honestly LOVE to see though is a hybrid fight. Alternating boxing and MMA rounds. See who gives up first. That might actually motivate Floyd to not dick around and go for the kill. But yeah, there's no way he'd ever agree to it. That's the funny thing about the whole situation, and what highlights the superiority of MMA. The only way a "fight" between the two is interesting is using special rules that limit what McGregor is allowed to do.

 
They do those hybrid matches over in Dream and stuff sometimes where the rules switch between rounds. Speaking of weirder things, everyone should check out some of the weird things coming out of Russia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvNzQ1fWURE

You can find pretty much all of M-1's "medieval" fights on youtube or other similar sites

or the TFC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GixDXD44_yA

I personally like the TFC because it is the most like an actual bar fight. Fighting with one guy becomes him and his four friends, knock you down, and it ends up with 5 people just stomping as you cover your head.

 
Hahaha, I actually just stumbled upon that same medieval fight video the other night when I was trying to see if anybody had ever done a knight's armor hockey sketch. Of course, leave it to M-1 Global to out-freakshow Bellator. :lol:

And TFC...ehhh...sure, maybe that's like a bar fight. But bar fights are fucked up. Being outnumbered is always bad news (unless you're the only one who knows what he's doing). When I first heard about that, I said what I'd rather see is tag team MMA. It could almost be like a pitching staff where you have specialists. You'd have your kickboxing guy, your wrestling guy, your BJJ guy, etc. It would give matches an interesting chess match element while still keeping the action 1v1.

 
I'm going to withhold judgement on this until I see what exactly the official finding is. Getting busted for using an IV in March just seems so weird. Why was he using it? Did he have the flu or a fever? Did he have a nasty workout and try to rehydrate with it? Did he get massively wasted on Friday night and decided to get an IV to skip the hangover? Was he trying to cover up some other PED with the IV to flush the system?

If he was using it maliciously to cover up something - why would he admit to it? If he didn't admit to it than they would've never known.

Did he just get the form and it asks have you had an IV's and he checked yes? I could see him potentially no knowing the explicit rules that have changed this year and getting caught that way. Granted it isn't an excuse, but it could make sense. I don't think anyone with think IV use was banned in and out of competition. I didn't know it was banned at all times til right now.

My personal opinion is that it should be banned by the weigh-in time since it encourages people to cut huge unhealthy amounts of weight. But if someone feels horrible a few months before a fight and gets an IV to get their electrolytes, salts and hydration back in the right area - then I have no problem. It isn't a PED.

As long as he wasn't trying to mask something, then I feel bad for him. He should know the rules - even the stupid ones.

 
Yeah, that's the thing...regardless of the circumstances, it just looks super dumb. If he legitimately needed an IV and went to the doctor/hospital, then I doubt this would be an issue. Outside of that, what need is their for any athlete to be running their own IV line?

And he's been at Jackson's for a while now. Surely, they know the rules. So, is he doing this outside the gym without their knowledge? Either way, it makes Penn look devious or dumb. Unless it's something as simple as going to the doctor and not informing USADA about it, it's hard to find a positive spin here.

And yeah, it's sad that this has to be a rule at all. But if blood doping through IV's is possible, then they HAVE to outlaw it because if they didn't, you'd see guys flocking to it as "the only option". So, sure, it's probably overly strict...but it's better than giving cheaters a loophole. Basically, "this is why we can't have nice things", haha.

 
Stipe vs Overeem for next HW title fight. Makes sense. I think I have Overeem in this. Stipe has looked impressive, but his 3 wins just don't show me enough.

Hunt looked horribly out of shape and gassed immediately in his fight. Arlovski got blitzed right away in like the opening minute so I didn't see enough. And Werdum chased him with his hands down.

The most impressive Stipe has looked to me was the first two rounds against JDS when he was mauling him. Then round 3, 4, and 5 he fell completely apart and lost.

Overeem's recent wins have just looked better. The crane kick to Arlovski. The knockout of JDS. And the schlacking of Nelson and Struve.

Of course if there is one fighter who can look amazing for most of the fight until he crashes and burns, it is Overeem. He completely dismantled Bigfoot and Travis Browne until they both dropped him. Overeem has been much more conservative since those two KOs and the one from Rothwell. It is a smarter Overeem, but a little less exciting now, but if he finally wants that title he better make the most of this opportunity.

 
Yeah, ESPN had a funny announcement about it too.
 
Newly crowned UFC heavyweight champion Stipe Miocic and Alistair Overeem have been booked for a title fight at UFC 203 on Sept. 10 in Miocic's home state of Cleveland.

The great state of Cleveland ;)

 
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