Multilateralism Fails....Again....Appeaser Kerry Take Notice

CTLesq

CAGiversary!
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09102004/postopinion/opedcolumnists/28238.htm

FIASCO A LA FRANCAISE

By AMIR TAHERI

September 10, 2004 -- ONE of the charges leveled against President Bush on Iraq is that he circum vented the United Nations, ignored allies and acted unilaterally. The theory is that an OK from U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan and French President Jacques Chirac is the surest guarantee of success for U.S. foreign policy, especially in the Middle East.
That theory was put to the test earlier this month — and proved to be not only false but counter-productive, at least for the time being.

Here is the story: French diplomats, anxious to offer an alternative to Bushian "regime change," spent a good part of the summer in secret talks with their U.S. counterparts in search of a common policy on Syria, one of the oldest members of the club of "states sponsoring terrorism." By the end of August, the talks had produced agreement on joint action to end Syria's military presence in Lebanon.

On Sept. 2 came something that had not happened in a while: France and the United States jointly sponsored a Security Council resolution calling on Syria to take its army out of Lebanon and allow the disarming of Lebanese militias, including the Iranian-controlled Hezbollah.

The resolution passed 9-0, with six abstentions, indicating unusual U.N. consensus. French diplomats were in seventh heaven: They had proved they could do through diplomacy what the "Cowboy" Bush insists on doing through force.

But what happened next was less idyllic: Far from bowing to the "collective will of the international community," Syria decided to ignore the Bush-Chirac alliance and reacted by, in effect, abolishing the Lebanese state.

Syrian President Bashar al-Assad summoned Lebanon's Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri to Damascus, the Syrian capital. Hariri was left to cool his heels for two hours before being admitted into Assad's presence for 15 minutes to receive "instructions," including an order to have the Lebanese Constitution amended to allow the six-year term of President Emil Lahoud, a Syrian appointee, to be extended for three years.



Assad also summoned Nabih Berri, speaker of the Lebanese Parliament, and instructed him to amend the Constitution and extend Lahoud's term in a single session. The Syrian leader insisted that his orders be carried out within 24 hours after the Chirac-Bush "triumph" at the Security Council.

The point that the Lebanese state has effectively ceased to exist was driven home when the so-called parliament in Beirut did as Assad had ordered, by a vote of 96 to 29.

To emphasize his disdain for the United Nations, Assad also ordered a strengthening of Syria's military presence in Lebanon from 28,000 men to almost 40,000 men before year's end.

Syria's various secret services, some of which operate their own courts and prisons in both Syria and Lebanon, have also been ordered to adopt a higher profile in Beirut. And Iran has stepped up its arms shipments to the Lebanese branch of Hezbollah, via Syria.

All this is accompanied by a campaign in the state-owned media in Damascus and the Syrian-controlled newspapers in Beirut against Franco-U.S. "imperialist" intervention "to undermine Arab unity" by driving Assad's army out of Lebanon.

Although Syria has been the de facto power in Lebanon for almost three decades, no one had expected Assad to advertise it so dramatically and in open defiance of the Chirac-Bush alliance. Assad's stance was more surprising because he had failed to persuade such long-time allies as Russia and China to veto the Franco-U.S. resolution.

Why has Assad behaved as he has?

The main reason is that Assad's Ba'athist dictatorship is one of those regimes that respond only to the threat or the actual use of force. Their strategy is based on the assumption that while sticks and stones can break their bones, words shall harm them never!

Saddam Hussein's Ba'athist dictatorship in Baghdad was another such regime. It had learned from the experience of 13 years, in which it ignored 12 mandatory U.N. resolutions, that diplomacy could never threaten the only thing that mattered to Saddam: his hold on power.

If Saddam violated 12 resolutions over 13 years before he faced the threat of war, Assad has 11 resolutions and 12 more years to go. Why pay any attention to the Franco-American huffing and puffing this early in the game?

A despotic regime can't afford to heed U.N. resolutions: It would end up being asked to stop imprisoning, torturing and murdering its opponents, to accept free elections — in short, to commit political suicide. It would also lose part of its aura of invincibility and its capacity to terrorize its population.

Assad is banking on "the great good news" that his media promise: A Bush loss in November. The Syrian media hope that "the Bush storm" will soon blow over and that America will revert to its traditional policy of coddling the despot of Damascus. After all, Bush is the only U.S. president since 1969 who has refused to meet the Syrian ruler. (Bill Clinton met Hafez al-Assad, Bashar's father, twice and endorsed his occupation of Lebanon.)

Another reason for Assad's defiance: The mullahs of Tehran, who prop up his regime with money, arms and cheap oil, are determined not to allow international diplomacy any meaningful role in the region. The mullahs fear that the Franco-U.S. resolution on Lebanon could set a precedent and lead to a resolution against Iran's nuclear-weapons program. The mullahs are also determined to maintain the Lebanese branch of Hezbollah as their surrogate army in what they see as a war against America and Israel.

The Syrian riposte to the Franco-U.S. move has not been limited to political maneuvers and propaganda. In close cooperation with Tehran, Syria has called on its agents and allies in Iraq to step up their campaign of terror in hopes of weakening Bush's position in the forthcoming U.S. election.

"The fire in Iraq will spread," promises the newspaper Tishrin, an organ of the Syrian Ba'ath. The Iranian media similarly make no secret of their hope that a Bush defeat would lead to a quick U.S. retreat from the region.

Well, here we have a textbook case of multilateral diplomacy as opposed to Bushian "extremism."

Syria has been courted for more than two years by France and other members of the European Union and offered the widest range of goodies that "soft power" can provide. President Assad has been feted half a dozen European capitals and flattered as "a great leader."

We also have a very nice resolution, number 1559, written in the politest possible language. It is not demanding the moon. All it asks is for Syria to take its army out of Lebanon, a U.N. founding member, and let the Lebanese run their own lives, just as the people of East Timor have since the end of the Indonesian occupation. The resolution does not call for any investigation of the numerous alleged crimes committed by the Syrians in Lebanon over the past 30 years, including the murder of two elected presidents and the looting of the Lebanese treasury.

In other words, "soft power" cannot get softer than this. Yet it is a safe bet that Syria will not evacuate Lebanon unless it is either kicked out by force or sees its own regime threatened with destruction as a result of military action.

Almost a year ago, the European Union tried "soft power" to persuade Iran not to build a nuclear arsenal, and failed. The "soft power" move towards Syria is also heading for failure.

Those who still believe that Saddam would have been persuaded to mend his ways through an endless series of U.N. resolutions would do well to ponder the Iranian and Syrian experiments. We have a beautiful resolution; we have Kofi Annan and Jacques Chirac in the driving seat; we are doing multilateralism, and yet we are getting nowhere.

Should we not wonder why?
 
but....but....but.... there's ALWAYS a diplomatic solution. War is NEVER the answer. PEACE AT ALL COSTS !!


Terrorists and their leaders in this region of the world don't hate us because we're infidels, they hate us because we can give their people something they have always feared- freedom to choose new leaders.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']but....but....but.... there's ALWAYS a diplomatic solution. War is NEVER the answer. PEACE AT ALL COSTS !!


Terrorists and their leaders in this region of the world don't hate us because we're infidels, they hate us because we can give their people something they have always feared- freedom to choose new leaders.[/quote]

Wouldn't the American haters on this forum like to see this replayed:

nevill3.jpg
 
I just heard the UN threaten Syria and they said "Resolutions WILL come!"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!11!!
 
[quote name='Scrubking']I just heard the UN threaten Syria and they said "Resolutions WILL come!"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!11!![/quote]

Don't forget there will be "serious consequences"...or not.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']but....but....but.... there's ALWAYS a diplomatic solution. War is NEVER the answer. PEACE AT ALL COSTS !!


Terrorists and their leaders in this region of the world don't hate us because we're infidels, they hate us because we can give their people something they have always feared- freedom to choose new leaders.[/quote]

New leaders like the Shah of Iran that we restored to power? Yeah, that worked out well...

Republicans always like to claim that anyone who opposes a war is some sort of hippie peacenik but what about the Afghanistan war? Were there hundreds of thousands of people in the streets protesting that one? No? The Afghanistan war was a just cause. Iraq was not.
 
[quote name='MrBadExample'][quote name='bmulligan']but....but....but.... there's ALWAYS a diplomatic solution. War is NEVER the answer. PEACE AT ALL COSTS !!


Terrorists and their leaders in this region of the world don't hate us because we're infidels, they hate us because we can give their people something they have always feared- freedom to choose new leaders.[/quote]

New leaders like the Shah of Iran that we restored to power? Yeah, that worked out well...

Republicans always like to claim that anyone who opposes a war is some sort of hippie peacenik but what about the Afghanistan war? Were there hundreds of thousands of people in the streets protesting that one? No? The Afghanistan war was a just cause. Iraq was not.[/quote]

Right and you forget how quickly Afghanistan came after 9/11.

Just like you wouldn't have dared to make many of the comments you are currently making right after 9/11.

Iraq was a war which was approved by the US Congress. That is all the justification we need.

CTL
 
Oh, so were are supposed to be in a perpetual 'post 9/11 fear stage' so the administation can continue to have its way?

I never bought into that billshit, not even in the days following 9/11.
Go ahead, call me an unpatriotic terrorist, I don't give a shit about your slime.
 
[quote name='CTLesq']
Iraq was a war which was approved by the US Congress. That is all the justification we need.
[/quote]

I do believe we have a true case of both hypocrisy AND irony here.

The 'justification' for war was the 'imminent threat of anihalation by weapons of mass destruction'.

Which turned out to be a total lie.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']Oh, so were are supposed to be in a perpetual 'post 9/11 fear stage' so the administation can continue to have its way?[/quote]

The better question is for political reasons should you be attacking everything after 9/11 for being wrong?

[quote name='Quackzilla']I never bought into that billshit, not even in the days following 9/11.[/quote]

Aren't you a hero.

[quote name='Quackzilla']Go ahead, call me an unpatriotic terrorist, I don't give a shit about your slime.[/quote]

You do care.

CTL
 
[quote name='MrBadExample']The Afghanistan war was a just cause. Iraq was not.[/quote]

Bush may had lied about the cause, but that's irrelevant. It was just.
 
[quote name='sblymnlcrymnl'][quote name='MrBadExample']The Afghanistan war was a just cause. Iraq was not.[/quote]

Bush may had lied about the cause, but that's irrelevant. It was just.[/quote]

So Clinton lies about a BJ and he gets impeached. Yet Bush can lie to get us into a war that we will be dealing with for many, many years and that's okay with you?
 
First, I don't think Clinton was a bad President. But ultimately, Clinton was the only person who could be held responsible for him receiving a BJ in the oval office and then lying about it. No one else. Bush had the backing of Congress (who is supposed to check against any facts they have concerns with). If Congress had any doubts they had their chance to voice them. Iraq made their own bed when they defied U.N. orders. If Saddam wanted to to stay in power all he had to do was comply.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']First, I don't think Clinton was a bad President. But ultimately, Clinton was the only person who could be held responsible for him receiving a BJ in the oval office and then lying about it. No one else. Bush had the backing of Congress (who is supposed to check against any facts they have concerns with). If Congress had any doubts they had their chance to voice them. Iraq made their own bed when they defied U.N. orders. If Saddam wanted to to stay in power all he had to do was comply.[/quote]

Clinton's BJ didn't get 1000 US soldiers and thousands of innocent Iraqis killed.
 
There is an underlying irony in all of this.

France had invaded an Arab nation, and discovered that it was literally IMPOSSIBLE to take an Arab nation by force. They will not sit and obey a hostile occupying nation.

They... tried to warn us... why didn't we listen...
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']First, I don't think Clinton was a bad President. But ultimately, Clinton was the only person who could be held responsible for him receiving a BJ in the oval office and then lying about it. No one else. Bush had the backing of Congress (who is supposed to check against any facts they have concerns with). If Congress had any doubts they had their chance to voice them. Iraq made their own bed when they defied U.N. orders. If Saddam wanted to to stay in power all he had to do was comply.[/quote]

Problem was, HE was complying more and more. The inspectors were bulldozing the AL-Samoud missles that they said had a range of 15 miles over the limit. Saddam complained that it was only over the limit without a payload. He had them bulldozed anyway.
Everyone also doesn't seem to know that the authorization Congress passed had things in it that required Bush to do BEFORE he invaded. He was supposed to appear before Congress. He was also supposed to get authorization from the UN security council. The authorization was supposed to be used as a big stick to get Saddam to comply. It had started to work, because Saddam began to comply more. When Bush saw that, he quickly invaded.
 
Man, I was so fucking pissed off at his announcement that he would invade in 48 hours.

He had lied about everything and he was about to murder even more people than in Afganistan, where Red Crescent warehouses and convoys were targeted and the only humanitarian food aid was packets of freeze dried bread and meat, and dehydrated water.

Who the fuck does Bush think he is?
 
[quote name='MrBadExample']
Clinton's BJ didn't get 1000 US soldiers and thousands of innocent Iraqis killed.[/quote]

I'll be the first to admit that Clinton getting a BJ shouldn't have been front page news. But when he is asked about it and lies (during legal procedures no less), that speaks for itself.

I don't just fall along party lines. When Clinton was President I stood behind him because he was our leader. It doesn't matter whether I agree with him our not. He deserved respect and got it. When he was caught in a lie I lost respect for him because his own pleasure was placed above the truth. Bush didn't just send people over to Iraq to die for nothing. This is the information age and if something was lied about DEFINITIVELY (not just conjecture) the news would have been all over it. If you don't believe me, ask Dan Rather.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Bush didn't just send people over to Iraq to die for nothing. This is the information age and if something was lied about DEFINITIVELY (not just conjecture) the news would have been all over it. If you don't believe me, ask Dan Rather.[/quote]

He invaded Iraq because he said they had WMDs and posed an "imminent threat" to us. Both have yet to be proven. He ignored all evidence to the contrary in the build-up to war.
 
[quote name='sblymnlcrymnl']Bush may had lied about the cause, but that's irrelevant. It was just.[/quote]

Wow. I think that says it all. If this is what you think (generic you, mostly Republicans, obviously), then there's no point in further discussion.
 
The main problem I have with the whole "Bush lied about the reason for going to Iraq" argument is that if it is true, no one has come up with what the "real" reason might be.

At first people said it was to avenge Bush 41. Nothing credible to back that up at all. If it were true he would have been impeached (and deservedly so) on the spot.

Then it was for oil. Nothing credible to back that up. Especially when oil has been at record high prices.

If it isn't those reasons, then why do you think the US went to war? I would like your opinions.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']The main problem I have with the whole "Bush lied about the reason for going to Iraq" argument is that if it is true, no one has come up with what the "real" reason might be.

At first people said it was to avenge Bush 41. Nothing credible to back that up at all. If it were true he would have been impeached (and deservedly so) on the spot.

Then it was for oil. Nothing credible to back that up. Especially when oil has been at record high prices.

If it isn't those reasons, then why do you think the US went to war? I would like your opinions.[/quote]

For one thing, the burden of proof should be on Dubya since his reasons for the war have been shot down.

Bush did call Saddam "that guy that tried to kill my dad." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/09/28/wirq228.xml Now threatening a former US President could be a proper motivation for action as Clinton did order strikes agaisnt Iraq. But when Bush says "my dad" instead of "former president Bush," it doesn seem to be more personal than professional.

As far as oil prices being up, do you think oil companies (and the cabinet members with big oil ties) want the price to go down.? Hell no!

I think we went to war with Iraq for a variety of reasons:

1. The Neocons thought establishing a democracy in the Middle East would have a positive domino effect spreading democracies in the region. Wee intentioned but we know where that paves the road to.

2. The Neocons had a hard-on for Saddam ever since he survived Desert Storm. He was beaten and contained but he wouldn't go away.

3. Bush seems to want to prove himself to his father and taking out Saddam was one way to do it since his father stopped short of that. (This is not a hard, fact-based argument, just a feeling.)

4. They thought Iraq posed an easier target than al Qaeda so they went after them. (Although according to Richard Clarke, Bush was making plans for Iraq possibly before 9/11).

This is all speculation though. Only Bush can answer why we went after Iraq. So far, each reason he has given has been shot down. I hope he gets called on the carpet for this in the debates.
 
True this is specualtion but I appreciate your opinions.

Out of those possible reasons, I will concede that your first one seems to be the most likely possibility. Although Israel is a democracy, that doesn't mean as much in the Middle East (considering most countries in the area are hostile to Israel). A democractic country that is primarily Islamic however must have been intriguing to the government.

Although I am supporting Bush in this election, I think it would be a good idea to clear the air as best he can. It seems like the reasons for the war are being shot down (his reasons and the reasons most liberals believe) and if both sides can find some common ground, it will be a major step forward.
 
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