New PS2 model officially announced SCPH-70000

But it does seem like Nintendo Products seem to have a lower failure rate than other products... anybody have any solid numbers on this... I'd be intrested to find out.
 
It all depends on how it's designed, the more moving parts, the more chance of mechanical failure.

The PStwo has fewer of these parts which puts it more in line with the GC which as far as I know has been good with product failure.
 
[quote name='mario23air']I guess the PS2 HDD is pretty much useless now. Another add-on bites the dust.[/quote]

why does everyone say this?

The PS2 library is so large that if I was to save all my games onto a memory card, I would need at least another 2 cards.
 
I still have the original launch PS2 and it still works so I won't be buying the new designed ps2 for a while, probably by then the PS3 will be out and the price for a ps2 will be around $99 or lower. My only question and worry is how will they cool the system? Laptops(yes, I know they are more complicated than a ps2) generally get warm/hot after a few hours so how does sony prevent the new ps2 from overheating expecially if you're a gamer who likes to play 7 hours straight.
 
I like the design, but I dont like the lack of hard drive. I guess you could use a USB external hard drive and plug it in to the front USB ports (if this new one even still has USB ports).
 
The more I see it, the more I like it. :)

scej24.jpg


scej21.jpg
 
[quote name='Kaijufan']I like the design, but I dont like the lack of hard drive. I guess you could use a USB external hard drive and plug it in to the front USB ports (if this new one even still has USB ports).[/quote]

they will not get rid of the USB ports mainly due to the fact that it is the way you hook up your headset, keyboard, and mouse
 
[quote name='jngx80']My only question and worry is how will they cool the system? Laptops(yes, I know they are more complicated than a ps2) generally get warm/hot after a few hours so how does sony prevent the new ps2 from overheating expecially if you're a gamer who likes to play 7 hours straight.[/quote]

Good question. I hope Sony didn't replace DREs with melting PS2s

And I think the manual top load feature is more than a fair trade-off for the extremely small size.
 
[quote name='David Reeves, Scea President']"We are confident that the combination of a new, more affordable price point, the great Christmas line-up and now this stunning new PlayStation 2 model will encourage a whole new generation of consumers to experience the fun of PlayStation".[/quote]

Looks like the new model MIGHT be cheaper, but will it be $99

Cause I still ain't buying until its $99
 
Regarding cooling, it looks like they changed the heatsink setup. Take a look inside the new model below.

scej30.jpg


scej29.jpg
 
[quote name='Kaijufan']I like the design, but I dont like the lack of hard drive. I guess you could use a USB external hard drive and plug it in to the front USB ports (if this new one even still has USB ports).[/quote]

As I said earlier, this would be much too slow unless they upgraded the USB controller to 2.0 capability. USB 1.1 is slow enoguh that you cannot use an external 1X DVD connected by USB to play movies since DVD playback requires a 9.8 megabit per second ceiling.

In other words, load data from a drive connected by the USB ports would be slower than reading it off the DVD.
 
In the motherboard picture (thanks, nixts!) note the use of the new integrated Emotion Engine and Graphic Synthesizer chips on a single die.

At the time the PS2 chipset was first created the state of the art was .25 micron manufacturing. There was .18 on the horizon but at the time Sony froze the feature set nobody had more than laboratory sample of .18 products. Sony had to deliver engineering samples and eventually developer kits using the .25 chips. Miroprocessor Report referred to these chips as having a die size the would make a PC engineer break out in a cold sweat. These ran very hot and had horrible yields, making for damned expensive chips. The hope was to have the .18 production lines up and running in time for the Japanese launch.

That didn't happen. Sony had to launch with .25 chips that made the first generation money pits with serious failure rates but Sony did what was necessary to get the product launched and had their .18 chips in time for the US launch.

The newest rev of the chipset is produced at .13 micorn aka 130 nanometers. This allows for both main chips to fit on a single die while running at lower voltage and producing a lot less waste heat. This may seem contrary to the growing heat problem people have become accustomed to in the PC realm but one thing is different. THe PC chips are trying to push the bleeding edge of performance, much as Sony was when the PS2 chipset began. The latest version doesn't need to perform any faster than those first .25 chips, thus they run quite cool. (I don't have exact numbers but I'm drawing on past instances of similar die shrinks where data was made public.) Thus the amount of active cooling hardware can be reduced and the board placed in a much tighter space.
 
The shots of the innards worry me for two reasons:

1. I can plainly see the ethernet port but I dont see the phone jack... hopfully it's just attached to a different part of the hardware that had to be removed for clearer pics.

2. it's obvious now that the PSone monitors wil NOT be usable with the PStwo.
 
These are shots of the Japanese system, as it was unveiled. However, Kutaragi said Sony was planning to include the modem port for the US spec system.
 
I'm still conflicted personally I mean I got a 5inch mobile monitor for a PSone for like 30 bucks cheaper than regular price so I can get a used system and play my old games on the go (a combo for under 100 bucks).

but now this new system comes along (even though I expected it eventually) and it means I could travel with the PS2 games as well as PS1 but I'd have to buy a whole new monitor to use it....damn. I guess I'll just go ahead and get the PSone (if I can find one) and maybe the price on the PStwo will drop below 149 when the PSP drops... damn I forgot about the PSP


I swear these bastards have ALL the bases covered for trying to get your money.
 
Look at it this way. In the time that has passed the cost per square inch of LCD has come down and the quality has increased. A comparable screen for the PStwo will likely have a lower SRP than the one you have started with. Alternately, for the same price it could be somewhat bigger.

It's very easy to not give Sony your money. You have to stop wanting things. Surrender all your desires. Kinda boring, though.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']Although it is still not confirmed what sony means by some "incompatible software" I am pretty sure they don't mean regular games. They are most likely refering to games that require the HD and maybe they are refering to stuff like hd loader or the zip drive software.

And as I predicted, I can already see a lot of gamers are miffed about the removal of HD support. I doubt sony is going to get away with selling this for more than $99

Regardless I ain't buying one until it is confirmed that this new version has NO DRE's and goes for $99[/quote]HD doesn't make one difference at in in the new designed PS2. Most of the people who wanted FFXI, already own it now, so there's basically no reason to include it. I do think the PS2 will be able to sell at that price because it still out sells Xbox and GC by a large margin in Japan and Europe, and still a little in the U.S. The reason Xbox has sold a little better as of late is due to the shortages of PS2 everywhere, making room for the new model.

DRE can happen in any game console. I'm starting to think you're nothing but a PS2 hater, when it's the best console by far on the market right now.
 
DRE can happen in any game console. I'm starting to think you're nothing but a PS2 hater, when it's the best console by far on the market right now.
Click to expand...

1. You come off like a huge fanboy.

2. It is an irrefutable fact that PS2 has a design flaw that causes DDE's because they went with a cheaper part.

Xbox has a similar problem with the Thompson drive, but its already been mostly if not completely phased out of new Xboxes. My launch day Xbox with a Thompson drive is just starting to show signs of eventual failure, after constant use. I've had 3 PS2's break down with DDE's in under 2 years with considerably lighter use. If you don't believe me, look it up.

Theres a reason why there was a class action lawsuit against Sony for this problem. Theres a reason why they'll fix DRE's now for free even if the console is out of warranty. Its their fault.
 
3 PS2's in my house and 1 more at my nephew's house who has had it since launch day and no of them has gotten DRE's. And how is he a fanboy by saying the PS2 is the best console in the market? Can you show me a link with xbox/gamecube selling more than PS2? I'm not a PS2 fanboy, i own it, gamecube and gameboy SP, but i AM an xbox hater!

Honestly, I prefer flip-top over the tray. I've had many problems with cd trays(pc) back then. And as for paying $99 for FFXI, thats totally wrong. You're actually getting the game for free, AND there are monthly fees as well.

I think someone mentioned this already but, if you look at the new ps2 and on the left side, it looks like there is a button to open it up. Maybe that spot will hold a HDD somehow, might have to leave it open.
 
You can say its the best selling, which is a fact, or you can say its the best, which is a biased opinion.

The PS2 DRE problem is well documented.


I'm not partial to any particular console since Sega is out of the market, I own a PS2 and an Xbox. IMO Xbox is the better machine but PS2 has more games I want. And for the record I want one of these PStwo's.
 
[quote name='Samurai T'][quote name='Scrubking']Although it is still not confirmed what sony means by some "incompatible software" I am pretty sure they don't mean regular games. They are most likely refering to games that require the HD and maybe they are refering to stuff like hd loader or the zip drive software.

And as I predicted, I can already see a lot of gamers are miffed about the removal of HD support. I doubt sony is going to get away with selling this for more than $99

Regardless I ain't buying one until it is confirmed that this new version has NO DRE's and goes for $99[/quote]HD doesn't make one difference at in in the new designed PS2. Most of the people who wanted FFXI, already own it now, so there's basically no reason to include it. I do think the PS2 will be able to sell at that price because it still out sells Xbox and GC by a large margin in Japan and Europe, and still a little in the U.S. The reason Xbox has sold a little better as of late is due to the shortages of PS2 everywhere, making room for the new model.

DRE can happen in any game console. I'm starting to think you're nothing but a PS2 hater, when it's the best console by far on the market right now.[/quote]

Riiight...IMO not only is the assumption that everyone who wanted FF XI already has it, wrong, but so is your reasoning for the XBox outselling the PS2 recently, well half-wrong. Don't you wonder how many people were waiting for FF XI to drop in price or maybe to see what the new expansion pak that just came out had to offer? Actuall if I was Square Enix I'd be a little miffed that I just poured some development resources into a game that Sony has abandoned for potential future customers. Not to mention if someone who plays FF XI does get a DRE (and by the way it may happen to all consoles but it plagues the PS2 far and away the most of all of them), they won't be able to buy a new PS2, instead they'll have to buy an used one. Which basically comes down to Sony losing a few system sales. And if they biy the new one Sony will be missing out on the subscription fees for SOE. Plus don't forget about future games that were supposed to make use of the drive, like GT 4. Also, there's the people who thought they could use it as a memory source too, but now they are screwed as well. I'm sure Sony doesn't care, but to say it doesn't make a difference is kinda out there, it certainly makes a difference to me and a lot of other that bought the HDD.

As for the Xbox outselling PS2 as of late, part of it may have to do with a shortage of PS2s (though it's not like I walk into a store and they are ever out, but there are fewer on the shelves). I also think it has to do with Xbox actually having some of the biggest system sellers coming out now and for the upcoming holiday season. Sony has no system selling games coming except maybe GT 4, which may end up not even being as good as advertised and from previews i've read may end up being beat out by Forza Motorsport. There's also MGS 3, but some people didn't enjoy the last game as much and are a bit hesitant to buy the new one. Plus releasing both games in the same week and directly in the wake of Halo 2 wasn't exactly great marketing IMO. And in the end niether one is hyped nearly as much Halo 2 or Fable, and as much as I hate to admit sometimes, hype is usually what will sell games and systems.
 
I need the space, so if it drops to 99 It will be in my home, and Game informer in the oct issue says "some in the industry are predicting price drops this holiday season for consoles" they go onto say that gamecube proably will not drop price, and microsoft does not want to lose any more money on the xbox so sony might be undercutting them this holiday season.
 
EBgames.com also sent out an email newsletter this morning saying the price is $150.

I don't expect this to change until Sony is assured the earlier model is no longer in the retail channel. They really don't want a situation where they have retailers complaining they cannot move the older inventory unless they get writedown credits.

This machine will get down to $100 eventually but Sony has little motivation to do this before the holiday season is completed. They have the various expenses for developing and bringing to market the new model to cover before they can start pricing it purely on its manufacturing cost. E3 would likely be a good time for the $100 price announcement.

I expect I'll get one eventually as a traveling spare, especially since my launch PS2 won't handle DVD+/-R discs.
 
One thing occurs to me about the lack of HDD support. Was the US release of the HDD Kit done with full knowledge it would not have support from future PS2 models? The HDD Kit was released on March 23 of this year. The design and feature set of the PStwo had to be frozen several months ago for it to be in mass production now.

How long have third party publishers been aware of the lack of future support? Has this played a role in their own lack of interest in supporting the drive?
 
For the people who wanted a better shot of the back and another comparison shot, here are some new pics of the Japanese model.



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Hmmm....HDD Support....well we'll have to see what the deal is on the final design for US. Alot can happen in a short time (ala Nintendo DS E3 vs Nintendo DS Release Version).

There are pics I've seen out there where the bottom of the machine has notches for attaching something and there is a mounting screw on the back. I've yet to see a picture of the bottom of the Circuit Board....so ya never know....there may be an external adapter to be released (ala Gameboy Adapter for GC)

I wouldn't be surprised if SONY eradicated the HD support altogether because it seems SONY has NO WAY of combatting HD LOADER programs. Though what about SOCOM II Downloadable content???

So for all of you with HD Loader and a HD installed.....Consider yourself one of the lucky ones.

I have 3 PS2s and was sick of lugging all my games around......an installed HDD in each has been a GODSEND.....
 
I've had my PS2 almost since launch (or maybe it was that month ... I can't remember), and I've never had a DRE. Either way, my two stepbrothers have gone through at least 4 PS2's between them, but I hardly ever play mine, so that's the reason.

The point to be made about saving space, though, is this: Since it's a top loading console now, you now can't put say ... a GameCube, Dreamcast, SNES, etc. on top of your PS2. This, in my opinion, wastes even more space. Counterpoints?
 
[quote name='snipegod']I've had my PS2 almost since launch (or maybe it was that month ... I can't remember), and I've never had a DRE. Either way, my two stepbrothers have gone through at least 4 PS2's between them, but I hardly ever play mine, so that's the reason.

The point to be made about saving space, though, is this: Since it's a top loading console now, you now can't put say ... a GameCube, Dreamcast, SNES, etc. on top of your PS2. This, in my opinion, wastes even more space. Counterpoints?[/quote]

If people in your family are in the habit of stacking game systems on top of each other then the failure rate is no mystery.
 
[quote name='epobirs']One thing occurs to me about the lack of HDD support. Was the US release of the HDD Kit done with full knowledge it would not have support from future PS2 models? The HDD Kit was released on March 23 of this year. The design and feature set of the PStwo had to be frozen several months ago for it to be in mass production now.

How long have third party publishers been aware of the lack of future support? Has this played a role in their own lack of interest in supporting the drive?[/quote]

Add-ons just don't fly so well. HDD usage (through developers) never would have reached critical mass regardless.
 
This is clearly a competitive move to position Sony for the last kick in this generation. They will be able sell these babies for $100 very soon and probably $75 (50?) in 2 years without losing cash. This way Sony laps up the last bit of money in the market as we phase out.

Keep in mind that a huge segment of the population (esp. poorer people buying the sys with young kids in mind) cannot jump on the bandwagon for the newer systems.

There are still many, many PS1s and N64s in use out there.

I don't think the HDLoader had much to do with this . . . this is simple economics. The hard drive was only released because Sony wanted to keep a promise . . . not to make money.
 
I read something on Penny Arcade awhile where they'd basically summed it up like this:

Anyway, I wish that I had just come right out immediately and said what I was thinking, which is to say that there's no Goddamn way a hard drive is going to fit in the new system. Well, now we've got verification that this is the case. The reasoning is great, too: "Consumers who want and use the Hard Disk Drive are typically the more 'hard core' gamers, and with more than 27 million Playstation 2 units already sold in North America, we feel that a majority of those HDD interested consumers already have their Playstation 2 units." For me, it's not that I'm worried that I won't be able to get one. What I'd be worried about is developer reticence to incorporate the add-on as a real part of the system and utilize its functionality, marginalizing my investment.
Click to expand...

I can understand what what sony's saying. It's a little sad but they just dont see it as being viable anymore and it's because they waited so long to push the product for the US market which lessened the overall possible interest. They screwed up but hey the only people who are really screwed over are the people who didn't buy the PS2 when they had a chance and are forced to get a PStwo and cant used the games that actually DO have the functionality from japan (where the HDD had better market saturation) that may not be edited out for the US later. There may not be alot more games to use it but the games that do come out (because they may have already been in production) will still work on either system.

Heck maybe the price on unsold HDDs will drop as a result.
 
[quote name='doubledown']I'll keep my BIG-ASS XBOX :) I gave my PS2 to my brother anyways.....[/quote]
im in the same boat i gave my ps2 to my sister, but thug1 and thug 2 online sort of make me wanna have a ps2 again.
 
[quote name='Sartori'][quote name='epobirs']One thing occurs to me about the lack of HDD support. Was the US release of the HDD Kit done with full knowledge it would not have support from future PS2 models? The HDD Kit was released on March 23 of this year. The design and feature set of the PStwo had to be frozen several months ago for it to be in mass production now.

How long have third party publishers been aware of the lack of future support? Has this played a role in their own lack of interest in supporting the drive?[/quote]

Add-ons just don't fly so well. HDD usage (through developers) never would have reached critical mass regardless.[/quote]

Well-executed, reasonably priced add-ons do quite well. If Sony had offered the hard drive within a year of launch at a more reasonable price (as in not forcing non-MMORPG plays to buy one) it would have been widely supported by many developers. HDLoader has made amply clear the benefits are quite major but you have to do it in a way that developers believe it will be perceived as a major plus by consumers.
 
.... looking at the pictures of the back of the system it's clear to me now that there's no 56k support at all. it's only got the ethernet (unless the design has changed since then), it makes me sad but at the same time I've always used internet connection sharing to get the PS2 online so I guess I wont really miss it...

But I do remember a while back that PS2 did support a few USB 56k modems. Also thinking about it I wonder if there isnt a way to use the ethernet port to connect to an external HD. I'm not suggesting that sony will build an external case anymore though, it's just not feasable for them to do it.

Keep in mind that aside from FF11 most all use od the HDD is optional, which means there's nothing to stop companies from putting HDD options into games, especially since japan has had the HDs longer than we have which would give japanese develoeprs like Capcom and Konami a better incentive to do it as opposed to a developer like EA who at this point would just stop caring.
 
Lots of people seemed to mention the HDLoader and piracy typ ethings for being the reason they removed the HDD support. But by making it a flip top loading version, didn't they just make it alot easier to bypass their region lockouts and stuff with something like swap magic? Is this correct or am I missing something?
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']Lots of people seemed to mention the HDLoader and piracy typ ethings for being the reason they removed the HDD support. But by making it a flip top loading version, didn't they just make it alot easier to bypass their region lockouts and stuff with something like swap magic? Is this correct or am I missing something?[/quote]

I am kind of hoping it does. I would like to play some import games, but cannot bring myself to buy a Japanese PS2.
 
I agree with Duo. it might be a lot easier to play imports on now.

I doubt the HDloader had anything to do with the design, heck sony was probably designing the thing long before and laughed to themselves going "man are the HDloader people gonna be pissed when they see this!"
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback'][quote name='Duo_Maxwell']Lots of people seemed to mention the HDLoader and piracy typ ethings for being the reason they removed the HDD support. But by making it a flip top loading version, didn't they just make it alot easier to bypass their region lockouts and stuff with something like swap magic? Is this correct or am I missing something?[/quote]

I am kind of hoping it does. I would like to play some import games, but cannot bring myself to buy a Japanese PS2.[/quote]

Same here, if this indeed makes it easier to use something like swap magic then I may actually consider picking it up when it drops to about $100 or so.
 
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