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Nintendo finally admitting they aren't in a good place.
- Thread starter jkam
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bonesawisready
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Meh. I think at this point they have to get the Wii U down to $199, invest more in marketing, and hope Kart/Smash/DKC/Bayo/ZeldaWarriors are hits. I don't know if they redesign the Wii U to cut costs and somehow keep the Game Pad (obviously Game Pad would have to become cheaper to make) to get down to $199 or if they just stop shipping Game Pads and give out Pro Controllers with the system to get it to $199.
They'd rather take the PR hit of dropping the Game Pad or making it optional because if they keep trying to sell the Wii U at $299 or so no one will buy it post-holidays. They'll be losing money on something that can't get enough software sales to break even. Heck, Nintendo can't even be breaking even on most of their first party software that isn't selling 1 million +. So you either bite the bullet, take $100 off your console by axing the Game Pad, sell it for $199 at a small profit and start making money even with bad sales potentially or keep it at a high price, lose money and also lose that $8 billion cash pile they've piled up with the Wii/DS.
Personally I say drop the Game Pad if it has to be done. $199 Wii U around DKC or MK8 with a brand new Player's Choice of $20 titles like Zombi U, Lego City, Pikmin, etc could get some americans on board.
I think the lesson they've learned from this is that their next home console has to ditch BC and ditch PowerPC. Use off the shelf PC parts that are slightly modified, court third parties crazy instead of waiting for them to come to you.
They'd rather take the PR hit of dropping the Game Pad or making it optional because if they keep trying to sell the Wii U at $299 or so no one will buy it post-holidays. They'll be losing money on something that can't get enough software sales to break even. Heck, Nintendo can't even be breaking even on most of their first party software that isn't selling 1 million +. So you either bite the bullet, take $100 off your console by axing the Game Pad, sell it for $199 at a small profit and start making money even with bad sales potentially or keep it at a high price, lose money and also lose that $8 billion cash pile they've piled up with the Wii/DS.
Personally I say drop the Game Pad if it has to be done. $199 Wii U around DKC or MK8 with a brand new Player's Choice of $20 titles like Zombi U, Lego City, Pikmin, etc could get some americans on board.
I think the lesson they've learned from this is that their next home console has to ditch BC and ditch PowerPC. Use off the shelf PC parts that are slightly modified, court third parties crazy instead of waiting for them to come to you.
i agree, start ditching the tablet, and have a price drop maybe to $249.99 msrp, and $199.99 starting black friday/ special holiday sale.
RyuTheBurninator
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i say a redesign would be great. how this for an idea? add a game card slot to the gamepad so you can play your 3ds/ds games on your tv. the fuction of the touch pad would be used like the bottom screen of the 3ds/DS
call the new peripheral the Wiids.
call the new peripheral the Wiids.
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My thoughts exactly. A 3DS player will add a little life to the Wii U. There is really no reason NOT to do this. If they stay in the home console race, next time they need to stop trying to be so gimmicky. Have a normal console that has ONE controller to use on all of the games. And make up with the third party developers.
soonersfan60
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They could possibly use 3DS connectivity in place of the game pad, but they can't ditch the game pad or else they would be no different than PS3 and 360.
CaseyRyback
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Maybe this will wake them up to the idea that they need to focus their efforts on the internet.
Why Mario 3d world doesn't have online coop is beyond me.
Why Mario 3d world doesn't have online coop is beyond me.
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Necrozilla
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Here is the picture for 2011, with the 2010 totals shown in shadow for reference.
Gamasutra - NPD: Behind the numbers of 2011 (Jan/17/2012)
Price drops will only delay the inevitable fact: Nintendo's intentionally cheap (not poor) to compete/support a true HD console let alone the Wii U in living rooms... Wii U's games are unabashedly HD rehashes that were just on Wii and even 3DS (see 3D Land and 3D World) whose [Wii] hardware sales plateaued once the first wave of tablets flooded the market to become the new tech fad while Kinect scooped up the fitness gurus that first bought-in to Wii Sports (at least half of Wii's potential market lost).
• iPad (gen 1) released: Apr/3/2010
• Kinect released: Nov/4/2010
Wii U's last hope to mirror GameCube's install base (22m) was Mario Kart 8... but Angry Birds GO! nailed that coffin shut. Nintendo needed a "Skylanders" clone (featuring Nintendo's cast) instead of 3D World.
3DS is battling "hand-me-down" smartphones with "good enough" $1/freemium apps. But this can be exploited by appealing to parents that don't want fragile tech around their elementary kids & marketing confessionals of parents with $1,000 IAP bills by launching a brand new, durable pocket-size handheld by 2016 (latest) to replace both Wii U and 3DS (2DS has shown Nintendo's commitment to 3D and its lack of pay-off [added development time] for them).
Nintendo's the billionaire that eats Ramen noodles and wears the same shoes for 20 years. Good for investors, but I fail to see why gamers defend "Sim-lish" speech in every
game they barely change - they need higher production values if they want to capture the competitor's console audience now that they're out of gimmicks and their next platform needs multi-touch (no stylus). Focusing on one platform (handheld) should help Nintendo cope with true HD game budgets and the tech is here (see also 'FaceRig') to serve both fans equally (line counters can burn in a fireball).
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http://www.cheapassgamer.com/topic/275608-wii-u-general-discussion-thread/page-109
We've had some pretty good discussion here since the news came out yesterday. I'll just link it rather than retyping up my thoughts in super detail again.
But in short, I don't think it's super doom and gloom for Nintendo as a whole. But the Wii U is definitely pretty much dead. But there's not much they can do but ride it out the best they can for at least another couple years while going back to the drawing board for what to do next. They also need to get into mobile gaming and make some casual, touch screen games featuring their characters to open a new revenue stream and help mitigate the Wii U losses.
If they're insistent on sticking in the home console business I think next go around they should pursue some console/portable hybrid so they don't have their development teams split across two platforms. Get all their games on one device, and that's a solid game library. And they "play all your games anywhere" feature is attractive (though not unique as Sony will keep improving remote play as well). They have to keep cost down though, and launch at no more than $250 as the Wii U has shown that people don't want to pay top dollar for Nintendo hardware.
Though really I think they'd be better off going third party, or partnering with Sony, for their home console games and just focusing on portables until that market dries up. I don't see that happening though. They've been around for well over 100 years and have ridden out tough spells before so they'll probably keep trying.
We've had some pretty good discussion here since the news came out yesterday. I'll just link it rather than retyping up my thoughts in super detail again.
But in short, I don't think it's super doom and gloom for Nintendo as a whole. But the Wii U is definitely pretty much dead. But there's not much they can do but ride it out the best they can for at least another couple years while going back to the drawing board for what to do next. They also need to get into mobile gaming and make some casual, touch screen games featuring their characters to open a new revenue stream and help mitigate the Wii U losses.
If they're insistent on sticking in the home console business I think next go around they should pursue some console/portable hybrid so they don't have their development teams split across two platforms. Get all their games on one device, and that's a solid game library. And they "play all your games anywhere" feature is attractive (though not unique as Sony will keep improving remote play as well). They have to keep cost down though, and launch at no more than $250 as the Wii U has shown that people don't want to pay top dollar for Nintendo hardware.
Though really I think they'd be better off going third party, or partnering with Sony, for their home console games and just focusing on portables until that market dries up. I don't see that happening though. They've been around for well over 100 years and have ridden out tough spells before so they'll probably keep trying.
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^ I liked the idea someone mentioned of having a revised tablet controller that had a slot of 3DS game carts so you could play them on the TV.
In fact I don't know why they don't make the tablet controller the ENTIRE system and kind of like the chromecast you can have a dongle for your TV if you want to cast the image from the tablet screen to the big screen.
I mean that hardware isn't that impressive and the tablet controller is big enough I think they could find a way to shrink the insides of the Wii U to fit inside the tablet... eventually.
Obviously it wouldn't have an optical drive but you could either push digital games really hard or put all games or media like SD Cards.
In fact I don't know why they don't make the tablet controller the ENTIRE system and kind of like the chromecast you can have a dongle for your TV if you want to cast the image from the tablet screen to the big screen.
I mean that hardware isn't that impressive and the tablet controller is big enough I think they could find a way to shrink the insides of the Wii U to fit inside the tablet... eventually.
Obviously it wouldn't have an optical drive but you could either push digital games really hard or put all games or media like SD Cards.
I do think that dongle type systems will be what they go for next time. They need to get all their development teams working on one platform.
The 3DS and Wii U together have a solid library. Get to one platform the next go around, and that's what type of game library we'd be looking at. And that would be worth owning, even if third party support was still poor.
As for a 3DS slot, I wouldn't mind it--but 3DS games are pretty low res so they'd probably look terrible blown up on a big HDTV given how pixelated some are already.
The 3DS and Wii U together have a solid library. Get to one platform the next go around, and that's what type of game library we'd be looking at. And that would be worth owning, even if third party support was still poor.
As for a 3DS slot, I wouldn't mind it--but 3DS games are pretty low res so they'd probably look terrible blown up on a big HDTV given how pixelated some are already.
At this point, Nintendo is too late for this generation at least. They'd forever be playing catchup with a newer console and have burned too many bridges with gamers/developers for anyone to really embrace one. They still own the portable market. . .overseas, but stateside the big N has lost its marketshare. I know for me Sony fulfills all my home console needs but if Nintendo were to resurface with a new gameplan some years down the line, I might sit up and see where it goes.
Otherwise, the Wii brand is dead to me and always has been. Gamecube was really the beginning of the end for me.
Otherwise, the Wii brand is dead to me and always has been. Gamecube was really the beginning of the end for me.
Ha... I find it laughable that it took them this long to admit it. The Wii U just seemed like a bad idea from day one.
I still want one, since Nintendo always puts out a few gems every now and then, but given how much I regretted paying $250 for the Wii, I'm probably not gonna wait until the Wii U is on clearance.
I still want one, since Nintendo always puts out a few gems every now and then, but given how much I regretted paying $250 for the Wii, I'm probably not gonna wait until the Wii U is on clearance.
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Jesus_S_Preston
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Pretty sad to see Nintendo having such failure with the Wii U when it's the first time in years they've been putting out steady, solid content and innovating in a way that is actually beneficial to the industry.
cashgunschaos
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Nintendo isn't known for admitting they're wrong... That attitude has actually helped trump tough systems (save for virtual boy) but they always have something up their sleeve.... Who knows... I will admit it is a ton of fun to speculate... This is the essence of what loving the industry is all about. I'm gonna take it in another direction... Maybe something similar to virtual boy, with technology that finally has caught up to what they were trying to do so long ago! It's just crazy enough to work!
codenamelenny
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To me the biggest issue seems to be marketing, either people know about the wii u and hate nintendo after the success of the wii or there is the people who don't know what the Wii U exactly is.
Maybe I just have Nintendo goggles on but I love my Wii U and think it has a good lineup of games. Only problem is that they are mostly Nintendo games, essentially no 3rd party support.
Maybe I just have Nintendo goggles on but I love my Wii U and think it has a good lineup of games. Only problem is that they are mostly Nintendo games, essentially no 3rd party support.
Indiana
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Price drop! The Wii U didn't not do anything new so the number of buyers is going to be small. Nintendo hasn't figured this out yet and the pricing of their console is too close to the PS4 price to have any sales at this point.
$199 and pack in a Mario or Luigi game if you want to move some units.
I think the first issue was with the GameCube it was a good console but the amount of 3rd party support was disappointing. Nintendo never recovered from this. The Wii was a super hit with the gimmick controls but I bet the number of games attached to a console is very small compared to Xbox 360 and PS3.
$199 and pack in a Mario or Luigi game if you want to move some units.
I think the first issue was with the GameCube it was a good console but the amount of 3rd party support was disappointing. Nintendo never recovered from this. The Wii was a super hit with the gimmick controls but I bet the number of games attached to a console is very small compared to Xbox 360 and PS3.
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Motion controls are stupid for hardcore gamers like us but you would be hard pressed to find more intuitive controls for casual/non gamers. When you have friends over at the house good luck getting folks to use a dual stick controller. Yet everyone can easily pick up a Wii mote and play Mario Kart, Mario or any other first party Nintendo game.
Bundlebandits
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It would be a shame if Nintendo would go down the same way as Sega! although playing mario kart on a ps4 would be cool 
Indiana
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My fear would be Nintendo keeps making handhelds quits making consoles and you can only get Mario and Zelda games on the handhelds.It would be a shame if Nintendo would go down the same way as Sega! although playing mario kart on a ps4 would be cool
Bundlebandits
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Yes! but I do not know if their handhelds are going to be the next best thing in the future, it seems as if they are a bit lost.
codenamelenny
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http://m.joystiq.com/2014/01/20/iwata-clarifies-nintendo-is-not-done-with-consoles/?post=1&icid=joystiq_wii-u_art
So they had to put out a statement saying they aren't going full blown ios developers. They are still in the console business.
So they had to put out a statement saying they aren't going full blown ios developers. They are still in the console business.
Necrozilla
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Nintendo needs an Android/iOS app for Mii creation/interaction and registering accounts on their Nintendo Network... like before the Wii U 'ing launched in 2012.
'ing launched in 2012.
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If this doesn't confirm my suspcions of them not releasing a successor to the Wii U, nothing will. It's 2014 and it's to the point now they can't get away with their exclusives (Mario, Wii exclusives, Pokemon) carrying their weak consoles anymore. It's the only reason anyone has given their products the time of day and now their flagships are starting to not garner the attention and sales like they used to. Do not misunderstand, Mario, Pokemon, and the like are still solid hits (just look at the latter's X and Y sales for 3DS) but consumers are starting to get tired of buying Nintendo's lackluster consoles for some of their games.
The Wii U might get a newer version of itself over time but I don't think Nintendo will pour anymore money into development of a next-gen console to succeed it. I won't say this as fact as I don't know the statistics but I imagine their handheld market sells better than their consoles so I predict they will eventually submit to this and put more focus on it. The biggest draw besides Nintendo's exclusive game series is the motion sensing the Wii and Wii U brought and it's a fad that's dying out. Like other gaming fads, it was huge for them for awhile but eventually people don't care. Once that ship sails the only thing left for them are Nintendo-only games and that won't keep their boat afloat forever.
The Wii U might get a newer version of itself over time but I don't think Nintendo will pour anymore money into development of a next-gen console to succeed it. I won't say this as fact as I don't know the statistics but I imagine their handheld market sells better than their consoles so I predict they will eventually submit to this and put more focus on it. The biggest draw besides Nintendo's exclusive game series is the motion sensing the Wii and Wii U brought and it's a fad that's dying out. Like other gaming fads, it was huge for them for awhile but eventually people don't care. Once that ship sails the only thing left for them are Nintendo-only games and that won't keep their boat afloat forever.
Billytwoshoes
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A year ago I would of disagreed with this statement, supporting the inclusion of the gamepad to ensure it's full support (as any peripheral that isn't bundled in some way is typically doomed to failure) and hopefully bring some more innovation to its IPs.
Unfortunately with the major franchises released utilizing the gamepad with tepid results (Pikmin, SM3DW, and kinda-sorta Zelda), they haven't proved they can innovate enough. Not saying that having an extra map / inventory screen, or off TV game-play isn't interesting to me (because it is still a strong selling point to me personally), it's just not hitting the masses like they hoped.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like Nintendo Land so far has made the most of the gamepad (especially with the asymmetrical multiplayer), and the only franchise left that I have hopes for offering some truly unique gameplay would be the next Metroid. I don't see SSB or MK offering anything other than a "neat" feature with the touchscreen / second screen.
I would still like to see the pad used uniquely, toss in a good RTS game, or even a Fire Emblem (or a SRPG in the Paper Mario universe? C'mon Intelligent Systems!) that would make better use of a Map / Stat screen feature (since those are usually cluttered with information otherwise).
And secondly, I've always been supportive of the Wii HD name, I think it would get the point across much more effectively.
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Even if the WiiU isn't selling to the masses, I'm extremely happy with the console. I love the gamepad for the subtle ways it helps traditional games and for the great things it does for local multiplayer games. And off-tv play is a phenomenal thing to have in my household. Even the game lineup has been pretty great for someone with my tastes. So as long as this continues, I'm happy it is what it is even if the system doesn't sell all that well because Nintendo is gonna be fine either way.
I do wish for the sake of attracting more developers though that they had named it something else because I feel like the confusing name is something that negatively impacted sales. I think Wii HD might have been better, but it still sounds kind of like an iteration instead of a successor. Wii 2 would have been unimaginative, but much more effective IMO if they wanted to stick with the Wii name.
I do wish for the sake of attracting more developers though that they had named it something else because I feel like the confusing name is something that negatively impacted sales. I think Wii HD might have been better, but it still sounds kind of like an iteration instead of a successor. Wii 2 would have been unimaginative, but much more effective IMO if they wanted to stick with the Wii name.
Bradley129
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You guys do realize that nintendo has more money than Sony right? There doing just fine.
Having money is not the same as being a stable business. Nintendo has always had a treasure chest of money. Even during the dismal GC days, they had ~$6 billion in cash and they've never had any major debt to this day (AFAIK).
I'm not saying they're gonna go anywhere anytime soon but no matter how much money they have, they still need stable stream of revenues to continue into the long run. Nobody knows Nintendo better than Nintendo, and even they're not happy with their situation. That should speak volumes.
Indiana
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The problem is it's looking like the Wii U may sell less than the Gamecube. With the amazing success of the Wii I think Nintendo thought they were in a good place. Unfortunately casual gamers do not buy many games and they are now looking at the Wii and saying I don't play that very much so why buy a new Wii U.
Sam_Fisher
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They need to have an actual online system in place. The Wii friends codes were just stupid. I don't know how the Wii U works but I'm assuming not that much better. It should be more like XBLA, PSN, Steam, etc.
Looks like Link will have to come save the day. whatever happened to the glory days of Nintendo?
Looks like Link will have to come save the day. whatever happened to the glory days of Nintendo?
http://o.canada.com/technology/gaming/nintendo-could-prevent-a-financial-game-over-with-these-3-strategies/
Nintendo has over $5 billion in cash reserves and no debt. They're projecting a loss of $240 million from 2013 which means they could post the same amount of losses every year for the next 20 years before they've depleted their cash reserves. Plenty of money doesn't even begin to describe Nintendo's situation...
Nintendo president taking 50% paycut, as wii-u sale struggles.
http://www.vg247.com/2014/01/29/nintendo-iwata-will-take-50-pay-cut-following-financial-report/
http://www.vg247.com/2014/01/29/nintendo-iwata-will-take-50-pay-cut-following-financial-report/
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Bradley129
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[quote name="Sam_Fisher" post="11483804" timestamp="1391033127"]They need to have an actual online system in place. The Wii friends codes were just stupid. I don't know how the Wii U works but I'm assuming not that much better. It should be more like XBLA, PSN, Steam, etc.
Looks like Link will have to come save the day. whatever happened to the glory days of Nintendo?[/quote]the Wii u uses Nintendo ids.... Please check your facts.
Looks like Link will have to come save the day. whatever happened to the glory days of Nintendo?[/quote]the Wii u uses Nintendo ids.... Please check your facts.
MrGranger
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Seems to get worse today, and a bit weird. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/31/technology/nintendo-chief-announces-foray-into-health-care.html?_r=0
No need for Obamacare now, we've got Nintendo.
"3DS hand-held devices languished" if languished means selling like wildfire. At least here the 3DS saw a spike this holiday season.
No need for Obamacare now, we've got Nintendo.
"3DS hand-held devices languished" if languished means selling like wildfire. At least here the 3DS saw a spike this holiday season.
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You're literally just repeating what I said but ignored my point completely.
My point wasn't that Nintendo is going away any time soon, my point is that no company wants to operate at a annual deficits in the long run. I wasn't disagreeing with you about Nintendo have a ton of money.
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bread's done