NSA has a database of our phone calls

I love how our "War on _____s" always has 2 end results, eroded civil liberties and never getting rid of whatever the "war" was declared on. War on alcohol, war on drugs, war on terror, different nouns, same outcomes...
 
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2006/05/11/bushs-approval-ratings/

29%, and the fallout hasn't even really started yet.

In minor news, my governor (Ernie Fletcher) was indicted today on misdemeanor charges that he hired (and more importantly, fired) on political alliance rather than qualifications. Wonder who he learned that from?

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060511/NEWS01/60511008

Now I live in a state with an indicted governor and work in a state with a governor convicted while in office. Both Republicans.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2006/05/11/bushs-approval-ratings/

29%, and the fallout hasn't even really started yet.

In minor news, my governor (Ernie Fletcher) was indicted today on misdemeanor charges that he hired (and more importantly, fired) on political alliance rather than qualifications. Wonder who he learned that from?

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060511/NEWS01/60511008

Now I live in a state with an indicted governor and work in a state with a governor convicted while in office. Both Republicans.[/QUOTE]

No one seemed to mind about the wiretaps earlier, assumingly because it didn't involve them. This one might get people's panties in a bunch and therefore cause that approval rating to go even lower.

Seriously though, hate him or not, you have to wonder how 1 president can go from the highest approval rating of all time to one of the lowest...
 
I think it's time for another attack.

pretzel2zj.jpg
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']No one seemed to mind about the wiretaps earlier, assumingly because it didn't involve them. This one might get people's panties in a bunch and therefore cause that approval rating to go even lower.

Seriously though, hate him or not, you have to wonder how 1 president can go from the highest approval rating of all time to one of the lowest...[/QUOTE]

Me wonder? Not at all. The only thing that's surprising is how easily people forgot his campaign promises of 2000. Outside of $300 checks, he ran on a platform of transparency in government (and presumably smaller government, given that he claimed to be a conservative), and he also ran as a "compassionate conservative." I don't wonder shit. He's a dreadful president, and the greatest evidence of that is the amazing intellectual acrobatics and cognitive dissonance repairing that those who still support this administration have to go to to continue to support him and rationalize the administration's actions.

If I had any drawing skills at all, I'd become infamous by drawing a political cartoon of emaciated people, shoeless and in striped outfits, behind a tall brick wall covered with razor wire (conjuring images of Belsen, in the event that using words to describe a panel aren't working so well, as they rarely do). Those emaciated souls, of course, would be describing how Bush really has their best interests in mind and merely wants to protect us from terrorists. It's be a quick hire/quick fire kinda thing. Then again, I can't draw for shit, so alas, it's a pipe dream.

The only thing that surprises me in the slightest is that his approval rating has fallen to where it is. I'd always assumed that the voting public is made up of a large bloc of moderate constituents who hate both parties equally, but vote for the one who is the most contemporarily resonant (currently the Democrats, but more or less the Republicans, with few exceptions, since Carter). Then you have the left and right blocs, whose allegiances to their political parties resembles peoples' blind faith and allegiances to their favorite sports franchises; in short, they follow everything they do with the mindset that "their side" has it all right and the "away team" is inherently evil and has it all wrong. I'd say that roughly 20-25% of the population feels that way for the right, and marginally less feel that way for the left (thus you have the wavering majority who reluctantly goes to one side every 2-4 years). At any rate, I can't see it getting any lower than 25% under any circumstances, as there are some people who won't express dislike for anything Bush does, no matter how contrary it may be to their political preferences (freedom, small government, unobtrusiveness in day-to-day affairs, and so on).
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Me wonder? Not at all. The only thing that's surprising is how easily people forgot his campaign promises of 2000. Outside of $300 checks, he ran on a platform of transparency in government (and presumably smaller government, given that he claimed to be a conservative), and he also ran as a "compassionate conservative." I don't wonder shit. He's a dreadful president, and the greatest evidence of that is the amazing intellectual acrobatics and cognitive dissonance repairing that those who still support this administration have to go to to continue to support him and rationalize the administration's actions.

If I had any drawing skills at all, I'd become infamous by drawing a political cartoon of emaciated people, shoeless and in striped outfits, behind a tall brick wall covered with razor wire (conjuring images of Belsen, in the event that using words to describe a panel aren't working so well, as they rarely do). Those emaciated souls, of course, would be describing how Bush really has their best interests in mind and merely wants to protect us from terrorists. It's be a quick hire/quick fire kinda thing. Then again, I can't draw for shit, so alas, it's a pipe dream.

The only thing that surprises me in the slightest is that his approval rating has fallen to where it is. I'd always assumed that the voting public is made up of a large bloc of moderate constituents who hate both parties equally, but vote for the one who is the most contemporarily resonant (currently the Democrats, but more or less the Republicans, with few exceptions, since Carter). Then you have the left and right blocs, whose allegiances to their political parties resembles peoples' blind faith and allegiances to their favorite sports franchises; in short, they follow everything they do with the mindset that "their side" has it all right and the "away team" is inherently evil and has it all wrong. I'd say that roughly 20-25% of the population feels that way for the right, and marginally less feel that way for the left (thus you have the wavering majority who reluctantly goes to one side every 2-4 years). At any rate, I can't see it getting any lower than 25% under any circumstances, as there are some people who won't express dislike for anything Bush does, no matter how contrary it may be to their political preferences (freedom, small government, unobtrusiveness in day-to-day affairs, and so on).[/QUOTE]

You make a good point. He's pretty much flipped a 180 (as much as you can without switching parties anyway) since he ran for president originally.

Personally, I'm hoping for sub-20 approval rating numbers but you're probably right, there's too many blind faith political followers out there for it to get too low.
 
So now that Dubya can track all of our phone records, that means we'll be able to capture Osama, right? What a sad day in America when its citizens just let the federal government erode more of their liberties. Before you know it, myke, alonzo, mslut, dennis_t, MBE, cheese, etc. will all be political prisoners. Websites like Rawstory will get shut down. 1984 has apparently becoming an instruction manual. Call me paranoid, but I never even thought we'd get to this point.

Too bad we can't arrest Dubya for breaking his oath to "uphold and defend the constitution of the united states of america".
 
[quote name='evanft']I bet they know whether Chris Daughtry was really voted off American Idol last week.[/QUOTE]


who holds back the electric car?
who makes Steve Gutenberg a star.....?
 
[quote name='PKRipp3r']who holds back the electric car?
who makes Steve Gutenberg a star.....?[/quote]

Stonecutters?

:lol:

Took me a bit to recognize that quote.
 
As long as i can bring my cartooning supplies and my 360 to prison, I'm down.

PS - Crooks and Liars has some choice clips today if you get the chance, the Scarborogh one has me tickled almost as much as the MGS4 extended trailer, but not as much as the Mass Effect stuff.

PPS - Tom Delay officially resigned today, effective June 9th.
 
[quote name='Cheese']As long as i can bring my cartooning supplies and my 360 to prison, I'm down.

PS - Crooks and Liars has some choice clips today if you get the chance, the Scarborogh one has me tickled almost as much as the MGS4 extended trailer, but not as much as the Mass Effect stuff.

PPS - Tom Delay officially resigned today, effective June 9th.[/QUOTE]

Wow, it has begun. I'm not one to usually get overly dramatic about this type of stuff but he's right, we should be scared. What pisses me off about that statement is that (and yes this is inspiration from V for Vendetta) we should never have to fear our government.

It should be a representation of us yet it has become something altogether different lately. It is trying to tell us what we should think instead of the other way around. Think about the Ports Deal i bit ago. Bush was trying to tell everyone, including his own party, that this was a good idea and that we should do it. Now it seems to be the same way with immigration.

What is getting to be scary about some of these situations is that private companies seem to be more than willing to go along with this garbage. These telephone companies willingly handed over our phone records, seemingly without any concern whatsoever. At least Google fought the government from getting records on what we search for but in the end they lost anyway.

The government needs to stop thinking everyone is guilty of terrorism and get their damn noses out of our business.

For those of you who think this is just an innocuous list of phone numbers let me give you a little situation ("let's play let's pretend" is a phrase one of my professors used to use). You have a friend who has a roommate who isn't exactly on the stright and narrow as far as the law goes. This roommate is being investigated for selling drugs and as part of that, without a warrant, the government decides to go ahead and delve into the phone records. They see your number is frequently calling this person's number. Now, you know its to chat with your friend but the government might get the bright idea that you're purchasing drugs from the roommate. They start to do some surveilence on you and see you frequently picking up small packages from the post office. You know that its because the best video game deals are from the internet, the government knows that a lot of drug deals are conducted through the mail. It all starts coming together and eventually you start to look pretty guilty of using drugs.
 
For those of you who think this is just an innocuous list of phone numbers let me give you a little situation ("let's play let's pretend" is a phrase one of my professors used to use). You have a friend who has a roommate who isn't exactly on the stright and narrow as far as the law goes. This roommate is being investigated for selling drugs and as part of that, without a warrant, the government decides to go ahead and delve into the phone records. They see your number is frequently calling this person's number. Now, you know its to chat with your friend but the government might get the bright idea that you're purchasing drugs from the roommate. They start to do some surveilence on you and see you frequently picking up small packages from the post office. You know that its because the best video game deals are from the internet, the government knows that a lot of drug deals are conducted through the mail. It all starts coming together and eventually you start to look pretty guilty of using drugs.

Uhh...... you got a long way to go to show the info is being used like this.

Second, that little amount of circumstantial evidence is unlikely to convict you.

Though, oddly enough, it seems like when bush gets condemned is the only time I ever agree with him. Not on this, but on immigration (well, I don't really support his plan, but I don't have a problem with it) and the ports deal.
 
I thought Republicans were supposed to be in favor of the government not getting into your damn business? Or, am I off on this one.
 
[quote name='XxFuRy2Xx']I thought Republicans were supposed to be in favor of the government not getting into your damn business? Or, am I off on this one.[/quote]

The only political postion that truly believes that is that of the anarchist. Every group with any real power wants to get into people's business to some degree.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Me wonder? Not at all. The only thing that's surprising is how easily people forgot his campaign promises of 2000. Outside of $300 checks, he ran on a platform of transparency in government (and presumably smaller government, given that he claimed to be a conservative), and he also ran as a "compassionate conservative." I don't wonder shit. He's a dreadful president, and the greatest evidence of that is the amazing intellectual acrobatics and cognitive dissonance repairing that those who still support this administration have to go to to continue to support him and rationalize the administration's actions.

If I had any drawing skills at all, I'd become infamous by drawing a political cartoon of emaciated people, shoeless and in striped outfits, behind a tall brick wall covered with razor wire (conjuring images of Belsen, in the event that using words to describe a panel aren't working so well, as they rarely do). Those emaciated souls, of course, would be describing how Bush really has their best interests in mind and merely wants to protect us from terrorists. It's be a quick hire/quick fire kinda thing. Then again, I can't draw for shit, so alas, it's a pipe dream.

The only thing that surprises me in the slightest is that his approval rating has fallen to where it is. I'd always assumed that the voting public is made up of a large bloc of moderate constituents who hate both parties equally, but vote for the one who is the most contemporarily resonant (currently the Democrats, but more or less the Republicans, with few exceptions, since Carter). Then you have the left and right blocs, whose allegiances to their political parties resembles peoples' blind faith and allegiances to their favorite sports franchises; in short, they follow everything they do with the mindset that "their side" has it all right and the "away team" is inherently evil and has it all wrong. I'd say that roughly 20-25% of the population feels that way for the right, and marginally less feel that way for the left (thus you have the wavering majority who reluctantly goes to one side every 2-4 years). At any rate, I can't see it getting any lower than 25% under any circumstances, as there are some people who won't express dislike for anything Bush does, no matter how contrary it may be to their political preferences (freedom, small government, unobtrusiveness in day-to-day affairs, and so on).[/QUOTE]

Bleh I hate em' both, Bush and the Media. We all know Cheney's Military Industrial Complex is behind this shit and what is this lazy ass bitch doing for us? SHIT! What's the media and Democrats done for us? Nothing.
You give us some real fucking Old School Libertarians and they'll boot him out, castrate old Corporations and give us back the constant cycle of rebirth of Infrastructure what with new Corps coming into being to replace one's of 30 years. Rebirth is a healthy cycle and the 2 party system is a cancer on our nation, same with our media, funded by the same people controlling the Corporations and Politicians, creating the diccotomy of Liberal and Corporatist Media to have PAD at my throat and everyone's at his.
Sorry for these rants but my eyes have been opened and I'm ready for any means neccessary if pushed. I refuse to see my country infantized and crippled. People are worried about a Police State, shit worry about our FOOD moving overseas or it being processed there, where almost NOTHING we get is made here anymore and any chance of creating infrastruture for industry and a non-Welfare economy is gone. This is being done because of the threat we present, we can take BACK our country and isolate ourselves for a while and soon stand on our own again and then take the world back and give them their freedom, debunking radical Muslim plants as well as Zionists, same going for Christian plants. Note nowhere do I say I want the entire world to become an Iraq.
Also we must destroy this pay interest on debt crap. There's a reason why it's written in the Koran.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Uhh...... you got a long way to go to show the info is being used like this.

Second, that little amount of circumstantial evidence is unlikely to convict you.

Though, oddly enough, it seems like when bush gets condemned is the only time I ever agree with him. Not on this, but on immigration (well, I don't really support his plan, but I don't have a problem with it) and the ports deal.[/QUOTE]

I didn't say anything about conviction because you're right its not enough to convict. It is enough for them to invade your privacy and hassle you. Nor did I say that it for sure would be used this way but isn't outside the realm of possibility.
 
I love me some privacy. I feel less safe not more with things like this happening. I really hope that when the Bush administration is out of power that those who replace them also replace some of the laws and acts made by the Bush era.
 
[quote name='dtarasev']I love me some privacy. I feel less safe not more with things like this happening. I really hope that when the Bush administration is out of power that those who replace them also replace some of the laws and acts made by the Bush era.[/QUOTE]

No it'll just be more quiet, trust me.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Wow, it has begun. I'm not one to usually get overly dramatic about this type of stuff but he's right, we should be scared. What pisses me off about that statement is that (and yes this is inspiration from V for Vendetta) we should never have to fear our government.
...[/quote]

Fear of government is the reason the Constitution was written.

What is getting to be scary about some of these situations is that private companies seem to be more than willing to go along with this garbage. These telephone companies willingly handed over our phone records, seemingly without any concern whatsoever. ...
The government needs to stop thinking everyone is guilty of terrorism and get their damn noses out of our business.

This is a moot issue.

Any local police detective, during the course of an investigation, can get a copy of your phone records never needing a court order. It's also an old issue as I seem to recall giving this same refutation to alonzo not 3-4 months ago. RedVBlue, you need to stop taking drugs, they're making you excessively paranoid.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Fear of government is the reason the Constitution was written.



This is a moot issue.

Any local police detective, during the course of an investigation, can get a copy of your phone records never needing a court order. It's also an old issue as I seem to recall giving this same refutation to alonzo not 3-4 months ago. RedVBlue, you need to stop taking drugs, they're making you excessively paranoid.[/QUOTE]

:rofl:

Never taken an illicit drug in my life. Hell, I usually tough out a headache rather than taking a tylenol.

Seriously though, you can't honestly tell me that we have the same civil liberty protections that we did 20 years ago.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']:rofl:

Never taken an illicit drug in my life. Hell, I usually tough out a headache rather than taking a tylenol.

Seriously though, you can't honestly tell me that we have the same civil liberty protections that we did 20 years ago.[/QUOTE]

Seriously, how many people here really feel as if their civil liberties have truly been infringed? Has the government hassled you, threatened to arrest you? If the government needs to take these steps to protect us, I'm all for it. It's just mind boggling to me that there are citizens in this country that are willing to risk people's lives rather than to take practical steps to safeguard this country. And of course the same people wanting to handcuff the government's ability to protect will be just as quick to blame them if something does happen "for not doing enough".
 
[quote name='dopa345']Seriously, how many people here really feel as if their civil liberties have truly been infringed? Has the government hassled you, threatened to arrest you? If the government needs to take these steps to protect us, I'm all for it. It's just mind boggling to me that there are citizens in this country that are willing to risk people's lives rather than to take practical steps to safeguard this country. And of course the same people wanting to handcuff the government's ability to protect will be just as quick to blame them if something does happen "for not doing enough".[/QUOTE]

See but its the slippery slope argument. If they take all the phone records and claim its for our own good to protect us from the evil bootleggers, communists, drugdealers, terrorists then when they take a little more down the road it doesn't seem as bad. Its not like the government could ever get away with say starting a national database of correspondence for every person including mailed letters, emails, and phone calls in one sweeping change but if they did stuff a little at a time then it would be a lot easier to pull off.

As far as being scared goes let me put it to you like this. When you take a girl out on a date what kind of movie do you want to take her to? A nice romantic comedy or a scary horror movie? Most guys are gonna say a horror movie because if she gets scared you're going to look like her big protector. Its the same thing with the government. When they have you scared they look like they're going to protect you from all the dangers of the world, all you have to do is give away a few pesky civil liberties.

Do I really care if the NSA knows who I call? Not really to tell you the truth. What I do care about is how we keep making a big stink about giving up our civil liberties in our "war on terror" for about a week and then everyone quietly just takes it a little later.

Also, you're lumping everyone together saying that you complain about giving up civil liberties but also complain about terrorists. Personally, I feel that had the government used the tools already at their disposal PROPERLY then they could have prevented, or at least lessened, the blow of 9/11. We didn't need the patriot act because, as we have already heard, had the CIA and FBI worked together with their information instead of getting into a pissing match over turf battles, there's a good chance 9/11 could have been prevented.
 
[quote name='dopa345']Seriously, how many people here really feel as if their civil liberties have truly been infringed? Has the government hassled you, threatened to arrest you? If the government needs to take these steps to protect us, I'm all for it. It's just mind boggling to me that there are citizens in this country that are willing to risk people's lives rather than to take practical steps to safeguard this country.[/quote]I can't believe that people are so willing to give up civil liberties in this country. I believe Benjamin Franklin said it best, "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." As Redvsblue stated, the government already had enough power to get the job done before the patriot act. They just couldn't do it due to incompetence.
 
[quote name='dopa345']Seriously, how many people here really feel as if their civil liberties have truly been infringed? Has the government hassled you, threatened to arrest you? If the government needs to take these steps to protect us, I'm all for it. It's just mind boggling to me that there are citizens in this country that are willing to risk people's lives rather than to take practical steps to safeguard this country. And of course the same people wanting to handcuff the government's ability to protect will be just as quick to blame them if something does happen "for not doing enough".[/QUOTE]

You would have been right at home in Germany around 1933-39.

"Don't worry guys... Hitler knows what he's doing. Homeboy got our BACKS and shit. Here ya go `dolf. Let me help you burn down that Reichstag..."

I realize there's a lot of hyperbole floating around these boards, but truly - you are the antithesis of what I believe to be an 'American'

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.


Pastor Martin Niemöller
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']You lost when you admitted that.[/QUOTE]

What? Because I'm arguing that this line of rationalization leads us down a slippery slope it invalidates everything I said?

Do you start arguments with yourself too? Its about the only person I haven't seen you try to start one with yet.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']What? Because I'm arguing that this line of rationalization leads us down a slippery slope it invalidates everything I said?[/quote]

It's a logical fallacy. There's no evidence that suggests that when A happens then B C D E F G etc. is going to happen as well. It's the same as same sex marriage opponents suggesting we are on the path towrds 50 year olds marrying 2 year old kids, and people marrying dogs.

I don't like the idea of these programs myself, but a lot of the opposition seems to be little more than fear mongering.

Do you start arguments with yourself too? Its about the only person I haven't seen you try to start one with yet.

Yes, I do. It's hard to figure out my opinion unless I've already debated it.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']It's a logical fallacy. There's no evidence that suggests that when A happens then B C D E F G etc. is going to happen as well. It's the same as same sex marriage opponents suggesting we are on the path towrds 50 year olds marrying 2 year old kids, and people marrying dogs.

I don't like the idea of these programs myself, but a lot of the opposition seems to be little more than fear mongering.



Yes, I do. It's hard to figure out my opinion unless I've already debated it.[/QUOTE]

There is no evidence to suggest it yet it could lead to it being more likely. If you do something wrong and get away with it there's no incentive not to do it again or do something worse. The government has taken away small civil liberties in the past and no one has made a huge stink about it so they continue to do it. The idea of "slippery slope" may be a logical fallacy due to your reasoning but in this situation it doesn't invalidate the argument that the government can, and will, continue to erode our civil liberties.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Fear of government is the reason the Constitution was written.[/QUOTE]

One of the biggest problems in this country is we have a lot of people who don't fear the government, or don't fear it nearly enough, and so they are ready and willing to let the government take over more and more of our lives. See the fat people thread for some excellent examples.
 
if people dont raise a stink something else will go down eventualy how would it be for government to be in all of our computers monitoring us..then movie and music companys getting in and send us bills for anything we have downloaded.

How about asking us or letting us vote on this instead of just doing it???? I want it reversed and I want whoever decided it would be ok out of office.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']One of the biggest problems in this country is we have a lot of people who don't fear the government, or don't fear it nearly enough, and so they are ready and willing to let the government take over more and more of our lives. See the fat people thread for some excellent examples.[/QUOTE]

See that's the problem though. Normal, law abiding citizens shouldn't have ANYTHING to fear from their government. They shouldn't be putting us in a position in the first place where we should have to fear the government's intrusion into our lives.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']See that's the problem though. Normal, law abiding citizens shouldn't have ANYTHING to fear from their government. They shouldn't be putting us in a position in the first place where we should have to fear the government's intrusion into our lives.[/QUOTE]

The very nature of government means we must always be vigilant, distrustful and, yes, even fearful. With all these rather scary NSA revelations, surely you must see that? Government naturally wants to intrude. People in government, especially bureaucrats, tend to feel that they can do a better job running people's lives than people themselves. That's why we now have an income tax, domestic spying without warrants, more and more legislation telling you what you can and can't do with your own property, etc. etc.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']:rofl:

Never taken an illicit drug in my life. Hell, I usually tough out a headache rather than taking a tylenol.

Seriously though, you can't honestly tell me that we have the same civil liberty protections that we did 20 years ago.[/QUOTE]

We lost them long ago, we've just presented with the illusion we've had them this long until lately.
Honestly just LOOK for a second and think about things man. Look at where things are going. Besides "losing" all of your Civil Liberties soon enough almost NO finished food product will come from here. We've already lost most everything else.
 
[quote name='dopa345']Seriously, how many people here really feel as if their civil liberties have truly been infringed? Has the government hassled you, threatened to arrest you? If the government needs to take these steps to protect us, I'm all for it. It's just mind boggling to me that there are citizens in this country that are willing to risk people's lives rather than to take practical steps to safeguard this country. And of course the same people wanting to handcuff the government's ability to protect will be just as quick to blame them if something does happen "for not doing enough".[/QUOTE]

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized

Data mining like the phone record log is an unreasonable search. The state has no reason to look into my ANY of personal effects without a probable cause. You can't treat everyone as a suspect. You have to show a reason for your actions in court. Someone earlier mentioned that any police detective can get your phone records, true, but if he's going to arrest you he has to show why he needed them and how he came to the conclusion that he needed them, other wise they can be thrown out of court.

It's right there in the fourth amendment. If you want to do away with the fourth amendment and give the gov't unlimited surveillance powers, go ahead and lobby for it, somehow I don't think you'll get very far.
 
[quote name='Cheese']It's right there in the fourth amendment. If you want to do away with the fourth amendment and give the gov't unlimited surveillance powers, go ahead and lobby for it, somehow I don't think you'll get very far.[/QUOTE]

I don't know, they've gotten pretty far already with fear-mongering over terrorism. I just saw a poll on Friday that said 66 percent of Americans aren't troubled by the new NSA revelations. A lot of people are evidently willing to trade some of our invaluable freedoms and privacy for someone's assurance that it will make them safe (even if it doesn't).
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Stonecutters?

:lol:

Took me a bit to recognize that quote.[/QUOTE]

exactly. hahaha..

"we doooo... weeee doooo"

classic Simpsons
 
[quote name='elprincipe']I don't know, they've gotten pretty far already with fear-mongering over terrorism. I just saw a poll on Friday that said 66 percent of Americans aren't troubled by the new NSA revelations. A lot of people are evidently willing to trade some of our invaluable freedoms and privacy for someone's assurance that it will make them safe (even if it doesn't).[/QUOTE]

Whoops.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2006/05/15/nsapolls/index.html

When a Washington Post/ABC News poll found last week that 63 percent of Americans approved of the NSA's collection of information about virtually every telephone call made in America, we were so skeptical that we didn't even pass it along. Maybe we were guilty of thinking "from the gut," but the poll seemed to be taken too soon to provide an accurate read on public opinion, and its results didn't square with what we know -- or, at least, what we think we know -- about the importance Americans place on their privacy.

It seems that we were right. A new USA Today/Gallup poll taken over the weekend has 51 percent of Americans disapproving of the NSA program and 62 percent saying that Congress should hold hearings immediately. A Newsweek poll comes up with a similar result; in it, 53 percent of Americans say they think the NSA "goes too far in invading people's privacy."
 
[quote name='dennis_t']Whoops.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2006/05/15/nsapolls/index.html

When a Washington Post/ABC News poll found last week that 63 percent of Americans approved of the NSA's collection of information about virtually every telephone call made in America, we were so skeptical that we didn't even pass it along. Maybe we were guilty of thinking "from the gut," but the poll seemed to be taken too soon to provide an accurate read on public opinion, and its results didn't square with what we know -- or, at least, what we think we know -- about the importance Americans place on their privacy.

It seems that we were right. A new USA Today/Gallup poll taken over the weekend has 51 percent of Americans disapproving of the NSA program and 62 percent saying that Congress should hold hearings immediately. A Newsweek poll comes up with a similar result; in it, 53 percent of Americans say they think the NSA "goes too far in invading people's privacy."[/QUOTE]

That honestly makes me feel a whole lot better about people being susceptible to these kinds of justifications for privacy invasion. Thanks for the update.
 
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