Obama Care Could Be Deadly
- Thread starter gmsisko1
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That argument people make about how people from other countries come here because we have the best healthcare system in the world is really weak to me.
Oh, so the richest, the most powerful people from other countries come to America and get treated the best? Wow, thats really surprising /endsarcasm
Oh, so the richest, the most powerful people from other countries come to America and get treated the best? Wow, thats really surprising /endsarcasm
I called this way back in my blog. The current health care bill strongly mirrors what we have in Massachusetts and it's driving costs up rather than cutting them due to the inherent moral hazard that the plan encourages.
Short term customers boosting health care costs.
My blog entry that predicted this.
Short term customers boosting health care costs.
My blog entry that predicted this.
fatherofcaitlyn
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[quote name='Msut77']1) The bill has actual cost controls in it, time will tell.
2) You never did get to work on Part III did you?[/QUOTE]
Of course not. Part III is the solution. There are no solutions in this country. We simply must have a greater division from the haves and have nots.
2) You never did get to work on Part III did you?[/QUOTE]
Of course not. Part III is the solution. There are no solutions in this country. We simply must have a greater division from the haves and have nots.
mykevermin
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[quote name='dopa345']I called this way back in my blog. The current health care bill strongly mirrors what we have in Massachusetts and it's driving costs up rather than cutting them due to the inherent moral hazard that the plan encourages.
Short term customers boosting health care costs.
My blog entry that predicted this.[/QUOTE]
"it's driving up costs" - you don't tie this to its antecedent properly.
1) Are you claiming that the current health care bill has already driven up costs? laughable and unsourced by you
2) Are you claiming that the Mass. plan is driving up costs? Well, the problem isn't inherent in the plan itself, but in enforcing the aspect of required continual coverage.
Short term customers boosting health care costs.
My blog entry that predicted this.[/QUOTE]
"it's driving up costs" - you don't tie this to its antecedent properly.
1) Are you claiming that the current health care bill has already driven up costs? laughable and unsourced by you
2) Are you claiming that the Mass. plan is driving up costs? Well, the problem isn't inherent in the plan itself, but in enforcing the aspect of required continual coverage.
elprincipe
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[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Great article. Two thoughts. Is there a historical graph? The private sector has taken a huge hit in the last two years. The public sector is starting to take a hit, but it doesn't shift as quick as the private sector can.
Also, what about mercenaries? Blackwater or whatever their name is now pays well into six figures to do what a public soldier does for less than my tech support wages.[/QUOTE]
Good questions. Not sure where you'd find the answer to the latter, but the former can be seen here:
http://www.bls.gov/eci/
Note that it wasn't always this way; recently government compensation has grown more than it has historically.
Also, what about mercenaries? Blackwater or whatever their name is now pays well into six figures to do what a public soldier does for less than my tech support wages.[/QUOTE]
Good questions. Not sure where you'd find the answer to the latter, but the former can be seen here:
http://www.bls.gov/eci/
Note that it wasn't always this way; recently government compensation has grown more than it has historically.
fatherofcaitlyn
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[quote name='dopa345']Short term customers boosting health care costs.
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/blog.php?b=12023[/QUOTE]
People gaming the system by starting and stopping coverage is terrible.
I'll open this to anybody wanting to answer.
Given there will be no short term customers with Obamacare, how will short term customers continue to raise health care costs?
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/blog.php?b=12023[/QUOTE]
People gaming the system by starting and stopping coverage is terrible.
I'll open this to anybody wanting to answer.
Given there will be no short term customers with Obamacare, how will short term customers continue to raise health care costs?
speedracer
Banned
[quote name='elprincipe']This has been in the news recently. Not in every sector, but in most sector government jobs pay a lot more. Which is really the opposite of what it should be, since government employees have more job security.[/QUOTE]
Out of the group of 8 college buddies of mine that stay in contact (we get together for beers once a month), I make 31% less than the next lowest person in the group. They love to remind me of this. I'm the only one in government.
I work in a department with white collar professionals and there isn't a person in the building that would make less in the private sector. Hell, a coworker was offered a 250% raise to work on offshore rigs.
Just sayin.
Out of the group of 8 college buddies of mine that stay in contact (we get together for beers once a month), I make 31% less than the next lowest person in the group. They love to remind me of this. I'm the only one in government.
I work in a department with white collar professionals and there isn't a person in the building that would make less in the private sector. Hell, a coworker was offered a 250% raise to work on offshore rigs.
Just sayin.
mykevermin
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Is he up for re-election and facing a tough contender? He was teeming with bullshittery during the entire leadup to the vote two weeks ago.
thrustbucket
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Can't go to prison if you don't buy health insurance? Sweet - guess there is no reason to buy it then, if they aren't going to enforce it.
[quote name='thrustbucket']Can't go to prison if you don't buy health insurance? Sweet - guess there is no reason to buy it then, if they aren't going to enforce it.[/QUOTE]
I know, it's an awesome plan. I'm going to stop buying health insurance *and* I'll still get all the coverage I need - Obama's gonna make sure of that. More money to buy video games with.
Man, I've been so wrong, all along - I should have supported Obamacare from the beginning.
I know, it's an awesome plan. I'm going to stop buying health insurance *and* I'll still get all the coverage I need - Obama's gonna make sure of that. More money to buy video games with.
Man, I've been so wrong, all along - I should have supported Obamacare from the beginning.
elprincipe
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[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']People gaming the system by starting and stopping coverage is terrible.
I'll open this to anybody wanting to answer.
Given there will be no short term customers with Obamacare, how will short term customers continue to raise health care costs?[/QUOTE]
Why do you say there will be no short-term customers with Obamacare? There is sure to be a huge increase in short-term customers because of the ban on denying coverage for pre-existing conditions, which will mean many people will find it economical to pay the fine and play the waiting game with getting sick. Then, when they get sick, bam, they can't be denied insurance coverage. Tell me how I'm wrong.
[quote name='speedracer']Out of the group of 8 college buddies of mine that stay in contact (we get together for beers once a month), I make 31% less than the next lowest person in the group. They love to remind me of this. I'm the only one in government.
I work in a department with white collar professionals and there isn't a person in the building that would make less in the private sector. Hell, a coworker was offered a 250% raise to work on offshore rigs.
Just sayin.[/QUOTE]
Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.
I'll open this to anybody wanting to answer.
Given there will be no short term customers with Obamacare, how will short term customers continue to raise health care costs?[/QUOTE]
Why do you say there will be no short-term customers with Obamacare? There is sure to be a huge increase in short-term customers because of the ban on denying coverage for pre-existing conditions, which will mean many people will find it economical to pay the fine and play the waiting game with getting sick. Then, when they get sick, bam, they can't be denied insurance coverage. Tell me how I'm wrong.
[quote name='speedracer']Out of the group of 8 college buddies of mine that stay in contact (we get together for beers once a month), I make 31% less than the next lowest person in the group. They love to remind me of this. I'm the only one in government.
I work in a department with white collar professionals and there isn't a person in the building that would make less in the private sector. Hell, a coworker was offered a 250% raise to work on offshore rigs.
Just sayin.[/QUOTE]
Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.
xxDOYLExx
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[quote name='speedracer']Out of the group of 8 college buddies of mine that stay in contact (we get together for beers once a month), I make 31% less than the next lowest person in the group. They love to remind me of this. I'm the only one in government.
I work in a department with white collar professionals and there isn't a person in the building that would make less in the private sector. Hell, a coworker was offered a 250% raise to work on offshore rigs.
Just sayin.[/QUOTE]
whats in your benefit package?
I work in a department with white collar professionals and there isn't a person in the building that would make less in the private sector. Hell, a coworker was offered a 250% raise to work on offshore rigs.
Just sayin.[/QUOTE]
whats in your benefit package?
thrustbucket
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[quote name='IRHari']Fine, be that way failbucket.[/QUOTE]
I am being a bit facetious. I am very confused by that video clip. I thought the entire health care bill hinged on some way of forcing people to buy health care. So if there is no punishment for not buying healthcare, what is it then? The honor system? Couldn't we have saved billions and just passed a law to ask people nicely to buy healthcare, with nearly the same result?
I am being a bit facetious. I am very confused by that video clip. I thought the entire health care bill hinged on some way of forcing people to buy health care. So if there is no punishment for not buying healthcare, what is it then? The honor system? Couldn't we have saved billions and just passed a law to ask people nicely to buy healthcare, with nearly the same result?
[quote name='thrustbucket']I am being a bit facetious. I am very confused by that video clip. I thought the entire health care bill hinged on some way of forcing people to buy health care. So if there is no punishment for not buying healthcare, what is it then? The honor system? Couldn't we have saved billions and just passed a law to ask people nicely to buy healthcare, with nearly the same result?[/QUOTE]
Because they're going to levy fines on you for not having health care.
Then, if you refuse to pay the fines, they can consider imprisonment. But not for lack of health care - for lack of paying fines.
Because they're going to levy fines on you for not having health care.
Then, if you refuse to pay the fines, they can consider imprisonment. But not for lack of health care - for lack of paying fines.
fatherofcaitlyn
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A couple of questions:
1. Where do the fines go? Will they be used to pay medical bills people are skating on or to keep our boys fighting in the Middle East?
2. Is Sweden, home of socialism and women hot enough to make others wonder why you're cheating on them, having any real difficulty with their medical system? My up and coming neocon friend claims they're bankrupt, but google failed me.
1. Where do the fines go? Will they be used to pay medical bills people are skating on or to keep our boys fighting in the Middle East?
2. Is Sweden, home of socialism and women hot enough to make others wonder why you're cheating on them, having any real difficulty with their medical system? My up and coming neocon friend claims they're bankrupt, but google failed me.
perdition(troy
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fatherofcaitlyn
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"The organization noted that Sweden remains a well-off nation."
perdition(troy
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co-worker of mine dated a swede for awhile. said it was a pretty country. (not that any of this has anything to do with healthcare, lol)
[quote name='Msut77']The mandate.
You know the mandate to buy insurance.
Should I bust out the dictionary?
It isn't perfect but it is there.[/QUOTE]
actually MSNBC just aired a report that the IRS can't technically charge you a fine at all. They read word for word from the bill that the language says you will not be required to pay a fine. Mind you that was MSNBC and they were trying to counter the fact that the government was going to have to hire sixteen thousand irs agents by saying they wont have to.
Either they are lying or there is no fine. Either way it is no good for us.
You know the mandate to buy insurance.
Should I bust out the dictionary?
It isn't perfect but it is there.[/QUOTE]
actually MSNBC just aired a report that the IRS can't technically charge you a fine at all. They read word for word from the bill that the language says you will not be required to pay a fine. Mind you that was MSNBC and they were trying to counter the fact that the government was going to have to hire sixteen thousand irs agents by saying they wont have to.
Either they are lying or there is no fine. Either way it is no good for us.
[quote name='Knoell']Mind you that was MSNBC and they were trying to counter the fact that the government was going to have to hire sixteen thousand irs agents by saying they wont have to.[/quote]
http://factcheck.org/2010/03/irs-expansion/
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/how_does_the_individual_mandat.html
Mass. has a similarly weak mandate and it has enrollment of about 97% last I checked, arguably the weak mandate is an acceptable trade off for having almost all of reform through for-profit insurance companies.
The carrot of subsidies is imho more important than the mandate stick.
Presumably the remaining 3% are those of the thrustbobbet persuasion.
http://factcheck.org/2010/03/irs-expansion/
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/how_does_the_individual_mandat.html
Mass. has a similarly weak mandate and it has enrollment of about 97% last I checked, arguably the weak mandate is an acceptable trade off for having almost all of reform through for-profit insurance companies.
The carrot of subsidies is imho more important than the mandate stick.
Presumably the remaining 3% are those of the thrustbobbet persuasion.
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[quote name='Msut77']http://factcheck.org/2010/03/irs-expansion/
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/how_does_the_individual_mandat.html
Mass. has a similarly weak mandate and it has enrollment of about 97% last I checked, arguably the weak mandate is an acceptable trade off for having almost all of reform through for-profit insurance companies.
The carrot of subsidies is imho more important than the mandate stick.
Presumably the remaining 3% are those of the thrustbobbet persuasion.[/QUOTE]
the problem with quoting Mass. health care system is that you do not mention it is a failure.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/how_does_the_individual_mandat.html
Mass. has a similarly weak mandate and it has enrollment of about 97% last I checked, arguably the weak mandate is an acceptable trade off for having almost all of reform through for-profit insurance companies.
The carrot of subsidies is imho more important than the mandate stick.
Presumably the remaining 3% are those of the thrustbobbet persuasion.[/QUOTE]
the problem with quoting Mass. health care system is that you do not mention it is a failure.
[quote name='Msut77']The current system is a failure by basically any definition of the word.
Even the weak mandate should be enough to avert the death spiral.
Did you even bother to read the links I posted?[/QUOTE]
how is the current system a complete failure? even if we take a generous 35 million people and say they dont have health insurance you are saying that more than 80% coverage is a complete failure?
it may have its problems, but it is the best system in the world, and is nowhere near a complete failure.
Even the weak mandate should be enough to avert the death spiral.
Did you even bother to read the links I posted?[/QUOTE]
how is the current system a complete failure? even if we take a generous 35 million people and say they dont have health insurance you are saying that more than 80% coverage is a complete failure?
it may have its problems, but it is the best system in the world, and is nowhere near a complete failure.
What's funny about our health care system is that if you are too poor to utilize it, you die. And if you are a rich celebrity who gets world class treatment in our hospitals, you still die, because the doctors give you cocktails of meds that kill you. If you're in the middle, your doctor bought a bunch of overpriced equipment that sends his costs up, which is why he gives you unnecessary tests to rape your wallet, all the while prescribing useless drugs from pharmaceutical companies that give him kickbacks and backroom deals.
Great system, bro.
/waits to see who will take this post seriously, but hedging bets against myself I know I'm gonna win aint getting me closer to Heaven or Hell
Great system, bro.
/waits to see who will take this post seriously, but hedging bets against myself I know I'm gonna win aint getting me closer to Heaven or Hell
thrustbucket
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I've spent time in Sweden. It does have a swell metal scene, no doubt about it. But the prices for absolutely everything are ridiculous. 50k salary here equals more like 25-30k there. But on the bright side you can just give up working, for the most part, and live almost as good on gov assistance; and everyone pretty much gets mandatory retirement.
fatherofcaitlyn
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[quote name='thrustbucket']I've spent time in Sweden. It does have a swell metal scene, no doubt about it. But the prices for absolutely everything are ridiculous. 50k salary here equals more like 25-30k there. But on the bright side you can just give up working, for the most part, and live almost as good on gov assistance; and everyone pretty much gets mandatory retirement.[/QUOTE]
How much longer does your wife have on her degree?
And don't give me any of that competitive ballroom dancing shit!
How much longer does your wife have on her degree?
And don't give me any of that competitive ballroom dancing shit!
[quote name='thrustbucket']I've spent time in Sweden. It does have a swell metal scene, no doubt about it. But the prices for absolutely everything are ridiculous. 50k salary here equals more like 25-30k there. But on the bright side you can just give up working, for the most part, and live almost as good on gov assistance; and everyone pretty much gets mandatory retirement.[/QUOTE]
The horror. The horror.
The horror. The horror.
thrustbucket
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[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']How much longer does your wife have on her degree?
And don't give me any of that competitive ballroom dancing shit![/QUOTE]
I can't believe you remember all that!
Between one and two semesters, depending on if she gets on the ballroom tour team, she'll make it two (because it's paid for). I'm getting pretty sick of ballroom politics though - you thought congress was bad.....
And don't give me any of that competitive ballroom dancing shit![/QUOTE]
I can't believe you remember all that!
Between one and two semesters, depending on if she gets on the ballroom tour team, she'll make it two (because it's paid for). I'm getting pretty sick of ballroom politics though - you thought congress was bad.....
fatherofcaitlyn
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[quote name='thrustbucket']I can't believe you remember all that!
Between one and two semesters, depending on if she gets on the ballroom tour team, she'll make it two (because it's paid for). I'm getting pretty sick of ballroom politics though - you thought congress was bad.....[/QUOTE]
I tell my wife I remember nothing. It's just another thing I lie about.
Between one and two semesters, depending on if she gets on the ballroom tour team, she'll make it two (because it's paid for). I'm getting pretty sick of ballroom politics though - you thought congress was bad.....[/QUOTE]
I tell my wife I remember nothing. It's just another thing I lie about.
[quote name='Msut77']Read this thread, failing that I can recommend a few books.
Try for both.
It really isn't, the only thing the US healthcare system excels at is costing more.[/QUOTE]
I have two ways accessible to me for health insurance that are affordable. Gasp! without government assitance I say? how can that be?
I may not be the rule, but that shows it is not a complete failure.
Scratch that, the rule is the vast majority of Americans have quality health insurance.
Maybe you should read a few of those books you are so insistant on recommending. There are problems with the system, but it is in no way a complete failure.
Try for both.
It really isn't, the only thing the US healthcare system excels at is costing more.[/QUOTE]
I have two ways accessible to me for health insurance that are affordable. Gasp! without government assitance I say? how can that be?
I may not be the rule, but that shows it is not a complete failure.
Scratch that, the rule is the vast majority of Americans have quality health insurance.
Maybe you should read a few of those books you are so insistant on recommending. There are problems with the system, but it is in no way a complete failure.
You read this thread pretty fast Knoell.
Anyhoo, two of the books I was talking about was The Healing of America by TR Reid and Sick by Jonathan Cohn. If you got the time read Uwe Reinhardt's postings at the NY Times blog and "Uncertainty and the Welfare Economics of Medical Care" by Kenneth Arrow.
If you want to state that it is only 99% a failure that is your own business.
Anyhoo, two of the books I was talking about was The Healing of America by TR Reid and Sick by Jonathan Cohn. If you got the time read Uwe Reinhardt's postings at the NY Times blog and "Uncertainty and the Welfare Economics of Medical Care" by Kenneth Arrow.
If you want to state that it is only 99% a failure that is your own business.
JolietJake
Banned
"
you, i've got mine." That's the feeling i get from some of the T-baggers i've talked to (in person and here).
you, i've got mine." That's the feeling i get from some of the T-baggers i've talked to (in person and here).[quote name='Msut77']You read this thread pretty fast Knoell.
Anyhoo, two of the books I was talking about was The Healing of America by TR Reid and Sick by Jonathan Cohn. If you got the time read Uwe Reinhardt's postings at the NY Times blog and "Uncertainty and the Welfare Economics of Medical Care" by Kenneth Arrow.
If you want to state that it is only 99% a failure that is your own business.[/QUOTE]
Show me how it is anything less than 80% success.
Anyhoo, two of the books I was talking about was The Healing of America by TR Reid and Sick by Jonathan Cohn. If you got the time read Uwe Reinhardt's postings at the NY Times blog and "Uncertainty and the Welfare Economics of Medical Care" by Kenneth Arrow.
If you want to state that it is only 99% a failure that is your own business.[/QUOTE]
Show me how it is anything less than 80% success.
[quote name='JolietJake']" you, i've got mine." That's the feeling i get from some of the T-baggers i've talked to (in person and here).[/QUOTE]
Oh, I'm sorry is the 20 some % out of my paycheck not enough to cover what we need? Here have more! Some of you just do not think, you have butterflies and sunshine in your dreams instead of waking up to the real world.
you, i've got mine." That's the feeling i get from some of the T-baggers i've talked to (in person and here).[/QUOTE]Oh, I'm sorry is the 20 some % out of my paycheck not enough to cover what we need? Here have more! Some of you just do not think, you have butterflies and sunshine in your dreams instead of waking up to the real world.
bread's done