Obama Care Could Be Deadly

fuck metal.

Oh and it may be a failure in everyone else's eyes, but ask the people of MA if they would be cool if it got taken away. You'll get the 'keep yer gov't hands off my gov't healthcare'.

Even Knoell's hero Scott Brown endorses the MA system, which ironically is Obamacare on a smaller scale. Both systems were based on Heritage Foundation (conserv. think tank) ideas.

Let's ignore those though, I guess the talking points are easier to understand.
 
Knoell do you actually plan on reading anything I mentioned?

Are you willing to recognize the fact before I go into this that my position on the matter is much more informed than yours?
 
[quote name='IRHari']fuck metal.

Oh and it may be a failure in everyone else's eyes, but ask the people of MA if they would be cool if it got taken away. You'll get the 'keep yer gov't hands off my gov't healthcare'.

Even Knoell's hero Scott Brown endorses the MA system, which ironically is Obamacare on a smaller scale. Both systems were based on Heritage Foundation (conserv. think tank) ideas.

Let's ignore those though, I guess the talking points are easier to understand.[/QUOTE]

Can you spell FAILURE?

http://www.pnhp.org/mass_report/mass_report_Final.pdf
 
[quote name='Msut77']Knoell do you actually plan on reading anything I mentioned?

Are you willing to recognize the fact before I go into this that my position on the matter is much more informed than yours?[/QUOTE]
Yawn...Still waiting....
 
[quote name='Msut77']So am I. Reading this thread won't take that long, so long as you put Bob on ignore.[/QUOTE]
Thought so.
 
[quote name='Msut77']Knoell it is ok for you to have opinion, it isn't much to ask for it to be an informed one.[/QUOTE]
Still waiting.
 
[quote name='Msut77']I can take a stab at it.

But first are you willing to read anything I mentioned or will you remain aggressively ignorant?[/QUOTE]

Jesus Christ man, just answer the damn question and stop avoiding it.
 
Knowledge is like kryptonite to you people.

Anyhoo, is there any particular reason why you think the US Healthcare system is number one?

Like I said before the only thing it really excels at is costing more than anywhere else.
 
[quote name='Msut77']Knowledge is like kryptonite to you people.

Anyhoo, is there any particular reason why you think the US Healthcare system is number one?

Like I said before the only thing it really excels at is costing more than anywhere else.[/QUOTE]

You really can't answer the question can you? You are so very knowledgable that you don't need to, is that it? lol you are entertaining.
 
Knoell the recommendation to solve the problem is a single-payer method via Medicare for all right? But you're against THAT part of the study right? You're such a douche.
 
[quote name='Knoell']You really can't answer the question can you?[/quote]

I can and I have done so, I'm guessing about a half dozen times.

You have already signaled your intention to ignore anything I bring up.

But I am still willing to take a crack at it and try to penetrate the bone box you call a skull.

You are so very knowledgable that you don't need to
Click to expand...

If you had the tiniest bit of knowledge I wouldn't need to.
 
[quote name='Msut77']I can and I have done so, I'm guessing about a half dozen times.

You have already signaled your intention to ignore anything I bring up.

But I am still willing to take a crack at it and try to penetrate the bone box you call a skull.



If you had the tiniest bit of knowledge I wouldn't need to.[/QUOTE]

lol So let me get this straight, anyone who does not agree with you, is too dumb to understand? This just keeps getting better and better! keep talking man, you make for great entertainment.

Also I'm am still waiting for the answer.
 
[quote name='Msut77']
But I am still willing to take a crack at it and try to penetrate the bone box you call a skull.[/QUOTE]
Holy fucking shit. I just learned Msut's true identity.

annah-02.jpg
 
[quote name='Knoell']lol So let me get this straight, anyone who does not agree with you, is too dumb to understand?[/quote]

On this issue? Either that or they are wallowing in ignorance.

Also I'm am still waiting for the answer.
Click to expand...

You seem to be suffering from Bobitis, you don't get to demand answers from anyone while simultaneously ignoring others questions.
 
Dude he already has stated that he has answered you.

YOU choose not to read it because your too damn lazy to go back in this thread and find the answers.

Dont blame him because he's got better things to do than repeat himself yet again.

The only comedy here is you trying to act like a kid that doesnt want to read the book for the book report, you just want the cliff notes.
 
[quote name='Msut77']On this issue? Either that or they are wallowing in ignorance.



You seem to be suffering from Bobitis, you don't get to demand answers from anyone while simultaneously ignoring others questions.[/QUOTE]

Ignoring others questions? I asked you a question that you answered with another question? Copy and paste it if you have to, just anwser the damn question!
 
[quote name='Msut77']I don't even mind doing that so much as long as there a are few, for lack of a better word parameters.[/QUOTE]

Parameters?
You made a baseless statement that there was no other word for the current system of health care but failure.

I asked you how the current system is only a failure when 80% of Americans have coverage.

You said "well, well, look it up!" and "if only you knew as much as me!"

I do not deny the current system has problems but come on complete failure? you have got to be kidding me.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Ignoring others questions? I asked you a question that you answered with another question? Copy and paste it if you have to, just anwser the damn question![/QUOTE]

The question you are asking is not quite that fucking simple to answer.

Even copy and pasting would take quite a bit time, not even including the differences between pre-reform and post.

Besides before I even bother to do what is no doubt a waste of time because you are who you are, I need to know where to start and finding out exactly why you think the US has the number one health care system is number one is ideal.

And again before I even begin are you at willing to recognize facts such as the fact that the US spends more on healthcare than any other country on the planet? Several times in fact of even those countries that cover everyone?

You are already trying to cover your ass by making some insipid distinction between failure and "complete failure" try not to disappoint me now.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Parameters?
You made a baseless statement that there was no other word for the current system of health care but failure.

I asked you how the current system is only a failure when 80% of Americans have coverage.

You said "well, well, look it up!" and "if only you knew as much as me!"

I do not deny the current system has problems but come on complete failure? you have got to be kidding me.[/QUOTE]

OK, I'll try to regurgitate what has been posted a few dozen times in the past.

The US system costs the most for procedures, medicines and doctors, denies the most care and has aggregate outcomes ranking in the mid 30s of countries.

For Non-Knoell: Am I missing any details?

For Knoell: Is any system that requires more input and generates less output than equivalent systems considered a success or a failure compared to the equivalent systems?

I can provide an example outside of health care if you want.
 
[quote name='Msut77']The question you are asking is not quite that fucking simple to answer.

Even copy and pasting would take quite a bit time.

Besides before I even bother to do what is no doubt a waste of time because you are who you are, I need to know where to start and finding out exactly why you think the US has the number one health care system is number one is ideal.

And again before I even begin are you at willing to recognize facts such as the fact that the US spends more on healthcare than any other country on the planet? Several times in fact of even those countries that cover everyone?[/QUOTE]

What does your point have to do with the success of the health care system? Like I said the current system has its flaws, and we may pay more per capita but you said it is a complete failure.

How is it a complete failure?
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']OK, I'll try to regurgitate what has been posted a few dozen times in the past.

The US system costs the most for procedures, medicines and doctors, denies the most care and has aggregate outcomes ranking in the mid 30s of countries.

For Non-Knoell: Am I missing any details?

For Knoell: Is any system that requires more input and generates less output than equivalent systems considered a success or a failure compared to the equivalent systems?

I can provide an example outside of health care if you want.[/QUOTE]

Did you get your facts from WHO?
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']For Knoell: Is any system that requires more input and generates less output than equivalent systems considered a success or a failure compared to the equivalent systems?

I can provide an example outside of health care if you want.[/QUOTE]

So can I.

US public school system?
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Man... 151 pages and what has anyone accomplished or learned?[/QUOTE]

That Americas health care system that has helped hundreds of millions of people over the years is a complete failure, and can only be replace by government bureaucracy, because we all know how much we can trust the government! Don't worry they know what's good for us!
 
[quote name='Knoell']What does your point have to do with the success of the health care system?[/quote]

When discussing an optimal healthcare system bang for your buck is as good a place to start with as any.

Is this you admitting that we pay much more (several times more) as a percentage of GDP and per capita on healthcare in the US than other countries even the ones where they cover everyone?

Did you get your facts from WHO?
Click to expand...

Where do you get info, Hannity? Limbaugh? Your butt?
 
[quote name='Msut77']When discussing an optimal healthcare system bang for your buck is as good a place to start with as any.

Is this you admitting that we pay much more (several times more) as a percentage of GDP and per capita on healthcare in the US than other countries even the ones where they cover everyone?



Where do you get info, Hannity? Limbaugh? Your butt?[/QUOTE]

Well it has been stated that the WHO statistics are widely misleading.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']So can I.

US public school system?[/QUOTE]

I was going to go with a pair of engines. One with the oil plug screwed in and the other one the oil plug left in the glove box.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Well it has been stated that the WHO statistics are widely misleading.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. How much is the US paying for procedures, medicines and doctors compared to other countries? Which countries deny more care than the US?
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Man... 151 pages and what has anyone accomplished or learned?[/QUOTE]

The only people who learned nothing in this thread are people like you and bob who tried incredibly hard not to.

Just a note to everyone else, Knoell is trying to make a distinction between "failure" and "complete failure" meaning that if anyone gets healthcare in the US the system isn't a complete failure and ergo he wins.
---
Knoell

Well it has been stated that the WHO statistics are widely misleading.
Click to expand...

They aren't perfect but they are better than anything you got.
 
[quote name='Msut77']The only people who learned nothing in this thread are people like you and bob who tried incredibly hard not to.

Just a note to everyone else, Knoell is trying to make a distinction between "failure" and "complete failure" meaning that if anyone gets healthcare in the US the system isn't a complete failure and ergo he wins.
---
Knoell



They aren't perfect but they are better than anything you got.[/QUOTE]

My distinction is that the majority of Americans have quality health coverage. Can you deny that?

Haha, so you are willing to use flawed statistics as long as they fall on your side? Good to know.
 
[quote name='Knoell']My distinction is that the majority of Americans have quality health coverage. Can you deny that?[/quote]

Depends, do you know:

What rescission is?

How many people suffer from being told they had what was known as a pre-existing condition?

How many American people go bankrupt due to medical costs every year?

How many Americans died because of lack of access to healthcare?

so you are willing to use flawed statistics as long as they fall on your side?
Click to expand...

This isn't about "sides" I am not as childish as you.
 
[quote name='Msut77']Depends, do you know:

What rescission is?

How many American people go bankrupt due to medical costs every year?

How many Americans died because of lack of access to healthcare?



This isn't about "sides" I am not as childish as you.[/QUOTE]

Ok those are great headlines, but how many Americans are covered every year, pay their deductible, and get their treatment?

Those awful stories of people "dieing in the streets" without health coverage make heartbreaking headlines.

There you go again, sidestepping the accusation to insult me. You just said that those flawed statistics were good enough for you, and when I pointed that out you said "this isn't about sides" lol there are two sides to this argument you know...
 
[quote name='Knoell']Those awful stories of people "dieing in the streets" without health coverage make heartbreaking headlines.[/quote]

They are pretty awful and I am taking your response as admitting you don't even have a clue as to the answers.

Now is there any good reason why we pay several times more for the privilege of having fellow citizens suffer from those things?

Albeit the reform that passed is on its way to fixing a lot of it.

You just said that those flawed statistics were good enough for you
Click to expand...

I said they aren't literally perfect, kind of like how unemployment numbers aren't perfect but they are better way of gauging the state of things than whatever you pull from your bum or Rush Limbaugh's.

This isn't just about the WHO report BTW, I mentioned some of the places where I get my info from have you?

Do you know who Kenneth Arrow and Uwe Reinhardt are?

Do you have any idea of how healthcare works in other countries?
 
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Granted we all pay more than we should, and not everyone is covered, and many people are dropped from their coverage because of pre-existing conditions, and costs are rising and small businesses can't afford it for their employees, and we're less concerned with preventative care than we are with surgeries that could be avoided. But it's not a complete failure.
 
The best part of this whole mess is that many people are completely happy with their insurance UNTIL they get sick. Then you get, "Insurance will only pay for 60% of your total healthcare costs."

It sounds decent until you get that $6000 bill for your emergency appendectomy. Hey, it's not the insurance company's fault your friend took you to a hospital that's out of network right?
 
[quote name='Msut77']They are pretty awful and I am taking your response as admitting you don't even have a clue as to the answers.

Now is there any good reason why we pay several times more for the privilege of having fellow citizens suffer from those things?

Albeit the reform that passed is on its way to fixing a lot of it.



I said they aren't literally perfect, kind of like how unemployment numbers aren't perfect but they are better way of gauging the state of things than whatever you pull from your bum or Rush Limbaugh's.

This isn't just about the WHO report BTW, I mentioned some of the places where I get my info from have you?

Do you know who Kenneth Arrow and Uwe Reinhardt are?

Do you have any idea of how healthcare works in other countries?[/QUOTE]

Nope I don't know exact numbers of those questions about the uninsured. Why dont you enlighten me? Maybe you can fit the anwser into your next fifty responses.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Nope I don't know exact numbers of those questions about the uninsured.[/quote]

How about just ballpark?

It is in the tens of millions.

The number of Americans who die because of lack of access to healthcare is equal to a 9/11 every few months.

Of the amount of people who go bankrupt in this country 60 some odd percent of them go bankrupt due to medical costs, the majority of those people had insurance.

Maybe you can fit the answer into your next fifty responses.
Click to expand...

Maybe you could make one answer.
 
[quote name='Msut77']How about just ballpark?

It is in the tens of millions.

The number of Americans who die because of lack of access to healthcare is equal to a 9/11 every few months.

Of the amount of people who go bankrupt in this country 60 some odd percent of them go bankrupt due to medical costs, the majority of those people had insurance.



Maybe you could make one answer.[/QUOTE]

Ok so what about the other 200+ million people. They just don't have health problems?
 
[quote name='depascal22']Knoell, go back and read the damn thread dude! You're lazier than the "welfare moms" you moan about.[/QUOTE]

I have skimmed through the thread, and I have to say, I love how opinions flip flop from page to page to adjust to what someone else is saying.

Welfare moms? so you admit theres a welfare problem? ;)
 
[quote name='Knoell']I have skimmed through the thread, and I have to say, I love how opinions flip flop from page to page to adjust to what someone else is saying.

Welfare moms? so you admit theres a welfare problem? ;)[/QUOTE]

No. I was just using the neocon language so you'd understand better. You can go back and skim and find that msut, myke, dmaul, and several others have been pretty consistent for their want for a better system. I don't see where there's been any flip flop from the left on this one.
 
[quote name='depascal22']No. I was just using the neocon language so you'd understand better. You can go back and skim and find that msut, myke, dmaul, and several others have been pretty consistent for their want for a better system. I don't see where there's been any flip flop from the left on this one.[/QUOTE]

everyone is for a better system lol. its a myth that conservatives are against reform.

So in your eyes there is no welfare problem? ;)

You guys need to open your eyes.
 
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