Obama Care Could Be Deadly
- Thread starter gmsisko1
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[quote name='Knoell']people save their own money throughout the year to use for smaller problems. Usually they rollover and are untaxed, so they can develop from year to year and build up.[/QUOTE]
So when I say "they can't afford it" you assume that means they could afford it, if only they saved up some money?
So when I say "they can't afford it" you assume that means they could afford it, if only they saved up some money?
[quote name='SpazX']So when I say "they can't afford it" you assume that means they could afford it, if only they saved up some money?[/QUOTE]
what exactly are you talking about? minor doctor visits for a cold, or cancer?
Yes alot of people could afford alot of necessary things if only they stopped living like they do not need to save money.
what exactly are you talking about? minor doctor visits for a cold, or cancer?
Yes alot of people could afford alot of necessary things if only they stopped living like they do not need to save money.
I'm talking about X effective treatment is more expensive than a person can afford, but Y ineffective treatment is not. Their insurance isn't covering it at all. Do they shop around until a doctor (or non-doctor) tells them something cheap will fix them when it will not?
Is price the issue or is it effective treatment?
Is price the issue or is it effective treatment?
[quote name='SpazX']I'm talking about X effective treatment is more expensive than a person can afford, but Y ineffective treatment is not. Their insurance isn't covering it at all. Do they shop around until a doctor (or non-doctor) tells them something cheap will fix them when it will not?
Is price the issue or is it effective treatment?[/QUOTE]
I would not say that effective treatment alone is the issue. The United States has the greatest health care in the world. The cost of that great health care is the real issue, and if people saved their own money in hsa's for the minor procedures, and insurance covered major things that go wrong with you, wouldn't that lessen the burden on insurers to cover EVERYTHING that EVERYONE goes to the doctor or hospital for, and lower prices.
Again I do not see anything in this bill that deals with the cost of medical procedures.
Is price the issue or is it effective treatment?[/QUOTE]
I would not say that effective treatment alone is the issue. The United States has the greatest health care in the world. The cost of that great health care is the real issue, and if people saved their own money in hsa's for the minor procedures, and insurance covered major things that go wrong with you, wouldn't that lessen the burden on insurers to cover EVERYTHING that EVERYONE goes to the doctor or hospital for, and lower prices.
Again I do not see anything in this bill that deals with the cost of medical procedures.
The Crotch
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[quote name='Knoell']Thought you blocked me?
Yep using your own money to pay for things really is magic.[/QUOTE]
Just so you're aware, you can see what people you've blocked are saying if someone else quotes them.
Yep using your own money to pay for things really is magic.[/QUOTE]
Just so you're aware, you can see what people you've blocked are saying if someone else quotes them.
Yep, I have an FSA account, and it's a use it or lose it as well.
I put around $500 in it to be sure I can use it all, which is pretty easy between $25 prescription co-pays, $15 doctor's visit copays and paying for contacts or glasses etc.
But yeah, you have to have money to put into it. It's not free money or anything, just a way to put some money aside for medical expenses pre tax and lower your tax burden a bit.
I put around $500 in it to be sure I can use it all, which is pretty easy between $25 prescription co-pays, $15 doctor's visit copays and paying for contacts or glasses etc.
But yeah, you have to have money to put into it. It's not free money or anything, just a way to put some money aside for medical expenses pre tax and lower your tax burden a bit.
The Crotch
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[quote name='Strell']Dammit TC.[/QUOTE]
I should follow him around and quote everything he says, just for you.
I should follow him around and quote everything he says, just for you.
[quote name='SpazX']So they just take the money if you don't use it, or what? I don't get the point of that.[/QUOTE]
Yep, it's gone and whatever company you have it through keeps it if you don't use it.
So you have to budget out and be sure to spend it all.
You can use it for over the counter drugs etc. too--just have to check the eligibility list.
It's honestly more trouble than it's worth if you don't have say $1,000 or more in yearly expenses.
I probably won't do it after this year as the tax savings on $500 or so of income aren't worth worrying about spending it, having to fax receipts for verification occasionally etc.
But it's worthwhile for people with more expenses for serious conditions, braces etc. that cost a lot each year.
Yep, it's gone and whatever company you have it through keeps it if you don't use it.
So you have to budget out and be sure to spend it all.
You can use it for over the counter drugs etc. too--just have to check the eligibility list.
It's honestly more trouble than it's worth if you don't have say $1,000 or more in yearly expenses.
I probably won't do it after this year as the tax savings on $500 or so of income aren't worth worrying about spending it, having to fax receipts for verification occasionally etc.
But it's worthwhile for people with more expenses for serious conditions, braces etc. that cost a lot each year.
The HSA is not always just gone. There are different types that you can get that are offered through different insurers. My work has one that is untaxed, and rolls over, but I don't use it, I really should though.
My girlfriend has one and she never goes to the doctor, and she just keeps rolling it over for the past 2-3 years.
Also we aren't only talking about the poorest of the poor. Middle to low income people buy ridiculous things instead saving their money for more important things. I'm sorry it is really hard for me to feel bad for bob down the street because he decided to by a new truck instead of health insurance. Or Joe who decided to buy a playstation 3 and can't afford the deductible on his health insurance. You guys act like every situation in health care is a ridiculously poor person who can't afford to eat let alone get a flu shot. It is just silly because there are already social programs to help that person before this bill ever came around. We are talking about middle to low income people who spend their money irresponsibly, and then whine when catastrophe strikes.
My girlfriend has one and she never goes to the doctor, and she just keeps rolling it over for the past 2-3 years.
Also we aren't only talking about the poorest of the poor. Middle to low income people buy ridiculous things instead saving their money for more important things. I'm sorry it is really hard for me to feel bad for bob down the street because he decided to by a new truck instead of health insurance. Or Joe who decided to buy a playstation 3 and can't afford the deductible on his health insurance. You guys act like every situation in health care is a ridiculously poor person who can't afford to eat let alone get a flu shot. It is just silly because there are already social programs to help that person before this bill ever came around. We are talking about middle to low income people who spend their money irresponsibly, and then whine when catastrophe strikes.
[quote name='Msut77']Speaking of reading comprehension, I am still waiting for knoell to do a "point by point" debunking of what I linked concerning cost controls in the new law.
[/QUOTE]
Sorry you killed all my energy trying to get you to admit that the cost problem is not 100% the insurance companies fault. You were pretty stubborn on that one.
Among other things
Sorry you killed all my energy trying to get you to admit that the cost problem is not 100% the insurance companies fault. You were pretty stubborn on that one.
speedracer
Banned
Business Insider says you didn't get a raise because health care drank your milkshake.
http://www.businessinsider.com/heal...tock+(ClusterStock)&utm_content=Google+Reader
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yep, it's gone and whatever company you have it through keeps it if you don't use it.
So you have to budget out and be sure to spend it all.
You can use it for over the counter drugs etc. too--just have to check the eligibility list.
It's honestly more trouble than it's worth if you don't have say $1,000 or more in yearly expenses.
I probably won't do it after this year as the tax savings on $500 or so of income aren't worth worrying about spending it, having to fax receipts for verification occasionally etc.
But it's worthwhile for people with more expenses for serious conditions, braces etc. that cost a lot each year.[/QUOTE]
Ours gave us a credit card tied into how much we're paying in. I have 750 for the year, just to cover glasses since it's the even year....
No Faxing or keeping receipts, most retailers like WM, Kmart, and Target are HSA/FSA aware and mark it on the receipt.
They are automatically approved for.
It would be nice to get some of that back or roll it over.. but someone needs to be making money off of it, and it can't be me.
It's funny for a drug spree at the end of the year... who needs some Tylenol? Give me the money and I'll buy it!
[quote name='Knoell']The HSA is not always just gone. There are different types that you can get that are offered through different insurers. My work has one that is untaxed, and rolls over, but I don't use it, I really should though.
My girlfriend has one and she never goes to the doctor, and she just keeps rolling it over for the past 2-3 years.
Also we aren't only talking about the poorest of the poor. Middle to low income people buy ridiculous things instead saving their money for more important things. I'm sorry it is really hard for me to feel bad for bob down the street because he decided to by a new truck instead of health insurance. Or Joe who decided to buy a playstation 3 and can't afford the deductible on his health insurance. You guys act like every situation in health care is a ridiculously poor person who can't afford to eat let alone get a flu shot. It is just silly because there are already social programs to help that person before this bill ever came around. We are talking about middle to low income people who spend their money irresponsibly, and then whine when catastrophe strikes.[/QUOTE]
Yep and if everyone got your sweet ass deal we can actually look forward to saving more. But not everyone can pick your HSA... free market? ha.
And nice jab at blaming others... don't blame a failed system, just blame the ones that look the worst.
So you have to budget out and be sure to spend it all.
You can use it for over the counter drugs etc. too--just have to check the eligibility list.
It's honestly more trouble than it's worth if you don't have say $1,000 or more in yearly expenses.
I probably won't do it after this year as the tax savings on $500 or so of income aren't worth worrying about spending it, having to fax receipts for verification occasionally etc.
But it's worthwhile for people with more expenses for serious conditions, braces etc. that cost a lot each year.[/QUOTE]
Ours gave us a credit card tied into how much we're paying in. I have 750 for the year, just to cover glasses since it's the even year....
No Faxing or keeping receipts, most retailers like WM, Kmart, and Target are HSA/FSA aware and mark it on the receipt.
They are automatically approved for.
It would be nice to get some of that back or roll it over.. but someone needs to be making money off of it, and it can't be me.
It's funny for a drug spree at the end of the year... who needs some Tylenol? Give me the money and I'll buy it!
[quote name='Knoell']The HSA is not always just gone. There are different types that you can get that are offered through different insurers. My work has one that is untaxed, and rolls over, but I don't use it, I really should though.
My girlfriend has one and she never goes to the doctor, and she just keeps rolling it over for the past 2-3 years.
Also we aren't only talking about the poorest of the poor. Middle to low income people buy ridiculous things instead saving their money for more important things. I'm sorry it is really hard for me to feel bad for bob down the street because he decided to by a new truck instead of health insurance. Or Joe who decided to buy a playstation 3 and can't afford the deductible on his health insurance. You guys act like every situation in health care is a ridiculously poor person who can't afford to eat let alone get a flu shot. It is just silly because there are already social programs to help that person before this bill ever came around. We are talking about middle to low income people who spend their money irresponsibly, and then whine when catastrophe strikes.[/QUOTE]
Yep and if everyone got your sweet ass deal we can actually look forward to saving more. But not everyone can pick your HSA... free market? ha.
And nice jab at blaming others... don't blame a failed system, just blame the ones that look the worst.
Allnatural
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[quote name='SpazX']What are the advantages to HSAs then? Is it just that the money in them isn't taxed?[/QUOTE]
If I remember Dave Ramsey's explanation:
It's essentially a mutual fund. You invest in it, it grows (depending on market conditions) and when it's big enough the earnings basically pay for your premium. You can pull money out tax free if it's for a qualifying medical expense.
If I remember Dave Ramsey's explanation:
It's essentially a mutual fund. You invest in it, it grows (depending on market conditions) and when it's big enough the earnings basically pay for your premium. You can pull money out tax free if it's for a qualifying medical expense.
fatherofcaitlyn
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[quote name='SpazX']What are the advantages to HSAs then? Is it just that the money in them isn't taxed?[/QUOTE]
That is the big one. Each dollar is a full dollar instead of whatever the government lets you keep after FICA, state and federal.
Instead of paying 10X what other countries pay for Lipitor, you're paying 7-8X what other countries pay for Lipitor.
That is the big one. Each dollar is a full dollar instead of whatever the government lets you keep after FICA, state and federal.
Instead of paying 10X what other countries pay for Lipitor, you're paying 7-8X what other countries pay for Lipitor.
thrustbucket
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How can I get all my wages paid to me in an HSA? 
I know it can only be used for medical stuff.
I have a friend who uses his HSA all the time to go to walmart and buy a bunch of medication, or other stuff, then returns it for cash or store credit. Pre-Tax free grocery shopping - thanks to the gubment.
I know it can only be used for medical stuff.
I have a friend who uses his HSA all the time to go to walmart and buy a bunch of medication, or other stuff, then returns it for cash or store credit. Pre-Tax free grocery shopping - thanks to the gubment.
fatherofcaitlyn
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[quote name='thrustbucket']How can I get all my wages paid to me in an HSA?
I know it can only be used for medical stuff.
I have a friend who uses his HSA all the time to go to walmart and buy a bunch of medication, or other stuff, then returns it for cash or store credit. Pre-Tax free grocery shopping - thanks to the gubment.[/QUOTE]
That's a horrible idea.
If you're going to do something illegal, buy booze with your cash and barter it for food from the people on welfare using food stamps. Then, you have a degree of separation.
I know it can only be used for medical stuff.
I have a friend who uses his HSA all the time to go to walmart and buy a bunch of medication, or other stuff, then returns it for cash or store credit. Pre-Tax free grocery shopping - thanks to the gubment.[/QUOTE]
That's a horrible idea.
If you're going to do something illegal, buy booze with your cash and barter it for food from the people on welfare using food stamps. Then, you have a degree of separation.
[quote name='thrustbucket']How can I get all my wages paid to me in an HSA?
I know it can only be used for medical stuff.
I have a friend who uses his HSA all the time to go to walmart and buy a bunch of medication, or other stuff, then returns it for cash or store credit. Pre-Tax free grocery shopping - thanks to the gubment.[/QUOTE]
? Would this be the case where government needs more regulation on HSA?
HSA/FSA are from the private sector, and it would be their fault to allow such a loophole.
I have mine through a credit card system that's paired with the account directly so if I return something, the only available option is directly to the account through the card itself.
I know it can only be used for medical stuff.
I have a friend who uses his HSA all the time to go to walmart and buy a bunch of medication, or other stuff, then returns it for cash or store credit. Pre-Tax free grocery shopping - thanks to the gubment.[/QUOTE]
? Would this be the case where government needs more regulation on HSA?
HSA/FSA are from the private sector, and it would be their fault to allow such a loophole.
I have mine through a credit card system that's paired with the account directly so if I return something, the only available option is directly to the account through the card itself.
speedracer
Banned
[quote name='thrustbucket']I have a friend who uses his HSA all the time to go to walmart and buy a bunch of medication, or other stuff, then returns it for cash or store credit. Pre-Tax free grocery shopping - thanks to the gubment.[/QUOTE]
And then the number of dollars fraudulently scammed by your friend gets aggregated into a giant figure showing all the frauds. And then someone blames the government for waste and abuse.
This is why we can't have nice things.
And then the number of dollars fraudulently scammed by your friend gets aggregated into a giant figure showing all the frauds. And then someone blames the government for waste and abuse.
This is why we can't have nice things.
it seems you have an FSA if it does not roll over. Wikipedia says, and it isn't always right, but it says that all HSAs roll over and are owned by the individual.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_savings_account
What is so horrible about people saving money for their important health care? and don't try to tell me people do not have the money again. we are not talking about the poorest of the poor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_savings_account
What is so horrible about people saving money for their important health care? and don't try to tell me people do not have the money again. we are not talking about the poorest of the poor.
[quote name='Msut77']Yeah I sometimes have trouble admitting to things that are based on deliberately false premises.
The way you demand to be spoon fed information and then cry about being asked to defend anything is troubling.[/QUOTE]
So you now disagree that any failures of the current system are on the shoulders of us, the government, and insurers? 1 step forward, 2 steps back with you man.
The way you demand to be spoon fed information and then cry about being asked to defend anything is troubling.[/QUOTE]
So you now disagree that any failures of the current system are on the shoulders of us, the government, and insurers? 1 step forward, 2 steps back with you man.
fatherofcaitlyn
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[quote name='Knoell']it seems you have an FSA if it does not roll over. Wikipedia says, and it isn't always right, but it says that all HSAs roll over and are owned by the individual.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_savings_account
What is so horrible about people saving money for their important health care? and don't try to tell me people do not have the money again. we are not talking about the poorest of the poor.[/QUOTE]
How much money should a person be saving towards health care expenditures per week? You can use a dollar amount or a percentage of income.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_savings_account
What is so horrible about people saving money for their important health care? and don't try to tell me people do not have the money again. we are not talking about the poorest of the poor.[/QUOTE]
How much money should a person be saving towards health care expenditures per week? You can use a dollar amount or a percentage of income.
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']How much money should a person be saving towards health care expenditures per week? You can use a dollar amount or a percentage of income.[/QUOTE]
I don't know. I put about 6% in my 401K and I do fine. But do you disagree that people paying for the minor things would free up alot of money for insurers to focus on catastrophic events? (which is what insurance is for)
Do you also think that the everyone in america is just too poor to save money? Do you really think that people are going without any luxuries oncesoever, and that they cannot offer any money or make cuts in their budget to anything to contribute to something as important as health care?
edit: I just do not see how this bill is going to cut the costs of health care premiums for anyone. Why not take this slow, and find out what we really need to do, instead of throwing a trillion dollars at the problem and hope something sticks.
I don't know. I put about 6% in my 401K and I do fine. But do you disagree that people paying for the minor things would free up alot of money for insurers to focus on catastrophic events? (which is what insurance is for)
Do you also think that the everyone in america is just too poor to save money? Do you really think that people are going without any luxuries oncesoever, and that they cannot offer any money or make cuts in their budget to anything to contribute to something as important as health care?
edit: I just do not see how this bill is going to cut the costs of health care premiums for anyone. Why not take this slow, and find out what we really need to do, instead of throwing a trillion dollars at the problem and hope something sticks.
speedracer
Banned
[quote name='Knoell']edit: I just do not see how this bill is going to cut the costs of health care premiums for anyone.[/quote]
One would think market forces would be affected significantly by the addition of 32 million people buying coverage, right? I mean, that much new money and that many new people will bring in new businesses to undercut current business and cause current market participants to cut prices, right?
And that's the problem. No one believes that because no one believes that the health care market is in any way a free market.
One would think market forces would be affected significantly by the addition of 32 million people buying coverage, right? I mean, that much new money and that many new people will bring in new businesses to undercut current business and cause current market participants to cut prices, right?
And that's the problem. No one believes that because no one believes that the health care market is in any way a free market.
I agree. We should wait 14 years and see what changes in health care and take measure of what happens and formulate a plan. Oh wait, we did that.
Agree or disagree with the plan, but the law in and of itself is not bad. At absolute worst it's budget neutral while getting coverage for 30+ million people and ending the worst industry practices. How is that a bad decision?
Yeah, my one concern is costs going up as companies can no longer reject people for pre-existing conditions, stop coverage, set lifetime limits on coverage etc. They'll try to recoup those expenses somehow, and premiums going up could be a result.
As speedracer points out, maybe more people paying in will offset that enough to prevent it from happening. But as he also says, its not much of a free market so I'm skeptical.
That's were we really needed a public option as it could be ran as a non-profit with premiums set at a level to cover expenses and build up a rainy day fund. And having that at a cheaper price would force the for profit insurance companies to keep their rates down to be competitive with the public option.
As speedracer points out, maybe more people paying in will offset that enough to prevent it from happening. But as he also says, its not much of a free market so I'm skeptical.
That's were we really needed a public option as it could be ran as a non-profit with premiums set at a level to cover expenses and build up a rainy day fund. And having that at a cheaper price would force the for profit insurance companies to keep their rates down to be competitive with the public option.
[quote name='speedracer']One would think market forces would be affected significantly by the addition of 32 million people buying coverage, right? I mean, that much new money and that many new people will bring in new businesses to undercut current business and cause current market participants to cut prices, right?
And that's the problem. No one believes that because no one believes that the health care market is in any way a free market.
I agree. We should wait 14 years and see what changes in health care and take measure of what happens and formulate a plan. Oh wait, we did that.
Agree or disagree with the plan, but the law in and of itself is not bad. At absolute worst it's budget neutral while getting coverage for 30+ million people and ending the worst industry practices. How is that a bad decision?[/QUOTE]
According to you guys the 30,000,000 people going on insurance are too poor to pay for it. So how exactly is 30 million people going to now pay for health coverage? because its law? Oh wait the government is going to step in and hand it out. So the government will be paying the insurance companies a ton of money. The same insurance companies that you all seem to condemn as the sole problem of insurance.
I am just trying to figure out how you can possibly believe the CBO estimates that this is going to be deficit neutral. Despite the fact that they are tapping the social security fund, and taking control of student loans to pay for it, the cost of insuring so many more people will be out of control. Noone can say for sure how much it will cost, how do you predict such a thing? but I am willing to bet it will be a lot more than projected.
And that's the problem. No one believes that because no one believes that the health care market is in any way a free market.
I agree. We should wait 14 years and see what changes in health care and take measure of what happens and formulate a plan. Oh wait, we did that.
Agree or disagree with the plan, but the law in and of itself is not bad. At absolute worst it's budget neutral while getting coverage for 30+ million people and ending the worst industry practices. How is that a bad decision?[/QUOTE]
According to you guys the 30,000,000 people going on insurance are too poor to pay for it. So how exactly is 30 million people going to now pay for health coverage? because its law? Oh wait the government is going to step in and hand it out. So the government will be paying the insurance companies a ton of money. The same insurance companies that you all seem to condemn as the sole problem of insurance.
I am just trying to figure out how you can possibly believe the CBO estimates that this is going to be deficit neutral. Despite the fact that they are tapping the social security fund, and taking control of student loans to pay for it, the cost of insuring so many more people will be out of control. Noone can say for sure how much it will cost, how do you predict such a thing? but I am willing to bet it will be a lot more than projected.
[quote name='dmaul1114']
That's were we really needed a public option as it could be ran as a non-profit with premiums set at a level to cover expenses and build up a rainy day fund. And having that at a cheaper price would force the for profit insurance companies to keep their rates down to be competitive with the public option.[/QUOTE]
If insurance companies cannot lower premiums because the costs are too high, what makes you think they can compete when the government is the competition offering artificially low rates.
That's were we really needed a public option as it could be ran as a non-profit with premiums set at a level to cover expenses and build up a rainy day fund. And having that at a cheaper price would force the for profit insurance companies to keep their rates down to be competitive with the public option.[/QUOTE]
If insurance companies cannot lower premiums because the costs are too high, what makes you think they can compete when the government is the competition offering artificially low rates.
speedracer
Banned
[quote name='Knoell']According to you guys the 30,000,000 people going on insurance are too poor to pay for it. So how exactly is 30 million people going to now pay for health coverage? because its law? Oh wait the government is going to step in and hand it out. So the government will be paying the insurance companies a ton of money. The same insurance companies that you all seem to condemn as the sole problem of insurance.[/quote]
I agree. We should have had a public option. Perhaps we'll get lucky and they'll add it in the future.
I agree. We should have had a public option. Perhaps we'll get lucky and they'll add it in the future.
Perhaps if you explained how the Democrats and the CBO think it will save money, it will help us understand how it won't.
fatherofcaitlyn
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[quote name='Knoell']I don't know. I put about 6% in my 401K and I do fine. But do you disagree that people paying for the minor things would free up alot of money for insurers to focus on catastrophic events? [/QUOTE]
I'll give it a strong maybe. Getting people to shop for a good deal on Tylenol isn't going to reduce the cost of bleeding edge meds. Having people go for routine checkups so they'll never need bleeding edge meds will lower the demand of the meds and drive down prices.
[quote name='Knoell'] Do you also think that the everyone in america is just too poor to save money? Do you really think that people are going without any luxuries oncesoever, and that they cannot offer any money or make cuts in their budget to anything to contribute to something as important as health care?[/QUOTE]
Tough call.
http://www.bea.gov/BRIEFRM/SAVING.HTM
You want people to save six percent of their incomes, but they consistently have less than five percent of disposable personal income. Of that 6%, how much goes to premiums and how much goes towards saving for the deductible? If you want people to pay a premium AND save 6% towards the deductible, you're asking too much almost irrespective of history. Otherwise, you're just asking for a close to reasonable level.
I'll give it a strong maybe. Getting people to shop for a good deal on Tylenol isn't going to reduce the cost of bleeding edge meds. Having people go for routine checkups so they'll never need bleeding edge meds will lower the demand of the meds and drive down prices.
[quote name='Knoell'] Do you also think that the everyone in america is just too poor to save money? Do you really think that people are going without any luxuries oncesoever, and that they cannot offer any money or make cuts in their budget to anything to contribute to something as important as health care?[/QUOTE]
Tough call.
http://www.bea.gov/BRIEFRM/SAVING.HTM
You want people to save six percent of their incomes, but they consistently have less than five percent of disposable personal income. Of that 6%, how much goes to premiums and how much goes towards saving for the deductible? If you want people to pay a premium AND save 6% towards the deductible, you're asking too much almost irrespective of history. Otherwise, you're just asking for a close to reasonable level.
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']I'll give it a strong maybe. Getting people to shop for a good deal on Tylenol isn't going to reduce the cost of bleeding edge meds. Having people go for routine checkups so they'll never need bleeding edge meds will lower the demand of the meds and drive down prices.
Tough call.
http://www.bea.gov/BRIEFRM/SAVING.HTM
You want people to save six percent of their incomes, but they consistently have less than five percent of disposable personal income. Of that 6%, how much goes to premiums and how much goes towards saving for the deductible? If you want people to pay a premium AND save 6% towards the deductible, you're asking too much almost irrespective of history. Otherwise, you're just asking for a close to reasonable level.[/QUOTE]
? That consistantly less than 5% is the amount of disposable income that they use for savings....
Tough call.
http://www.bea.gov/BRIEFRM/SAVING.HTM
You want people to save six percent of their incomes, but they consistently have less than five percent of disposable personal income. Of that 6%, how much goes to premiums and how much goes towards saving for the deductible? If you want people to pay a premium AND save 6% towards the deductible, you're asking too much almost irrespective of history. Otherwise, you're just asking for a close to reasonable level.[/QUOTE]
? That consistantly less than 5% is the amount of disposable income that they use for savings....
fatherofcaitlyn
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[quote name='Knoell']? That consistantly less than 5% is the amount of disposable income that they use for savings....[/QUOTE]
Which is more important: health care or savings?
Which is more important: health care or savings?
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Which is more important: health care or savings?[/QUOTE]
Health care for sure. If you have a major illness with no insurance (or too little insurance) you're savings will be quickly gone. Especially if you can't work because of it.
Vs. having health care to cover expenses, cover regular visits so any issues are detected as early as possible etc.
Being reasonably healthy is pretty much a requirement to be able to build savings. Some people are fortunate and never have major medical issues, but most people will eventually have illnesses or injuries that will wreck their finances even with years of saving every penny they could if they don't have good insurance.
Health care for sure. If you have a major illness with no insurance (or too little insurance) you're savings will be quickly gone. Especially if you can't work because of it.
Vs. having health care to cover expenses, cover regular visits so any issues are detected as early as possible etc.
Being reasonably healthy is pretty much a requirement to be able to build savings. Some people are fortunate and never have major medical issues, but most people will eventually have illnesses or injuries that will wreck their finances even with years of saving every penny they could if they don't have good insurance.
Yeah that chart is showing savings as a percentage of disposable income (which is income - taxes). What you're looking for really is A) how much money people have left after paying their bills ("discretionary income") and B) how much of that they save.
Some light googling got me that households making under $50k a year (which would be a little more than half the country), have an average of ~$2,000 a year of discretionary income. And obviously a great deal of those don't have any, so you'd need a better breakdown.
Some light googling got me that households making under $50k a year (which would be a little more than half the country), have an average of ~$2,000 a year of discretionary income. And obviously a great deal of those don't have any, so you'd need a better breakdown.
[quote name='SpazX']Yeah that chart is showing savings as a percentage of disposable income (which is income - taxes). What you're looking for really is A) how much money people have left after paying their bills ("discretionary income") and B) how much of that they save.
Some light googling got me that households making under $50k a year (which would be a little more than half the country), have an average of ~$2,000 a year of discretionary income. And obviously a great deal of those don't have any, so you'd need a better breakdown.[/QUOTE]
but surely some of those have already paid for health insurance before you get the discretionary income figure. youd need to find a report that has the discretionary income that only shows uninsured.
Some light googling got me that households making under $50k a year (which would be a little more than half the country), have an average of ~$2,000 a year of discretionary income. And obviously a great deal of those don't have any, so you'd need a better breakdown.[/QUOTE]
but surely some of those have already paid for health insurance before you get the discretionary income figure. youd need to find a report that has the discretionary income that only shows uninsured.
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']but surely some of those have already paid for health insurance before you get the discretionary income figure. youd need to find a report that has the discretionary income that only shows uninsured.[/QUOTE]
If that's included, I don't know exactly how whoever came to that number, it was just cited in a few articles. Catastrophic insurance wouldn't be free either, so it would only be a partial reduction, and would still depend on the deductible of course.
If that's included, I don't know exactly how whoever came to that number, it was just cited in a few articles. Catastrophic insurance wouldn't be free either, so it would only be a partial reduction, and would still depend on the deductible of course.
I'm not really sure what the point of contention is here.
We all know that America is the leader of consumerism in the world, and the majority of people (myself included) don't save nearly as much as they should, and way too many get into credit card debt buying stuff they don't need etc.
It's not mystery that a good chunk of people would be much better off if the could manage money and not buy things they can't afford and don't need.
But that doesn't mean there isn't a sizable chunk who simply have little disposable income after regular living expenses, nor that people don't go under because of insurance denials, medial problems that arise when they have a job that doesn't offer insurance etc.
Two different issues IMO.
We all know that America is the leader of consumerism in the world, and the majority of people (myself included) don't save nearly as much as they should, and way too many get into credit card debt buying stuff they don't need etc.
It's not mystery that a good chunk of people would be much better off if the could manage money and not buy things they can't afford and don't need.
But that doesn't mean there isn't a sizable chunk who simply have little disposable income after regular living expenses, nor that people don't go under because of insurance denials, medial problems that arise when they have a job that doesn't offer insurance etc.
Two different issues IMO.
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Which is more important: health care or savings?[/QUOTE]
you do not have to chose, the website you gave only shows that 5 or less percent of disposable income is saved. That does not tell us how much is spent on everything else.
you do not have to chose, the website you gave only shows that 5 or less percent of disposable income is saved. That does not tell us how much is spent on everything else.
[quote name='Msut77']Anyone care to translate?
Also still waiting for the "point by point" you promised.[/QUOTE]
wow, I wonder if they ban corporations from the world, Msut really thinks all of our problems will be solved. People do not spend money on what they should, like health insurance, or HSAs. Next you will say "well, well they just do not have the money". But we are not talking about the poorest of the poor because they already have entitlements for these situations.
Also still waiting for the "point by point" you promised.[/QUOTE]
wow, I wonder if they ban corporations from the world, Msut really thinks all of our problems will be solved. People do not spend money on what they should, like health insurance, or HSAs. Next you will say "well, well they just do not have the money". But we are not talking about the poorest of the poor because they already have entitlements for these situations.
bread's done