Obama Releases Birth Certificate

[quote name='MSI Magus']I found out one of my friends the other day was a birther. I always knew the guy disliked Obama but did not care....but finding out he is a birther almost taints the friendship. Its just such a stupid and radical thing to believe. And here is the biggest thing that I always ask....what the fuck does it matter if he was born here or not? Honestly seriously....why does it matter? Yes its a legal requirement, but should it really be? Its totally unneeded and anyone that has lived in this country as long as he has should be qualified anyways. If you dislike his politics...fine...but to claim he is not qualified to be president is just insane both because he obviously was born here and as I said even if he was not it really does not freaking matter.[/QUOTE]
That is precisely why I don't discuss politics with some friends, because some things I just don't want to know about some people.
 
Actually I have people try and goad me into discussing even though they know I don't like to, so yeah, you're wrong.

But don't take me wrong Knoell, I can take dissenting opinions (despite what you and bobeh think). But some things are just too disgusting for me to want to know. A friend of mine once said that gay marriage was a bad idea because it would lead to people marrying their pets. Stupid shit like that, yeah I don't want to know you think that.
 
[quote name='Knoell']They feel the same way about you guys.[/QUOTE]

I never mind when crazies, conspiracy theorists or racists think I am stupid....so why would I care that a crazy racist conspiracy theorist thinks negatively of me? Besides again the people I am talking about since I know them personally I know how educated...or should I say uneducated they are. While I spend a large portion of my day reading the news, watching the news and watching documentaries(thus educating myself at least to some extent on major issues)they spend their days reading people magazine, playing with trains and just in general wasting time. These are the same people that when you ask them who the speaker of the house or the vice president is they cant name them....so why should I take their opinion seriously?

THIS is why I dont talk politics with people. Because its very hard for me not to after pulling up facts about a topic and have some uninformed person get all huffy and upset tell them that I could give a squat how they feel because their an uneducated moron.
 
I'll talk to anyone about politics... generally I can change people's perspective even if only to a minute degree. I think the "don't discuss politics or religion" idea stems from authority figures trying to avoid the spread of ideas, or possibly bartenders who wish to keep their establishments intact.

I don't think I've ever lost a friendship due to differing political opinions. I am not going to cut someone off for having a different mindset, even if it is less informed than my own.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']THIS is why I don't talk politics with people. Because it's very hard for me not to after pulling up facts about a topic and have some uninformed person get all huffy and upset tell them that I could give a squat how they feel because they're an uneducated moron.[/QUOTE]

You know, I dislike playing grammar police (lord knows I make my own fair share of mistakes)... but I always get a chuckle when someone goes on a rant, calling other people things like "uneducated moron" and such, yet they simply do not appear to have much of a grasp of some of the most basic concepts of the language with which they choose to communicate.
 
Well frankly (and I know that bob and knoell won't believe this) I've found conservatives less tolerant of other's ideas than liberals. Conservative friend of mine used to go on and on about how much Obama sucked, and I just told him one day that if he kept it up I wouldn't be able to hold my tongue forever, and when I couldn't anymore I would end up coming down on him pretty hard for some of the stupid shit he said. He quit after that.

Frankly politics aren't important enough to come between friends in my opinion. Plenty of other things to discuss.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']You know, I dislike playing grammar police (lord knows I make my own fair share of mistakes)... but I always get a chuckle when someone goes on a rant, calling other people things like "uneducated moron" and such, yet they simply do not appear to have much of a grasp of some of the most basic concepts of the language with which they choose to communicate.[/QUOTE]
Or rather they don't bother to proofread posts made on an internet message board. But hey, whatever makes you feel s-m-r-ter.
 
[quote name='Clak']Well frankly (and I know that bob and knoell won't believe this) I've found conservatives less tolerant of other's ideas than liberals.[/QUOTE]

Actually, I believe this 100%.

I completely believe that you, personally, have found conservatives to be less tolerant than liberals. I wouldn't argue that one bit with you.
 
[quote name='Clak']Or rather they don't bother to proofread posts made on an internet message board. But hey, whatever makes you feel s-m-r-ter.[/QUOTE]

You shouldn't need to proofread your own posts in order to catch things like "their/they're/there".
Regardless, it's not about making "me feel smarter" - it's about someone going around, insulting the intelligence of others when their own grasp of things... well, isn't up to snuff.

Think of the "GET A BRAIN, MORANS" guy. That's what I equate this with.
 
[quote name='willardhaven']Wow, you've really never typed its instead of it's online?[/QUOTE]

As I said, I've made my own fair share of mistakes. The difference here is that I'm not actively calling out the "stupidity" of others while showing my own inability to communicate with the language of my choice.

Again, it's the "GET A BRAIN, MORANS" guy....
 
[quote name='UncleBob']You know, I dislike playing grammar police (lord knows I make my own fair share of mistakes)... but I always get a chuckle when someone goes on a rant, calling other people things like "uneducated moron" and such, yet they simply do not appear to have much of a grasp of some of the most basic concepts of the language with which they choose to communicate.[/QUOTE]

People can understand different subjects to different degrees. When it comes to the basics like math and grammar I am horrible. I am the first to admit it since besides having a learning disabilty I basically stopped having an education around the 7th or 8th grade. In 7th grade I switched to an uber baptist school that spent more time teaching us about the bible and telling us that the earth was 2,000 years old then actually teaching anything worthwhile. 9th grade went back to public schools but I faked sick for so long that my mom took me in for testing and it turned out I had mono. I played it up like I had the most severe case ever and missed my entire freshman year. 10th grade(or what should have been repeating 9th)my parents had me go to an "alternative school" where we basically controlled our own work schedules and were hardly checked on. I at first really applied myself...but then like all the other students gave in and laid around outside or in the gym playing with my gameboy. I also realized how half assed the teachers were in checking my work so I finally switched to home schooling and when I had to bring in my work I played the system. I ended up graduating a year ahead of my class with honors even though I hardly did anything.

So yes I call other people uneducated, but it is specifically referring to the things they are choosing to open their ignorant mouth up and act like an expert about. You do not see me saying I am a grammar or math whizz. Instead I have recognized the mistakes I have made in life and recognize my weaknesses and chose to play to my strengths. If the general populace does the same and shuts up about the things they know nothing about or begins educating themselves on it, then I will stop pointing it out.

But hey, hope being a wise ass dick made you feel better. It is what our politics are all about now anyways right?
 
[quote name='Clak']Frankly politics aren't important enough to come between friends in my opinion. Plenty of other things to discuss.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's a basic rule of life. Don't discuss things like politics, religion etc. with friends, or especially, with family.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']But hey, hope being a wise ass dick made you feel better. It is what our politics are all about now anyways right?[/QUOTE]

So, basically, you get to go on random websites and call your "friends" uneducated morons behind their backs and it's all good... but when I point out that you're not all mighty and awesome, well, then I'm a "wise ass dick".

Look, I have no problem with anyone who makes type-os or other errors of grammar. My issue is with someone who thinks that they're above all others simply because they read a book or or two. You're not perfect and someone doesn't have to have an absolute history of the world in order to make and form intelligent opinions on a subject. It helps, of course, but it should be considered no more of a requirement than saying you should have to be fully educated on the finer points of the English language before you should be allowed to use it.

Otherwise, you're no better than some guy standing on the street corner holding a sign that says "Get a brain, morans."

How many people have bothered to find out this guy's story before making fun of him? Perhaps he's a super-genius with a perfect understanding of history, politics and the social workings of society that simply doesn't 'get' English.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']So, basically, you get to go on random websites and call your "friends" uneducated morons behind their backs and it's all good... but when I point out that you're not all mighty and awesome, well, then I'm a "wise ass dick".

Look, I have no problem with anyone who makes type-os or other errors of grammar. My issue is with someone who thinks that they're above all others simply because they read a book or or two. You're not perfect and someone doesn't have to have an absolute history of the world in order to make and form intelligent opinions on a subject. It helps, of course, but it should be considered no more of a requirement than saying you should have to be fully educated on the finer points of the English language before you should be allowed to use it.

Otherwise, you're no better than some guy standing on the street corner holding a sign that says "Get a brain, morans."

How many people have bothered to find out this guy's story before making fun of him? Perhaps he's a super-genius with a perfect understanding of history, politics and the social workings of society that simply doesn't 'get' English.[/QUOTE]

No, I gladly tell them to their face. Its part of why I dont keep friends, because I have very high standards. And man I knew your political logic was fucked up, but apparently its extended to other areas as well. How does me saying something about my friends make me a wise ass dick or make me mighty and awesome? I never said I was. Again your projecting feelings and thoughts on to me because you dislike my politics.

As for educating yourself I am sorry but it is a preq to having a wise opinion. I do not expect people to have some massive knowledge base of politics or history to have an opinion. But whenever people make all of their opinions out of ignorance they deserve to be called on their shit and they deserve to be called a moron. I am sorry but politics and the decisions that effect our nation are very complicated, so whenever I have someone like my mother in law that sits around texting all day and reading celebrity gossip mags telling me what needs to be done to lower gas prices I do not want to fucking hear it. Nor do I want to hear my father explain to me how his state is in deficit because of unions when he spends his day drinking, smoking pot and playing with his dog.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but those that are knowledgeable are entitled to call those who are not morons and tell them to shut the hell up when they are talking about things the rest of us cant even begin to comprehend. I would have no problem with an architect telling me to shut up if I was trying to give him suggestions on how to keep his bridge from bowing and I gladly listen to scientists when they talk about things like global warming or evolution because they are 15,000x smarter then I will ever be. But hey, I guess that is the difference between me and you and frankly most people in general. I recognize when someone is my better and I deffer to their opinion. Yes I may gather many sources and put all the information together then make a choice about who to believe...but I still ultimately recognize my own limits and others brilliance. You on the other hand have proven time and time again you can not handle anyone or hell even any fact that challenges your narrow conservative world view.

Thats why you are picking a fight right now, because my friends believe as you do so they MUST be defended. I would love to see you call someone like broly or Ram on something they say...but you cant do it because you all must follow the same narrow line.

Edit - BTW note again the way that you always respond to just part of peoples posts. You never deal with the entire response or even the context of their response in general. Instead you pick out one or two little snippets that you view as a weak argument or particularly outside your world view and then attack that. Its a rather lame and frankly immature way to have a discussion(using that word because saying you debate is being generous).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Not putting in apostrophes is forgivable, I think, given the internet and all.

Confusing their and they're happens too often and it shouldn't be forgiven. It will be a black mark on you forever MSI Magus. We will remember in November!
 
[quote name='IRHari']Not putting in apostrophes is forgivable, I think, given the internet and all.

Confusing their and they're happens too often and it shouldn't be forgiven. It will be a black mark on you forever MSI Magus. We will remember in November![/QUOTE]

*lowers head in shame*
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']because I have very high standards.[/quote]
Except in your use of English, eh? :D

How does me saying something about my friends make me a wise ass dick or make me mighty and awesome? I never said I was.

You are self-projecting this "mighty and awesome" when you post stuff like "I'm smart and I read books. Other people who don't are stupid and therefore my opinion is more important than their opinion."

Again your projecting feelings and thoughts on to me because you dislike my politics.

Honestly, I know very little about your politics. It's your attitude that throws me off.

As for educating yourself I am sorry but it is a preq to having a wise opinion. I do not expect people to have some massive knowledge base of politics or history to have an opinion. But whenever people make all of their opinions out of ignorance they deserve to be called on their shit and they deserve to be called a moron.

Here's the thing, though - you can read as many books and watch as many documentaries as you like - it doesn't mean you'll comprehend - on any level - what you're reading/watching. Meanwhile, someone with basic knowledge of the situation can have a totally different viewpoint or base of knowledge that allows them to offer suggestions and (yes) opinions that may (or may not) be completely relevant and be the perfect solution to the problem. It's like the old urban legend about the Russians using a pencil.

I am sorry but politics and the decisions that effect our nation are very complicated, so whenever I have someone like my mother in law that sits around texting all day and reading celebrity gossip mags telling me what needs to be done to lower gas prices I do not want to fucking hear it. Nor do I want to hear my father explain to me how his state is in deficit because of unions when he spends his day drinking, smoking pot and playing with his dog.

Sounds like you've got some personal issues there...

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but those that are knowledgeable are entitled to call those who are not morons and tell them to shut the hell up when they are talking about things the rest of us cant even begin to comprehend. I would have no problem with an architect telling me to shut up if I was trying to give him suggestions on how to keep his bridge from bowing and I gladly listen to scientists when they talk about things like global warming or evolution because they are 15,000x smarter then I will ever be. But hey, I guess that is the difference between me and you and frankly most people in general. I recognize when someone is my better and I deffer to their opinion.

Without knowing you all that well, I'd say the difference between you and I is that I'm more tolerant of other people's opinions, period. I don't automatically assume that my opinion is better and dismiss some other person's opinion because he/she is an uneducated moron and, likewise, I've solved (granted, minor) problems in situations where I have little to no knowledge or experience while dealing with people who deal with these issues every day.

Thats why you are picking a fight right now, because my friends believe as you do so they MUST be defended.

Umm... No. I don't even know your "friends". Sorry.

I would love to see you call someone like broly or Ram on something they say...but you cant do it because you all must follow the same narrow line.

I get it. You think I should make a point to argue with someone who I generally agree with. That makes a lot of sense.

Edit - BTW note again the way that you always respond to just part of peoples posts.

Sorry - in spite of all the time I spend on this forum, I do have a life. A wife, three dogs, a full time (plus) job, some community involvement, video games... I could spend hours picking apart every post made in reply to me, but what's the point? If you think you made a great point somewhere that I didn't address, then consider that a win for your side or something.
 
Obviously when you compare yourself to the nonsense spouted on yahoo message boards, or your uninformed friends, you are smarter. I can think of quite a few examples in which I know of liberals making ridiculous remarks. Does this mean the entire liberal ideology is misinformed and "stupid"? No. Criticize the ideas, not the people behind them.
 
[quote name='willardhaven']Magus I tend to agree with the spirit of many of your Vs. Forum posts but you do come off like a rambling lunatic at times.[/QUOTE]

And I can appreciate that. Its most likely because I get upset/passionate about this at times. It drives me nuts how right or left most people are and it drives me nuts that people refuse to try and see the other side. It also drives me nuts as you saw here that people refuse to educate themselves at all yet insist on having an opinion. That means at times this is the place I come to rant ;) I try to not even post here at all frankly, but I am not very successful with that. I am sure it does not help that my grammar is so horrid.

Really I do not think these people are stupid what so ever(ermm I should say MOST of them are not!). My uncle runs his own very successful company and has made a lot of money in life by himself. My friend that is the birther had never done any construction before yet was able to pick up a book on home maintenance and then fix up an old run down home. The guy is amazing, within a year he replaced the roof, ripped up all the carpets and made them gorgeous hardwood floors and he completely finished the basement. He also beats me at board games frequently ;) As I said I really do not think these people are stupid, but I do think they are incredibly ignorant when it comes to most subjects yet they insist on making their opinions known. THAT really bothers me and I do let them know and I do so in a much more polite way, here is just where I blow off a little steam ;)

Thanks btw for stating a negative about me in such a mature and constructive way! That is why even though me and you have argued passionatly in the past I dont want you on ignore, its rare to find anyone off or online that can be that mature/civil these days.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='MSI Magus']And I can appreciate that. Its most likely because I get upset/passionate about this at times. It drives me nuts how right or left most people are and it drives me nuts that people refuse to try and see the other side. It also drives me nuts as you saw here that people refuse to educate themselves at all yet insist on having an opinion. That means at times this is the place I come to rant ;) I try to not even post here at all frankly, but I am not very successful with that. I am sure it does not help that my grammar is so horrid.

Really I do not think these people are stupid what so ever(ermm I should say MOST of them are not!). My uncle runs his own very successful company and has made a lot of money in life by himself. My friend that is the birther had never done any construction before yet was able to pick up a book on home maintenance and then fix up an old run down home. The guy is amazing, within a year he replaced the roof, ripped up all the carpets and made them gorgeous hardwood floors and he completely finished the basement. He also beats me at board games frequently ;) As I said I really do not think these people are stupid, but I do think they are incredibly ignorant when it comes to most subjects yet they insist on making their opinions known. THAT really bothers me and I do let them know and I do so in a much more polite way, here is just where I blow off a little steam ;)

Thanks btw for stating a negative about me in such a mature and constructive way BTW. That is why even though me and you have argued in the past I dont want you on ignore, its rare to find anyone off or online that can be that mature/civil these days.[/QUOTE]
I agree with your sentiments. I can't have ignorant friends that call themselves "liberal," but are really neo-liberals, which was born out of conservatism.

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that making money and being socially conscious are mutually exclusive. In matter of fact, they typically tend to be diametrically opposed to another, so the more money you make, the more you are to have sociopathic tendancies. But this has absolutely no bearing on intelligence. Some people just don't give a fuck about "others."
 
Another example of why I don't talk politics with my friends. A friend of mine who I know is very conservative let loose with this little truth nugget today.

He said he believed "in a lot of what science says, but that these people who believe in evolution are just crazy. This one guy said we evolved from germs and thinks aliens brought the germs to earth." He was told (by me) that obviously that was either a gross exaggeration or the guy is a crack pot who shouldn't be taken seriously, his response was "But dude, he wrote a book"

And I wish he represented a minority of conservatives, but we know that isn't true, otherwise nearly nobody would believe or listen to idiots like Palin.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Like I said once before it's an open forum everyone has an opinion. I don't go bashing people for their opinions I don't care if you are a birther, Democratic Liberal, independent, Republican, Baby Boomer whatever. Stereotypes are dumb. It shouldn't matter what you think that is your opinion and you have a right to it. I consider myself independent because I believe in voting for who is going to do the job right. As far as the birth certificate I still stand on my opinion that it was photoshopped. Until I see it with my own eyes, hold it with my own hands, and personally inspect the birth certificate I still don't believe it's real. I am not a racist by any means and don't appreciate being referred as one. I believe that all people regardless of race color creed or origin should be treated equal.
 
[quote name='DestroCobra']Like I said once before it's an open forum everyone has an opinion. I don't go bashing people for their opinions I don't care if you are a birther, Democratic Liberal, independent, Republican, Baby Boomer whatever. Stereotypes are dumb. It shouldn't matter what you think that is your opinion and you have a right to it. I consider myself independent because I believe in voting for who is going to do the job right. As far as the birth certificate I still stand on my opinion that it was photoshopped. Until I see it with my own eyes, hold it with my own hands, and personally inspect the birth certificate I still don't believe it's real. I am not a racist by any means and don't appreciate being referred as one. I believe that all people regardless of race color creed or origin should be treated equal.[/QUOTE]

If everyone is equal, why does it matter if his birth certificate is real or not?
 
[quote name='DestroCobra']Like I said once before it's an open forum everyone has an opinion. I don't go bashing people for their opinions I don't care if you are a birther, Democratic Liberal, independent, Republican, Baby Boomer whatever. Stereotypes are dumb. It shouldn't matter what you think that is your opinion and you have a right to it. I consider myself independent because I believe in voting for who is going to do the job right. As far as the birth certificate I still stand on my opinion that it was photoshopped. Until I see it with my own eyes, hold it with my own hands, and personally inspect the birth certificate I still don't believe it's real. I am not a racist by any means and don't appreciate being referred as one. I believe that all people regardless of race color creed or origin should be treated equal.[/QUOTE]
I can't believe you bumped a 3 month old thread for this load of shit.
 
[quote name='DestroCobra']Like I said once before it's an open forum everyone has an opinion. I don't go bashing people for their opinions I don't care if you are a birther, Democratic Liberal, independent, Republican, Baby Boomer whatever. Stereotypes are dumb. It shouldn't matter what you think that is your opinion and you have a right to it. I consider myself independent because I believe in voting for who is going to do the job right. As far as the birth certificate I still stand on my opinion that it was photoshopped. Until I see it with my own eyes, hold it with my own hands, and personally inspect the birth certificate I still don't believe it's real. I am not a racist by any means and don't appreciate being referred as one. I believe that all people regardless of race color creed or origin should be treated equal.[/QUOTE]

Do you even know what a creed is?
 
"I'm not racist" -- the statement that usually follows or precedes something incredibly racist.

"It shouldn't matter what you think that is your opinion and you have a right to it" -- While technically this could be construed as true, if people believe something incredibly wrong and stupid it's the duty of those around them to present facts to correct the baseless, wrong opinion. If you thought your car ran on chocolate, I would hope that people at the gas station would stop you from stuffing your gas tank full of snickers bars. The problem with people who believe that everyone can think what they want without challenge is that those people NEVER use reason to obtain those opinions, which makes it impossible to reason them out of them.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='DestroCobra']Like I said once before it's an open forum everyone has an opinion. I don't go bashing people for their opinions I don't care if you are a birther, Democratic Liberal, independent, Republican, Baby Boomer whatever. Stereotypes are dumb. It shouldn't matter what you think that is your opinion and you have a right to it. I consider myself independent because I believe in voting for who is going to do the job right. As far as the birth certificate I still stand on my opinion that it was photoshopped. Until I see it with my own eyes, hold it with my own hands, and personally inspect the birth certificate I still don't believe it's real. I am not a racist by any means and don't appreciate being referred as one. I believe that all people regardless of race color creed or origin should be treated equal.[/QUOTE]

Obvious troll is obvious
 
[quote name='DestroCobra']Like I said once before it's an open forum everyone has an opinion. I don't go bashing people for their opinions I don't care if you are a birther, Democratic Liberal, independent, Republican, Baby Boomer whatever. Stereotypes are dumb. It shouldn't matter what you think that is your opinion and you have a right to it. I consider myself independent because I believe in voting for who is going to do the job right. As far as the birth certificate I still stand on my opinion that it was photoshopped. Until I see it with my own eyes, hold it with my own hands, and personally inspect the birth certificate I still don't believe it's real. I am not a racist by any means and don't appreciate being referred as one. I believe that all people regardless of race color creed or origin should be treated equal.[/QUOTE]

Soooo, pretty much you wouldn't believe anyone was born here until you've gotten a chance to inspect the birth certificate right? I knew Bush was a dirty Canadian.
 
bread's done
Back
Top