Peter Moore on BC - "Nobody's concerened anymore..."

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One thing that Xbox 360 users with hard drives benefit from is backwards compatibility with Xbox 1 titles, but some gamers have been underwhelmed by the volume and quality of games that are compatible on the new system. It doesn't look like much is going to change either, based on Moore's latest comments in the interview. "Nobody is concerned anymore about backwards compatibility. We under promised and over delivered on that. It's a very complicated thing... very complex work. I'm just stunned that we have hundreds of games that are backwards compatible."
He added: "more are coming, but at some point, you just go, there's enough, let's move on, or people aren't as worried about a game being backwards compatible - and I like to think we've upheld our end of the bargain in making at least two or maybe three hundred games backwards compat."​
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(FYI Crappy written article, hard to understand where the questions starts and where the answers come in.)

Moore blows!!!!​
 
Bullshit. I have been waiting on mroe BC other than for games like Sneakers. Now I must keep my Xbox to play most of my games. Grand.
 
Come on why are you guys complaining? They gave us All Star Baseball 2003, Barbie, Dark Angel, MLS 2002, Lemony Snickett, Loons, and NHL Blitz 2002. Who cares about games like Morrowind, Prince of Persia 2 and 3, and Doom 3.
 
[quote name='Staind204']Come on why are you guys complaining? They gave us All Star Baseball 2003, Barbie, Dark Angel, MLS 2002, Lemony Snickett, Loons, and NHL Blitz 2002. Who cares about games like Morrowind, Prince of Persia 2 and 3, and Doom 3.[/QUOTE]

Don't forget Drake and Chicago Enforcer.
 
Wow, why did I have the feeling something like this would happen. Now the only way to play all the 2D fighters on live is with my old Xbox.
 
"under promised and over delivered"? Funny, I distinctly remember them promising EVERY Xbox game. Ah well, I guess Peter Moore sucks at math too. Maybe he meant over promised and under delivered and he's just a fucking moron. I'm pretty sure this is the same guy that was quoted by OXM as saying, in response to the $40 price tag of the memory unit, "you'd be surprised at how many people don't want to save their games." Yeah, I would, if that number is greater than 0.
 
[quote name='depascal22']This sucks. Now, I have to keep my Xbox to play half of my library. Looks like it might just be a Wii for me.[/QUOTE]

I knew it. I fucking called at the beginning of the year. Makes me think I'm in the wrong field when I can make dead-on predictions like that about these fucking asshole corporations.

Their eventual goal was to "someday try to have every XBox game" which I knew was a crock of shit, but to see them obviously winding it down well UNDER ONE YEAR from launch with minimal effort is disgusting. Lying to the customers like that seriously makes me want to dump my 360. I'll wait until the other stuff arrives, but for now, I won't be spending any more money on XBL so I don't feel stupid later if I wind up selling it.
 
Well Pete, have fun when Joe Retard buys the PS3 instead of the 360 because he can play all his PS2 games on it, whereas he can't do the same with his Xbox games. "Under promised and over delivered" my ass.
 
I like to think we've upheld our end of the bargain...
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That's what pisses me off the most. They originally said "Best Selling Titles", Barbie and other crap on the list were not best selling titles. To me best selling titles meant platinum hits. If all Platinum Hits were BC atleast they woul have upheld their end. I still love my 360 and have my XBOX to play games on but if they lied about this...
 
[quote name='Brak']Moore's right.[/QUOTE]

Obviously there are plenty of people still concerned with BC.
 
[quote name='Brak']Moore's right.[/QUOTE]

Seconded. Moore is a scum bag, but he's right. Prior to getting my 360, I was causing the world's biggest stink about backwards compatibility. I swore I wouldn't buy one till all 200+ of my games would play on the 360.

After I picked it up, I stopped caring about backwards compatibility and focused on 360 games. I wasn't stupid enough to believe in that "Everything will be backwards compatible" horseshit that was fed around so I kept my original Xbox around to finish Indigo Prophecy and the like.

Microsoft knows that the average fan gave up wanting NCAA 06 Football backwards compatible because NCAA 07 Football for the 360 is on its way.
 
[quote name='terribledeli']Seconded. Moore is a scum bag, but he's right. Prior to getting my 360, I was causing the world's biggest stink about backwards compatibility. I swore I wouldn't buy one till all 200+ of my games would play on the 360.

After I picked it up, I stopped caring about backwards compatibility and focused on 360 games. I wasn't stupid enough to believe in that "Everything will be backwards compatible" horseshit that was fed around so I kept my original Xbox around to finish Indigo Prophecy and the like.

Microsoft knows that the average fan gave up wanting NCAA 06 Football backwards compatible because NCAA 07 Football for the 360 is on its way.[/QUOTE]


I totally disagree. I have had the 360 since December and have barely touched it. The only games I've played worth a damn are Oblivion ,COD2, GRAW, and Burnout Revenge (which is a port). I would actually be getting some playtime out of the 360 if some decent regular Xbox games worked on it. I certainly still care about backwards compatibility.
 
How is that a lie? Microsoft stated from the get-go that the 360 wasn't going to be backwards compatable. That's what they call an "under promise".

Then we have people complaining, for the sake of complaining, that the console should be backwards compatable -- when, in my opinion, and others, Microsoft should focus on future technologies -- and Microsoft delivered... not entirely, though, as people don't seem to realize that developers of past titles have to create emulation software for each title for free. And that would be the "over delivered" portion of the deal.

If playing last-generation games is that big of a deal, play them on an Xbox. Backwards compatability, in regards to old software playing on new hardware (which needs software written to do so; unlike PSX to PS2, as it used similar hardware), is a fucking joke -- it sucks. Try playing Call of Cthulhu on your 360; you can't see half of the cut-scenes because it's running off of emulation software.
 
[quote name='Staind204']I totally disagree. I have had the 360 since December and have barely touched it. The only games I've played worth a damn are Oblivion ,COD2, GRAW, and Burnout Revenge (which is a port). I would actually be getting some playtime out of the 360 if some decent regular Xbox games worked on it. I certainly still care about backwards compatibility.[/QUOTE]

But you're not the rule, you're the exception. Furthermore, you're implying you bought a 360 to play Xbox titles? Why did you buy a 360 then? To play games that were cheaper on the PC and other consoles?

I'm in no way defending Microsoft's shitty turnface on its fanbase, but face the facts...we all knew this was going to happen and it did.
 
[quote name='Brak']How is that a lie? Microsoft stated from the get-go that the 360 wasn't going to be backwards compatable. That's what they call an "under promise".

Then we have people complaining, for the sake of complaining, that the console should be backwards compatable -- when, in my opinion, and others, Microsoft should focus on future technologies -- and Microsoft delivered... not entirely, though, as people don't seem to realize that developers of past titles have to create emulation software for each title for free. And that would be the "over delivered" portion of the deal.[/QUOTE]


Todd Holmdahl, Corporate Vice President of the Xbox Product Group, said that all updates will be free, and available online or via snail mail. That said, there are some notable titles missing from the list, including some personal favorites such as Burnout 3, Tony Hawk Pro-Skater 2 & 3, and more recent games such as Burnout Revenge and Doom 3. Holmdahl, however, indicated that more games will be added in the future, partially based on gamers' requests, and that the company was going to work with game developers to make sure that titles developed for the original Xbox in the future will also be compatible. Holmdahl said that the company eventually plans to support the entire catalog for the original Xbox on the Xbox 360.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051112-5558.html
 
[quote name='Staind204']Todd Holmdahl, Corporate Vice President of the Xbox Product Group, said that all updates will be free, and available online or via snail mail. That said, there are some notable titles missing from the list, including some personal favorites such as Burnout 3, Tony Hawk Pro-Skater 2 & 3, and more recent games such as Burnout Revenge and Doom 3. Holmdahl, however, indicated that more games will be added in the future, partially based on gamers' requests, and that the company was going to work with game developers to make sure that titles developed for the original Xbox in the future will also be compatible. Holmdahl said that the company eventually plans to support the entire catalog for the original Xbox on the Xbox 360.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051112-5558.html[/QUOTE]
Ok.

If your mom said she'd give you $20 for mowing the lawn, then gave you $5, would the first offer be voided by the fact that she gave you $5?

In regards to quoting articles, let's look back on Moore's statement. He's not saying there won't be any more BC updates -- in fact, they're working on one currently, if I remember right. Now, I wouldn't doubt if the next one would be the last... but, really... if you bought a 360 to play Xbox games on it, you're a jackoff.
 
Trying to be positive here, but what if the next BC update is a HUGE (50-100 games) one with tons of great games on it? I think if that happened people would be ok with it dying off.
 
Isn't there roughly 150 games available now? If they double that (he said 200 - 300), and add some good ones into that mix it shouldn't be that big of a deal.
 
[quote name='Brak']Ok.

If your mom said she'd give you $20 for mowing the lawn, then gave you $5, would the first offer be voided by the fact that she gave you $5?

In regards to quoting articles, let's look back on Moore's statement. He's not saying there won't be any more BC updates -- in fact, they're working on one currently, if I remember right. Now, I wouldn't doubt if the next one would be the last... but, really... if you bought a 360 to play Xbox games on it, you're a jackoff.[/QUOTE]


He is saying that they aren't going to fulfil their promise to make all Xbox games BC which they DID originally say they would do. I didn't buy a 360 JUST to play Xbox games, but yes that is one of the reasons I picked up the system. If that makes me a jackoff, then so be it. We could sit here and argue about it all day, but nothing changes the fact that M$ is going back on their word to make all games BC.
 
[quote name='Brak']Ok.

If your mom said she'd give you $20 for mowing the lawn, then gave you $5, would the first offer be voided by the fact that she gave you $5?

In regards to quoting articles, let's look back on Moore's statement. He's not saying there won't be any more BC updates -- in fact, they're working on one currently, if I remember right. Now, I wouldn't doubt if the next one would be the last... but, really... if you bought a 360 to play Xbox games on it, you're a jackoff.[/quote]
But if you sold your old xbox due to x360's promised BC, then what are you?
 
[quote name='ryanbph']Isn't there roughly 150 games available now? If they double that (he said 200 - 300), and add some good ones into that mix it shouldn't be that big of a deal.[/QUOTE]


That's what Im thinking now. Before we all get upset, it might turn out that only the worst games don't end up on the list.

So I guess we all have to just wait and see.
 
[quote name='terribledeli']Seconded. Moore is a scum bag, but he's right. Prior to getting my 360, I was causing the world's biggest stink about backwards compatibility. I swore I wouldn't buy one till all 200+ of my games would play on the 360.

After I picked it up, I stopped caring about backwards compatibility and focused on 360 games.[/QUOTE]

No offense, but you're exactly the kind of customer Microsoft wants - willing to forgive anything as long as you're happy. That's dangerous thinking - even if it was a feature I didn't CARE about, it would STILL BOTHER ME because they lied to their customers, and the next time around it might be something I actually wanted.

Hell fucking NO they should not be let off the hook on this, people need to raise hell until they are forced to do something, not that I expect it to happen.

I'll wait until the next update - if there IS a next update - to make my final decision, but I've never been more tempted to jump off now while I can still get some good money for my 360.

But you're not the rule, you're the exception.
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Looking at this thread, that is obviously not the case.

[quote name='Brak']How is that a lie? Microsoft stated from the get-go that the 360 wasn't going to be backwards compatable. That's what they call an "under promise".[/QUOTE]
I can guarantee you that Microsoft never once said "the 360 is not backwards compatible" in any official form. What kind of fucked-up, bassackwards marketing would that be? This is the main reason so many people are pissed off now - they made it seem like they would make a sincere effort to get everything on there. I don't think anyone was expecting EVERYTHING, but it's obvious they're not even trying.

[quote name='Brak']Then we have people complaining, for the sake of complaining, that the console should be backwards compatable[/quote]
They're complaining because they were lied to about the features of their 400 dollar system. Whether you actually care about that feature personally is irrelevant.

This "focusing on future technologies" cop-out is bullshit. Microsoft has near limitless resources. There is absolutely nothing preventing them from working on BC-compliance for as long as they want, and it won't impede the development of Live Anywhere or whatever innovation I'll never use is on tap. By the same point I gave above, I realize it doesn't matter what I think about THAT feature, but that's the argument here - there are a lot of people who want both of these things. Dismissing people wanting backwards compatibility at this point as a "small vocal minority" as Moore (and some people here, apparently) seem to be doing is pretty misguided.

If playing last-generation games is that big of a deal, play them on an Xbox.
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That's not really the point here.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']Isn't there roughly 150 games available now? If they double that (he said 200 - 300), and add some good ones into that mix it shouldn't be that big of a deal.[/quote]

I think we're currently at 207ish BC out of 573. Can anyone verify my numbers?
 
[quote name='Brak']Ok.

If your mom said she'd give you $20 for mowing the lawn, then gave you $5, would the first offer be voided by the fact that she gave you $5?

In regards to quoting articles, let's look back on Moore's statement. He's not saying there won't be any more BC updates -- in fact, they're working on one currently, if I remember right. Now, I wouldn't doubt if the next one would be the last... but, really... if you bought a 360 to play Xbox games on it, you're a jackoff.[/QUOTE]

Well, I bought a 360 to play 360 games, and with the expectation that I would eventually be able to play my Xbox catalog on it as well. Roughly 33% of my games are playable on my 360. Am I happy with that? Not at all. Have I been patient waiting for BC updates? Somewhat, but not entirely.

Like others, I had faith in the statement that they would eventually support every Xbox title, seeing as how that article you're chiding came from a MS rep's mouth.

Y'know, as much as I want to loathe Sony for their $600 albatross of a console, it has a decade and three generations of fully compatible software for it. With the Wii being BC as well with the GC, BC is the norm. Microsoft promised, and failed to deliver on, BC. fuck them, and fuck Peter Moore, for failing to do as promised. Why not just tell us that True Fantasy Live Online is being made for 360 and cancel it later, if only to piss people off more?

Y'know, I'm *SURE* that there is some tracking service that shows what number/percentage of 360 users downloaded BC software. I'm also sure they're basing their attempts to add BC titles based off of this data. I'm also sure that it's flawed data, because I don't imagine there are many people downloading boot files for Barbie's Buttfucking Horse. Such data would be full of "selection bias," as it goes.
 
Ugh, whatever. I haven't played an Xbox game since I got my 360. If there's anything out current gen I REALLY want, I'll just get it for my PS2. I've played all the Xbox exclusives I wanted to.
 
I'm not thrilled with the mindset, but I also have to agree that he's right. They made most customers happy when Halo and Halo 2 were BC. Beyond that, only the early adopters and most hardcore really cared. And most of the games that we here are hoping for - say Otogi, or some great obscure title - didn't sell enough to really have people crying (I think that game sold around 30,000 copies). I have a few BC games I haven't gotten to yet such as Call of Cthulu, Chaos Theory, and Half Life 2. But honestly, the games have been good enough and frequent enough for the 360 releases that I haven't had time to mess with them.

The bottem line is that if you look outside of places like game forums, most people probably don't care or even realize that they can play many of the xbox games out there. Most people bought a 360 because they wanted next gen, and that's what they're playing.

None of that justifies MS giving up on their commitment, but if they come to a point now where they say we've tried and we just can't get any more of these games to work, I'd really care less. And MS knows this.
 
[quote name='mykevermin'] Y'know, as much as I want to loathe Sony for their $600 albatross of a console, it has a decade and three generations of fully compatible software for it. With the Wii being BC as well with the GC, BC is the norm. Microsoft promised, and failed to deliver on, BC.[/QUOTE]

Bingo. I meant to mention that eariler but it slipped through, but it's another valid point. Backwards compatibility has been the industry standard for a enough years now to where it's pretty inexcusable not to offer it. The Revolution does it with the GC (and more, but that's more of an XBLA-level thing), and the PS3 does it with their previous offering as well.

I sure as shit won't buy a PS3 on launch day, and I'd rather not buy one at all - but if I dropped my 360 this year and got a Revolution to hold me over then nabbed a PS3 later on...the number of potential games I would be able to play would completely dwarf the 360...and the only blame for that goes to Microsoft.



That's enough for me for now. I'm probably just as pissed off at myself for holding out a tiny bit of hope that Microsoft would actually deliver on something like that as I am it actually happening. That's fine though, my wallet will do my talking from here on.
 
It's annoying to say the least. I'm not devastated or anything especially since I still have my original Xbox, but it would've been nice to be able to ditch the giant sonuvabitch Xbox and just play everything on the 360. BC is important. Sony and Nintendo have it so MS really looks like they're lacking when they fail to offer a feature that a lot of people want. I don't care what Moore believes, MS seriously underdelivered with BC.
 
I never remember then saying that all the games will be B/C. IIRC, it started out that it would be B/C, then none will be B/C then the top games will be B/C. That was the last statement I remember about B/C. It would be nice if most/all games are B/C, but besides halo 2, I have never played a B/C game on my 360, or my ps2. Once I beat/stop playing a game, I am usually done with it and don't care to play it again. I know some have other views on it, but saying that B/C is necessary for the 360 due to comments in this thread is sort of narrow minded.

I have several non gaming message board friends who own 360's. None of them have any interest in B/C. Most of them don't even bother firing up halo 2 from time to time. I have 1 friend that is interested in B/C, but he doesn't own a 360 yet, and hasn't owned a console since the nes was out.
 
I think backwards compatibility is a huge selling point. I recently picked up a PS2 and I've played more PSX games on it than PS2 ones. When a console is BC it allows the user to play MANY more games for the system. This is a huge selling point to me.
 
How reliable is the source of this interview? It isn't a site that I recognize, but that really isn't saying much.

If there are games that you really want to be B/C, email msft about it. There spring B/C update (while very small) were games that consumers had demanded. The soon to be released dashboard update have several updates that 360 owners wanted. In interviews with major nelson for the B/C and the dashboard updates, both interviewee's stated that feedback from the community is what drove them in there decisions. Don't bitch here, bitch to them about it. They appear to be listening
 
I'm concerned, and I'd rather not have to rebuy most of my games on PS2/3 because of this issue. At the very least get Psychonauts and Oddworld Stranger on the list.

Otherwise, what are some of the notable exclusive games missing?
 
Come on people. You should have seen this coming. Once Microsoft announced the switch from Intel CPU (Xbox) to PowerPC CPUs (360) there was NO WAY backwards compatibility would be easily achieved. Hell, the only reason Sony was able to do it on the PS2 was because they found a way to make the PS1 into a single chip! Even then, they weren't 100%.

My sympathies go out to you guys but really, you should have seen this coming.
 
Does this piss me off? Yes...but I will get over it. I bought the 360 with the hopes that I would be able to play some Xbox games that I missed out on. Too bad the only game that I wanted to play that is backwards compatible is Crimson Skies. I'm bummed that they never added support for Panzer Dragoon Orta, or MechAssault. But I'm especially angry that I'll never get to try Steel Battalion - not that I held out much hope that the 360 would ever be able to play it, since it requires that outrageous controller.
 
would people respect this decision more if he told the truth?

something like, we envisioned to make all the popular games BC but after a while we realized it would be too hard and shifted our focus to making other things
 
Haven't even tried an Xbox game on my 360 since Fable. Even then, it was terribly cut up..and not just cut scenes. And I back Brak when he said at first that BC might not even happen. So, in fact, Moore was pretty much dead on. I think they did over-deliver, although I see why people would want more games in the next update. I agree that the next one will probably be the last update, and, if you bought your 360 solely for playing old games and maybe a couple next gen games, that's bogus. If you bought the 360 MAINLY for next gen games and you figured BC would be a little extra on the side, then what are you complaining about? You still got what you wanted in the beginning.
 
Time to go Wii, Wii, Wii all the way home. :lol:

The 360's half-assed attempts at BC was really the only thing that really concerned me about the system. I feel for the people who traded in the original Xboxes.
 
I'm still impatiently waiting for these games to make the list....

BACKWARDSGAMES.jpg



Not to mention some of the games that have made the cut are near unplayable.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Time to go Wii, Wii, Wii all the way home. :lol:

The 360's half-assed attempts at BC was really the only thing that really concerned me about the system. I feel for the people who traded in the original Xboxes.[/QUOTE]

I put mine away, because it's modded (OOOH! BAD MEE!!) and didn't want to trade it in, but rather sell it to someone who would use it, and I think part of me saw this coming. I still have it if I need it, I suppose - but I really don't wanna plug that much more shit into my telly, or even keep it for that matter.
 
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