Phoenix Wright 2 - Justice for All! Due in Q1 2007! (NOW WITH PICS!!)

I'm almost at the end of Case 3 and I'm enjoying the game so far, but I noticed a hell of a lot more typos than the first one, but it doesn't bother me that much.

Finally, the Best Buy's by me FINALLY have Hotel Dusk, going to use a GGC on it and switch off from PW2 and HD.
 
I've put some time into, and despite some flaws people have pointed out (typos, spelling, etc.) the game is amazing. I will buy every Phoenix Wright game that ever comes out.

I did get stuck on one part, though
It was when I came back to Kurain Village and talked to Pearls. She has 2 locks, and I figured I was supposed to show her the black key to get her to talk. Instead of just showing it to her, I kept on doing it while she was under the psyche-lock. Took me forever! I finally got it and got through the 2nd case.

It's a shame I'm going to have to put it down for a few days. I have some other 'real' work to do!
 
I'm at the end of the final case and somehow I found this game to be disappointing. I think the logic sometimes is ridiculous. First of all, the judge is the biggest, most gullible moron ever. No real judge is that stupid. I bet if someone told him to jump off a 100-story building, he'd do it. I also found it annoying how Franziska would whip everyone, including the judge. I can see her threatening it or whipping the whip in people's faces, but actually whipping people? Give me a break, SHE'D be on the defendant's stand anywhere else in real life or otherwise.

Also, many pieces of evidence illustrate the same point, yet the game only accepts one single evidence as the answer? Why is this? I think that's pretty lazy on the developers' part; it's like a guessing game at times. And the fact that you sometimes get only one chance or it's game over with such restrictions is asinine.

I don't get why everyone has a hard on over the last case.
So what, Phoenix FINALLY gets a client who is actually guilty? About damn time. Nothing about this should be particularly shocking or anything considering what happens in the real world with defense attorneys. Phoenix also acts like a dumbass during the case. Andrews has no real motive that would constitute murder. How could killing Corrida, one of the only people who knows the truth about Inpax's death, get her anywhere with the suicide note? And it's absolutely mind-boggling that he didn't recognize de Killer when he went to Engarde's mansion. The dude has stitches all down the middle of his face!! How can you forget that?!

Anyway, I was kinda disappointed with this game after loving the original. The typos were the least of my concerns with it, unlike everyone else here.
 
I was about to ask if you had played the first game until reading your last statement. ;)

I found the whipping to be obnoxious at times, but the judge is exactly the same as he was in the first one.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']I'm at the end of the final case and somehow I found this game to be disappointing. I think the logic sometimes is ridiculous. First of all, the judge is the biggest, most gullible moron ever. No real judge is that stupid. I bet if someone told him to jump off a 100-story building, he'd do it. I also found it annoying how Franziska would whip everyone, including the judge. I can see her threatening it or whipping the whip in people's faces, but actually whipping people? Give me a break, SHE'D be on the defendant's stand anywhere else in real life or otherwise.

Also, many pieces of evidence illustrate the same point, yet the game only accepts one single evidence as the answer? Why is this? I think that's pretty lazy on the developers' part; it's like a guessing game at times. And the fact that you sometimes get only one chance or it's game over with such restrictions is asinine.


Anyway, I was kinda disappointed with this game after loving the original. The typos were the least of my concerns with it, unlike everyone else here.[/QUOTE]

I don't know, some of those points are why I find the game to be charming: The gullible-ass judge, the insanely evil prosecutors; you really have to feel for Phoenix who's just hopelessly outmatched. I agree with some of the logic problems though, I hate only having one option to present as evidence. Hopefully it'll be corrected in the ground-up DS version, but as it stands I'm still enjoying this one.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']I'm at the end of the final case and somehow I found this game to be disappointing. I think the logic sometimes is ridiculous. First of all, the judge is the biggest, most gullible moron ever. No real judge is that stupid. I bet if someone told him to jump off a 100-story building, he'd do it. I also found it annoying how Franziska would whip everyone, including the judge. I can see her threatening it or whipping the whip in people's faces, but actually whipping people? Give me a break, SHE'D be on the defendant's stand anywhere else in real life or otherwise.

Also, many pieces of evidence illustrate the same point, yet the game only accepts one single evidence as the answer? Why is this? I think that's pretty lazy on the developers' part; it's like a guessing game at times. And the fact that you sometimes get only one chance or it's game over with such restrictions is asinine.

I don't get why everyone has a hard on over the last case.
So what, Phoenix FINALLY gets a client who is actually guilty? About damn time. Nothing about this should be particularly shocking or anything considering what happens in the real world with defense attorneys. Phoenix also acts like a dumbass during the case. Andrews has no real motive that would constitute murder. How could killing Corrida, one of the only people who knows the truth about Inpax's death, get her anywhere with the suicide note? And it's absolutely mind-boggling that he didn't recognize de Killer when he went to Engarde's mansion. The dude has stitches all down the middle of his face!! How can you forget that?!

Anyway, I was kinda disappointed with this game after loving the original. The typos were the least of my concerns with it, unlike everyone else here.[/QUOTE]

I guess I don't see how it's much different than the first one. Ridiculous courtroom antics, singular plotlines in regards to evidence, gullible judge.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']Also, many pieces of evidence illustrate the same point, yet the game only accepts one single evidence as the answer? Why is this? I think that's pretty lazy on the developers' part; it's like a guessing game at times. And the fact that you sometimes get only one chance or it's game over with such restrictions is asinine.[/quote]

I hate hate HATE that.
 
You're finding faults in the genre, not the game, though. Adventure games (call it what you want) typically only have one way to solve a puzzle. Multiple solutions were by far the minority because that meant pieces of inventory could be used for more than one thing or whatever and would only create more confusion. I'm still playing the first one (on the last case), but so far in that game at least the puzzles are logical instead of hooking an inflatable duck to a hook, etc etc. I play adventure games, but nevertheless I'm having a blast playing it, and not having to sit with a walkthrough the entire time.
 
[quote name='spiwak']You're finding faults in the genre, not the game, though. Adventure games (call it what you want) typically only have one way to solve a puzzle. Multiple solutions were by far the minority because that meant pieces of inventory could be used for more than one thing or whatever and would only create more confusion. I'm still playing the first one (on the last case), but so far in that game at least the puzzles are logical instead of hooking an inflatable duck to a hook, etc etc. I play adventure games, but nevertheless I'm having a blast playing it, and not having to sit with a walkthrough the entire time.[/quote]
I realize that it's a fault of the entire genre, but most other games of the genre don't give you only one chance, under the threat of taking at least half an hour to get back to where you were.

I know that your motivation for not dying in almost ANY video game is "not having to start over," but Phoenix Wright takes it to the extreme.
 
Yeah the plotline problems I had were present in the first game, but they really got to me here for some reason. Maybe because I had already experienced the first game and was used to it and didn't find it amusing anymore.

The thing with the solutions in Phoenix Wright is that often they only give you one chance and it's game over if you fuck up. They don't tell you you only get one chance until it's too late to save if you think you might fuck up. And unlike many adventure games, Phoenix Wright has a lot of different pieces of evidence that could be used in the same way.
For example, in the last case, I object to Andrews's statement that she thought Corrida was only sleeping/passed out and not dead. I present the knife which was obviously in his chest. Penalized, the judge saying it does not have to do with what she said. Uh... so I try the autopsy report that says he was stabbed and found with a knife in his chest. Penalized again. fuck that. Turns out I had to show them the PICTURE of the crime scene. What the fuck difference would it have made?

Needless to say if these flaws do not change in the sequels, I am not buying them. Also, the thing with Franziska's whip.... sure people did stuff they shouldn't have in the first game during court, but it was mostly people talking out of turn and crap. The whipping is just unbelievably asinine IMO even though it's a fantasy game.
 
[quote name='62t']nope. It is also Galactica in Japanese.[/quote]
Maybe someone on the Japanese team was a fan of Battlestar Galactica. ;)
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']Yeah the plotline problems I had were present in the first game, but they really got to me here for some reason. Maybe because I had already experienced the first game and was used to it and didn't find it amusing anymore.

The thing with the solutions in Phoenix Wright is that often they only give you one chance and it's game over if you fuck up. They don't tell you you only get one chance until it's too late to save if you think you might fuck up. And unlike many adventure games, Phoenix Wright has a lot of different pieces of evidence that could be used in the same way.
For example, in the last case, I object to Andrews's statement that she thought Corrida was only sleeping/passed out and not dead. I present the knife which was obviously in his chest. Penalized, the judge saying it does not have to do with what she said. Uh... so I try the autopsy report that says he was stabbed and found with a knife in his chest. Penalized again. fuck that. Turns out I had to show them the PICTURE of the crime scene. What the fuck difference would it have made?

Needless to say if these flaws do not change in the sequels, I am not buying them. Also, the thing with Franziska's whip.... sure people did stuff they shouldn't have in the first game during court, but it was mostly people talking out of turn and crap. The whipping is just unbelievably asinine IMO even though it's a fantasy game.[/quote]

Well I would agree that having the ability of a game over is kind of lame. Especially when you have only one save file. I typically just save whenever I have a choice to make on screen. As for for the whippings, I of course haven't seen it but half the fun in this game is the absurdity of the "courtroom drama"; it's well aware that the Phoenix Wright legal system is completely bonkers and plays it up ad nauseam but amusingly. Not to sound like I'm defending a game I haven't played (which I guess I am, technically)...but I don't simply tolerate those points in the first, I find them the most refreshing aspects of the writing. I guess we'll see how much I enjoy the second when I get to it, though.
 
Just wanted to address a few tingies here and there.

I think DoK has a point...to a point.

I don't know if this was the case for PW1, but in 2, you could save it much like an emulator's save state. Even during some of the bigger decisions to be made, you could save out, load up, try a few things, and if you lost too much "life," you could backout really quickly (I did the start+select+L+r soft resets a lot). Granted, I paid my dues in this game (and still am - I'm on case 4) and definitely went through that stuff in PW1, but my point is that you could save-state around things pretty easily if you wanted. So that eliminated some of the frustration. Point being is that I dunno if I could do that in the first one or not. It could have saved me several hours. I'm doing it here quite a bit because the decisions can be very much "end game now" scenarios.

Secondly, let us not forget this is a game, people. It's meant to be outrageous, it's meant to be goofy. That's the hallmark of the PW line - sensationalistic characters, sometimes illogical and outrageous plots and circumstances, and about six helpings of coincidence. I don't think it's fair to leverage some complaints at PW because these types of rants seem too selective. By which I mean, if you're going to do that, I'm going to hold you to the wall when you come telling me how X is a brilliant game, when I can so easily pick apart how outrageous it is. A good example is pretty much every single game out there, so I don't think you're going to escape my vengeful and swift wrath.

Finally, I must echo Tycho's comments today in his post, which more or less equate to "I can overlook the fact that it is PW 1.5, save for a few things like Psyche-locks, with the fact that the novelty is still so resonating." That's a big paraphrase on my part, but that's his deal - innovation is being sacrificed here for the sake of a fun story and fun gameplay.

PW2 could be PW 1.5 and I wouldn't care (and it kinda is). This idea that something simply must be innovative and provide you with countless new gameplay additions seems to be a product of the current generation of gamers, where if something's sequel doesn't wow them in the way the first one did, they immediately hold it to higher standards. Torches and pitchforks and the like. Suddenly we see a lot of supporters from the first round dropping their emblems and anthems and screaming about how "why couldn't they try something new?"

I might be out of line here, but that's a pretty harsh and conceited way of looking at a game. And beyond that, it's pretty selfish. It is a vicious cycle I've noticed - where a sequel that is more of what you wanted when you finished the first game - isn't heralded as fun, but more like a disappointment. I can't stand this kind of logic, and moreoever I can't stand this kind of attitude with certain series, because it sounds like so much whining. "Well it didn't do anything new." So the hell what? When a game like this comes out and people play through it, all I see are "MAN I can't wait for the sequel!" Then it comes and people are like "Yeah wutever I got bored halfway thru and it's nto as good."

I just don't comprehend that. If you want more of the same type of game and then whine when it comes out, then what do you really want? You want something new. And if that's the case, don't play the sequel, or at least go into it with - in my opinion - some more understanding. Because I just don't get it. I hear this thing all over the place in different situations. Like when you go with your friend to their favorite restaurant, and you're treating for their birthday, and all they can say is "My ____ was way better 2 years ago, this one is just okay." Then wtf? Why did you ask me to bring you here?

Truth be told, there is room for doubt and concern, and there are no clear distinctions between where "more of the same" becomes "repetitive" instead of "innovative and forwardly-moving." At times a game can be good because it does something brand new - Katamari Damacy - and at other times it can still be good even if it only expands on those principles - We
 
I, um... just found out that you can save the game between the pre-appointed Save Points. I've been using Sleep Mode for two whole PW games.

Oops.
 
[quote name='Vegan']I, um... just found out that you can save the game between the pre-appointed Save Points. I've been using Sleep Mode for two whole PW games.

Oops.[/quote]:lol:

And to answer Strell's initial question above: yes you could save at just about any time in the first game as well.
 
[quote name='munch']How do you save?[/quote]Start. Causes the game to suspend, but it takes all of two seconds to get back into it.
 
[quote name='botticus']Start. Causes the game to suspend, but it takes all of two seconds to get back into it.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that. I've been putting it to sleep, too.
 
[quote name='Vegan']I, um... just found out that you can save the game between the pre-appointed Save Points. I've been using Sleep Mode for two whole PW games.

Oops.[/QUOTE]
:lol:

God people, even I knew that. I'm pretty sure it says it right in the game itself.

Strell: When I see a sequel, I expect some improvement, not more of the same flaws. They made no effort to improve upon the first game. The Psyche-Locks were new, but they aren't an improvement, they're just a different way of getting testimony that's basically the same as before, just flashier.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']:lol:

God people, even I knew that. I'm pretty sure it says it right in the game itself.

Strell: When I see a sequel, I expect some improvement, not more of the same flaws. They made no effort to improve upon the first game. The Psyche-Locks were new, but they aren't an improvement, they're just a different way of getting testimony that's basically the same as before, just flashier.[/quote]I give them a bit of a long leash for these games for one reason: These games were developed a relatively long time ago. The 3rd game, which isn't even on the horizon here yet, was put out in 2004 (can't find a release date for the first two). It's not as if Capcom could look at the response to the first game from the US audience and then adjust the seqeuel accordingly. It is what it is. I expect the third game to be more of the same.

The 4th game is where I expect this series to have something of a new vision, given that it will have been developed while or after the US release of the first game, and is built for the DS, hopefully giving us the enhancements we saw in the 5th case of the first game, and then some.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']:lol:

God people, even I knew that. I'm pretty sure it says it right in the game itself.

Strell: When I see a sequel, I expect some improvement, not more of the same flaws. They made no effort to improve upon the first game. The Psyche-Locks were new, but they aren't an improvement, they're just a different way of getting testimony that's basically the same as before, just flashier.[/quote]

Hmm, what flaws, exactly? The only things I wish they would do is add more save files for the game (to be fair, I did have to search the manual to find out how to save; I use that particular a lot) and a load feature so you don't have to restart the DS every time you mess up. Otherwise there aren't really any flaws from an adventure gaming perspective, that I can see.
 
[quote name='munch']Thanks for that. I've been putting it to sleep, too.[/quote]
Wow. That reminds me of a friend who played Baldur's Gate 2 on the PC and didn't know the spacebar would pause the game until after he beat it and I told him. Knowing the spacebar paused the game would have made combat about 100 times easier for him.
 
[quote name='spiwak']Hmm, what flaws, exactly? The only things I wish they would do is add more save files for the game (to be fair, I did have to search the manual to find out how to save; I use that particular a lot) and a load feature so you don't have to restart the DS every time you mess up. Otherwise there aren't really any flaws from an adventure gaming perspective, that I can see.[/quote]
Text that you can't speed up. Even when you "die" and have to replay a section. All I ask for is text that can be sped up. Instead they include it as the lamest "unlockable" anyone has ever awarded to someone who beats their game.
 
I don't mind the speed of the text. It gives you a good idea of how fast the characters are talking. I really loved it in the first game when Oldbag would be saying stuff so quickly you couldn't read it.
 
[quote name='Vegan']Text that you can't speed up. Even when you "die" and have to replay a section. All I ask for is text that can be sped up. Instead they include it as the lamest "unlockable" anyone has ever awarded to someone who beats their game.[/quote]
Heh heh, I find it funny how text speed is suddenly such a big deal to everyone. Phoenix Wright's text speed, I thought, was fast enough. It kept up with my reading pace, and if you save often you don't have to do too much regurgitating at the same text speed when you reload.

I dunno, I think having the ability to speed up the text is only asking people to pay less attention to the dialogue itself since they'll be trying to speed through it.

Also, as Kaijufan said, the text speed was used as a dramatic device at times, which was cool.
 
I agree with the speed of the text the first time around, but I really think the ability to skip text the second time around, if you've died and continued, should be there.

Well, I finished it last night. It was good but not great like the first game. Maybe I got spoiled on that experience. The plotlines were good, but it's the elements that I see as "design flaws" plus the poor attention to spelling and grammar this time around that left me simply wanted the game to be done with as I got closer to the end. The first game, I didn't want to end.

I liked the Pysche-locks, adding Cross-Examination elements into the Investigation segments of the game, but they often caused me to go into the Trial segments with not-so-much energy if I did poorly on the Psyche-Locks.

I liked the game, but it just wasn't "great." If you haven't played either, I would definately make the effort to find a copy of the first game instead of this one.
 
I just finished it. The ending was adorable. I wish I was as intrigued and entertained by the rest of the game as I was the ending. I thought the last case dragged on for WAYYY too long, and I was about to just stop playing even at the very end without finishing it because it was boring me (we already knew the outcome like halfway in!!), but I'm glad I finished it because the ending was the best part of the game.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']I thought the last case dragged on for WAYYY too long, and I was about to just stop playing even at the very end without finishing it because it was boring me (we already knew the outcome like halfway in!!), but I'm glad I finished it because the ending was the best part of the game.[/quote]

Nothing compared to Case 5 of the first game.

But I thought the twist of the case was pretty cool:
being blackmailed to defend someone who you know is guilty.

And the "moral" was great, too. It's not about winning or losing. It's about the search for the truth, for both the prosecution and defense.
 
Finished the game yesterday. They better bring over 3 and 4. I loved it. It was better than the first if you ask me. But, it seemed shorter. I bought it Sunday and finished Tuesday...
 
[quote name='Vegan']Nothing compared to Case 5 of the first game.[/QUOTE]
Interestingly, I never finished Case 5 of the first game. I plan on going back to it sometime in the next few weeks to finish it. I just needed to move on to a bunch of other games in my backlog when I was playing through it.
 
Just finished Case 3. Enjoyable characters, but I liked Case 2 a whole lot more.

I'm starting Case 4 soon. Judging by the little cutscene after Case 3 ended....this one should be very interesting.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']Interestingly, I never finished Case 5 of the first game. I plan on going back to it sometime in the next few weeks to finish it. I just needed to move on to a bunch of other games in my backlog when I was playing through it.[/QUOTE]
Case 5 is better than all the other cases in the two games. And you know why? Because it has Ema Skye!
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']Interestingly, I never finished Case 5 of the first game. I plan on going back to it sometime in the next few weeks to finish it. I just needed to move on to a bunch of other games in my backlog when I was playing through it.[/quote]

It took me something like a week to get through.
 
Just a note after listening to the CAGcast:

According to Wombat's Capcom contact, if PW2 sells well, expect to see 3 and 4 localized. If it does not, then don't hold your breath. Somewhat common sense, but sad to see it laid out as such. Spread the word!
 
[quote name='asianxcore']Just finished Case 3. Enjoyable characters, but I liked Case 2 a whole lot more.

I'm starting Case 4 soon. Judging by the little cutscene after Case 3 ended....this one should be very interesting.[/QUOTE]

I'm also through Case 3, and I agree that it's one of the worst. The characters are getting stale, and the case is dragging now. I hope 4 is better.
 
[quote name='munch']I'm also through Case 3, and I agree that it's one of the worst. The characters are getting stale, and the case is dragging now. I hope 4 is better.[/quote]3 is alright, but 4 is fantastic.
 
Ugh, I'm stuck at the beginning of Case 3 right now. The translations are getting a bit lame, and Maya is getting somewhat annoying. Actually, every character is pretty annoying, even Phoenix's thoughts are pretty wtf.

Agree though, case 5 of PW1 was great. Ema Skye > Maya Fey
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']Case 4 was just TOO fuckING LONG, and they just dragged out long after we knew what the verdict would be.[/quote]
How could you have known what the verdict was going to be? In fact,
you CHOOSE the verdict.
I spent the whole case wondering what Phoenix was going to do. You always know what the verdict of every Phoenix Wright case is going to be, EXCEPT that one, I'd say.
 
I only laughed out loud once the entire game so far while I laughed many times in the first.

Case 4 trial spoilers
Phoenix thinks "The Judge (Might have ths character wrong) is glaring right at Mia" Mia replies "He's glaring at you smart guy."
 
[quote name='botticus']Just a note after listening to the CAGcast:

According to Wombat's Capcom contact, if PW2 sells well, expect to see 3 and 4 localized. If it does not, then don't hold your breath. Somewhat common sense, but sad to see it laid out as such. Spread the word![/QUOTE]
Not exactly secret information. A Capcom rep posted this in a topic on the official boards about three months ago. I believe that the topic was linked here before:
http://ww2.capcom.com/BBS/showthread.php?t=9721

[quote name='Sven']Beyond the fact that it's under discussion I can not confirm it. There's lots of factors playing into the decision (costs of localization, timing of release, availability of development resources, sales performance of (AA) And Justice for All, etc.).[/quote]
 
[quote name='Vegan']How could you have known what the verdict was going to be? In fact,
you CHOOSE the verdict.
I spent the whole case wondering what Phoenix was going to do. You always know what the verdict of every Phoenix Wright case is going to be, EXCEPT that one, I'd say.[/QUOTE]

It's pretty obvious once you're done questioning Adrian Andrews that she's innocent. Hell she has no real motive. Who else had any connection to the case that could have possibly done it? Who's the only other person with any evidence against him? Engarde. I can't remember that much into it because it's been like a week, but the case really gets tiring after a while because it's pretty obvious less than halfway through who it is. Phoenix acts like an idiot about it too, saying no Psyche Locks appeared, so he must be innocent! :roll: The last trial day is worthless except to extend the gameplay. Oh no Maya is still a hostage! It could have been settled a lot quicker than another 2 fucking hours in trial doing nothing except extending the time so they could possibly find her, which they don't even do; she's returned in the end.

The case just really grated on me. It was too long and boring. Now, Case 5 in the first game, which I am just playing through for the first time (played the first 4 a long time ago, not the bonus one though)... now this is genius. It's long, but it's compelling. I think I'm over halfway through and you still have no idea who it could be. AND the judge DOES NOT act like a gullible moron like he does ALL THE TIME in the second game. Yeah, he likes food and accepts some box lunches in the middle of trial and eats them. That's just a little joke they put in to add to the humor of the game. That's the only time he really acts goofy and stupid, and it's funny. In the second game, pretty much every line that comes out of his mouth is full of gullibility and stupidity. It really does grind my gears.
 
[quote name='Kaijufan']It seems like everyone has a Phoenix Wright avatar or sig these days.[/QUOTE]
People recognize greatness. Seeing as how someone has a Franziska avatar, I figured Ema needs some love.
 
These games might all come out on wireless regardless of how the DS version sells. I won't pick this one up until it hits a discount price because of the music and the fact that there is another tutorial case.
 
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