Phoenix Wright 4?! WHY?!

The problem is that a lot of American GS/PW fans are completely ignorant of the series' roots, and are getting freaked the fuck out about the new protagonist.
 
I was a little disappointed...when I heard about this about 6 months ago. Honestly, I think it'll still be a fun game. I did read a spoiler (by accident) and if it's true, then I don't think fans will be too disappointed. If you want to know what it is, let me know...

The text changing is a good thing though...
 
well in japan it's gyakuten saiban, and In america it's referenced as the "ace attorney" series. so when people call it phoenix wright, that's not even the name of the series, it's ace attorney. and with ace attorney, they can changing protagonists. and IMO, I still think it's going to be a great game and I'm still going to buy it.
 
Am I the only one who thinks the series isn't nearly as funny as people claim it to be? It's basically a glorified Japanese "Choose your own Adventure" that has had it's script rewritten for the American audience.

I don't have a problem suspending my disbelief when playing pokemon as it's basically a society that condones and obsseses over a fancy form of cock fighting, but when in court you can't just present evidence you found and collected in an extremely improper manner. Probably have just watched one too many episodes of CSI.

As for the 4th Ace Attorney, they can change it however they want but I still won't buy that a society that allows for crimes to be prosecuted doesn't have a jury decide the verdict, or at least a percieved jury. Unless thats the group of people you see around them in the court scenes. I'll reserve final judgement until after I've played the game.
 
[quote name='APE992']
I don't have a problem suspending my disbelief when playing pokemon as it's basically a society that condones and obsseses over a fancy form of cock fighting[/quote]
Maybe the Atlanta Falcons need to buy Michael Vick a copy of Pokemon...maybe that'd help keep him out of trouble.
 
[quote name='APE992']Am I the only one who thinks the series isn't nearly as funny as people claim it to be? It's basically a glorified Japanese "Choose your own Adventure" that has had it's script rewritten for the American audience.[/quote]

But that's the thing. People aren't playing it for the gameplay, but for the characters, story and overall silliness.

I don't have a problem suspending my disbelief when playing pokemon as it's basically a society that condones and obsseses over a fancy form of cock fighting, but when in court you can't just present evidence you found and collected in an extremely improper manner. Probably have just watched one too many episodes of CSI.

As for the 4th Ace Attorney, they can change it however they want but I still won't buy that a society that allows for crimes to be prosecuted doesn't have a jury decide the verdict, or at least a percieved jury. Unless thats the group of people you see around them in the court scenes.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why this is that big a problem for you. Would you rather have the game be exactly like the real legal system? That's no fun at all.
 
Well the problem is that the first American game's title focused on Phoenix Wright rather than Ace Attorney. On the second they switched it up so the focus in the title was more on Ace Attorney. So it makes sense that people wouldn't know that it was actually an Ace Attorney series rather than a Phoenix Wright series.

And as for realism, thank god it isn't realistic, that would suck.
 
[quote name='APE992']Am I the only one who thinks the series isn't nearly as funny as people claim it to be? It's basically a glorified Japanese "Choose your own Adventure" that has had it's script rewritten for the American audience.

I don't have a problem suspending my disbelief when playing pokemon as it's basically a society that condones and obsseses over a fancy form of cock fighting, but when in court you can't just present evidence you found and collected in an extremely improper manner. Probably have just watched one too many episodes of CSI.

As for the 4th Ace Attorney, they can change it however they want but I still won't buy that a society that allows for crimes to be prosecuted doesn't have a jury decide the verdict, or at least a percieved jury. Unless thats the group of people you see around them in the court scenes. I'll reserve final judgement until after I've played the game.[/quote]
...
So basically you dont like PW because it isnt true to life? You must not like a lot of things.
 
God forbid Capcom do something new rather then rehashing the same game over again. In a game where you play as a rookie attorney, you can't stay a "rookie" forever. I'm looking forward to the new game, and I think Phoenix's new role is hillarious.
 
after the first one, I couldn't sit through the second one...
 
[quote name='APE992']I don't have a problem suspending my disbelief when playing pokemon as it's basically a society that condones and obsseses over a fancy form of cock fighting, but when in court you can't just present evidence you found and collected in an extremely improper manner. Probably have just watched one too many episodes of CSI.

As for the 4th Ace Attorney, they can change it however they want but I still won't buy that a society that allows for crimes to be prosecuted doesn't have a jury decide the verdict, or at least a percieved jury. Unless thats the group of people you see around them in the court scenes. I'll reserve final judgement until after I've played the game.[/QUOTE]

No one mentioned this, so I will. The people that made GS in Japan said that the legal system is a satire of the Japanese court. In Japan, prosecutors have more power(influence?) than the defendant, so they tend to win the case. Also, cases take a long time to ever make it to court, yet, the ruling tends to always favor the prosecutors anyway. Or so I read anyway.

[quote name='furyk']God forbid Capcom do something new rather then rehashing the same game over again. In a game where you play as a rookie attorney, you can't stay a "rookie" forever. I'm looking forward to the new game, and I think Phoenix's new role is hillarious.[/QUOTE]

QFT! Felt the same way with MGS2 and people complaining not being able to play as Snake for most of the game. If he was Raiden's shoes, he'd look as stupid and clueless as he was in MGS1.
 
This is old news, the new lawyer thing. And really, it's not a big deal. I think we all grew to love Phoenix, but we grew to love (or hate) all the characters in the games just as easily, which is testament to the skilled writing in these games. So I'm sure we'll all fall in love with the new guy, too.
 
I trust the series - it'll probably still be an awesome game regardless who the protaganist is.

Is it just me or is the game getting darker as the series progress? I'm in the middle of the second one and the only thing I don't like so far is just the music (sounds GBA like)
 
[quote name='furyk']God forbid Capcom do something new rather then rehashing the same game over again. In a game where you play as a rookie attorney, you can't stay a "rookie" forever. I'm looking forward to the new game, and I think Phoenix's new role is hillarious.[/QUOTE]
Thing is, it will probably still be a rehashing of the previous games. Unless they add some new (and GOOD, not like the lame psychlocks) gameplay elements it'll be just like the other ones.

Granted, they're enjoyable, but I could not play them one after another. Way too much of the same.
 
[quote name='Foolman']...
So basically you dont like PW because it isnt true to life? You must not like a lot of things.[/quote]

After reading what Teeheehee said it makes more sense now. However I don't like it because it isn't true to life in any minor aspect. Now that I know it's a satire it makes far more sense but putting that aside the fact that at every turn there is something screwed up about it means that suspension of disbelief cannot occur.

Spiderman shoots webbing out of his hands because of a spider, sure that works its a mutated spider. Wolverine has above average ability to regenerate himself and has an admantium skeleton, totally possible but incredibly unlikely.

PW1: Evidence just found and brought to court without allowing the other side to look at it=mistrial. Someone stealing evidence from the evidence room and assaulting a minor in the process=him being disbarred from court. People changing their stories every 5 minutes=evidence being thrown out.

It's hard to accept the game as entertaining when it's constantly breaking every rule you can think of for such an occasion. This isn't a game based in the Soviet Union or even an alternate universe where crime is so high things get decided much faster (Think Judge Dredd). The game doesn't create it's own rules but piggybacks on reality. It's one thing for Mario to grow really big because of mushrooms or shoot fire because he grabbed a leaf because Mario games make up their own rules.

But in the case that this is a satire of the Japanese justice system that all makes sense. I'm sorry I can't just blindly love a game, it just doesn't work that way.
 
[quote name='APE992']After reading what Teeheehee said it makes more sense now. However I don't like it because it isn't true to life in any minor aspect. Now that I know it's a satire it makes far more sense but putting that aside the fact that at every turn there is something screwed up about it means that suspension of disbelief cannot occur.

Spiderman shoots webbing out of his hands because of a spider, sure that works its a mutated spider. Wolverine has above average ability to regenerate himself and has an admantium skeleton, totally possible but incredibly unlikely.

PW1: Evidence just found and brought to court without allowing the other side to look at it=mistrial. Someone stealing evidence from the evidence room and assaulting a minor in the process=him being disbarred from court. People changing their stories every 5 minutes=evidence being thrown out.

It's hard to accept the game as entertaining when it's constantly breaking every rule you can think of for such an occasion. This isn't a game based in the Soviet Union or even an alternate universe where crime is so high things get decided much faster (Think Judge Dredd). The game doesn't create it's own rules but piggybacks on reality. It's one thing for Mario to grow really big because of mushrooms or shoot fire because he grabbed a leaf because Mario games make up their own rules.

But in the case that this is a satire of the Japanese justice system that all makes sense. I'm sorry I can't just blindly love a game, it just doesn't work that way.[/QUOTE]

Jesus Christ, it's a fucking videogame! I can't imagine a world where video games would only be completely realistic! Even if it wasn't a satire, I'd see no problem in it being "unrealistic" as video games tend to work as a breath of fresh-air from the real world. And aren't most video games "piggybacking" on reality in one way or another?!
 
[quote name='whoknows']Thing is, it will probably still be a rehashing of the previous games. Unless they add some new (and GOOD, not like the lame psychlocks) gameplay elements it'll be just like the other ones.

Granted, they're enjoyable, but I could not play them one after another. Way too much of the same.[/QUOTE]

It will feature the mechanics from Case 5 in PW1 (the DS exclusive case), at least. 3D evidence, touch screen and microphone gimmickry, etc. The series could probably use a bit more innovation as it progresses, but remember this is Capcom we're talking about.
 
I agree the fact that it's not really true to life makes the game not as good as it could be. Actually...thats not what kills it...what kills it a bit is that the game is seriously lacking in common sense. I've played through about 70% of PW1 and I went through a case a couple times and the evidence you present isn't actually decisive evidence at all sometimes...

Or like for one case where you get fingerprints on this bottle...if they can actually fingerprint a bottle after everyones touched it, why not fingerprint the weapon too...and ...well I wont spoil that case and I'm too lazy for spoiler tags...but I think everyone who's played it knows what I mean.

What REALLY bugs me about the game though is after you go through the whole trial and actually have evidence that points to the criminal, and a lot of it at that, way more than the original defendant, THE WITNESS WHO PHOENIX THINKS COMMITTED THE CRIME JUST SAYS "oh...well i guess you don't have 100% for sure DECISIVE evidence, so I'll just be leaving", then I'm left with another character to save the whole entire case and verdict cause that stupid witness can just walk out. Meanwhile the guy they arrested has like no evidence that he was the one who did it.

Anyway it's still fun to go through...and scene 4 I'm just starting and it shocked me right off the bat xD. Although more realism might be nice...at times I also like it being a little fake too :p
 
i dont care if its real or fake...just as the story and use of characters are good...than it will keep me in the game. i put down PW:JFA because of pokemon but ill pick it up again...i actually cant wait to play PW 3 as Mia...im not good at reading japanese so finally i get to see how this thing all started...
 
Adventure gamers are used to labyrinthian plot twists to ensure that the deck is stacked against the protagonist, and AA definitely does everything it can to ensure that Wright is the underdog, usually to make it enjoyable viscerally to the player when the villain recoils and shrieks as if in pain when they are cornered and then collapses in an over the top manner.

Of course, it can get excessive. In AA2 Case 3, the sheer audacity of the prosecutor's attempts to penalize you despite having been shown to be a liar and an all-around pissant in this case and the previous one and that the current witness is currently on his third testimony... it can be enough to break suspension of disbelief. I'll allow a good deal of leniency with the rule of law to create the hyper-drama that propels the average PW case, but I can easily see it being too much for certain people.
 
[quote name='SpazX']
And as for realism, thank god it isn't realistic, that would suck.[/QUOTE]

Hehe, no kidding. I have Jury Duty in a few weeks. Now THAT would make a *fabulous* game...

Actually, that reminds me - I wonder if I can bring a DS there? Probably not. It has been so damn long since
I've been in jury duty. The last time was before the age of ubiquitous cell phones, let alone something like the DS.
I KNOW, obviously, I couldn't use in in the court or waiting rooms, but there's the potential for down time when you are
dismissed or on lunch, whatever. I could use it then. And I'm only talking about the first selection day, not an actual trial.
I've never made it past that first day in about 3 attempts ;).

But if I could bring it, maybe that's a good a time as any to finally get around to playing the first Pheonix Wright!
 
[quote name='crazytalkx']Jesus Christ, it's a fucking videogame! I can't imagine a world where video games would only be completely realistic! Even if it wasn't a satire, I'd see no problem in it being "unrealistic" as video games tend to work as a breath of fresh-air from the real world. And aren't most video games "piggybacking" on reality in one way or another?![/quote]
Mario is a plumber, Link lives in various situations that are comparable to one profession or another, Resident Evil takes place in the United States and they use actual guns, Halo takes place in our universe, Gears Of War features humans, so yeh every game piggybacks on reality at some point. PW basically exists in a satired reality which makes all those flaws just fine because it's a satire.

I love seeing peoples reactions to criticism of a game. Yes it's a video game but apparently I can't criticize what I don't like about it.

On the flip side I'm not complaining about Mario never having been near a toilet, link having pointed ears (and not meeting a single soul of his race so far that I can tell), herbs just healing the most dire of wounds, why they have faster than light travel but still rely on bullets, or why they don't evac the planet and find a cooler place to live without pesky locusts. Suspension of disbelief only gets you so far.

As stated for the third time, since it's a satire it's fine to have such flaws, thats what makes the game a satire.


Now, as for actual gameplay flaws: Murder trial after murder trial, BORING. Always having twists that make who Phoenix is defending innocent, BORING. You point at any other crime related piece of entertainment and they mix it up. I haven't played the 2nd Ace attorny yet but I'm willing to bet it follows the same formula. Let's see Phoenix fail miserably and have to work his way up defending people in traffic court or be forced to work as a bail bondsman only to get mixed up in a robbery and get back to the top. Or maybe a rape case, perhaps involving clowns.
 
[quote name='io']Actually, that reminds me - I wonder if I can bring a DS there? Probably not. It has been so damn long since
I've been in jury duty. The last time was before the age of ubiquitous cell phones, let alone something like the DS.
I KNOW, obviously, I couldn't use in in the court or waiting rooms, but there's the potential for down time when you are
dismissed or on lunch, whatever. I could use it then. And I'm only talking about the first selection day, not an actual trial.
I've never made it past that first day in about 3 attempts ;).[/quote]

Why wouldn't you be able to bring it into the waiting room? I've seen people bring things to keep themselves occupied all the time, since they know they're just going to be sitting there all day. I'm fairly certain you wouldn't be stopped.
 
[quote name='Vegan']Why wouldn't you be able to bring it into the waiting room? I've seen people bring things to keep themselves occupied all the time, since they know they're just going to be sitting there all day. I'm fairly certain you wouldn't be stopped.[/QUOTE]

Pictochat!
 
[quote name='furyk']PictoQuest![/quote]


Fixed :lol:




If you've ever been to the GFAQs Pictochat forum you'll know what I mean.
 
I liked the first three case in PW1 but it started to get so over the top that I put it down. It got to be trial and error (pun intended) at the end of the last mission. This piece of evidence is only good to point one thing but any other time it leads to a penalty from the judge. Certain questions have only one answer with no real consequence. It was a fun game at the beginning but I can see how people can get easily fed up with it.
 
[quote name='Vegan']Why wouldn't you be able to bring it into the waiting room? I've seen people bring things to keep themselves occupied all the time, since they know they're just going to be sitting there all day. I'm fairly certain you wouldn't be stopped.[/QUOTE]

That would be great if so. If I could come up with something to bring it in I could just put it in that (when I was younger it woulld have been a backpack... now, a man purse? :lol:). But then there might be the whole metal-detector thing. I dunno... I have no idea how this crap works any more. I'm just pissed I have to get up super early in the morning for it. I'm used to going to bed just before dawn ;).
 
[quote name='APE992'] This isn't a game based in the Soviet Union or even an alternate universe where crime is so high things get decided much faster (Think Judge Dredd). The game doesn't create it's own rules but piggybacks on reality. [/quote]
i thought it was based on an alternate universe where the courtrooms have become so filled with criminal cases that cases have to be decided within 3 days of trial. hmm, i guess i was too busy enjoying the story instead of trying to compare it to another episode of law and order... speaking of which, maybe you should play this game and leave the thread.

646751b.jpg


and just for good measure...

[quote name='APE992']

Spiderman shoots webbing out of his hands because of a spider, sure that works its a mutated spider. [/quote]
UHHH PETER PARKER CREATED SYNTHETIC WEBS THAT SHOOT OUT OF A DEVICE AND DISSOLVE AFTER 2 HOURS!! HE NEVER GOT THE WEB SHOOTING POWER FROM A RADIOACTIVE SPIDERS, TRY READING YOU COMIC MORE OFTEN NUB!!!111!!




now you see what happens there when you get mad over silly little details, i sound like a jack ass and people roll their eyes. so lets take that lesson to heart kids.
 
[quote name='io']That would be great if so. If I could come up with something to bring it in I could just put it in that (when I was younger it woulld have been a backpack... now, a man purse? :lol:). But then there might be the whole metal-detector thing. I dunno... I have no idea how this crap works any more. I'm just pissed I have to get up super early in the morning for it. I'm used to going to bed just before dawn ;).[/quote]

Just have to jump in here and say that I was on Jury duty this past Dec. and brought my DS with me. I played it in the Jury Pool and while waiting outside the courtroom with no problems at all. Had a few people thinking it was the latest Palm Pilot. :lol: As for the metal detector, I was a bit worried when I had to take it out of its case and turn it on before laying it on the converyor, but it was no prob and worked fine afterwards. Luckily, being a gal, I could stash it in my purse when I had to. I would've died without it since the only other forms of entertainment in the Jury Pool was the newspaper and the the screening of 'Grumpier Old Men'.
 
[quote name='Firefawn']Just have to jump in here and say that I was on Jury duty this past Dec. and brought my DS with me. I played it in the Jury Pool and while waiting outside the courtroom with no problems at all. Had a few people thinking it was the latest Palm Pilot. :lol: As for the metal detector, I was a bit worried when I had to take it out of its case and turn it on before laying it on the converyor, but it was no prob and worked fine afterwards. Luckily, being a gal, I could stash it in my purse when I had to. I would've died without it since the only other forms of entertainment in the Jury Pool was the newspaper and the the screening of 'Grumpier Old Men'.[/QUOTE]

Thanks... But wait, you had to remove the DS and turn it on AND send it through the conveyor? Ugh... I'm not worried about the X-Ray machine, but I don't want my DS Lite crushed or scratched by someone else's crap... I may pass on that. On the other hand, the place I'm going to may not even be that into the whole metal detector thing - this is a podunk county courthouse...

And yeah, no purse for me ;). I'm also lacking a good case for my DS Lite - maybe I'll pick one up this weekend. I've been using the free Final Fantasy III sleeve (from TRU) for it so far. I haven't had a chance to travel with it yet.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']
UHHH PETER PARKER CREATED SYNTHETIC WEBS THAT SHOOT OUT OF A DEVICE AND DISSOLVE AFTER 2 HOURS!! HE NEVER GOT THE WEB SHOOTING POWER FROM A RADIOACTIVE SPIDERS, TRY READING YOU COMIC MORE OFTEN NUB!!!111!!




now you see what happens there when you get mad over silly little details, i sound like a jack ass and people roll their eyes. so lets take that lesson to heart kids.[/quote]

I was hoping someone would point that little bit out. Even the animated series did it correctly, when genius' like Tim Burton are at the helm of movies based on comic books it's no wonder the Green Goblin is dead.
 
[quote name='APE992']Now, as for actual gameplay flaws: Murder trial after murder trial, BORING. Always having twists that make who Phoenix is defending innocent, BORING. You point at any other crime related piece of entertainment and they mix it up. I haven't played the 2nd Ace attorny yet but I'm willing to bet it follows the same formula. Let's see Phoenix fail miserably and have to work his way up defending people in traffic court or be forced to work as a bail bondsman only to get mixed up in a robbery and get back to the top. Or maybe a rape case, perhaps involving clowns.[/QUOTE]

Justice For All may well surprise you on one of these points.

Nothing involving clown rape, though. Well, maybe case 3... :whistle2:k
 
[quote name='APE992']Now, as for actual gameplay flaws: Murder trial after murder trial, BORING. Always having twists that make who Phoenix is defending innocent, BORING. You point at any other crime related piece of entertainment and they mix it up. I haven't played the 2nd Ace attorny yet but I'm willing to bet it follows the same formula. Let's see Phoenix fail miserably and have to work his way up defending people in traffic court or be forced to work as a bail bondsman only to get mixed up in a robbery and get back to the top. Or maybe a rape case, perhaps involving clowns.[/quote]

You don't watch that many crime shows, do you?

Let me tell you the end to the next... hell, every episode of Law and Order. The pervert, the minority guy? Neither of them probably did it. The smarmiest bastard in the room? Probably did it. And if your number of probable suspects is zero or two, then it is definitely the person who has nothing to do with the crime, but witnessed one insignificant detail.
 
[quote name='APE992']
Now, as for actual gameplay flaws: Murder trial after murder trial, BORING. Always having twists that make who Phoenix is defending innocent, BORING. You point at any other crime related piece of entertainment and they mix it up. I haven't played the 2nd Ace attorny yet but I'm willing to bet it follows the same formula. Let's see Phoenix fail miserably and have to work his way up defending people in traffic court or be forced to work as a bail bondsman only to get mixed up in a robbery and get back to the top. Or maybe a rape case, perhaps involving clowns.[/quote]
You are the only one that wants to play a Phoenix Wright that involves traffic violations. Rape cases would be interesting, kind of like the way Law and Order is split up (Rape is SVU or whatever and murder is CSI).
Since any direct answer your first problem is a total spoiler, I'm just going to have to ruin the game you might never play anyway. In the fourth case of PW2, Phoenix Wright defends a man who is accused of murdering his rival. Phoenix Wright has an item called a magatama, that allows him to see whether people are lying. When Phoenix asks his client whether he murdered the victim, the client says "no." The magatama doesn't react, so Phoenix tries his best to get his client off the hook. It turns out that his client is actually guilty, but Phoenix can't prove him guilty in court, because the client's hitman has kidnapped Maya. Phoenix struggles with the question of whether Maya's life is more important than letting a murderer go free.

All through the second game there is also a story for Edgeworth. He has been missing since PW1 and the only thing he left behind is a note saying that "Prosecutor Edgeworth chooses death." Edgeworth is constantly brought up during the game, and Phoenix refuses to talk about it. So to take the focus off of murder after murder, there is the story about Edgeworth's dissapearance and reapearance.
 
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