Please allow to go past 500 posts due to draft. NFL Offseason discussion roundtable.

[quote name='Grave_Addiction']Dan Marino also bombed his Wonderlic test, too.[/quote]

So Young will have a good career with no Super Bowl ring? :rofl:

I think Young will be an outstanding pro. And the lower he slips, the better a steal he should become.
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']What sucks is that Young has taken such a fall because of the Wonderlic test and his combine drills, but you know if the NFL Draft was a day after the Rose Bowl, Vince Young would be #1.[/quote]

I still fail to see why the Wonderlic test is being held in higher regard than the actual grades someone got at their university. It's just plain stupid.
 
[quote name='craven_fiend']So Young will have a good career with no Super Bowl ring? :rofl:

I think Young will be an outstanding pro. And the lower he slips, the better a steal he should become.[/quote]

I dunno, but I think it goes to show that the Wonderlic test really doesn't signify whether a player will have a good career or not.
 
If I was a gm, I would never drop a high pick on a qb, not when the percentages for greatness are so low (and a QB of Brees level can fall into your lap). I would draft line and secondary first 3-4 rounds unless someone amazing lands.
For all anyone knows, Peyton could have flamed out and Ryan Leaf could be the guy right now unable to reach the SB.
There are no givens, ever. No 100% gurantee guys. Your best bet is trading down, getting more picks and seeing what develops. It is much easier to bring a QB into a solid system than it is to wait a few years while the QB struggles and you scramble for help. This game is won in the trenches, always. It is an espn sportscenter mentality that dictates otherwise.
 
[quote name='H-Town Info']seahawks will get either a guard, CB, or pass-rushing DE in the draft. if they waiting for law or woodson, that means they need a CB. both of those players want some shit-load of amounts of money.[/QUOTE]

Their guard need is taken care of with Chris Spencer.
 
[quote name='thingsfallnapart']Their guard need is taken care of with Chris Spencer.[/QUOTE]

he's center and he'll take over when tobeck's reign is over.
 
As a Titan fan I would love to see the Titans to pass on Young at #3 I would prefer D'Brick. I'm very comfortable with Volek calling the signals and theres always next year to pick a QB. I just feel like D'Brick is that kind of player you can put on the O Line and have that spot covered for the next ten years
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']Harrington signs with MIA. Good place for him, and a very good back-up to Culpepper,[/quote]

With Harrington going to Miami, it all but assures they won't take a QB with the 16th pick. It's going to be really interesting if any of the three QBs fall to the Cowboys at 18.
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']With Harrington going to Miami, it all but assures they won't take a QB with the 16th pick. It's going to be really interesting if any of the three QBs fall to the Cowboys at 18.[/quote]

I'll take "No Chance in Hell" for $500 Alex.
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']I'll take "No Chance in Hell" for $500 Alex.[/quote]

I know and agree, but ya know even Jerry Jones is thinking about it.

[quote name='"Dallascowboys.com"'] What would the Cowboys do if Texas quarterback Vince Young happened to slide all the way to their 18th spot in the first round?

"Be real interesting, wouldn't it?" Jones said, and not totally teasing.

Yes it would be, and it's always interesting when the Cowboys throw their hat in a quarterback ring.[/quote]
 
While I was at the gym, on the radio they said because of Antonio Gates, Tony Gonzalez, many NFL scouts are looking to NCAA Basketball for TE's. One of the names they threw out their was Jai Lewis of George Mason and some dude from Pittsburgh.

That'd be interesting.
 
Joey did NOT sign with Miami yet....he likes the deal, but they have to give us a draft pick. The Lions are looking for no less than a 6th rounder, and Miami does NOT have a 5th or 6th this year.

Also, Tennessee soudns like they are going to let McNair go. They told him NOT to come to their practice facility. Looks like Lienart.
 
[quote name='H-Town Info']or vince young[/QUOTE]

Vince Young will not go in the top 3. He is a MAJOR project. People feel Leinart has more of an "NFL game". People are even taking Cutler over Young in mock drafts....
Yes, Young has talent, but I don't see him going over Leinart....and I'm not even a Leinart fan.
 
thats very true DD but the titans could screw the texans to get young. vince young played his high school ball in houston and theres a lot of support down in h-town for the texans drafting him instead of bush.
 
[quote name='doubledown']Vince Young will not go in the top 3. He is a MAJOR project. People feel Leinart has more of an "NFL game". People are even taking Cutler over Young in mock drafts....
Yes, Young has talent, but I don't see him going over Leinart....and I'm not even a Leinart fan.[/quote]

Most of these mock drafts are complete and utter crap. A high number of them will be way off, including Kiper's.

While I agree that Leinart is more NFL-ready than Young, that doesn't necessarily mean that he will be the better QB when it's all said and done. Young needs to go to a team who has a good, veteran quarterback who he can be mentored by and learn the NFL game for a couple seasons. After that, my bets are that he'll make Vick look like a kid.
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']If McNair is released, Leinart will be chosen by the Titans if he's there.[/QUOTE]

that was pretty much the plan already i think, with or without mcnair
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']If McNair is released, Leinart will be chosen by the Titans if he's there.[/quote]Horrible how the Titans are treating McNair. I know it's a business and all, but the guy is the franchise. He's given himself up more than any other player I can remember and this is what he gets.
 
I know it's been three days, but Bush did very well and put a stamp on the #1 pick in the upcoming draft. 4.33 wasn't the fastest time you'd think for him, but it is fast, had a 41 inch vertical which is nasty, and if that's not enough 24 reps of 225 lbs. For those that don't lift weights that's 2 45 Lb's on each side. Damn, Bush put up well at the USC Scout day.
 
[quote name='SteveMcQ']Horrible how the Titans are treating McNair. I know it's a business and all, but the guy is the franchise. He's given himself up more than any other player I can remember and this is what he gets.[/QUOTE]

Well, isn't McNair promised like $10 million or so this season....shouldn't he redo his contract for a cap friendly number. He definetely is not worth that anymore....especially since he maybe has 1 or 2 years left.

Well, it still appears Joey is heading to Miami, but it quieted down the past few days. I guess Miami having no draft-picks (5th/6th) is harsh...

Taken from Yahoo SPorts!
McNair, the NFL's 2003 co-MVP, is due $9 million in salary in 2006 -- but his salary cap number is $23.46 million.


That's a HUGE CAP number
 
[quote name='doubledown']That's a HUGE CAP number[/QUOTE]
No kidding... Steve McNair wasn't worth 1/4th of your cap in his prime. Peyton Manning's cap number was only 17-18 million before it was restructured.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Patriots sign Martin Gramatica.[/quote]

I still don't know what the Pats were thinking when they didn't try to keep Vinatieri.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']I still don't know what the Pats were thinking when they didn't try to keep Vinatieri.[/QUOTE]
From what I'm hearing... Money was comparable, though the Colts offer was a little better. Vinatieri wanted a change. Kicking in a dome is easy and it'll help solidify his hall of fame credentials.

Money was an issue, but it wasn't the biggest issue. Thats what surprised me.
 
Cowboys

SEPT. 10 at Jacksonville
SEPT. 17 vs. Washington
SEPT. 24 = BYE
Oct. 1 at Tennessee
Oct. 8 at Philadelphia
Oct. 15 vs. Houston
Oct. 23 vs. NY Giants
Oct. 29 at Carolina
Nov. 5 at Washington
Nov. 12 at Arizona
Nov. 19 vs. Indianapolis
Nov. 23 vs. Tampa Bay
Dec. 3 at NY Giants
Dec. 10 vs. New Orleans
Dec. 16 at Atlanta
Dec. 25 vs. Philadelphia
Dec. 31 vs. Detroit


I can most certainly live with this schedule. Just by looking at the teams as of right now, I say Detroit, Atlanta, New Orleans, Arizona, and Tennessee should all be wins.
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']Cowboys

SEPT. 10 at Jacksonville
SEPT. 17 vs. Washington
SEPT. 24 = BYE
Oct. 1 at Tennessee
Oct. 8 at Philadelphia
Oct. 15 vs. Houston
Oct. 23 vs. NY Giants
Oct. 29 at Carolina
Nov. 5 at Washington
Nov. 12 at Arizona
Nov. 19 vs. Indianapolis
Nov. 23 vs. Tampa Bay
Dec. 3 at NY Giants
Dec. 10 vs. New Orleans
Dec. 16 at Atlanta
Dec. 25 vs. Philadelphia
Dec. 31 vs. Detroit


I can most certainly live with this schedule. Just by looking at the teams as of right now, I say Detroit, Atlanta, New Orleans, Arizona, and Tennessee should all be wins.[/QUOTE]


i guess u think high on houston having a chance than arizona.
 
[quote name='H-Town Info']i guess u think high on houston having a chance than arizona.[/quote]

Actually, I meant to add Houston to the list, as well. But I think Arizona is going to have a pretty decent offense if the old man Warner stays healthy and plays well.
 
Bullshit. Niners have one game on national tv and its against the Seahawks. If your going to have a shitty team on prime time you should put them up against another shitty team so fans of other teams can at least have the chance to watch a good game.

I'll be moving to San Diego in a few months, do sports bars play all of the games?

edit: bret farve needs to retire already.. Im getting tired of the packers getting pitty tv spots because of him.
 
[quote name='H-Town Info']it should since its PRIME-TIME


also, reggie bush is in houston today[/quote] I'm talking about morning games.
 
[quote name='DT778']Bullshit. Niners have one game on national tv and its against the Seahawks. If your going to have a shitty team on prime time you should put them up against another shitty team so fans of other teams can at least have the chance to watch a good game.

I'll be moving to San Diego in a few months, do sports bars play all of the games?

edit: bret farve needs to retire already.. Im getting tired of the packers getting pitty tv spots because of him.[/quote]

Well last year we got blown the fuck out there but remember the game at home we were Ken "Pussy Arm" Dorsey away from beating the Seahawks.
 
The Patriots have a really easy schedule.

Buffalo (5-11) W
at NY Jets (4-12) W
Denver (13-3)
at Cincinnati (11-5)
Miami (9-7)
-bye week-
at Buffalo (5-11) W
at Minnesota (9-7) W
Indianapolis (14-2)
NY Jets (4-12) W
at Green Bay (4-12) W
Chicago (11-5)
Detroit (5-11) W
at Miami (9-7)
Houston (2-14) W
at Jacksonville (12-4)
at Tennessee (4-12) W

9 easy, automatic wins. Only 7 games should even be close. The two best teams they play, they play at home. They should beat Miami both times, but they've improved since last year, so I'm only going to pencil in one win against them. They should beat Chicago, I wasn't impressed with them last year and I'm not now. Thats 11 wins so far, with Denver, at Cincy, Indy, and at Jacksonville to go. They should win at least 2 of those 4 games. 13-3.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']The Patriots have a really easy schedule.

Buffalo (5-11) W
at NY Jets (4-12) W
Denver (13-3)
at Cincinnati (11-5)
Miami (9-7)
-bye week-
at Buffalo (5-11) W
at Minnesota (9-7) W
Indianapolis (14-2)
NY Jets (4-12) W
at Green Bay (4-12) W
Chicago (11-5)
Detroit (5-11) W
at Miami (9-7)
Houston (2-14) W
at Jacksonville (12-4)
at Tennessee (4-12) W

9 easy, automatic wins. Only 7 games should even be close. The two best teams they play, they play at home. They should beat Miami both times, but they've improved since last year, so I'm only going to pencil in one win against them. They should beat Chicago, I wasn't impressed with them last year and I'm not now. Thats 11 wins so far, with Denver, at Cincy, Indy, and at Jacksonville to go. They should win at least 2 of those 4 games. 13-3.[/QUOTE]

What a joke! The Patriots have lost several starters since last year, Miami has improved considerably. Plus the Dolphins should've beat the Patriots both times last year, and I think they'll get it done this year. Dolphins win the AFC East, followed by NE, then its a toss up between Buffalo and NYJ.
 
[quote name='gofishn']What a joke! The Patriots have lost several starters since last year, Miami has improved considerably. Plus the Dolphins should've beat the Patriots both times last year, and I think they'll get it done this year. Dolphins win the AFC East, followed by NE, then its a toss up between Buffalo and NYJ.[/QUOTE]
And the Marlins will win the World Series, I'm sure.

The Dolphins would be happy to get 1 win out of the 2 games with the Pats, and thats what I'm predicting. Culpepper either won't be back by week 5, or will be very rusty. Plus that game is in Foxboro, that should be a win for the Pats.

"Lost several starters" is a little misleading, they're still the best team in the AFC East and one of the 3 best teams in the NFL. They lost a kicker, an outside linebacker (where they had too many guys anyway), and the #2 WR. They can replace all of those guys easily except for the kicker, but the kicker's impact won't be felt much in the regular season.
 
Nobody said anything about the Marlins and their $15 million payroll. I'm just saying, Pats fans are dreaming if they are expecting a 13-3 season.
 
[quote name='gofishn']Nobody said anything about the Marlins and their $15 million payroll. I'm just saying, Pats fans are dreaming if they are expecting a 13-3 season.[/QUOTE]
Look at that schedule and tell me they won't win 13 games. Show me who they're going to lose more than 3 games to.
 
Well if i was a New England fan I would be more worried about being the worst AFC team vs. the pass in 2005(and btw your 35th in the NFL) and your in the bottom five in total defense in the AFC. So saying losing one of your best OLB is not a big deal is false.
 
they will lose to indy, denver, miami, bengals, and chicago.

patriots have some problems on both sides of the ball.

they need another RB b/c dillion is about 30 yrs old and need a successor to him. tom brady cant throw the ball for 4k yards again. patriots needs some balance on offense. they should get a number 2 wr to complement branch but they have to use ben watson and daniel graham a lot more than spread the ball around too much. both of those te's will create so many mismatches for LBs and safeties. they need some depth also at offensive line.

on defense, the patriots lose mcginest but colvin and vrabel will most likely occupy the olb spots. so who's going to play ilb with bruschi. earlier in the season, their ilbs did totally crap until bruschi came back and also moving vrabel inside. but they need a couple of LBs for depth and for future purposes. also they might have to think of drafting a 3-4 de to replace seymour if he leaves. also they need a strong safety to groom/start in place of rodney harrison b/c he had season-ending injury and he's in his late 30's.

patriots are still a good team but they havent really made themselves a better team compared to other contenders.
 
It's kind of pointless to say how your team will do this year until after the draft to see who picks what players to fill their holes and strengthen their teams.
 
McGinnest was only a part time player at OLB, moving Vrabel inside was only temporary, the plan all along was to move Vrabel back outside and get an inside linebacker in the offseason. He'll be missed, but not as much as you'd think.

The Pats were not in good shape at inside linebacker to start the year, Ted Johnson and Roman Phifer both retired unexpectedly. The two guys they signed were primarily outside linebackers and didn't adjust well, they were really in a bind until Bruschi came back and Vrabel made the move inside. This is one of the big reasons why they were bad against the run for a while. The other reason is the loss of Rodney Harrison, he was a huge part of the run defense.

You want to point out how the Pats were bad against the pass? Look at the sheer number of DB's the Pats lost to injury last year. Rodney Harrison, Randall Gay, Tyrone Poole, Chad Scott, Guss Scott, Duane Starks... How many teams could lose 3 out of 4 starters in the secondary for most of the year and still even make the playoffs? They've made some depth signings already, Tebucky Jones, Eric Warfield, Mel Mitchell, and Chad Scott re-signed. They'll almost certainly draft a DB in the first 4 rounds, this is a DB heavy draft. They've got a bunch of younger guys on the roster anyway, many of them got playing time last year due to the injuries. They'll certainly have depth at the position (they need it), but they could use another starter.

Corey Dillon was hurt most of the year with an ankle injury, a pretty bad one. He should be better to start the season but I don't know if he'll run for 1600 yards again, they'll probably add some insurance before training camp. Probably a younger guy that they'll groom to replace Dillon. I don't see them drafting one in the first two rounds though, its not their philosophy. However, they've done unexpected things before, and if they could get DeAngelo Williams at 21, it would be great value, with the additional bonus of keeping him away from the Colts, who are expected to take a RB early in the draft.

Seymour is not going anywhere, they're close to an extension. Thats the reason why they're keeping so much cap room free. They can't make anything official until August, since they restructured his deal last August and you can't restructure or sign an extension twice within 12 months.

The O-line is pretty solid, with Matt Light, Dan Koppen, Nick Kaczur, Stephen Neal, and Logan Mankins. On the defensive line, Jarvis Green has really stepped up and would be a starter on a lot of teams, but they're pretty much set with Seymour, Wilfork, and Warren.

They legitimately need a #2 WR, thats their biggest need. Next on the list is an inside linebacker. After that, a kicker, a DB, and a RB. They're actively scouting young kickers, I'm sure they'll find someone. If not, Gramatica is there as insurance. Not much going on at WR or LB yet. They almost signed Deshea Townsend. The Pats have 11 draft picks to address these needs anyway, and going out and signing expensive free agents isn't what they do.


How exactly have the other contenders made themselves better? The Colts got worse when they let Edgerrin James go, Denver and Pittsburgh haven't done much. I'll admit, its a little premature to talk about how many wins anyone will get, but you have to admit, this is a cupcake schedule. I'll give you those first 4 as possible losses (though I don't think they'll lose all 4), but Chicago? They were the biggest pretender last year.
 
i dunno about chicago being a pretender. they couldn't stop freakin steve smith at all. true, the bears offense wasnt that great but they should had beaten the panthers. they could had just used tillman with press coverage and put a safety over the top to help out.
 
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