Pro Wrestling discussion topic--WWE, AEW, ROH, Impact, New Japan, indies

Matt Young said:
Because they never have. You have to wait 4 weeks for those new episodes to be put on the Network.
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Huh, I swore they had a few new episodes of Raw a few weeks in a row. What's the point of them waiting so long to release new episodes?

 
I've only seen YouTube clips of WWE stuff over the past several months, but I gotta say:

Seth Rollins > WWE roster

 
xilly said:
I think it's ironic that we finally get a decent RAW and Jay, who seems to like even the shittiest of shows, takes a dump on it.
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There were many issues with the show, including bringing back the Authority so quickly, out of nowhere, with no hype beforehand. There was a DQ finish for too much ass-kicking, The Ascension bombing hard, and a gigantic dull stretch amid the return of Barrett and absolute burial of Cesaro six feet under with a cement mixer being used to ensure it's impossible to dig him out. It was a far better show than other shows we've seen this quarter but not great. New Japan is great, Lucha Underground can be great, as can TNA. This Raw show was not great.

With WM, you've got Brock-Bryan as a possibility and I think that's a far better choice for many reasons than Reigns-Lesnar. If WWE re-signs Brock (and there is a chance that he's just playing the MMA card because he can - he'll be 38 when he comes back, have four years of not training in MMA regularly, and it's not like he was the highest-skilled guy around in 2011), they can always do Brock-Reigns down the line. Roman could be the guy - but he's not the guy now and he's not on track to be the guy in any way based on how things are going.

Batista in late '04 and early '05 had a groundswell of support. He wasn't a great worker, but he had something very special. Roman has Soul Glo and a couple of cool moves, but he can't string a good singles match together to save his life. Will he eventually? Most definitely. Cena took years as the top guy before really catching on with his incredible string of matches in 2007, and Roman's at least smoother than Cena even if he isn't as good as him in any other way just yet.

 
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JaytheGamefan said:
There were many issues with the show, including bringing back the Authority so quickly, out of nowhere, with no hype beforehand. There was a DQ finish for too much ass-kicking, The Ascension bombing hard, and a gigantic dull stretch amid the return of Barrett and absolute burial of Cesaro six feet under with a cement mixer being used to ensure it's impossible to dig him out. It was a far better show than other shows we've seen this quarter but not great. New Japan is great, Lucha Underground can be great, as can TNA. This Raw show was not great.

With WM, you've got Brock-Bryan as a possibility and I think that's a far better choice for many reasons than Reigns-Lesnar. If WWE re-signs Brock (and there is a chance that he's just playing the MMA card because he can - he'll be 38 when he comes back, have four years of not training in MMA regularly, and it's not like he was the highest-skilled guy around in 2011), they can always do Brock-Reigns down the line. Roman could be the guy - but he's not the guy now and he's not on track to be the guy in any way based on how things are going.

Batista in late '04 and early '05 had a groundswell of support. He wasn't a great worker, but he had something very special. Roman has Soul Glo and a couple of cool moves, but he can't string a good singles match together to save his life. Will he eventually? Most definitely. Cena took years as the top guy before really catching on with his incredible string of matches in 2007, and Roman's at least smoother than Cena even if he isn't as good as him in any other way just yet.
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I think RAW was alright, I definitely wouldn't call it a train-wreck. The Authority coming back so quickly is lame, but will ultimately serve the purpose of setting up a Wrestlemania match between Triple H and Sting. It would have made more sense for Survivor Series to not have had the stipulation of The Authority losing power as it makes the whole match mean nothing by having them return so quickly.

How do you know Brock hasn't been training MMA the past 4 years though? I'd imagine he still trains in MMA, he works very infrequently in WWE and he certainly isn't doing any house shows. I'd imagine he trains often regardless of not currently being in the sport.

I agree with you about Reigns though, I think he will get there. The problem is that he is clearly being primed to be the next top guy in the company and a lot of fans can see that and also can see that Roman just simply isn't ready for that position at this time and as a result are starting to turn on him a bit. He still gets a pretty big pop from the casual fans, but the WWE will end up ruining Reigns as a top babyface if they continue to shove him down our throats. I think Reigns needs to have a slow burn and rise to the top gradually similar to the way The Rock did.

 
Ok I gotta get something off my chest, the Daniel Bryan stuff is driving me bat shit insane.  I like Bryan a lot, he's great in the ring and seems like an ok guy outside of it.  That being said, there's no way in hell he should win the rumble, main event Wrestlemania, beat Lesnar, and become the new champ this year.  He hasn't wrestled a single match in over half a year.  He, just last year, had one of the most historic Wrestlemania's of all-time for a singles wrestler.  He beat Triple H CLEAN and then in the same freakin night went on to beat two other big stars in a main event triple threat for the belt.  It was incredible and everyone loved it.  My problem is now he gets to have another miraculous run to the title THE VERY NEXT YEAR???  He's going to not wrestle one time in like 10 months, come back and win the rumble, go on to the main event of Wrestlemania and BEAT LESNAR......the guy who just the previous WM ended THE FREAKIN STREAK???

I'm saying two things here.  The first is quite frankly he doesn't deserve that run THIS year, someone who has been busting their ass all year (Seth Rollins for instance) deserves that spotlight much more.  Second, if this was John Cena people would be shitting their pants to the highest level.  Diarrhea would literally be flowing in the streets, but Bryan is an indie darling so he doesn't have to worry about backlash over this.  

The double standard is absurd.  

 
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They're nothing alike. I don't think Cena is bad, but Bryan is much more talented in the ring. Bryan elicits a much stronger positive reaction from the crowds.

Most importantly, Bryan hasn't already been pushed to beat the whole roster and win 15 world titles. Of his 4 world title reigns, he's been champion for more than a month exactly once. And his last reign was tragically cut short on top of all that.
 
Bryan being injury prone isn't an excuse for two all-time WM performances in two years. It's not the other wrestlers or the companies' fault that his reign as champ was tragically short. He simply doesn't deserve it this year and there's no way around that. Say what you want about Cena, beating everyone on the roster for a decade and winning 15 World Titles ect, he never won the belt in a year in which he lost 8 months of it injured and not able to do anything. Probably because he is an absolute iron man and a historically hard worker who runs a schedule that few if any have ever been able to sustain. I will for the life of me never understand why people hold this against him. Punk and Bryan could never handle his workload, they break down physically (Bryan) or both mentally and physically (Punk), people shouldn't hate Cena for these reasons. You can feel free to dislike Cena for lots of other reasons but I don't think it's fair to hate him for always being around, he should be admired for that.
 
I never knocked Cena and even said I didn't dislike him. One serious injury doesn't make Daniel Bryan injury prone. Cena has been out for long stretches on a couple occasions and has even had to forfeit the belt. It happens when guys work that hard on those schedules.

Cena is not a good technical wrestler, but I'd never try to take away from how hard he works in the ring. But Bryan and Punk's styles are a lot more varied and lend themselves to more opportunities for crashing and burning, and that's part of it. Other guys also do similar work with Make-A-Wish and things like that. They just don't get anywhere near the recognition.

Long story short, I am defending the other guys, not dissing Cena. I always have liked him; I just get tired of the same old shit. But you could go through all the wrestling threads from the past decade on CAG and you would be hard-pressed to find an anti-Cena post from me.
 
cgarb84 said:
Bryan being injury prone isn't an excuse for two all-time WM performances in two years. It's not the other wrestlers or the companies' fault that his reign as champ was tragically short. He simply doesn't deserve it this year and there's no way around that. Say what you want about Cena, beating everyone on the roster for a decade and winning 15 World Titles ect, he never won the belt in a year in which he lost 8 months of it injured and not able to do anything. Probably because he is an absolute iron man and a historically hard worker who runs a schedule that few if any have ever been able to sustain. I will for the life of me never understand why people hold this against him. Punk and Bryan could never handle his workload, they break down physically (Bryan) or both mentally and physically (Punk), people shouldn't hate Cena for these reasons. You can feel free to dislike Cena for lots of other reasons but I don't think it's fair to hate him for always being around, he should be admired for that.
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I wouldn't say Bryan is injury prone. His talent reign was definitely cut short and he deserves to hold the belt for a longer period of time. I'd say Bryan puts in just as much work as Cena does, so I wouldn't say Bryan can't handle the same workload as John Cena. I agree that I don't think Bryan should win the Rumble and go the Mania to face off with Lesnar for the title. The issue is Bryan winning the Rumble and going to Wrestlemania is the best option the WWE currently has in the eyes of many people, myself included. The alternative is Roman Reigns winning the Rumble and facing Lesnar at Mania. That match just isn't appealing, Reigns isn't ready for that kind of push and in that situation it's really sink or swim for Roman, who is a very promising and will be a huge star in the company, but the time isn't right and his injury and time away has really derailed his momentum IMO. In a perfect world we'd see a guy like Rollins or Ambrose win the Rumble and face Lesnar and get something fresh and different for a change, but the likely outcome will be Bryan getting somehow screwed out of winning the Rumble, thus setting up his WM feud and Reigns winning the Rumble and going on to defeat Brock Lesnar for the title. I just really hate the idea of Reigns being the crown jewel of the WWE, the next Cena. I want guys like Ambrose, Rollins, Owens, Zayn, Cesaro, Balor, etc. those are the guys I want to see in the main programs every week. In time I think Reigns will get there, but shoving him down our throats is going to hurt him in the long run.

 
I can't say for certainty that it's going to hurt him in the long run (forcing Rocky Maivia down fans' throats sure didn't harm Rock's career trajectory), but it can cause damage where it will take a lot to repair his image. Nobody likes a "company guy," and it's pretty clear that Reigns is. He's pretty (boy is he pretty), but his matches are dull and his promos remain stunningly bad. Nothing against the guy, but he's not there yet.

If WWE put half of the effort into pushing guys who weren't connecting with the crowd (Cesaro, Adam Rose, New Day) as they did with their pet projects who aren't connecting (Reigns), they wouldn't have to stuff the top of the card with not-even-part-time-talent (Rock, Lesnar, Taker, Sting, Triple H) to fill out a Wrestlemania card.

As a fan, I suppose the frustrating thing is seeing wrestlers not connect with the crowd, and WWE has two responses:

a) ignore or bury them (Adam Rose just turned heel, had a week off Raw, and jobbed out in an inconsequential six-man tag stuck in the bathroom segment of a taped SmackDown)

b) push and push and push and push and push no matter what

What a waste on Adam Rose, really. He's pretty easy to dislike, so it's shameful they're not taking advantage of that by doing something with his turn.

 
I know it's only Adam Rose, but you still didn't have to just give away a Smackdown spoiler without warning.
 
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Injury prone wasn't the best way for me to explain my stance on Bryan in retrospect, I think he is and will always be from here forward damaged goods. The injuries and surgeries he's suffered in the last few years are quite severe, I don't know how the WWE can ever fully trust him again to remain healthy and be a workhorse for them. He has taken a tremendous amount of punishment over his career, his body appears to be breaking down from the outside looking in. And Matt I didn't mean to insinuate you dislike Cena, my rant was just me letting off steam to the general Internet fandom rather than you specifically.

I do recognize that WWE has left themselves in a really bad spot for the WM main event. Reigns (who I do like and think will be huge eventually) isn't ready for Lesnar or a solo WM main event, Bryan doesn't deserve it this year (imo), Rollins is a top heel currently and would make for an awkward Lesnar opponent, and the Cena feud has more than run its course. They have boxed themselves into a corner with Lesnar, his defeat needs to mean A LOT but they don't have anyone that's ready to beat him and get that rub.

If I was booking for the next few months I think I would have Lesnar beat Cena at the RR but have Rollins cash in and win the belt from Lesnar. Then have both Reigns and Ambrose pick up their long running feuds with Rollins and have your triple threat WM main event. I'm not sure if any of the 3 Shield guys are quite ready for that spotlight yet but it's better than Lesnar/Bryan, at least you elevate 3 very young very talented guys to superstardom all in one night. Maybe I would still have Lesnar/Bryan at WM just not for the belt, have Lesnar screw Bryan out of a Rumble match win or something giving the victory to Ambrose or Reigns.

I don't like being an armchair booker but in this instance and time of the year it's fun to let your inner mark run wild lol.
 
Apologies, Matt. I thought that was last week's episode. I truthfully don't watch SD, and with the holidays screwing up my sense of timing...

 
A few months ago, I really thought Ambrose should have won HIAC and eventually the Rumble. At WrestleMania, they could have had Reigns pin Rollins in a match earlier in the show. Then Ambrose could have survived a main event war with Lesnar to become champion... until Rollins came out to cash in. Triple threat title match including Reigns at Extreme Rules.

EDIT: Myke, I didn't see your last post til now. I was just giving you a hard time. Not like it's surprising at all to see that result.
 
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If Brock is leaving for sure after WM and they are sticking to putting the belt on Reigns, one of the best things they could do, in my humble opinion, would be a semi "double turn" during the match and put Heyman with Reigns. Right now the only thing it seems that is keeping Heyman on tv is his pairing with Brock, and honestly, keeping Heyman around is best for business.

Putting Reigns with Heyman solves a couple of issues in all honesty. It gives him more time to work on his promos while learning from one of the greatest stick men ever, keeps Heyman around, balances the heel/face numbers, and would also work in many different scenarios.

 
mykevermin said:
I can't say for certainty that it's going to hurt him in the long run (forcing Rocky Maivia down fans' throats sure didn't harm Rock's career trajectory), but it can cause damage where it will take a lot to repair his image. Nobody likes a "company guy," and it's pretty clear that Reigns is. He's pretty (boy is he pretty), but his matches are dull and his promos remain stunningly bad. Nothing against the guy, but he's not there yet.

If WWE put half of the effort into pushing guys who weren't connecting with the crowd (Cesaro, Adam Rose, New Day) as they did with their pet projects who aren't connecting (Reigns), they wouldn't have to stuff the top of the card with not-even-part-time-talent (Rock, Lesnar, Taker, Sting, Triple H) to fill out a Wrestlemania card.

As a fan, I suppose the frustrating thing is seeing wrestlers not connect with the crowd, and WWE has two responses:

a) ignore or bury them (Adam Rose just turned heel, had a week off Raw, and jobbed out in an inconsequential six-man tag stuck in the bathroom segment of a taped SmackDown)

b) push and push and push and push and push no matter what

What a waste on Adam Rose, really. He's pretty easy to dislike, so it's shameful they're not taking advantage of that by doing something with his turn.
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True, but keep in mind Rock debuted when the internet wasn't what it is today. The smarks will turn on Reigns the moment he wins the title, which IMO would put him in a perfect position to be a monster heel, especially with a manager like Heyman as his mouth piece. Will it happen, probably not.

 
Hmm Reigns as a monster heel w/ Heyman as his manager.........I like the sound of that! That would really allow Reigns to work on his promo skills, watching one of the greatest talkers ever do it from up close.
 
I don't think Daniel Bryan is getting the belt at Wrestlemania. I love the guy, but as has been pointed out he's been injured for 9 months and it's still questionable as to if he's ready to be back in the main event. (If he wasn't out for so long, Cena vs Bryan would have made a lot of sense) The best thing that could happen to him in the Royal Rumble is for him to be in the final 3 or 4 and get screwed by his future Wrestlemania opponent somehow. 

I also think it's a bad idea to have Reigns face Lesnar in the Main Event of Wrestlemania. As far as the former shield guys go, he's probably the least ready to hold the belt. Reigns also has the problem of being out for 3 months, so there's really no build. The biggest problem with Reigns winning the Rumble is that he'd probably be shit on just like Batista. 

...There's also Dolph Ziggler. He's been doing pretty well the past couple of months. It would also be awesome to have Rollins finally cash in the MITB at Wrestlemania on Ziggler.

It's kind of fun not knowing the Wresltemania card months in advance. 

 
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There's zero reason Lesnar needs to walk into WM as the champ. Rollins needs to cash in at RR and hold, going into WM as the champ with a match against the RR winner (probably Bryan) and retain. This also would A) Give Rollins a chance to defend on TV to show why he's a capable champion, B) Let people see Lesnar fight, now that he's not the champ and doesn't need to be for network subscribers/ppv buyers only, and C) Allows someone to interfere costing Lesnar his rematch and setting up Lesnar vs Whoeverthefucktheywant so he's on the WM card.

 
KillerRamen said:
It's kind of fun not knowing the Wresltemania card months in advance.
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Yeah, I agree. I think for the first time in over a decade, I'm staying away from news sites from the first of the year until Wrestlemania. It'll be nice watching it unfold as opposed to knowing every little thing that's going to happen on every show from now until April.

 
how about undertaker coming in shocking everyone at the rumble. Winning the rumble for the last time setting up 

brock vs taker rematch Wm.  Taker beats brock.  dude cashes in the money in the bank contract  (since both taker and brock are both totally out of it) 

what are we going to see another cena vs  blah blah  team at the  EC in feb.  

This be the first year the title is not defended at the EC

looking i guess there wont even be an elimination chamber ppv its now called  FAST LANE LOL whatever 

 
 
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That post read like the internet wrestling version of slam poetry.

*snap*

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Anyone else using NJPW World for WK9? I clicked on the live streaming link for the show but now it's displaying a countdown saying it will be available in about 18 hours when the show is scheduled to begin in about 2 hours. Does that mean we wont be getting the live version?

 
KillerRamen said:
It's probably for the best... Having an Elimination Chamber match a month away from Wrestlemania probably isn't the greatest idea.
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There is no Elimination Chamber PPV this year. They're replacing it with a PPV called Fast Lane. It's for the best imo, for the reason you stated.
 
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I fell asleep watching WK9 last night, but it was really damn awesome. Gonna hopefully see the rest of it today.

 
WrestleKingdom 9 was absolutely amazing. I ordered the GFW presentation on Direct TV and watched it live at 2 AM. For a 4 hour show it went by extremely fast. If you have ever watched NJPW before they will go straight from match to match with very little (if any at all) time in between, which has always been a refreshing aspect of NJPW. With that said this was a great WRESTLING PPV, every match from top to bottom was good if not great. I think Nakamura and Ibushi really stole the show with the match of the night and an early contender for Match of the Year and we haven't even gotten started yet. JR seemed a bit lost on commentary for the first few matches and started to get his barrings afterwards, but he still didn't seem to have a great knowledge of NJPW compared to Striker. Speaking of Matt Striker, he was truly great and added a lot to the show and really kept JR from floundering on the commentary. I love JR and it was great to hear him commentate on a wrestling show again, but it didn't make me want to hear him do it again anytime soon. If you haven't had the chance to watch the show yet though definitely check it out by either ordering a replay of the GFW broadcast or by way NJPW World. The commentary is an afterthought and NJPW speaks the universal language of pro wrestling and should be seen by every fan of professional wrestling.  

 
I am hoping they finally give Heath Slater a title push.

He would be the only WWE World Heavyweight Champion from WV! At ths rate, I would probably be cool if he was like USA Champion or something. (Hey, he's a hometown guy, I want to see him not be a jobber.)

I just caught up on about 5 weeks of Raw and Smackdowns. Doesn't look like I missed much.

 
mykevermin said:
Do it! The whole show is good, but Nakamura vs Ibushi was fucking special, man.
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It'll be hard to top Nakamura vs. Ibushi at WK9 this year. Aside from Okada vs. Tana what did you think the runner up for match of the night was? I personally really enjoyed the Omega vs. Taguchi match and Styles vs. Naito was also quite good.

 
I've been having problems with my computer, so I've waited. Don't want to watch on my phone. My computer is hooked up to my TV now. Even with Google Chrome translating things, the site still confuses me.
 
CookieParty said:
I am hoping they finally give Heath Slater a title push.

He would be the only WWE World Heavyweight Champion from WV! At ths rate, I would probably be cool if he was like USA Champion or something. (Hey, he's a hometown guy, I want to see him not be a jobber.)

I just caught up on about 5 weeks of Raw and Smackdowns. Doesn't look like I missed much.
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Dumbass shouldn't have gotten caught up on rape charges if he was hoping for any sort of push ever.

WK9 was awesome and I agree, Nakamura vs Ibushi was a show stealer. AJ and Naito, Omega and Taguchi, and Okada and Tanahashi were also fantastic matches. If there was a single weak match on the entire show, it was the 6 man tag, which was still pretty good.

 
WK9 was the fastest 4 hour PPV I have seen in years. The thing just flew by with great match after great match. Everyone needs to see this.

EDIT: Watched Ziggler / Barett and Kane's already interfered in the first match of the year. fuck this. I'm out. I deserve better.

 
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That Raw crowd can go fuck themselves and rot in shit for not reacting to a Demolition mention. Also that Ascension promo made Reigns look like Billy Graham. The announcers didn't help completely burying them during their match.
 
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xilly said:
Dumbass shouldn't have gotten caught up on rape charges if he was hoping for any sort of push ever.
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I didn't know that is what happened to his career. Honestly, he looks old most nights when he goes out there. He can't even put Los Matadores over...

pitfallharry219 said:
Reigns is so fucking terrible on the mic.
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They really need to make him speak Klingon or something and get him a translator. There are just too many guys that are better in the ring and on the mic.

 
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LOLed at SIN CARA being right next to Cena starting his promo. Liked Seth being added to Brock-Cena since that's not doing a thing for me and he gives them an out to beating either guy, or just stealing the fall and winning the title. They ran down tonight's card which was a nice change of pace, but none of the matches seem all that great. Barrett-Dolph has potential though. Or not - they did a goofy 2/3 falls stip after a nothing match and it never got out of first gear. Long chinlocks and Kane stuff didn't help. The match was just a backdrop to the Authority angle and Barrett won thanks to THEDEMONKANE. Ascension came out to kill jobbers and were buried endlessly by JBL, Booker, and Cole. Show-Reigns sucked. Reigns is just doomed with the booking and the promos - shockingly, quoting Fleischer Superman cartoons didn't work in 2015. Reigns rained stairs on Show's head with a spear.

Shitting Harper-Rowan match got no reaction beforehand, during with two refs, or after with two refs attacking Rowan. Dean and Bray went through the motions of an Attitude era crawl and brawl for eons. Dean jumped off an ambulance and was rewarded with losing after taking two Sister Abigails. Usos lost because Jimmy confused HIS WIFE, who is black, wearing his orange shirt, and in blue and black checkered gear for Damien Mizdow. Seth beat Ryback after two curb stomps and Booker said that no one man could beat two, despite Ryback himself doing that a ton in 2012 and even beating three guys before. Tyson Kidd and Cesaro nearly saved the show by attacking Big E during Rose-Big E while dressed as leotard-clad Rosebuds. Kidd dancing on Cesaro's shoulders was amazing. Then the heels came out and fired Team Cena after a century and they played Stars and Stripes Forever while Steph danced, kissed her husband, danced while kissing her husband, and the show ending. So WWE's killing the company and deciding that profits are less important than creating GIF-worthy television.

http://jayreviewsthings.blogspot.com/2015/01/wwe-raw-1-5-15.html

Screens -















http://www.imagebam.com/gallery/i9krbdbrq3x8y3e9hyqx6qdkawa0dp1v

 
Funnily enough, I remember the first Raw of the year FIFTEEN YEARS ago had Triple H and Stephanie celebrating while balloons and confetti fell from the ceiling.

 
I feel bad for The Ascension after watching them the last two weeks. Nervous as hell in the ring last week, nervous as hell on the mic this week. Not a good start. I'm not ready to make any final declarations on them by any stretch (try telling me *you* would be cucumber cool making your WWE live tv debut) - but having listened to Dr Tom on Cabana's podcast while driving into work this morning made me wonder how "NXT" guys will fare when called up versus "FCW" guys (if such a distinction can be made - Dr. Tom certainly was willing to discern, but of course he has a vested interest in doing so).

Wyatt vs Ambrose was very, very good (but watching WWE style striking is rough after watching four hours of Strong Style), and the right dude went over. Stopped watching around 10:30 because I lost interest in the show.

The *story* of Styles/Naito was great, but Sakuraba/Tanaka was my second favorite match. Watching middle-aged men slap the shit out of each other was a real treat.

EDIT: Also, more WK9 gifs, please.

 
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