Proposition 8 same sex marriage ban poll

[quote name='phantasyx']or both at the same time.

Ugh I hate when people break down every single sentence and expect me to give a response for each part, but I'll give a short one.

Gay people are know for parades, movies, TV shows ect. ect. ect. all easily accessible by young learning children and adults, so yet it is very advertised.

2 fe/males can not reproduce, they can please themselves, sure, but they have no know parts made specifically for Homo activity, so it is not natural, now it does happen in nature I won't deny that but YOU can not deny the bizarreness of that attraction and I am simply pointing it to the disruption of Pheromones and mis-attraction that occurs.

Now I didn't say there was a cure or treatment YET, but that damn sure will be available in the near future. At any given time there are about 2-4% of Homosexuals in the population, I forget where I heard that from but someone can easily look that up and find that to be correct. I am not forcing my ideals or treatment on anyone but I do find it to be a incorrect part of human nature as would the 90% plus heterosexuals would agree with me as well (I don't know how many bi-sexuals there are).[/QUOTE]
That's some powerful stupid. I mean damn.
 
[quote name='phantasyx']
2 fe/males can not reproduce, they can please themselves, sure[/QUOTE]

You mean they get pleasure and no risk of babies who have to grow up in a world where people like you exist? They should bottle that shit.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']what's your point, thrust?[/QUOTE]

Thrust's coworker considers being attracted to the same sex as an affliction.

...

As a modest defense to people flaming the homophobes, sexual organs were designed for reproduction. Sex feels good due to evolution and not because our ancestors were bored. It is similar to how the tongue evolved to make acquiring calories more enjoyable. If somebody were to start eating feces or metal washers and said person said it tasted good, society would attempt to treat that person for deviant behavior. If a person views sex as a means of procreation primarily and as a fun way to kill five minutes incidentally, that person will view interacting a sexual organ with anything other than its evolutionary complement as deviant behavior.
 
[quote name='bvharris']You mean they get pleasure and no risk of babies who have to grow up in a world where people like you exist? They should bottle that shit.[/QUOTE]
Well only the risk of spreading tons of life threating diseases through unsafe sex practices. I mean you can't always do the same stuff I'd imagine, sometimes ya gotta pretend some things are like vagina's. (ergo the butt... which is a breeding ground for bacteria but why do I feel like I'm teaching? this is a no brainer.)

We mostly only hear about the flamboyant gays, gays are not strong enough to all come out of the closet and are consistently in denial. Thats why there isn't much of a change in congress because of the low number of gay senators (0 last time I checked).

I feel I am fighting a losing cause in this particular forum. :cry:
 
[quote name='phantasyx']Well only the risk of spreading tons of life threating diseases through unsafe sex practices. I mean you can't always do the same stuff I'd imagine, sometimes ya gotta pretend some things are like vagina's. (ergo the butt... which is a breeding ground for bacteria[/QUOTE]

Transmission of STDs (I assume this is what you're referring to by "tons of life threating diseases"?) can occur regardless of the gender of the person you have sex with. Unprotected sex is the problem, homosexual sex is not.

[quote name='phantasyx']but why do I feel like I'm teaching?[/QUOTE]

I honestly couldn't tell you. It's not like you're using facts or anything.

[quote name='phantasyx']this is a no brainer[/QUOTE]

You certainly are.

[quote name='phantasyx']We mostly only hear about the flamboyant gays, gays are not strong enough to all come out of the closet and are consistently in denial.[/QUOTE]

Provided we cover our ears, shut our eyes, and completely fabricate statements like these, yes, I suppose those are the only gays we hear about.

[quote name='phantasyx']Thats why there isn't much of a change in congress because of the low number of gay senators (0 last time I checked).[/QUOTE]

Let's not kid anyone. You didn't check.

[quote name='phantasyx']I feel I am fighting a losing cause in this particular forum. :cry:[/QUOTE]

That's typically what happens when you come in with a faulty premise and a whole lot of stupid. It would be to your advantage if you stopped posting, and to our advantage if you stopped breathing entirely.
 
[quote name='phantasyx']Well only the risk of spreading tons of life threating diseases through unsafe sex practices. I mean you can't always do the same stuff I'd imagine, sometimes ya gotta pretend some things are like vagina's. (ergo the butt... which is a breeding ground for bacteria but why do I feel like I'm teaching? this is a no brainer.)

We mostly only hear about the flamboyant gays, gays are not strong enough to all come out of the closet and are consistently in denial. Thats why there isn't much of a change in congress because of the low number of gay senators (0 last time I checked).

I feel I am fighting a losing cause in this particular forum. :cry:[/QUOTE]

You are so unfathomably stupid that it actually makes me a little sad for people who have to put up with you in real life and not just the internet where there's an ignore button.

Oh, and ergo means "therefore" not "for example", stop trying to sound smart... That ship has sailed.
 
Let us not forget, PhantasyStarX, that there are straight men that enjoy and even PREFER Anal Sex with women. How is that different then two men having sex? It's the same hole.
Oh and Kirin got you. How you can say there are no Senators that are Gay?! Barney Frank for one? I don't know what Jared Polus is but he's openly Gay. Tammy Baldwin is a Lesbian. You obviously didn't check.
The ONLY thing I'd say is that Anal sex, for males and females, is Hygenically unclean, NOT morally.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Oral sex isn't for procreation either but many straight people enjoy (and possibly prefer) fellatio and/or cunnilingus.[/QUOTE]

Co-signing.
 
[quote name='VipFREAK']I'm pretty sure you'll never hear "clean" and sex in the same sentence...[/QUOTE]

Then you, sir, have never seen Demolition Man's sex scene.

Lucky you. ;)
 
[quote name='VipFREAK']I'm pretty sure you'll never hear "clean" and sex in the same sentence...[/QUOTE]

Well I know there are some girls that don't keep their pooter clean. But let's be honest, it IS cleaner then the asshole.
I know what they say about the mouth but I still think Oral sex is cleaner then Anal sex short of the person giving it to you just having given a rimjob.
For the arguments of GL sex traditional Lesbian sex is cleanest in terms of STD's et al that.
 
I think it's pretty funny that heteros think there's absolutely no videos of themselves acting stupid, or being retarded out in public, or go around in silly costumes at parades, and all the million other instances that are solely attributed to the gay crowd.
 
Oh man, never go on the Yahoo blog comments when they post about anything gay. All the bible thumpers across the Country come out to spew their brain washed hate.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Thrust's coworker considers being attracted to the same sex as an affliction.

...

As a modest defense to people flaming the homophobes, sexual organs were designed for reproduction. Sex feels good due to evolution and not because our ancestors were bored. It is similar to how the tongue evolved to make acquiring calories more enjoyable. If somebody were to start eating feces or metal washers and said person said it tasted good, society would attempt to treat that person for deviant behavior. If a person views sex as a means of procreation primarily and as a fun way to kill five minutes incidentally, that person will view interacting a sexual organ with anything other than its evolutionary complement as deviant behavior.[/QUOTE]
Nearly everyone has masturbated at least once in their lives, yet aside from religious fanatics, I don't know anyone who has come out and condemned masturbation. I guess that's because most people masturbate in private.

These folks act like if homos would just be homo in private there wouldn't be a problem.:roll:
 
[quote name='Sarang01']Well I know there are some girls that don't keep their pooter clean. But let's be honest, it IS cleaner then the asshole.
I know what they say about the mouth but I still think Oral sex is cleaner then Anal sex short of the person giving it to you just having given a rimjob.
For the arguments of GL sex traditional Lesbian sex is cleanest in terms of STD's et al that.[/QUOTE]
Believe it or not, your ass is probably cleaner than your mouth. You'd have a bigger chance of a cut finger being infected if you stuck it in your mouth than if you wiped your ass with it.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']Well I know there are some girls that don't keep their pooter clean. But let's be honest, it IS cleaner then the asshole.
I know what they say about the mouth but I still think Oral sex is cleaner then Anal sex short of the person giving it to you just having given a rimjob.
For the arguments of GL sex traditional Lesbian sex is cleanest in terms of STD's et al that.[/QUOTE]

Clean is a relative word really. Mouth is far dirtier than a pussy or an asshole technically speaking what with all the germs and bacteria in it, more so than an asshole. Shit is just waste, chances are if you have something in it then you have things elsewhere. Unless you have some sort of gastrointestinal disease, clostridium dificule, some sort of parasite your shit is relatively clean. Its nothing more than broken down blood vessels and whats left over of the food you eat. Simillar to dogs and chickens eating their own shit and pigs do in a sense also. Granted its not sterile like urine is but its still not quite as bad as you imagine.

Lesbian sex isnt the cleaniest form either. Any std can be transmitted through oral sex. Say a girl is sucking the dick of a guy with aids. If she has bittern inside of her cheeck, brushed her teeth to hard to cause a small abraision, had dental work done recently, has a sore of sort in her mouth then she is going to more than likely contract his aids or whatever blood transmitted disease. Same thing goes for licking a pussy. Then you have stds that are just spread through mucus membrances and your screwed then cause thats all the mouth is.

I know more about pussies, ass's and such than Id like to know thanks to nursing school. I cant look at them the same anymore.


[quote name='Strell']I think it's pretty funny that heteros think there's absolutely no videos of themselves acting stupid, or being retarded out in public, or go around in silly costumes at parades, and all the million other instances that are solely attributed to the gay crowd.[/QUOTE]

Well acting stupid in parades or videos just because you want to is one thing. Doing so because you think you deserve to get attention for being gay is just stupid.

Want to have parades? Thats great, but dont do it for something as stupid as being gay. If gay people didnt do that stuff and act like entitled assholes then it wouldnt be an issue. Its kind of like working someplace where you have 2 gay people and 20 straight people. If those 2 gay people tried to act gay, make sure everyone knew they were gay and were constantly making sure everyone is "gay aware" then those other 20 people probablly wont like them. Not like them for being gay, they wouldnt like them for being a pain in the ass. Same thing happens in society, if gay people would try to act like "people" instead of "gay people" they would find themselves alot more accepted by society in general.

Being gay doesnt make you special, it doesnt make you a unique snowflake, it doesnt mean you automatically deserve attention. Were all just bags of meat and bone with eyes.
 
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Gargus Gay Pride and the Gay Pride Parade are about not being ashamed about being Gay. It's about celebrating that you can be yourself in public, not being ashamed anymore.
Consider what life was like before Stonewall, what could happen to Gay's and Lesbian's, being fired for just being caught as being Gay. Now we have anti-discimination laws at the workplace.
ENDA looks like it's coming down the pipe WITH proponents in it for Transsexuals. Also there is Gay marriage in places.
I'll admit some are Flamboyant but that's them. They should be free to be themselves. The straight community could learn a little something about being more free in their sexuality. Compared to the bullshit Puritanical and Victorian values we've held onto for so long.
 
[quote name='gargus']Not like them for being gay, they wouldnt like them for being a pain in the ass. [/QUOTE]

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/ahnenerbe666/BUTTSEX-1.png

BUTTSEX-1.png
 
For those interested in the law part of this thing, it just got turned on its head. So you have to have standing to be a part of a lawsuit, obviously. You have to have a material interest and/or be a named party in order to appeal a decision. For example, if Strell sued me and he won, FoC couldn't appeal on my behalf unless he had a material stake. Makes sense, right?

Quick practical side note: The conservative wing of the Supreme Court (especially Roberts) has taken an EXTREMELY narrow view of Article III. Basically they say that if you can't show direct and obvious injury, you have no standing. In reality, that means far fewer people are able to sue in court. In modern conservative thinking, that's a good thing. Liberals basically go the other way and say everyone can sue and let's see where the chips fall. Anyways.

So the state of California refuses to be a party to the prop 8 lawsuit. Here's where it gets crazy. I think SCOTUSblog describes the issue better than I could:
From the moment nearly 15 months ago that two master legal tacticians, David Boies and Theodore Olson, launched the case of Perry v. Schwarzenegger, it was almost universally expected that it would become a historic Supreme Court test of gay marriage and the Constitution. Now, perhaps for the first time, it seems realistic to suggest that this particular high-stakes battle may never get much beyond California, especially in terms of its impact on the Constitution.

That prospect came into view Thursday as U.S. District Judge Vaughn R. Walker suggested that the appeal of his sweeping ruling against California’s Proposition 8 ban on same-sex marriage may end on what everyone but lawyers would consider a mere legal technicality. It might end, in other words, because no one with a right to do so would opt to take the case beyond Judge Walker’s San Francisco courtroom.

Make no mistake about it: there will be energetic efforts to keep the case going, initially through the Ninth Circuit Court (also based in San Francisco) and, perhaps, through the Supreme Court in Washington. But the fight, perhaps at every level, could focus on a concept that is anything but familiar to the average American. The legal label for this concept tells nothing about what it is, although hinting that it finds its origin in the Constitution: “Article III standing.” For the supporters of Proposition 8, “Article III standing” is probably not a legal arena where they want to be tested; the current Supreme Court’s majority does not have an expansive view of who can qualify for “standing.”

If the case does falter because of a lack of “standing,” Judge Walker’s 136-page opinion on August 4 against Proposition 8 would stand as a precedent, but one that represented the judgment of a single federal jurist, without the enlarging endorsement of a federal appeals court or of the Supreme Court. District Court rulings, even those that are widely admired within the legal community, do not have the compelling force behind them that a higher court’s decisions do.

In practical terms, what that would mean was that gay marriage would be legal in California, the nation’s largest state. And this would add a sixth state that permits same-sex couples to enter legal marriage. Such nuptials , however,would still be illegal in more than three dozen states, since the Supreme Court would have had no chance to turn Judge Walker’s ruling into a nationwide, binding precedent.

Coincidentally, there is some talk now in conservative circles that maybe the fight should be abandoned in California, leaving the Walker opinion as an isolated declaration, contained in a way that would not threaten any of the gay marriage bans outside California. The theory is that the present Supreme Court could not be relied upon to strike down Judge Walker’s conclusions and uphold Proposition 8. That is separate, though, from the question of whether the Proposition 8 case will shrink because it turned out that no appeal was legally permissible.

Why wouldn’t an appeal be allowed? The answer starts with the Constitution. Because federal courts were created to exist within limits on their authority, the Constitution requires that, before any federal court can decide a case in a final way, there must be a live “case or controversy.” As long ago as George Washington’s time, the federal courts have refused to issue advisory opinions — that is, a legal declaration that does not really solve an actual courthouse battle between two real-life opposing sides.

For there to be a case or controversy, in a constitutional sense, there have to be two sides, whose interests are opposed in some crucial way, and each side must be at risk of being harmed in a significant way if it were to lose.

Those requirements are part of the Constitution’s Article III, which created the federal court system, including the Supreme Court. As long understood, Article III requires, for there to be a live case, someone who can make a plausible claim that they have suffered a legal injury or wrong, they must make a plausible case as to what caused that injury, and they have to offer evidence that the harm would be remedied if they won their case. (In technical legal terms, these are the requirements of injury, causation, and redressability.)

On none of those three points, though, must the person or entity who sued prove it in a final way at the beginning of the lawsuit. In other words, they don’t have to win the case convincingly in order even to start it. That will be the test they will have to meet only if the case goes forward, reaching the merits. But what must be offered at the outset is enough evidence to convince a court that the case is a live one, within the court’s powers.

In Perry v. Schwarzenegger, the Boies-Olson team put together a lawsuit involving two California same-sex couples, who claimed that their commitment to each other was legally frustrated because the voter-approved Proposition 8 barred them from getting married, to give official recognition to their union. That was their claim to “standing” to challenge the constitutionality of Proposition 8, and Judge Walker accepted it. They still had to prove, of course, that, at the end of the trial, the ballot measure did violate a right that the Constitution protected from state interference.

Now that they have won, in Judge Walker’s court, the two couples have no reason to seek an appeal. But, if someone is dissatisfied with what the judge decided, and there are plenty of people and organizations that are, the question arises whether any of them have “standing” to appeal. To keep the case alive on appeal, someone has to have “standing” in the Article III sense, just as such standing was required for a lawsuit in the first place.

The state of California, its governor, its attorney general, and other officials involved in the enforcement of state laws about marriage would definitely have “standing” to challenge Judge Walker’s decision in an appeal to the Ninth Circuit Court. But the officials from Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger down to the marriage licensing officers have indicated that they have no interest in appealing the case. The governor filed legal papers saying it was time to end the discrimination against same-sex couples.

But there are many Californians, including those who put together the campaign to convince voters to pass Proposition 8′s ban on gay marriage, and lawyers for some of these individuals and groups have already filed appeals to the Ninth Circuit. On Thursday evening, hours after the judge’s latest ruling against them, the proponents began another maneuver in the Circuit Court: a plea for a formal postponement (a “stay”) of the Walker opinion while they pursue their appeal on the merits of Proposition 8′s constitutionality.

In the wake of the filing seeking a stay from the Ninth Circuit, it is clear that the Article III issue will be hotly disputed as the case moves along. In their lengthy motion for a stay, the backers of Proposition 8 strongly disagreed with Judge Walker’s implication that they have no right to appeal. They devoted five pages to recounting their interpretation of California law as giving them, as sponsors of the ballot measure, a clear right to be in court to defend it. If there is doubt about it, the motion argued, they could rely on the standing of the marriage license official in Imperial County, Calif., who is separately appealing in an effort to become officially an intervenor in the case.

The judge’s discussion of the standing issue came as he refused to postpone his own ruling for any longer than a brief period to allow the Circuit Court to hear an application for a stay.

It is standard procedure in the federal courts that, in order to get a court to stay a ruling — that is, to put it on hold — an individual or organization involved in a case must meet four requirements: (1) show a reasonable likelihood that, if the case does go to a final ruling on the merits, they will win; (2) show they will suffer “Irreparable injury” if the postponement is not granted, (3) show that the stay will not cause substantial harm to others, and (4) show that a postponement is “in the public interest.”

While Judge Walker found that the backers of Proposition 8 could not satisfy any one of those four, it was in the course of his discussion of those points that he hinted broadly that the proponents may not have Article III standing, and thus no right to appeal his decision and get the Ninth Circuit to rule on the merits.

In both the Ninth Circuit and, if the case goes further, in the Supreme Court, it is now apparent that the resolution of the issue of standing to appeal will turn on how those courts interpret the Supreme Court’s 1997 decision in Arizona for Official English v. Arizona, casting doubt on whether initiative sponsors may appeal to defend a ballot measure when state officials refuse to do so, and the Court’s 1985 ruling in Karcher v. May, suggesting that state legislators may sometimes do so when other state officials refuse, provided state law allows for that. The proponents of the ban on gay marriage, in direct conflict with Judge Walker’s interpretation of California law, argue that state law does give them the right to be in court. California law, they said, makes their case different from the Arizona English initiative case.
For those scoring at home, that big gay judge that loves teh gay and hates teh straights has just kneecapped the strongest ever legal challenge to gay marriage bans (even as he upheld the prop 8 ruling) because he believes the Constitution required him to. I'm sure all those commentators hating on him will turn and write glowing reviews. Hardy har har.

Thankfully, the Prop 8 supporters are ideological enough to not realize that they were just saved from their own execution nationally and are not willing to trade California for the rest of the country. Let's all hope they scare up an entity with standing so this thing can keep going.
 
[quote name='speedracer']Let's all hope they scare up an entity with standing so this thing can keep going.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. This *needs* to hit the Supreme Court so that it'll have national ramifications.
 
[quote name='depascal22']What do you guys think will happen if SCOTUS decides gays have no constitutional right to marry?[/QUOTE]

then opposite sex marriage will have to be demoted as well. civil unions for everyone, marriage would be a separate religious institute. church's could decide on their own whether or not to have ceremonies for same sex couples.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']then opposite sex marriage will have to be demoted as well. civil unions for everyone, marriage would be a separate religious institute. church's could decide on their own whether or not to have ceremonies for same sex couples.[/QUOTE]

Bullshit. There'll be no change in "normal" marriage. Any pol suggesting a demotion of "God-approved" marriage will be skewered by the religious right.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Bullshit. There'll be no change in "normal" marriage. Any pol suggesting a demotion of "God-approved" marriage will be skewered by the religious right.[/QUOTE]

I was gonna say "marriage" already has a separate element having to do with church.

Unless all those people who get married at town halls are doing it wrong.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Bullshit. There'll be no change in "normal" marriage. Any pol suggesting a demotion of "God-approved" marriage will be skewered by the religious right.[/QUOTE]

i know there wont be a change, im just saying there should be.
 
[quote name='speedracer']Thankfully, the Prop 8 supporters are ideological enough to not realize that they were just saved from their own execution nationally and are not willing to trade California for the rest of the country. Let's all hope they scare up an entity with standing so this thing can keep going.[/QUOTE]

And speedracer calls it.

A federal appeals court in San Francisco has blocked same-sex marriage in California, until it hears broader questions over the constitutionality of such marriages. The brief order from the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals set aside a federal judge's decision last month permitting same-sex marriages to resume

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/16/federal-judge-blocks-same-sex-marriage-in-california/

~HotShotX
 
[quote name='depascal22']What do you guys think will happen if SCOTUS decides gays have no constitutional right to marry?[/QUOTE]

I'd be very, very shocked and ashamed.
 
[quote name='gargus']Clean is a relative word really. Mouth is far dirtier than a pussy or an asshole technically speaking what with all the germs and bacteria in it, more so than an asshole. Shit is just waste, chances are if you have something in it then you have things elsewhere. Unless you have some sort of gastrointestinal disease, clostridium dificule, some sort of parasite your shit is relatively clean. Its nothing more than broken down blood vessels and whats left over of the food you eat. Simillar to dogs and chickens eating their own shit and pigs do in a sense also. Granted its not sterile like urine is but its still not quite as bad as you imagine.[/quote]

Ummm... there is a shit ton of bacteria in your colon and feces... about 10^10 bacteria per mL (That's 10 billion bacteria per milliliter)... it's mainly coliforms (gram negative rods like E. coli) and a wide variety of anaerobes (like bacteroides). On the bright side, most of them are not very pathogenic. C. diff becomes a problem when your normal flora gets blasted by broad spectrum antibiotics, such as zosyn or moxifloxacin and it can overgrow since it has less competition... it then expresses toxins that can cause diarrhea. From the standpoint of all these bacteria, it's pretty safe to stick one's cock into an ass even bareback... the skin, long urethra, and prostate that expresses some antibacterial materials provides good protection. Receiving the buttsex is more dangerous... inevitable tears in the mucosa provide a nice portal of entry for many STDs.


Lesbian sex isnt the cleaniest form either. Any std can be transmitted through oral sex. Say a girl is sucking the dick of a guy with aids. If she has bittern inside of her cheeck, brushed her teeth to hard to cause a small abraision, had dental work done recently, has a sore of sort in her mouth then she is going to more than likely contract his aids or whatever blood transmitted disease. Same thing goes for licking a pussy. Then you have stds that are just spread through mucus membrances and your screwed then cause thats all the mouth is.
Lesbian sex is much much much safer than MSM sex. You can contract HSV and HPV but these are avoidable and usually treatable.
Oral sex is pretty safe too; receptive oral sex is probably higher risk than insertive oral sex.
http://adr.sagepub.com/content/19/1/152.long
 
Speedracer was right on. If the anti gay-marriage brigade knows what's good for them, they would let California be and move on.

In my eyes, the best they stand to gain from the Supreme Court would be a ruling which held that voters do have the right to vote on the issue, and that Prop 8 was constitutional. As I understand it, such a ruling would only apply to California or other states which pass or have passed similar measures. There's no way that I can see how any ruling could extend to the broader question of same-sex marriage, so they're not going to curtail it where it has already progressed.

However, the much more likely outcome (in my mind) would be that the Supreme Court upholds the ruling (which every rational person agrees was a slam dunk) and it takes on national weight and precedent, and then it's a whole new ballgame. For sure at least it would invalidate other voter-approved measures banning same-sex marriage, I'm not sure how it would affect laws passed by state legislatures, but it would certainly open the door for further litigation.

So really, the absolute best thing supporters of Prop 8 could do for their opponents is to find someone with standing to appeal.
 
So now the executive branch gets to override all other legislation and law-making and decide which of our nations laws it wants to enforce or defend and which it doesn't?

This is a fun and dangerous precedent.

I guess it's not really anything new (see immigration), but at least they are becoming far less shy about showing that we are no longer a Republic.


Of course, many of you will defend this because you don't like the law either, but you would be missing the bigger picture as usual.
 
You conservatives can't have it both ways. You guys are all about state's rights, more power at local levels etc., so you should be all about the federal government not using federal law to strike down state laws and local laws.

But it's like I always say. Conservatives only want small government when the government is legislating things they disagree with. What they really want is a big federal government that pushes their exact morals out to everyone and bans gay marriage, puts prayer in school, strikes down local gun control laws, bans abortion etc.

And I'm just talking social conservatives in general, not you specifically on all those issues thrust, so don't get your panties in a bunch.
 
They're still implementing/executing DOMA, they're just not appearing in court to defend its constitutionality on behalf of the United States, because they've figured out that there actually is no defense for it.

I mean, I guess as an alternative, they could appear in court and just shrug their shoulders and go, 'we got nothin'. One of those probably costs the taxpayer more than the other.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']So now the executive branch gets to override all other legislation and law-making and decide which of our nations laws it wants to enforce or defend and which it doesn't?

This is a fun and dangerous precedent.

I guess it's not really anything new (see immigration), but at least they are becoming far less shy about showing that we are no longer a Republic.


Of course, many of you will defend this because you don't like the law either, but you would be missing the bigger picture as usual.[/QUOTE]Dumb. It's still being enforced. Do some research before you knee jerk post after reading some conservoblog.
GLENN GREENWALD: Well, so far, all the cases that had challenged the constitutionality of the Defense of Marriage Act were brought in circuits. The United States judicial system is divided into 11 circuits. And they’ve all been brought in circuits where there was very bad precedent against gay people and the question of whether they deserve heightened scrutiny under the Constitution. And so, the administration’s excuse was, "Well, in all these cases, we’re not saying that the law should be against gay people; we’re simply saying that binding precedent in these circuits means that lower court judges must find DOMA constitutional under this bad law."
Now cases have been brought in New York in the Second Circuit, where there is no such authority on this question, and therefore the administration is going to be required in these cases to take a position not just about what the law is, but what they think the law should be. So they would have had to have stood up and said either, "We think that you should give gay people heightened scrutiny under the Constitution and therefore find this law unconstitutional," or, "No, they should be denied this kind of scrutiny and protection, and you should find the law constitutional." And apparently, they were unwilling, to their credit, to stand up and take that latter position, the anti-gay position, and to urge the Second Circuit to adopt it, and instead they’re going to say that gay people, with their history discrimination, should be given special scrutiny when laws are aimed at them.
 
NEW YORK -- Angered conservatives are vowing to make same-sex marriage a front-burner election issue, nationally and in the states, following the Obama administration's announcement that it will no longer defend the federal law denying recognition to gay married couples.

"The ripple effect nationwide will be to galvanize supporters of marriage," said staff counsel Jim Campbell of Alliance Defense Fund, a conservative legal group.

On the federal level, opponents of same-sex marriage urged Republican leaders in the House of Representatives to intervene on their own to defend the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act, or DOMA, against pending court challenges.

"The president has thrown down the gauntlet, challenging Congress," said Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council. "It is incumbent upon the Republican leadership to respond by intervening to defend DOMA, or they will become complicit in the president's neglect of duty."

Conservatives also said they would now expect the eventual 2012 GOP presidential nominee to highlight the marriage debate as part of a challenge to Obama, putting the issue on equal footing with the economy.

Gay rights activists welcomed Wednesday's announcement from the Justice Department, sensing that it would bolster the prospects for same-sex marriage in the courts. Among Democrats in Congress, there was praise for Obama's decision and talk of proposing legislation to repeal the law altogether.

"I opposed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996. It was the wrong law then; it is the wrong law now," said Sen. Diane Feinstein, D-Calif. "My own belief is that when two people love each other and enter the contract of marriage, the federal government should honor that."

On the state level, there were swift repercussions.

In Rhode Island, the Roman Catholic bishop of Providence, Thomas Tobin, said Thursday that his diocese would "redouble its efforts' to defeat a pending same-sex marriage bill in response to the announcement. In Iowa, conservative activist Bob Vander Plaats said the DOMA decision would invigorate a campaign to repeal the state's court-ordered same-sex marriage law.

"This gives us more credibility than ever with this issue," said Vander Plaats, who wants to topple the Democratic leadership in the state Senate that is blocking efforts to put a same-sex marriage repeal proposal on the ballot.

In Maryland, meanwhile, the state Senate was debating a bill that would make that state the sixth to legalize same-sex marriage - joining Iowa, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Vermont and New Hampshire.

Linsey Pecikonis of the gay-rights group Equality Maryland predicted the DOMA announcement would improve the bill's prospects.

"It's a recognition that government is no longer able to defend discrimination," she said.

In Congress, GOP House leaders gave no immediate indication whether they would intervene to defend DOMA in the ongoing lawsuits, but they harshly criticized Obama's decision.

"This is the real politicization of the Justice Department - when the personal views of the president override the government's duty to defend the law of the land," said House Judiciary Chairman Lamar Smith, R-Texas. "It's disappointing that the Obama administration continues to place politics above the will of the American people."

In fact, many polls show the public almost evenly divided on legalizing same-sex marriage, one reason the issue is so volatile politically.

Perkins, the Family Research Council leader, suggested that House Republicans would risk alienating their conservative base if they did not tackle the marriage issue head-on.

"The president was kind of tossing this cultural grenade into the Republican camp," he said.

"If they ignore this, it becomes an issue that will lead to some very troubling outcomes for Republicans."

Jon Davidson, legal director of the gay-rights group Lambda Legal, predicted the DOMA announcement would energize opponents of gay marriage, but he questioned whether that would have much impact on the 2012 presidential race.

"I think they will try to turn this into a major election issue," he said. "But the people who feel strongly that same-sex couples should not be allowed to marry were not going to vote for President Obama anyway."

Conversely, he said the gay community will rally behind Obama all the more eagerly.

"It's hard to imagine that with the repeal of `don't ask, don't tell' (enabling gays to serve openly in the military) and this decision, there will be anything less than enthusiastic support," he said.

Though the DOMA announcement elated gays and infuriated many conservatives, it did not do away with the law, which bars the federal government from recognizing gay marriages and allows states to deny recognition of same-sex unions performed elsewhere. Among its many effects, it forces same-sex married couples to file separate U.S. tax returns, and bars the transfer of Social Security benefits to a surviving same-sex spouse.

In California, where the fate of the state's same-sex marriage ban is in the hands of a federal appeals court, gay rights advocates welcomed the administration's action as validation of their plan to get the U.S. Supreme Court to consider the gay marriage issue. While the California case does not hinge on DOMA, lawyers for two couples suing to overturn Proposition 8 are relying on many of the same constitutional arguments made by the Justice Department.

One of the lawyers, Ted Olson, said the federal government's stance bolsters the positions taken by former Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Gov. Jerry Brown in his previous role as attorney general when they decided not to defend Proposition 8. The net effect, he said, "will be very persuasive" as judges weigh the case.

California is among 30 states which have passed constitutional amendments aimed at prohibiting same-sex marriage.

Brian Brown, president of the conservative National Organization for Marriage, predicted that Obama's decision not to defend the federal DOMA would spur efforts in some of the remaining states to join the ranks of those with constitutional bans.

Indiana lawmakers took a step in that direction last week, and Brown said it was possible that amendments could gain traction in Wyoming, Minnesota, North Carolina and even New Hampshire, if GOP lawmakers succeed in repealing the state's same-sex marriage law.

"This raises the stakes and makes clear the executive branch is not willing to carry out its responsibility," Brown said. "I don't think by any stretch of the imagination the tables have turned on this issue. People in this country know what marriage is."

When DOMA was passed in 1996, an election year, it had broad bipartisan support. Over recent years, Obama has criticized the federal law without fully supporting gay marriage. White House spokesman Jay Carney said this week that the president was "grappling" with the issue but had always personally opposed DOMA as "unnecessary and unfair."

The Williams Institute, a think tank at the UCLA School of Law, estimates that about 80,000 legally married same-sex couples live in the U.S., including roughly 30,000 who wed in Canada or other foreign countries. An estimated 85,000 same-sex couples have entered civil unions or domestic partnerships, the institute says.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/24/AR2011022406013_pf.html

I give up.

Maybe I'm just in a sour mood today, but this article has pissed me off for multiple reasons.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Mobilizing conservatives on the increasingly losing side of social issues seems like a pretty clever trap to me.[/QUOTE]

After giving a day to think about it, I think that's exactly what this is. It really looks like the dems new tactic to deal with the republicans marching through the government forest with a machete is to keep trying to distract them with age-old social issues.

I expect to see a lot more gay-rights and abortion bait thrown out this year.
 
bread's done
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