PS2 dropping to $99 around April 5

[quote name='plutoknight']To those wondering what games are "viable" in 2009

PS2 Exclusives that you may want to look into -- most are cheap, too!

the MGS series (the entire Collection can be had for 30 bucks MSRP -- and the Xbox MGS2 sucks)
Ico and Shadow of the Colossus -- while the first may be hard to find, both are amazing
God of War 1/2. I'm not a fan but...
The Silent Hill series. Yea, I know 2 and 4 are on the Xbox -- but 4's Xbox port sucks and 3 is REALLY good.
Onimusha -- Again, theres one of these on the Xbox, but I highly recommend at least the second in the series. It can be had for SUPER cheap, it offers great replay value, and its cheesy in the same way that old school RE games were -- pretty good gameplay, but bad voice acting and translations XD
Zone of the Enders 1 and 2
FFX X-2 and XII
Kingdom Hearts 1 2 and Re:Chain of Memories (Esp. KH2.)
Star Ocean: Till the End of Time
the Xenosaga series (with 3 being the most expensive, but best. And 2 being the cheapest, but "worst")
Persona 3 and 4
Gran Turismo 4

Other games I'd personally look into
Devil May Cry
Shinobi (but not Nightshade)
Radiata Stories
Dark Cloud 1/2
the Shadow Hearts series.


Not to mention the 290834032 "family/casual" games, like Buzz and Singstar. And if you can find the old YDJK PS1 games....the PS2 will play those, too...

Most of thoes games can be had for 20 or less from stores like Gamestop, Walmart, etc.

For $100, that's a DAMN good value. Then again, I LOVE my PS2 and the only reason I jumped to PS3 was because I wanted to get the last model that could play all the old games. In fact, just before this I was playing Xenosaga II XD

There are plenty more good games -- just explore what genres you like best. Chances are, every genre has at least 4 or 5 "good" PS2 games inside of it. Especially RPGs.......[/quote]

Just to add to your list from some of my favorites

Yakuza 1 & 2
Disgaea Hour of Darkness & Cursed Memories (I know theres a gimped DS version of HOD)
Megaman Series
Suikoden Series
Valkyrie Profile 2
DragonQuest VIII
Dark Cloud Series
Black

The list is never-ending.
 
And here I thought the PS2 was normally $99. I don't think I'll be picking one up, but it's got me interested in the PS2 for at least the few minutes it takes for me to read this thread and respond. Mission accomplished.
 
Great PS2 games list guys.

re: Sony doing bad, Sony marketing bad, etc.
Yeah, Sony is doing good, but they could do better. The cost of this gen's HD development is putting studios under (this started before the recession). Regardless of the sales numbers, and MS hardware doing poorly (because of its historic poor hardware quality), the fact is MS has a larger install base this gen, that Sony is still years away from matching, and as long as Nintendo continues to deliver to the masses on the Wii, most customers will spend within their budget, and that means a Wii and an Xbox for only a little more than a PS3. A bigger install base means it is easier to build for MS first, and port to PS3. Sure, all the analysts believe Sony may catch up, but Sony has a lot of work ahead of them to get there.

I'm not Sony bashing--I love my PS2, I loved my PS1, and I lust for a PS3. My opinions are just that, opinions, and I am often wrong, and we all know how opinions are like noses... blah, blah, blah, pancakes. I have worked in marketing and advertising for 18 years, so I sort of pretend to know what I am talking about.
 
Who doesn't have a PS2 by now? Who? I ask Oh yeah. My little cousins don't.... Just make the PS3 backwards compatible again. That will make people buy more.
 
PS2 Game Recommendations that people have been asking for:

Ico
Shadow of the Colossus
Metal Gear Solid 2 and 3
Soul Calibur III
Devil May Cry
Zone of the Enders
Castlevania Lament of the Innosense
Grand Turismo 3 A-Spec

I remember at one point I had over 200+ Games for my PS2. But those are some I highly recommend and still have, but like others have said, once I got a 360, I do not play my PS2 that often anymore. It really looks horrible on a High Def Screen, so definitely those that are thinking that a PS2 will look nice on an HD TV, might as well keep your older Tube TV for the PS2, it looks a hell of a lot better on the older TV's.

I wish sometimes I kept my PS2 but I sold it on craigslist for good money a year ago. I had the original first release PS2 and it had no problems. I think I actually bought it when it was the full price when it had been release 10 years ago. But I got a solid 9 years of play out of it. It was well worth the investment. I remember even lugging it around when I traveled and played with co-workers and friends I met during business trips.

I think the only thing I had wished the PS2 had 1st party wireless controllers. I hated dragging the PS2 half way into my living room so I could sit in a chair or couch and play relaxed.
 
Here are some of my picks:

Devil May Cry Trilogy
Disgaea Hour of Darkness
Jak II
We Love Katamari
Mega Man X Collection
Metal Gear Solid Trilogy
Onimusha 3
Ratchet and Clank Trilogy
SMT Nocturne
Persona 3 FES
Silent Hill 2
Street Fighter Alpha Anthology
Tales of the Abyss
Valkyrie Profile 2
Zone of the Enders The 2nd Runner
 
Anyone who is looking to get a PS2, remember that GameStop is gonna have some decent stuff on sale during its Game Days sale. The DMC Trilogy, MGS Essentials, and Persona 3 FES are included.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']Anyone who is looking to get a PS2, remember that GameStop is gonna have some decent stuff on sale during its Game Days sale. The DMC Trilogy, MGS Essentials, and Persona 3 FES are included.[/quote]At what prices though?
 
Sale doesn't start until April 5th, and no GS employee has supplied us with the info, yet. Game Days items are on sale for "up to" 50%, and there is also a 10% coupon that can be used on all items purchased from the sale.
 
[quote name='unclenebber']Sony's game division finally turns a profit -- sells 4.9M PS3s in Q3

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/31/sonys-game-division-turns-a-profit/

Q3 earnings are not relevant, if your gaming company cannot turn a Q3 profit, you are Sega.

On topic, the ps2 is one of the greatest consoles ever, with literally hundreds of good games, and I can't wait until they put BC back into the ps3 so that I can buy one!!![/quote]
Or MS with the xbox, Q3 isn't just about holiday sales when you're so far in the red for various other reasons (MS w xbox, Sony w PS3).

[quote name='Doomed']What would you recommend for a new PS2 owner who also owns a XBOX and GameCube? To my knowledge, most multiplatform PS2 games are better on other consoles because of how weak the PS2 is.
.[/quote]
There are actually a lot of games better on PS2 than the other platforms only because they were designed with PS2 as the lead platform and lazily ported to the other consoles or ported with no optimization, etc.

[quote name='Ronin317']I have to look for the article, but I'm pretty sure Sony's Playstation division was the biggest down for the entire company, and the strong sales of LCDs kinda made up for it.[/quote]
I would agree with this statement for any year 2006-2007, but not 2008 nor 2009. But I could be wrong. I would like to see either way.
 
[quote name='Doomed']What would you recommend for a new PS2 owner who also owns a XBOX and GameCube?[/QUOTE]

I'll just list some of the less mainstream games,

Contra SS
Disaster Report
God Hand
Gradius 5
Mr Mosquito
Raw Danger
Persona 3 & 4
Space Channel 5
Warriors Orochi 2
Wild Arms 5
 
My top PS2 list for exclusives would be:

God of War 1+2
Final Fantasy X
Metal Gear Solid 3
Tekken Tag Tournament

Tons of other great games but those are the ones I remember most fondly playing on my PS2.
 
[quote name='irishsoccermbw']Price already dropped on gamestop.com sadly used prices have stayed the same :([/QUOTE]

Also dropped at Amazon. No tax (for most) and free shipping of course. But damn, who doesnt have a PS2 by now if they wanted it?
 
For all the naysayers here is the proof, in line with what I predicted:

I threw out hypothetical figures of
(100,000x129.99=$12,999,000
150,000x99.99=$14,998,500)

PS2 sold 112,000 in March (5 weeks), but in April (4 weeks) it sold 172,000. The pricedrop was/is worth it. It's good business, not stupidity on Sony's part.
 
At 99 I'll buy a spare sometime in the next year. I wish the Japanese ones would drop. They're almost twice as much before shipping at everyplace I've looked.
 
[quote name='Monsta Mack']Thanks for bumping the old thread.

Oh crap...[/QUOTE]
I had said I would post the NPD data when the time came... and NPD issued their report today.
 
[quote name='unclenebber']You think a 23% price drop on the ps2 will increase sales 50%?
Not in a hundred billion googleplex years.

Unless there's some incentive.[/QUOTE]

Let's see ((172K - 112K)/112K) * 100% ~ 53.6%

And here I was thinking that a "hundred billion goggleplex years" was actually a long time. Time flies when you're having fun I guess. :lol:
 
[quote name='J7.']For all the naysayers here is the proof, in line with what I predicted:

I threw out hypothetical figures of
(100,000x129.99=$12,999,000
150,000x99.99=$14,998,500)

PS2 sold 112,000 in March (5 weeks), but in April (4 weeks) it sold 172,000. The pricedrop was/is worth it. It's good business, not stupidity on Sony's part.[/QUOTE]

I'm not picking a fight, but just looking at gross dollars isn't that helpful.

I don't know what Sony's costs are for building/distributing/retailers cut on the PS2 is but I'd hazard it somewhere around $70-80 per unit, so lets say its $75. At $130 MSRP, that means Sony would be getting 'gross profit' (not covering overall marketing costs, other corp overhead, and Sir Howards plane tickets back to the UK each month) of $55 on each unit. at $100 MSRP, that 'gross profit' is only $25

112,000*$55=$6,160,600
172,000*$25=$4,300,000

Even if you work at the PS2's net cost being at $60, the numbers still don't look all that great either.

112,000*$70=$7,840,000
172,000*$40=$6,880,000

Even if you work at the PS2's net cost being at $90, the numbers still don't look all that great.

112,000*$70=$4,480,000
172,000*$10=$1,720,000

Now if new PS2 users enter the market at the new hardware price point, and they buy new games, Sony makes additional revenue through games sales (which can grow their overall profit faster than at the previous higher PS2 hardware price point). However, if these new users just buy a bunch of used games at Gamestop or are current customers who have just replaced older hardware without buying additional new games, then some of these new purchases are not all that helpful towards Sony's overall bottom line. Given the smaller level of shelf space/just a handful of new PS2 releases in the future, I think this is likely much better news for Gamestop than Sony.

But that said, this is only one month of data and it is quite possible that sales could grow at a faster rate as time progresses, but it is clearly not the slam dunk you think it is.

If you cut your margins in half, you need to DOUBLE sales vol. to just EQUAL the net profits at the old price
 
^Perhaps Sony was looking at sales volume trends from month to month and noticed that it would be more profitable to drop the price to $100 in May then it would to keep the price at $130?
 
Someone forgot to tell RadioShack about the price drop. Just saw it yesterday at $125 - on clearance.

I thought maybe it was a bundle, but nope, just the console.
 
[quote name='K_G']I'm not picking a fight, but just looking at gross dollars isn't that helpful.

I don't know what Sony's costs are for building/distributing/retailers cut on the PS2 is but I'd hazard it somewhere around $70-80 per unit, so lets say its $75. At $130 MSRP, that means Sony would be getting 'gross profit' (not covering overall marketing costs, other corp overhead, and Sir Howards plane tickets back to the UK each month) of $55 on each unit. at $100 MSRP, that 'gross profit' is only $25

112,000*$55=$6,160,600
172,000*$25=$4,300,000

Even if you work at the PS2's net cost being at $60, the numbers still don't look all that great either.

112,000*$70=$7,840,000
172,000*$40=$6,880,000

Even if you work at the PS2's net cost being at $90, the numbers still don't look all that great.

112,000*$70=$4,480,000
172,000*$10=$1,720,000

Now if new PS2 users enter the market at the new hardware price point, and they buy new games, Sony makes additional revenue through games sales (which can grow their overall profit faster than at the previous higher PS2 hardware price point). However, if these new users just buy a bunch of used games at Gamestop or are current customers who have just replaced older hardware without buying additional new games, then some of these new purchases are not all that helpful towards Sony's overall bottom line. Given the smaller level of shelf space/just a handful of new PS2 releases in the future, I think this is likely much better news for Gamestop than Sony.

But that said, this is only one month of data and it is quite possible that sales could grow at a faster rate as time progresses, but it is clearly not the slam dunk you think it is.

If you cut your margins in half, you need to DOUBLE sales vol. to just EQUAL the net profits at the old price[/QUOTE]
You're right about having others $ take in. However, you're not taking into account how much lower sales may have fallen (not to mention the 172,000 was in 4 months to 112,000 in 5 months). Yes, there was Easter, but that seemed to have no effect on any other consoles.

You're also not taking into account whether Sony could have lowered the amount that others get off each system. I would not be surprised if they could do this since others would make it back because more systems are being sold. They also may have made some further reductions to production costs too. I didn't say it was a slam dunk, I've said it was a good idea. Say they did not do the cut and this month went down to
90,000.

112,000*$55=$6,160,600
90,000*$55=$4,950,000
172,000*$25=$4,300,000

Then add in the amount of software sales made at 172,000 compared to 90,000. Say each of those groups bought 5 games on avg eventually where Sony made $15 on average from each game (this takes into account some not buying any, some buying more, less, etc).

$4,950,000+(90,000*$75=6,750,000)= 11,700,000
$4,300,000+(172,000*$75=12,900,000)= 17,200,000

And what if net cost was $50? You would have an even smaller difference between each sales comparison before taking into account software sales.

90,000*$80=7,200,000
112,000*$80=8,960,000
172,000*$50=8,600,000
Then factor in software.

Also, factor in getting more people buying and becoming familiar with the Playstation brand who may then decide to buy a PSP or PS3 in the future, who avoided their competitors system's when buying PS2 and avoiding competitors in the future.
 
[quote name='J7.']
Then add in the amount of software sales made at 172,000 compared to 90,000. Say each of those groups bought 5 games on avg eventually where Sony made $15 on average from each game (this takes into account some not buying any, some buying more, less, etc).

$4,950,000+(90,000*$75=6,750,000)= 11,700,000
$4,300,000+(172,000*$75=12,900,000)= 17,200,000[/QUOTE]

That is an exceedingly generous royalty figure on your part...Ignoring 1st party financial issues, I suspect Sony's ps2 royalty fee is unlikely more than $10 on any full price PS2 game, and a large number of new (in the sense of not being used) games available for the PS2 are Greatest Hits versions, which have much lower royalty fees (likely around $3-4). And the odds are, if people are so hard up for cash that they need a $99 price point to buy a PS2, then they aren't going to be grabbing $50 games (assuming there are any actually on the shelf) but they are more likely to gravitate towards $20 Greatest Hits games. However, you could have mentioned the insane margins on accessories like memory cards and DVD remotes that would clearly be additional incremental income on any additional new user PS2 hardware sales.

And what if net cost was $50? You would have an even smaller difference between each sales comparison before taking into account software sales.
I seriously doubt that Sony was working with ipod levels of 100%+ gross margins on PS2 hardware....and if they were, all the more for them to stick at $130 to get that fat cash upfront on the hardware plus possible game related cash down the road vs getting thin cash on the hardware and having to worry if people will actually buy bunch of NEW games for it down the road.

Also, factor in getting more people buying and becoming familiar with the Playstation brand who may then decide to buy a PSP or PS3 in the future, who avoided their competitors system's when buying PS2 and avoiding competitors in the future.
If consumers need a $99 price point to become attracted to hardware, then the PSP, PS3, and any other competing system are already completely out of their price range. The PS2 was already the lowest price home system at $130 (or matching the DS lite if you consider that direct competition). Also now that Sony has now forgone any PS2 backward compatibility from the PS3, there is no inducement for PS2 users to move up to PS3 vs. any other system. At best, Sony might be depriving short term sales for other lower price competitors to the PS3, since a new-to-video-games family buying a new PS2 is unlikely to turn around and buy a Wii or 360 in the next 12 months or so.

There is alot of back room math involving fixed costs associated with plant operations, chip yields, supply contracts terms, internal royalty rates, ect, ect that could factor in the overall cost structure of the product that we will never know (and it is likely only a few of people at Sony even know all the details). Another factor is ancillary issues like throwing retailers a bone to keep them less upset about the stickiness of the PS3 price point as well as keeping PS2 sales up so they don't drastically cut back on their PS2 shelf space due to declining sales (and then even worse, give that sales space to a competitor) as well as keeping publishers happy by insuring that some new users will keep buying some old PS2 games, given that many greatest hits titles are highly profitable for publishers.

So there are more than a few strong secondary reasons for a price cut. I doubt that Sony looked at this as a profit generating move. The pure profit math isn't all that favorable for a price cut given the declining number of PS2 titles in the pipeline and that new users attracted by the price drop are less likely to consume large numbers of games over time both due to lower overall video game interest levels as well as having fewer and fewer new PS2 titles to choose from.

But for Sony's sake, I hope your assessment proves out to be correct in the long run, because god knows Sony need to grow profits on something they sell.
 
[quote name='K_G']That is an exceedingly generous royalty figure on your part...Ignoring 1st party financial issues, I suspect Sony's ps2 royalty fee is unlikely more than $10 on any full price PS2 game, and a large number of new (in the sense of not being used) games available for the PS2 are Greatest Hits versions, which have much lower royalty fees (likely around $3-4). And the odds are, if people are so hard up for cash that they need a $99 price point to buy a PS2, then they aren't going to be grabbing $50 games (assuming there are any actually on the shelf) but they are more likely to gravitate towards $20 Greatest Hits games. However, you could have mentioned the insane margins on accessories like memory cards and DVD remotes that would clearly be additional incremental income on any additional new user PS2 hardware sales.
Lower the royalty fees and Sony is still clearly better off with the pricecut and more sales.

I seriously doubt that Sony was working with ipod levels of 100%+ gross margins on PS2 hardware....and if they were, all the more for them to stick at $130 to get that fat cash upfront on the hardware plus possible game related cash down the road vs getting thin cash on the hardware and having to worry if people will actually buy bunch of NEW games for it down the road.
Maybe they are, we don't know. I wouldn't be shocked. PS1's price was down to $49.99 less than 7 years after release. It's been 3 years since they price cutted PS2 down to $129.99. You threw out the $60 net cost number, $50 isn't much more of a stretch.

If consumers need a $99 price point to become attracted to hardware, then the PSP, PS3, and any other competing system are already completely out of their price range. The PS2 was already the lowest price home system at $130 (or matching the DS lite if you consider that direct competition). Also now that Sony has now forgone any PS2 backward compatibility from the PS3, there is no inducement for PS2 users to move up to PS3 vs. any other system. At best, Sony might be depriving short term sales for other lower price competitors to the PS3, since a new-to-video-games family buying a new PS2 is unlikely to turn around and buy a Wii or 360 in the next 12 months or so.

You're missing my point. If consumers buy a PS2 now instead of a competitors system, when they do upgrade to another system they may be more likely to stay with the Sony brand. The other Sony systems are out of their price range now, but they won't be buying another system for a long time if they waited this long for PS2. PS2 was not already the lowest price system. There is GC, DSL as you mentioned, and used products and older gen. People buying a PS2 now are the type that are going to be overly concerned with BC in a PS3. A PS2 sale instead of a competitor's system sale is a double win for Sony.

There is alot of back room math involving fixed costs associated with plant operations, chip yields, supply contracts terms, internal royalty rates, ect, ect that could factor in the overall cost structure of the product that we will never know (and it is likely only a few of people at Sony even know all the details). Another factor is ancillary issues like throwing retailers a bone to keep them less upset about the stickiness of the PS3 price point as well as keeping PS2 sales up so they don't drastically cut back on their PS2 shelf space due to declining sales (and then even worse, give that sales space to a competitor) as well as keeping publishers happy by insuring that some new users will keep buying some old PS2 games, given that many greatest hits titles are highly profitable for publishers.

True, but this move has proven to be a win for Sony. Sales were declining badly and who knows how low they may have gone. Sales not only did not stop declining but they went up a decent amount.

So there are more than a few strong secondary reasons for a price cut. I doubt that Sony looked at this as a profit generating move. The pure profit math isn't all that favorable for a price cut given the declining number of PS2 titles in the pipeline and that new users attracted by the price drop are less likely to consume large numbers of games over time both due to lower overall video game interest levels as well as having fewer and fewer new PS2 titles to choose from.

Agreed there are those other reasons. I do think that they did plan it out though (in their overall strategy laid out) so that they would see more profit, even if it was a small amount. Doesn't mean it was the #1 reason or only reason.

But for Sony's sake, I hope your assessment proves out to be correct in the long run, because god knows Sony need to grow profits on something they sell.[/QUOTE]---
 
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